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Author Topic: More Ominous Signs for College Sports  (Read 31252 times)

pbiflyer

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Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
« Reply #50 on: July 09, 2020, 12:08:34 PM »
They keep talking about starting sports and other things in January. What exactly is going to change between now and them that will enable that?
No shutdowns, no mask mandates, no vaccine, we add in seasonal flu.
How does anyone think January be better than September and sports are any more likely?

Silkk the Shaka

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Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
« Reply #51 on: July 09, 2020, 12:25:16 PM »
Coincidence or not?


Not a coincidence. The concept of collective action for the greater good is lost upon the U.S.

The only think we seem to be able to agree upon in large enough numbers is "I got mine, tough luck for you."

Silkk the Shaka

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Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
« Reply #52 on: July 09, 2020, 12:33:19 PM »
This is kind of ridiculous. People projected in March where we would be today if we did nothing and we are pretty much exactly there. In other countries where they took decisive, nationwide action, they are well ahead and have largely eliminated the spread and deaths. Our own public health officials told us what to do and we didn't do it. They continue to tell us what to do and we aren't doing it and acting confused why it's not going away. We also need a plan that is national, not regional. You can't have different policies and rules across state lines when interstate commerce is vital to our national operations.

A national shutdown with national financial support and universal masking regulations would have changed things radically. We didn't do that, so here we are, and if we continue to not do that, we'll be right here in September and November and February, especially as the latest studies are finding that herd immunity isn't working with this virus because the antibodies don't stay in the body that long and people are subject to being reinfected, especially those that had mild cases the first time around.

Except they initially told us not to wear masks for a very long time (when it was common to do so elsewhere immediately), and then they said we should. So a large portion of people ended up confused and/or skeptical, and now you'll never get the type of compliance needed to stem the tide.

That initial "don't wear a mask" decree from public officials was probably the worst thing to happen in all of this. Tragedy.

brewcity77

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Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
« Reply #53 on: July 09, 2020, 12:38:47 PM »
I largely agree with your post, but I have to object to "did nothing." It's wrong to dismiss the sacrifices the vast majority of people made during those first 6-8 weeks.

It angers me every day that our citizens did what was asked, bought time, and it was squandered.

I should have said we did nothing productive with the time, thank you. The time was completely squandered.

Except they initially told us not to wear masks for a very long time (when it was common to do so elsewhere immediately), and then they said we should. So a large portion of people ended up confused and/or skeptical, and now you'll never get the type of compliance needed to stem the tide.

That initial "don't wear a mask" decree from public officials was probably the worst thing to happen in all of this. Tragedy.

I feel like this is a cop-out excuse and people are still vaguely using it today. We needed one coherent message from the top and it never came. It still isn't coming.

Medical officials have been consistently preaching masks for months now and the message from the White House is basically just to let it run its course and go numb to the tens of thousands (if not hundreds) that will continue to die.
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Billy Hoyle

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Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
« Reply #54 on: July 09, 2020, 12:47:55 PM »
Except they initially told us not to wear masks for a very long time (when it was common to do so elsewhere immediately), and then they said we should. So a large portion of people ended up confused and/or skeptical, and now you'll never get the type of compliance needed to stem the tide.

That initial "don't wear a mask" decree from public officials was probably the worst thing to happen in all of this. Tragedy.

the initial decree from Fauci that the anti-masksers point to was in reference to medical masks and the PPE shortage. He urged people not to acquire them because medical personnel needed them.

https://www.thestreet.com/video/dr-fauci-masks-changing-directive-coronavirus
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Silkk the Shaka

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Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
« Reply #55 on: July 09, 2020, 12:52:00 PM »
I should have said we did nothing productive with the time, thank you. The time was completely squandered.

I feel like this is a cop-out excuse and people are still vaguely using it today. We needed one coherent message from the top and it never came. It still isn't coming.

Medical officials have been consistently preaching masks for months now and the message from the White House is basically just to let it run its course and go numb to the tens of thousands (if not hundreds) that will continue to die.

Agree, bad messaging, hence the confusion. I think we're saying the same thing.

Silkk the Shaka

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Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
« Reply #56 on: July 09, 2020, 12:54:09 PM »
the initial decree from Fauci that the anti-masksers point to was in reference to medical masks and the PPE shortage. He urged people not to acquire them because medical personnel needed them.

https://www.thestreet.com/video/dr-fauci-masks-changing-directive-coronavirus

I'm not saying the anti-maskers are correct. I'm saying terrible/mixed messaging caused people to be skeptical when it should have been encouraged from the jump.

tower912

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Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
« Reply #57 on: July 09, 2020, 12:56:18 PM »
Heisie, the ominous signs for college athletics are merely more symptoms of the same problem.
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GooooMarquette

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Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
« Reply #58 on: July 09, 2020, 12:58:01 PM »

They keep talking about starting sports and other things in January. What exactly is going to change between now and them that will enable that?
No shutdowns, no mask mandates, no vaccine, we add in seasonal flu.
How does anyone think January be better than September and sports are any more likely?



