Whats the case for Dennis Gates?

[1SE]

Being talked about in a lot of threads, some folks saying he's their #1. But I dont get that? He seems miles behind Shaka/Moser/Smith and indistinguishable from.any number of.mid-major.coaches who.have made it to the tourney (let alone won there).

What's the draw?

[brewcity77]

Between FSU & CSU, there's a lot of good press out there. He has the bearing of a future star.

Stylistically, the length and athleticism of guys he recruited at FSU is attractive, as is the pressure they can apply defensively and I'm sure the idea of that being emulated here is exciting. He's recruited the high major level and as a black Midwesterner, will likely be able to connect quickly with the roster we have.

His turnaround at CSU is really impressive. I don't think enough is made of him getting that job July 26, 2019. What that means is he didn't have summer practices. The recruiting cycle is virtually over, so you can't cobble together a roster that late in the process. Despite that, he still led CSU to their most conference wins in 5 years and won Horizon Coach of the Year. Then with a full season, even in a pandemic, he led a 140+ spot improvement per kenpom, tied for first in his league, and won the NCAA bid. That's about as close to Chris Beard at Little Rock as we've seen in recent memory.

I also think age plays in. Part of why Jay Wright is so successful is after 10 relatively successful years at Villanova, he saw what wasn't working & made changes. If that happens to a Gates in his first high major gig, he's still got 15-20 years left in his career, as Wright did. If that happens to someone like Moser in their first high-major gig, they're on the verge of retirement.

I also think there's a belief that it will likely be easier to get things going at this level if you play an exciting brand of basketball. There is a narrative around Moser that he plays a slower, more old fashioned style. It can work, but until you have some proof of concept at the high major level, recruiting at the highest levels will likely be harder. Look at Bo, he spent years getting the occasional big name like Brian Butch, but mostly relied on turning lower four and three stars like Alando Tucker, Keaton Nankivil, Jon Leuer, and Jordan Taylor into stars.

I'm a fan of Gates. He's not first choice, but he'd be my strong second.

[dgies9156]

Simply put, the belief is the guy brings the coaching and recruiting ability for the Big East. Moser is someone we'd be proud of but he has never recruited at a level necessary to be consistently successful in the Big East.

[1SE]

Thanks - those are useful summaries!

[Dr. Blackheart]

Simply put, the belief is the guy brings the coaching and recruiting ability for the Big East. Moser is someone we'd be proud of but he has never recruited at a level necessary to be consistently successful in the Big East.

So we are down to Shaka and Beilein for you then as Gates, Moser and Smith have not recruited at your Big East consistency level kpi (yet they all have consistently recruited recently to consistently compete in their leagues)?

Shaka has been Wojo at Texas with his coaching performance and Beilein washed out at his last job and as some baggage over his head with today's players with his Cleveland fiasco.  Who are we left with? Jaime Dixon? Rick Pitino? John Thompson III? Tom Crean? Not likely.

Look, at some point Scholl is going to have to lean into his candidate, the one who he thinks can best make the jump with more resources. 

[Hards Alumni]

So we are down to Shaka and Beilein for you then as Gates, Moser and Smith have not recruited at your Big East consistency level kpi (yet they all have consistently recruited recently to consistently compete in their leagues)?

Shaka has been Wojo at Texas with his coaching performance and Beilein washed out at his last job and as some baggage over his head with today's players with his Cleveland fiasco.  Who are we left with? Jaime Dixon? Rick Pitino? John Thompson III? Tom Crean? Not likely.

Look, at some point Scholl is going to have to lean into his candidate, the one who he thinks can best make the jump with more resources.

Hogwash.  Texas just won the Big12 this year.  Steve won zero.

[Warrior_2002]

Might just be a little soon for Gates but taking the risk on him early could have some great returns.  I myself keep waffling between Moser and Shaka. 

There really isn't a comparison of Shaka to Wojo.  I get the no tourney wins stat but Shaka, from what I've been reading on scoop and other places, has had way more success as a HC.  I also like his ability to recruit and the likelihood of our core remaining here (Lewis, Garcia, Carton). Starting to think he won't be let go by Texas anyway.  Anyone have more on this?

