Our second best player

[Cheeks]

What happened to Sacar killing it this summer?  Most improved on the team?  More complete garbage.  Just like morrow was the best player on the team when he was sitting out?  How can we ever believe any of this again?   That being said the second best player should sure as heck be sacar.  Fifth year senior, the effort just doesn't seem to be there some games.

Uhm, Sacar is averaging 12 points per game...the most in his career...first time ever in double digits.  Highest rebounds in his career, highest 3Pt Shooting %, highest blocks, etc.  His BPM is highest of his career.

[JamilJaeJamailJrJuan]

Anyone that thinks a guy taking 33 shots in a game is a good idea does not know ball. Any competitive person wants to be part of the action, not just watching one guy shoot every time down the court. The second half of the Buffalo game last season created a monster and the coach has allowed to continue.

Maybe Koby should hit more shots if he wants more shots.  Guy is broke as a joke right now.  I'd rather Markus shoot the ball with all 5 defenders draped on him than Koby wide open. 

[Markusquette]

Our second best player is the hottest of Bailey, Anim or Koby.  If none are hot we lose.  It's a tough proposition to not be able to have a reliable #2 but I think its the best we can hope for at this stage.

Pretty much this. There is no clear-cut #2 which is a definite problem. I think it should be Anim because of experience and his skill set. Koby has a lot of physical tools but a low bbiq. Brendan by the end of the year will be a more obvious number 2 I think. We desperately need 1 or 2 guys that can create their own shot and drive well. McEwen must prove he can finish around the rim.

[MU82]

MU82

Have you looked at Howard's BE stats thus far this season. His BE start is looking a lot like Joey's swan song month at MU. Only difference, Howard takes about 3-4 times more shots per game.

Goose

Yep, Markus' BEast stats haven't been very good. He indeed has averaged 3 times as many shots  during our conference games so far this season as Joey did down the stretch last season.

Now, you are quite knowledgeable about basketball, so you know all about usage. You also know that while Joey benefited greatly from having both Markus and Sam occupy the attention of opposing defenses, Markus benefits from ... whom? You already have declared, perhaps accurately, that not a single one of Markus' teammates would get much (if any) playing time at a top-10 program. How many times was Joey double-teamed down the stretch last season? How many coaches set up their entire defensive gameplan to shut down Joey Hauser? They didn't have to; he shut himself down.

Markus is the only Warrior who can consistently create his own shot, and he is one of the best shooters in the world. But sure, it would be great if a few other Warriors could take and make more open shots, if we had a couple more guys who could finish around the rim, etc.

When it came to getting wide-open looks last season, Sam and Joey benefited significantly from having an All-American on the court with them. For example, in the 5-game stretch after the famous we-didn't-need-Markus-to-beat-Georgetown game, Sam averaged 20 ppg playing alongside Markus. And, for most of the season, the All-American benefited from having Sam and Joey, too -- it definitely was a two-way street, and I would never claim otherwise.

It's too bad that two of those players decided they couldn't coexist with the third. Would have been nice to have seen what this team could have done if they hadn't quit the program.

[Cheeks]

Maybe Koby should hit more shots if he wants more shots.  Guy is broke as a joke right now.  I'd rather Markus shoot the ball with all 5 defenders draped on him than Koby wide open.

Yup.  Maybe people are seeing something different than I am, but I would say most of Markus' shots are in the flow of the game.  Not all, he still forces some absolutely.  He's an elite shooter and scorer, you let elite shooter / scorer....shoot and score.  He defers plenty.

I keep reading about this nonsense if only Howard passed to Hauser in the Seton Hall game last year in the Big East tournament.  #1) No guarantee Hauser makes it.  #2) Hauser was 1 of 5 in the last ten minutes of that game, the one shot on an assist from.....Markus Howard.  Sam had a good game, but struggled at the end. Markus was awful shooting, including (for him) at the free throw line...he did lead the team in assists that game for those that actually nailed their shots.  When the game got big, some guys didn't step up.

[Silent Verbal]

A couple of problems here ...

