Top of the Food Chain

[Lennys Tap]

So now we're not even blaming Buzz's last season for Wojo's lackluster tenure at Marquette.  We're blaming the fact that he was ever hired to begin with.

We didn't lose to DePaul last night because Buzz got hired 11 years ago.  We lost because our coach who's been here for 6 years is arguably the worst coach in the conference.

+1000. To say that hiring the 2nd most successful coach in MU history was our biggest mistake is CRAZY. So is assuming TB ends up at MU if we don't hire Buzz.

BTW, the absolutely awful Texas A+M team Buzz inherited just ended Auburn's long home court winning streak (17 or 19 games).

[Room510]

Mark Miller tweeted a link to this article today.  Maybe it doesn't always take 5 years.  Some Buzz like qualities.

https://m.lasvegassun.com/news/2020/mar/04/tj-otzelberger-turning-around-unlv-in-a-hurry/

[real chili 83]

Interesting read on the situation. Maybe Scholl would look at an assistant from ND? Rod Balanis fits the bill.

You're not from around here, aren't you?

[🏀]

You're not from around here, aren't you?

ND sucks

[Lennys Tap]

Mark Miller tweeted a link to this article today.  Maybe it doesn't always take 5 years.  Some Buzz like qualities.

https://m.lasvegassun.com/news/2020/mar/04/tj-otzelberger-turning-around-unlv-in-a-hurry/

Sign him up the second UNLV is eliminated from the tournament.

[Silent Verbal]

He turned down Marquette to pursue LSU, then called back to ask if the job was still available a half-hour after Buzz signed.

At the time, I was in shock Crean left after all the jobs he had flirted with and not left, but even more shocked they handed the reins to the first year assistant less than a week later. It was rushed, and even if you end up with Buzz, I felt that wasn't a thorough enough search, especially when you ended up with a future Hall of Famer calling to ask for your job.

Okay, so MU offered him the job and he said no.  What else were they supposed to do but pursue other candidates and make an offer if they liked what they saw?  They had no idea TB would change his mind.  He'd literally told them he didn't want the job.

And you know what?  Maybe that process wasn't as rushed as you think it was.  Maybe Buzz just blew them away in the interview.  After all, he's a top 15 coach in the country.  He was a home run hire for Marquette.

[5DollarPitcher]

Okay, so MU offered him the job and he said no.  What else were they supposed to do but pursue other candidates and make an offer if they liked what they saw?  They had no idea TB would change his mind.  He'd literally told them he didn't want the job.

And you know what?  Maybe that process wasn't as rushed as you think it was.  Maybe Buzz just blew them away in the interview.  After all, he's a top 15 coach in the country.  He was a home run hire for Marquette.

Exactly.  And 14 other teams could have had Giannis for free.  That doesn't mean the guy they drafted ruined their entire franchise.  Especially teams that got a solid player like Oladipo or Steven Adams.

Some people will do anything to convince themselves Buzz was bad for our program.  He left like a jerk.  Yeah it sucks.  Let's move on and figure out how we're going to be successful moving forward.

[keefe]

Okay, so MU offered him the job and he said no.  What else were they supposed to do but pursue other candidates and make an offer if they liked what they saw?  They had no idea TB would change his mind.  He'd literally told them he didn't want the job.

And you know what?  Maybe that process wasn't as rushed as you think it was.  Maybe Buzz just blew them away in the interview.  After all, he's a top 15 coach in the country.  He was a home run hire for Marquette.

Buzz was an outstanding hire by Marquette. The most successful coach at MU not named Al.

His teams were talented but, more importantly, they were tough. They played an exciting brand of ball that was fun to watch.

F#ck The Poet and Larry Williams.

[Lennys Tap]

He turned down Marquette to pursue LSU, then called back to ask if the job was still available a half-hour after Buzz signed.

This is your unsourced story/rumor. Even if true, he wasn't exactly "all in" on coming home. Turned down a solid offer from MU to take a flyer on a job at a football school with very little basketball history - but when they have no interest he'll take Marquette cause it means escaping Pullman, Wa. Sounds like he would have been out of Milwaukee too at the first opportunity.

