The Aging Demographic Supporting College Athletics

[MU82]

The major players don't.
Netflix doesn't.
Amazon Prime had 20 NFL games this year (Thursday night football), replays of old NBA and MLB games
Disney+ doesn't.

"Channels" are an artifact of television, so they should be a thing of the past but it's a paradigm that major sports leagues are still locked into because of the way deals are done. For example, the Big East sold their TV+streaming rights to Fox. Fox wants people to pay for their TV channel because that's how they produce content, and that's the end of that.

If you want live major sports via streaming you have to pirate it, or you basically have to pay for cable but on the internet via a service like Hulu or Sling or Fubo costing you ~$50/month. The subscriber base of those platforms is minuscule compared to other streaming platforms). It's also missing the point of cutting the cable cord since you're getting a full cable package just on the internet. Part of "the point" of cutting cable is only paying for content you want. The major television companies (who own Hulu) are opposed to switching things up though. It's too profitable the way it has always been.

The NFL dipping their toes into streaming is a good sign, hopefully the Big East follows suit!

You know who's avant guarde is the G-league:
1. They live stream games on their Twitch channel - https://www.twitch.tv/nbagleague
2. They allow any content creator on the platform to simulcast the game. For example, I could stream a Wisconsin Herd game for everyone here so that we could have our own chat room while we watch the game. Or if I were one of the podcast teams that posts here I could announce the game how I'd want. (Highlight example of a dude doing a G-league simulcast on twitch - https://www.twitch.tv/videos/211684975)

That's the North Star here for me. Get away from traditional broadcasts, and get the content out there into modern media delivery mechanisms.

I know this derailed the thread, so to bring it back around I think that this will get a much younger audience reengaged with the sport. Capturing more eyes will capture hearts. Captured hearts are more likely to donate.

Thanks for the informative answer. I obviously knew about Prime, Netflix, but didn't know some of the rest. I appreciate it.

Things will change. They always do. I don't really have a doom and gloom outlook on this subject (or on most things).

[JWags85]

My BS in Biomedical Science got me a job in a lab at under 40k in '06.  Sure the benes were good, but that was the pay.

My best friend graduated cum laude in ‘09 with a BS in Biomedical Engineering. Being told all his HS and college years that “there are always jobs for engineers” and “engineers almost always have the best starting pay”.  His options, short of moving to either coast, were either a group at GE Medical that was notorious for high layoffs and instability or a lab gig that payed similar to you.  He ended up going back to school within 2 years and is now a perfusionist.

[forgetful]

My best friend graduated cum laude in ‘09 with a BS in Biomedical Engineering. Being told all his HS and college years that “there are always jobs for engineers” and “engineers almost always have the best starting pay”.  His options, short of moving to either coast, were either a group at GE Medical that was notorious for high layoffs and instability or a lab gig that payed similar to you.  He ended up going back to school within 2 years and is now a perfusionist.

Yeah, there are still jobs out there that will pay 70k to a starting person in some of these fields, but they are also in the Bay Area, or east cost, where that type of income gets you nowhere.

I remember being asked by a friend to recommend people for a job in biotech, PhD level. I asked what it paid, and lets simply say it was what seemed like a lot. Then they told me what their rent was like for a 1-bedroom apartment in the Bay Area, and it did the math...turns out you need a massive salary out there to have a decent quality of life.

[GooooMarquette]

Yeah, there are still jobs out there that will pay 70k to a starting person in some of these fields, but they are also in the Bay Area, or east cost, where that type of income gets you nowhere.

I remember being asked by a friend to recommend people for a job in biotech, PhD level. I asked what it paid, and lets simply say it was what seemed like a lot. Then they told me what their rent was like for a 1-bedroom apartment in the Bay Area, and it did the math...turns out you need a massive salary out there to have a decent quality of life.

Yup. My daughter's BFF has a Master's in Computer Science from Stanford and works for Google in the Bay Area. She makes great money, but most of it goes for rent on her tiny apartment in SF...which she got because places in Silicon Valley were even more expensive.

My other daughter has a friend who works for Amazon in Seattle. She also pays a surprisingly high rent for a modest place, but it isn't as bad as the Bay Area.

[jficke13]

My BS in Biomedical Science got me a job in a lab at under 40k in '06.  Sure the benes were good, but that was the pay.

