learning to win?

[AZMarqfan]

This was a tough one, but a win is a win.  The last two years the entire offense was to let Markus chuck it (in 18-19 we had Hauser's too).  But we really never saw other guys get touches and develop.  So here we are in 2021 and we really don't have many veteran guys that have learned how to win.  If we could finish at the end, we'd have 4-5 more wins.  But also, looking at our rosters, here's what we have

• A PG who played most of a season last year, then needed a break (very young, gaining experience)
• A C whose job in recent years was to set picks, rebound, and block shots.  He's showing some nice touch and improvement, but doesn't get enough touches in the post
• A frosh PF who often plays soft (goes up weak and blocked by guys 5" shorter), but tonight played much tougher.  Often loses his man on D.
• A senior SF with nice 3 pt touch, rebounding, and explosiveness, but is relatively young with minimal experience with the ball in his hands
• a frosh 6th man who has nice intensity and hustle
• a scrawny sophomore PG with nice ball skills and defense, but a poor shot.  Reminder, he should be a frosh this year.
• a senior guard that is still young in experience due to chronic injuries (Elliott)
• a frosh that actually saw the floor tonight
• a redshirt sophomore who we've seen on the floor lately, but hasn't done much with the ball yet as he's getting comfortable
• a 5th year senior SG that can play well in stretches and play good D, but also makes some boneheaded mistakes and lazy passes

Given that our roster wasn't really developed in past years, and given the youth of 6 of our players and relative inexperience of 2 others, I think it would have been shocking for this team to thrive early on in BE play.  Losing Markus may have hurt, but so did losing Bailey who was really stepping up.  As frustrating as close losses have been, can we really expect to lose with that inexperience?  I like this squad.  I like their athleticism.  I like that they actually play defense some times.  It's nice seeing the ball in lots of players' hands, not just one.  I wish this team had better shooters.  But when you compare them to a senior-heavy team like Wisconsin or Missouri, those teams are more likely to thrive in late game situations.  Give us this team next year with Theo and Cain back, and perhaps they'll win more of these close games. 

[tower912]

That is going to get you some serious backlash.   

[panda]

This was a tough one, but a win is a win.  The last two years the entire offense was to let Markus chuck it (in 18-19 we had Hauser's too).  But we really never saw other guys get touches and develop.  So here we are in 2021 and we really don't have many veteran guys that have learned how to win.  If we could finish at the end, we'd have 4-5 more wins.  But also, looking at our rosters, here's what we have

• A PG who played most of a season last year, then needed a break (very young, gaining experience)
• A C whose job in recent years was to set picks, rebound, and block shots.  He's showing some nice touch and improvement, but doesn't get enough touches in the post
• A frosh PF who often plays soft (goes up weak and blocked by guys 5" shorter), but tonight played much tougher.  Often loses his man on D.
• A senior SF with nice 3 pt touch, rebounding, and explosiveness, but is relatively young with minimal experience with the ball in his hands
• a frosh 6th man who has nice intensity and hustle
• a scrawny sophomore PG with nice ball skills and defense, but a poor shot.  Reminder, he should be a frosh this year.
• a senior guard that is still young in experience due to chronic injuries (Elliott)
• a frosh that actually saw the floor tonight
• a redshirt sophomore who we've seen on the floor lately, but hasn't done much with the ball yet as he's getting comfortable
• a 5th year senior SG that can play well in stretches and play good D, but also makes some boneheaded mistakes and lazy passes

Given that our roster wasn't really developed in past years, and given the youth of 6 of our players and relative inexperience of 2 others, I think it would have been shocking for this team to thrive early on in BE play.  Losing Markus may have hurt, but so did losing Bailey who was really stepping up.  As frustrating as close losses have been, can we really expect to lose with that inexperience?  I like this squad.  I like their athleticism.  I like that they actually play defense some times.  It's nice seeing the ball in lots of players' hands, not just one.  I wish this team had better shooters.  But when you compare them to a senior-heavy team like Wisconsin or Missouri, those teams are more likely to thrive in late game situations.  Give us this team next year with Theo and Cain back, and perhaps they'll win more of these close games.

Maybe we'll go 10-8 in conference next year. Fingers crossed!

[PointWarrior]

10–8 next year means Wojo likely wins the BE Mediocrities Trophy outright next year.

