MUScoop

MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: Not A Serious Person on July 08, 2020, 03:53:11 PM

Title: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: Not A Serious Person on July 08, 2020, 03:53:11 PM
The skies around college sports are getting darker.
(for MU, will basketball have to compete with football next spring?)

First

An open letter to the Stanford community and the Stanford Athletics family | Stanford News
https://news.stanford.edu/2020/07/08/athletics/

In consultation with the Board of Trustees, we have made the decision to reduce the breadth of our athletics programs and staffing. Stanford will discontinue 11 of our varsity sports programs at the conclusion of the 2020-21 academic year: men’s and women’s fencing, field hockey, lightweight rowing, men’s rowing, co-ed and women’s sailing, squash, synchronized swimming, men’s volleyball and wrestling. All of these teams will have the opportunity to compete in their upcoming 2020-21 seasons, should the circumstances surrounding COVID-19 allow it, before they are discontinued at the varsity level. Regretfully, 20 of our support staff positions are being eliminated as part of this realignment.

And it is not like these were fringe sports at Stanford ...

These 11 programs consist of more than 240 incredible student-athletes and 22 dedicated coaches. They were built by more than 4,000 alumni whose contributions led to 20 national championships, 27 Olympic medals, and an untold number of academic and professional achievements. Each of the individuals associated with these programs will forever have a place in Stanford’s history.

Why? Because STANFORD, one the wealthiest schools in the world, does not have the money anymore.

The decision to discontinue these 11 varsity sports programs comes down primarily to finances and competitive excellence. With so many varsity sports and limited financial resources, we would no longer be able to support a world-class athletics experience for our student-athletes without making these changes.

Second

Remember they are D1, and this includes football

Ivy League Cancels All Fall Sports For 2020
https://boston.cbslocal.com/2020/07/08/report-ivy-league-cancel-fall-sports-2020-coronavirus/
The cancellation of Ivy League sports in the fall is significant — particularly for football — but not necessarily an indication that the power-five conferences will follow suit. With different financial implications, big football schools may have more motivation to find ways to play.

At the same time, one anonymous power-five administrator told The Athletic this week that the Ivy League could provide “cover” for other conferences looking to cancel or postpone the 2020 season.


Third

37 Test positive for COVID-19 at UNC-Chapel Hill, Football team to pause workouts temporarily
https://www.wfmynews2.com/article/news/health/coronavirus/37-test-positive-for-covid-19-at-unc-chapel-hill/83-daa8090c-6053-498f-b9dc-b99b862841cc
Campus Health and UNC Hospitals tested 429 of Carolina student-athletes, coaches and staff.
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: Not A Serious Person on July 08, 2020, 04:00:43 PM
Jeff Goodman @GoodmanHoops
38m

Ivy League was ahead of the game when it canceled it’s basketball tournaments.

Now the league won’t have any sports until at least Jan. 1.

Maybe other leagues should pay attention. They are pretty smart over there.

https://twitter.com/GoodmanHoops/status/1280960041185656834?s=20
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on July 08, 2020, 04:02:22 PM
Some think the Ivy League's decision looks hasty right now.  I wonder if we will feel the same way in a month.
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: TallTitan34 on July 08, 2020, 04:16:16 PM
I'm enjoying the TBT because I'm assuming it's the only Marquette basketball we will get this year.
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: GooooMarquette on July 08, 2020, 04:19:20 PM
Some think the Ivy League's decision looks hasty right now.  I wonder if we will feel the same way in a month.


Goodman nailed it - there are a number reasons why the Ivy League is often ahead of the game in things like this...but one is that they have direct access to some of the most experienced and knowledgeable public health experts on earth. I have said it before - I will be very surprised if we have college football and basketball this fall and winter, and I suspect the Ivy League's decision is the beginning of a march to the inevitable.

For those who disagree, just look at sports that are being played in bubbles. TBT tried to keep it small, and they have already sent teams home. And now MLS had to send Dallas packing for multiple positive results.

Now extrapolate that to widespread college sports, playing outside bubbles on their home fields. FBS football has 130 teams, and DI hoops has about 350. It's just unfathomable that they'll find a way to keep teams sufficiently isolated to prevent widespread outbreaks.

It is a financial and public health nightmare, but that's just where we are....
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on July 08, 2020, 04:38:15 PM
I posted this on another board but here is an idea for the BE.

What if the BE set up the season to have two, four team round robin events every weekend at two sites with three teams having a bye. Two games a day on Friday, Saturday and Sunday. Teams could get thirty games (three against every opponent) in over ten weekends, so with byes you are talking probably fourteen or so weeks. Looking at the calendar, if you start Thanksgiving weekend and take the Christmas weekend off, fourteen weeks gets you to the week before the BET. By then maybe thing are better and you can play a full tournament.
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: Stronghold on July 08, 2020, 04:39:25 PM
I heard from a source at a Big Ten school that they are currently considering having just 3 home games and 3 away games.  Something like only being able to travel 600 miles too because I'm assuming they won't be flying anywhere.  Restrictions on attendance.

This person isn't affiliated with the athletic department but runs the food service at the stadium so they have been kept in the loop somewhat.  Nobody hold me to the info just what I heard.
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: Uncle Rico on July 08, 2020, 04:50:15 PM
I heard from a source at a Big Ten school that they are currently considering having just 3 home games and 3 away games.  Something like only being able to travel 600 miles too because I'm assuming they won't be flying anywhere.  Restrictions on attendance.

This person isn't affiliated with the athletic department but runs the food service at the stadium so they have been kept in the loop somewhat.  Nobody hold me to the info just what I heard.

Something similar to this rumor has popped up elsewhere.  Saw on the twitters the Big East might have a conference only season as well, with maybe 3 games against certain opponents
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: Billy Hoyle on July 08, 2020, 04:55:09 PM
many schools are looking into regionalizing schedules. Bussing and no overnight trips if non-conference games are allowed. My former assistant works at U of Denver and based on where they're located they may not be able to get to NCAA minimum D1 contests without D2 and D3 games being allowed to count.
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: forgetful on July 08, 2020, 05:00:13 PM
Third

37 Test positive for COVID-19 at UNC-Chapel Hill, Football team to pause workouts temporarily
https://www.wfmynews2.com/article/news/health/coronavirus/37-test-positive-for-covid-19-at-unc-chapel-hill/83-daa8090c-6053-498f-b9dc-b99b862841cc
Campus Health and UNC Hospitals tested 429 of Carolina student-athletes, coaches and staff.

At the rate some of these schools are reporting positive tests, the entire football teams may have all gotten Covid before the first game would start.
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: Billy Hoyle on July 08, 2020, 05:06:32 PM
At the rate some of these schools are reporting positive tests, the entire football teams may have all gotten Covid before the first game would start.

Which is concerning considering the long-term health effects COVID has on even asymptomatic kids. And, the fact we're seeing spread when athletes are basically in a bubble does not bode well for when the rest of the student body returns.
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on July 08, 2020, 06:23:42 PM
OSU suspends voluntary athletic activities. Not looking good.
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: GooooMarquette on July 08, 2020, 06:35:34 PM
OSU suspends voluntary athletic activities. Not looking good.


Yep. Tick-tock....

https://sports.yahoo.com/ohio-state-suspends-voluntary-workouts-after-covid-19-test-results-232031635.html
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: Herman Cain on July 08, 2020, 06:39:23 PM
The skies around college sports are getting darker.
(for MU, will basketball have to compete with football next spring?)

First

An open letter to the Stanford community and the Stanford Athletics family | Stanford News
https://news.stanford.edu/2020/07/08/athletics/

In consultation with the Board of Trustees, we have made the decision to reduce the breadth of our athletics programs and staffing. Stanford will discontinue 11 of our varsity sports programs at the conclusion of the 2020-21 academic year: men’s and women’s fencing, field hockey, lightweight rowing, men’s rowing, co-ed and women’s sailing, squash, synchronized swimming, men’s volleyball and wrestling. All of these teams will have the opportunity to compete in their upcoming 2020-21 seasons, should the circumstances surrounding COVID-19 allow it, before they are discontinued at the varsity level. Regretfully, 20 of our support staff positions are being eliminated as part of this realignment.

And it is not like these were fringe sports at Stanford ...

These 11 programs consist of more than 240 incredible student-athletes and 22 dedicated coaches. They were built by more than 4,000 alumni whose contributions led to 20 national championships, 27 Olympic medals, and an untold number of academic and professional achievements. Each of the individuals associated with these programs will forever have a place in Stanford’s history.

Why? Because STANFORD, one the wealthiest schools in the world, does not have the money anymore.

The decision to discontinue these 11 varsity sports programs comes down primarily to finances and competitive excellence. With so many varsity sports and limited financial resources, we would no longer be able to support a world-class athletics experience for our student-athletes without making these changes.

Second

Remember they are D1, and this includes football

Ivy League Cancels All Fall Sports For 2020
https://boston.cbslocal.com/2020/07/08/report-ivy-league-cancel-fall-sports-2020-coronavirus/
The cancellation of Ivy League sports in the fall is significant — particularly for football — but not necessarily an indication that the power-five conferences will follow suit. With different financial implications, big football schools may have more motivation to find ways to play.

At the same time, one anonymous power-five administrator told The Athletic this week that the Ivy League could provide “cover” for other conferences looking to cancel or postpone the 2020 season.


Third

37 Test positive for COVID-19 at UNC-Chapel Hill, Football team to pause workouts temporarily
https://www.wfmynews2.com/article/news/health/coronavirus/37-test-positive-for-covid-19-at-unc-chapel-hill/83-daa8090c-6053-498f-b9dc-b99b862841cc
Campus Health and UNC Hospitals tested 429 of Carolina student-athletes, coaches and staff.
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: Not A Serious Person on July 08, 2020, 08:15:44 PM

Goodman nailed it - there are a number reasons why the Ivy League is often ahead of the game in things like this...but one is that they have direct access to some of the most experienced and knowledgeable public health experts on earth. I have said it before - I will be very surprised if we have college football and basketball this fall and winter, and I suspect the Ivy League's decision is the beginning of a march to the inevitable.

The highlighted part triggered me as it perfectly summarizes everything that is wrong with this country in one sentence. 

That is a willingness to accept that "elite experts" have some information they are not sharing with everyone else because that information must be used to benefit the elites first.  Like withholding that COVID information from everyone else but use it to protect their own athletes first and hope everyone else gets the "signal" and do the right thing. It's disgusting.

Now that I got that off my chest, here is why the Ivy decision matters ....

The ivies do not run their sports programs for profit.  They have them to allow their student/athlete (they have no scholarships) to achieve excellence.  In other words, their athletic departments are not driven by profits.

So, the ivies are saying if the profit motive is removed, all fall seasons should be canceled.

All the suggestions like ...

I heard from a source at a Big Ten school that they are currently considering having just 3 home games and 3 away games.  Something like only being able to travel 600 miles too because I'm assuming they won't be flying anywhere.  Restrictions on attendance.

and ...

What if the BE set up the season to have two, four team round robin events every weekend at two sites with three teams having a bye. Two games a day on Friday, Saturday and Sunday. Teams could get thirty games (three against every opponent) in over ten weekends, so with byes you are talking probably fourteen or so weeks. Looking at the calendar, if you start Thanksgiving weekend and take the Christmas weekend off, fourteen weeks gets you to the week before the BET. By then maybe thing are better and you can play a full tournament.

In other words, we are seeking to do the MINIMUM possible so schools can maximize the number of games and profit.
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on July 08, 2020, 08:18:46 PM
Heisenberg in this case I think they are sharing the info with everyone.  I think Goooo was implying the leadership listens to them. 
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: jesmu84 on July 08, 2020, 08:33:36 PM
Does all this imply that universities don't really care about giving kids the opportunity to pursue a college degree and really only care about the profit? Granted, finances drive the bus. But we're talking about some of the universities with the largest endowments.

