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Author Topic: Updated projections  (Read 4951 times)

Elonsmusk

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Re: Updated projections
« Reply #50 on: January 19, 2020, 09:21:04 PM »
Let’s be honest - your expectations for Wojo’s first year with what was left here have always been ludicrous. Can’t make chicken salad out of chicken sh*t.

My expectation was that he would use good judgment and common sense and invest in the future of the program - the talented freshman class he inherited, instead of bringing in a grad transfer and maxing the time of Derrick Wilson.

That decision-making led us to a 4-14 Big East finish, resulted in Deonte and Dawson transferring out, and JJJ not getting valuable playing time/experience.

In my view that illustrated a general lack of common sense, which caused my alarms to go off that Wojo didn’t have it. He’s certainly not a quick study, and overtly bright. However, he is gritty and perhaps that will bear some fruit. My opinion is that we are seeing his plateau. It’s not awful...just disappointing given our previous two coaches did better.
No doubt there are cultural differences, but sports is important for many Asians.

Cheeks

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Re: Updated projections
« Reply #51 on: January 19, 2020, 09:32:04 PM »
And yet you crap all over the guy who Tom Crean brought here that gave us our best run since Al...and pretzel logic trajectory graphs to prop up his replacement. Gotcha.

You are the one that wants Wojo fired, I never once said that about Buzz.  I also said he should be coach of the year.  He’s fake...so is Crean.  I want someone who wants to be at MU for 15 years, or at least 10....and someone that isn’t doing crap that is problematic in so many ways...that’s why I crapped on him.  He gone.  You going to continue to complain about him and Dawson for the next 20 years? Do us a favor, become an A&M fan then.
"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

Cheeks

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Re: Updated projections
« Reply #52 on: January 19, 2020, 09:36:10 PM »
My expectation was that he would use good judgment and common sense and invest in the future of the program - the talented freshman class he inherited, instead of bringing in a grad transfer and maxing the time of Derrick Wilson.

That decision-making led us to a 4-14 Big East finish, resulted in Deonte and Dawson transferring out, and JJJ not getting valuable playing time/experience.

In my view that illustrated a general lack of common sense, which caused my alarms to go off that Wojo didn’t have it. He’s certainly not a quick study, and overtly bright. However, he is gritty and perhaps that will bear some fruit. My opinion is that we are seeing his plateau. It’s not awful...just disappointing given our previous two coaches did better.

Please describe this fictional talented freshmen class.

Burton left because his mother died and he needed to get out of Milwaukee per his brother and sister...who repeated that just last year.
 
Dawson was talented?  In what?

Duane was injured, nice kid...worked hard...was never a program changer that you imply.

That class was the most overrated top 10 class in MU history...add in Steve Taylor from a different class (also a mid major player like Cohen) and you have guys with nice numbers in recruiting rankings, but were not high major players. We’re all sorry that was the case, but it was.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2020, 09:44:03 PM by Cheeks »
"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

Cheeks

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Re: Updated projections
« Reply #53 on: January 19, 2020, 09:41:39 PM »
Sure, but MU has stuck with Wojo too...haven't they?? He has been there 6 years now...6 F'n years! You still have never ever expalined) to me without using some BS excuse for this or that, how Crean and Buzz both had conference titles(Buzz's in the best conference ever assembled-can't use that as a reason), after 5 years at MU as well as deep tournament success, and Wojo hasn't. You always talk about apples to apples...5 years is 5 years..Buzz was in a BETTER Big East...can't use the "look what he started with)"because what he started with was long gone by then(or a vast majority of it), just as what Wojo started with is long gone. It's totally his guys now..it has been for a few years, yet he hasn't come close to matching what TC or Buzz did after 5 years...yet you act like he has been so accomplished. They have stuck with Wojo(and Wojo has decided to stay) just as long as Buzz and TC did. Everything is even so to speak..so you can't use the stability line either...what's the REASON?? Not an EXCUSE, the reason he hasn't accomplished as much?? I know the answer...it's glaringly obvious, though you will give some BS answer instead of admitting the truth.

I can give you many coaches that didn’t win a conference title or a NCAA game in the time their predecessor did, but ended up doing great in the long run.

