Ellenson vs Timme

[MU82]

Who was the better college player?

Will Timme be a better pro than Hank? I don't think so -- not unless he develops the kind of consistent 3-point shot that NBA types had hoped Ellenson would (and never did) -- but maybe others do.

[tower912]

Timme knows what he is and plays to his strengths.  Henry desperately wanted to be a stretch 4.

[NickelDimer]

Timme was quite a bit better as a college player imo. Neither are impact NBA players.

[wadesworld]

Timme is the better college player.  If Henry would've been around for as long as Timme will be, maybe he would've been close.  But it's not a question as it is.

Henry will be the better pro.

[MU82]

Gimme knows what he is and plays to his strengths.  Henry desperately wanted to be a stretch 4.

If his strengths are to make clever moves in the paint and pass well ... Timme's shot will get rejected constantly by NBA players who are stronger and far more athletic.

The only reason Henry was a first-rounder was because some NBA honchos felt he could develop into a stretch 4. Many players do develop better outside shots in the NBA because they get the best coaching and because they work tirelessly at it. But Hank just couldn't do it well enough.

It is the only way Timme can have a meaningful NBA career, IMHO. I mean, Kaminsky can shoot, and he's still struggling to find a real role in the league. He has cashed some nice paychecks, though, and has landed with a good team. But again, he's shooting .406 from distance for Phoenix.

If Timme shoots like that, he can have an NBA career. If he shoots like Hank ... see ya!

[MU82]

Timme is the better college player.  If Henry would've been around for as long as Timme will be, maybe he would've been close.  But it's not a question as it is.

Henry will be the better pro.

Timme was quite a bit better as a college player imo. Neither are impact NBA players.

Reasonable takes.

wades' last line says all one needs to know about Timme's prospects.

[Nukem2]

Henry has shot over 42% from the 3 point line in both of the past 2 G-League seasons and is 38% career wise in the G League from 3.  Very respectable.  His lack of NBA success is probably more about his defense and other factors.

PS, his career NBA 3 point % is 33.6% on 149 attempts.

[MUfan12]

Henry has shot over 42% from the 3 point line in both of the past 2 G-League seasons and is 38% career wise in the G League from 3.  Very respectable.  His lack of NBA success is probably more about his defense and other factors.

Yup.

He shot 72/100 in the workout with the Bucks. He has pro range, but can't guard a chair.

[MU82]

Henry has shot over 42% from the 3 point line in both of the past 2 G-League seasons and is 38% career wise in the G League from 3.  Very respectable.  His lack of NBA success is probably more about his defense and other factors.

Defense probably is a factor with Henry, sure. But there are quite a few NBA players who aren't good defenders but can get PT because they can shoot lights out. How good on D are Kaminsky, Lou Williams and Duncan Robinson?

If you are a 40% distance shooter, the league usually will find a spot for you.

I saw no evidence that Timme will be able to defend or shoot any better than Hank.

[Silkk the Shaka]

Timme knows what he is and plays to his strengths.  Henry desperately wanted to be a stretch 4.

If Henry had played for Mark Few, he would have been better than Timme at the college level. That wasn't what he was looking for in a college program though, so he was ultimately not a better college player.

[wadesworld]

As bad as Hank is defensively, Timme is that much worse. What Baylor did to him all night on Monday was tough to watch at times. They played an NBA style "get the switch you want" and went to work on Timme over and over and over again.

[MU82]

As bad as Hank is defensively, Timme is that much worse. What Baylor did to him all night on Monday was tough to watch at times. They played an NBA style "get the switch you want" and went to work on Timme over and over and over again.

I thought the exact same. He was embarrassed at least a dozen times. As good as Few is, he did Timme no favors with that defensive strategy.

[MikeDeanesDarkGlasses]

As bad as Hank is defensively, Timme is that much worse. What Baylor did to him all night on Monday was tough to watch at times. They played an NBA style "get the switch you want" and went to work on Timme over and over and over again.

There were probably around 5 easy baskets Baylor had with the blown defense by Gonzaga.  That was one of the worst defensive showings ever in a national championship game.  Gonzaga was clueless and it makes me wonder if Few will ever win a title.  His teams never lock anyone down.  Wisconsin played a better game vs. Baylor and was outmanned at every position.   

[Herman Cain]

If his strengths are to make clever moves in the paint and pass well ... Timme's shot will get rejected constantly by NBA players who are stronger and far more athletic.

The only reason Henry was a first-rounder was because some NBA honchos felt he could develop into a stretch 4. Many players do develop better outside shots in the NBA because they get the best coaching and because they work tirelessly at it. But Hank just couldn't do it well enough.

It is the only way Timme can have a meaningful NBA career, IMHO. I mean, Kaminsky can shoot, and he's still struggling to find a real role in the league. He has cashed some nice paychecks, though, and has landed with a good team. But again, he's shooting .406 from distance for Phoenix.

If Timme shoots like that, he can have an NBA career. If he shoots like Hank ... see ya!

I would like to amplify what you are saying. Henry' s defensive deficiencies have been well chronicled by many coaches and scouts. By the way it is not for lack of effort on Henry's part, he is just not quick enough to deal with the talent level  in the league.  Unfortunately, while Henrys. shooting has improved, it has not improved near enough, to offset the weak defense,  for him to make it in the Association. Henry recently moved from stretch 4 to stretch 5 which has given him a little more confidence. However , he is going to be a lifetime on the margins of the league/best player in G League type guy. As you point out Kaminsky is hanging around because he can shoot it.