And they're choosing to remove scholarships/opportunities for those who might not have another way into the school.
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: marquette20 on July 08, 2020, 08:35:33 PM
Impossible to create a bubble like the professional leagues have done for college too. Even in profitable sports there’s not enough money from TV to justify renting out entire hotels for extended periods of time. Colleges rely a lot more on ticket sales for budgets then TV money.
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: oldwarrior81 on July 08, 2020, 08:36:06 PM
with Stanford dropping lightweight rowing, I wonder who becomes the NCAA favorite.
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on July 08, 2020, 08:36:35 PM
The highlighted part triggered me as it perfectly summarizes everything that is wrong with this country in one sentence. 

That is a willingness to accept that "elite experts" have some information they are not sharing with everyone else because that information must be used to benefit the elites first.  Like withholding that COVID information from everyone else but use it to protect their own athletes first and hope everyone else gets the "signal" and do the right thing. It's disgusting.

Now that I got that off my chest, here is why the Ivy decision matters ....

The ivies do not run their sports programs for profit.  They have them to allow their student/athlete (they have no scholarships) to achieve excellence.  In other words, their athletic departments are not driven by profits.

So, the ivies are saying if the profit motive is removed, all fall seasons should be canceled.

All the suggestions like ...

and ...

In other words, we are seeking to do the MINIMUM possible so schools can maximize the number of games and profit.

Experts have been sharing the information for months. Many have poo-pooed it, insulted the messenger, blamed it on politics, and now ignore it.

And that’s just the President.

Seriously if you think the Ivies have been withholding information, you haven’t been paying attention.
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: GooooMarquette on July 08, 2020, 08:43:56 PM
Heisenberg in this case I think they are sharing the info with everyone.  I think Goooo was implying the leadership listens to them.


Bingo. Their experts are putting tons of info out there, but the Presidents of the Ivies actually read it and follow the recommendations.
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: Big Papi on July 08, 2020, 09:35:38 PM
Does all this imply that universities don't really care about giving kids the opportunity to pursue a college degree and really only care about the profit? Granted, finances drive the bus. But we're talking about some of the universities with the largest endowments.

And they're choosing to remove scholarships/opportunities for those who might not have another way into the school.

Yup.  They have over 27 billion dollars in endowments and they feel compelled to cut sports that don't generate any revenue.  Stay classy Stanford.
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: Dawson Rental on July 08, 2020, 09:37:25 PM
with Stanford dropping lightweight rowing, I wonder who becomes the NCAA favorite.

How many promising job interviews ended with, "I see you were on the men's rowing team."  "No, actually I was on the lightweight rowing team."  "Oh..."
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: Dawson Rental on July 08, 2020, 09:40:37 PM
Yup.  They have over 27 billion dollars in endowments and they feel compelled to cut sports that don't generate any revenue.  Stay classy Stanford.

Very short-sighted.  With 2 sailing teams and both fencing teams getting dropped, how many of the royal families of Europe will still consider sending their progeny there?
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: Shooter McGavin on July 08, 2020, 09:47:54 PM
with Stanford dropping lightweight rowing, I wonder who becomes the NCAA favorite.

That is F’n funny.  Spit my drink out.
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: forgetful on July 08, 2020, 10:32:58 PM
Does all this imply that universities don't really care about giving kids the opportunity to pursue a college degree and really only care about the profit? Granted, finances drive the bus. But we're talking about some of the universities with the largest endowments.

And they're choosing to remove scholarships/opportunities for those who might not have another way into the school.

They are honoring all scholarships. They are committed to the educational mission, they just can't afford all the extraneous costs associated with the sports. That means they are prioritizing the funds for their educational mission. So I would argue that it is the exact opposite of what you are suggesting. These sports were always net losers on the money side. With the financial effects of COVID, they simply cannot justify diverting more educational dollars to athletics.

"We will honor all existing athletics scholarship commitments to the student-athletes throughout their undergraduate experiences at Stanford, and we hope they choose to remain on The Farm and earn their Stanford degrees. Should any student choose to continue their collegiate athletics career elsewhere, however, we will support them in every way possible."
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: GooooMarquette on July 08, 2020, 11:00:16 PM
And now it’s happening at UW@Madison

https://mobile.twitter.com/cnn/status/1281073357123923971?s=12

The University of Wisconsin athletic department has announced that more student-athletes have tested positive for Covid-19 since the school’s initial round of testing a month ago
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: GooooMarquette on July 08, 2020, 11:23:57 PM
And 37 test positive at UNC, so voluntary football workouts paused.

https://www.newsobserver.com/sports/college/acc/unc/article244092037.html

Dominos are falling, folks....
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: Jockey on July 08, 2020, 11:38:30 PM
And 37 test positive at UNC, so voluntary football workouts paused.

https://www.newsobserver.com/sports/college/acc/unc/article244092037.html

Dominos are falling, folks....

I  think this is what most of us expected - except for the low IQ fools who think Covid will be gone in 2-3 weeks.

Magically.
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: forgetful on July 08, 2020, 11:43:56 PM
I've asked this on other threads. But how many of these "positive tests" are true positives, vs. false positives.

MLB found 66 positive tests, but they tested 3740. That is a positive test rate of 1.8%. That is within the range of false positives observed in most testing platforms. My expectation is that a lot of these positive tests in sports, are really false positive results.

That complicates the whole process a bit, as they really should be double testing every individual.
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: GooooMarquette on July 09, 2020, 12:04:20 AM
I've asked this on other threads. But how many of these "positive tests" are true positives, vs. false positives.

MLB found 66 positive tests, but they tested 3740. That is a positive test rate of 1.8%. That is within the range of false positives observed in most testing platforms. My expectation is that a lot of these positive tests in sports, are really false positive results.

That complicates the whole process a bit, as they really should be double testing every individual.


Given the fact that pro teams and big-time college sports programs have a boatload of money on the line, I’d be awfully surprised if they aren’t repeating the tests on anyone who tests positive. If they aren’t, they certainly should be.

And then there is the question of false negatives....
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: 79Warrior on July 09, 2020, 12:21:54 AM

CFB will be a spring sport. March to June. CBB highly unlikely to have a full season. Maybe conference schedule only. Don’t hold your breath.

Baltimore Ravens limiting capacity to 14k in an outdoor stadium. Who thinks fans will be indoors at CBB games???

No matter how you slice it, the situation is not good for sports this year.
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: Not A Serious Person on July 09, 2020, 06:43:53 AM

Bingo. Their experts are putting tons of info out there, but the Presidents of the Ivies actually read it and follow the recommendations.

So they are the enlightened and rest of us are mere mouth-breathers ... just like the elite think.
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: Not A Serious Person on July 09, 2020, 06:48:16 AM
Yup.  They have over 27 billion dollars in endowments and they feel compelled to cut sports that don't generate any revenue.  Stay classy Stanford.

Seems like they have been way more than classy ....

The financial model supporting 36 varsity sports is not sustainable. The average Division I athletics program sponsors 18 varsity sports. In fact, only one university at the Division I FBS level sponsored more varsity sports than Stanford prior to this change, and that institution does so with a significantly larger budget. Many of our peers at the Power Five level are supported by budgets that are much larger than ours while operating far fewer sports. Stanford’s more than 850 varsity student-athletes today represent 12% of our undergraduate population, a far higher percentage than exists at nearly all of our peer institutions.
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: Not A Serious Person on July 09, 2020, 06:52:06 AM
CFB will be a spring sport. March to June. CBB highly unlikely to have a full season. Maybe conference schedule only. Don’t hold your breath.

Baltimore Ravens limiting capacity to 14k in an outdoor stadium. Who thinks fans will be indoors at CBB games???

No matter how you slice it, the situation is not good for sports this year.

That is not going to work, hundreds of seniors and other draft-eligible players will skip the season for the April draft (assuming the draft is in April).

This will devastate the top programs.  Trevor Lawrence will not play, 15 players from Alabama (their best) will not play, and on and on and on.

Jan to March might get them to play, to showcase for the April draft.  Basketball will be March to June.
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on July 09, 2020, 07:11:14 AM
Seems like they have been way more than classy ....

The financial model supporting 36 varsity sports is not sustainable. The average Division I athletics program sponsors 18 varsity sports. In fact, only one university at the Division I FBS level sponsored more varsity sports than Stanford prior to this change, and that institution does so with a significantly larger budget. Many of our peers at the Power Five level are supported by budgets that are much larger than ours while operating far fewer sports. Stanford’s more than 850 varsity student-athletes today represent 12% of our undergraduate population, a far higher percentage than exists at nearly all of our peer institutions.


Furthermore, the endowments Stanford has in place likely support other programs, scholarships, etc.  And they have been set up that way by donors.  I doubt much of that money is fungible.
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: MUDPT on July 09, 2020, 07:17:40 AM
I've asked this on other threads. But how many of these "positive tests" are true positives, vs. false positives.

MLB found 66 positive tests, but they tested 3740. That is a positive test rate of 1.8%. That is within the range of false positives observed in most testing platforms. My expectation is that a lot of these positive tests in sports, are really false positive results.

That complicates the whole process a bit, as they really should be double testing every individual.

1.6% is around the percent that the experts believe is the total affected in the US. I believe I read somewhere that MLB is testing their positives every other day.
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: Uncle Rico on July 09, 2020, 07:21:09 AM
That is not going to work, hundreds of seniors and other draft-eligible players will skip the season for the April draft (assuming the draft is in April).

This will devastate the top programs.  Trevor Lawrence will not play, 15 players from Alabama (their best) will not play, and on and on and on.

Jan to March might get them to play, to showcase for the April draft.  Basketball will be March to June.

This is correct.  I think the best case scenario for college football will be league play only and probably within divisions to mitigate travel.  Even that, I feel seems unlikely
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: Hards Alumni on July 09, 2020, 07:21:22 AM
So they are the enlightened and rest of us are mere mouth-breathers ... just like the elite think.

If you don't think there is a large segment of the population that are mouth breathers, you're oxygen deprived.
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on July 09, 2020, 07:33:45 AM
Jan to March might get them to play, to showcase for the April draft.  Basketball will be March to June.


So what is going to change to allow college sports simply to be pushed back?

Our national policy right now seems to be "hope and pray for a vaccine."  And if we don't have a reasonably functional one by January, we aren't going to have college sports then either.

Yes, Europe gets to have soccer.  But even "poor" western European countries like Spain, Portugal and Italy are handling this WAY better than the United States is right now.  And they still have sports teams in a bubble and stands with no fans.

You always think you will have the luxury of time, but if you don't do anything but try and toss a hail mary with that time, it doesn't really matter how much time you have.
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on July 09, 2020, 08:11:45 AM
I've asked this on other threads. But how many of these "positive tests" are true positives, vs. false positives.

MLB found 66 positive tests, but they tested 3740. That is a positive test rate of 1.8%. That is within the range of false positives observed in most testing platforms. My expectation is that a lot of these positive tests in sports, are really false positive results.

That complicates the whole process a bit, as they really should be double testing every individual.

Someone who knows more than me can correct if necessary.  I thought a positive test result was definitive but a negative test result can still mean you have Coronavirus.   
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: GooooMarquette on July 09, 2020, 08:33:05 AM
So they are the enlightened and rest of us are mere mouth-breathers ... just like the elite think.


Speak for yourself. I didn't go to an Ivy and don't work at one, but I have the common sense to pay attention to what their experts say.
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: tower912 on July 09, 2020, 09:15:11 AM
Listening to and following the science, data, and experts shouldn't be political.

Some educational leaders are looking and listening and choosing what they see as the safe route.   
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: GoldenWarrior11 on July 09, 2020, 09:45:17 AM
Listening to and following the science, data, and experts shouldn't be political.

Some educational leaders are looking and listening and choosing what they see as the safe route.

It's much deeper than that.  We are already seeing the "political" effects from schools announcing that their are moving towards online learning for the Fall.  The reality is that the financial component is a very serious hurdle to everything going on right now with COVID.  It's easy to argue, in the name of health and safety, to not hold in-person classes this Fall, and to not have athletics this year.  However, committing to such a path loses a substantial amount of money for schools, which translates to teachers and professors, which translates to campus workers, which also translates to the amount of students a school could conceivably attract once this is all over.  There is zero doubt in my mind that there will be schools that will not survive this, which is very unfortunate.