Coming out of (law)school I was offered $29k/yr... as an attorney. One of the partners at that firm is now a judge. Needless to say, I did not accept that offer.

[Hards Alumni]

Coming out of (law)school I was offered $29k/yr... as an attorney. One of the partners at that firm is now a judge. Needless to say, I did not accept that offer.

Public sector I assume?  Public defender?

[vogue65]

The major players don't.
Netflix doesn't.
Amazon Prime had 20 NFL games this year (Thursday night football), replays of old NBA and MLB games
Disney+ doesn't.

"Channels" are an artifact of television, so they should be a thing of the past but it's a paradigm that major sports leagues are still locked into because of the way deals are done. For example, the Big East sold their TV+streaming rights to Fox. Fox wants people to pay for their TV channel because that's how they produce content, and that's the end of that.

If you want live major sports via streaming you have to pirate it, or you basically have to pay for cable but on the internet via a service like Hulu or Sling or Fubo costing you ~$50/month. The subscriber base of those platforms is minuscule compared to other streaming platforms). It's also missing the point of cutting the cable cord since you're getting a full cable package just on the internet. Part of "the point" of cutting cable is only paying for content you want. The major television companies (who own Hulu) are opposed to switching things up though. It's too profitable the way it has always been.

The NFL dipping their toes into streaming is a good sign, hopefully the Big East follows suit!

You know who's avant guarde is the G-league:
1. They live stream games on their Twitch channel - https://www.twitch.tv/nbagleague
2. They allow any content creator on the platform to simulcast the game. For example, I could stream a Wisconsin Herd game for everyone here so that we could have our own chat room while we watch the game. Or if I were one of the podcast teams that posts here I could announce the game how I'd want. (Highlight example of a dude doing a G-league simulcast on twitch - https://www.twitch.tv/videos/211684975)

That's the North Star here for me. Get away from traditional broadcasts, and get the content out there into modern media delivery mechanisms.

I know this derailed the thread, so to bring it back around I think that this will get a much younger audience reengaged with the sport. Capturing more eyes will capture hearts. Captured hearts are more likely to donate.

It gives me a headache, what difference does it make?
Next year there will be a new list of in things.
Greatful I'm timing out.

[mu_hilltopper]

Not to mention a BS or BA no longer has the value it once did. I gradated with a BS in Chemistry and Biology. I was offered 9500/year salary back in '69 for my first job. That is equivalent to about 90K today. How many graduates today are offered 90K to start right out of school with just a BA or BS?

I was curious, so I checked the math on that.  $9500/year in 1969 is worth $68,900 today.

https://www.inflationtool.com/us-dollar/1969-to-present-value?amount=9500

[SaveOD238]

I think the relatively large tuitions paid by the more recent graduates definitely has a hand in it.  More of a "I gave plenty already" mentality.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aiqKK4ysI7g

My wife and I throw away every fundraising mailing from Marquette and say "when student loans are done, THEN I'll think about this."  And even then, we're way more likely to donate to PT (her) or Educ (me) scholarships than to Athletics.

[vogue65]

My wife and I throw away every fundraising mailing from Marquette and say "when student loans are done, THEN I'll think about this."  And even then, we're way more likely to donate to PT (her) or Educ (me) scholarships than to Athletics.

In a few years, perhaps next year, you won't recognise higher education.   The realignment is coming.  The population has been awakened on many fronts. 

[jficke13]

Public sector I assume?  Public defender?

Nope. Private small firm. Joke of an offer. I know the person who took the job, though for the life of me I have no idea why she did. She was independently wealthy, so I guess she just really wanted to spend time as exploited labor. <shrug>

[Billy Hoyle]

My wife and I throw away every fundraising mailing from Marquette and say "when student loans are done, THEN I'll think about this."  And even then, we're way more likely to donate to PT (her) or Educ (me) scholarships than to Athletics.

I know MU's and my law school's fundraising number memorized so I never answer. Last week MU sent me texts asking for money. Immediate delete.

My wife and I donated to MU on Giving Day (the program supporting DACA students) but that's it. Loans come first and then donations to organizations that are in high demand right now (for Christmas we gave money to my niece who was sponsoring kids transitioning out of foster care, which allowed her to sponsor five more kids, a local food bank, and an organization that provides vet care to people who cannot afford emergency care for their pets). Orgs like have much greater needs than colleges.

