collapse

* Resources


UDM 4

* E Illinois SOTG

Dawson Garcia

16 points, 8 rebounds,
1 block, 28 minutes

2020-21 Season SoG Tally
Garcia1
John1

'19-20
'18-19 * '17-18 * '16-17
'15-16 * '14-15 * '13-14
'12-13 * '11-12 * '10-11

* Big East Standings

* Recent Posts

How many years will Dawson play at MU? by Galway Eagle
[November 28, 2020, 11:58:55 PM]


General Big East Thread 20-21 by GB Warrior
[November 28, 2020, 11:38:45 PM]


Is this Wojo's best TEAM? by Shooter McGavin
[November 28, 2020, 11:12:15 PM]


So....What are we ranked on Monday - 2/24/2020 by MU82
[November 28, 2020, 10:26:11 PM]


Lewis tweets by MU24
[November 28, 2020, 10:07:04 PM]


Stan Johnson is new LMU Head Coach by Newsdreams
[November 28, 2020, 09:52:44 PM]


Coaches Looking For Games (on Twitter) by shoothoops
[November 28, 2020, 08:58:20 PM]

Please Register - It's FREE!

The absolute only thing required for this FREE registration is a valid e-mail address.  We keep all your information confidential and will NEVER give or sell it to anyone else.
Login to get rid of this box (and ads) , or register NOW!

* Next up: Oklahoma State

Marquette
75
Marquette vs.

Oklahoma State

Date/Time: Dec 1, 2020, 6:00pm
TV: FS1
Schedule for 2019-20
E. Illinois
50

Author Topic: Talent  (Read 4128 times)

Aircraftcarrier

  • Team Captain
  • ****
  • Posts: 487
Re: Talent
« Reply #25 on: February 22, 2020, 04:16:15 PM »
Get a real point guard and he makes everyone better.Like Tony Miller made Mac,Key,Eford and Logterman better.Why we didn't offer McKinley Wright after Archie left Dayton and went to Indiana.Big mistake.

Scoop Snoop

  • Starter
  • ***
  • Posts: 130
Re: Talent
« Reply #26 on: February 22, 2020, 04:48:22 PM »
You need talent or a coach. Wojo needs better player based off his coaching success. Only way will ever be success is if he lands studs and more than one.

Why "or"? I think you need both. Why should the players have to prop up a coach? That is not exactly what you said but that's the way I see it. Doesn't seem right to me. They have to perform but he does not?
"Your words don't mean anything to me. Argument doesn't have any effect on me."
Doc Burton: "I wasn't arguing. I was asking for information. All of you people get angry when you're asked a question."
                                           
                Excerpt from a Steinbeck novel.

Goose

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 6694
Re: Talent
« Reply #27 on: February 22, 2020, 04:51:29 PM »
Scoop
Talented players have hid a lot coaching flaws over the years. Of course you want both, but cannot win on big stage without one or the other. My preference is talent, but would take great coaching at the moment.

PorkysButthole

  • Scholarship Player
  • **
  • Posts: 50
Re: Talent
« Reply #28 on: February 22, 2020, 07:52:56 PM »
Porky is with the OP on this.  Our players are just not as good as we all want them to be and it’s a simple as that.  Other than Markus talent is average at best.  Sure the coaching staff deserves some of the blame but how a good can we realistically be if it’s all about the 3 ball?  We have no transition game or paint game whatsoever, and on the rare occasions where one of our guys gets a fast break for an open dunk they miss 50% of the time.  it’s hard to blame those on the coaching staff.   The Creighton game I can understand.  How often do we have four players score in double figures and still lose? Not often but they’re one of the best teams in the country and the surprise of the conference this year so that loss, disappointing though it was, Porky can live with.    Today’s, not so much but I think it has far more to do with mediocre one dimensional players, than the staff.  At the end of the day we all want to be a blue blood and we’re just not.  The sad thing is until we have some tournament success over A multi year period, I don’t see the talent getting much better no matter who the Head coach and remainder of the staff is.

21Jumpstreet

  • Team Captain
  • ****
  • Posts: 395
Re: Talent
« Reply #29 on: February 22, 2020, 09:14:54 PM »
Wojo can’t want it more than the guys. I am not a projo. As the quote on my 13 year olds wall says, “Hard work beats talent when talent doesn’t work hard.” They are talented, we have seen it. Work harder.