Everything right now is a lose/lose proposition, unfortunately.  Every solution inevitably creates three additional problems.  I personally believe our social frustrations with the situation at hand is cause for many conversations and debates to turn political.  We all need someone or something to blame. 

It's not ideal, but institutions and organizations literally need to take everything day-by-day and week-by week.  Projecting what things could look like in September or November or February is a waste of time; things have radically (and not so radically) changed since March - and no one could have predicted where things would specifically be today.  Everyone just needs to be patient and enjoy whatever form of education and sports we do get this year (because, honestly, we did not have any of them in Spring and early Summer). 
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on July 09, 2020, 09:52:23 AM
Sorry but taking everything day-by-day and week-by-week is how we have gotten where we are right now.  We need a LONG TERM plan that individuals, businesses, and government entities can plan around.
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: wadesworld on July 09, 2020, 10:04:13 AM
Sorry but taking everything day-by-day and week-by-week is how we have gotten where we are right now.  We need a LONG TERM plan that individuals, businesses, and government entities can plan around.

Yup.  It's why the USA, the country that is supposed to be a world leader, has fallen way, way behind in the response to covid.
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: brewcity77 on July 09, 2020, 10:41:56 AM
It's not ideal, but institutions and organizations literally need to take everything day-by-day and week-by week.  Projecting what things could look like in September or November or February is a waste of time; things have radically (and not so radically) changed since March - and no one could have predicted where things would specifically be today.  Everyone just needs to be patient and enjoy whatever form of education and sports we do get this year (because, honestly, we did not have any of them in Spring and early Summer).

This is kind of ridiculous. People projected in March where we would be today if we did nothing and we are pretty much exactly there. In other countries where they took decisive, nationwide action, they are well ahead and have largely eliminated the spread and deaths. Our own public health officials told us what to do and we didn't do it. They continue to tell us what to do and we aren't doing it and acting confused why it's not going away. We also need a plan that is national, not regional. You can't have different policies and rules across state lines when interstate commerce is vital to our national operations.

A national shutdown with national financial support and universal masking regulations would have changed things radically. We didn't do that, so here we are, and if we continue to not do that, we'll be right here in September and November and February, especially as the latest studies are finding that herd immunity isn't working with this virus because the antibodies don't stay in the body that long and people are subject to being reinfected, especially those that had mild cases the first time around.
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: MUfan12 on July 09, 2020, 11:06:28 AM
This is kind of ridiculous. People projected in March where we would be today if we did nothing and we are pretty much exactly there.

I largely agree with your post, but I have to object to "did nothing." It's wrong to dismiss the sacrifices the vast majority of people made during those first 6-8 weeks.

It angers me every day that our citizens did what was asked, bought time, and it was squandered.
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: Spotcheck Billy on July 09, 2020, 11:16:42 AM
This is kind of ridiculous. People projected in March where we would be today if we did nothing and we are pretty much exactly there. In other countries where they took decisive, nationwide action, they are well ahead and have largely eliminated the spread and deaths. Our own public health officials told us what to do and we didn't do it. They continue to tell us what to do and we aren't doing it and acting confused why it's not going away. We also need a plan that is national, not regional. You can't have different policies and rules across state lines when interstate commerce is vital to our national operations.

A national shutdown with national financial support and universal masking regulations would have changed things radically. We didn't do that, so here we are, and if we continue to not do that, we'll be right here in September and November and February, especially as the latest studies are finding that herd immunity isn't working with this virus because the antibodies don't stay in the body that long and people are subject to being reinfected, especially those that had mild cases the first time around.

Coincidence or not?
(https://www.commondreams.org/sites/default/files/styles/cd_large/public/headlines/cdc.jpeg?itok=CEyLc2uP)
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: Hards Alumni on July 09, 2020, 12:00:57 PM
Coincidence or not?
(https://www.commondreams.org/sites/default/files/styles/cd_large/public/headlines/cdc.jpeg?itok=CEyLc2uP)

A vast oversimplification.
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: pbiflyer on July 09, 2020, 12:08:34 PM
They keep talking about starting sports and other things in January. What exactly is going to change between now and them that will enable that?
No shutdowns, no mask mandates, no vaccine, we add in seasonal flu.
How does anyone think January be better than September and sports are any more likely?
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: Silkk the Shaka on July 09, 2020, 12:25:16 PM
Coincidence or not?
(https://www.commondreams.org/sites/default/files/styles/cd_large/public/headlines/cdc.jpeg?itok=CEyLc2uP)

Not a coincidence. The concept of collective action for the greater good is lost upon the U.S.

The only think we seem to be able to agree upon in large enough numbers is "I got mine, tough luck for you."
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: Silkk the Shaka on July 09, 2020, 12:33:19 PM
This is kind of ridiculous. People projected in March where we would be today if we did nothing and we are pretty much exactly there. In other countries where they took decisive, nationwide action, they are well ahead and have largely eliminated the spread and deaths. Our own public health officials told us what to do and we didn't do it. They continue to tell us what to do and we aren't doing it and acting confused why it's not going away. We also need a plan that is national, not regional. You can't have different policies and rules across state lines when interstate commerce is vital to our national operations.

A national shutdown with national financial support and universal masking regulations would have changed things radically. We didn't do that, so here we are, and if we continue to not do that, we'll be right here in September and November and February, especially as the latest studies are finding that herd immunity isn't working with this virus because the antibodies don't stay in the body that long and people are subject to being reinfected, especially those that had mild cases the first time around.

Except they initially told us not to wear masks for a very long time (when it was common to do so elsewhere immediately), and then they said we should. So a large portion of people ended up confused and/or skeptical, and now you'll never get the type of compliance needed to stem the tide.

That initial "don't wear a mask" decree from public officials was probably the worst thing to happen in all of this. Tragedy.
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: brewcity77 on July 09, 2020, 12:38:47 PM
I largely agree with your post, but I have to object to "did nothing." It's wrong to dismiss the sacrifices the vast majority of people made during those first 6-8 weeks.

It angers me every day that our citizens did what was asked, bought time, and it was squandered.

I should have said we did nothing productive with the time, thank you. The time was completely squandered.

Except they initially told us not to wear masks for a very long time (when it was common to do so elsewhere immediately), and then they said we should. So a large portion of people ended up confused and/or skeptical, and now you'll never get the type of compliance needed to stem the tide.

That initial "don't wear a mask" decree from public officials was probably the worst thing to happen in all of this. Tragedy.

I feel like this is a cop-out excuse and people are still vaguely using it today. We needed one coherent message from the top and it never came. It still isn't coming.

Medical officials have been consistently preaching masks for months now and the message from the White House is basically just to let it run its course and go numb to the tens of thousands (if not hundreds) that will continue to die.
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: Billy Hoyle on July 09, 2020, 12:47:55 PM
Except they initially told us not to wear masks for a very long time (when it was common to do so elsewhere immediately), and then they said we should. So a large portion of people ended up confused and/or skeptical, and now you'll never get the type of compliance needed to stem the tide.

That initial "don't wear a mask" decree from public officials was probably the worst thing to happen in all of this. Tragedy.

the initial decree from Fauci that the anti-masksers point to was in reference to medical masks and the PPE shortage. He urged people not to acquire them because medical personnel needed them.

https://www.thestreet.com/video/dr-fauci-masks-changing-directive-coronavirus
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: Silkk the Shaka on July 09, 2020, 12:52:00 PM
I should have said we did nothing productive with the time, thank you. The time was completely squandered.

I feel like this is a cop-out excuse and people are still vaguely using it today. We needed one coherent message from the top and it never came. It still isn't coming.

Medical officials have been consistently preaching masks for months now and the message from the White House is basically just to let it run its course and go numb to the tens of thousands (if not hundreds) that will continue to die.

Agree, bad messaging, hence the confusion. I think we're saying the same thing.
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: Silkk the Shaka on July 09, 2020, 12:54:09 PM
the initial decree from Fauci that the anti-masksers point to was in reference to medical masks and the PPE shortage. He urged people not to acquire them because medical personnel needed them.

https://www.thestreet.com/video/dr-fauci-masks-changing-directive-coronavirus

I'm not saying the anti-maskers are correct. I'm saying terrible/mixed messaging caused people to be skeptical when it should have been encouraged from the jump.
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: tower912 on July 09, 2020, 12:56:18 PM
Heisie, the ominous signs for college athletics are merely more symptoms of the same problem.
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: GooooMarquette on July 09, 2020, 12:58:01 PM

They keep talking about starting sports and other things in January. What exactly is going to change between now and them that will enable that?
No shutdowns, no mask mandates, no vaccine, we add in seasonal flu.
How does anyone think January be better than September and sports are any more likely?



I'm not sure who is the 'they' you're referring to, but the Ivy League is not "talking about starting sports and other things in January." Their press release leaves it a completely open question by stating that: "A decision on the remaining winter and spring sports competition calendar, and on whether fall sport competition would be feasible in the spring, will be determined at a later date."

https://ivyleague.com/news/2020/7/8/general-ivy-league-outlines-intercollegiate-athletics-plans-no-competition-in-fall-semester.aspx

In other words, they aren't promising or predicting anything about the future. They are simply telling people they will decide when they feel they have sufficient information.

As for what might change, the response from Princeton's football coach seems particularly on point. He was asked by the NYT what might allow them to hold football in the spring, and "added that a vaccine, better therapies and people following health guidelines would be necessary if there were any chance of playing in the spring." Seems like a pretty realistic perspective.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/08/sports/ncaafootball/ivy-league-fall-sports-football-coronavirus.html

Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: pbiflyer on July 09, 2020, 01:47:34 PM

I'm not sure who is the 'they' you're referring to, but the Ivy League is not "talking about starting sports and other things in January." Their press release leaves it a completely open question by stating that: "A decision on the remaining winter and spring sports competition calendar, and on whether fall sport competition would be feasible in the spring, will be determined at a later date."

https://ivyleague.com/news/2020/7/8/general-ivy-league-outlines-intercollegiate-athletics-plans-no-competition-in-fall-semester.aspx

In other words, they aren't promising or predicting anything about the future. They are simply telling people they will decide when they feel they have sufficient information.

As for what might change, the response from Princeton's football coach seems particularly on point. He was asked by the NYT what might allow them to hold football in the spring, and "added that a vaccine, better therapies and people following health guidelines would be necessary if there were any chance of playing in the spring." Seems like a pretty realistic perspective.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/08/sports/ncaafootball/ivy-league-fall-sports-football-coronavirus.html

We have higher numbers than ever. Why does any reasonable person think that people will suddenly start following those health guidelines?
There is no way in hell a vaccine that is effective enough can be developed and more importantly deployed in time to impact January.  And approximately 40% said they aren't getting vaccinated, so that seems to be a moot point anyway.

It seems like a very unrealistic perspective.
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: GooooMarquette on July 09, 2020, 02:08:55 PM
We have higher numbers than ever. Why does any reasonable person think that people will suddenly start following those health guidelines?
There is no way in hell a vaccine that is effective enough can be developed and more importantly deployed in time to impact January.  And approximately 40% said they aren't getting vaccinated, so that seems to be a moot point anyway.

It seems like a very unrealistic perspective.

I agree it's pretty unrealistic to expect all those things by January. My point was that it is awfully realistic of the Princeton FB coach to recognize those things as prerequisites to spring football.

In terms of the Ivy League Presidents, they have remained neutral, simply saying they will decide later.
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: Uncle Rico on July 09, 2020, 02:16:59 PM
Big 14 expected to announce conference only football season later today per Nicole Auerbach of The Athletic
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: Jockey on July 09, 2020, 02:33:44 PM
We have higher numbers than ever. Why does any reasonable person think that people will suddenly start following those health guidelines?
There is no way in hell a vaccine that is effective enough can be developed and more importantly deployed in time to impact January.  And approximately 40% said they aren't getting vaccinated, so that seems to be a moot point anyway.

It seems like a very unrealistic perspective.

Because we will hopefully have a prez whose first priority is the safety/health of Americans.

And the new prez will work hand-in-hand with the CDC rather than try to silence them.

