Skipping the big game

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Norby, Markus has a scholarship for the 2019-20 academic year. If he quit the team  tomorrow, the school could drop the scholarship. C'mon bub

Of course.  But the remedies are part of the contract itself.  If Markus left tomorrow, he would get no GIA for the second semester.  If he left February 15, he would have to reimburse the GIA that Marquette provided for second semester - if MU chose to enforce the remedies.

[Jay Bee]

Of course.  But the remedies are part of the contract itself.  If Markus left tomorrow, he would get no GIA for the second semester.  If he left February 15, he would have to reimburse the GIA that Marquette provided for second semester - if MU chose to enforce the remedies.

No. Not all remedies are in the GIAs, which are not standardized among all schools.

At any rate, I don't think a Feb-15-so-reimburse-us scenario would ever play out because the SAs have the power (PR)... and not sure that's in many GIAs. However, if he did leave Feb 15 the aid could be removed immediately. That would be the remedy for the school.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Agreed.

I thought the GIA had boilerplate language, but it can be customized in some ways as well?

[rocket surgeon]

"Again, Jim Chones left a Marquette team in the middle of a season -- one that many thought would have resulted in a national title had he stayed. His coach, Al McGuire, strongly backed the move; indeed, McGuire insisted on it. Why? Because McGuire wanted Chones to take care of his financial future."

  MU- this was an extraordinary show of Al's concern for his guys well-being first.  His humanity and unselfishness.  If I remember correctly, Al gave his blessing before the news came out and thus the green light for jimmy. plus it was jimmys family (the state of their home, etc)whom Al saw as the real impetus and proactive gesture

  Not sure any of these other coaches have been this out in front about their stars ending their seasons early for their health $ we'll being. Some of these families of their stars had already been cough-cough, ahem, been doing alright for themselves as opposed to jimmys.

[Cheeks]

"Again, Jim Chones left a Marquette team in the middle of a season -- one that many thought would have resulted in a national title had he stayed. His coach, Al McGuire, strongly backed the move; indeed, McGuire insisted on it. Why? Because McGuire wanted Chones to take care of his financial future."

  MU- this was an extraordinary show of Al's concern for his guys well-being first.  His humanity and unselfishness.  If I remember correctly, Al gave his blessing before the news came out and thus the green light for jimmy. plus it was jimmys family (the state of their home, etc)whom Al saw as the real impetus and proactive gesture

  Not sure any of these other coaches have been this out in front about their stars ending their seasons early for their health $ we'll being. Some of these families of their stars had already been cough-cough, ahem, been doing alright for themselves as opposed to jimmys.

Yup

As Jim told me, his circumstances were also severe and not the same as the vast majority of these other pursuits.  Jim's dad had died, the family was already impoverished.  Things were so bad he couldn't wait four months for the NBA draft.   This was a day to day survival situation which is rare and not typically that extreme in these other cases.

Al was pushing this long before it hit the press because of Jim's situation.

[Pakuni]

Who said "barred"? An SA *can* do a lot of things. The question is whether there is a related remedy.

The NCAA Bylaws provide a remedy for an institution when an SA chooses to stop playing.

It also provides a remedy if an SA is convicted of murder.

Right. Not only does the contract not state it's a violation for an athlete to voluntarily stop playing, but it envisions that exact thing happening and lays out what could happen if it does. I emphasize "could" because it's worth noting that the contract says an athlete's aid "may be immediately reduced or cancelled." Not "will be" or "must be," but "may be." That's noteworthy because it belies the arguments of some here that seem to believe the NCAA ought to, and would be on solid footing to, recover aid already provided. Even the NCAA in its own contract suggests no such thing.

I don't think anyone here has ever said it would be wrong or unreasonable for a school to stop providing aid when an athlete chooses to stop playing.

As for murder, I've never seen that mentioned in a scholarship agreement, but I'll take your word for it.

[Cheeks]

Which is why if this becomes more and more a thing, the schools should tighten up this language.  JB brings up an excellent point, however, in that the media and PR backlash will of course be massively on one side.  The SA will simply claim he is hurt, can't participate in said games, so why are you penalizing the kid by revoking part of the scholarship....yada yada yada.