GoldenDieners32

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 1980
Re: Talent
« Reply #30 on: February 22, 2020, 09:36:47 PM »
Not necessarily all talent. Part of it is playing as a team. I would argue Marquette has more talent than SDSU
Wadesworld predicting Sam Hauser as the next player to represent MU in the NBA
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=53816.50

Earl Tatum

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 1137
Re: Talent
« Reply #31 on: February 22, 2020, 10:25:56 PM »
Still not sold on Bailey. Thought by now Cain, John, Anim and Bailey
would show more consistency in their shooting and BB Smarts after
their years at MU.

GoldenZebra

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 725
Re: Talent
« Reply #32 on: February 22, 2020, 11:49:56 PM »
Teams are winning and being successful with a lot less talent than MU.

BM1090

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 4635
Re: Talent
« Reply #33 on: February 22, 2020, 11:51:57 PM »
Teams are winning and being successful with a lot less talent than MU.

Where? Show me a few teams who are more successful than MU with a 2nd best player worse than Sacar.

I'm sure they exist. I like Sacar. He's probably my favorite player on this team. But our talent 2-9 is not great.

WhiteTrash

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 1250
Re: Talent
« Reply #34 on: February 23, 2020, 11:52:39 AM »
Where? Show me a few teams who are more successful than MU with a 2nd best player worse than Sacar.

I'm sure they exist. I like Sacar. He's probably my favorite player on this team. But our talent 2-9 is not great.
I think based upon recruiting rankings, which ProJo's will tell you is a big reason to keep him because next years class is 'ranked so high', that you could argue MU has better talent than the following Top 25 teams:
SDSU
Dayton
Penn State
Creighton
Seton Hall
West Virginia
Colorado
Iowa
Butler
Huston
BYU

Recruiting rankings aside, you maybe correct and Wojo does not have a good eye for high school talent; which means none of us should be too excited for next year's class.

FWIW, I'm 100% for Wojo being back at MU next year. The good  outweighs the bad.

Aircraftcarrier

  • Team Captain
  • ****
  • Posts: 487
Re: Talent
« Reply #35 on: February 23, 2020, 12:20:01 PM »
All 4 teams ahead of MU in standings plus Butler who is tied has better point guard play than MU.Coincidence?I think not

Aircraftcarrier

  • Team Captain
  • ****
  • Posts: 487
Re: Talent
« Reply #36 on: February 23, 2020, 12:29:59 PM »
MU and DePaul are the only two teams in the Big East that average more turnovers than assists per game.Let that soak in UnleashJayce

BCHoopster

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 2111
Re: Talent
« Reply #37 on: February 23, 2020, 12:38:49 PM »
I think based upon recruiting rankings, which ProJo's will tell you is a big reason to keep him because next years class is 'ranked so high', that you could argue MU has better talent than the following Top 25 teams:
SDSU
Dayton
Penn State
Creighton
Seton Hall
West Virginia
Colorado
Iowa
Butler
Huston
BYU

Recruiting rankings aside, you maybe correct and Wojo does not have a good eye for high school talent; which means none of us should be too excited for next year's class.

FWIW, I'm 100% for Wojo being back at MU next year. The good  outweighs the bad.

Dawson is the real deal, other 2 not sure, but how this coach uses him is a different story

Stretchdeltsig

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 2598
Re: Talent
« Reply #38 on: February 23, 2020, 12:40:52 PM »
As much as loathe the Badgers, for the past twenty years including this year’s team, they play better in February , while our beloved Warriors play worse.  The difference is coaching. The Badgers take mediocre talent and coach them up while Marquette’s more talented players don’t improve.  Wish it weren’t so.

willie warrior

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 7710
Re: Talent
« Reply #39 on: February 23, 2020, 12:51:01 PM »
I think based upon recruiting rankings, which ProJo's will tell you is a big reason to keep him because next years class is 'ranked so high', that you could argue MU has better talent than the following Top 25 teams:
SDSU
Dayton
Penn State
Creighton
Seton Hall
West Virginia
Colorado
Iowa
Butler
Huston
BYU

Recruiting rankings aside, you maybe correct and Wojo does not have a good eye for high school talent; which means none of us should be too excited for next year's class.