Leadership is everything.
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on July 09, 2020, 02:35:12 PM
Coincidence or not?
(https://www.commondreams.org/sites/default/files/styles/cd_large/public/headlines/cdc.jpeg?itok=CEyLc2uP)


More of a public heath failing than a healthcare system failing.
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: vogue65 on July 09, 2020, 02:49:21 PM

More of a public heath failing than a healthcare system failing.


What's the difference?  A difference without a distinction?

Or are we saying that the government is the problem and not the solution?

Our system has run aground on the philosophy of antigovernment rhetoric.

Down with regulation and the evil government, each man out for himself. 

The market will decide after the airlines, marginal universities, small business, many hospotals  and  Boeing, all go under.  Great plan, don't let government get in the way.
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on July 09, 2020, 03:12:32 PM
What's the difference?  A difference without a distinction?


The difference is that we really do a good job of taking care of people when they enter the health system.  The costs are clearly a problem, but we do well treating the sick and injured.

But what we don't always do well is socialize the ability to prevent people from getting sick.
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: brewcity77 on July 09, 2020, 03:15:00 PM

More of a public heath failing than a healthcare system failing.

A system built around profit is not designed to redirect itself to widespread basic care. That's why states were bidding against each other for equipment, healthcare workers were being furloughed in a pandemic, and hospitals reinstuted elective surgeries early. Because our healthcare system is more concerned with profit than outcomes.
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: Silkk the Shaka on July 09, 2020, 03:36:40 PM
A system built around profit is not designed to redirect itself to widespread basic care. That's why states were bidding against each other for equipment, healthcare workers were being furloughed in a pandemic, and hospitals reinstuted elective surgeries early. Because our healthcare system is more concerned with profit than outcomes.

(https://media1.tenor.com/images/bf9e41a0e68afc8e0f866dd2fb792631/tenor.gif?itemid=6158444)
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: GooooMarquette on July 09, 2020, 03:38:59 PM

The difference is that we really do a good job of taking care of people when they enter the health system.  The costs are clearly a problem, but we do well treating the sick and injured.

But what we don't always do well is socialize the ability to prevent people from getting sick.


Well said.

I would further explain for those who don't understand the difference between 'public health' and the 'healthcare system': the primary goal of public health is to monitor and hopefully prevent illness in order to help people avoid the need to enter the healthcare system. We did a crappy job of monitoring and preventing this illness from spreading, but our healthcare system is doing a good job treating patients once they get there.
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: DienerTime34 on July 09, 2020, 03:56:03 PM
Does anyone think Marquette will be playing basketball against a non-con in November?
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: GooooMarquette on July 09, 2020, 03:58:59 PM
Does anyone think Marquette will be playing basketball against a non-con in November?


No.

And a second team just got kicked out of the MLS 'bubble' tournament due to multiple COVID cases.

https://www.espn.com/soccer/nashville-sc/story/4131378/nashville-follow-dallaspull-out-of-mls-is-back-tournament-after-coronavirus-tests

Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: THRILLHO on July 09, 2020, 04:11:16 PM
A system built around profit is not designed to redirect itself to widespread basic care. That's why states were bidding against each other for equipment, healthcare workers were being furloughed in a pandemic, and hospitals reinstuted elective surgeries early. Because our healthcare system is more concerned with profit than outcomes.

Counter point: a socialized system (which I support) run by incompetent leadership would still do pretty bad. Competence is so important for good government.
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: pbiflyer on July 09, 2020, 04:45:01 PM
Does anyone think Marquette will be playing basketball against a non-con in November?

Or games in December or January or......
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: brewcity77 on July 09, 2020, 04:54:54 PM
The difference is that we really do a good job of taking care of people when they enter the health system.  The costs are clearly a problem, but we do well treating the sick and injured.

I suppose it depends on your definition of the word "care". I'd argue that plunging those people into massive, often unrecoverable debt is not "taking care of people." Also, while Emergency Rooms are required to provide care, they do not give the long-term answers and there is no obligation for the system as constructed to provide long-term care beyond emergent care. We are not good at long-term outcomes or care for those without the ability to pay. Further, insurance companies are based on profit margins, which means they are typically doing everything they can to not pay, which puts the onus on those same people, which again diminishes their ability to get proper care, to find services that sustain that care, and to remain financially solvent while doing so.

Counter point: a socialized system (which I support) run by incompetent leadership would still do pretty bad. Competence is so important for good government.

Quite possibly, but as we are currently seeing the worst outcomes to this current pandemic in the first world, I feel it's clearly apparent that a healthcare system that doesn't have healthcare as the primary goal is fundamentally flawed. While incompetent leadership would certainly provide limitations, simply having health-based outcomes rather than corporate profits as the benchmark for a successful system would be a massive step in the right direction.

If you are of enough means to be afforded a quality healthcare plan, then our system can (doesn't always, but can) provide positive outcomes. If you cannot or are on an underfunded government plan, this system is a catastrophic failure. People who cannot pay for care are ignored by the system or repeatedly pushed out of it as fast as the law allows. That is not a model for success.
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: Billy Hoyle on July 09, 2020, 05:38:48 PM
Or games in December or January or......

January, maybe.  We have time to get things under control for that to happen. Do I have confidence that will happen? No.
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: GooooMarquette on July 09, 2020, 06:29:27 PM
January, maybe.  We have time to get things under control for that to happen. Do I have confidence that will happen? No.


Agreed.

If everybody in the country began wearing a mask today every single time they are in contact with non-immediate family members, we might have a chance of getting things back under control by early 2021. I don't have confidence that our 'leadership' will require us to go there, or that the American people will go there voluntarily.
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: wadesworld on July 09, 2020, 08:25:17 PM

Agreed.

If everybody in the country began wearing a mask today every single time they are in contact with non-immediate family members, we might have a chance of getting things back under control by early 2021. I don't have confidence that our 'leadership' will require us to go there, or that the American people will go there voluntarily.

There will be no substantial change until at least January. At least.
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: Shooter McGavin on July 09, 2020, 08:36:02 PM
I  think this is what most of us expected - except for the low IQ fools who think Covid will be gone in 2-3 weeks.

Magically.

What wrong with magical thinking?  It’s part of an early stage of brain development?
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: brewcity77 on July 09, 2020, 08:40:16 PM
What wrong with magical thinking?  It’s part of an early stage of brain development?

Nothing, as long as you're 3 or 4. If you're 30 or 40 or older, then it's a significant problem.
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: GooooMarquette on July 09, 2020, 10:13:24 PM
Nothing, as long as you're 3 or 4. If you're 30 or 40 or older, then it's a significant problem.

I kind of suspect that was Shooter’s point.
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: Shooter McGavin on July 09, 2020, 10:17:30 PM
I kind of suspect that was Shooter’s point.

Bingo
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on July 10, 2020, 09:23:34 AM
What wrong with magical thinking?  It’s part of an early stage of brain development?

Unless that psychic is correct and this Coronavirus just mysteriously disappears at the end of 2020.......
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: Billy Hoyle on July 10, 2020, 11:54:03 AM

Agreed.

If everybody in the country began wearing a mask today every single time they are in contact with non-immediate family members, we might have a chance of getting things back under control by early 2021. I don't have confidence that our 'leadership' will require us to go there, or that the American people will go there voluntarily.

I'm hopeful that the threat of college football being canceled will be enough to motivate the anti-maskers in the South to start wearing masks and taking this seriously, but still realistic enough to know it probably still won't be enough. 
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on July 10, 2020, 12:30:22 PM
I'm hopeful that the threat of college football being canceled will be enough to motivate the anti-maskers in the South to start wearing masks and taking this seriously, but still realistic enough to know it probably still won't be enough. 


It won't be.

https://twitter.com/JasonSCampbell/status/1281420017142321157?s=20
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: Galway Eagle on July 10, 2020, 12:43:16 PM

It won't be.

https://twitter.com/JasonSCampbell/status/1281420017142321157?s=20

Haha people stormed Normandy against the most Objectively evil truly powerful force in a century so let's put a bunch of college kids in danger and potentially ruin their lungs so they can't live out their dreams
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: pbiflyer on July 10, 2020, 01:17:53 PM
Buccaneers Donovan Smith says playing during coronavirus pandemic is not worth the risk
https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/29441083/buccaneers-donovan-smith-says-playing-coronavirus-pandemic-not-worth-risk

 Tampa Bay Buccaneers starting left tackle Donovan Smith, the man responsible for protecting Super Bowl-winning quarterback Tom Brady's blindside, said Friday morning that, "Risking my health, as well as my family's health, does not seem like a risk worth taking" by playing during the coronavirus pandemic.
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: Billy Hoyle on July 10, 2020, 02:20:45 PM

It won't be.

https://twitter.com/JasonSCampbell/status/1281420017142321157?s=20

leave it to Luth Holth to take that stance. The guy against NIL wants to force kids to play during a pandemic for the entertainment of others.
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: vogue65 on July 10, 2020, 06:00:31 PM

Well said.

I would further explain for those who don't understand the difference between 'public health' and the 'healthcare system': the primary goal of public health is to monitor and hopefully prevent illness in order to help people avoid the need to enter the healthcare system. We did a crappy job of monitoring and preventing this illness from spreading, but our healthcare system is doing a good job treating patients once they get there.

The problem is not Trump, not the "healthcare system", it is the American people.  The American people are not compliant, they/we don't care about the common good.

Our ststem is built around ROI, profits, and Wall Street, therefore, doomed to failure.

My wife and I cant get back to Italy.  Why?  Because of the self centered, greedy, fellow Americans,  mostly southern Americans. 

The rest of the world is laughing at us, we with the great for profit healthcare system.  We are over medicated, over tested, over treated and over billed.   The king has no clothes folks.



Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: Daniel on July 10, 2020, 06:06:39 PM
With the current state f affairs, there is no way to fill a stadium - even partially - for a sporting event.   This crap is spreading like wildfire because of carelessness and the nature of the beast.  Our scientists have a battle 9n their hands.  And we are no where near a solution.   Prayers up for that. 
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: Jockey on July 10, 2020, 07:11:09 PM
With the current state f affairs, there is no way to fill a stadium - even partially - for a sporting event.   This crap is spreading like wildfire because of carelessness and the nature of the beast.  Our scientists have a battle 9n their hands.  And we are no where near a solution.   Prayers up for that.

Actually we are getting widespread infections because we have a pro-virus party in charge.
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: pbiflyer on July 10, 2020, 08:38:27 PM
Multiple players opting out of NBA bubble, MLB season, and now maybe the NFL.
Players in bubbles testing positive.
Seasons being shortened.

Drip, drip, drip.
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: GooooMarquette on July 10, 2020, 11:10:59 PM

The problem is not Trump, not the "healthcare system", it is the American people.  The American people are not compliant, they/we don't care about the common good.


I agree that the response of the American people has been a huge disappointment and a big part of our failure. But Trump owns part of that because he is constantly showing the 40% who listen him that he doesn't really believe in masks.
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: Shooter McGavin on July 10, 2020, 11:41:28 PM

I agree that the response of the American people has been a huge disappointment and a big part of our failure. But Trump owns part of that because he is constantly showing the 40% who listen him that he doesn't really believe in masks.

No denying this point.  The most ardent supporters of him would own this (I hope, at least).  It is part of the DNA of those who love him. 

Best thing that could happen would be for Obama to ardently support not wearing masks (wink, wink) and have the Trump supporters finally and reflexively support science/intelligence.

Hood wink of the century. 
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: vogue65 on July 11, 2020, 09:13:17 AM
The reason the Libertarians are so quiet is that you can't defend the indefensable.
Libertarianism is great in theory, in reality you die. 
It is for losers who are contrarians.
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: 4everwarriors on July 11, 2020, 09:23:02 AM
Does anyone think Marquette will be playing basketball against a non-con in November?


Got a bedder shot at nailin' Kate Upton, hey?
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: Mr. Sand-Knit on July 11, 2020, 09:29:49 AM
The problem is not Trump, not the "healthcare system", it is the American people.  The American people are not compliant, they/we don't care about the common good.

Our ststem is built around ROI, profits, and Wall Street, therefore, doomed to failure.

My wife and I cant get back to Italy.  Why?  Because of the self centered, greedy, fellow Americans,  mostly southern Americans. 

