Wojo's Most Disappointing Year

[Dr. Blackheart]

I think you've mostly got it.  As fans, I think we can objectively say/think MU underperformed this season.  However, using preseason computer numbers as PROOF of over/under performance is dumb.  Computers are probably worse than humans at projecting the value of an incoming player when that player has no college stats.

Put simply, MU ended the season ranked EXACTLY where the computers should have predicted they would have been preseason!  The computers guess was just way off.

It's the computer's fault!!!!

-Ted "Rocky" Kaczynski

[jesmu84]

Whether they over performed or under performed really doesn't matter.   The only thing that really matters is their actual performance which is well below what should be acceptable at Marquette.  To make it worse poor seasons are the trend rather than an anomaly.

What is your personal opinion on what should be acceptable at Marquette?

[Farley36]

What is your personal opinion on what should be acceptable at Marquette?

Nearly every year finish in the top half of the Big East
Win a Big East title occasionally
Play in the NCAA tourney nearly every year
Win a game most years
Make it to the 2nd week at least as often as you don't
In special years at least feel like you could be a final four team if things fall right.

Buzz's teams were acceptable.  Crean's were acceptable. 

I honestly don't think that's too much to ask.  I'm not someone who thinks it should be like when Al was here. 

[wadesworld]

Nearly every year finish in the top half of the Big East
Win a Big East title occasionally
Play in the NCAA tourney nearly every year
Win a game most years
Make it to the 2nd week at least as often as you don't
In special years at least feel like you could be a final four team if things fall right.

Buzz's teams were acceptable.  Crean's were acceptable. 

I honestly don't think that's too much to ask.  I'm not someone who thinks it should be like when Al was here.

Most of these are reasonable.  The second weekend "at least as often as you don't" is pretty absurd.  There are very few programs in the country that are making a Sweet Sixteen every other year, at least.

[The Sultan]

Tom Crean made it to the S16 once and only won one NCAA game outside of the Final Four year.

So your criteria is either off or you are misremembering the Crean era.

[MU82]

As others are saying, the S16 expectations are a little off, especially if Crean's results were considered acceptable.

Otherwise, though, that was the most reasonable post in Farley's career. Congrats!

[Farley36]

Tom Crean made it to the S16 once and only won one NCAA game outside of the Final Four year.

So your criteria is either off or you are misremembering the Crean era.

The criteria are a rough idea but feel free to nitpick away.  Crean made it to the Final Four and had the single best player to play at Marquette perhaps ever.   That goes a long way.  Perhaps if Wojo ever even made it past the first round and wasn't famous for late season collapses he'd get cut some slack too.

[Lennys Tap]

What is your personal opinion on what should be acceptable at Marquette?

My personal opinion is beside the point. Here is what is acceptable to the decision makers at MU.

1. Finishing, on average, in 6.33 place in the Big East.
2. A .465 winning % in Big East games.
3. An NCAA tournament invite 33% of the time.
4. Zero NCAA tournament wins in 7 seasons.

This makes me sad.

[Farley36]

My personal opinion is beside the point. Here is what is acceptable to the decision makers at MU.

1. Finishing, on average, in 6.33 place in the Big East.
2. A .465 winning % in Big East games.
3. An NCAA tournament invite 33% of the time.
4. Zero NCAA tournament wins in 7 seasons.

This makes me sad.

It's ok because we beat UNC.

[wadesworld]

My personal opinion is beside the point. Here is what is acceptable to the decision makers at MU.

1. Finishing, on average, in 6.33 place in the Big East.
2. A .465 winning % in Big East games.
3. An NCAA tournament invite 33% of the time.
4. Zero NCAA tournament wins in 7 seasons.

This makes me sad.

So you're going to include the 2019-2020 season as a chance for the NCAA Tournament, but count it as a miss. Makes sense.

[swoopem]

My personal opinion is beside the point. Here is what is acceptable to the decision makers at MU.

1. Finishing, on average, in 6.33 place in the Big East.
2. A .465 winning % in Big East games.
3. An NCAA tournament invite 33% of the time.
4. Zero NCAA tournament wins in 7 seasons.

This makes me sad.

But he's a good guy!

[Lennys Tap]

So you're going to include the 2019-2020 season as a chance for the NCAA Tournament, but count it as a miss. Makes sense.

I did not, but I counted this year as a miss. 2 out of 6 is 33% which is what I said in #3.

[WhiteTrash]

Yeah, don't confuse the fact that many fans are mailing it in with competitive athletes and coaches mailing it in. The latter happens only very rarely. This year's team had many chances to mail it in and yet I believe their competitiveness has been one of the few real positives of the season.

I know you didn't predict 0-31. I was using hyperbole ... and I at first thought you were too when you said they won't go .500 next season even with a bunch of cupcakes on the schedule. Especially given that they went .500 this season without many cupcakes and with a litany of problems.

Won 4 of their last 5. The opposite of mailing it in.

Fair enough. We have different expectations. If Wojo is here next year, I guess I don't see the "litany of problems" going away.

I will give Wojo props (but not an extension) if he can keep everyone for next year. If the wrong guy(s) transfer , IMHO, it will be an ugly season next year. Unfortunately, we have seen key players walk out on Wojo in the past, so this is a real possibility. 

[MU82]

Fair enough. We have different expectations. If Wojo is here next year, I guess I don't see the "litany of problems" going away.