Your problem is that you think everything is exactly the same....sorry, life doesn’t work that way.  I’m patient and will stick with him....you want to continue the turnover...an absolute recipe for disaster.
"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

WhoaJoe2020

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Re: Updated projections
« Reply #54 on: January 19, 2020, 11:48:44 PM »
Sure, but MU has stuck with Wojo too...haven't they?? He has been there 6 years now...6 F'n years! You still have never ever expalined) to me without using some BS excuse for this or that, how Crean and Buzz both had conference titles(Buzz's in the best conference ever assembled-can't use that as a reason), after 5 years at MU as well as deep tournament success, and Wojo hasn't. You always talk about apples to apples...5 years is 5 years..Buzz was in a BETTER Big East...can't use the "look what he started with)"because what he started with was long gone by then(or a vast majority of it), just as what Wojo started with is long gone. It's totally his guys now..it has been for a few years, yet he hasn't come close to matching what TC or Buzz did after 5 years...yet you act like he has been so accomplished. They have stuck with Wojo(and Wojo has decided to stay) just as long as Buzz and TC did. Everything is even so to speak..so you can't use the stability line either...what's the REASON?? Not an EXCUSE, the reason he hasn't accomplished as much?? I know the answer...it's glaringly obvious, though you will give some BS answer instead of admitting the truth.

Just because you declare that the circumstances at the beginning of Wojos tenure can't be considered, when comparing his year 5 accomplishments with a Coach X, doesn't mean others have to abide by the arbitrary condition you set.

Just like your declaration that all things are equal after year 5 doesn't have to be accepted by others.

Mitigating circumstances should always be considered when comparing people and historical events. Referring to them as excuses is just a cheap way to try and win an argument.



« Last Edit: January 20, 2020, 01:29:24 AM by WhoaJoe2020 »

Heisenberg v2.0

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Re: Updated projections
« Reply #55 on: January 20, 2020, 06:41:05 AM »
KenPom Rankings Chart

willie warrior

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Re: Updated projections
« Reply #56 on: January 20, 2020, 07:00:39 AM »
One year removed from a second place finish.

One year removed from a huge melt down last month of season. All in the spin, aana?

lawdog77

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Re: Updated projections
« Reply #57 on: January 20, 2020, 08:36:11 AM »

One year removed from a huge melt down last month of season. All in the spin, aana?
Second place finish is a fact. "meltdown" is an opinion.

tower912

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Re: Updated projections
« Reply #58 on: January 20, 2020, 08:39:29 AM »
It is a fact that MU finished second in the Big East last year.   It is also a fact that MU finished 1-6 last year.   After that, it does start to get into perspective and speculation.
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

MU82

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Re: Updated projections
« Reply #59 on: January 20, 2020, 08:55:16 AM »
It is a fact that MU finished second in the Big East last year.   It is also a fact that MU finished 1-6 last year.   After that, it does start to get into perspective and speculation.

Yessir. Too often folks on this forum (and most others on the interwebs) act as if everything is mutually exclusive. We were OK the first couple weeks of last season, we were one of the best teams in the country for the next 3 months, and we stunk out every arena we played in the last few weeks. All of those are facts. We get to choose our own opinions, but not our own facts.
"Real change, enduring change, happens one step at a time."

-- Ruth Bader Ginsburg

Cheeks

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Re: Updated projections
« Reply #60 on: January 20, 2020, 09:11:30 AM »
MU back to 10-8 projection....two weeks ago it was 7-11 with one ranking.

Go Warriors.

Now back to 9-9....split with DePaul per KenPom.
"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

Elonsmusk

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Re: Updated projections
« Reply #61 on: January 20, 2020, 10:01:12 AM »
Now back to 9-9....split with DePaul per KenPom.

