Pro-Jos V. No-Jos

[WhoaJoe2020]

Ahh...no. That's not what that implies at all.

He was against Wojo from the beginning, do the math.

His thoughts never changed one iota. despite improved results year over year.
Self admitted inflexibility of thought on Wojo despite observable positive changes in level of success.

Conclusion, he didn't like Wojo from the start and nothing is going to change his mind.

[WhoaJoe2020]

Not me Goose....I even sent the guy a PM a few days ago asking who he is, no response yet.  I'm guessing someone yanking all your chains.

How do I access your PM?

[Silent Verbal]

He was against Wojo from the beginning, do the math.

His thoughts never changed one iota. despite improved results year over year.
Self admitted inflexibility of thought on Wojo despite observable positive changes in level of success.

Conclusion, he didn't like Wojo from the start and nothing is going to change his mind.

More disappointing than yesterday's loss for you was the fact that no one on here freaked out about it and called for Wojo to be fired.  Sure, some people criticized his coaching decisions and his boneheaded press conference, but that's going to happen when you lose at home to a team you absolutely needed to beat.  In fact, things were so tame that you had to make up some awful fiction about how "if we'd squeaked by against Providence people would still be complaining and calling for Wojo to be fired."  Just the facts, ma'am.  No awful fiction like that, please.

And now you're calling out a poster who you say has a bias against Wojo.  This poster has consistently said that Wojo is in over his head and won't take Marquette to the next level.  Well, Joe, he kind of has a point.  I mean, Wojo hasn't really taken us to the next level, has he?

[Herman Cain]

My thoughts on Woj haven't changed one iota in 5 years whether I post after every win or loss. Simply put, he's out of his league both in game and personnel management. Furthermore, highly doubtful he improves enough, in year 6 or year 60, to compete on this level.

I agree with this analysis

[MikeDeanesDarkGlasses]

I agree with this analysis

I further concur.  I'm quite baffled as to why he was offered an extension.

[WhoaJoe2020]

Not me Goose....I even sent the guy a PM a few days ago asking who he is, no response yet.  I'm guessing someone yanking all your chains.

Yeah you got me. I already explained why I started posting but people's reading comprehension must be lacking.

I admit I did start a few magnet threads with purposefully worded titles to  draw the Wojo and other fights away from the recruiting thread, but my intentions were noble. For proof go visit the recruiting thread. It is much cleaner now.  I also hedged my strategy by frequenting other threads and stirring a little. I have also tried to maintain a fairly neutral position on Wojo. Only a person with an extreme bias would interpret it as sycophantic. Oddly enough, being neutral is enough to draw the Wojo haters.

By the way......There's a good article about Karim Mane in the recruiting thread. People should read it. Signing off now.

[Cheeks]

How do I access your PM?

Looks like you found it...thanks for the response.  All good.  Welcome aboard Scoop.

[jesmu84]

More disappointing than yesterday's loss for you was the fact that no one on here freaked out about it and called for Wojo to be fired.  Sure, some people criticized his coaching decisions and his boneheaded press conference, but that's going to happen when you lose at home to a team you absolutely needed to beat.  In fact, things were so tame that you had to make up some awful fiction about how "if we'd squeaked by against Providence people would still be complaining and calling for Wojo to be fired."  Just the facts, ma'am.  No awful fiction like that, please.

And now you're calling out a poster who you say has a bias against Wojo.  This poster has consistently said that Wojo is in over his head and won't take Marquette to the next level.  Well, Joe, he kind of has a point.  I mean, Wojo hasn't really taken us to the next level, has he?

https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=59669.msg1190561#msg1190561

[Silent Verbal]

https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=59669.msg1190561#msg1190561

So one hyperbolic poster called for the coach's firing after a bad loss on an anonymous internet message board?  Yawn.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

So one hyperbolic poster called for the coach's firing after a bad loss on an anonymous internet message board?  Yawn.

Actually wasn't even that—just said you deserve it if it happens.  Because he has been vocal before it is taken as calling for his head. 

[Galway Eagle]

Dear lord man, get a GD life. Honestly. This incessant crap is major board pollution

Yeah this board was so on topic and we all got along before him.

[WhoaJoe2020]

Actually wasn't even that—just said you deserve it if it happens.  Because he has been vocal before it is taken as calling for his head.

