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Author Topic: Transfer Rule proposal  (Read 17648 times)

Shooter McGavin

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Re: Transfer Rule proposal
« Reply #50 on: February 21, 2020, 03:31:37 PM »
ok, if they open the floodgates to pay these guys and they are allowed to transfer, then no scholarship is allowed.  the player pays his own way.  if the player wants to void the freedom to transfer, then the school could offer some kind of tuition waiver.  like for instance, as long as the head coach he got recruited by is still there if he so chooses. 

so many here seem pretty eager to blow up the system that has worked for so long-careful what you're wishing for.  we already have several pro leagues, here and abroad.  ya'll understand that you're essentially creating another pro league?  what about the "school" part?  the education thingy seems like a big distraction from the guy trying to make some coin man.  so, we are essentially creating colleges,  each with their own pro team...cool?

When it happens MU better be way ahead of the game as soon as it starts to maintain an advantage in recruiting.  This type of change will require an entirely different department to be created.  Schools will have to spend even more money to facilitate getting these athletes what they want.  MU needs to be ready.  Hopefully this is on the agenda of every BOD meeting.

The Sultan of Semantics

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Re: Transfer Rule proposal
« Reply #51 on: February 21, 2020, 03:42:55 PM »
Unpaid students my backside.

They get a scholarship to attend school. In exchange for playing basketball. That’s a barter transaction.

They sign a contract, that’s why.

Any contract that bounds them to a school for two years is a bad contract.
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.” - Clarence Darrow

Shooter McGavin

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Re: Transfer Rule proposal
« Reply #52 on: February 21, 2020, 03:55:08 PM »
That could be said after the first transfer as well, unfortunately.  There is no
great solution if we are truly on the athletes side of this.

rocket surgeon

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Re: Transfer Rule proposal
« Reply #53 on: February 21, 2020, 03:57:51 PM »
Any contract that bounds them to a school for two years is a bad contract.

  well, then don't sign and don't play.  a contract is supposed to protect both sides.  each is to expect a benefit and protections
don't...don't don't don't don't

Pakuni

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Re: Transfer Rule proposal
« Reply #54 on: February 21, 2020, 04:02:02 PM »
  well, then don't sign and don't play.  a contract is supposed to protect both sides.  each is to expect a benefit and protections

What's the benefit to the player signing  two-year contract?

rocket surgeon

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Re: Transfer Rule proposal
« Reply #55 on: February 21, 2020, 04:03:34 PM »
I've thought about this pay your own way but that's likely kill us against state schools. Would be interesting to see the amount of mid majors that get the boost from in state talent

good points eagle-if some kind of system is implemented to pay the players, the schools should get some kind of reassurance(s) as well.  if this means the players would be on their own for tuition costs, a universal tuition needs to be worked so an "education" at harvard costs the same as UWM or something.  there needs to be an incentive for the athlete to maybe want to take advantage of the education that is available to him.  otherwise, the players become "students" in name only. 
don't...don't don't don't don't

The Sultan of Semantics

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Re: Transfer Rule proposal
« Reply #56 on: February 21, 2020, 04:04:00 PM »
What's the benefit to the player signing  two-year contract?

And furthermore, what choice do they have?  It's not as though they can shop other schools for better offers.
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.” - Clarence Darrow

lawdog77

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Re: Transfer Rule proposal
« Reply #57 on: February 21, 2020, 04:05:40 PM »
What's the benefit to the player signing  two-year contract?
What if they get injured, or are a bust in year 1?

rocket surgeon

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Re: Transfer Rule proposal
« Reply #58 on: February 21, 2020, 04:08:55 PM »
What's the benefit to the player signing  two-year contract?

i don't really know  ask sultan.  i really don't like any of this, but if it is inevitable,  there needs to be protections for each side.  and we haven't even discussed salary cap yet ?-(
don't...don't don't don't don't

Pakuni

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Re: Transfer Rule proposal
« Reply #59 on: February 21, 2020, 04:16:23 PM »
What if they get injured, or are a bust in year 1?

They find another school?
Seriously, are teams going to cut a talented player because he got hurt? 99.9 percent of injuries are not career ending, and the vast, vast majority of injured players make full recoveries. I mean, if Dawson Garcia hurts his shoulder early next year and misses the rest of the season, Marquette isn't cutting him. And if they do, good luck with the negative recruiting that will result.

As for being a 1-year bust, if a school is willing to drop a kid after one year, they'll be willing to drop him after two. All the contract assures the player is one more year on the bench at a place he's not wanted.
What a benefit!
That kid is better off finding a home at his level ASAP than wasting away on the pines for another season (and wasting another year of eligibility).

