RIP Hank Aaron

[GooooMarquette]

That's funny, because here was my text back to my son:

Yeah, that is amazing. But if you want to see some incredible low-strikeout totals for a HR hitter, check out DiMaggio. In 1941, he struck out 13 times!

DiMaggio's low strikeout totals are fantastic. But any comparison to Hammerin' Hank is irrelevant. 'Home run hitters' notoriously strikeout at a much higher rate than guys with lower HR totals. A much better comparison would be a guy like Tony Gwynn or Wade Boggs. Gwynn in particular compares very favorably to DiMaggio. To wit:

Best season in terms of fewest Ks - slight edge to DiMaggio:

1995: Gwynn played 135 games and had 577 plate appearances and 14 strikeouts (1K in 41.2 PA).
1941: DiMaggio played 139 games and had 541 plate appearances and 13 strikeouts (1K in 41.6 PA).

Overall career - edge to Gwynn:

Gwynn with 10,232 PA and 434 Ks (1K in 23.6 PA).
DiMaggio with 7,672 PA and 369 Ks (1K in 20.8 PA).

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

DiMaggio's low strikeout totals are fantastic. But any comparison to Hammerin' Hank is irrelevant. 'Home run hitters' notoriously strikeout at a much higher rate than guys with lower HR totals. A much better comparison would be a guy like Tony Gwynn or Wade Boggs. Gwynn in particular compares very favorably to DiMaggio. To wit:

Best season in terms of fewest Ks - slight edge to DiMaggio:

1995: Gwynn played 135 games and had 577 plate appearances and 14 strikeouts (1K in 41.2 PA).
1941: DiMaggio played 139 games and had 541 plate appearances and 13 strikeouts (1K in 41.6 PA).

Overall career - edge to Gwynn:

Gwynn with 10,232 PA and 434 Ks (1K in 23.6 PA).
DiMaggio with 7,672 PA and 369 Ks (1K in 20.8 PA).

DiMaggio hit 361 HRs in an era of massive stadiums - including his own.  But twice lead the league in HRs.  Slugged .579 during his career.

Gwynn hit 125 HRs.  Slugged .459.

They aren't comparable players at all.

[cheebs09]

Why? Is there some evidence that his death was a vaccine reaction?

The simple reality is that 86-year old guys die pretty regularly. In fact, by making it to 86, Aaron outlived life expectancy for an American male by 10 years. And as an African-American, he outlived his life expectancy by 17 years. Unless there is some direct evidence that it was vaccine-related, I suspect it's just an elderly man dying.

Everything I’ve read is he had a stroke.

[shoothoops]

An example of a player that has hit a lot of Home Runs (662) but who has walked more times than he has struck out, is Albert Pujols. 1331 walks 1304 K’s.

Hank Aaron 755 HR’s. 1402 walks. 1383 K’s.

Similar to Aaron, Pujols has never struck out 100 times in a season.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

I agree. Bonds was a great player destined for the Hall of Fame before he apparently started juicing. Why he chose to sully his legacy at that point is beyond me.

Same reason as Brady Anderson, Eric Gagne, Sosa, Clemons, McGwire, the entire 1989 Texas Rangers team, etc., etc.

$$

[withoutbias]

An example of a player that has hit a lot of Home Runs (662) but who has walked more times than he has struck out, is Albert Pujols. 1331 walks 1304 K’s.

Hank Aaron 755 HR’s. 1402 walks. 1383 K’s.

Similar to Aaron, Pujols has never struck out 100 times in a season.

Pujols is much more Bonds than Aaron.

[shoothoops]

Pujols is much more Bonds than Aaron.

Pujols is Pujols. Bonds is Bonds. Aaron is Aaron. They are all different players. There was some discussion of players that have hit a lot of home runs that walk more than strike out.

[Jockey]

How in the world did Aaron hit cross handed?  I didn't realize he learned that way and then switched his grip early in his career.

He started it as a kid when his family was too poor to buy him a bat or ball. He used a stick and would hit rocks and bottle caps. Once he started getting coaching, he changed his grip.

[buckchuckler]

An example of a player that has hit a lot of Home Runs (662) but who has walked more times than he has struck out, is Albert Pujols. 1331 walks 1304 K’s.

Hank Aaron 755 HR’s. 1402 walks. 1383 K’s.

Similar to Aaron, Pujols has never struck out 100 times in a season.

Frank Thomas walked about 300 more times than he Kd in his career.  He struck out 100 times twice.  But .419 career OBP.

[shoothoops]

Frank Thomas walked about 300 more times than he Kd in his career.  He struck out 100 times twice.  But .419 career OBP.

Yep, Thomas is in that little higher walk rate type of player than Aaron or Pujols.