Could you in all of your infinite wisdom and intelligence, please define for the board, trajectory and plateau?  Care to place a wager that next year's team finishes worse than this year's? 
No doubt there are cultural differences, but sports is important for many Asians.

tower912

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Re: Updated projections
« Reply #62 on: January 20, 2020, 10:05:28 AM »
I think it likely that next year's team takes a step back.   I get nervous whenever the key to a season is the performance of freshmen.   But I remain more positive than kenpom about this year's team.
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

jesmu84

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Re: Updated projections
« Reply #63 on: January 20, 2020, 12:02:09 PM »
Could you in all of your infinite wisdom and intelligence, please define for the board, trajectory and plateau?  Care to place a wager that next year's team finishes worse than this year's?

I like this.

Last year, NoJoers refused to acknowledge the positive trend across Wojo's time at the helm. Now, they acknowledge the trend/trajectory but are jumping at the chance to argue he has plateaued because this year (so far) is relatively the same as last years.

Perfect.

Interesting to note though that this year's performance includes the loss of the Hausers and in a tougher BE conference. So, doesn't this years (so far) steady rankings indicate - at least a partial factor - Wojo's acumen as a coach?

Pakuni

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Re: Updated projections
« Reply #64 on: January 20, 2020, 12:10:01 PM »
I think it likely that next year's team takes a step back.   I get nervous whenever the key to a season is the performance of freshmen.   But I remain more positive than kenpom about this year's team.

Better never become a Kentucky or Duke fan.

Elonsmusk

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Re: Updated projections
« Reply #65 on: January 20, 2020, 12:15:27 PM »
I like this.

Last year, NoJoers refused to acknowledge the positive trend across Wojo's time at the helm. Now, they acknowledge the trend/trajectory but are jumping at the chance to argue he has plateaued because this year (so far) is relatively the same as last years.

Perfect.

Interesting to note though that this year's performance includes the loss of the Hausers and in a tougher BE conference. So, doesn't this years (so far) steady rankings indicate - at least a partial factor - Wojo's acumen as a coach?

My take:  Wojo's tenure will vacillate between 30-60 rankings.  The team is doing better than I thought they would this season, so credit to Wojo.  I do think it is really hard to get a true read on how much of that is coaching acumen, versus how much is the greatness of Markus Howard.  Based on Wojo's first few years on the job, I feel our success is more a function of Markus's greatness, than Wojo's coaching prowess.
No doubt there are cultural differences, but sports is important for many Asians.

tower912

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Re: Updated projections
« Reply #66 on: January 20, 2020, 04:54:39 PM »
Better never become a Kentucky or Duke fan.
The formula doesn't always work even for them.
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

jesmu84

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Re: Updated projections
« Reply #67 on: January 20, 2020, 06:29:50 PM »
My take:  Wojo's tenure will vacillate between 30-60 rankings.  The team is doing better than I thought they would this season, so credit to Wojo.  I do think it is really hard to get a true read on how much of that is coaching acumen, versus how much is the greatness of Markus Howard.  Based on Wojo's first few years on the job, I feel our success is more a function of Markus's greatness, than Wojo's coaching prowess.

I hope he proves us all wrong.

WhoaJoe2020

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Re: Updated projections
« Reply #68 on: January 20, 2020, 06:40:21 PM »
I like this.

Last year, NoJoers refused to acknowledge the positive trend across Wojo's time at the helm. Now, they acknowledge the trend/trajectory but are jumping at the chance to argue he has plateaued because this year (so far) is relatively the same as last years.

Perfect.

Interesting to note though that this year's performance includes the loss of the Hausers and in a tougher BE conference. So, doesn't this years (so far) steady rankings indicate - at least a partial factor - Wojo's acumen as a coach?

I guess the only solution is to become a better place kicker.

Cheeks

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Re: Updated projections
« Reply #69 on: January 20, 2020, 06:44:59 PM »
My take:  Wojo's tenure will vacillate between 30-60 rankings.  The team is doing better than I thought they would this season, so credit to Wojo.  I do think it is really hard to get a true read on how much of that is coaching acumen, versus how much is the greatness of Markus Howard.  Based on Wojo's first few years on the job, I feel our success is more a function of Markus's greatness, than Wojo's coaching prowess.

Well 3 of the last 4 years (counting this season) have been between 29 and 37...so I’m thinking a tighter band.

Looking forward to seeing how he does with the next group of young men coming in.
"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

 

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