Moser is sort of the hot commodity and I like him a lot and I don't mind the slow defensive style.  Very successful the last few years but with ups and downs (some major downs) over his career.  My hope is he can do better and be more consistent at a P6.  So I think he's my #1 but I tend to change daily.  In the end I'll give anyone a chance and glad we made the move to oust Wojo.

[muwarrior69]

Between FSU & CSU, there's a lot of good press out there. He has the bearing of a future star.

Stylistically, the length and athleticism of guys he recruited at FSU is attractive, as is the pressure they can apply defensively and I'm sure the idea of that being emulated here is exciting. He's recruited the high major level and as a black Midwesterner, will likely be able to connect quickly with the roster we have.

His turnaround at CSU is really impressive. I don't think enough is made of him getting that job July 26, 2019. What that means is he didn't have summer practices. The recruiting cycle is virtually over, so you can't cobble together a roster that late in the process. Despite that, he still led CSU to their most conference wins in 5 years and won Horizon Coach of the Year. Then with a full season, even in a pandemic, he led a 140+ spot improvement per kenpom, tied for first in his league, and won the NCAA bid. That's about as close to Chris Beard at Little Rock as we've seen in recent memory.

I also think age plays in. Part of why Jay Wright is so successful is after 10 relatively successful years at Villanova, he saw what wasn't working & made changes. If that happens to a Gates in his first high major gig, he's still got 15-20 years left in his career, as Wright did. If that happens to someone like Moser in their first high-major gig, they're on the verge of retirement.

I also think there's a belief that it will likely be easier to get things going at this level if you play an exciting brand of basketball. There is a narrative around Moser that he plays a slower, more old fashioned style. It can work, but until you have some proof of concept at the high major level, recruiting at the highest levels will likely be harder. Look at Bo, he spent years getting the occasional big name like Brian Butch, but mostly relied on turning lower four and three stars like Alando Tucker, Keaton Nankivil, Jon Leuer, and Jordan Taylor into stars.

I'm a fan of Gates. He's not first choice, but he'd be my strong second.

I have no problem with Gates and would support him as our next coach, but are you saying our players won't connect to a white midwestern coach? You are the one bringing up race here, but you know I'm triggered.

[MU82]

Being talked about in a lot of threads, some folks saying he's their #1. But I dont get that? He seems miles behind Shaka/Moser/Smith and indistinguishable from.any number of.mid-major.coaches who.have made it to the tourney (let alone won there).

What's the draw?

About 2 years ago, Chris Beard had burst onto the national scene by taking Texas Tech to the national title game. Meanwhile, after yet another first-round flameout, followed by Hausershima, some Scoopers were saying it was time to fire Wojo.

More than a few said Beard as the kind of coach we should hire.

But it was pointed out that if our job was open, most Scoopers would have had a gag reflex toward a coach with Beard's resume at the time Texas Tech hired him: 10 years as a "career assistant" at Texas Tech; 1 season at D3 McMurry; 2 seasons at D2 Angelo State; 1 season at Arkansas-Little Rock.

Well, what if Dennis Gates is this year's Beard? Relatively little D1 experience but success at that post, and a long stint as a top assistant for one of the best coaches in college basketball, recruiting the very kind of Buzz-type athletes many Scoopers long for.

That's the case for Dennis Gates.

[Mr. Nielsen]

Not that I believe I pointed it out here, so many different forums or who I speak with. I get lost in where something might have been said. Brew did point it out. Year 1, is the focus for me. Dennis Felton, who was also the coach at Georgia was let go in July. July! Eight plus players left before Felton was let go. One player who is a main player at Florida. Gates in year one goes 7-11 in league play. Most wins in five years in league play for CSU. Most thought that would have been 1-17 season for CSU.

FWIW, Gates in my #1 pick.

[Babybluejeans]

Between FSU & CSU, there's a lot of good press out there. He has the bearing of a future star.