1. The Hausers, especially Joey, were not very good down the stretch. During the team's end-of-season slump, Joey shot 39% overall, 32% from 3 and 63% from the line, averaging 2.6 TOs and 8.4 ppg. Sam was better -- 40% overall, 39% from 3, 1.000% from the line, 1.6 TO and 13.7 ppg. Markus sucked, too ... but to suggest that the season could have been saved by going to the Hausers, especially Joey, who by that time had been in a month-long tailspin and had become both a turnover machine and a severe defensive liability ... seems like pretty wishful thinking.

2. A college coach cannot submit to player demands. Now, neither you nor I were there, so neither of us knows how this all played out. If Sam approached Wojo as a captain and had a genuine heart-to-heart with him about his concerns and what might be done, that's one thing. If there really was a letter, or if there was some other kind of ultimatum or attempted coup, that's a very different thing. Maybe neither of those things occurred. We don't know. What I am fairly certain of is that most coaches do not react well to players telling them what to do. I'm pretty sure that if the 2nd and 3rd best Michigan State players went to Izzo and told him that they were outta there if he didn't rein in Cassius Winston, he'd tell them not to let the door hit them on the way out.

I agree that we'll never know what happened and also that coaches don't like and shouldn't have to put up with players telling them what to do.  That said, did you see the play I referenced on the first page of this thread?  It seems a situation is starting to brew again, only this time it's with Koby, who does not seem to like passing the ball to Markus.  Let's hope it's just Koby who (possibly) feels this way, and not other players as well.  This team doesn't have the talent to withstand locker room drama.

I guess my point is, for the last four years, and especially the last two, Wojo has chosen to go down the line with Markus.  He's even given him special treatment at times, like allowing him to go home the summer before his junior year.  I remember reading an interview with Stan earlier this season, and his first words in the interview were, "Markus is amazing."  What do you think it does to a guy's ego when all he hears from the people who are basically his surrogate parents is that he's Saint God Among Men?  It'll be interesting to see, when all is said and done this year, how many NCAA wins this approach got us over the course of Markus' career.

As a side note, I do think Markus is a fantastic scorer, probably the best scorer ever at MU, and terrifically fun to watch.  I'm just not sure if "all of it, all the time" was the wisest strategy these last couple years.

[Jockey]

Goose

Yep, Markus' BEast stats haven't been very good. He indeed has averaged 3 times as many shots  during our conference games so far this season as Joey did down the stretch last season.

Now, you are quite knowledgeable about basketball, so you know all about usage. You also know that while Joey benefited greatly from having both Markus and Sam occupy the attention of opposing defenses, Markus benefits from ... whom? You already have declared, perhaps accurately, that not a single one of Markus' teammates would get much (if any) playing time at a top-10 program. How many times was Joey double-teamed down the stretch last season? How many coaches set up their entire defensive gameplan to shut down Joey Hauser? They didn't have to; he shut himself down.

Markus is the only Warrior who can consistently create his own shot, and he is one of the best shooters in the world. But sure, it would be great if a few other Warriors could take and make more open shots, if we had a couple more guys who could finish around the rim, etc.

When it came to getting wide-open looks last season, Sam and Joey benefited significantly from having an All-American on the court with them. For example, in the 5-game stretch after the famous we-didn't-need-Markus-to-beat-Georgetown game, Sam averaged 20 ppg playing alongside Markus. And, for most of the season, the All-American benefited from having Sam and Joey, too -- it definitely was a two-way street, and I would never claim otherwise.

It's too bad that two of those players decided they couldn't coexist with the third. Would have been nice to have seen what this team could have done if they hadn't quit the program.

Great take, Mike.

In an ideal world, it would be great if MH was taking 15 shots a game because that would mean other guys were making shot.

But complaining after a game that MH shot too much when the 3 front court starters went 3 for 21 is beyond ludicrous.

[WhoaJoe2020]

Uhm, Sacar is averaging 12 points per game...the most in his career...first time ever in double digits.  Highest rebounds in his career, highest 3Pt Shooting %, highest blocks, etc.  His BPM is highest of his career.

Obviously the correct answer.

The problem is that he needs to be even more assertive offensively with Sam and Joey gone. He's playing like they're  still here. Maybe he thinks Brendan and Koby can replace the Hausers and he can play the way he always has in the past. Letting the game come to him and picking his spots to be aggressive on offense.

