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Author Topic: I didn't get to watch the game...  (Read 10530 times)

WhiteTrash

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Re: I didn't get to watch the game...
« Reply #200 on: January 18, 2020, 10:00:10 AM »
What?  You said “MU should not and will not stick with an underperforming coach because they are too afraid to hire a new coach. This was proven with Deane.”     

You have also said Wojo has underperformed, have you not?   So you compare one underperforming coach to another and go on to talk about the faith you have in MU replacing underperforming coaches.  Honestly do not know how you can say you aren’t comparing the two in the manner of them both being underperforming in your eyes.
You are making this way harder than it needs to be. You accurately quoted me about Deane and MU. MU is not afraid that they cannot attract a great coach and will fire a coach when they need to. I know you disagree, but that's my position.

As for "Wojo underperforming"; I have said many times I agreed with his extension.  I think he has done just enough to keep his job. But more importantly, MU (who you don't consider competent) thinks the same as evidenced by his modest extension.

Do you twist everyone's post here or is it just me?
« Last Edit: January 18, 2020, 10:02:40 AM by WhiteTrash »

Cheeks

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Re: I didn't get to watch the game...
« Reply #201 on: January 18, 2020, 10:04:27 AM »
I don't know the exact numbers but my perception is you don't often see P6 coaches going to other P6 jobs. Arizona, UCLA, Kentucky and Indiana all hired from outside the P6. I know it does happen but not too often.

This is true, but even high established non P6 coaches as well.... MU isn’t getting them,...see Shaka.


I go back to my earlier statement, for all those fans here that want to be Gonzaga, Villanova, etc....their coaches have been there a long time and they didn’t always have great runs.  The schools stuck with them and they got stability.  We haven’t had a decade long coach since Al McGuire....ironically.
"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

Cheeks

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Re: I didn't get to watch the game...
« Reply #202 on: January 18, 2020, 10:06:38 AM »
100%? Really? I’ll go out on a limb and say there is ample history that disagrees. If, for example, Bob Dukiet was the “best candidate” for the job when he was hired then the list of potential coaches must have been awful.


Rick did us a major disservice walking away in June.  Coaches are hired in April...not June.  Newell turned us down, but coaches of any legit quality are not leaving in June.
"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

Cheeks

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Re: I didn't get to watch the game...
« Reply #203 on: January 18, 2020, 10:08:50 AM »
You are making this way harder than it needs to be. You accurately quoted me about Deane and MU. MU is not afraid that they cannot attract a great coach and will fire a coach when they need to. I know you disagree, but that's my position.

As for "Wojo underperforming"; I have said many times I agreed with his extension.  I think he has done just enough to keep his job. But more importantly, MU (who you don't consider competent) thinks the same as evidenced by his modest extension.

Do you twist everyone's post here or is it just me?

Ironic that you say I twist your words and then say I consider MU incompetent....please point to where I said that.
"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

tower912

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Re: I didn't get to watch the game...
« Reply #204 on: January 18, 2020, 10:31:29 AM »
This is true, but even high established non P6 coaches as well.... MU isn’t getting them,...see Shaka.


I go back to my earlier statement, for all those fans here that want to be Gonzaga, Villanova, etc....their coaches have been there a long time and they didn’t always have great runs.  The schools stuck with them and they got stability.  We haven’t had a decade long coach since Al McGuire....ironically.

You also made the case about Willard, as once upon a time he was considered an idiot who couldn't coach.
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

Cheeks

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Re: I didn't get to watch the game...
« Reply #205 on: January 18, 2020, 10:36:38 AM »
You also made the case about Willard, as once upon a time he was considered an idiot who couldn't coach.

Correct. 
"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

WhiteTrash

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Re: I didn't get to watch the game...
« Reply #206 on: January 18, 2020, 10:37:18 AM »
Ironic that you say I twist your words and then say I consider MU incompetent....please point to where I said that.
You make it clear to everyone that MU should not fire Wojo because they can't do better. That does not sound like someone who thinks highly of MU and it's ability to run a high major program. As if MU position is "yeh our coach isn't that good but that's the best we can do"

Correct me if I'm wrong. (I know you will)

If you we're true Pro-Jo and not anti-MU, you'd point to all the positives about Wojo and why MU should stick with him. Instead you show no faith in MU with your "be careful what you wish for" comments.


Cheeks

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Re: I didn't get to watch the game...
« Reply #207 on: January 18, 2020, 10:50:42 AM »
You make it clear to everyone that MU should not fire Wojo because they can't do better. That does not sound like someone who thinks highly of MU and it's ability to run a high major program. As if MU position is "yeh our coach isn't that good but that's the best we can do"

Correct me if I'm wrong. (I know you will)

If you we're true Pro-Jo and not anti-MU, you'd point to all the positives about Wojo and why MU should stick with him. Instead you show no faith in MU with your "be careful what you wish for" comments.

Ahh. So twisting someone's words...got it.

No, I didn't say MU cannot do better, I pointed out be careful what you wish for because it isn't a slam dunk.  I went on to show examples, including those at MU.   I also said, that I think MU will make the best hire they can, but that doesn't align with the expectations people have here when some folks are throwing around Rick Pitino, Matt Painter, Gregg Marshall, etc, etc.   If we would get Gregg Marshall today....SIGN ME UP.   It ain't happening, but whatever.