[5DollarPitcher]

This is your unsourced story/rumor. Even if true, he wasn't exactly "all in" on coming home. Turned down a solid offer from MU to take a flyer on a job at a football school with very little basketball history - but when they have no interest he'll take Marquette cause it means escaping Pullman, Wa. Sounds like he would have been out of Milwaukee too at the first opportunity.

No, no.  TB would have won a national championship in Milwaukee.  Ipso facto - Buzz cost us a national champioship.  unnatural carnal knowledge Buzz.

[keefe]

This is your unsourced story/rumor.

Well put, Lenny. Sums it up precisely.

[1SE]

I'd love to hear people's analysis on why they believe TJO would be an upgrade on Wojo.

He's won championships as a HC? With a team that had just been D2?

[Galway Eagle]

This is your unsourced story/rumor. Even if true, he wasn't exactly "all in" on coming home. Turned down a solid offer from MU to take a flyer on a job at a football school with very little basketball history - but when they have no interest he'll take Marquette cause it means escaping Pullman, Wa. Sounds like he would have been out of Milwaukee too at the first opportunity.

LSU has a very underrated basketball history. More Final Fours than us and a player that's at least on Wades level on the MT Rushmore of greats

[1SE]

The more I read the more I like this guy

"Other coaches may have preached patience after taking over a roster in flux, but Otzelberger never asked for a grace period when he accepted the UNLV job last April. He simply recruited the best team available for 2019-20 and then set about coaching them into a respectable unit."

Have to assume that MU would be a dream job for him (maybe along with ISU where wife is BB alum). Let's grab him before he gets pulled into P6 job and becomes much more costly.

Seriously, after starting the season 4-8 he has won 6 of the last 7, including the road win over SDSU. Mirror opposite to Wojo's collapse.   

After leading SDSU to two tournament championships (and NCAA appearances) and two league championships in 3 years.

[NotAnAlum]

  This thread started out as rational for why it could make sense for MU to fire Wojo now assuming the slide plays out.  While I see the logic and it would be great to have a shot at Beilein I don't see anyway this happens.  Remember that just a few weeks ago MU was ranked 18 and looked poised for a top 4 BE finish and a high Tourne seed.  Wojo appears to have locked up the recruiting class that was one of the key things he would have been judged on this year.  Assuming MU limps into the NCAAs and then loses in the first round I just don't think that will be enough to convince the people who must be convinced to pull the trigger and be ready to recruit a new coach around the final 4 when this stuff normally gets done.
  I think its far more likely and likely and probably better for MU if he stays 1 more year.  Assuming this season ends poorly that combined with Markus leaving will cause a number of STH not to renew.  I've already been told by a couple people they won't renew next year.  I significant drop in STH is going to get the admin and board's attention.  That should cause them to start putting feelers out to coaches agents to see who might be willing to consider MU.
  At the same time the recruiting class will enroll.   MU will be talented but young and will be picked toward the bottom of the BE.  Assuming Wojo doesn't exceed expectations (which he has yet to do) thats where they will finish missing the NCAAs.  I think that is the point that the MU admin is forced to pull the trigger.
  I know no one wants to wait another year but I'd be shocked if they moved more quickly.  And honestly getting this new class in gives the new guy something to work with assuming he can keep them.  Next season will be wash out if there is a coaching change anyway and if I had to screw up a recruiting class I'd rather it be the one needed to replace Theo, Cain and Koby.     

[Silent Verbal]

The more I read the more I like this guy

"Other coaches may have preached patience after taking over a roster in flux, but Otzelberger never asked for a grace period when he accepted the UNLV job last April. He simply recruited the best team available for 2019-20 and then set about coaching them into a respectable unit."

Have to assume that MU would be a dream job for him (maybe along with ISU where wife is BB alum). Let's grab him before he gets pulled into P6 job and becomes much more costly.

Seriously, after starting the season 4-8 he has won 6 of the last 7, including the road win over SDSU. Mirror opposite to Wojo's collapse.   

After leading SDSU to two tournament championships (and NCAA appearances) and two league championships in 3 years.

The first paragraph is the most telling, as some believe Wojo, being a first time head coach, is still in his grace period.  Hell, he seems to think so, too.  He's talked about how much work there was to do when he got there, in his fourth season he said we were the youngest team in the oldest league.  TJO seems to have that Buzz mentality where each year is its own thing and you try to win as much as possible, because there's no telling what next year will bring.

