Protests

[Pakuni]

We've got some tough guys out there.

Rex Chapman🏇🏼 @RexChapman
This is madness. A young woman sitting in the street — in obvious distress. A policeman kicks her in the face. We're apparently not better than this... pic.twitter.com/CntGgvtqbP

[The Sultan]

Legalized drugs, legal prostitution, abolition of prisons...that is going to make for a better society, not to mention unarmed community patrols; they will keep the peace against well armed gang factions in many of the communities? Will the more affluent communities have to hire their own security forces to keep them safe as there will be no police force? All the "solutions" are seen through the black experience exclusively. Its like all cops are white. I don't see this bringing us all together, it just furthers the racial divide.

So what is the solution then?  We have a multi-generational, systemic problem.  I mean, maybe we do need to base some "solutions" on the black experience because the "law and order" ones aren't working very well.  We have incarcerated an enormous portion of our population and have a problem with cops beating up the citizenry.  It's not a good place to be in.

[WarriorDad]

Just curious: which scandal led you to lose your respect for Trump? I would give you options to choose from, but the list would be much too long for this forum.

As for Theranos, Elizabeth Holmes was a master manipulator, who had everyone from federal regulators to Walgreens executives to reputable scientists conned with her testing scheme. That does not excuse Mattis, but puts him in the more appropriate context of being conned by a person who had nearly everybody conned.

How can I lose respect for someone that I never had respect for (referring to Trump)? 

I would invite you to watch the series on her that is on HBO.  She conned those that were easily conned, but there were enough people internally calling out the red flags for a long time.  People looked the other way to make money, Mattis is no exception. 

[Hards Alumni]

Legalized drugs, legal prostitution, abolition of prisons...that is going to make for a better society, not to mention unarmed community patrols; they will keep the peace against well armed gang factions in many of the communities? Will the more affluent communities have to hire their own security forces to keep them safe as there will be no police force? All the "solutions" are seen through the black experience exclusively. Its like all cops are white. I don't see this bringing us all together, it just furthers the racial divide.

Why shouldn't we legalize drugs and prostitution?  Why should sex workers be forced to work in the shadows and endanger their lives?  Why should be imprison our citizens for non-violent crimes?  We focus our culture way too much on punishment and retribution rather than rehabilitation.  Have you ever asked yourself why? 

I don't want to lead you to an answer too much, but we do it because we don't value lives equally.  Incarceration should be the punishment of last resort.  It not only destroys the person who is imprisoned, but it punishes the family of that person unduly as well.  This perpetuates a cycle of inequality that we see laid bare in America every day.  And this doesn't even get into the privatization of the US prison system... Which is the worst idea we have had as a country since slavery was legal.

What about our country screams, "This is working well!".  It's not.  The system is designed to encourage systemic racism.



Notice anything interesting about that map?  You should.



This one?  How do we compare?  Is our crime rate lower because of mass incarceration?

Please, I beg you to logically defend any of this.  The US judicial system desperately needs reform.

[tower912]

Poor Francis called the bishop of El Paso and thanked him for leading a BLM protest as well as taking a knee for 8:46.

[Galway Eagle]

Was thinking of ways to peacefully protest that would actually hurt police forces enough to Force change. If an entire city just stopped paying parking tickets or something would that make a Big enough financial statement to force real change?

[muwarrior69]

Why shouldn't we legalize drugs and prostitution?  Why should sex workers be forced to work in the shadows and endanger their lives?  Why should be imprison our citizens for non-violent crimes? We focus our culture way too much on punishment and retribution rather than rehabilitation.  Have you ever asked yourself why? 

I don't want to lead you to an answer too much, but we do it because we don't value lives equally.  Incarceration should be the punishment of last resort.  It not only destroys the person who is imprisoned, but it punishes the family of that person unduly as well.  This perpetuates a cycle of inequality that we see laid bare in America every day.  And this doesn't even get into the privatization of the US prison system... Which is the worst idea we have had as a country since slavery was legal.