The rest of the world is laughing at us, we with the great for profit healthcare system.  We are over medicated, over tested, over treated and over billed.   The king has no clothes folks.

LoL
Blame it on Wall St., what a rube!!  Haven’t you been blaming everything on Wall St. since the late 50’s??
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: vogue65 on July 11, 2020, 09:56:42 AM
LoL
Blame it on Wall St., what a rube!!  Haven’t you been blaming everything on Wall St. since the late 50’s??

Rube here.
Simple question, why does Wall Street run my local hospital?
Simple answer, profit.

Why does Italy have national healthcare.
Because healthcare is a human value, it is the moral ethical thing to do.  As a young doctor from Belgium said to me, it's fair.

Why did corporate America, AKA Wall Street, switch to 401(k) retirement plans?
To transfer risk and create a business opportunity for Wall Street.

There must be a lot of Rubes in Italy/Europe.

BTW, I am invested in stocks and have a very nice retirement thanks in part to Pres. Ronald Reagan.

As we say, the bulls make money, the bears make money, the hogs make none.
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: GoldenWarrior11 on July 11, 2020, 10:07:03 AM
Anyone notice that Purdue and Michigan State took down their football schedules in the past 24 hours?  Not seeing any other B1G teams that have done that.
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: The Lens on July 11, 2020, 11:40:00 AM
Anyone notice that Purdue and Michigan State took down their football schedules in the past 24 hours?  Not seeing any other B1G teams that have done that.

Current schedules showed 9 conference games. The goal now is 10.  So it’s more than likely that schedules will be adjusted beyond simply pulling off the non conf.
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: Billy Hoyle on July 11, 2020, 07:42:49 PM
Current schedules showed 9 conference games. The goal now is 10.  So it’s more than likely that schedules will be adjusted beyond simply pulling off the non conf.

The goal is 10 but dates and opponents are going to be revisited. Shorter trips prioritized.

Some interesting rumblings from people I’ve talked to from within the Big Ten:
-possible home and home meetings
-at least three schools talking about not playing (Rutgers won’t be missed)
-schedules adjusted later in the season based on standings or risk levels.
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: Mr. Sand-Knit on July 11, 2020, 10:27:40 PM
Rube here.
Simple question, why does Wall Street run my local hospital?
Simple answer, profit.

Why does Italy have national healthcare.
Because healthcare is a human value, it is the moral ethical thing to do.  As a young doctor from Belgium said to me, it's fair.

Why did corporate America, AKA Wall Street, switch to 401(k) retirement plans?
To transfer risk and create a business opportunity for Wall Street.

There must be a lot of Rubes in Italy/Europe.

BTW, I am invested in stocks and have a very nice retirement thanks in part to Pres. Ronald Reagan.

As we say, the bulls make money, the bears make money, the hogs make none.

None of which has anything to do with ur earlier lunacy.
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: pbiflyer on July 11, 2020, 11:19:22 PM
The goal is 10 but dates and opponents are going to be revisited. Shorter trips prioritized.

Some interesting rumblings from people I’ve talked to from within the Big Ten:
-possible home and home meetings
-at least three schools talking about not playing (Rutgers won’t be missed)
-schedules adjusted later in the season based on standings or risk levels.

Sounds like a recipe for success.
At least it is somewhat of a plan.
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: vogue65 on July 12, 2020, 12:44:03 PM
None of which has anything to do with ur earlier lunacy.

I stand by all my lunacy.  Private Wall Street hospitals, self centered greedy Americans, antiscience bias, cult behaviors, selective antigovernment thinking, and Libertarian nonsense are problematical.  Now the chickens come home to roost. 
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: vogue65 on July 12, 2020, 12:48:12 PM
The goal is 10 but dates and opponents are going to be revisited. Shorter trips prioritized.

Some interesting rumblings from people I’ve talked to from within the Big Ten:
-possible home and home meetings
-at least three schools talking about not playing (Rutgers won’t be missed)
-schedules adjusted later in the season based on standings or risk levels.

Does that mean Rutgers comes back to the BIG EAST?  How about Syracuse?
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: Billy Hoyle on July 12, 2020, 01:44:13 PM
Does that mean Rutgers comes back to the BIG EAST?  How about Syracuse?

Of course not, because Rutgers cares more about the BTN money than putting a successful product on the field. And why would be Big East bring them back into the fold? They add nothing.o
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: Goatherder on July 12, 2020, 06:18:31 PM
Does that mean Rutgers comes back to the BIG EAST?  How about Syracuse?
https://www.muscoop.com/Themes/MUScoop_2015/images/bbc/right.gif

Please no.  I never thought Rutgers added anything to the BE besides another football team that did us no good.  As for Syracuse and the others, the only one I was even a little interested in was UConn.  Now that they are back, I think it will be good for basketball.  But they are the outlier right now.  The rest of the conference are a bunch of similar private schools with no interest in football.  No need to screw that up. 
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: Lennys Tap on July 12, 2020, 10:03:07 PM


As we say, the bulls make money, the bears make money, the hogs make none.

The actual phrase is “Bulls make money, bears make money, hogs get slaughtered”.

Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: Billy Hoyle on July 13, 2020, 11:18:23 AM
Patriot League cancels fall sports. Get ready for more East Coast conferences to follow suit soon.
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on July 13, 2020, 01:02:35 PM
https://sports.yahoo.com/time-to-face-reality-no-one-is-playing-college-football-in-the-fall-170634809.html

Take a deep breath, and begin to get comfortable with the idea there’s virtually no chance of playing college football in any recognizable form this fall. Start digesting the notion that the next time we see a college football game could be in more than 13 months, as the sport remains the most unlikely of all the major sports to execute a successful return. Consider any semblance of college football prior to Week Zero of 2021 as a bonus, an improbable gift from the football gods.

With the MLS struggling in a supposed bubble, MLB officials botching the testing portion of its return and an increasing amount of pessimism about the prospect of an NFL season, only a medical miracle can save college football this fall.

“Right now, I don’t see a path in the current environment to how we play,” said a Power Five athletic director. “I’m confident we’ll get back to what we all think of as normal, but it may be a year before that happens.”

Here’s the cruel truth about how college football leaders approached football this fall: The entirety of their plan to return was based on hope. Hope that the COVID-19 would go away. Hope that college campuses wouldn’t be a petri dish for the virus. Hope that they could figure out a way to play a contact sport in a time of mandatory social distancing. Hope for a vaccine to keep players healthy and seats full.

A strategy of hope isn’t much of a strategy, and a half-dozen coaches and officials told Yahoo Sports this weekend that hope is being vanquished. It’s all over in the minds of many coaches and athletic directors, as the sport will keep pushing back to buy time until the inevitable happens.

“Ultimately, no one is playing football in the fall,” said a high-ranking college official. “It’s just a matter of how it unfolds. As soon one of the ‘autonomy five’ or Power Five conferences makes a decision, that’s going to end it.”
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: jficke13 on July 13, 2020, 01:37:18 PM
I'd love to be wrong, but I've resigned myself to no NFL or NCAAB this year. I'm not even convinced MLB will make it to the finish line. At least the success of the TBT gives me some hope that the NBA can manage.
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: Billy Hoyle on July 13, 2020, 01:43:39 PM
https://sports.yahoo.com/time-to-face-reality-no-one-is-playing-college-football-in-the-fall-170634809.html

With the MLS struggling in a supposed bubble, MLB officials botching the testing portion of its return and an increasing amount of pessimism about the prospect of an NFL season, only a medical miracle can save college football this fall.


my wife is friends with an MLS team executive and was talking to him on Saturday (they go to the same yoga studio). He said he doesn't trust a lot of his players to stay in the bubble.  Some NBA players, including Damian Lillard, already said they expect NBA guys to leave and over the weekend a tweet allegedly from an "escort" said she was invited into the bubble.

In college football, there is no way to have a bubble in the fall and already there are outbreaks when only athletes are back on campus.  Within athletics, the focus is shifting towards saving basketball with a season starting in January.
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: pbiflyer on July 13, 2020, 05:19:55 PM
I'd love to be wrong, but I've resigned myself to no NFL or NCAAB this year. I'm not even convinced MLB will make it to the finish line. At least the success of the TBT gives me some hope that the NBA can manage.
Or not.

Rockets, Kings players first two to break NBA quarantine at Disney bubble ahead of restart, per report

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/rockets-kings-players-first-two-to-break-nba-quarantine-at-disney-bubble-ahead-of-restart-per-report/
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: GooooMarquette on July 13, 2020, 10:31:31 PM
I'd love to be wrong, but I've resigned myself to no NFL or NCAAB this year. I'm not even convinced MLB will make it to the finish line. At least the success of the TBT gives me some hope that the NBA can manage.


Agreed. If the NBA can get through the playoffs, it would be incredible. Anything beyond that seems unrealistic for the next several months.
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: Goatherder on July 14, 2020, 12:36:04 AM
my wife is friends with an MLS team executive and was talking to him on Saturday (they go to the same yoga studio). He said he doesn't trust a lot of his players to stay in the bubble.  Some NBA players, including Damian Lillard, already said they expect NBA guys to leave and over the weekend a tweet allegedly from an "escort" said she was invited into the bubble.


Well, in these difficult times, we have all had to resort to having things delivered.
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: MUMonster03 on July 14, 2020, 02:14:58 AM

Agreed. If the NBA can get through the playoffs, it would be incredible. Anything beyond that seems unrealistic for the next several months.

The NBA and NHL may be able to finish, but I don't see any league, where substantial travel is involves, being able to have a completed season. Baseball's problem is going to be trying to do normal games at 30 different stadiums while each area has differing levels of cases. MLS is struggling even to have it's welcome back tournament and is unlikely to have a full season, three best bet may be to continue to stay in one location and try and move to a European calendar schedule.

The reason European league's were successful, and able to play at home, is the size of the country. Germany is the largest of the big 4 league countries and it would be the 4th largest US state., travel is a lot smaller and often times done by bus so the teams can remain very isolated. We still have cases in Germany but we are well below the threshold of our hospitals being overrun.

Due to the campus environment I do not see college football happening or college basketball being feasible, maybe a neutral site tournament over the winter break since many students will not be returning after Thanksgiving giving you time to isolate the teams for two weeks and then play some games.

The NFL I just can't see, too much contact. There is a face shield Oakley has been working on but that many people that close together and having to fly all around the country to play games just seems like a recipe for disaster.
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: 4everwarriors on July 14, 2020, 05:45:17 AM
Boyz will bee boyz, aina?
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: MikeDeanesDarkGlasses on July 14, 2020, 12:31:41 PM
Makes more sense to have a stable of escorts in the bubble that are constantly tested.  Players gonna play regardless.  Athletic 20 somethings have a helluva libido, although maybe you could bring in A.C. Green to settle these guys down by giving some abstinence tips.
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: Billy Hoyle on July 14, 2020, 04:14:09 PM
Makes more sense to have a stable of escorts in the bubble that are constantly tested.  Players gonna play regardless.  Athletic 20 somethings have a helluva libido, although maybe you could bring in A.C. Green to settle these guys down by giving some abstinence tips.

Tim Tebow is a native Floridian, he's probably readily available.

Since Canadians are able to travel freely to the US it would make sense to bring this woman to Florida since many NBA players have her number in their phones already (it's why Toronto is such a popular road trip): https://torontolife.com/city/sin-city-with-snow-torontos-vip-club-scene/
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on July 16, 2020, 02:55:50 PM
Hey look, the NCAA is acting all rational.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EdEoXpCWsAExlKs?format=png&name=small)
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: GooooMarquette on July 16, 2020, 03:32:24 PM
Hey look, the NCAA is acting all rational.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EdEoXpCWsAExlKs?format=png&name=small)



That graphic, and particularly the wording on the labels ("where we are" and "where we thought we'd be"), tells me the NCAA doesn't think there should be sports anytime soon.
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: brewcity77 on July 16, 2020, 03:42:46 PM


That graphic, and particularly the wording on the labels ("where we are" and "where we thought we'd be"), tells me the NCAA doesn't think there should be sports anytime soon.

