COVID Economy

[Jockey]

To be fair, I doubt it would be much of an economic impact as we'd all spend it on drugs

Thanks for those words of wisdom, Joe.

[Pakuni]

"Paying your honestly acquired obligations is for suckers! We can sell this BS to the dopes as a way to 'advance society'. The con of all cons!"

Eliminate bankruptcy protections, then?

Maybe the better idea is to catch up with the rest of the civilized world and make higher education affordable.

[Lennys Tap]

Eliminate bankruptcy protections, then?

Maybe the better idea is to catch up with the rest of the civilized world and make higher education affordable.

Bankruptcy protections don't come without consequences. It's a long way from loan forgiveness for all (regardless of circumstances) to bankruptcy.

I'm all for making higher education more affordable. What most colleges charge for tuition and room/board is way out of line. The least the schools could do is guarantee the loans themselves - that would bring costs down.

[Pakuni]

Bankruptcy protections don't come without consequences. It's a long way from loan forgiveness for all (regardless of circumstances) to bankruptcy.

Does bankruptcy allow for the people and corporations to walk away from their honestly acquired obligations, or not?

[Lennys Tap]

Does bankruptcy allow for the people and corporations to walk away from their honestly acquired obligations, or not?

Individuals who declare bankruptcy are forced to give up their credit cards. Everything you need one for is taken off the table. Bankruptcy stays on your credit report for 10 years, making it virtually impossible to be approved for most loans. It can even impact rental agreements. In addition, some tasks are required (counseling, etc.).

As things stand, it is difficult to have your student loans discharged in bankruptcy proceedings. But if one can show that his or her student loan payment presents an "undue hardship" they can be included. I assume that provision is included so that people don't just routinely declare bankruptcy the minute they graduate or cash their final check.

So yes, individuals can walk away from their honestly acquired obligations - but not without consequence. Tearing up everyone's current obligations (a student loan "holiday") is very different. And very arbitrary. And very unfair. IMO.

[Hards Alumni]

Individuals who declare bankruptcy are forced to give up their credit cards. Everything you need one for is taken off the table. Bankruptcy stays on your credit report for 10 years, making it virtually impossible to be approved for most loans. It can even impact rental agreements. In addition, some tasks are required (counseling, etc.).

As things stand, it is difficult to have your student loans discharged in bankruptcy proceedings. But if one can show that his or her student loan payment presents an "undue hardship" they can be included. I assume that provision is included so that people don't just routinely declare bankruptcy the minute they graduate or cash their final check.

So yes, individuals can walk away from their honestly acquired obligations - but not without consequence. Tearing up everyone's current obligations (a student loan "holiday") is very different. And very arbitrary. And very unfair. IMO.

Dream on.  I have a former employee who has declared bankruptcy SEVERAL times.  She had credit cards, and a newer car than we did.  Now, of course her rates were highway robbery, but you can certainly get loans.

[Hards Alumni]

Forcing taxpayers to pay off other peoples debts = an economic boom? Awesome. Why stop with profligate ex college students? If we include forgiveness of all credit card debt, mortgage debt, car loan debt, etc., we'll be living in Utopia in no time. What could possibly go wrong?

Forcing me to pay the US government to blow up kids all over the world isn't what I'd like the money used for either, but we don't get to choose where each of our tax dollars are allocated.  We should forgive student loans for a ton of reasons.  If you'd like me to go over them for you, I can, but your mind on the matter seems pretty made up, so why bother? 

[jesmu84]

Lots of moral hazard hand-wringing and slippery slope arguments in here. Love it.

Either you believe in publicly funded education for our population or you don't. In this century, that should absolutely include a bachelor's (or at least associates).

[Uncle Rico]

Lots of moral hazard hand-wringing and slippery slope arguments in here. Love it.

Either you believe in publicly funded education for our population or you don't. In this century, that should absolutely include a bachelor's (or at least associates).

Our nations choice to fight against education and heath care for all is rooted in our Christian-based founding

[Lennys Tap]

Lots of moral hazard hand-wringing and slippery slope arguments in here. Love it.

Either you believe in publicly funded education for our population or you don't. In this century, that should absolutely include a bachelor's (or at least associates).

Advocate for free college if you think it's a good idea. Given  honest admission standards I could agree with such a law. Making it retroactive? Nope.

[4everwarriors]

Went to the post office yesterday. Incurred $7.38 in charges. Gave the dude $20.08 in cash. Received $13.30 in change. Not everyone should be going to college. Dis kountry iz sew fooked, aina?

[Spotcheck Billy]

yew by a cuppa coffee wit dat sixty?

[4everwarriors]

Korrected and skooled da kat. Figured da government knees it moore da mee, hey?

[rocky_warrior]

Dis kountry iz sew fooked, aina?

You act as if math has been a problem only in the past 2 years.  You know you went to school with dumbasses too!  In a "dangerous" neighborhood even!

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

Our nations choice to fight against education and heath care for all is rooted in our Christian-based founding

And the worst part is we are not Christian-based founded either.  I hate when people try to push that myth.
(I know you are not, Uncle Rico.)

[Hards Alumni]

Advocate for free college if you think it's a good idea. Given  honest admission standards I could agree with such a law. Making it retroactive? Nope.

Why.