Stylistically, the length and athleticism of guys he recruited at FSU is attractive, as is the pressure they can apply defensively and I'm sure the idea of that being emulated here is exciting. He's recruited the high major level and as a black Midwesterner, will likely be able to connect quickly with the roster we have.

His turnaround at CSU is really impressive. I don't think enough is made of him getting that job July 26, 2019. What that means is he didn't have summer practices. The recruiting cycle is virtually over, so you can't cobble together a roster that late in the process. Despite that, he still led CSU to their most conference wins in 5 years and won Horizon Coach of the Year. Then with a full season, even in a pandemic, he led a 140+ spot improvement per kenpom, tied for first in his league, and won the NCAA bid. That's about as close to Chris Beard at Little Rock as we've seen in recent memory.

I also think age plays in. Part of why Jay Wright is so successful is after 10 relatively successful years at Villanova, he saw what wasn't working & made changes. If that happens to a Gates in his first high major gig, he's still got 15-20 years left in his career, as Wright did. If that happens to someone like Moser in their first high-major gig, they're on the verge of retirement.

I also think there's a belief that it will likely be easier to get things going at this level if you play an exciting brand of basketball. There is a narrative around Moser that he plays a slower, more old fashioned style. It can work, but until you have some proof of concept at the high major level, recruiting at the highest levels will likely be harder. Look at Bo, he spent years getting the occasional big name like Brian Butch, but mostly relied on turning lower four and three stars like Alando Tucker, Keaton Nankivil, Jon Leuer, and Jordan Taylor into stars.

I'm a fan of Gates. He's not first choice, but he'd be my strong second.

You just convinced me of Gates over Moser. I'd love to have the qualities in Gates you mentioned — sounds like he fits the MU bball style perfectly.

[brewcity77]

I have no problem with Gates and would support him as our next coach, but are you saying our players won't connect to a white midwestern coach? You are the one bringing up race here, but you know I'm triggered.

Not as well. Don't see why that would be triggering.

[MU82]

I have no problem with Gates and would support him as our next coach, but are you saying our players won't connect to a white midwestern coach? You are the one bringing up race here, but you know I'm triggered.

You are SO easily triggered when race is the subject.

You have a glaring need to defend the white race against all perceived injustices ... and I don't blame you. White males haven't been able to get a break in America for 400 years now. I mean, look around pro and college sports -- ALL of the head coaches are Black! So unfair!!!

[dgies9156]

So we are down to Shaka and Beilein for you then as Gates, Moser and Smith have not recruited at your Big East consistency level kpi (yet they all have consistently recruited recently to consistently compete in their leagues)?

Shaka has been Wojo at Texas with his coaching performance and Beilein washed out at his last job and as some baggage over his head with today's players with his Cleveland fiasco.  Who are we left with? Jaime Dixon? Rick Pitino? John Thompson III? Tom Crean? Not likely.

Look, at some point Scholl is going to have to lean into his candidate, the one who he thinks can best make the jump with more resources.

Brother Blackheart:

I'll be happy with whomever Marquette hires. While I have my opinion, it isn't my name on the contract.

At day's end, I'm sure whomever they hire will have been vetted and reviewed. Whoever, I want someone who will cause us to be a competitor for the Big East championship, a consistent Top 10ish team and a regular in the NCAA. My expectation is that we will again be an NCAA Champion in the nit-too-distant future.

[muwarrior69]

You are SO easily triggered when race is the subject.

You have a glaring need to defend the white race against all perceived injustices ... and I don't blame you. White males haven't been able to get a break in America for 400 years now. I mean, look around pro and college sports -- ALL of the head coaches are Black! So unfair!!!

Brew brought it up and said the players would not connect as well to a white coach? Why is that? I'm not allowed to ask the question? Our current players by all accounts connected to Wojo? I just don't understand why skin color should be a point of discussion when it comes to selecting our new Coach. Just hire the best qualified candidate. Gates would make fine coach.