As a senior leader,(although I seldom see him actively leading, and could be wrong because I'm not in the team huddles) and the second best player on the team, he needs to do better than the numbers you cited. Is it fair to EXPECT more from Sacar? Maybe or maybe not. I do know we NEED more from him. That's obvious.

[Cheeks]

Goose

Yep, Markus' BEast stats haven't been very good. He indeed has averaged 3 times as many shots  during our conference games so far this season as Joey did down the stretch last season.

Now, you are quite knowledgeable about basketball, so you know all about usage. You also know that while Joey benefited greatly from having both Markus and Sam occupy the attention of opposing defenses, Markus benefits from ... whom? You already have declared, perhaps accurately, that not a single one of Markus' teammates would get much (if any) playing time at a top-10 program. How many times was Joey double-teamed down the stretch last season? How many coaches set up their entire defensive gameplan to shut down Joey Hauser? They didn't have to; he shut himself down.

Markus is the only Warrior who can consistently create his own shot, and he is one of the best shooters in the world. But sure, it would be great if a few other Warriors could take and make more open shots, if we had a couple more guys who could finish around the rim, etc.

When it came to getting wide-open looks last season, Sam and Joey benefited significantly from having an All-American on the court with them. For example, in the 5-game stretch after the famous we-didn't-need-Markus-to-beat-Georgetown game, Sam averaged 20 ppg playing alongside Markus. And, for most of the season, the All-American benefited from having Sam and Joey, too -- it definitely was a two-way street, and I would never claim otherwise.

It's too bad that two of those players decided they couldn't coexist with the third. Would have been nice to have seen what this team could have done if they hadn't quit the program.

Exceptionally well said.

[Marcus92]

Is it fair to EXPECT more from Sacar? Maybe or maybe not. I do know we NEED more from him. That's obvious.

If Marquette is going to be a factor in the chase for a Big East title and the NCAA tournament, we need more from everyone: Sacar, Koby, Brendan, Theo, Ed, Jayce, Jamal, Greg, Symir -- and Markus.

As the team's leader, Markus is responsible for far more than scoring. Truly great players find a way to bring out the best in their teammates. Markus helps set the tone when it comes to things like communication, focus, defensive effort, protecting the ball, passing, et cetera.

With seven upperclassmen on the roster, experience should be a big plus for this team. Sacar, Ed and Jayce need to dig deep, step up and demonstrate what senior leadership really means. And players like Koby, Brendan, Theo and Jamal can't show up only part of the time. Competition in the Big East is too tough to get by with anything less than 100% effort.

I don't think a lack of talent is the issue. Marquette had enough talent to beat quality opponents like Purdue and Villanova -- not through unbelievable shooting, but through outstanding team defense. The biggest issue I see is a lack of consistency. There's still time to turn the corner. But it better happen fast.

[skianth16]

As the team's leader, Markus is responsible for far more than scoring. Truly great players find a way to bring out the best in their teammates. Markus helps set the tone when it comes to things like communication, focus, defensive effort, protecting the ball, passing, et cetera.

I've seen both Markus and Sacar coach up the younger guys after a miscue a number of times this year. Rather than reacting negatively, they grabbed a guy by the waist and quietly offered some words of advice. And while I obviously couldn't hear what was said, the body language and the reaction of the other guy sure made these interactions seem well-intentioned and well-received. I see room for improvement in a number of areas, but I think we do have a couple very good senior leaders in this group.

[MU82]

I agree that we'll never know what happened and also that coaches don't like and shouldn't have to put up with players telling them what to do.  That said, did you see the play I referenced on the first page of this thread?  It seems a situation is starting to brew again, only this time it's with Koby, who does not seem to like passing the ball to Markus.  Let's hope it's just Koby who (possibly) feels this way, and not other players as well.  This team doesn't have the talent to withstand locker room drama.