Dawson Rental

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Re: Transfer Rule proposal
« Reply #60 on: February 21, 2020, 04:36:11 PM »
It’s called cherry picking.  Pick off the cream of the crop from the lesser teams.  So simple with new rules.  Beware.

Yep. And that’s fine.

Are you NUTS?  That's like free markets, and, and, and capitalism!

Socialism for institutions of higher learning!!!  Just not for people.
You actually have a degree from Marquette?

Quote from: muguru
No...and after reading many many psosts from people on this board that do...I have to say I'm MUCH better off, if this is the type of "intelligence" a degree from MU gets you. It sure is on full display I will say that.

lawdog77

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Re: Transfer Rule proposal
« Reply #61 on: February 21, 2020, 04:44:05 PM »
They find another school?
Seriously, are teams going to cut a talented player because he got hurt? 99.9 percent of injuries are not career ending, and the vast, vast majority of injured players make full recoveries. I mean, if Dawson Garcia hurts his shoulder early next year and misses the rest of the season, Marquette isn't cutting him. And if they do, good luck with the negative recruiting that will result.

As for being a 1-year bust, if a school is willing to drop a kid after one year, they'll be willing to drop him after two. All the contract assures the player is one more year on the bench at a place he's not wanted.
What a benefit!
That kid is better off finding a home at his level ASAP than wasting away on the pines for another season (and wasting another year of eligibility).
Great, cut an injured kid after year 1.  Or hes a bust  and cut him after year 1?  Part of the point is to get a degree. Many sign with a school in anticipation of getting a degree.  I think the scholarship should be a guaranteed 4 years, but  allow 1 free transfer.

Dawson Rental

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Re: Transfer Rule proposal
« Reply #62 on: February 21, 2020, 05:01:09 PM »
But if we elect one of the Socialists in November, college will be free for everybody!  So this point becomes moot.

Only if we simultaneously elect 50 socialist senators...
You actually have a degree from Marquette?

Quote from: muguru
No...and after reading many many psosts from people on this board that do...I have to say I'm MUCH better off, if this is the type of "intelligence" a degree from MU gets you. It sure is on full display I will say that.

Galway Eagle

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Re: Transfer Rule proposal
« Reply #63 on: February 21, 2020, 05:17:27 PM »
Only if we simultaneously elect 50 socialist senators...

How you two haven't gotten this locked is beyond me.
Maigh Eo for Sam

rocket surgeon

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Re: Transfer Rule proposal
« Reply #64 on: February 21, 2020, 06:22:30 PM »
How you two haven't gotten this locked is beyond me.

please please don'tlock er down-this has been one of the better discussions and quite informative
don't...don't don't don't don't

Cheeks

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Re: Transfer Rule proposal
« Reply #65 on: February 21, 2020, 06:47:16 PM »
Only 5 players can play at a time. How many "blue bloods"? 10? The math doesn't add up. These bluebloods will be signing the Top High School players as well, as well as their current roster. I don't see many freshman phenoms at lower schools transferring up. If they are that good, they will declare for the NBA. If they are not good enough for the NBA, they are now at a blueblood for 3 years, tying up a scholarship.

Jeff Goodman as the expert on the ramifactions? OK.

A number of coaches were listed, they would be the experts on the ramifications....Jeff Goodman was just one of many I quoted.  I left another 20 or so quotes off.    As stated earlier, most of the Blue Bloods don't carry a full roster or they have 2 or 3 kids taking a scholarship that are there for GPA inflation / son of booster.  As others quoted, it won't just be the blue bloods that do the poaching as it will go from one tier to the next to the next.   

This kind of movement would never be tolerated in the pros.  Free agency was destroying the pro sports as it were which is why Salary Caps, franchise tags, home team exceptions were put in to undo the harm that free agency created.  The ultimate irony when people say free agency didn't destroy professional sports....only it was and had to be corrected.  No such remedies exist in the college game.  Going to be really sad to see how this all turns out. 
"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

rocket surgeon

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Re: Transfer Rule proposal
« Reply #66 on: February 21, 2020, 07:04:17 PM »
A number of coaches were listed, they would be the experts on the ramifications....Jeff Goodman was just one of many I quoted.  I left another 20 or so quotes off.    As stated earlier, most of the Blue Bloods don't carry a full roster or they have 2 or 3 kids taking a scholarship that are there for GPA inflation / son of booster.  As others quoted, it won't just be the blue bloods that do the poaching as it will go from one tier to the next to the next.   