[Hards Alumni]

Brew brought it up and said the players would not connect as well to a white coach? Why is that? I'm not allowed to ask the question? Our current players by all accounts connected to Wojo? I just don't understand why skin color should be a point of discussion when it comes to selecting our new Coach. Just hire the best qualified candidate. Gates would make fine coach.

You're allowed to ask the question, but you are clearly hyper-focused on these sorts of things, and it's strange to anyone who reads your posts.

The question is, why?

[brewcity77]

Brew brought it up and said the players would not connect as well to a white coach? Why is that? I'm not allowed to ask the question? Our current players by all accounts connected to Wojo? I just don't understand why skin color should be a point of discussion when it comes to selecting our new Coach. Just hire the best qualified candidate. Gates would make fine coach.

Because it's reality. As a middle-aged white guy, it's easier for me to relate to people with a similar background to my own. That's the case for everyone. It doesn't mean those gaps can't be bridged, but it takes more work to understand someone who doesn't share your age, gender, or background.

That doesn't mean the right person couldn't make those connections regardless of background, but the more common ground you start with the easier it is to expand the common ground you will ultimately share.

[MU82]

Brew brought it up and said the players would not connect as well to a white coach? Why is that? I'm not allowed to ask the question? Our current players by all accounts connected to Wojo? I just don't understand why skin color should be a point of discussion when it comes to selecting our new Coach. Just hire the best qualified candidate. Gates would make fine coach.

Brew said: He's recruited the high major level and as a black Midwesterner, will likely be able to connect quickly with the roster we have.

Only somebody hyper-sensitive about whitey's place in the world would interpret that as "Brew brought it up and said the players would not connect as well to a white coach."

That's not just misrepresenting what brew said, it's a flat-out lie. When you have to lie to make a point, your point sucks.

[Silkk the Shaka]

Gates has some proof of concept at a lower level, he's from Chicago, has MU ties, and his recruiting + style of play gives him virtually unlimited potential if he's here a decade+. He seems like the kind of guy where the longer his tenure the program starts to build on itself. His background is super impressive even from a young age (ex. graduated from Cal in 3 years before stuff like that was common). He'd have tremendous respect in the MU community and from videos I've watched it's easy to see why he connects so well with recruits. I'd be thrilled if he were our next HC.

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

Another thing about Gates that I don't think gets talked about enough is his academic success.

He graduated from Cal in 3 years and was a two time 1st team Pac 10 All Academic selection.

Gates must be extremely intelligent to reach those heights.  Combined with his recruiting track record and quick coaching success at CSU, I see a boatload of potential.

[RJax55]

Gates is my top choice as well.

He fits the profile of coaches that have had success at MU. And, unlike Wojo, he has a bevy of experiences at different programs. Very different programs. I like that he's worked at schools ranging from a Northern Illinois (difficult place to win) to power conference programs like Cal and FSU.

If Gates were still an assistant at FSU, I think he would be in the mix for this job. So, the work he's doing at Cleveland State just ups it. It shows some serious coaching ability.

Of course, you never know with any hire, but Gates definitely has the feel of a coach on the rise. I'm not against Moser, but MU would definitely be buying high on him.

[Tums Festival]

Brew brought it up and said the players would not connect as well to a white coach? Why is that? I'm not allowed to ask the question? Our current players by all accounts connected to Wojo? I just don't understand why skin color should be a point of discussion when it comes to selecting our new Coach. Just hire the best qualified candidate. Gates would make fine coach.

Every time the fact that Dennis Gates is Black gets mentioned, you immediately follow up with your, "just hire the best candidate" line. Funny how you never bring that up when Moser, Smith, or any other white coach's name comes up in the discussion.

Dennis Gates was a two-time All-Academic in the Pac-10 when he played at Cal. He's more than qualified.

[NYWarrior]

Gates sitting on the FSU gig?

[Hards Alumni]

Gates sitting on the FSU gig?

One has to wonder if he acknowledged that in his interview.

[The Sultan]

Is the FSU gig really a destination job?  It seems like it's a fine job and he can build his legacy elsewhere.