I guess my point is, for the last four years, and especially the last two, Wojo has chosen to go down the line with Markus.  He's even given him special treatment at times, like allowing him to go home the summer before his junior year.  I remember reading an interview with Stan earlier this season, and his first words in the interview were, "Markus is amazing."  What do you think it does to a guy's ego when all he hears from the people who are basically his surrogate parents is that he's Saint God Among Men?  It'll be interesting to see, when all is said and done this year, how many NCAA wins this approach got us over the course of Markus' career.

As a side note, I do think Markus is a fantastic scorer, probably the best scorer ever at MU, and terrifically fun to watch.  I'm just not sure if "all of it, all the time" was the wisest strategy these last couple years.

I did see the play you referenced. Whether intentional (I hope not, because it hurt the team) or simply because Koby didn't see Markus, Markus was open and should have gotten the ball. I did see Markus' second of frustration. I wish he wouldn't have shown it, but he's human, too. I haven't seen it before from him, nor did I see it again during the game. Neither you nor I is privy to any information suggesting this "means" anything, big-picture. I guess we'll see.

The star of any team usually gets special treatment. Look around pro and college basketball. You don't think Jordan and Laettner got special treatment? You don't think LeBron and Powell do? You don't think Wiseman did during his short time at Memphis? It happens in high school, middle school and BiddyBall, too.

As a coach, I have a saying: "I am not going to treat everybody equally, but I am going to treat everybody fairly." Most understand what that means; some, I have to explain it to, but they get it after I do.

Markus is a special player. I would be stunned only if Wojo didn't give him "special treatment."

[cheebs09]

This.  I think a lot of other coach's defensive strategy against us is "let Markus get his, and stop everyone else."  If no one steps up to fill the other scoring role, we lose.

I think it's the opposite. It seems to me teams are hounding Markus and putting a lot of pressure on him knowing they won't get burned by the supporting cast. Even if one guy gets hot, it's fine if life is difficult on Markus.

The offense breaks down when Markus is pressured since our solution seems to be dribbling out of pressure. We lose our flow and Markus is forced into tough shots. He is really good at hitting tough shots, so his stats look ok. Paint Touches showed his stats against A teams are not great this year.

We don't have a lot of guys that can create shots. When driving, it feels like we either throw a prayer up at the rim hoping for a call or stop and pivot in the paint. In tougher games, we haven't been hitting 3s at the rate to start the year.

[WhoaJoe2020]

With seven upperclassmen on the roster, experience should be a big plus for this team.

Only two of the seven have experience playing big minutes in the BEast.

This years team actually has far less real experience than last years team.

Just another going away present from the Hausers to Marquette and its fans.

[Goose]

MU82

I noted Koby not wanting to pass the ball to Howard a few games ago. No idea if a chemistry problem or Koby feels he is a better option for the team to score.

[JamilJaeJamailJrJuan]

MU82

I noted Koby not wanting to pass the ball to Howard a few games ago. No idea if a chemistry problem or Koby feels he is a better option for the team to score.

Koby is high AF if he thinks he is better at anything on the offensive side of the ball than Markus. 

[WhoaJoe2020]

MU82

I noted Koby not wanting to pass the ball to Howard a few games ago. No idea if a chemistry problem or Koby feels he is a better option for the team to score.

I saw this a few times and I don't know if I blame Koby. There are times in games when Markus shoots so many times in a row that he ices his own team.
Having played on a team with a guy EXACTLY like Markus I know what it's like. I didn't have a problem with him taking most of the shots, but when he started thinking he should take all of the shots that became an issue. It was settled after the game in a less than pleasant manner. I don't want it to come to that with the players this year. Maybe if Sam had called Markus out earlier the situation wouldn't have escalated, and we wouldn't even be discussing Markus and Koby.
Regardless......it is what it is.

[skianth16]

Only two of the seven have experience playing big minutes in the BEast.

This years team actually has far less real experience than last years team.

Just another going away present from the Hausers to Marquette and its fans.

You need to get past this take. It's wrong. We have a wealth of good experience on this team. It's crazy to me that you continue to try to argue otherwise.

Theo was a starter all year last year and had to have averaged at least 20 mpg in conference play. Jamal was probably in the 15 mpg area as a freshman but took a step back last year with Joey on the roster. Ed didn't earn many minutes last year, but he's used to playing high major basketball from his time at Nebraska. And Jayce averaged 22 mpg in the Pac 12 last year. So all but 1 upperclassmen are used to playing meaningful minutes at the P6 level.