[1SE]

  This thread started out as rational for why it could make sense for MU to fire Wojo now assuming the slide plays out.  While I see the logic and it would be great to have a shot at Beilein I don't see anyway this happens.  Remember that just a few weeks ago MU was ranked 18 and looked poised for a top 4 BE finish and a high Tourne seed.  Wojo appears to have locked up the recruiting class that was one of the key things he would have been judged on this year.  Assuming MU limps into the NCAAs and then loses in the first round I just don't think that will be enough to convince the people who must be convinced to pull the trigger and be ready to recruit a new coach around the final 4 when this stuff normally gets done.
  I think its far more likely and likely and probably better for MU if he stays 1 more year.  Assuming this season ends poorly that combined with Markus leaving will cause a number of STH not to renew.  I've already been told by a couple people they won't renew next year.  I significant drop in STH is going to get the admin and board's attention.  That should cause them to start putting feelers out to coaches agents to see who might be willing to consider MU.
  At the same time the recruiting class will enroll.   MU will be talented but young and will be picked toward the bottom of the BE.  Assuming Wojo doesn't exceed expectations (which he has yet to do) thats where they will finish missing the NCAAs.  I think that is the point that the MU admin is forced to pull the trigger.
  I know no one wants to wait another year but I'd be shocked if they moved more quickly.  And honestly getting this new class in gives the new guy something to work with assuming he can keep them.  Next season will be wash out if there is a coaching change anyway and if I had to screw up a recruiting class I'd rather it be the one needed to replace Theo, Cain and Koby.   

Wojo is the embodiment of the sunk cost fallacy.

[1SE]

The first paragraph is the most telling, as some believe Wojo, being a first time head coach, is still in his grace period.  Hell, he seems to think so, too.  He's talked about how much work there was to do when he got there, in his fourth season he said we were the youngest team in the oldest league.  TJO seems to have that Buzz mentality where each year is its own thing and you try to win as much as possible, because there's no telling what next year will bring.

Exactly. Seems like he has Buzz-like tenacity (and maybe OCD) but he's a Milwaukee native and (maybe) can run a clean program? It's like matching the best of Wojo (boy scout who the admin loves) with the best of Buzz (tunnel focused on winning with whatever hand he has).

[brewcity77]

This is your unsourced story/rumor. Even if true, he wasn't exactly "all in" on coming home. Turned down a solid offer from MU to take a flyer on a job at a football school with very little basketball history - but when they have no interest he'll take Marquette cause it means escaping Pullman, Wa. Sounds like he would have been out of Milwaukee too at the first opportunity.

Just like Shaka! How dare he let his wife's influence come into his thought process! Who needs him?

[Lennys Tap]

LSU has a very underrated basketball history. More Final Fours than us and a player that's at least on Wades level on the MT Rushmore of greats

They have made 4 FFs (one in 1953). Played 6 games (2 for 3rd place, when that was a "thing"), lost all 6. Never made an NIT final, in their only semifinal they lost to us by 22. So underrated, but nothing compared to their football program.

[Galway Eagle]

They have made 4 FFs (one in 1953). Played 6 games (2 for 3rd place, when that was a "thing"), lost all 6. Never made an NIT final, in their only semifinal they lost to us by 22. So underrated, but nothing compared to their football program.

Didn't say it was anything compared to the football program. Only meant to say they had much more history than you were crediting them with.

[Lennys Tap]

Didn't say it was anything compared to the football program. Only meant to say they had much more history than you were crediting them with.

Poor choice of words on my part. "Very little" is inaccurate. Their b-ball program has had periods of success and failure.

[The Sultan]

Sign him up the second UNLV is eliminated from the tournament.

They won't.  I have a feeling even if Wojo leaves, and TJO wants to come here, Marquette won't touch him.

[1SE]

They won't.  I have a feeling even if Wojo leaves, and TJO wants to come here, Marquette won't touch him.

Why?

[The Sultan]

Why?

I just have a feeling with his Juco background and how he helped ISU rely on transfers, that MU isn't going to be interested.