FWIW, I'm 100% for Wojo being back at MU next year. The good  outweighs the bad.
Enlighten us on how the good outweighs the bad. Results matter

BCHoopster

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 2111
Re: Talent
« Reply #40 on: February 23, 2020, 12:52:31 PM »
As much as loathe the Badgers, for the past twenty years including this year’s team, they play better in February , while our beloved Warriors play worse.  The difference is coaching. The Badgers take mediocre talent and coach them up while Marquette’s more talented players don’t improve.  Wish it weren’t so.
MU May have more talented athletes, but Wisconsin has smarter players and one major difference is there centers can score from inside and outside, much more opportunities to stretch the court

Aircraftcarrier

  • Team Captain
  • ****
  • Posts: 487
Re: Talent
« Reply #41 on: February 23, 2020, 01:00:47 PM »
For all you experts.How many more wins would MU have if Colin Gillespie was the point guard instead of McEwen and what would be Villanova record if McEwen was the point guard instead of Gillespie?

WhiteTrash

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 1250
Re: Talent
« Reply #42 on: February 23, 2020, 01:13:34 PM »
Enlighten us on how the good outweighs the bad. Results matter
Fair question. First he seems to be a great person and his players seem to be quality young men. Check in the 'good' side. It appears he'll have gone to his 3rd NCAA in 4 years. We'll have at least made brief appearances in the Top 25 the past 2 years. He can recruit against other big time programs and win. Next years class looks promising.

Negatives: Player development, game coaching (he's better than 6 years ago but I haven't seen much growth the past 2 years), roster construction (lack of a PG is unbelievable), having to rely on MH too much.

I do support him coming back but I would not be surprised at all if last year was the 'high water mark' of Wojo's time at MU.

BM1090

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 4635
Re: Talent
« Reply #43 on: February 23, 2020, 04:05:03 PM »
I think based upon recruiting rankings, which ProJo's will tell you is a big reason to keep him because next years class is 'ranked so high', that you could argue MU has better talent than the following Top 25 teams:
SDSU
Dayton
Penn State
Creighton
Seton Hall
West Virginia
Colorado
Iowa
Butler
Huston
BYU

Recruiting rankings aside, you maybe correct and Wojo does not have a good eye for high school talent; which means none of us should be too excited for next year's class.

FWIW, I'm 100% for Wojo being back at MU next year. The good  outweighs the bad.

Butler is the only team that's even close to MU in talent. Everyone else has far more. Markus is better than Baldwin, their 2-4 are better but our roster may be more complete. We have nobody who can break down a defense consistently other than Markus. We have guys who shoot good percentages from deep but can't create seperation to get those shots. Our bigs are incredibly slow and mechanical.

All my opinion, of course.


tower912

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 16052
Re: Talent
« Reply #44 on: February 23, 2020, 04:08:14 PM »
If it is a talent issue, then Wojo must be a genius as a game coach.
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

Warrior of Law

  • Team Captain
  • ****
  • Posts: 423
Re: Talent
« Reply #45 on: February 23, 2020, 04:20:19 PM »
When you consider how unreliable starters like Koby, Sacar & Brendan actually are, I give some credit to the staff for being .500 in conference. It doesn't get much better when Jamal Cain comes in, either.
"You can only protect your liberties in this world by protecting the other man's freedom. You can only be free if I am free."  Clarence Darrow

BM1090

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 4635
Re: Talent
« Reply #46 on: February 23, 2020, 04:23:32 PM »
If it is a talent issue, then Wojo must be a genius as a game coach.

I don't think he's a genius. I just think his recruiting is a bit overrated and his X's and O's are a bit underrated. He's pretty average in all facets. The improved recruiting should help.

I think player development (outside of shooting) is my biggest concern.

WarriorHal

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 635
Re: Talent
« Reply #47 on: February 23, 2020, 04:39:00 PM »
Regarding talent, how many players recruited by Buzz went on to play in the NBA, and how many players recruited by Wojo have played in the NBA? Anybody know?

willie warrior

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 7710
Re: Talent
« Reply #48 on: February 23, 2020, 04:47:04 PM »
When you consider how unreliable starters like Koby, Sacar & Brendan actually are, I give some credit to the staff for being .500 in conference. It doesn't get much better when Jamal Cain comes in, either.
Good grief. Now we should celebrate being .500 in conference

4everwarriors

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 14137
Re: Talent
« Reply #49 on: February 23, 2020, 05:43:29 PM »
Bottom line is whether the problem is lack of talent or lack of coaching ability, the finger has to point to Woj. He's da dude in in charge and as such is 100% responsible for the product he puts out on the court, hey?
"Give 'Em Hell, Al"

 

feedback