[5DollarPitcher]

Did we not learn our lesson with "we have a pretty good team and coach"?

Better yet, did we not learn our lesson at any point during the last 7 years?

A 10 page word salad trying to convince yourself (or anyone else) that a Wojo team will ever be anything more than the embodiment of mediocrity is a giant waste of your breath.

Our efforts would be better focused at criticizing this oaf and the oafs that keep him employed.

[Viper]

This was a tough one, but a win is a win.  The last two years the entire offense was to let Markus chuck it (in 18-19 we had Hauser's too).  But we really never saw other guys get touches and develop.  So here we are in 2021 and we really don't have many veteran guys that have learned how to win.  If we could finish at the end, we'd have 4-5 more wins.  But also, looking at our rosters, here's what we have

• A PG who played most of a season last year, then needed a break (very young, gaining experience)
• A C whose job in recent years was to set picks, rebound, and block shots.  He's showing some nice touch and improvement, but doesn't get enough touches in the post
• A frosh PF who often plays soft (goes up weak and blocked by guys 5" shorter), but tonight played much tougher.  Often loses his man on D.
• A senior SF with nice 3 pt touch, rebounding, and explosiveness, but is relatively young with minimal experience with the ball in his hands
• a frosh 6th man who has nice intensity and hustle
• a scrawny sophomore PG with nice ball skills and defense, but a poor shot.  Reminder, he should be a frosh this year.
• a senior guard that is still young in experience due to chronic injuries (Elliott)
• a frosh that actually saw the floor tonight
• a redshirt sophomore who we've seen on the floor lately, but hasn't done much with the ball yet as he's getting comfortable
• a 5th year senior SG that can play well in stretches and play good D, but also makes some boneheaded mistakes and lazy passes

Given that our roster wasn't really developed in past years, and given the youth of 6 of our players and relative inexperience of 2 others, I think it would have been shocking for this team to thrive early on in BE play.  Losing Markus may have hurt, but so did losing Bailey who was really stepping up.  As frustrating as close losses have been, can we really expect to lose with that inexperience?  I like this squad.  I like their athleticism.  I like that they actually play defense some times.  It's nice seeing the ball in lots of players' hands, not just one.  I wish this team had better shooters.  But when you compare them to a senior-heavy team like Wisconsin or Missouri, those teams are more likely to thrive in late game situations.  Give us this team next year with Theo and Cain back, and perhaps they'll win more of these close games.

to quote  John McEnroe...you can't be serious?

[brewcity77]

So this year sucks, but we still have next year, right? That should keep our optimism up until November.

[MU82]

I love the attempt at optimism but ...

It's Year 7. We're 9-9. We lost b-t-b home games to St. John's and DePaul.

Please.

[Galway Eagle]

I love the attempt at optimism but ...

It's Year 7. We're 9-9. We lost b-t-b home games to St. John's and DePaul.

Please.

I'm certainly upset but to be fair in an ordinary year we'd be what like 14 or 15 and 9? That does sound a lot better looking at these last games.

[MUHoopsFan2]

I'm certainly upset but to be fair in an ordinary year we'd be what like 14 or 15 and 9? That does sound a lot better looking at these last games.

More complaints....smh.

Judge this year differently...especially home games with a young teams with no fans or family! You all need to calm down with your demands man. lol

it's unreal... more than just wins and losses. They play well and play hard and play to win. if they did not then you can cry. I don't see it.

Fire this one and have this transfer, bench this guy....heck no. any team around .500 by 1 or 2 games has had a great year.

[willie warrior]

This was a tough one, but a win is a win.  The last two years the entire offense was to let Markus chuck it (in 18-19 we had Hauser's too).  But we really never saw other guys get touches and develop.  So here we are in 2021 and we really don't have many veteran guys that have learned how to win.  If we could finish at the end, we'd have 4-5 more wins.  But also, looking at our rosters, here's what we have