I will give Wojo props (but not an extension) if he can keep everyone for next year. If the wrong guy(s) transfer , IMHO, it will be an ugly season next year. Unfortunately, we have seen key players walk out on Wojo in the past, so this is a real possibility.

I don't think our expectations are very different.

You made a point of saying you didn't think we'd have one next year, and I simply said that this season - which most here believe was a total, unmitigated disaster - was a .500 season.

For the record, I expect MUCH better than .500 seasons from Marquette basketball. I expect a season like 2019-20 to be the "floor" - on the bubble, a few decent wins, a couple bad losses, sneaking in as a 10 seed. Otherwise, I want at least Buzz-like results, with some NCAA tourney wins, some second weekends. Would be nice to get a Final Four (or at least a legit shot at one) once or twice a decade.

Do you expect more than that?

[goldeneagle91114]

Per @PaintTouches the lack of national media attention on the current MU coaches "seat" is a strong indication he'll be back next year.

Marquette's descent to irrelevance will only continue next season

[panda]

Per @PaintTouches the lack of national media attention on the current MU coaches "seat" is a strong indication he'll be back next year.

Marquette's descent to irrelevance will only continue next season

We're the perpetual 8 seed in the NBA playoffs.

[WhiteTrash]

I don't think our expectations are very different.

You made a point of saying you didn't think we'd have one next year, and I simply said that this season - which most here believe was a total, unmitigated disaster - was a .500 season.

For the record, I expect MUCH better than .500 seasons from Marquette basketball. I expect a season like 2019-20 to be the "floor" - on the bubble, a few decent wins, a couple bad losses, sneaking in as a 10 seed. Otherwise, I want at least Buzz-like results, with some NCAA tourney wins, some second weekends. Would be nice to get a Final Four (or at least a legit shot at one) once or twice a decade.

Do you expect more than that?

I do think we have similar expectation of the MU program. Just because I expected a .500 season this year, by no means do I think it is acceptable for a program like MU. The past seven years have convinced me Wojo can't live up to mine or most MU fans expectations.

I have faith that MU will make a good hire sometime in the next year to replace Wojo because there will be plenty of really good coaches who would love the opportunity that MU is. Great fans, great conference, great facilities, great pay and a great University. MU Rah! Rah!

[bilsu]

We lost to DePaul, because nobody could hit a shot. Some of the misses were not even close. It had nothing to do with coaching. Sometimes a team is just going to have a bad shooting game. Villanova just had one last week.

[WhiteTrash]

We lost to DePaul, because nobody could hit a shot. Some of the misses were not even close. It had nothing to do with coaching. Sometimes a team is just going to have a bad shooting game. Villanova just had one last week.

Unfortunately, losses to DePaul are one of many reasons to conclude that Wojo is not good enough for the MU and maybe any P6 job.  Off set DePaul losses with NCAA wins and this thread does not exist. Jay Wright could lose to DePaul once a year for the next five years and no one will call for his job.

[mu_hilltopper]

My expectation is for MU to be as good as UW.  The end.

You know what's going to the most disappointing year for MU fans? 

Next year.  MU finishes 6th in the BE and MU keeps Wojo yet another year, because progress.  Yay.

[MU82]

You know what's going to the most disappointing year for MU fans? 

Next year.  MU finishes 6th in the BE and MU keeps Wojo yet another year, because progress.  Yay.

That absolutely could happen.

So could this:

With the path we have - GT, Nova w/o starting backcourt, StJ/SH - we could win the BET this week. If that happens, Wojo could get a "legit" contract extension, one that doesn't involve significant lowering of the buyout.

In a way, it would be kinda funny because it would make some of Scoops' WOJO IS THE WORST COACH IN BASKETBALL HISTORY! NoJos' heads explode. But it probably wouldn't be good for the program medium- or long-term.

[DienerTime34]

Just because message boards are a great place for hypothetical debate, let's say Wojo takes MU to the Final 4 next year after winning a Big East title, then leaves for another school. Would Wojo or Crean's overall body of work be better in this scenario?

My vote would still be for Crean, which says a lot for Wojo's tenure here. I'd love to hear your thoughts.

[Galway Eagle]

Just because message boards are a great place for hypothetical debate, let's say Wojo takes MU to the Final 4 next year after winning a Big East title, then leaves for another school. Would Wojo or Crean's overall body of work be better in this scenario?

My vote would still be for Crean, which says a lot for Wojo's tenure here. I'd love to hear your thoughts.

Crean. Wojo has Ellanson and Markus to hang his hat on, I guess you could maybe argue Sam and Rowsey? Crean has Wade Deiner Novak, 3 amigos and Lazar.

I'd say Creans successes are heads and shoulders better

[MUfan12]

Just because message boards are a great place for hypothetical debate, let's say Wojo takes MU to the Final 4 next year after winning a Big East title, then leaves for another school. Would Wojo or Crean's overall body of work be better in this scenario?

My vote would still be for Crean, which says a lot for Wojo's tenure here. I'd love to hear your thoughts.

Crean, because of the difference in the program when each inherited it. And I'm not talking about the roster. Wojo has far more at his disposal than Crean did when he took over. Better facilities, infrastructure, travel, conference, TV exposure, etc.

[panda]

Crean, because of the difference in the program when each inherited it. And I'm not talking about the roster. Wojo has far more at his disposal than Crean did when he took over. Better facilities, infrastructure, travel, conference, TV exposure, etc.

How many losing records in conference did Crean have?