MU coaching candidates

[fjm]

So we should be rooting against Texas if we want Shaka yes?

[MU82]

So we should be rooting against Texas if we want Shaka yes?

Do we want Shaka if he loses to Abilene Christian, giving him as many NCAA wins in 6 years at Texas as Wojo had in 7 years at Marquette?

He ain't gonna lose, though.

[HouWarrior]

In the past on this board ...I have noticed his name mentioned only after searches and replacement hires at MU were already made...he was only brought up in the buyer's remorse threads.

My best friend's cousin, ...Milwaukee kid Bruce Weber (Milw Marshall HS '75 UWM 78)( lifetime HC Div 1 record 483-285) former head coach at Illinois/ currently K State... is another Big 12 coach who may listen to MU. Natl coach of the year 2005, with NCAA Final 4 Elite 8, and Sweet 16s...Won Big 12 conf three years ago, but since, fell to two straight last place finishes in Big 12 (11-21), (9-20) . 2 years left under KSU contract...the school and he may want to move on. Ie timing may be right to place the call now

I have no opinion on his candidacy...just would like to see it considered before we hire another and, ... once again mention him only in our typical buyers remorse thread. 

[fjm]

Do we want Shaka if he loses to Abilene Christian, giving him as many NCAA wins in 6 years at Texas as Wojo had in 7 years at Marquette?

He ain't gonna lose, though.

Touché. We probably don’t.

[JWags85]

Yeah, but Loyola didn't lose.

I'm not pushing Moser at all, I think there are other guys I'd hire ahead of him, but there are logical fallacies to those kinds of arguments.

If Vander and Jamil didn't save Buzz against Davidson, Buzz wouldn't be remembered so fondly by so many MU fans. If Diener didn't save Wade's bacon vs Holy Cross, D-Wade wouldn't be quite so revered. There are a zillion of these "ifs" throughout sports history.

Yes, Loyola had a lot of good fortune, but they took advantage of it, they made much of their own good luck, they still had to win the games, and Moser deserves a lot of credit - just as he'd deserve a lot of blame if they didn't win.

Wade was an AA and top 10 pick regardless of the FF. He was always going to be beloved.

BUTTTTT....if Crean doesn’t make that FF, does he get the IU gig? No chance IMO

[MU82]

Wade was an AA and top 10 pick regardless of the FF. He was always going to be beloved.

BUTTTTT....if Crean doesn’t make that FF, does he get the IU gig? No chance IMO

You are correct about Crean, obviously.

As for D-Wade, I said "revered," not beloved. Had he lost twice in the first round to 12 and 14 seeds, with the second loss coming because he played poorly, would he have been revered anywhere near the level he is today? I have trouble believing that, Wags.

[GooooMarquette]

Do we want Shaka if he loses to Abilene Christian, giving him as many NCAA wins in 6 years at Texas as Wojo had in 7 years at Marquette?

He ain't gonna lose, though.

Yeah. If he lost tonight, it would be a pretty tough sell after firing Wojo for poor performance. Heck, even if he wins a game or two, it would be debatable.

[CountryRoads]

In the past on this board ...I have noticed his name mentioned only after searches and replacement hires at MU were already made...he was only brought up in the buyer's remorse threads.

My best friend's cousin, ...Milwaukee kid Bruce Weber (Milw Marshall HS '75 UWM 78)( lifetime HC Div 1 record 483-285) former head coach at Illinois/ currently K State... is another Big 12 coach who may listen to MU. Natl coach of the year 2005, with NCAA Final 4 Elite 8, and Sweet 16s...Won Big 12 conf three years ago, but since, fell to two straight last place finishes in Big 12 (11-21), (9-20) . 2 years left under KSU contract...the school and he may want to move on. Ie timing may be right to place the call now

I have no opinion on his candidacy...just would like to see it considered before we hire another and, ... once again mention him only in our typical buyers remorse thread.

Ban this troll lol. Maybe hire as DOB

[JWags85]

In the past on this board ...I have noticed his name mentioned only after searches and replacement hires at MU were already made...he was only brought up in the buyer's remorse threads.

My best friend's cousin, ...Milwaukee kid Bruce Weber (Milw Marshall HS '75 UWM 78)( lifetime HC Div 1 record 483-285) former head coach at Illinois/ currently K State... is another Big 12 coach who may listen to MU. Natl coach of the year 2005, with NCAA Final 4 Elite 8, and Sweet 16s...Won Big 12 conf three years ago, but since, fell to two straight last place finishes in Big 12 (11-21), (9-20) . 2 years left under KSU contract...the school and he may want to move on. Ie timing may be right to place the call now

I have no opinion on his candidacy...just would like to see it considered before we hire another and, ... once again mention him only in our typical buyers remorse thread.

With all due respect to your best friend, that would be pretty much the worst hire I could imagine. That would make Wardle look like grabbing Dennis Gates.

He got his accolades with Self’s players at U of I and has been on a steady decline since. Lucked into a second weekend when UVA lost to UMBC. Tied for first in a weak Big12 before getting upset in the B12 tourney and again in the first round.  Other than that it’s been a decade of mediocrity in Manhattan

[forgetful]

In the past on this board ...I have noticed his name mentioned only after searches and replacement hires at MU were already made...he was only brought up in the buyer's remorse threads.