I've pointed out CONSTANTLY the reasons why he should stay, all you have to do is read them.  Things like the trajectory of the program since he took over, 2nd place last year, three straight post season bids, in-line for another this year, best recruiting class in at least 10 years next year, solid kids and on and on.  I've also said, I have my doubts about him....I've said that from the day he was hired in that being at Duke you get to work with polished products, not clay in which to mold them.  I've argued about stability and how MU has very little of it since McGuire.  I wonder why?  In my opinion he and the staff have done well with a number of guys, but certainly not all (no staff does).  So I'd invite you to actually read what I have said and be more informed....and from a purely ironic perspective it would serve you well.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2020, 10:52:28 AM by Cheeks »
"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

WhiteTrash

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Re: I didn't get to watch the game...
« Reply #208 on: January 18, 2020, 11:20:28 AM »
Ahh. So twisting someone's words...got it.

No, I didn't say MU cannot do better, I pointed out be careful what you wish for because it isn't a slam dunk.  I went on to show examples, including those at MU.   I also said, that I think MU will make the best hire they can, but that doesn't align with the expectations people have here when some folks are throwing around Rick Pitino, Matt Painter, Gregg Marshall, etc, etc.   If we would get Gregg Marshall today....SIGN ME UP.   It ain't happening, but whatever.

I've pointed out CONSTANTLY the reasons why he should stay, all you have to do is read them.  Things like the trajectory of the program since he took over, 2nd place last year, three straight post season bids, in-line for another this year, best recruiting class in at least 10 years next year, solid kids and on and on.  I've also said, I have my doubts about him....I've said that from the day he was hired in that being at Duke you get to work with polished products, not clay in which to mold them.  I've argued about stability and how MU has very little of it since McGuire.  I wonder why?  In my opinion he and the staff have done well with a number of guys, but certainly not all (no staff does).  So I'd invite you to actually read what I have said and be more informed....and from a purely ironic perspective it would serve you well.
I'll admit I have not read all your posts but was focusing on this thread only. I agree that MU will not get Marshall or the like. I also agree that there is (just) enough to like about Wojo to stick with him and to give him the extension. Wojo and MU basketball are far from a dumpster fire but not as good as any of us expect.

IMO, I'd rather read posts about Wojo's good points (even if I might disagree with some) than the argument that we can't do better. And as I said before, there is no guaranty the next coach will be better, but that should not stop MU from trying to get better.

I'm pleased to read that you think Wojo is heading to be a very good coach and we should stick with him. The facts we know about show MU feels the same way but have given themselves an easy out if he does not get better.

FWIW, I think the references to Wright and Few, do more harm than good. At this point Wojo has not had the level of success that those guys had 6 years in and also for every Wright there 100+ guys that failed with his similar career start. Just my opinion.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2020, 04:18:49 PM by WhiteTrash »

Dr. Blackheart

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Re: I didn't get to watch the game...
« Reply #209 on: January 18, 2020, 11:24:52 AM »
Scoop:  A House Divided

WhoaJoe2020

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Re: I didn't get to watch the game...
« Reply #210 on: January 18, 2020, 11:47:12 AM »
Scoop:  A House Divided

Scoop: A dog chasing its tail.

TAMU Eagle

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Re: I didn't get to watch the game...
« Reply #211 on: January 18, 2020, 12:31:51 PM »
100%? Really? I’ll go out on a limb and say there is ample history that disagrees. If, for example, Bob Dukiet was the “best candidate” for the job when he was hired then the list of potential coaches must have been awful.

Lenny, I'm talking about MU today, not MU before I was born. And the point I was making that you can hire the best candidate that everyone and their mother agrees is the best candidate (Shaka) and they can still be a bust.

Also, given where MU was in its history and the timing of Majerus' departure, I wouldn't be surprised if the list of potential coaches was awful.
God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
The courage to change the things I can,
And the wisdom to know the difference.

~Prayer of the Scooper

Cheeks

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Re: I didn't get to watch the game...
« Reply #212 on: January 18, 2020, 12:37:07 PM »
Lenny, I'm talking about MU today, not MU before I was born. And the point I was making that you can hire the best candidate that everyone and their mother agrees is the best candidate (Shaka) and they can still be a bust.

Also, given where MU was in its history and the timing of Majerus' departure, I wouldn't be surprised if the list of potential coaches was awful.

Yup.  June departure.  Raymond’s was so so tenure, Majerus never got to tournament, ghost of Al and all the alumni with more unicorn expectations.....not a long list.

What’s sad, the list after Al was huge, but we stayed in house. 
"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

mu03eng

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Re: I didn't get to watch the game...
« Reply #213 on: January 18, 2020, 12:39:11 PM »
Went after Sean Miller and Tony Bennett when Crean left.
Went after Shaka Smarr when Buzz left.

Also went after Bennett again when Buzz left
"A Plan? Oh man, I hate plans. That means were gonna have to do stuff. Can't we just have a strategy......or a mission statement."

jonny09

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Re: I didn't get to watch the game...
« Reply #214 on: January 18, 2020, 12:39:51 PM »
Also went after Bennett again when Buzz left

Did we go after Cheeks?  He knows sports.

Cheeks

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Re: I didn't get to watch the game...
« Reply #215 on: January 18, 2020, 12:40:36 PM »
Also went after Bennett again when Buzz left

Cuonzo Martin another
"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

 

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