[Pakuni]

Which is why if this becomes more and more a thing, the schools should tighten up this language.  JB brings up an excellent point, however, in that the media and PR backlash will of course be massively on one side.  The SA will simply claim he is hurt, can't participate in said games, so why are you penalizing the kid by revoking part of the scholarship....yada yada yada.

Nah.
When these kids stop playing, it's because they're leaving school to focus on preparing for the draft. It's not Nick Bosa and Leonard Fournette attended classes second semester on their respective schools' dime. I've yet to see a  case in which an athlete stopped playing games, but demanded that the school continue, against its wishes, to provide free education, room, board, etc.
Am I missing any?

[MU82]

"Again, Jim Chones left a Marquette team in the middle of a season -- one that many thought would have resulted in a national title had he stayed. His coach, Al McGuire, strongly backed the move; indeed, McGuire insisted on it. Why? Because McGuire wanted Chones to take care of his financial future."

  MU- this was an extraordinary show of Al's concern for his guys well-being first.  His humanity and unselfishness.  If I remember correctly, Al gave his blessing before the news came out and thus the green light for jimmy. plus it was jimmys family (the state of their home, etc)whom Al saw as the real impetus and proactive gesture

  Not sure any of these other coaches have been this out in front about their stars ending their seasons early for their health $ we'll being. Some of these families of their stars had already been cough-cough, ahem, been doing alright for themselves as opposed to jimmys.

rocket: Al was right, IMHO, as was Chones. Many of us love Al (and/or the memory of Al), so we are totally onboard with what happened back then. Indeed, many Scoopers romanticize that situation, all part of the Saint Al narrative (which is cool).

But think about it -- this was a college athlete leaving a championship-level team just a couple weeks before the start of the NCAA tournament. The team was 21-0 when he left ... but lost its very next game and limped to a 3-4 finish that included a second-round NCAA-tournament loss.

Had there been a Scoop back then, how would most Scoopers have responded?

As for the bowl-skippers, IMHO the financial status of the athlete should have nothing to do with how "right" they are. McCaffrey's family obviously had money; so it's OK for a poor kid to protect his professional and financial future but not McCaffrey? That doesn't seem fair.

It's OK for Chones to bail on a championship-level team but not for Fournette to skip a bowl game that has absolutely no bearing on anything tangible?

Obviously, I believe McCaffrey and Fournette were "right" doing what they did. The many athletes who are skipping bowl games this year are "right." The many who choose to play in bowl games also are "right." I also don't begrudge the coaches who bolt from their contracts and skip bowl games to improve their financial and professional futures; that's just the way things work.

Skipping a non-playoff bowl game to secure one's financial future seems like a no-brainer to me. Ed McCaffrey, a longtime NFL player, advised his son to do it. I would have done the same had my son been in a similar position.

That said, for those who want to play in those games, I support their choices, too.

[Cheeks]

Nah.
When these kids stop playing, it's because they're leaving school to focus on preparing for the draft. It's not Nick Bosa and Leonard Fournette attended classes second semester on their respective schools' dime. I've yet to see a  case in which an athlete stopped playing games, but demanded that the school continue, against its wishes, to provide free education, room, board, etc.
Am I missing any?

It depends on the situation, there are some kids that still go on and get that degree to graduate in May or June while others do not as you exemplified.

[Jay Bee]

Nah.
When these kids stop playing, it's because they're leaving school to focus on preparing for the draft. It's not Nick Bosa and Leonard Fournette attended classes second semester on their respective schools' dime. I've yet to see a  case in which an athlete stopped playing games, but demanded that the school continue, against its wishes, to provide free education, room, board, etc.
Am I missing any?

You wouldn't hear about it because the school's hands are tied by crazies in the public, like you and the mass media.

Remember what Will Grier did? Shameful

[Pakuni]

Remember what Will Grier did? Shameful

You mean when he skipped the Camping World Bowl on the recommendation of his head coach? Disgusting!

[Jay Bee]

You mean when he skipped the Camping World Bowl on the recommendation of his head coach? Disgusting!

You probably believe that. Sad!

No, when he played in the senior bowl after quitting on his team.

[Pakuni]

You probably believe what. Sad!

No, when he played in the senior bowl after quitting on his team.

Gross!

