Baldwin vs Howard

[MikeDeanesDarkGlasses]

I just wish we would have a program more like Bill Self's. Win, when you get your wins removed nobody cares, pay your players, have "tough guys" who aren't "soft" and will throw stools at people.

Stupid.

You picked Bill Self out of all coaches?  That says a lot....

[WhoaJoe2020]

Sorry, but this isn't Wojo basketball.  You shake hands after the game like a good boy.

Tonight you shake hands.

At the Fiserv it's an elbow to the head and the refs better not call a foul.

That would be fair.

[MikeDeanesDarkGlasses]

Tonight you shake hands.

At the Fiserv it's an elbow to the head and the refs better not call a foul.

That would be fair.

Stay Classy

Nothing was done to MH on purpose

[WhoaJoe2020]

IMO, Butler played a clean & fair game. I didn't see anything dirty. In sports, sometimes the other team is just better. Butler was at home and better coached tonight. It happens in the BigEast.

I hope Theo does nothing to retaliate at home; he'll just get kicked out and that hurts MU. (unless you like MU to lose?)

If he does exactly what Kamar did, not only shouldn't he be kicked out, he shouldn't even get called for a foul.

It was a clean game , except for when Marquettes best player got mugged.

No biggie I guess.

[WhiteTrash]

Tonight you shake hands.

At the Fiserv it's an elbow to the head and the refs better not call a foul.

That would be fair.

You're a gem. How about MU wins against Butler instead of some imaginary tough guy BS that will cost MU a game?

[wadesworld]

You picked Bill Self out of all coaches?  That says a lot....

Yeah that's who I pick. You can shake hands after a game like a "good boy" (your knock on Wojo), or you can go and fight the throw punches. I know I'd rather have the latter!

[WhoaJoe2020]

Stay Classy

Nothing was done to MH on purpose

Do you think I give a fork about your take on anything?

Paybacks a MDDG

[WhiteTrash]

If he does exactly what Kamar did, not only shouldn't he be kicked out, he shouldn't even get called for a foul.

It was a clean game , except for when Marquettes best player got mugged.

No biggie I guess.

So you think that is why MU lost?

[WhoaJoe2020]

You're a gem. How about MU wins against Butler instead of some imaginary tough guy BS that will cost MU a game?

What are you talking about?

How will it cost Marquette a game when there won't even be a foul called?

Do you read before you reply.

[MikeDeanesDarkGlasses]

Yeah that's who I pick. You can shake hands after a game like a "good boy" (your knock on Wojo), or you can go and fight the throw punches. I know I'd rather have the latter!

You didn't read the context of the quote then...... go figure.

[WhoaJoe2020]

So you think that is why MU lost?

It might have had something to do with it.....

Ya think?

[wadesworld]

You didn't read the context of the quote then...... go figure.

I did read the content of the quote. Someone wants MU to retaliate and take a cheap shot at a Butler player. You took a shot at Wojo saying no chance that happens, Wojo teams shake hands instead of throw cheap shots.

You want a program like Bill Self runs (fight your opponent when they do something you don't like) and not one like Wojo runs (shake hands after a game like a good boy).

Sorry your stupidity is being called out and you don't like it.

[WhiteTrash]

What are you talking about?

How will it cost Marquette a game when there won't even be a foul called?

Do you read before you reply.

I read exactly what you wrote: "it's an elbow to the head.." = flagrant foul.

"and the refs better not call a foul"; just because you say so?
Brother, if you have that sort of pull in Big East games, please use it.

[MikeDeanesDarkGlasses]

I did read the content of the quote. Someone wants MU to retaliate and take a cheap shot at a Butler player. You took a shot at Wojo saying no chance that happens, Wojo teams shake hands instead of throw cheap shots.

You want a program like Bill Self runs (fight your opponent when they do something you don't like) and not one like Wojo runs (shake hands after a game like a good boy).