What about our country screams, "This is working well!".  It's not.  The system is designed to encourage systemic racism.



Notice anything interesting about that map?  You should.



This one?  How do we compare?  Is our crime rate lower because of mass incarceration?

Please, I beg you to logically defend any of this.  The US judicial system desperately needs reform.

So no prison for B&Es, embezzlement, perjury, the list can go on.

[wadesworld]

https://www.instagram.com/p/CBD16HaHnij/?igshid=i6u2r41ba1yp

Excellent.

[MU82]

Just heard an NPR report that hundreds of journalists have been attacked, mostly by police, just for doing their jobs during these protests. Several attacks have been caught on video.

It's almost as if some very high ranking official has repeatedly demonized the media as "the enemy of the people," while also encouraging cops to "please don't be too nice" as they carry out their duties.

But that couldn't be, because it would be third-world strongman dictator stuff, and we don't have anybody like that here in America.

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

Why shouldn't we legalize drugs and prostitution?  Why should sex workers be forced to work in the shadows and endanger their lives?  Why should be imprison our citizens for non-violent crimes?  We focus our culture way too much on punishment and retribution rather than rehabilitation.  Have you ever asked yourself why? 

I don't want to lead you to an answer too much, but we do it because we don't value lives equally.  Incarceration should be the punishment of last resort.  It not only destroys the person who is imprisoned, but it punishes the family of that person unduly as well.  This perpetuates a cycle of inequality that we see laid bare in America every day.  And this doesn't even get into the privatization of the US prison system... Which is the worst idea we have had as a country since slavery was legal.

What about our country screams, "This is working well!".  It's not.  The system is designed to encourage systemic racism.



Notice anything interesting about that map?  You should.



This one?  How do we compare?  Is our crime rate lower because of mass incarceration?

Please, I beg you to logically defend any of this.  The US judicial system desperately needs reform.

There was a news story yesterday that Connecticut has it's lowest incarceration rate in 30 years and is still dropping.
State by state.

[Hards Alumni]

So no prison for B&Es, embezzlement, perjury, the list can go on.

Correct.  Sending a person to prison doesn't solve the problem, it usually only creates more problems.  Our society is obsessed with retribution and incapacitation, when we should be obsessed with rehabilitation.

The 5 Sentencing Objectives
Taken together, those principles – of instinctual reaction or discipline – translate easily into the 5 sentencing objectives our society relies upon when punishing those who break the law. Indeed, in the same way we keep our home civilized through the appropriate discipline of children, our communities remain civilized through appropriate criminal punishments. Accordingly, those five sentencing objectives are:

Retribution. Victims and their families are injured, either physically or emotionally, by a crime. Just in the same way we instinctually want to "hit back," the criminal justice system uses sentencing as a way to "hit" a criminal back. While the punishment may not match the crime committed, it is punishment (i.e., retribution) nonetheless. As noted above, committing a crime will be met with the state doing something the criminal does not like – typically in the form of taking away freedom, or ordering stiff monetary penalties.

Deterrence. Another objective is both general and specific deterrence. Providing punishment for a crime demonstrates to the public generally that there are consequences for committing a crime. That puts the public on notice of what the boundaries of appropriate behavior are in society. In addition, the opposite side of the same deterrence coin is to send a message to the individual criminal that there are consequences for breaking the law. The hope is that the individual will choose not to commit a crime in the future as a result of his punishment.

Incapacitation. Our criminal laws and the criminal justice system are meant to protect the public, to keep society civilized. Thus, another sentencing objective must be to protect the public if necessary through sentencing. As such, if a person commits a crime that demonstrates to society that the person cannot be trusted to behave appropriately or cannot control their actions sufficiently, then a person can be taken out of society, or incapacitated, for a period of time or permanently. The ultimate form of removing a person from society is the death penalty. A sentence of life imprisonment, however, is becoming the more favored approach in virtually all industrialized nations.