Yeah, I've seen the board much worse after losses. There are and were generalities and absolutes being thrown around suggesting Wojo can't coach AT ALL,  he will NEVER improve, that the program hasn't improved AT AlL, he CAN'T win the big games, that besides Markus the team is full of MID-MAJOR talent, that Koby is NO good, that Theo is NO good , and of course the obligatory doom and gloom threads after a loss. But yeah, overall the board has been quite restrained. I'm so proud of us.

[Silent Verbal]

Yeah, I've seen the board much worse after losses. There are and were generalities and absolutes being thrown around suggesting he can't coach AT ALL, he will NEVER improve, that the program hasn't improved AT AlL, he CAN'T win the big games, that besides Markus the team is full of MID-MAJOR talent, that Koby is NO good, that Theo is NO good , and of course the obligatory doom and gloom threads after a loss. But yeah, overall the board has been quite restrained. I'm so proud of us.

There are several times where I've seen Chico get angry at people for using absolutes.  I think he even capitalizes the absolutes when he's complaining about them.  It's funny that you would complain about the same thing in the same writing style.

[WhoaJoe2020]

Actually wasn't even that—just said you deserve it if it happens.  Because he has been vocal before it is taken as calling for his head.

Yeah, some might interpret it that way.
Just like some might interpret the constant criticism, win or lose, as a call for him to be replaced.

People don't always come right out and say eff you. Theyre often passive aggressive, using more socially acceptable phrases that ultimately convey the same message.

People are entitled to their opinion that Wojo should be fired.
There's no reason for people to pretend that they don't want him gone.
They should make their case with FACTS that support their position.

Just understand that those who think he shouldn't be fired are entitled to their opinion as well and will challenge that position with FACTS of their own.

Based on the FACTS that Wojo has had a fairly consistent upward trend in wins and losses, and in post season appearances, and has recruited some exciting and talented players over his tenure, I support the position of Wojo remaining head coach for at least one more year. 

Notice I'm not calling for a ten year extension or his enshrinement into the college coaching hall of fame.

[Silkk the Shaka]

There are several times where I've seen Chico get angry at people for using absolutes.  I think he even capitalizes the absolutes when he's complaining about them.  It's funny that you would complain about the same thing in the same writing style.

LOL it's identical

[MikeDeanesDarkGlasses]

Yeah, some might interpret it that way.
Just like some might interpret the constant criticism, win or lose, as a call for him to be replaced.

People don't always come right out and say eff you. Theyre often passive aggressive, using more socially acceptable phrases that ultimately convey the same message.


They should make their case with FACTS that support their position.

The facts have been given.  Largely, the Pro Wojers cite trendy Kenpom stats.  Yet, when it comes to fundamentals that one can only see through the eye, they cower back into their holes.  In other words, they don't know how to identify the proper weaknesses when evaluating a coach.  A Pro Wojer doesn't understand how the talent on the court, the way they play together, the coaching calls, rhythm, spacing, reactions, etc all weave together to form a complete picture.   

[WhoaJoe2020]

There are several times where I've seen Chico get angry at people for using absolutes.  I think he even capitalizes the absolutes when he's complaining about them.  It's funny that you would complain about the same thing in the same writing style.

What's really funny,( actually ironic ), is that Cheeks was one of the people annoying me in the recruiting thread that triggered me to join the board, and now I'm being accused of being him.

To be sure MDDG and his or her incessantly, and excessively negative comments and threads, as well as his or her minions parroting his or her talking points, was a prime motivating factor also.

So actually, you have both of them to thank for my invaluable insight and analysis.

[MikeDeanesDarkGlasses]

What's really funny,( actually ironic ), is that Cheeks was one of the people annoying me in the recruiting thread that triggered me to join the board, and now I'm being accused of being him.

To be sure MDDG and his or her incessantly, and excessively negative comments and threads, as well as his or her minions parroting his or her talking points, was a prime motivating factor also.

So actually, you have both of them to thank for my invaluable insight and analysis.

After joining the Pro Woj club, did you get your customary Kenpom Tramp Stamp?