Sorry your stupidity is being called out and you don't like it.

No, I want a program that doesn't recruit crap like Jayce and coaches up players like Markus Howard.  Ohhh and it'd be nice if the coach knew the score as well going into the final possession.  We're still working on the fouling thing in close games near the end though.  Maybe we will figure it out by the conference tourney.....

Bottom Line:  I feel sorry for the kids; the coach makes them soft.

Further Note:  Talked to someone who used to play for the program and is coaching now.  He doesn't understand what Wojo is doing either......

[WhoaJoe2020]

I read exactly what you wrote: "it's an elbow to the head.." = flagrant foul.

"and the refs better not call a foul"; just because you say so?
Brother, if you have that sort of pull in Big East games, please use it.

Oh, now you get it.......

An elbow to the head is a flagrant foul.

I'm glad you explained it to me.

[WhiteTrash]

It might have had something to do with it.....

Ya think?

I don't. Butler was the tougher, better coached team and home team tonight.

I've been watching Big East basketball for a long time and I didn't see anything unusual tonight. If you think so, then you must think MU has been Very Lucky over the years at home. (If you are being fair about evaluating refs)

[WhoaJoe2020]

I don't. Butler was the tougher, better coached team and home team tonight.

I've been watching Big East basketball for a long time and I didn't see anything unusual tonight. If you think so, then you must think MU has been Very Lucky over the years at home. (If you are being fair about evaluating refs)

I'm saying Marquettes best player got elbowed in the head and no call. He wasn't the same from that point on in a game that went to overtime.

Is it really that hard to understand??

[WhiteTrash]

Oh, now you get it.......

An elbow to the head is a flagrant foul.

I'm glad you explained it to me.

Joe, I quoted you. What more do you want? I did not confirm or validate your comments.You need to read all the posts my friend.

How about we move past this disaster of a game and focus on the rest of the season? I hope we can agree on the urgency of the next game?

[WhiteTrash]

I'm saying Marquettes best player got elbowed in the head and no call. He wasn't the same from that point on in a game that went to overtime.

Is it really that hard to understand??

You feel MU lost because of the refs? Got It. Good luck with that perspective going forward. College basketball will be a dark place for you.

[WhoaJoe2020]

You feel MU lost because of the refs? Got It. Good luck with that perspective going forward. College basketball will be a dark place for you.

I'm saying Marquette lost a close game after its best player got intentionally elbowed in the head AND didn't get a call.

You see. There are two parts there.

Marquettes best player being injured, making winning more unlikely AND Kamar not getting a flagrant or any other kind of foul called, making winning more likely for Butler.

So no, it wasn't just the refs, but that one play sure changed the complexion of the game.

I actually credit Butlers fans. They got on the refs so much that they ignored a Kamar Baldwin elbow to the head of Markus Howard.

I wish Marquette had more fans like that.

[MikeDeanesDarkGlasses]

I'm saying Marquette lost a close game after its best player got intentionally elbowed in the head AND didn't get a call.

You see. There are two parts there.

Marquettes best player being injured, making winning more unlikely AND Kamar not getting a flagrant or any other kind of foul called, making winning more likely for Butler.

So no, it wasn't just the refs, but that one play sure changed the complexion of the game.

I actually credit Butlers fans. They got on the refs so much that they ignored a Kamar Baldwin elbow to the head of Markus Howard.

I wish Marquette had more fans like that.

So tell me why we didn't double team Baldwin again?  Exactly......

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

So tell me why we didn't double team Baldwin again?  Exactly......

Because typically when you are forcing a player to settle for a long pull up 2, you live with it if he makes them. Credit to Baldwin, he was making all of them. Some coaches would pull out the double team there, others wouldn't overcorrect and allow for regression to the mean. Sometimes the former is the right move, sometime the latter is the right move. Wojo is definitely one that typically falls into the latter category. I don't know if doubling Baldwin would have worked, but we can say for sure that what he did roll out didn't work.