The NCAA is trying to prepare everyone for the impending announcement that they will cancel all 2020 calendar year sports. Cancelling non-con football, the Ivy cancelling fall sports, this graphic, all of these are their way of trying to give us enough warning signs so that when they cancel fall football and basketball, people don't freak out.

At this point, it's not a matter of if, but when. The week after Labor Day at the latest, I would guess.
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: Oldgym on July 16, 2020, 04:13:39 PM
That graphic, and particularly the wording on the labels ("where we are" and "where we thought we'd be"), tells me the NCAA doesn't think there should be sports anytime soon.

The image and those two labels explain our situation as clearly as any 1000 word essay.  College sports and otherwise.
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: Hards Alumni on July 16, 2020, 04:39:11 PM
The NCAA is trying to prepare everyone for the impending announcement that they will cancel all 2020 calendar year sports. Cancelling non-con football, the Ivy cancelling fall sports, this graphic, all of these are their way of trying to give us enough warning signs so that when they cancel fall football and basketball, people don't freak out.

At this point, it's not a matter of if, but when. The week after Labor Day at the latest, I would guess.

Yup, and I get the feeling that a lot of the people who won't wear masks will be the most surprised and outraged.

Little do they know, the people not following best practices are just extending the pain that we all have to go through.
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: GooooMarquette on July 16, 2020, 05:10:06 PM
The NCAA is trying to prepare everyone for the impending announcement that they will cancel all 2020 calendar year sports. Cancelling non-con football, the Ivy cancelling fall sports, this graphic, all of these are their way of trying to give us enough warning signs so that when they cancel fall football and basketball, people don't freak out.

At this point, it's not a matter of if, but when. The week after Labor Day at the latest, I would guess.


Agreed.
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: #UnleashSean on July 16, 2020, 05:13:04 PM
https://www.muscoop.com/Themes/MUScoop_2015/images/bbc/right.gif

Please no.  I never thought Rutgers added anything to the BE besides another football team that did us no good.  As for Syracuse and the others, the only one I was even a little interested in was UConn.  Now that they are back, I think it will be good for basketball.  But they are the outlier right now.  The rest of the conference are a bunch of similar private schools with no interest in football.  No need to screw that up.

Notre dame can waltz back in at anytime if it were up to me.
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on July 17, 2020, 07:52:51 AM
If I were the NCAA, or at least the P6 conferences, I would start sitting down and figure out how to save the college basketball season right now.  Football just waited thinking things would get figured out in the end.  That obviously didn't work.

Think outside the box.  One thing I have thought about is a series of weekend events.  Put four, P6 teams at a site and play day / night doubleheaders on Friday, Saturday and Sunday.  The next weekend, you head somewhere else.  Everyone has to be on-site and tested 24 hours ahead of time.

At the end of the season, hopefully we will be able to have conference tournaments and the NCAA following per normal.  IOW, you won't have a normal conference basketball season, but you will have basketball against quality competition.
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: lawdog77 on July 17, 2020, 10:46:34 AM
If I were the NCAA, or at least the P6 conferences, I would start sitting down and figure out how to save the college basketball season right now.  Football just waited thinking things would get figured out in the end.  That obviously didn't work.

Think outside the box.  One thing I have thought about is a series of weekend events.  Put four, P6 teams at a site and play day / night doubleheaders on Friday, Saturday and Sunday.  The next weekend, you head somewhere else.  Everyone has to be on-site and tested 24 hours ahead of time.

At the end of the season, hopefully we will be able to have conference tournaments and the NCAA following per normal.  IOW, you won't have a normal conference basketball season, but you will have basketball against quality competition.
With that, I wonder if college basketball would have the NCAA tournamentwith all teams invited. If not, it will be hard to pick teams if there isn't a non-conference schedule.
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: BM1090 on July 17, 2020, 10:59:12 AM
I'd love to be wrong, but I've resigned myself to no NFL or NCAAB this year. I'm not even convinced MLB will make it to the finish line. At least the success of the TBT gives me some hope that the NBA can manage.

Don't think we'll have to worry about pro sports getting cancelled anymore. There won't be fans but they'll just expand rosters and quarantine players who test positive.

I agree I don't see any college sports happening without a breakthrough in treatment.
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: brewcity77 on July 17, 2020, 12:07:14 PM
If I were the NCAA, or at least the P6 conferences, I would start sitting down and figure out how to save the college basketball season right now.  Football just waited thinking things would get figured out in the end.  That obviously didn't work.

Think outside the box.  One thing I have thought about is a series of weekend events.  Put four, P6 teams at a site and play day / night doubleheaders on Friday, Saturday and Sunday.  The next weekend, you head somewhere else.  Everyone has to be on-site and tested 24 hours ahead of time.

At the end of the season, hopefully we will be able to have conference tournaments and the NCAA following per normal.  IOW, you won't have a normal conference basketball season, but you will have basketball against quality competition.

For non-con, use the exempt tournament locations and create multiple 16-team MTEs. Get teams from 16 different conferences, create a bracket, and everyone plays in both directions to get 8 games each. Then mix up the teams and run it back. Do a 10-day quarantine with widespread testing, creating bubbles like TBT. If they started a quarantine on Thanksgiving, they could begin games on December 6. Schools would already be out by this time. Play the bracket through with the same 16 teams twice, 4 games per week, for two weeks. Players are released December 20th and get to enjoy Christmas and New Year's.

January 3, the first conference bubble starts. Quarantine for 10 days, then another 8 games over 2 weeks. This insures games are completed by January 27th, allowing classes to resume in February. Plan one more conference bubble, maybe end of February, everyone plays 4 games (so everyone gets 20 total games, 12 conference games) and then goes directly into the conference tournament at the same site.

This would give a minimum 20 game schedule with non-con play included so NET rankings and a selection process would be viable. Run the tournament in March and April, having teams again put into bubbles that play into each a final four (or eight) weekend.
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: MU82 on July 17, 2020, 03:05:14 PM
For non-con, use the exempt tournament locations and create multiple 16-team MTEs. Get teams from 16 different conferences, create a bracket, and everyone plays in both directions to get 8 games each. Then mix up the teams and run it back. Do a 10-day quarantine with widespread testing, creating bubbles like TBT. If they started a quarantine on Thanksgiving, they could begin games on December 6. Schools would already be out by this time. Play the bracket through with the same 16 teams twice, 4 games per week, for two weeks. Players are released December 20th and get to enjoy Christmas and New Year's.

January 3, the first conference bubble starts. Quarantine for 10 days, then another 8 games over 2 weeks. This insures games are completed by January 27th, allowing classes to resume in February. Plan one more conference bubble, maybe end of February, everyone plays 4 games (so everyone gets 20 total games, 12 conference games) and then goes directly into the conference tournament at the same site.

This would give a minimum 20 game schedule with non-con play included so NET rankings and a selection process would be viable. Run the tournament in March and April, having teams again put into bubbles that play into each a final four (or eight) weekend.

So, they are actually students for 2-3 weeks in February?
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: brewcity77 on July 17, 2020, 04:00:55 PM
So, they are actually students for 2-3 weeks in February?

No idea, I'm just throwing out a hypothetical to try to save a season. I don't think we'll see anything this year, but it's not impossible to imagine. It also depends on how thoroughly they want to see non-con play (basically essential for a fair selection process). I mean, you could trim play even further, maybe get down to 16 games plus conference tournaments, but it's tough.

If you do away with non-con play, how do you determine whether the 6th place team in the Big East is more deserving than the 8th placed team in the Big 10? The NET's entire functionality is based on the ability to compare teams and conferences on a wide-scale basis because with everyone playing everyone else, it at least gives you comparable baseline efficiencies.

I think the real problem is the need to stop and start play. How do you mix classes in between the bubbles? Could you do two mini-conference bubbles with classes in between and reliably expect players to stay healthy? What happens when one team has 1-2 people get sick in between bubbles? Do they forfeit the entire next period? That's where those NCAA restrictions come in. Anyone who tests positive is out for 10 days, okay that can be managed, but anyone who has "close contact" with a positive individual will have to be out for 14 days. Hard to imagine one positive test followed by routine practice and weight training won't leave the vast majority of an entire team in quarantine.

Alternately, they could just do conference play and expand the field to 96 or even 128. Hard to justify you should've been included when the committee said you were #129.
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: GooooMarquette on July 17, 2020, 05:58:26 PM
For non-con, use the exempt tournament locations and create multiple 16-team MTEs. Get teams from 16 different conferences, create a bracket, and everyone plays in both directions to get 8 games each. Then mix up the teams and run it back. Do a 10-day quarantine with widespread testing, creating bubbles like TBT. If they started a quarantine on Thanksgiving, they could begin games on December 6. Schools would already be out by this time. Play the bracket through with the same 16 teams twice, 4 games per week, for two weeks. Players are released December 20th and get to enjoy Christmas and New Year's.

January 3, the first conference bubble starts. Quarantine for 10 days, then another 8 games over 2 weeks. This insures games are completed by January 27th, allowing classes to resume in February. Plan one more conference bubble, maybe end of February, everyone plays 4 games (so everyone gets 20 total games, 12 conference games) and then goes directly into the conference tournament at the same site.

This would give a minimum 20 game schedule with non-con play included so NET rankings and a selection process would be viable. Run the tournament in March and April, having teams again put into bubbles that play into each a final four (or eight) weekend.


Theoretically, maybe this could work. But from the financial/practical/'let's call them student-athletes' perspectives, it shows just how unlikely it is that we will have college hoops this season.
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: brewcity77 on July 17, 2020, 06:40:30 PM

Theoretically, maybe this could work. But from the financial/practical/'let's call them student-athletes' perspectives, it shows just how unlikely it is that we will have college hoops this season.

Absolutely. You go to all these lengths, it makes it pretty clear the student in student-athlete is just for show.
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: Badgerhater on July 17, 2020, 07:18:40 PM
So the players will be locked down Away from class for weeks on end so they can play games no student can attend. 

All so some TV networks and the NCAA can make money.

College sports should take a season or two off if it has to be that difficult.
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: GooooMarquette on July 17, 2020, 08:32:46 PM
Bucks‘ Eric Bledsoe tests positive.

https://apnews.com/89a81ed5dcacf0912a86fdd3b8a5efb2
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: DFW HOYA on July 17, 2020, 09:31:51 PM
Absent any leadership from the NCAA or the White House, call it off for 2020-21 across all sports.

Then, sell the heck out of a return to normalcy in 2021.
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: Golden Avalanche on July 17, 2020, 09:47:55 PM
Absent any leadership from the NCAA or the White House, call it off for 2020-21 across all sports.

Then, sell the heck out of a return to normalcy in 2021.

+INFINITY
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: injuryBug on July 17, 2020, 10:47:01 PM
college basketball teams will have their own bubbles for almost 2 months on their own campus.  As most schools are going on break from nov to Jan
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: MU82 on July 18, 2020, 06:41:44 AM
If you do away with non-con play, how do you determine whether the 6th place team in the Big East is more deserving than the 8th placed team in the Big 10?

You don't worry about it so much. You go back to the "olden days" -- like 1977, when Marquette got in "just because."

Actually, IMHO the only "fair" thing to do if you manage to have a season is let everybody into the tournament. It only adds one weekend. And you do the best job you can at seeding. I mean, nothing's "normal" anyway, so for any perceived inequities, all you have to say is "coronavirus."

brewski, you were the first Scooper I know of who said there probably wouldn't be a college basketball season. I have gone from being optimistic (thinking you were wrong) to being pessimistic (thinking you were right). I don't see many realistic paths to a season now.

This is something I'd love us both to be wrong about. As long as it's for the right reason: The U.S. finally has contained COVID-19. Unfortunately, it's difficult (bordering on impossible) to see that happening in the next few months.
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: brewcity77 on July 18, 2020, 09:42:09 AM
brewski, you were the first Scooper I know of who said there probably wouldn't be a college basketball season. I have gone from being optimistic (thinking you were wrong) to being pessimistic (thinking you were right). I don't see many realistic paths to a season now.