[WhoaJoe2020]

The facts have been given.  Largely, the Pro Wojers cite trendy Kenpom stats.  Yet, when it comes to fundamentals that one can only see through the eye, they cower back into their holes.  In other words, they don't know how to identify the proper weaknesses when evaluating a coach.  A Pro Wojer doesn't understand how the talent on the court, the way they play together, the coaching calls, rhythm, spacing, reactions, etc all weave together to form a complete picture.

Ohhhh...... Now I understand.

Ignore everything but MDDGs and others unfailing judgement on all things
related to coaching college basketball.

I swear everything you say just serves to help Wojos cause.

Are you secretly an extreme ProJo using reverse psychology?

Are you secretly Wojo?

[Cheeks]

LOL it's identical

Nope....you are just wrong as is so often the case.  He's either yanking your chain or just his way, I suspect a bit of both.

Moderators...please feel free to jump in here.   100% absolute stone cold lock he isn't me, but I do cherish how often some of you believe this the vacancy filled in your craniums at the thought of it brings a tear to me.

[Cheeks]

The facts have been given.  Largely, the Pro Wojers cite trendy Kenpom stats.  Yet, when it comes to fundamentals that one can only see through the eye, they cower back into their holes.  In other words, they don't know how to identify the proper weaknesses when evaluating a coach.  A Pro Wojer doesn't understand how the talent on the court, the way they play together, the coaching calls, rhythm, spacing, reactions, etc all weave together to form a complete picture.

Translation:   We don't need that fancy math learning stuff round here.  My gut and eye tell me all I need to know.

[Cheeks]

What's really funny,( actually ironic ), is that Cheeks was one of the people annoying me in the recruiting thread that triggered me to join the board, and now I'm being accused of being him.

To be sure MDDG and his or her incessantly, and excessively negative comments and threads, as well as his or her minions parroting his or her talking points, was a prime motivating factor also.

So actually, you have both of them to thank for my invaluable insight and analysis.

Sorry I annoyed you....you aren't the first, nor the last.   There are plenty of others here that fill the role nicely, too. 

[WhoaJoe2020]

Sorry I annoyed you....you aren't the first, nor the last.   There are plenty of others here that fill the role nicely, too.

Just to be clear, it wasn't what you were saying , it was where you were saying it.

You made a fairly innocuous  comment about some college recruits caring more about money and the NBA than winning and were attacked for it.  While your comment was related to recruiting in general and could be construed to apply to Marquette it didn't focus on current recruits or potential targets. I thought it was harmless and ignored it but others chose to go to war over it and you engaged them. I am not the recruiting thread police so feel free to ignore my complaints. I'm just not as savvy or connected as some scoopers and really count on the recruiting thread for information I can't find on my own. I am also easily frustrated by what I consider unnecessary clutter in the thread. That's on me.

[willie warrior]

https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=59669.msg1190561#msg1190561

Nobody called for his firing because it is more of the same. The people who have already seen the handwriting on the wall realize that the camps are already settled and it is going to continue in the same manner. MU will continue to perform at a mediocre level and the Wojo lovers will continue to offer excuses while wishing for a glimmer of hope. I love to hear that after almost 6 years we still see posts that "we are continuing to trend upward" or "we continue to see improvement" or "we need to see what Wojo does with next years class" and so on and so forth. These are all platitudes that are hog wash, after almost 6 years. I sure hope that Wojo makes the dance and wins a game in 2023.

[WhoaJoe2020]

Nobody called for his firing because it is more of the same. The people who have already seen the handwriting on the wall realize that the camps are already settled and it is going to continue in the same manner. MU will continue to perform at a mediocre level and the Wojo lovers will continue to offer excuses while wishing for a glimmer of hope. I love to hear that after almost 6 years we still see posts that "we are continuing to trend upward" or "we continue to see improvement" or "we need to see what Wojo does with next years class" and so on and so forth. These are all platitudes that are hog wash, after almost 6 years. I sure hope that Wojo makes the dance and wins a game in 2023.

So say you.

The real FACTS are that Wojo HAS trended positive as evidenced by year over year success in recruiting, as well as regular season performance and tourney appearances. No amount of bloviating by extreme NoJos is going to change those FACTS.

The team seems to be getting longer and more athletic and next years class will further establish that trend.

For a first time head coach starting basically from scratch, in maybe the toughest conference in college basketball, I believe he has acquitted himself quite well.