I'm not sure who is the 'they' you're referring to, but the Ivy League is not "talking about starting sports and other things in January." Their press release leaves it a completely open question by stating that: "A decision on the remaining winter and spring sports competition calendar, and on whether fall sport competition would be feasible in the spring, will be determined at a later date."

https://ivyleague.com/news/2020/7/8/general-ivy-league-outlines-intercollegiate-athletics-plans-no-competition-in-fall-semester.aspx

In other words, they aren't promising or predicting anything about the future. They are simply telling people they will decide when they feel they have sufficient information.

As for what might change, the response from Princeton's football coach seems particularly on point. He was asked by the NYT what might allow them to hold football in the spring, and "added that a vaccine, better therapies and people following health guidelines would be necessary if there were any chance of playing in the spring." Seems like a pretty realistic perspective.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/08/sports/ncaafootball/ivy-league-fall-sports-football-coronavirus.html


pbiflyer

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Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
« Reply #59 on: July 09, 2020, 01:47:34 PM »

I'm not sure who is the 'they' you're referring to, but the Ivy League is not "talking about starting sports and other things in January." Their press release leaves it a completely open question by stating that: "A decision on the remaining winter and spring sports competition calendar, and on whether fall sport competition would be feasible in the spring, will be determined at a later date."

https://ivyleague.com/news/2020/7/8/general-ivy-league-outlines-intercollegiate-athletics-plans-no-competition-in-fall-semester.aspx

In other words, they aren't promising or predicting anything about the future. They are simply telling people they will decide when they feel they have sufficient information.

As for what might change, the response from Princeton's football coach seems particularly on point. He was asked by the NYT what might allow them to hold football in the spring, and "added that a vaccine, better therapies and people following health guidelines would be necessary if there were any chance of playing in the spring." Seems like a pretty realistic perspective.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/08/sports/ncaafootball/ivy-league-fall-sports-football-coronavirus.html

We have higher numbers than ever. Why does any reasonable person think that people will suddenly start following those health guidelines?
There is no way in hell a vaccine that is effective enough can be developed and more importantly deployed in time to impact January.  And approximately 40% said they aren't getting vaccinated, so that seems to be a moot point anyway.

It seems like a very unrealistic perspective.

GooooMarquette

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Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
« Reply #60 on: July 09, 2020, 02:08:55 PM »
We have higher numbers than ever. Why does any reasonable person think that people will suddenly start following those health guidelines?
There is no way in hell a vaccine that is effective enough can be developed and more importantly deployed in time to impact January.  And approximately 40% said they aren't getting vaccinated, so that seems to be a moot point anyway.

It seems like a very unrealistic perspective.

I agree it's pretty unrealistic to expect all those things by January. My point was that it is awfully realistic of the Princeton FB coach to recognize those things as prerequisites to spring football.

In terms of the Ivy League Presidents, they have remained neutral, simply saying they will decide later.

Uncle Rico

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Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
« Reply #61 on: July 09, 2020, 02:16:59 PM »
Big 14 expected to announce conference only football season later today per Nicole Auerbach of The Athletic
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Jockey

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Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
« Reply #62 on: July 09, 2020, 02:33:44 PM »
We have higher numbers than ever. Why does any reasonable person think that people will suddenly start following those health guidelines?
There is no way in hell a vaccine that is effective enough can be developed and more importantly deployed in time to impact January.  And approximately 40% said they aren't getting vaccinated, so that seems to be a moot point anyway.

It seems like a very unrealistic perspective.

Because we will hopefully have a prez whose first priority is the safety/health of Americans.

And the new prez will work hand-in-hand with the CDC rather than try to silence them.

Leadership is everything.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2020, 02:37:18 PM by Jockey »

The Sultan of Semantics

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Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
« Reply #63 on: July 09, 2020, 02:35:12 PM »
Coincidence or not?



More of a public heath failing than a healthcare system failing.
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vogue65

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Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
« Reply #64 on: July 09, 2020, 02:49:21 PM »

More of a public heath failing than a healthcare system failing.


What's the difference?  A difference without a distinction?

Or are we saying that the government is the problem and not the solution?

Our system has run aground on the philosophy of antigovernment rhetoric.

Down with regulation and the evil government, each man out for himself. 

The market will decide after the airlines, marginal universities, small business, many hospotals  and  Boeing, all go under.  Great plan, don't let government get in the way.

