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Author Topic: Wojo's Dirty End of Game  (Read 4784 times)

Silent Verbal

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Re: Wojo's Dirty End of Game
« Reply #75 on: February 23, 2020, 04:34:19 PM »
It would be more than just a couple of yahoos....it’s the overall nonsense.  The same one other coaches at MU have told me about when I worked there and after I left.  We are overly entitled and stuck on what happened a long time ago.  It’s a very good job, but people don’t stay because when you win it isn’t enough and people start getting that tingle down their leg....anD if you don’t win enough then you are out anyway.  As one coach told me years ago....it’s a blessing and a curse that a number of other programs don’t have.  You become a victim of any success you create.

Please.  Read any other college sports message board and you’ll find the same stuff you see on Scoop.  Slurpers, haters, and people who take the middle ground.  Our fan base is worse than some, not as bad as others. 

All professions have things they gripe about.  For instance, someone who works in advertising might moan about the ridiculous demands of a client.  Service industry folks go on and on about how rude their customers can be.  For coaches, fans are one of the many things they have to deal with, and probably often complain about to each other.  What I’m trying to say is, your conversations with those coaches about the MU fan base are very likely not unique or special.  They’re no different than a waiter complaining about a guy who sent his food back.

And if those coaches don’t like it, you know what?  There’s *tons* of other guys willing to take a shot at a big job like the one they have for a fat salary like they’re getting.  Wojo is lucky to be at Marquette.  He’s not doing us a favor by coaching here.

Goose

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Re: Wojo's Dirty End of Game
« Reply #76 on: February 23, 2020, 04:55:36 PM »
Tower

If you are correct, we should expect a ton of school’s chasing after our HC in a few weeks. With the resume you outlined I would assume every big job opening will be looking at Wojo. Good for him for putting himself in such a desirable place.

JWags85

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Re: Wojo's Dirty End of Game
« Reply #77 on: February 23, 2020, 04:56:43 PM »
Lavall Jordan pressed down 30 today against Creighton. Wouldn’t let Wojo outdo him

tower912

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Re: Wojo's Dirty End of Game
« Reply #78 on: February 23, 2020, 05:03:32 PM »
Tower

If you are correct, we should expect a ton of school’s chasing after our HC in a few weeks. With the resume you outlined I would assume every big job opening will be looking at Wojo. Good for him for putting himself in such a desirable place.
If Herman is to be believed, Va Tech came sniffing last year.   So, what programs in Power 5 conferences will have openings during the off-season?   I suspect he will want to stay East (without any definitive reasons).   So, ACC or SEC, plus Maryland.  Then figure out what they want and how much they are willing to spend.   It is certainly possible that one of the makes a serious run at Steve.
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

Fluffy Blue Monster

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Re: Wojo's Dirty End of Game
« Reply #79 on: February 23, 2020, 05:13:42 PM »
If Herman is to be believed, Va Tech came sniffing last year.   So, what programs in Power 5 conferences will have openings during the off-season?   I suspect he will want to stay East (without any definitive reasons).   So, ACC or SEC, plus Maryland.  Then figure out what they want and how much they are willing to spend.   It is certainly possible that one of the makes a serious run at Steve.

Wake Forest.
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tower912

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Re: Wojo's Dirty End of Game
« Reply #80 on: February 23, 2020, 05:16:32 PM »
Perhaps.  If offered, does he go?
« Last Edit: February 23, 2020, 05:19:11 PM by tower912 »
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

Bad_Reporter

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Re: Wojo's Dirty End of Game
« Reply #81 on: February 23, 2020, 05:23:38 PM »
Perhaps.  If offered, does he go?

I believe he does.  Goose has said it best all year.   He can cash in another 4-6 years make millions and then he’s set. 

Wojo whether you like him or not doesn’t have thick skin.  He’s made it publicly known numerous times he has had issues with some fans and some of the press.

From what I see, he doesn’t seem to do well with criticism.  I’d bet he darts

WhiteTrash

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Re: Wojo's Dirty End of Game
« Reply #82 on: February 23, 2020, 05:41:26 PM »
You were the one who said I wasn't a fan of Marquette University....which is an off the wall ridiculous statement.  Don't come at me with "whatever".

Did I say if Wojo leaves (could happen, wouldn't blame him) or gets fired (not going to happen) means the end of MU basketball....also a completely false statement. I do, however, believe it means further delaying stability which is an absolute fact.  Throw in this stupidity about free agency nonsense and it's a recipe for disaster.