Timme is a nice college player on a well constructed team. Baylor demonstrated what will happen to him at the next level.
I do think Timme could play forever in the slower paced structured style of European Basketball. Luke Fischer is over in France with DJO having a solid season in the pivot.

[Viper]

Who was the better college player?

Will Timme be a better pro than Hank? I don't think so -- not unless he develops the kind of consistent 3-point shot that NBA types had hoped Ellenson would (and never did) -- but maybe others do.

I'll take Ellenson. I thought he was superb his freshman year. Imagine if he had a PG like Suggs? As pro's, I don't see Timme in the nba but definitely a solid pro in Euro...which I believe is where Hank is currently.

[brewcity77]

Timme is the better college player by far. His footwork and understanding of his strengths is something that Henry never came close to. On a loaded team, Timme was the kenpom Player of the Year. Ellenson was never close to that. Neither were great shooters, but the difference is Timme knows he isn't a great shooter, whereas Henry jacked up 3+ from long range on a nightly basis.

Ellenson was a slightly better defender, but that's not saying much because neither are defensive forces.

At the next level...I think I lean toward Henry because he has a better raw toolset to work with, but I don't think he's as smart a player as Timme. Timme has a really good understanding of leverage and the how and when of making cuts to the basket. But I'm not sure that his smarts will be enough for the physicality of the NBA. Henry has more of the size and frame for that level, but honestly, I don't think either are long-term NBA players. On-and-off cup of coffee types.

[94Warrior]

Timme = Ethan Happ

Great footwork around the basket, no outside shot to speak of.  His game does not translate to the NBA. 

[brewcity77]

Timme = Ethan Happ

Great footwork around the basket, no outside shot to speak of.  His game does not translate to the NBA.

Yeah, that's probably a good comp.

[Stretchdeltsig]

Ellenson was like a big kid playing street ball. He was too green. Needed a lot more coaching. Greed got to him. He'll probably regret it for the rest of his life after he quits playing D ball.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Ellenson was like a big kid playing street ball. He was too green. Needed a lot more coaching. Greed got to him. He'll probably regret it for the rest of his life after he quits playing D ball.

He'll regret being a millionaire?  Sign me up for some of  those regrets!

[TSmith34, Inc.]

Ellenson was like a big kid playing street ball. He was too green. Needed a lot more coaching. Greed got to him. He'll probably regret it for the rest of his life after he quits playing D ball.

He's earned $5.9M to soothe his regrets.

[Hards Alumni]

Ellenson was like a big kid playing street ball. He was too green. Needed a lot more coaching. Greed got to him. He'll probably regret it for the rest of his life after he quits playing D ball.

hilarious.

[MU82]

Timme = Ethan Happ

Great footwork around the basket, no outside shot to speak of.  His game does not translate to the NBA.

Well, I could see an NBA GM look at Timme's form and think that maybe, with coaching and hard work, he could occasionally hit 3s. On a limited sample size, he shot about 30% at Gonzaga. Happ couldn't even make a FT, and he hit 1 of the 16 treys he attempted ... and I was surprised he attempted 16. I also think Timme is "niftier" than Happ around the basket, with a smoother set of offensive moves. But yes, I definitely see the comparison, and neither is an NBA player IMHO.

Timme is the better college player by far. His footwork and understanding of his strengths is something that Henry never came close to. On a loaded team, Timme was the kenpom Player of the Year. Ellenson was never close to that. Neither were great shooters, but the difference is Timme knows he isn't a great shooter, whereas Henry jacked up 3+ from long range on a nightly basis.

Ellenson was a slightly better defender, but that's not saying much because neither are defensive forces.

At the next level...I think I lean toward Henry because he has a better raw toolset to work with, but I don't think he's as smart a player as Timme. Timme has a really good understanding of leverage and the how and when of making cuts to the basket. But I'm not sure that his smarts will be enough for the physicality of the NBA. Henry has more of the size and frame for that level, but honestly, I don't think either are long-term NBA players. On-and-off cup of coffee types.

Good assessment, brew. Raw-talent-wise, I think Henry's better, and he has a better pro body too. Wojo got Ellenson by 1. taking Wally and 2. telling Henry he could do whatever he wanted in his one season at Marquette. And Hank took advantage of that absolute green light.

[Jay Bee]

Remember when idiots claimed Happ was going to all of sudden be a nice 3 point shooting guy? Hilarious

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/all-american-ethan-happ-has-never-taken-a-3-for-wisconsin-but-thats-about-to-change/amp/

[BallBoy]

NBA scouts fell in love with the 6'10 stretch four sharpshooter. They were a mismatch nightmare so they were all looking for one.  This has drove people to project players like Henry and Joey has NBA level talent.

I think what they have found is if those players aren't overly athletic that mismatch is lost and they are a liability. A 6'8 athletic shooter with bulk like a Karl Malone or James are the current target because they can guard the Henry but are a mismatch in speed.

Once a player like Joey is shown to play in cement shoes they go from a one and done to a four year college player. Timme will be in that mold.