My best friend's cousin, ...Milwaukee kid Bruce Weber (Milw Marshall HS '75 UWM 78)( lifetime HC Div 1 record 483-285) former head coach at Illinois/ currently K State... is another Big 12 coach who may listen to MU. Natl coach of the year 2005, with NCAA Final 4 Elite 8, and Sweet 16s...Won Big 12 conf three years ago, but since, fell to two straight last place finishes in Big 12 (11-21), (9-20) . 2 years left under KSU contract...the school and he may want to move on. Ie timing may be right to place the call now

I have no opinion on his candidacy...just would like to see it considered before we hire another and, ... once again mention him only in our typical buyers remorse thread. 

At that point, I'd much rather have Crean. Weber is now 64, that alone I think kind of puts him on the back burner of candidates.

[shoothoops]

For discussion’s sake, if Loyola falls to Tennessee in the second round in 2018, is Moser in the discussion for the Marquette job or St John’s a few years back? I’d argue no. Which is why I think there is such emphasis on it. Right or wrong, NCAA performance and dip runs have flipped the switch on many careers

Does Tom Crean get the IU position if MUBB loses to Holy Cross in the first round in 2003 NCAA Tourney? Does Buzz get the Virgina Tech position if MUBB loses to Davidson?

The goal is always to hire a coach that has had strong success in as many ways as possible, as an assistant coach, regular season head coach, NCAA Tourney results, as many as possible. It's much tougher of course to get he NCAA Tourney results if one is not already a Power 5/Big East Coach already.

I have always been intrigued by what Mark Few was able to do. Great coach, program, a gold standard for a couple of decades. It would be great for them to get that NCAA Title this year. Let's take a look.

Few's first couple of seasons at Gonzaga, his teams were double digit seeds, but they made two Sweet 16's. They achieved that underdog result twice.

As Few's program improved and as their seeds were better, they didn't make the 2nd weekend for a while, but their strong, improved, regular seasons, balanced that out.

Then 5 years later they make another Sweet 16. Their two wins? Against a 14 and 16 seed.

Fast forward some early exits, and they make another Sweet 16. Their two wins? V
vs 13 and 12 seeds.

After some early exits, fast forward 6 seasons and an Elite 8. Their wins were against a 15, 7, 11.

Then they make the Sweet 16 as a double digit underdog seed again.

They would get what was needed, maybe regular season here or post season there, get fortunate NCAA opponents here or be the underdog winner there.

In 13 straight seasons, they made the 2nd weekend twice in one stretch, spaced out a bit in that stretch. Both times they only faced double digit seeds, for a total of four wins. When they needed a break in who they played, they got that too.

Then more recently, they had the deep NCAA Runner Up as a 1 seed, followed by Sweet 16 amd Elite 8 as a National Power.

[Warrior2008]

In the past on this board ...I have noticed his name mentioned only after searches and replacement hires at MU were already made...he was only brought up in the buyer's remorse threads.

My best friend's cousin, ...Milwaukee kid Bruce Weber (Milw Marshall HS '75 UWM 78)( lifetime HC Div 1 record 483-285) former head coach at Illinois/ currently K State... is another Big 12 coach who may listen to MU. Natl coach of the year 2005, with NCAA Final 4 Elite 8, and Sweet 16s...Won Big 12 conf three years ago, but since, fell to two straight last place finishes in Big 12 (11-21), (9-20) . 2 years left under KSU contract...the school and he may want to move on. Ie timing may be right to place the call now

I have no opinion on his candidacy...just would like to see it considered before we hire another and, ... once again mention him only in our typical buyers remorse thread.

Marquette did not just spend $9 million dollars buying out Wojo to hire Bruce Weber. The same goes for anyone talking about Brian Wardle.

[MU82]

Marquette did not just spend $9 million dollars buying out Wojo to hire Bruce Weber. The same goes for anyone talking about Brian Wardle.

Thank you.

Bruce Weber is a really, really nice guy. One of the nicest in all of college basketball. And he's pretty well-regarded as a game coach. But he has trouble recruiting, and he's a "meh" motivator. He's had a very nice career and made a bunch of money. I wish him well ... but not at Marquette (unless he wants to be an assistant for us).

[JWags85]

Does Tom Crean get the IU position if MUBB loses to Holy Cross in the first round in 2003 NCAA Tourney? Does Buzz get the Virgina Tech position if MUBB loses to Davidson?

I already mentioned above, Im certain Crean doesn’t get IU without the FF.

Buzz is a bad comparison. He’d made back to back S16s and won the Big East that year.  He was a hot name every offseason before the E8.

Moser has had a career with accomplishments but without the FF he’s not being discussed. So I don’t think it’s crazy that people are trying analyze that against the rest of his career when trying to assess if it’s a repeatable thing or a fluke.  I would think IU fans did the same about Crean and I wouldn’t question that for a second.

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

But you weren't looking at his whole resume. And you downplayed their Final Four Run.

My response was to mention Marquette's deeper NCAA runs as an example of a double standard.