[vogue65]

Nope. Private small firm. Joke of an offer. I know the person who took the job, though for the life of me I have no idea why she did. She was independently wealthy, so I guess she just really wanted to spend time as exploited labor. <shrug>

Exploited labor, don't get me started.
Volunteerism is the most exploited labor. 
When labor is free it is wasted.  Pay the people who work at soup kitchens, the "clients" need the money and the self esteem they would get from the work.
The Christmas time volunteers are just trying to assuage their guilt.

[warriorchick]

Exploited labor, don't get me started.
Volunteerism is the most exploited labor. 
When labor is free it is wasted.  Pay the people who work at soup kitchens, the "clients" need the money and the self esteem they would get from the work.
The Christmas time volunteers are just trying to assuage their guilt.

Wisely used volunteer labor is fine.  The problem is the volunteer work that is just for show.

A former employer of mine sponsored a day where all 70 of us went to the Ronald McDonald house.  We spent a couple of hours working (we painted a couple of bathrooms, made lunch for the residents, and did some vacuuming) , then ate a catered lunch and went home. Our organization got a ton of pictures for our website so we could brag about how awesome and generous we were.  The amount of money the company paid us to go perform this "volunteer" project was in the mid-five figures.  We could have given the Ronald McDonald house that money and they could have paid people to do the same work for under $1,000.

[GooooMarquette]

Wisely used volunteer labor is fine.  The problem is the volunteer work that is just for show.

A former employer of mine sponsored a day where all 70 of us went to the Ronald McDonald house.  We spent a couple of hours working (we painted a couple of bathrooms, made lunch for the residents, and did some vacuuming) , then ate a catered lunch and went home. Our organization got a ton of pictures for our website so we could brag about how awesome and generous we were.  The amount of money the company paid us to go perform this "volunteer" project was in the mid-five figures.  We could have given the Ronald McDonald house that money and they could have paid people to do the same work for under $1,000.

Agree. I don't do any giving or volunteering through employers; I go directly to the organization closest to those in need and ask what is most important for them and the need they serve. Maximize the benefit.

[jficke13]

This is a bit of a weird diversion. Some volunteerism is good. Some is exploitative. None of that has anything to do with the core of what I was conveying: There was a law firm willing to pay the equivalent of sub-$15/hr (assuming $15/hr = aprx $30k/yr) wages for an attorney. If starting salaries (to say nothing of starting salaries for people carrying a JD* on top of their undergrad) are paying less than a decent retail wage, well, the world shouldn't be too terribly surprised when those graduates don't shake out any additional coins for their alma mater.

Don't get me started on the completely borked labor market for attorneys. $29k/yr is an outlier, but still that it was on offer (and accepted by someone) is less than ideal.

[GooooMarquette]

Don't get me started on the completely borked labor market for attorneys. $29k/yr is an outlier, but still that it was on offer (and accepted by someone) is less than ideal.

Totally agree on that. Get into a large firm or top company, and you will be making $150k+ before long. But there are a ton of people who go on their own, join a small firm, do public interest or nonprofit law, and are probably making less than my daughter who has a bachelors degree in journalism.

I also know a ton of lawyers who are currently doing paralegal or contract management work (no JD required) because there aren’t any suitable attorney jobs available. And this is not a Covid-related thing; it has been going on for years.

A very feast-or-famine market....

[jficke13]

Totally agree on that. Get into a large firm or top company, and you will be making $150k+ before long. But there are a ton of people who go on their own, join a small firm, do public interest or nonprofit law, and are probably making less than my daughter who has a bachelors degree in journalism.

I also know a ton of lawyers who are currently doing paralegal or contract management work (no JD required) because there aren’t any suitable attorney jobs available. And this is not a Covid-related thing; it has been going on for years.

A very feast-or-famine market....

It's a purely bi-modal salary distribution. Huge spike at like $40-50k starting --- virtually no jobs at starting salaries in this portion of the distribution --- smaller tighter spike around $115k ($160k in NYC). The idea that "lawyer" is a ticket to an upper middle class or upper class life is... uh... shall we say outdated?

[Eldon]

It's a purely bi-modal salary distribution. Huge spike at like $40-50k starting --- virtually no jobs at starting salaries in this portion of the distribution --- smaller tighter spike around $115k ($160k in NYC). The idea that "lawyer" is a ticket to an upper middle class or upper class life is... uh... shall we say outdated?

Do you think that's true for pretty much all law schools?