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Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
« Reply #65 on: July 09, 2020, 03:12:32 PM »
What's the difference?  A difference without a distinction?


The difference is that we really do a good job of taking care of people when they enter the health system.  The costs are clearly a problem, but we do well treating the sick and injured.

But what we don't always do well is socialize the ability to prevent people from getting sick.
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brewcity77

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Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
« Reply #66 on: July 09, 2020, 03:15:00 PM »

More of a public heath failing than a healthcare system failing.

A system built around profit is not designed to redirect itself to widespread basic care. That's why states were bidding against each other for equipment, healthcare workers were being furloughed in a pandemic, and hospitals reinstuted elective surgeries early. Because our healthcare system is more concerned with profit than outcomes.
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Silkk the Shaka

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Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
« Reply #67 on: July 09, 2020, 03:36:40 PM »
A system built around profit is not designed to redirect itself to widespread basic care. That's why states were bidding against each other for equipment, healthcare workers were being furloughed in a pandemic, and hospitals reinstuted elective surgeries early. Because our healthcare system is more concerned with profit than outcomes.


GooooMarquette

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Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
« Reply #68 on: July 09, 2020, 03:38:59 PM »

The difference is that we really do a good job of taking care of people when they enter the health system.  The costs are clearly a problem, but we do well treating the sick and injured.

But what we don't always do well is socialize the ability to prevent people from getting sick.


Well said.

I would further explain for those who don't understand the difference between 'public health' and the 'healthcare system': the primary goal of public health is to monitor and hopefully prevent illness in order to help people avoid the need to enter the healthcare system. We did a crappy job of monitoring and preventing this illness from spreading, but our healthcare system is doing a good job treating patients once they get there.

DienerTime34

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Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
« Reply #69 on: July 09, 2020, 03:56:03 PM »
Does anyone think Marquette will be playing basketball against a non-con in November?

GooooMarquette

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Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
« Reply #70 on: July 09, 2020, 03:58:59 PM »
Does anyone think Marquette will be playing basketball against a non-con in November?


No.

And a second team just got kicked out of the MLS 'bubble' tournament due to multiple COVID cases.

https://www.espn.com/soccer/nashville-sc/story/4131378/nashville-follow-dallaspull-out-of-mls-is-back-tournament-after-coronavirus-tests


THRILLHO

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Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
« Reply #71 on: July 09, 2020, 04:11:16 PM »
A system built around profit is not designed to redirect itself to widespread basic care. That's why states were bidding against each other for equipment, healthcare workers were being furloughed in a pandemic, and hospitals reinstuted elective surgeries early. Because our healthcare system is more concerned with profit than outcomes.

Counter point: a socialized system (which I support) run by incompetent leadership would still do pretty bad. Competence is so important for good government.

pbiflyer

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Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
« Reply #72 on: July 09, 2020, 04:45:01 PM »
Does anyone think Marquette will be playing basketball against a non-con in November?

Or games in December or January or......

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Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
« Reply #73 on: July 09, 2020, 04:54:54 PM »
The difference is that we really do a good job of taking care of people when they enter the health system.  The costs are clearly a problem, but we do well treating the sick and injured.

I suppose it depends on your definition of the word "care". I'd argue that plunging those people into massive, often unrecoverable debt is not "taking care of people." Also, while Emergency Rooms are required to provide care, they do not give the long-term answers and there is no obligation for the system as constructed to provide long-term care beyond emergent care. We are not good at long-term outcomes or care for those without the ability to pay. Further, insurance companies are based on profit margins, which means they are typically doing everything they can to not pay, which puts the onus on those same people, which again diminishes their ability to get proper care, to find services that sustain that care, and to remain financially solvent while doing so.

Counter point: a socialized system (which I support) run by incompetent leadership would still do pretty bad. Competence is so important for good government.

Quite possibly, but as we are currently seeing the worst outcomes to this current pandemic in the first world, I feel it's clearly apparent that a healthcare system that doesn't have healthcare as the primary goal is fundamentally flawed. While incompetent leadership would certainly provide limitations, simply having health-based outcomes rather than corporate profits as the benchmark for a successful system would be a massive step in the right direction.

If you are of enough means to be afforded a quality healthcare plan, then our system can (doesn't always, but can) provide positive outcomes. If you cannot or are on an underfunded government plan, this system is a catastrophic failure. People who cannot pay for care are ignored by the system or repeatedly pushed out of it as fast as the law allows. That is not a model for success.
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Billy Hoyle

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Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
« Reply #74 on: July 09, 2020, 05:38:48 PM »
Or games in December or January or......

January, maybe.  We have time to get things under control for that to happen. Do I have confidence that will happen? No.
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