• A PG who played most of a season last year, then needed a break (very young, gaining experience)
• A C whose job in recent years was to set picks, rebound, and block shots.  He's showing some nice touch and improvement, but doesn't get enough touches in the post
• A frosh PF who often plays soft (goes up weak and blocked by guys 5" shorter), but tonight played much tougher.  Often loses his man on D.
• A senior SF with nice 3 pt touch, rebounding, and explosiveness, but is relatively young with minimal experience with the ball in his hands
• a frosh 6th man who has nice intensity and hustle
• a scrawny sophomore PG with nice ball skills and defense, but a poor shot.  Reminder, he should be a frosh this year.
• a senior guard that is still young in experience due to chronic injuries (Elliott)
• a frosh that actually saw the floor tonight
• a redshirt sophomore who we've seen on the floor lately, but hasn't done much with the ball yet as he's getting comfortable
• a 5th year senior SG that can play well in stretches and play good D, but also makes some boneheaded mistakes and lazy passes

Given that our roster wasn't really developed in past years, and given the youth of 6 of our players and relative inexperience of 2 others, I think it would have been shocking for this team to thrive early on in BE play.  Losing Markus may have hurt, but so did losing Bailey who was really stepping up.  As frustrating as close losses have been, can we really expect to lose with that inexperience?  I like this squad.  I like their athleticism.  I like that they actually play defense some times.  It's nice seeing the ball in lots of players' hands, not just one.  I wish this team had better shooters.  But when you compare them to a senior-heavy team like Wisconsin or Missouri, those teams are more likely to thrive in late game situations.  Give us this team next year with Theo and Cain back, and perhaps they'll win more of these close games.

Sold. Extend Wojo-Dukiet for 21 years

[avid1010]

I'm certainly upset but to be fair in an ordinary year we'd be what like 14 or 15 and 9? That does sound a lot better looking at these last games.

In a normal year we wouldn't be sniffing the NCAA tourney...yet again.

I'm not sure why COVID and a "normal" year comes in to the discussions.  Everyone knows it's not a normal year.  Everyone also recognizes the majority of BEAST teams are doing better than MU in an apples to apples comparison.  I'd be much more likely to give Wojo a pass if we had serious injuries to deal with, etc. 

Many of us "NoJos" posted very realistic expectations for MU 2-4 years ago...they aren't being met.  There isn't anything wrong with believing the coach should go if those expectations can't be met. 

[tower912]

Thank you, AZ and 2, for daring to go against the current zeitgeist.

[hairy worthen]

More complaints....smh.

Judge this year differently...especially home games with a young teams with no fans or family! You all need to calm down with your demands man. lol

it's unreal... more than just wins and losses. They play well and play hard and play to win. if they did not then you can cry. I don't see it.

Fire this one and have this transfer, bench this guy....heck no. any team around .500 by 1 or 2 games has had a great year.

Wait, so the covid situation only affects Marquette?  OHHH that's it, no wonder why the team sucks. Even still, how can you be a fan of any team and be happy with a close to .500 record?  Well never mind, there are Lions fans I guess

[bilsu]

We do not have a player that can be counted on to make the game winning shot. The last one we had was Sam. I do not think Markus ever hit a game winner. He more often turned the ball over on the last crucial play in the game. Remember the end of the St' John's game last year, when Markus drove in for the game tying shot and had the ball knock out of his hands and it subsequently hit his knee and went out of bounds. There were probably five games last year where Markus could not make the winning play. Wojo's teams have lost a lot of close games, because he has not recruited the money time player.

[willie warrior]

10–8 next year means Wojo likely wins the BE Mediocrities Trophy outright next year.

Hasn't he won it every year?

[willie warrior]

So this year sucks, but we still have next year, right? That should keep our optimism up until November.

With Wojo-Dukiet it is always next year. Give him the extension

[hairy worthen]

We do not have a player that can be counted on to make the game winning shot. The last one we had was Sam. I do not think Markus ever hit a game winner. He more often turned the ball over on the last crucial play in the game. Remember the end of the St' John's game last year, when Markus drove in for the game tying shot and had the ball knock out of his hands and it subsequently hit his knee and went out of bounds. There were probably five games last year where Markus could not make the winning play. Wojo's teams have lost a lot of close games, because he has not recruited the money time player.

Howard was a money player. The problem was everyone knew he was taking the shot and everyone knew he wasn't passing.  Again, coaching

The image that sticks in my mind is Howard trying to take the last shot while being doubled and Hauser screaming for the ball, wide open.

[Galway Eagle]

More complaints....smh.