The biggest problem I see is that any viable solution (such as my 20-game, 3 bubble idea) completely wipes away any facsimile of amateurism. If the NCAA goes full TBT, creating bubbles to insure they can meet TV contracts and play a NCAA tournament that could honestly save collegiate sports, they will also demonstrate that profit is prioritized over education and safety. Hard to justify putting "amateurs" in a bubble when NBA professionals are opting out.
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: MUeng on July 18, 2020, 09:52:44 AM
Absent any leadership from the NCAA or the White House, call it off for 2020-21 across all sports.

Then, sell the heck out of a return to normalcy in 2021.
agree. Take a year off, enjoy the free time with family, and get back to sports spring/summer 2021. Frankly I've become used to a world without sports...
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: brewcity77 on July 18, 2020, 09:57:45 AM
agree. Take a year off, enjoy the free time with family, and get back to sports spring/summer 2021. Frankly I've become used to a world without sports...

I'm not sure how possible that is, at least at the collegiate level. So many scholarships rely on donation dollars and those revenue games being played. All the television contracts need games to be played to be fulfilled. Coach & athletic department salaries need to be paid.

If sports, at least collegiate sports, freeze until 2021, I expect there are a number of sports we'll never see back. That could lead to a ton of unintended consequences, from simple ones like staff losing jobs & athletes losing scholarships to longer lasting ones like a competitive implosion of the USOC.
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: Badgerhater on July 18, 2020, 10:18:03 AM
I'm not sure how possible that is, at least at the collegiate level. So many scholarships rely on donation dollars and those revenue games being played. All the television contracts need games to be played to be fulfilled. Coach & athletic department salaries need to be paid.

If sports, at least collegiate sports, freeze until 2021, I expect there are a number of sports we'll never see back. That could lead to a ton of unintended consequences, from simple ones like staff losing jobs & athletes losing scholarships to longer lasting ones like a competitive implosion of the USOC.

These are not bad things.  Perhaps colleges in all areas should concentrate more on academics.
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: 79Warrior on July 18, 2020, 10:27:03 AM
Absent any leadership from the NCAA or the White House, call it off for 2020-21 across all sports.

Then, sell the heck out of a return to normalcy in 2021.

Bingo.
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: jesmu84 on July 18, 2020, 06:40:18 PM
I'm not sure how possible that is, at least at the collegiate level. So many scholarships rely on donation dollars and those revenue games being played. All the television contracts need games to be played to be fulfilled. Coach & athletic department salaries need to be paid.

If sports, at least collegiate sports, freeze until 2021, I expect there are a number of sports we'll never see back. That could lead to a ton of unintended consequences, from simple ones like staff losing jobs & athletes losing scholarships to longer lasting ones like a competitive implosion of the USOC.

Free market forces at work?
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: Mr. Sand-Knit on July 19, 2020, 04:41:05 AM
Free market forces at work?

The end of High School sports would be spectacular if that happened.
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: GOO on July 19, 2020, 10:50:22 AM
The end of High School sports would be spectacular if that happened.
This thread is moving towards how I view College sports.  The have gotten too big and too much of a "feed me" "feed me more" mentality all at the expense of "student."  Many fans as well, not just the fringe fans, only care about winning and the show on the floor instead of a balance between athletics and student-athlete.  The Ivy league, maybe leagues such as the Patriot league, have some perspective that actually puts the student in student-athlete.  I respect these schools and leagues more and more. 

I respect the non-revenue sports more and more and players no on scholarship or on partial scholarships.  Yes, I know who pays for these non-revenue sports. But why in the heck do non-revenue sports play in conferences that require long trips and plane rides and hotel stays, etc.  It makes no sense and should be restructured to have different localized leagues for non-revenue sports based upon geography and cost savings.

College sports have been trying to compete with the pro-sports, compete with each other at ridiculous levels such as Ohio State, and the SEC, and getting further and further away from caring about the athlete from a student perspective. I realize it old fashioned for me to think that college sports should be mainly about student-athlete and not primarily about the entertainment business. 

This might be a good chance for us fans to realize what is important in their own lives, and for colleges to take a step back and realize that the sports machine should be able to go a season without full revenue - or if it can't - then something needs to change.  Maybe start with college coach's pay that have gone through the roof in the last 30 years. 
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: GOO on July 19, 2020, 10:55:37 AM
The end of High School sports would be spectacular if that happened.
Sports an be a great learning tool and great for high school kids for so many reasons.  But, when practices are 6 or 7 days a week for hours, game travel, etc, it has gotten out of hand for good students.  Just like on my college sports opinion, I maybe old fashioned, but it seems like the priority has become so much about sports and winning and not learning and not the student part. Does it really matter if they shortened practice a bit or practiced 4 days a week?  Not really; or if students are doing poorly turn some practices into study halls 2 days a week?  If someone is really really good, and motivated, they'd have some additional time for individual workouts and improvements if they want.  But I forget, it is mostly about winning now, even at the high school level.
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: Mr. Sand-Knit on July 19, 2020, 01:08:15 PM
Sports an be a great learning tool and great for high school kids for so many reasons.  But, when practices are 6 or 7 days a week for hours, game travel, etc, it has gotten out of hand for good students.  Just like on my college sports opinion, I maybe old fashioned, but it seems like the priority has become so much about sports and winning and not learning and not the student part. Does it really matter if they shortened practice a bit or practiced 4 days a week?  Not really; or if students are doing poorly turn some practices into study halls 2 days a week?  If someone is really really good, and motivated, they'd have some additional time for individual workouts and improvements if they want.  But I forget, it is mostly about winning now, even at the high school level.

15-18 yo kids can play sports and learn all the exact same things playing sports outside of high schools.  Right now most youth/rec leagues fall apart/stop after ages 13,14,15 because high school and clubs suck up most of the participants.  Getting the circus that is high school sports out of the schools would not only save schools systems millions of dollars and even more distractions.  It would allow those rec leagues far more participants to continue with say 16-18 yo divisions.  The most talented can play club.  The argument can be easily made that a great many 15-18 are negatively affected by HS sports as they are not great athletes but still want to play.  However, because they arent in the top 5%-10% in that sport in their HS and there are not rec leagues for their ages then their careers end due to no other options.
So if the lessons of sport are so great why are they then being limited by schools to the top 5?% of players in each sport/class? Additionally, why are the US and some of Canada the only ones that do it this way?  Are Europe, SA, and Asia falling behind the US do to lack of this amazing developmental tool only available in the US,that needs be part of a HS’s offerings? ?
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: pbiflyer on July 19, 2020, 01:24:55 PM
Drip, drip, drip.

Mahomes, Brees and More Tweet on NFL Not Following COVID-19 Safety Guidelines

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2900801-brees-watt-more-players-tweet-on-nfl-not-following-covid-19-safety-guidelines?utm_source=cnn.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=editorial
Russell Wilson
@DangeRussWilson
I am concerned.
My wife is pregnant.
@NFL Training camp is about to start..

And there’s still No Clear Plan on Player Health & Family Safety. 🤷🏾

We want to play football but we also want to protect our loved ones.
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: MU82 on July 19, 2020, 01:46:03 PM
Sports an be a great learning tool and great for high school kids for so many reasons.  But, when practices are 6 or 7 days a week for hours, game travel, etc, it has gotten out of hand for good students.  Just like on my college sports opinion, I maybe old fashioned, but it seems like the priority has become so much about sports and winning and not learning and not the student part. Does it really matter if they shortened practice a bit or practiced 4 days a week?

Well stated. When folks talk about high school sports, they invariably are talking about basketball and football, and usually big-time basketball and football. But for every LeBron Situation or Jimmy Clausen Situation, there are hundreds of kids playing high school softball or field hockey or volleyball or swimming or even basketball and football on a far lower level.

Saying high school sports are bad when talking about 99.9% of all girls volleyball players would be like saying college sports are bad because of women's lacrosse.

If high schools have the will, there is a way to make basketball and football less "corporate" and hyped, and it's to do just what you suggested - make it more fun and less of a job by de-emphasizing the big-timeness of it.

I am realistic enough to know that probably won't happen, and that it will only get bigger and more "professional." I mean, just look at how big-time Little League has gotten ... and those are only 11-12 year olds! (And the occasional 16-year-old pretending to be 12.)

But even the "bigness" happens almost exclusively in the biggest sports: basketball, football, hockey in a few states, baseball in a few areas, maybe wrestling in Iowa, maybe lacrosse in a few places. The rest of 'em are just kids competing with their friends, learning to get along with people, staying in shape, and becoming more well-rounded human beings.

These are not bad things.  Perhaps colleges in all areas should concentrate more on academics.

Again, I think we're kind of "stuck" on the biggest sports at certain schools.

I'm too lazy to look it up now, but I have looked it up in the past, and I believe that athletes at most universities have at least as high if not higher cumulative GPAs as the overall student bodies do. That even applied for the basketball and football teams at a large number of schools.

For every basketball superstar who just wants to play a season and move on to the big bucks, there are hundreds of athletes, male and female, who are grateful to play college sports and who very much value the degrees they'll be getting.

Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on July 19, 2020, 02:13:22 PM
The NFL has way too much money on the line. I think these tweets are way more about negotiations. I mean...I hope the have some sort of plan in place right?
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: pbiflyer on July 19, 2020, 03:13:16 PM
The NFL has way too much money on the line. I think these tweets are way more about negotiations. I mean...I hope the have some sort of plan in place right?

I think that is their plan.
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: GooooMarquette on July 19, 2020, 03:25:05 PM
This thread is moving towards how I view College sports.  The have gotten too big and too much of a "feed me" "feed me more" mentality all at the expense of "student."  Many fans as well, not just the fringe fans, only care about winning and the show on the floor instead of a balance between athletics and student-athlete.  The Ivy league, maybe leagues such as the Patriot league, have some perspective that actually puts the student in student-athlete.  I respect these schools and leagues more and more. 

I respect the non-revenue sports more and more and players no on scholarship or on partial scholarships.  Yes, I know who pays for these non-revenue sports. But why in the heck do non-revenue sports play in conferences that require long trips and plane rides and hotel stays, etc.  It makes no sense and should be restructured to have different localized leagues for non-revenue sports based upon geography and cost savings.

College sports have been trying to compete with the pro-sports, compete with each other at ridiculous levels such as Ohio State, and the SEC, and getting further and further away from caring about the athlete from a student perspective. I realize it old fashioned for me to think that college sports should be mainly about student-athlete and not primarily about the entertainment business. 

This might be a good chance for us fans to realize what is important in their own lives, and for colleges to take a step back and realize that the sports machine should be able to go a season without full revenue - or if it can't - then something needs to change.  Maybe start with college coach's pay that have gone through the roof in the last 30 years.



I agree. This pandemic is causing a lot of disruption, and giving many of us time to reassess what is really important. And I am coming to the same conclusion as you: That big-time, money-making college sports has veered so far from where it started, to the point where is is often just an alternative to the pro sports leagues. And I think that's unfortunate.

Big-time sports schools will never go back anywhere near the Ivy League or Patriot League models (students first, athletes a distant second), but maybe this will cause schools (colleges and high schools alike) to reassess how much they emphasize and invest in sports programs.

Maybe I'm just old-fashioned too....
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: Dawson Rental on July 19, 2020, 04:00:28 PM


I agree. This pandemic is causing a lot of disruption, and giving many of us time to reassess what is really important. And I am coming to the same conclusion as you: That big-time, money-making college sports has veered so far from where it started, to the point where is is often just an alternative to the pro sports leagues. And I think that's unfortunate.

Big-time sports schools will never go back anywhere near the Ivy League or Patriot League models (students first, athletes a distant second), but maybe this will cause schools (colleges and high schools alike) to reassess how much they emphasize and invest in sports programs.

Maybe I'm just old-fashioned too....

Those of us who argue that the NCAA is unfair when it mandates no compensation for (student) athletes came to that conclusion a while ago.  It's the basis for our opinion.
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: GooooMarquette on July 19, 2020, 09:09:43 PM
Those of us who argue that the NCAA is unfair when it mandates no compensation for (student) athletes came to that conclusion a while ago.  It's the basis for our opinion.