Enjoy your day and if you could please stop with lying about what people haven't said...thanks.
I said 'whatever' because you act like Wojo is the best MU could ever hope to have as a coach and these are the best results MU fans should ever hope for. You sound like the cry babies that said MU and the Big East were toast when SU, UofL, UConn, etc. left.

Stability in a program is great, but it is easy to have. Just never fire your coach. DePaul has stability. The Bengals had stability with Marvin Lewis. LA Clipper had stability with Elgin Baylor in charge from 1986-2008.

Also, please read my posts carefully when you use the term 'false statement', I said 'virtually' ... look it up, it's a material modifier of my statement.

Also, I made no reference to 'free agency', so I have no idea what you are talking about.

Cheeks

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Re: Wojo's Dirty End of Game
« Reply #83 on: February 23, 2020, 06:05:15 PM »
I said 'whatever' because you act like Wojo is the best MU could ever hope to have as a coach and these are the best results MU fans should ever hope for. You sound like the cry babies that said MU and the Big East were toast when SU, UofL, UConn, etc. left.

Stability in a program is great, but it is easy to have. Just never fire your coach. DePaul has stability. The Bengals had stability with Marvin Lewis. LA Clipper had stability with Elgin Baylor in charge from 1986-2008.

Also, please read my posts carefully when you use the term 'false statement', I said 'virtually' ... look it up, it's a material modifier of my statement.

Also, I made no reference to 'free agency', so I have no idea what you are talking about.

Free agency was related to other comments not made by you.

And no, just keeping someone around does not equal stability.

Stability is going to four straight post season tournaments with three of them the NCAAs, but we don’t like that.

Do I think MU can do better...yes.  Do I think MU will do better...I don’t know but we have been good enough not to start the clock all over again....and if we do and some guy comes in and nails it for the short term, they will leave anyway.

Funny you say I don’t read...please show me where I ever said Wojo is the best MU could ever hope for?
"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

Cheeks

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Re: Wojo's Dirty End of Game
« Reply #84 on: February 23, 2020, 06:08:32 PM »
I believe he does.  Goose has said it best all year.   He can cash in another 4-6 years make millions and then he’s set. 

Wojo whether you like him or not doesn’t have thick skin.  He’s made it publicly known numerous times he has had issues with some fans and some of the press.

From what I see, he doesn’t seem to do well with criticism.  I’d bet he darts

Well it will be fun to watch all the arseholes dance on his grave when it happens and players opting out of their commitments.  It will be even better to watch the second coach in a row leave for a lesser job and third coach in a row leave for a worse immediate situation and pretend the fans, etc have no bearing on it. 
"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

Goose

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Re: Wojo's Dirty End of Game
« Reply #85 on: February 23, 2020, 06:20:58 PM »
Cheeks

So TC and Buzz left because of the fan base? My guess is if you answer honestly, we will find the root of the problem.

Cheeks

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Re: Wojo's Dirty End of Game
« Reply #86 on: February 23, 2020, 06:34:41 PM »
Cheeks

So TC and Buzz left because of the fan base? My guess is if you answer honestly, we will find the root of the problem.

Not the on,y reason, one of the reasons....you can talk to one of them if you wish.  Read Al’s 1976 comments....could not have nailed it any better.  At some point these guys say enough, I will start over somewhere else with a honeymoon period and not have to deal with the crap.  Yes!
« Last Edit: February 23, 2020, 06:36:20 PM by Cheeks »
"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

tower912

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Re: Wojo's Dirty End of Game
« Reply #87 on: February 23, 2020, 06:45:10 PM »
Cheeks

So TC and Buzz left because of the fan base? My guess is if you answer honestly, we will find the root of the problem.
https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/new-faces-new-places-why-did-buzz-williams-leave-marquette-for-vt/

Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

WhiteTrash

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Re: Wojo's Dirty End of Game
« Reply #88 on: February 23, 2020, 06:46:38 PM »
Do I think MU can do better...yes.  Do I think MU will do better...I don’t know but we have been good enough not to start the clock all over again....and if we do and some guy comes in and nails it for the short term, they will leave anyway.

Funny you say I don’t read...please show me where I ever said Wojo is the best MU could ever hope for?
I'm not trying to pick a fight, I just what to clarify your position. I think it will help me, and maybe others going forward, and may reduce some bickering.

