COVID Economy

[jesmu84]

My understanding is that the Heroes Act called for an additional $1200 payment per person, protection of healthcare benefits, payroll protection to keep more people employed, and an additional $600/week unemployment for those who don't have work.

Is that not true?

There's certainly more proposed in the Heroes Act.

Mcconnell is highly unlikely to pass anything without liability restrictions.

Neither party wants the priority of the money to go to individuals.

Both parties want the great majority of the money to go to corporations.

The last 2 sentences are the really sad part.

[The Sultan]

There's certainly more proposed in the Heroes Act.

Mcconnell is highly unlikely to pass anything without liability restrictions.

Neither party wants the priority of the money to go to individuals.

Both parties want the great majority of the money to go to corporations.

The last 2 sentences are the really sad part.

Liability restrictions IMO are fine with me IF businesses are following local health guidelines. Right now with everything so widespread, liability is less of an issue anyway.

[jesmu84]

https://youtu.be/v-DRvLA1gbI

[MU82]

From the NYT:

More than 5.2 million companies received loans from the Paycheck Protection Program, the $523 billion centerpiece of the government's pandemic aid for businesses. But the first full accounting of the data from the Small Business Administration shows what most suspected: More than a quarter of the money went to just 1 percent of borrowers, The Times's Stacy Cowley and Ella Koeze report.

Some of the most prominent recipients:

National restaurant chains: Ted's Montana Grill, T.G.I. Friday's and P.F. Chang's were among those that each received the maximum of $10 million, after the industry successfully lobbied to make large chains eligible for aid aimed at small businesses.

Law firms: Boies Schiller Flexner and Kasowitz Benson Torres, which was founded by the Trump ally Marc Kasowitz, each collected $10 million.

Tenants of Trump properties: Nearly 100 businesses listing an address at 40 Wall Street, a building with ties to the Trump Organization, received a total of more than $34 million in loans.

The program's effectiveness is in question. The payroll provider Gusto found that the chances that workers would lose their job at a company that took a P.P.P. loan — which was forgivable if companies kept employees on their books for a period of time — increased by 25 percent during the week that the loan's restrictions ended.

Some 232,000 jobs may have been eliminated as the restrictions expired. "Companies really emerged in no better shape," said Luke Pardue, a Gusto economist. "A lot of that is due to the fact that the economy is in no better shape."

[jesmu84]

From the NYT:

More than 5.2 million companies received loans from the Paycheck Protection Program, the $523 billion centerpiece of the government's pandemic aid for businesses. But the first full accounting of the data from the Small Business Administration shows what most suspected: More than a quarter of the money went to just 1 percent of borrowers, The Times's Stacy Cowley and Ella Koeze report.

Some of the most prominent recipients:

National restaurant chains: Ted's Montana Grill, T.G.I. Friday's and P.F. Chang's were among those that each received the maximum of $10 million, after the industry successfully lobbied to make large chains eligible for aid aimed at small businesses.

Law firms: Boies Schiller Flexner and Kasowitz Benson Torres, which was founded by the Trump ally Marc Kasowitz, each collected $10 million.

Tenants of Trump properties: Nearly 100 businesses listing an address at 40 Wall Street, a building with ties to the Trump Organization, received a total of more than $34 million in loans.

The program's effectiveness is in question. The payroll provider Gusto found that the chances that workers would lose their job at a company that took a P.P.P. loan — which was forgivable if companies kept employees on their books for a period of time — increased by 25 percent during the week that the loan's restrictions ended.

Some 232,000 jobs may have been eliminated as the restrictions expired. "Companies really emerged in no better shape," said Luke Pardue, a Gusto economist. "A lot of that is due to the fact that the economy is in no better shape."

Largest upward transfer of wealth in history.

Edit: the entire Cares act, not just the PPP loans

[MU82]

Largest upward transfer of wealth in history.

Edit: the entire Cares act, not just the PPP loans

Yes, it appears to even have surpassed the Tax Cuts For Billionaires Act in that regard.

[jesmu84]

https://youtu.be/SKkX5SInOCI

The optimist in me says the Dems just messed up 6 weeks ago and have now lost a significant amount of their negotiating power and will have to agree to a measly stimulus plan that won't help many.

The pessimist in me says the Dems intentionally didn't do anything 6 weeks ago because they didn't want to as they have no real interest in helping individuals and the corporations/wall street already got their money in the spring.

[Hards Alumni]

https://youtu.be/SKkX5SInOCI

The optimist in me says the Dems just messed up 6 weeks ago and have now lost a significant amount of their negotiating power and will have to agree to a measly stimulus plan that won't help many.

The pessimist in me says the Dems intentionally didn't do anything 6 weeks ago because they didn't want to as they have no real interest in helping individuals and the corporations/wall street already got their money in the spring.

Here is my take: It's both.

[jesmu84]

Here is my take: It's both.

[jesmu84]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/12/01/ppp-sba-data/

Whoops!