Yeah...but I would go in a different direction on the economics. I would say the system should be set up so that athletes who want to make money as athletes go ahead and do it instead of going to college. I seriously doubt that happens, but to me that would be the ‘right’ outcome. I would still like to see college sports programs, but with athletes who are in school for school first.
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: Lennys Tap on July 19, 2020, 10:16:43 PM
Yeah...but I would go in a different direction on the economics. I would say the system should be set up so that athletes who want to make money as athletes go ahead and do it instead of going to college. I seriously doubt that happens, but to me that would be the ‘right’ outcome. I would still like to see college sports programs, but with athletes who are in school for school first.

Doesn’t matter if we’re talking Ivy League or SEC, Augustana or Alabama. School admit young men who play football and basketball who would not be considered but for their athletic prowess. Naturally some will see themselves as athletes first, students second (if that). As long as there is money in sports (both college and professional) that isn’t changing IMO.


.





Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: dgies9156 on July 19, 2020, 10:39:37 PM
Well stated. When folks talk about high school sports, they invariably are talking about basketball and football, and usually big-time basketball and football. But for every LeBron Situation or Jimmy Clausen Situation, there are hundreds of kids playing high school softball or field hockey or volleyball or swimming or even basketball and football on a far lower level.

Saying high school sports are bad when talking about 99.9% of all girls volleyball players would be like saying college sports are bad because of women's lacrosse.

If high schools have the will, there is a way to make basketball and football less "corporate" and hyped, and it's to do just what you suggested - make it more fun and less of a job by de-emphasizing the big-timeness of it.

I am realistic enough to know that probably won't happen, and that it will only get bigger and more "professional." I mean, just look at how big-time Little League has gotten ... and those are only 11-12 year olds! (And the occasional 16-year-old pretending to be 12.)

But even the "bigness" happens almost exclusively in the biggest sports: basketball, football, hockey in a few states, baseball in a few areas, maybe wrestling in Iowa, maybe lacrosse in a few places. The rest of 'em are just kids competing with their friends, learning to get along with people, staying in shape, and becoming more well-rounded human beings.

Again, I think we're kind of "stuck" on the biggest sports at certain schools.

I'm too lazy to look it up now, but I have looked it up in the past, and I believe that athletes at most universities have at least as high if not higher cumulative GPAs as the overall student bodies do. That even applied for the basketball and football teams at a large number of schools.

For every basketball superstar who just wants to play a season and move on to the big bucks, there are hundreds of athletes, male and female, who are grateful to play college sports and who very much value the degrees they'll be getting.

My problem with high school sports is akin to some of your thoughts, Brother MU. It's not about physical education, problem solving, collaboration and commitment. It's about the intangibles. High school sports is about the absurd and totally unhealthy superiority complex when West Bumfork High demolishes Hillbilly Tech from East Bumfork in football. Or when Innercity Polytech, with its average ACT score of 14, wins the IHSA Championship in Division 7 or 8 and sends three of its stars to Division 1 universities.

We don't care about graduation rates, ACT/SAT scores, quality of graduates or percentage of class members who went on to high school. We care about some obscure football or basketball game and our ability to gloat over a couple of wins.

When a local high school near me was built more than a decade ago, it cost $44 million (and the land was donated). Half of that amount was for athletic facilities.

Heck, the teen age athletic programs should be in the Park Districts, not in the schools!
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: GooooMarquette on July 19, 2020, 11:03:26 PM
Doesn’t matter if we’re talking Ivy League or SEC, Augustana or Alabama. School admit young men who play football and basketball who would not be considered but for their athletic prowess. Naturally some will see themselves as athletes first, students second (if that). As long as there is money in sports (both college and professional) that isn’t changing IMO.




We are in agreement that it isn’t happening. I just said I would prefer it to the current situation, where many student-athletes in the big money sports aren’t really students at all.
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: brewcity77 on July 20, 2020, 06:09:37 AM
Yeah...but I would go in a different direction on the economics. I would say the system should be set up so that athletes who want to make money as athletes go ahead and do it instead of going to college. I seriously doubt that happens, but to me that would be the ‘right’ outcome. I would still like to see college sports programs, but with athletes who are in school for school first.

I'm going to guess that if that's what you want, 99% of D1 scholarship athletes won't be back. Though it's unlikely, I still think a number of D2 and D3 players are dreaming of the NBA.
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: GooooMarquette on July 20, 2020, 07:11:46 AM
I'm going to guess that if that's what you want, 99% of D1 scholarship athletes won't be back. Though it's unlikely, I still think a number of D2 and D3 players are dreaming of the NBA.


I don't know that it would be anywhere near that high. Maybe if you need the "someday I want to be a fireman/astronaut" kind of dreamers in the mix...but a huge number of those kids still go to school to get an education, treat pursue academics with great diligence (i.e., not just to stay eligible), and look at an NBA career as a huge longshot.

Maybe I should have said I'd like to see the system set up so that kids who plan to make their money in the NBA would go straight to making money.
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on July 20, 2020, 07:41:18 AM
My kids included a high schools sports multiple letterwinner and one who didn't care.

High school sports are both good and bad.  The good is a little overrated, but so is the bad.  As long as the parents kept things in perspective, it was an enjoyable experience.  When they didn't, it was a poor one.
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: SERocks on July 20, 2020, 08:11:26 AM
Frankly I've become used to a world without sports...

And without YouTube TV.  It's all good.
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: dgies9156 on July 20, 2020, 08:30:17 AM
My kids included a high schools sports multiple letterwinner and one who didn't care.

High school sports are both good and bad.  The good is a little overrated, but so is the bad.  As long as the parents kept things in perspective, it was an enjoyable experience.  When they didn't, it was a poor one.

Brother fluff, I understand both points. But when the schools, parents and communities see it as more than students recreating, it's when we have problems. Forget this, "I'm fighting for the greater glory of Hillbilly High" rah rah stuff and begin to see it as a a means for education of students and I'll change my mind.
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on July 20, 2020, 08:39:25 AM
Brother fluff, I understand both points. But when the schools, parents and communities see it as more than students recreating, it's when we have problems. Forget this, "I'm fighting for the greater glory of Hillbilly High" rah rah stuff and begin to see it as a a means for education of students and I'll change my mind.

Eh.  There is nothing wrong with that if it is kept in proper context.  My kids had a rival high school in another town that they competed against for years.  But it never got bad.

And honestly most of the non-competing students don't care all that much anyway. 
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: Mr. Sand-Knit on July 20, 2020, 09:09:10 AM
Eh.  There is nothing wrong with that if it is kept in proper context.  My kids had a rival high school in another town that they competed against for years.  But it never got bad.

And honestly most of the non-competing students don't care all that much anyway.

The issue is the cost and the distraction of why they are supposed to be there, not to mention tax dollar funded.  I have two sons that were 4 year varsity starters.  Both enjoyed HS athletics because they had an opportunity to play with their friends, but complained of it because the competition sucked and preferred club/travel.  All the great “social” skills learned by sports can be garnered ian non HS athletics. Its institutionalized by a heavily prounion governmental organizational and the grip is ultra tight
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on July 20, 2020, 09:26:45 AM
The amount of money spent on high school sports in my district is a rounding error.  Not even worth getting worked up about.  And a good portion of it is covered by fees for those who participate, gifts from booster clubs, etc. 
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: Badgerhater on July 20, 2020, 10:05:22 AM
City of Milwaukee rule now prevents colleges from having in-person classes. https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/education/2020/07/17/milwaukee-schools-colleges-not-allowed-open-fall-semester/5458663002/
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: Billy Hoyle on July 20, 2020, 11:04:47 AM
Brother fluff, I understand both points. But when the schools, parents and communities see it as more than students recreating, it's when we have problems. Forget this, "I'm fighting for the greater glory of Hillbilly High" rah rah stuff and begin to see it as a a means for education of students and I'll change my mind.

being from a rural, one high school area, we didn't have that. We had rival schools but we didn't know anyone from there. Sports were for A) recreation and B) the kids of teachers (or parents who kissed the asses of coaches) to be given preferential treatment. Winning wasn't as important as taking care of one's colleagues. We've had three D1 basketball players and no D1 football players all-time from my HS. Some track went D1 but that was it.
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: Galway Eagle on July 20, 2020, 12:23:35 PM
I personally like High School Sports in America way more than the European system. It gives you a sense of pride in your school and connection with others who've gone there. My cousins in England and Ireland don't have that at all whether it's the university level, college, or grade school.

Yes there's places where it's out of control but I think representing your school as opposed to random club that happens to be near you is a good feeling.
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: Pakuni on July 20, 2020, 12:34:56 PM
California is moving its fall and winter sports seasons to late winter/spring.
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: Nukem2 on July 21, 2020, 04:19:48 PM
On a side note, Green Bay Packers prez Mark Murphy estimates that the Packers will allow between 10 to 12 thousand fan this season for games played at Lambeau Field.  Just fwiw.
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: Uncle Rico on July 21, 2020, 04:50:38 PM
On a side note, Green Bay Packers prez Mark Murphy estimates that the Packers will allow between 10 to 12 thousand fan this season for games played at Lambeau Field.  Just fwiw.

If there’s one thing to repel Covid, it’s 12,000 Packers fans all together
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: WhiteTrash on July 21, 2020, 05:06:55 PM
On a side note, Green Bay Packers prez Mark Murphy estimates that the Packers will allow between 10 to 12 thousand fan this season for games played at Lambeau Field.  Just fwiw.
This will decimate the beer and brat industry in GB. ;D
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: MarquetteMike1977 on July 21, 2020, 05:19:14 PM
https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/education/2020/07/21/milwaukee-schools-approved-plans-allowed-reopen-fall/5481958002/
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: MU82 on July 21, 2020, 11:12:38 PM
I have seen high school sports up close and personal from every possible angle.

Both of my kids were athletes. They learned a lot about life, teamwork, selflessness, etc. I believe they would tell you today (now that they are 30-somethings) that some of their best memories are of their time as HS athletes. I know that I loved watching them play, and it was a sad day for me when my son (the younger one) played his final HS baseball game.

I was a HS athlete, too, though not as good as my kids (and certainly I was no Ners). I have mostly fond memories.

I covered some pretty cool HS events, but I also saw the more unseemly side in which it was all about money and power and politics -- kind of what dgies described in his posts.

Most recently, I assistant coached 2 years of girls basketball at a very successful program at the largest HS in NC. It was an interesting experience, with a little bad but mostly good. Our head coach was outstanding, and I believe the kids who passed through his program became better people for having done so.

As in most things, I don't like making blanket condemnations -- or giving blanket praise.

I pretty much agree with Sultan's take: The good is a little overrated, but so is the bad.  As long as the parents kept things in perspective, it was an enjoyable experience.  When they didn't, it was a poor one.
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: GooooMarquette on July 22, 2020, 06:08:02 PM
On a side note, Green Bay Packers prez Mark Murphy estimates that the Packers will allow between 10 to 12 thousand fan this season for games played at Lambeau Field.  Just fwiw.


And if they do have fans, they will be wearing masks....

https://www.nfl.com/news/nfl-fans-required-to-wear-face-coverings-at-games-in-2020

Frankly, I still view the idea of even having a season outside a bubble as overly optimistic, so masks would be a small price to pay if they actually get that far.
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: WhiteTrash on July 22, 2020, 07:45:28 PM

And if they do have fans, they will be wearing masks....

https://www.nfl.com/news/nfl-fans-required-to-wear-face-coverings-at-games-in-2020

Frankly, I still view the idea of even having a season outside a bubble as overly optimistic, so masks would be a small price to pay if they actually get that far.
How do you drink a beer and eat popcorn with a mask?
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: Hards Alumni on July 22, 2020, 08:00:50 PM
How do you drink a beer and eat popcorn with a mask?

You assume that there will be vendors.
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: Galway Eagle on July 23, 2020, 09:49:44 AM
You assume that there will be vendors.

BYOB sports!
Title: Re: More Ominous Signs for College Sports
Post by: Uncle Rico on July 23, 2020, 11:19:02 AM
BYOB sports!

https://milwaukeerecord.com/sports/remembering-milwaukee-county-stadium-banned-carry-ins-everyone-got-pissed/