I read your comments to be : You want MU to be good but not too good. If MU is too good the coach will leave.

Correct?

Cheeks

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Re: Wojo's Dirty End of Game
« Reply #89 on: February 23, 2020, 07:00:23 PM »
I'm not trying to pick a fight, I just what to clarify your position. I think it will help me, and maybe others going forward, and may reduce some bickering.

I read your comments to be : You want MU to be good but not too good. If MU is too good the coach will leave.

Correct?

No, and I am sorry if that is how they came off.


Milwaukee and Marquette is not a destination.  I love the city and the people, but unless you are from there it is rare to dig deep roots.  As a result, I have wanted anyone that will get 10 years under their belt...hasn’t happened since Al and he tried twice to leave MU. 

In my opinion you need someone that is willing to stick it out and dig in.  Syracuse isn’t a great spot, but someone chose to stick it out.  Plenty of other examples.  Wojo has done plenty good enough not to take the shat he is taking is my point.  Be careful what you wish for....or maybe just read what Crean, Buzz and maybe soon to be Wojo say off the record why they wish to get out of dodge.  It isn’t worth it, start over and get a new honeymoon.  I think Wojo has gotten better and HIS BEST DAYS ARE AHEAD OF HIM!  And I worry we will see those best days at another school because our fan base is do provincial and detached from reality.  Hate to break it to you guys, people aren’t banging down the door to play in Milwaukee in the winter or Coach there for a long period of time.  Takes a special someone to grab and keep for a long period of time.

Personally I believe the Bucks success doesn’t help at the moment.  Of course the irony of ironies is that all the protections in place to avoid free agency Armageddon is why the Bucks can succeed....there are people here that want to make it even harder for a place like MU to succeed In the future because of their proclivity to beautiful frozen flakes...but that’s another story.
"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

Goose

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Re: Wojo's Dirty End of Game
« Reply #90 on: February 23, 2020, 07:18:29 PM »
Cheeks

What are one or two of the other reasons why TC and Buzz left?

PuertoRicanNightmare

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Re: Wojo's Dirty End of Game
« Reply #91 on: February 23, 2020, 07:22:01 PM »
No, and I am sorry if that is how they came off.


Milwaukee and Marquette is not a destination.  I love the city and the people, but unless you are from there it is rare to dig deep roots.  As a result, I have wanted anyone that will get 10 years under their belt...hasn’t happened since Al and he tried twice to leave MU. 

In my opinion you need someone that is willing to stick it out and dig in.  Syracuse isn’t a great spot, but someone chose to stick it out.  Plenty of other examples.  Wojo has done plenty good enough not to take the shat he is taking is my point.  Be careful what you wish for....or maybe just read what Crean, Buzz and maybe soon to be Wojo say off the record why they wish to get out of dodge.  It isn’t worth it, start over and get a new honeymoon.  I think Wojo has gotten better and HIS BEST DAYS ARE AHEAD OF HIM!  And I worry we will see those best days at another school because our fan base is do provincial and detached from reality.  Hate to break it to you guys, people aren’t banging down the door to play in Milwaukee in the winter or Coach there for a long period of time.  Takes a special someone to grab and keep for a long period of time.

Personally I believe the Bucks success doesn’t help at the moment.  Of course the irony of ironies is that all the protections in place to avoid free agency Armageddon is why the Bucks can succeed....there are people here that want to make it even harder for a place like MU to succeed In the future because of their proclivity to beautiful frozen flakes...but that’s another story.
This is one of the most coherent posts Hoopaloop has ever made.

Lennys Tap

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Re: Wojo's Dirty End of Game
« Reply #92 on: February 23, 2020, 07:35:01 PM »
https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/new-faces-new-places-why-did-buzz-williams-leave-marquette-for-vt/

Nice, fair portrait of Buzz. Shows his weirdness and also his goodness and loyalty. But (maybe I missed something?) he didn’t say anything the least bit disparaging about the Marquette fan base - only that he had set the bar high (Big East title, 7 NCAA wins in 4 years, S16, S16, E 8 back to hack to back) and that level of success would be hard to sustain. The facts say he was prescient.

WhiteTrash

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Re: Wojo's Dirty End of Game
« Reply #93 on: February 23, 2020, 07:35:56 PM »
No, and I am sorry if that is how they came off.