Stan Musial comes to mind. Stan Musial walked 903 times more than he struck out, and still managed 475 Home Runs.  Most K's he ever had in a season was 46.

Babe Ruth and Ted Williams would possibly be the best numbers with that stat. Mickey Mantle would have done it. Lou Gehrig. Others. More walks than K's, sub 100 K seasons, and power.

Chipper Jones would be another modern era player to do it with 468 HR's. I believe Carl Yastrzemski did it and would be would be in that mid to upper 400's Home Runs similar to Jones.

[GooooMarquette]

DiMaggio hit 361 HRs in an era of massive stadiums - including his own.  But twice lead the league in HRs.  Slugged .579 during his career.

Gwynn hit 125 HRs.  Slugged .459.

They aren't comparable players at all.

Not saying they're comparable...but DiMaggio and Aaron are even less comparable, and DiMaggio was not someone most would call a 'home run hitter.'  Consider this: The HR gap between Aaron and DiMaggio is almost twice as big as the gap between DiMaggio and Gwynn.

He was a great hitter with decent power...but not a 'home run hitter.'

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Not saying they're comparable...but DiMaggio and Aaron are even less comparable, and DiMaggio was not someone most would call a 'home run hitter.'  Consider this: The HR gap between Aaron and DiMaggio is almost twice as big as the gap between DiMaggio and Gwynn.

He was a great hitter with decent power...but not a 'home run hitter.'

I mean you literally compared them by placing their stats next to one another and giving Gwynn an edge.

Yes DiMaggio wasn’t a “home run hitter” even though he lead the league in HRs once. But he was a much more powerful hitter than Gwynn.

[GooooMarquette]

I mean you literally compared them by placing their stats next to one another and giving Gwynn an edge.

Yes DiMaggio wasn’t a “home run hitter” even though he lead the league in HRs once. But he was a much more powerful hitter than Gwynn.

I put their stats next to one another in response to a post that called DiMaggio a home run hitter.

[withoutbias]

Pujols is Pujols. Bonds is Bonds. Aaron is Aaron. They are all different players. There was some discussion of players that have hit a lot of home runs that walk more than strike out.

Right. Pujols, Mac, Bonds all homered and walked a lot. They also took a lot of anabolic steroids. Aaron walked and homered a lot without science helping him.

[The Big East]

Hank on the 1957 Season
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltu_2s6iHeM

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

I put their stats next to one another in response to a post that called DiMaggio a home run hitter.

So you didn't really compare someone to someone else when you put their stats next to one another.

Ok. 

[shoothoops]

Right. Pujols, Mac, Bonds all homered and walked a lot. They also took a lot of anabolic steroids. Aaron walked and homered a lot without science helping him.

Pujols has never been linked to steroids. Griffey Jr. , Thome, Thomas haven't been linked to them as well.

Bonds, McGwire, Sosa, Palmeiro, Manny Ramirez, David Ortiz, Gary Sheffield, Alex Rodriguez, are some 500 HR players who have been linked to p.e.d.s.

[GooooMarquette]

So you didn't really compare someone to someone else when you put their stats next to one another.

Ok. 

It was hyperbole to show that the other statement was equally ridiculous. Come on fluffy, you understand that.

[Jockey]

Some fun numbers from The Athletic.

His average season over those two decades from 1955-1974: .311/.379/.572/.951, with 36 home runs. Mike Trout has had exactly one season in his career in which he beat that slash line, with that many home runs. Hammerin‘ Hank had 20 seasons as That Guy.



Aaron’s OPS in his 20s: .947
Aaron’s OPS in his 30s: .948

He was the most dependable superstar on earth — year in, year out … and decade in, decade out.


Only three players ever had double-digit homers in both their age 20 and age 40 seasons:

Willie Mays, Ted Williams, Hank Aaron


Hank Aaron played in 25 All-Star Games. That is the most in history. The 3 active players who have appeared in the most All-Star Games are Trout, Kershaw and Verlander. They’ve played in 8 apiece. Which means that the 3 most celebrated All-Stars of this era have played in fewer All-Star Games combined (24) than Aaron played in all by himself.


MOST CONSECUTIVE SEASONS, UNDER 100 K’S, 300+ PA
Hank Aaron: 23
Carl Yastrzemski: 23
Pete Rose: 23


At age 40, in 1974, Aaron had a 20-homer season in which he struck out just 29 times? The last time anybody struck out fewer than 30 times in a season in which he hit at least 20 home runs? 4 decades ago, when George Brett had 24 homers, 22 K’s in 1980.

[The Big East]

The great Milwaukee Braves team had not only Henry Aaron but also Warren Spahn who holds the record for most wins by a left hander and most wins in the live ball era (since 1920) at 363 . In addition Eddie Mathews is considered among the top 5 third basemen of all time.