[Jockey]

Surprisingly the trump and kushner families received money.

[GooooMarquette]

Surprisingly the trump and kushner families received money.

I'm sure they'll do the right thing and give it to those in need.

[Jockey]

We know who wants to get something done and who doesn't. Yesterday, republicans made a motion to adjourn in the House.

They just don't care.

[JWags85]

We know who wants to get something done and who doesn't. Yesterday, republicans made a motion to adjourn in the House.

They just don't care.

Or, like Hards said, it's both. I know in your mind all Republicans are vile serpents, but both sides have been absurdly pigheaded and selfish and pathetic. Acting like the lack of stimulus is just a "the GOP is callous and disgusting" issue is willfully biased. Pelosi and company aren't some altruistic public benefit crusaders who have tried all they could against the evil machine

[MU82]

The House passed a bill to decriminalize pot, but McConnell probably won't even give it a go in the Senate. He and the rest of the party are using COVID-19 as an excuse, saying that any legislation besides a stimulus package is a "distraction."

1. Walk and chew gum at the same time. You are well-paid, theoretically talented public servants. You can do two things simultaneously.

2. You don't even have to do two things simultaneously. You have different committees focused on different issues. Reading potential laws and voting on them takes little time; lots of lawmakers often admit that they don't even read the laws they pass or reject.

The House bill no doubt needs a little tweaking (so they could hire tweakers - ha!) but this is a lame-arse excuse to ignore what would be good legislation that is supported by a majority of Americans.

[forgetful]

https://youtu.be/SKkX5SInOCI

The optimist in me says the Dems just messed up 6 weeks ago and have now lost a significant amount of their negotiating power and will have to agree to a measly stimulus plan that won't help many.

The pessimist in me says the Dems intentionally didn't do anything 6 weeks ago because they didn't want to as they have no real interest in helping individuals and the corporations/wall street already got their money in the spring.

I know a big issue was the insistence by the GOP of blanket immunity for all businesses regarding COVID liability.

I believe that the current negotiated bipartisan bill has removed the permanent liability waiver, and instead only has a temporary one, to allow states to draft their own legislation.

That is a big change, and changes the calculus for the House leadership in many regards.

[jesmu84]

I know a big issue was the insistence by the GOP of blanket immunity for all businesses regarding COVID liability.

I believe that the current negotiated bipartisan bill has removed the permanent liability waiver, and instead only has a temporary one, to allow states to draft their own legislation.

That is a big change, and changes the calculus for the House leadership in many regards.

That's accurate, it appears.

But the lack of support for individual citizens is my big sticking point

[forgetful]

That's accurate, it appears.

But the lack of support for individual citizens is my big sticking point

I agree with you. I'm just going to give them a smidgeon of a benefit of the doubt and hope they deliver to the individual citizens.

[jesmu84]

This is becoming a self-created disaster:

https://twitter.com/jakecoco/status/1334993874276786178?s=19

https://youtu.be/epzPSuvdUe4

Longer video with commentary: https://youtu.be/8aOLuf-qlko

[The Sultan]

This is becoming a self-created disaster:

https://twitter.com/jakecoco/status/1334993874276786178?s=19

https://youtu.be/epzPSuvdUe4

Longer video with commentary: https://youtu.be/8aOLuf-qlko

One is a film company that created an outdoor space for people to eat. The other is a restaurant. These are different things.

[tower912]

Locally, on-line there is a carry out challenge to try to inspire more people to get carry out form the restaurants.    Which is cool, but we were already doing that.

[GooooMarquette]

One is a film company that created an outdoor space for people to eat. The other is a restaurant. These are different things.

But if the restaurant patrons and film crew were held to the same rules, the risks should be basically the same.

Seems like just another example of a big $$$$$ business getting to play by different rules than mom and pop shops.

[MUBurrow]

Two things make America incapable of dealing with this virus without getting bailed out by a vaccine.  One is that we define freedom as the absence of any element of collectivism whatsoever. The other is that we'd rather die than just give people money, even if it is the economically rational thing to do.

[jesmu84]

Shut things down and pay people.

Or open everything.

Keeping only some things open (largest corporations/organizations) funnels more money to the top.

[forgetful]

But if the restaurant patrons and film crew were held to the same rules, the risks should be basically the same.

Seems like just another example of a big $$$$$ business getting to play by different rules than mom and pop shops.

The only thing I can think of, is they aren't being held to "the same rules" though. The film companies are required to regularly test all staff/crew/etc for COVID-19 and have plans in place to mitigate any spread.

The restaurant does not. So in theory, the film company can stop any infected people from being present, the restaurant has no idea on whether staff, or patrons are infected.

Extremely terrible optics, but I do understand a bit key differences. I bet if she proposed to the mayor, that all patrons would be given a rapid 15-minute test prior to being seated, they would be allowed to stay open (obviously ridiculous, but that is essentially what the film companies are having to do).