Milwaukee and Marquette is not a destination.  I love the city and the people, but unless you are from there it is rare to dig deep roots.  As a result, I have wanted anyone that will get 10 years under their belt...hasn’t happened since Al and he tried twice to leave MU. 

In my opinion you need someone that is willing to stick it out and dig in.  Syracuse isn’t a great spot, but someone chose to stick it out.  Plenty of other examples.  Wojo has done plenty good enough not to take the shat he is taking is my point.  Be careful what you wish for....or maybe just read what Crean, Buzz and maybe soon to be Wojo say off the record why they wish to get out of dodge.  It isn’t worth it, start over and get a new honeymoon.  I think Wojo has gotten better and HIS BEST DAYS ARE AHEAD OF HIM!  And I worry we will see those best days at another school because our fan base is do provincial and detached from reality.  Hate to break it to you guys, people aren’t banging down the door to play in Milwaukee in the winter or Coach there for a long period of time.  Takes a special someone to grab and keep for a long period of time.

Personally I believe the Bucks success doesn’t help at the moment.  Of course the irony of ironies is that all the protections in place to avoid free agency Armageddon is why the Bucks can succeed....there are people here that want to make it even harder for a place like MU to succeed In the future because of their proclivity to beautiful frozen flakes...but that’s another story.
Thanks. A lot of logic here. I understand your position much better. Wojo has been good enough to allow for reasonable fans disagree on the trajectory of the program. This would be much easier if he'd go 4-26 or to a Final Four.

I'm still in Wojo's camp.

Goose

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Re: Wojo's Dirty End of Game
« Reply #94 on: February 23, 2020, 07:40:37 PM »
Lenny

Of course he did not say anything about the fan base. I would say this, if Wojo left this job due to the fan base he would be off his rocker. He should leave to give himself another 5-6 year job security and sock the money away.
Again, I enjoyed the Buzz article but not sure on the negative comments on the fans were in the article.

tower912

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Re: Wojo's Dirty End of Game
« Reply #95 on: February 23, 2020, 07:41:39 PM »
Nice, fair portrait of Buzz. Shows his weirdness and also his goodness and loyalty. But (maybe I missed something?) he didn’t say anything the least bit disparaging about the Marquette fan base - only that he had set the bar high (Big East title, 7 NCAA wins in 4 years, S16, S16, E 8 back to hack to back) and that level of success would be hard to sustain. The facts say he was prescient.
I read it as he didn't think he could sustain it and better to get out before the posse formed and the fanbase would be calling for his head.  But, I think we are splitting hairs and saying much the same thing.
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

Frenns Liquor Depot

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Re: Wojo's Dirty End of Game
« Reply #96 on: February 23, 2020, 07:43:40 PM »
I read it as he didn't think he could sustain it and better to get out before the posse formed and the fanbase would be calling for his head.  But, I think we are splitting hairs and saying much the same thing.

The results posse wasn’t forming.  However it did give the admin the moral authority to mutually part ways with out a lot of anger. 

Goose

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Re: Wojo's Dirty End of Game
« Reply #97 on: February 23, 2020, 07:49:34 PM »
Tower

What he said he can be said by every coach at every university. That is the same stuff Al would say back in the day. Smart stuff to say, but nothing of substance.
Still wish Cheeks would give the reasons why TC and Buzz left.

Lennys Tap

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Re: Wojo's Dirty End of Game
« Reply #98 on: February 23, 2020, 08:03:07 PM »
I read it as he didn't think he could sustain it and better to get out before the posse formed and the fanbase would be calling for his head.  But, I think we are splitting hairs and saying much the same thing.

A fair inference - but he wasn’t referring to anything “Marquette specific”. You do a great job, you set a high bar. Everybody - writers, your employer, fans, etc. expects more of the same - or better. If you don’t deliver they’re dissatisfied. That’s universal. Six years later his successor has set a new, much lower, much more sustainable bar. The people in charge and the projos are OK with it. If Buzz was still here and we were a middle of the road (in the conference) program with 3 NCAA appearances and zero NCAA wins in the last 7 years I doubt his employers would be happy. And I guarantee you Chico would not be cheerleading Buzz and celebrating our “stability”.



tower912

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Re: Wojo's Dirty End of Game
« Reply #99 on: February 23, 2020, 08:05:41 PM »
No. He wasn't.  In his stat obsessed, OCD mind, he had it figured that it was time to go. 
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

 

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