[vogue65]

Wisely used volunteer labor is fine.  The problem is the volunteer work that is just for show.

A former employer of mine sponsored a day where all 70 of us went to the Ronald McDonald house.  We spent a couple of hours working (we painted a couple of bathrooms, made lunch for the residents, and did some vacuuming) , then ate a catered lunch and went home. Our organization got a ton of pictures for our website so we could brag about how awesome and generous we were.  The amount of money the company paid us to go perform this "volunteer" project was in the mid-five figures.  We could have given the Ronald McDonald house that money and they could have paid people to do the same work for under $1,000.

Well said, my point and experience exactly.
Non-profits have turned into business opportunities.
Now there are hundreds of thousands of them. 
Local churches fly to Africa or Central America to "work on" building a church.  It has to do with congregation building at home, a photo op., and feel good bonding.   
A far cry from the French Jesuits on the St. Lawrence in the 1600's.

[jficke13]

Do you think that's true for pretty much all law schools?

Yes. The amplitude of the spikes may change a bit though. Harvard will have a higher spike on the high end and Marquette will have a higher spike on the low end.

For example something like the top 10% of my class at MU got into those high paying jobs. The proportion of a class at Harvard that go to the high paying jobs is probably greater than 10%.

Harvard will also have non-attorney jobs cluttering the data, but for practicing lawyers there’s a bimodal distribution and a few outliers, period.

[muwarrior69]

I was curious, so I checked the math on that.  $9500/year in 1969 is worth $68,900 today.

https://www.inflationtool.com/us-dollar/1969-to-present-value?amount=9500

Well, I'm not so scientific just anecdotal. Back in '69 here in New Jersey gasoline was between 24 and 32 cents per gallon, today between 2.25 and 2.50 per gallon. You could purchase a nice home between 20 and 60 K, today 200 to 600k and a new car between 2 to 5k and today between 20 and 50K. All about 10x difference. That aside how many grads with just a BS or BA are making 70k right out of school?

[GooooMarquette]

Yes. The amplitude of the spikes may change a bit though. Harvard will have a higher spike on the high end and Marquette will have a higher spike on the low end.

For example something like the top 10% of my class at MU got into those high paying jobs. The proportion of a class at Harvard that go to the high paying jobs is probably greater than 10%.

Harvard will also have non-attorney jobs cluttering the data, but for practicing lawyers there’s a bimodal distribution and a few outliers, period.

Agreed.

I went to a law school ranked in the top 15-20 per most rankings, so the percentage who got 'top-tier' jobs was high...but certainly not 100%. If I had to guess, I'd say it was ~66%, with the other ~33% spread between mid-level jobs, and people struggling to get a footing in a legal career. Harvard or Yale probably would have 80%+ with top-tier jobs.

Once you get beyond the top 25 or 30 schools, the number of grads who get into the top jobs goes down pretty quickly, but it rarely goes to zero. I know people from William Mitchell Law School who are highly successful.

[muwarrior69]

My BS in Biomedical Science got me a job in a lab at under 40k in '06.  Sure the benes were good, but that was the pay.

It is just really sad that alums like you fork out so much for an education and don't see the return upon graduation. I am sure your fortunes have improved since your first job and wish you the best in your career. The problem I found with lab jobs is that they kind of peg you into a particular discipline and it becomes difficult to find another position with that skill set and work experience which is why I really worked hard to find an opportunity in human clinical trials. I started out in data management and then was offered a job as a manager conducting clinical trials. I eventually landed a position in pharmacovigilence monitoring the safety of both research and marketed products. I am 74 and i still get emails from recruiters looking at my 12 year old CV asking if I would be interested in a six month consulting job as my skills are still relevant. I was also lucky that my home state of New Jersey is headquarters for J&J and Merck. Pfizer and Bristol Myer Squibb also have a big foot print in the state.

[4everwarriors]

Not all law schools are created equal. Ya gotta graduate from a top 20 school, (rankin's due matta) to score the initial big paycheck. That also translates to having a high undergrad gpa and high LSAT scores. Truth be told, MU's law school dropped into Tier 3 for a while. Might be ok when looking for a job in WI, But, that won't cut it when competing with graduates from Harvard, Yale, Stanford, or Northwestern. Spoiler alert:  UW Law>MU Law, just a fact.
On the contrary, while medical and dental schools differ also, residency programs and career jobs, don't really care where your degree is from, hey?