Rehabilitation. Those who have the "put 'em in jail, and throw away the key" mentality often forget about this important sentencing objective. In fact, many participants in the criminal justice system forget about this sentencing objective as well. It should not be forgotten that many people can change, if given the chance and the right circumstances. Accordingly, sentencing a person should be done with an eye towards helping him turn his life around if that is possible. These days it is becoming clear that America's experiment with mass incarceration is a complete failure. Hopefully, rehabilitation will truly become a viable sentencing objective again, and people will be allowed to turn their lives around and rejoin society as productive citizens.

Restitution.  In addition to punishing the criminal, another sentencing objective is making the victim whole, to the extent possible. Restitution can come in the form of restoring or repairing any damage inflicted on the victim, i.e., bringing the victim back, as much as possible, to his or her pre-crime status. With some crimes, such as theft or burglary, restitution is relatively easy. The criminal can be ordered to pay back the victim, or fix the broken window. With other crimes, of course, it may be impossible to make the victim whole. In those tragic cases, perhaps the punishment itself will bring some restorative justice to a victim's, or the victim's family's, emotional state.

https://sentencing.net/sentencing/sentencing-objectives

[GooooMarquette]

Just heard an NPR report that hundreds of journalists have been attacked, mostly by police, just for doing their jobs during these protests. Several attacks have been caught on video.

It's almost as if some very high ranking official has repeatedly demonized the media as "the enemy of the people," while also encouraging cops to "please don't be too nice" as they carry out their duties.

But that couldn't be, because it would be third-world strongman dictator stuff, and we don't have anybody like that here in America.

Poor police just defending themselves.

https://www.sbs.com.au/news/donald-trump-s-press-secretary-says-police-who-attacked-australian-journalists-had-right-to-defend-themselves

Again, I am not making this stuff up.

[Warriors4ever]

https://www.wivb.com/news/local-news/buffalo/entire-bpd-emergency-response-team-resigns-in-support-of-suspended-officers/

50+ police officers resigned from the Buffalo emergency response unit ( but not from the force) in support of two officers suspended for pushing a 75 year old protester to the ground. If you watch the video, not only is he pushed, but they ignore him as he lies on the ground with a head injury.

[pbiflyer]

https://www.wivb.com/news/local-news/buffalo/entire-bpd-emergency-response-team-resigns-in-support-of-suspended-officers/

50+ police officers resigned from the Buffalo emergency response unit ( but not from the force) in support of two officers suspended for pushing a 75 year old protester to the ground. If you watch the video, not only is he pushed, but they ignore him as he lies on the ground with a head injury.

It is like the police are out to prove the protesters right. None of those scumbags should ever work in law enforcement again.

[reinko]

https://www.wivb.com/news/local-news/buffalo/entire-bpd-emergency-response-team-resigns-in-support-of-suspended-officers/

50+ police officers resigned from the Buffalo emergency response unit ( but not from the force) in support of two officers suspended for pushing a 75 year old protester to the ground. If you watch the video, not only is he pushed, but they ignore him as he lies on the ground with a head injury.

Bad orchard

[Pakuni]

https://www.wivb.com/news/local-news/buffalo/entire-bpd-emergency-response-team-resigns-in-support-of-suspended-officers/

50+ police officers resigned from the Buffalo emergency response unit ( but not from the force) in support of two officers suspended for pushing a 75 year old protester to the ground. If you watch the video, not only is he pushed, but they ignore him as he lies on the ground with a head injury.

Very brave of them to quit a voluntary assignment.

On the downside, senior citizens will be running rampant in Buffalo tonight.


And the union has weighed in with typical stupidity. They were "simply following orders" and "simply doing their job."
I've heard that somewhere before.