Judge this year differently...especially home games with a young teams with no fans or family! You all need to calm down with your demands man. lol

it's unreal... more than just wins and losses. They play well and play hard and play to win. if they did not then you can cry. I don't see it.

Fire this one and have this transfer, bench this guy....heck no. any team around .500 by 1 or 2 games has had a great year.

Umm a red shirt senior, two seniors, and a red shirt Junior is not a young team.

They do not play well, I have 20 turnovers on a stat sheet that say they don't. I agree they play hard, albeit disorganized.

Is your point that any team around .500 in any year has had a great year or just this year? I mean either way it's a pretty ridiculous opinion. Have you ever rooted for a good marquette team?

Also how is saying we'd have a few more garbage wins in a normal year a complaint?

[panda]

Umm a red shirt senior, two seniors, and a red shirt Junior is not a young team.

They do not play well, I have 20 turnovers on a stat sheet that say they don't. I agree they play hard, albeit disorganized.

Is your point that any team around .500 in any year has had a great year or just this year? I mean either way it's a pretty ridiculous opinion. Have you ever rooted for a good marquette team?

Also how is saying we'd have a few more garbage wins in a normal year a complaint?

Exactly. If you think the team is inexperienced and making tons of mistakes this year, just wait until next season.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Age is important.

Talent is more important.

Aged talent is most important.

Our oldest players are two guys who were the 4/5 starters last season and two guys who are career bench pieces. They are old but have never been the most talented players on our team.

Our most talented players are a guy who played half a season at another school before transferring and two guys who were in high school last season. They are talented but are not old.

This is what a down year looks like. The old talented players from the last recruiting cycle graduated. Leaving behind older ancillary players and the younger talented players from the new recruiting cycle.

However, a good coach at this point should have the team making the tournament even in a down year.

Assuming Carton, Garcia, and Lewis all return (big assumption regarding Carton), I anticipate that the team will be significantly better than this season. Add an impact transfer at the 2-3 position and I think we could be really good next season.

[Goose]

TAMU

I agree that talent is the name of the game. Aged talent is all the better.

[tower912]

Age is important.

Talent is more important.

Aged talent is most important.

Our oldest players are two guys who were the 4/5 starters last season and two guys who are career bench pieces. They are old but have never been the most talented players on our team.

Our most talented players are a guy who played half a season at another school before transferring and two guys who were in high school last season. They are talented but are not old.

This is what a down year looks like. The old talented players from the last recruiting cycle graduated. Leaving behind older ancillary players and the younger talented players from the new recruiting cycle.

However, a good coach at this point should have the team making the tournament even in a down year.

Assuming Carton, Garcia, and Lewis all return (big assumption regarding Carton), I anticipate that the team will be significantly better than this season. Add an impact transfer at the 2-3 position and I think we could be really good next season.

We agree

[MU82]

Age is important.

Talent is more important.

Aged talent is most important.

Our oldest players are two guys who were the 4/5 starters last season and two guys who are career bench pieces. They are old but have never been the most talented players on our team.

Our most talented players are a guy who played half a season at another school before transferring and two guys who were in high school last season. They are talented but are not old.

This is what a down year looks like. The old talented players from the last recruiting cycle graduated. Leaving behind older ancillary players and the younger talented players from the new recruiting cycle.

However, a good coach at this point should have the team making the tournament even in a down year.

Assuming Carton, Garcia, and Lewis all return (big assumption regarding Carton), I anticipate that the team will be significantly better than this season. Add an impact transfer at the 2-3 position and I think we could be really good next season.

I agree with most of this.

The problem is that DJ very well might go ... and that Wojo won't be able to bring in a real impact transfer at the 2/3 (something he hasn't done in 7 years) ... and that Wojo would still be the coach.

But sure, if it all aligns perfectly (it never does), we could be real good next season.

Would love to see it! We Are Marquette!

[Hards Alumni]

We are at a point in the season where we rationalize how bad we are.  Seven seasons under the same coach, and results have not improved.  I don't want any more excuses about age/talent/injuries.  Wins are what matter, and they aren't happening.  Furthermore, there is nothing on the horizon that leads me to believe that it gets any better in the next year or two.  Cut bait, and let Steve limp back to Durham to fill in for K when his 'back hurts'.