This kind of movement would never be tolerated in the pros.  Free agency was destroying the pro sports as it were which is why Salary Caps, franchise tags, home team exceptions were put in to undo the harm that free agency created.  The ultimate irony when people say free agency didn't destroy professional sports....only it was and had to be corrected.  No such remedies exist in the college game.  Going to be really sad to see how this all turns out.

completely agree here jams!  so many here are trying to make it sound like it's the right thing to do without any regard for how it would(not could) play out.  i believe it would make our college system, with all its "shenanigans" a real mess.  not as simple as just paying the players.  if you think the adidas thing was nasty, this would make that look like childs play
don't...don't don't don't don't

jesmu84

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Re: Transfer Rule proposal
« Reply #67 on: February 21, 2020, 07:08:44 PM »
A number of coaches were listed, they would be the experts on the ramifications....Jeff Goodman was just one of many I quoted.  I left another 20 or so quotes off.    As stated earlier, most of the Blue Bloods don't carry a full roster or they have 2 or 3 kids taking a scholarship that are there for GPA inflation / son of booster.  As others quoted, it won't just be the blue bloods that do the poaching as it will go from one tier to the next to the next.   

This kind of movement would never be tolerated in the pros.  Free agency was destroying the pro sports as it were which is why Salary Caps, franchise tags, home team exceptions were put in to undo the harm that free agency created.  The ultimate irony when people say free agency didn't destroy professional sports....only it was and had to be corrected.  No such remedies exist in the college game.  Going to be really sad to see how this all turns out.

When is someone considered an "expert" on a topic?

jesmu84

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Re: Transfer Rule proposal
« Reply #68 on: February 21, 2020, 07:09:16 PM »
completely agree here jams!  so many here are trying to make it sound like it's the right thing to do without any regard for how it would(not could) play out.  i believe it would make our college system, with all its "shenanigans" a real mess.  not as simple as just paying the players.  if you think the adidas thing was nasty, this would make that look like childs play

It's pretty clear by now that the Adidas thing isn't nasty. At least not to the NCAA

Cheeks

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Re: Transfer Rule proposal
« Reply #69 on: February 21, 2020, 07:15:03 PM »
Right. And I'm pretty sure Cal and Coach K aren't eager to stack their rosters with A-10 talent.

If they could supplement them with a Myles Powell, Markus Howard, other top players on next level teams....they can and will do it in a heartbeat.  That's the point. 
"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

Cheeks

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Re: Transfer Rule proposal
« Reply #70 on: February 21, 2020, 07:17:27 PM »
Are you NUTS?  That's like free markets, and, and, and capitalism!

Socialism for institutions of higher learning!!!  Just not for people.

Most sports have socialism to keep things competitive because the talent pool is so small.  In most industries that isn't needed because there are millions of accountants, lawyers, marketers, pharmacists, etc.

There's a reason sports have DRAFTS and SALARY CAPS and CONTRACTS, etc.....because it is unique.  What these idiots want to do is create "free agency" without the safeguards that prevented free agency from destroying professional sports.  It's amazing how silly this all is and the damage that will unfold over time.
"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

rocket surgeon

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Re: Transfer Rule proposal
« Reply #71 on: February 21, 2020, 07:23:35 PM »
It's pretty clear by now that the Adidas thing isn't nasty. At least not to the NCAA

ok, then how about naughty?  it sure in the heck wasn't above the board. 
don't...don't don't don't don't

Uncle Rico

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Re: Transfer Rule proposal
« Reply #72 on: February 21, 2020, 07:36:22 PM »
Yawn
“This is bar none atrocious.  Mitchell cannot shoot either.  What a pile of dung”

Cheeks

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Re: Transfer Rule proposal
« Reply #73 on: February 21, 2020, 07:39:30 PM »
When is someone considered an "expert" on a topic?

Fair question.  I believe a number of coaches have correctly stated what will happen with transfers and poaching....they've admitted it happens now at a minor level and it will happen to unbelievable extremes in the future.  I would characterize them as experts in the sense of recruiting, transfers, and roster management.  Do you disagree?
"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

Cheeks

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Re: Transfer Rule proposal
« Reply #74 on: February 21, 2020, 07:43:42 PM »
Why should there only be a one time exemption?  If we really desire free agency for people who aren’t employees they should be able to transfer as many times as they want like any other student.  Why the half measures?  I ask this because people are so adamant about wanting this but seem to stop a bit short of complete freedom of choice.

Not only that, should be able to transfer each semester....I mean regular students get to do that.  First semester player for Marquette...second semester for Michigan.  I mean...come on....Johnny gets to do it.

Moreover....Johnny can go to school for 10 straight years if he wishes and keep on adding majors, never graduate.  Since Johnny can do that, why can't Devon the football player....why is he limited to 4 years of playing?

The arguments these people are making are so easily destroyed.   Terrible what this is all going to turn into...the rich get richer, the haves DOMINATE, fewer opportunities for other kids eventually schools will drop sports or levels as fan bases are so put off by the roster raiding.
"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

 

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