I mentioned Moser's MVC finishes in his last five seasons:

Reverse order:

1st
2nd
1st
1st
5th

That's pretty good.

Other successes elsewhere were mentioned, He's one of two coaches in UALR history with top 100 KenPom finishes, or his time at SLU.  These things for some present more than just "one lucky final four run.

Fair game is the time it takes to improve, or some things could have been better here or there, or style of play or whatever people want to mention...all fair.

Can he recruit to win in the Big East? That's a reasonable question. It would be a reasonable question for a lot of candidates. He obviously recruits for Loyola and he was the lead recruiter for SLU while there. He would need to hire a couple of good recruiters and put a staff together.

But his resume is much better than one Final Four run.


*Disclaimer, I am not advocating for Moser to be MU's next HC.

You've definitely laid out the case for Moser.  I think he's a top 5 candidate for the MU job.  He's just not at the very top of my list.

[marqfan22]

So we should be rooting against Texas if we want Shaka yes?

I’d take Shaka!!!

[Dr. Blackheart]

Hire Gates

[shoothoops]

I already mentioned above, Im certain Crean doesn’t get IU without the FF.

Buzz is a bad comparison. He’d made back to back S16s and won the Big East that year.  He was a hot name every offseason before the E8.

Moser has had a career with accomplishments but without the FF he’s not being discussed. So I don’t think it’s crazy that people are trying analyze that against the rest of his career when trying to assess if it’s a repeatable thing or a fluke.  I would think IU fans did the same about Crean and I wouldn’t question that for a second.

But that's just it, some, many people weren't analyzing the rest of his career, just the FF run. If you read Lazar's first post, (and 2nd and 3rd) his entire focus was on Moser's FF run and little else. That's to whom I replied in this example.

Many other people here have posted that Moser's career is simply one Final Four run. When I look at his career, his Final Four Run is certainly a great accomplishment, as many good coaches, even schools don't get those. But he has other strong results and experience as well that some would look at just as much if not more.

*Disclaimer I am not advocating for Moser to be MUBB's coach.

[brewcity77]

Thank you.

Bruce Weber is a really, really nice guy. One of the nicest in all of college basketball. And he's pretty well-regarded as a game coach. But he has trouble recruiting, and he's a "meh" motivator. He's had a very nice career and made a bunch of money. I wish him well ... but not at Marquette (unless he wants to be an assistant for us).

Had Wojo stayed, Weber getting fired and taking an AC job was my top hope.

[shoothoops]

You've definitely laid out the case for Moser.  I think he's a top 5 candidate for the MU job.  He's just not at the very top of my list.

I'm not making a case for Moser. I have mentioned many times that I. not advocating him to be MUBB's next coach.

I just pointed out MUBB is a few points away many times over from not having a Final Four and Elite 8 in the past 20 years. Others can say similar too. If MUBB gets credit for those achievements, and I believe they deserve that, then Loyola does too.

And I pointed out Loyola's regular season accomishments and some other things as to show Moser's resume is about much more than a FF run.

[GooooMarquette]

Had Wojo stayed, Weber getting fired and taking an AC job was my top hope.

Yep. He coulda been great as Wojo's Jerry Wainwright.

[Silkk the Shaka]

Can Moser recruit? Their players looked really good to me yesterday. Solid fundamentals. Crisp passing.

[DefinitelyNotPorterMoser]

I think this is generous. His typical class ranked around 120 nationally.  His best two classes post-FF were 85 and 87.  His 2020 class and his class for 2021 are both in the 100s.  There are roughly 75 P6 schools plus Gonzaga.  So he wasn’t pulling in top 25 mid major classes and wasn’t even pulling in top 10 MM classes after the highest profile magical event a school like Loyola could have.

He can identify talent for his system and coaches players up clearly, but I have big concerns about him being able to go out and get top 75/100 guys needed to be BE contenders.  He’s never recruited at that level, even as an assistant. Even sole time at a power school, A&M, were some brutal years under Barone where they weren’t snagging any talent

That’s my worry. There is no doubt he’s a good Xs and Os guy.

Recruiting to Loyola is tough, Final Four or no. The facilities aren't great and it's a commuter school. You aren't getting five stars to come to Loyola. You probably aren't getting four stars to come to Loyola. Once you get past the top 100 players in the nation ... isn't it more about what the coach can do with those players than what the players can do for their coach?

Wojo had some top 25 classes, and that didn't work out to well.

[cheebs09]

Recruiting to Loyola is tough, Final Four or no. The facilities aren't great and it's a commuter school. You aren't getting five stars to come to Loyola. You probably aren't getting four stars to come to Loyola. Once you get past the top 100 players in the nation ... isn't it more about what the coach can do with those players than what the players can do for their coach?

Wojo had some top 25 classes, and that didn't work out to well.

That’s exactly the screen name I’d expect Porter Moser to have....

[MU82]

Wojo had some top 25 classes, and that didn't work out to well.

Just because Wojo wasn't a good enough coach to get the most out of his top-25 classes, it doesn't mean top-25 classes should be avoided.

Coaching well and recruiting well aren't mutually exclusive notions.