[MikeDeanesDarkGlasses]

Because typically when you are forcing a player to settle for a long pull up 2, you live with it if he makes them. Credit to Baldwin, he was making all of them. Some coaches would pull out the double team there, others wouldn't overcorrect and allow for regression to the mean. Sometimes the former is the right move, sometime the latter is the right move. Wojo is definitely one that typically falls into the latter category. I don't know if doubling Baldwin would have worked, but we can say for sure that what he did roll out didn't work.

I mean..... he hit 17 consecutive points basically.   You have to double team to disrupt at some point, especially when Theo John was having a great night protecting the rim.  Literally, no in game adjustment capability with Wojo. 

[Vander Blue Man Group]

Because typically when you are forcing a player to settle for a long pull up 2, you live with it if he makes them. Credit to Baldwin, he was making all of them. Some coaches would pull out the double team there, others wouldn't overcorrect and allow for regression to the mean. Sometimes the former is the right move, sometime the latter is the right move. Wojo is definitely one that typically falls into the latter category. I don't know if doubling Baldwin would have worked, but we can say for sure that what he did roll out didn't work.

IMO, the biggest shot he hit was a deep fadeaway 2 to cut the lead to 2 at the the end of regulation. It was really good difference and a better shot. Miss that one and it's probably a different story.

[CountryRoads]

For MU to have any chance of doing anything this year, they need a strong and fresh Markus at the end of games. It seems he often noticeably wears down.

Sorry for the awful formatting below, but I wanted to see how Howard shot the ball in "crunch" time in BE play since he's been an upperclassman. (Crunch time= ~6 min)

Looking at the data:
1. He was superman against Creighton. Wow.
2. He makes a ton of FTs at the end of games.
3. I thought he was really bad in these games: @Nova (2019), @Seton Hall (2019), @Butler (tonight). I didn't notice him being bad down the stretch in the Providence game this year but he didn't shoot that well.

Team                Score          Result   FGM          FGA        FG %         PTS            TO
St Johns           89-69           Loss             0            0        0.00%           0             0
Xavier           70-52           Win             1            3       33.33%   3             0
Creighton           106-104 OT   Win             7            9       77.78%   26             3
Seton Hall            70-66           Win             0            3         0.00%   0             2
Georgetown    74-71           Win             0            0        0.00%           0             0
Providence   79-68           Win             1            2       50.00%   6             1
Depaul           79-69           Win             0            1         0.00%   8             0
Xavier           87-82           Win             2            4       50.00%   9             0
Butler           76-58           Win             2            3       66.67%   5             2
St Johns           70-69           Loss             1            2       50.00%   3             0
Villanova           66-65           Win             2            3       66.67%   6             1
Depaul           92-73           Win             2            3        66.67%   7             1
Butler           79-69           Win             2            2      100.00%   7             3
Providence   76-58           Win             0            2        0.00%           6             0
Villanova           67-61           Loss             0            4        0.00%           1             1
Creighton           66-60           Loss             2            5       40.00%   6             2
Seton Hall           73-64           Loss             0            3         0.00%   0             1
Georgetown   86-84           Loss             1            1     100.00%   5             1
St Johns           86-54            Win             0            0        0.00%           2             0
Seton Hall           81-79           Loss             0            2        0.00%          11             0
Creighton           92-75           Loss             0            1        0.00%           2             0
Villanova           71-60            Win             0            2         0.00%           6             1
Providence   81-80 OT           Loss             2             8       25.00%   8             1
Seton Hall           69-55           Loss             0            3         0.00%   2             0
Xavier           85-65           Win             1            2        50.00%   3             0
Georgetown   84-80           Win             3            6        50.00%   11             0
St Johns           82-68           Win             1            3        33.33%   6             0
Butler           89-85 OT           Loss             1            9        11.11%   2             1
                     
                                                  31           86        36.05%