[GooooMarquette]

https://www.wivb.com/news/local-news/buffalo/entire-bpd-emergency-response-team-resigns-in-support-of-suspended-officers/

50+ police officers resigned from the Buffalo emergency response unit ( but not from the force) in support of two officers suspended for pushing a 75 year old protester to the ground. If you watch the video, not only is he pushed, but they ignore him as he lies on the ground with a head injury.

How could they possibly defend what happened? Or maybe it's just a CYA move so they don't get in the middle of a protest where they may overreact.

"Lead me not into temptation...."

[pbiflyer]

They were following orders. Would love to see a copy of those orders. Attack unarmed senior citizens?

[Warriors4ever]

No, their union president made a statement.
Definitely in support of the officers.
At first the department claimed the guy tripped, until more video came out.

[MU82]

Poor police just defending themselves.

https://www.sbs.com.au/news/donald-trump-s-press-secretary-says-police-who-attacked-australian-journalists-had-right-to-defend-themselves

Again, I am not making this stuff up.

Effen sad.

McEnany is the perfect press secretary for her emperor. Spicer grew very uncomfortable lying about everything, and Sanders was never comfortable speaking publicly or interacting with people. But this one ... she loves the cameras and she LOVES lying on behalf of the Mad King.

Or as he might say, "People say she lies very strongly and powerfully."

[Warriors4ever]

But but she said she would never lie.....

[wadesworld]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vanityfair.com/news/2020/06/trump-is-literally-building-a-wall-around-the-white-house/amp

The Bunker Boy built a wall!

Coward.

[MU82]

Historically, racial and identity politics have been winners for the GOP. Bush Sr. famously used "look at the bad black man" to help rout Dukakis, Nixon fanned those flames too, and the current president seems to be trying to do the same.

However, new polls show that might no longer be the case, indicating a significant change in Americans' attitudes from just a few years ago.

In a Monmouth University poll released this week, 76% of Americans surveyed — including 71 percent of white people — called racism and discrimination "a big problem" in the United States. That's a 26-percentage-point spike since 2015. In the poll, 57% said demonstrators' anger was fully justified, and another 21 percent called it somewhat justified.

https://www.monmouth.edu/polling-institute/documents/monmouthpoll_us_060220.pdf/?campaign_id=56&emc=edit_cn_20200605&instance_id=19112&nl=on-politics-with-lisa-lerer&regi_id=108420427&segment_id=30158&te=1&user_id=d36dcf821462fdd16ec3636710a855fa

In that poll and another released this week by CBS News, 57% said police officers were generally more likely to treat black people unfairly than to mistreat white people.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/americans-see-differences-in-how-police-treat-whites-and-blacks-cbs-news-poll/?campaign_id=56&emc=edit_cn_20200605&instance_id=19112&nl=on-politics-with-lisa-lerer&regi_id=108420427&segment_id=30158&te=1&user_id=d36dcf821462fdd16ec3636710a855fa

In both surveys, about half of white people said so. This was a drastic change, particularly for white Americans, who have not historically said they believed that black people continued to face pervasive discrimination.

"There's definitely been a seismic shift in the country," said Steve Phillips, a civil rights lawyer and political analyst who founded the advocacy group Democracy in Color.

He pointed to what might have sounded like a radical demand just a few years ago — cutting funding for police departments and redirecting it toward social services — and noted that it has now been openly embraced by some mayors and police chiefs, in cities including Los Angeles: "I was interested to see how that would play itself out, and now they're doing it — it's actually happening."

When Obama took office in 2009, just 36% of white Americans polled by Pew said the country needed to do more to ensure that black people gained equal rights. By 2017, four years after the start of the Black Lives Matter movement, that number had leapt to 54% of white people.

[Jockey]

No, their union president made a statement.
Definitely in support of the officers.
At first the department claimed the guy tripped, until more video came out.

The big difference now is Covid. Millions are out of work and paying attention. Unbelievably, almost 70 million have viewed the video. I'm sure some Trump supporters love to see the old guy sent flying, but the huge majority of those 70 million are appalled.

[The Sultan]

Fox focusing on what's important.