[rocket surgeon]

rocket: Al was right, IMHO, as was Chones. Many of us love Al (and/or the memory of Al), so we are totally onboard with what happened back then. Indeed, many Scoopers romanticize that situation, all part of the Saint Al narrative (which is cool).

But think about it -- this was a college athlete leaving a championship-level team just a couple weeks before the start of the NCAA tournament. The team was 21-0 when he left ... but lost its very next game and limped to a 3-4 finish that included a second-round NCAA-tournament loss.

Had there been a Scoop back then, how would most Scoopers have responded?

As for the bowl-skippers, IMHO the financial status of the athlete should have nothing to do with how "right" they are. McCaffrey's family obviously had money; so it's OK for a poor kid to protect his professional and financial future but not McCaffrey? That doesn't seem fair.

It's OK for Chones to bail on a championship-level team but not for Fournette to skip a bowl game that has absolutely no bearing on anything tangible?

Obviously, I believe McCaffrey and Fournette were "right" doing what they did. The many athletes who are skipping bowl games this year are "right." The many who choose to play in bowl games also are "right." I also don't begrudge the coaches who bolt from their contracts and skip bowl games to improve their financial and professional futures; that's just the way things work.

Skipping a non-playoff bowl game to secure one's financial future seems like a no-brainer to me. Ed McCaffrey, a longtime NFL player, advised his son to do it. I would have done the same had my son been in a similar position.

That said, for those who want to play in those games, I support their choices, too.

Can't disagree with anything here 82, each have an investment in themselves that they should want to protect.

I've got to believe in jimmys situation, the players knew what was coming.  The others?  I don't know, but if they didn't, I've got to think there is/was some animosity to win that next "big" game. Many of them had that as a goal and the player that got them there just went poof

I'm just throwing different scenarios out there that might come into play.  Not saying if they are right or wrong.  Not for me to decide. 

[MU82]

Can't disagree with anything here 82, each have an investment in themselves that they should want to protect.

I've got to believe in jimmys situation, the players knew what was coming.  The others?  I don't know, but if they didn't, I've got to think there is/was some animosity to win that next "big" game. Many of them had that as a goal and the player that got them there just went poof

I'm just throwing different scenarios out there that might come into play.  Not saying if they are right or wrong.  Not for me to decide.

Fair enough, rocket.

The only quotes I've ever seen about these kids who skip bowl games have been supportive, but people say all kinds of things in public they might not believe.

Like coaches and dentists and sportswriters and folks of any walk in life, there is a "fraternity" of athletes. In general, they tend to support each other's pursuit of better lives.

[4everwarriors]

Nah, eye've herd dentists hate each udder's guts, hey?

[Jockey]

You wouldn't hear about it because the school's hands are tied by crazies in the public, like you and the mass media.

Remember what Will Grier did? Shameful

another fool denigrating the mass media.

Wonder where he got that idea from. 

[Cheeks]

another fool denigrating the mass media.

Wonder where he got that idea from.

Well considering Gallup polls showing less than 50% trust in the media goes back to 2003....yes, please tell us since your theory since the one you just tied to push was false.  Feel free to look it up on google.

Happy New Year

[Pakuni]

Well considering Gallup polls showing less than 50% trust in the media goes back to 2003....yes, please tell us since your theory since the one you just tied to push was false.  Feel free to look it up on google.

Happy New Year

A deeper dive into those polls tells a very different story.
Happy New Year 

[mu03eng]

Haven't read the whole thread but I'd point out that those against compensation for NIL are also the ones against players skipping bowl games....ironically allowing the former likely prevents the latter

[Cheeks]

A deeper dive into those polls tells a very different story.
Happy New Year

Not really, but I get the reflex you have to always defend the water carriers.

[4everwarriors]

Man, wee gots lotsa fools on dis board accordin' ta Brandy (know doxin' intended). Of course, opinions are like ass holes, aina?

[Cheeks]

Haven't read the whole thread but I'd point out that those against compensation for NIL are also the ones against players skipping bowl games....ironically allowing the former likely prevents the latter

These guys are going to play in a game with their argument that they protecting millions in future revenues for a much smaller amount from NIL?   

[Pakuni]

Not really, but I get the reflex you have to always defend the water carriers.

Ignorance is bliss.