[hairy worthen]

I saw this a few times and I don't know if I blame Koby. There are times in games when Markus shoots so many times in a row that he ices his own team.
Having played on a team with a guy EXACTLY like Markus I know what it's like. I didn't have a problem with him taking most of the shots, but when he started thinking he should take all of the shots that became an issue. It was settled after the game in a less than pleasant manner. I don't want it to come to that with the players this year. Maybe if Sam had called Markus out earlier the situation wouldn't have escalated, and we wouldn't even be discussing Markus and Koby.
Regardless......it is what it is.

Or maybe the coach should actually be a coach and step in before it escalates. Just a thought.

[Markusquette]

You need to get past this take. It's wrong. We have a wealth of good experience on this team. It's crazy to me that you continue to try to argue otherwise.

Theo was a starter all year last year and had to have averaged at least 20 mpg in conference play. Jamal was probably in the 15 mpg area as a freshman but took a step back last year with Joey on the roster. Ed didn't earn many minutes last year, but he's used to playing high major basketball from his time at Nebraska. And Jayce averaged 22 mpg in the Pac 12 last year. So all but 1 upperclassmen are used to playing meaningful minutes at the P6 level.

Actual game experience as a unit and continuity is important though. This team doesn't have a lot of guys that have played consistently with each other outside of the off-season. The experience lost with Sam's departure is not really accounted for.

The bigs definitely have experience, but four of our wings + backup PG have not played big-time minutes or at least for a while (Greg and Koby out). I still don't think it's much of an excuse.

[Marcus92]

I agree that actual game experience as a unit matters. But we're halfway through the season. If Marquette is going to find a way to consistently play better as a team, it's now or never.

[GooooMarquette]

Great take, Mike.

In an ideal world, it would be great if MH was taking 15 shots a game because that would mean other guys were making shot.

But complaining after a game that MH shot too much when the 3 front court starters went 3 for 21 is beyond ludicrous.

Yep. Lower usage for Markus would be great...if others were hitting their shots. But Markus is shooting constantly because others are getting chances and missing.

As one example, how on earth can Theo be shooting only 45.5% (0-3 Saturday) when he never shoots further than two feet from the hoop?!?

[skianth16]

Actual game experience as a unit and continuity is important though. This team doesn't have a lot of guys that have played consistently with each other outside of the off-season. The experience lost with Sam's departure is not really accounted for.

The bigs definitely have experience, but four of our wings + backup PG have not played big-time minutes or at least for a while (Greg and Koby out). I still don't think it's much of an excuse.

Playing together certainly helps. But our team lacks that year over year cohesion, partly by design. Wojo has regularly gone after transfers. That's been a key part of his recruiting strategy. As a result, we've often been in a position where the team may not be as cohesive as a team without transfers.

But college basketball is full of teams that have transfers and younger guys needing to adapt to a new style and new teammates. It's rare to have a 3 Amigos type class where the core of the team is used to playing together for most of their career.

I really viewed the age/experience of our team as an asset this year, but things aren't quite clicking like I had hoped just yet. Maybe some of the older guys will have a moment soon in which they realize this might be there last shot to make some noise in the NCAA, and that lights a fire in their bellies to make a push down the stretch. Fingers crossed!

[Nukem2]

Yep. Lower usage for Markus would be great...if others were hitting their shots. But Markus is shooting constantly because others are getting chances and missing.

As one example, how on earth can Theo be shooting only 45.5% (0-3 Saturday) when he never shoots further than two feet from the hoop?!?

While Theo is a good shot blocker, he does play small offensively especially against taller/longer centers. 

[Dawson Rental]

Pretty much this. There is no clear-cut #2 which is a definite problem. I think it should be Anim because of experience and his skill set. Koby has a lot of physical tools but a low bbiq. Brendan by the end of the year will be a more obvious number 2 I think. We desperately need 1 or 2 guys that can create their own shot and drive well. McEwen must prove he can finish around the rim.

Oh, the second best offensive player is what everyone means.