[4everwarriors]

You act as if math has been a problem only in the past 2 years.  You know you went to school with dumbasses too!  In a "dangerous" neighborhood even!

Ewe went ta skool wit mee? Hoo new, hey?

[jficke13]

Dream on.  I have a former employee who has declared bankruptcy SEVERAL times.  She had credit cards, and a newer car than we did.  Now, of course her rates were highway robbery, but you can certainly get loans.

Several years ago I dealt with a person who basically had to declare his expenses. I can't remember the exact #s, but he had a used truck and a monthly payment of $1k. My jaw about hit the floor, when I saw his note it was an auto loan going off at like 17%. I can only assume that his credit score made the Nevada Test Range look like Malibu.

Now, your point that despite having ruinous one can get loans and have new things may be true, going through life that way is a road that ends in debt peonage and nowhere else.

[jficke13]

Individuals who declare bankruptcy are forced to give up their credit cards. Everything you need one for is taken off the table. Bankruptcy stays on your credit report for 10 years, making it virtually impossible to be approved for most loans. It can even impact rental agreements. In addition, some tasks are required (counseling, etc.).

As things stand, it is difficult to have your student loans discharged in bankruptcy proceedings. But if one can show that his or her student loan payment presents an "undue hardship" they can be included. I assume that provision is included so that people don't just routinely declare bankruptcy the minute they graduate or cash their final check.

So yes, individuals can walk away from their honestly acquired obligations - but not without consequence. Tearing up everyone's current obligations (a student loan "holiday") is very different. And very arbitrary. And very unfair. IMO.

Good luck. In order to succeed in that effort you have to pass what's called the "certainty of hopelessness test." That is you have to show that you cannot repay the student loan, and under no feasible change in your circumstances could allow you to repay your loans. Basically, if you have terminal cancer and a prognosis of months to live, you've got a shot. (One case has terminal cancer person satisfying the test, one case has a person with crippling mental illness/special needs who got hooked by a for-profit scam getting denied). Almost anything else is likely to fail.

[jficke13]

If you want loan forgiveness take advantage of PSLF and earn it. I find it amusing that the biggest proponents in government of loan "forgiveness" are the members of "The Squad" who, despite $174k a year salaries, continue to cry poverty because they have loans they don't want to pay off (maybe AOC could have passed in the unneeded Tesla). That Rashida Talib claims to be $200k in student loan debt from graduating from the worst law school in America in a low cost of living city, 20 years ago when tuition was under $17k/year, should disqualify her from elected office.

We understood the terms, signed voluntarily, and now people who got what the loans were for (or dropped/flunked out) are refusing to honor their obligation and demanding a hand out. Next will be mortgages.

What is most interesting is the greatest beneficiaries of forgiveness would be middle-upper and upper class whites. 

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/up-front/2021/02/12/putting-student-loan-forgiveness-in-perspective-how-costly-is-it-and-who-benefits/

Good luck. Almost nobody successfully navigates the byzantine requirements necessary to qualify.

Oh and I hope you save enough money to pay some taxes. The tax year in which the loan is forgiven you're going to have to report the entire forgiven balance as ordinary income. But I'm sure the famously easy-going IRS will be cool about it.

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

Good luck. Almost nobody successfully navigates the byzantine requirements necessary to qualify.

Oh and I hope you save enough money to pay some taxes. The tax year in which the loan is forgiven you're going to have to report the entire forgiven balance as ordinary income. But I'm sure the famously easy-going IRS will be cool about it.

A few years ago, Rolling Stone had an article on student debt and student loans.  They covered several examples of people with obvious hardships and they were still denied and people who borrowed like $8,000 owed $35,000+ with "the penalties" and another was like $15,000 borrowed and well over $100,000 with "the penalties".

[The Sultan]

Good luck. Almost nobody successfully navigates the byzantine requirements necessary to qualify.

Oh and I hope you save enough money to pay some taxes. The tax year in which the loan is forgiven you're going to have to report the entire forgiven balance as ordinary income. But I'm sure the famously easy-going IRS will be cool about it.

Actually they shortened the process for this. I know a few people who have had their loans discharged.

[The Sultan]

Went to the post office yesterday. Incurred $7.38 in charges. Gave the dude $20.08 in cash. Received $13.30 in change. Not everyone should be going to college. Dis kountry iz sew fooked, aina?

I'll say the country is fooked. Who still uses cash?

[The Sultan]

Advocate for free college if you think it's a good idea. Given  honest admission standards I could agree with such a law. Making it retroactive? Nope.

Why not?  We retroactively do fiscal stuff all the time.

[Hards Alumni]

Several years ago I dealt with a person who basically had to declare his expenses. I can't remember the exact #s, but he had a used truck and a monthly payment of $1k. My jaw about hit the floor, when I saw his note it was an auto loan going off at like 17%. I can only assume that his credit score made the Nevada Test Range look like Malibu.

Now, your point that despite having ruinous one can get loans and have new things may be true, going through life that way is a road that ends in debt peonage and nowhere else.

That's where she was at.  I wanted to puke on her behalf.  Unfortunately, she's never been smart, and I can't fix all of my employees problems.  Especially if they won't listen to my suggestions... like not getting a new car every two years.  She's such a financial whale for the dealership that exploits her.