A lot of star power in the city at one time.
 

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Mathews was the only starter (player?) that played in Boston, Milwaukee and Atlanta for the Braves.  Also won a World Series as a bench player with the '68 Tigers.

[Jockey]

The great Milwaukee Braves team had not only Henry Aaron but also Warren Spahn who holds the record for most wins by a left hander and most wins in the live ball era (since 1920) at 363 . In addition Eddie Mathews is considered among the top 5 third basemen of all time.

A lot of star power in the city at one time.

Eddie was Aaron's best friend on the team and always stood up for him in racial situations. Joe Adcock - the big 1st baseman - on the other hand, was a stone cold racist.

[The Big East]

Mathews was the only starter (player?) that played in Boston, Milwaukee and Atlanta for the Braves.  Also won a World Series as a bench player with the '68 Tigers.

I saw Mathews last career hit in the 68 series.

https://www.jsonline.com/story/life/green-sheet/2018/10/23/milwaukee-braves-great-eddie-mathews-last-bat-1968-world-series-detroit-tigers-cardinals-bob-gibson/1672082002/

[GooooMarquette]

Some fun numbers from The Athletic.

His average season over those two decades from 1955-1974: .311/.379/.572/.951, with 36 home runs. Mike Trout has had exactly one season in his career in which he beat that slash line, with that many home runs. Hammerin‘ Hank had 20 seasons as That Guy.



Aaron’s OPS in his 20s: .947
Aaron’s OPS in his 30s: .948

He was the most dependable superstar on earth — year in, year out … and decade in, decade out.


Only three players ever had double-digit homers in both their age 20 and age 40 seasons:

Willie Mays, Ted Williams, Hank Aaron


Hank Aaron played in 25 All-Star Games. That is the most in history. The 3 active players who have appeared in the most All-Star Games are Trout, Kershaw and Verlander. They’ve played in 8 apiece. Which means that the 3 most celebrated All-Stars of this era have played in fewer All-Star Games combined (24) than Aaron played in all by himself.


MOST CONSECUTIVE SEASONS, UNDER 100 K’S, 300+ PA
Hank Aaron: 23
Carl Yastrzemski: 23
Pete Rose: 23


At age 40, in 1974, Aaron had a 20-homer season in which he struck out just 29 times? The last time anybody struck out fewer than 30 times in a season in which he hit at least 20 home runs? 4 decades ago, when George Brett had 24 homers, 22 K’s in 1980.

That level of consistency and longevity is astonishing, and the number of All-Star Game appearances also makes Hank the clear winner in all major sports in the US.

Kareem and Kobe lead the NBA with 19 and 18 respectively, with a few players at 15. The presumptive GOAT - Michael - had 14.

In the NFL, a handful of players have 14 Pro Bowl selections.

In the NHL, Gordie Howe is close to Hank with 23. The next highest is Ray Bourque with 19, and the presumptive GOAT - Gretzky - has 18.

I am truly lucky to have seen Hank play in person when he was with the Brewers. Even though he was slowing down (and playing DH), I had seen him on TV in his chase of the record and watched #715, so even pre-teen me knew I was watching a historically-great player.

[shoothoops]

Some fun numbers from The Athletic.

His average season over those two decades from 1955-1974: .311/.379/.572/.951, with 36 home runs. Mike Trout has had exactly one season in his career in which he beat that slash line, with that many home runs. Hammerin‘ Hank had 20 seasons as That Guy.



Aaron’s OPS in his 20s: .947
Aaron’s OPS in his 30s: .948

He was the most dependable superstar on earth — year in, year out … and decade in, decade out.


Only three players ever had double-digit homers in both their age 20 and age 40 seasons:

Willie Mays, Ted Williams, Hank Aaron


Hank Aaron played in 25 All-Star Games. That is the most in history. The 3 active players who have appeared in the most All-Star Games are Trout, Kershaw and Verlander. They’ve played in 8 apiece. Which means that the 3 most celebrated All-Stars of this era have played in fewer All-Star Games combined (24) than Aaron played in all by himself.


MOST CONSECUTIVE SEASONS, UNDER 100 K’S, 300+ PA
Hank Aaron: 23
Carl Yastrzemski: 23
Pete Rose: 23


At age 40, in 1974, Aaron had a 20-homer season in which he struck out just 29 times? The last time anybody struck out fewer than 30 times in a season in which he hit at least 20 home runs? 4 decades ago, when George Brett had 24 homers, 22 K’s in 1980.

You could do this in several categories with Hank Aaron. You mentioned George Brett in an example.

All time players with at least:
.300 avg
300 HR's
3,000 Hits

Hank Aaron, George Brett, Willie Mays, Stan Musial. (Pujols is at .299)