Joey applied for waiver

[Marcus92]

Dameon Mason transferred after playing 30 mpg as a sophomore. Perhaps he feared losing playing time to the three amigos coming in the following year.

There are a couple reasons why Odartey comes to mind for me:

• Like Sam and Joey playing alongside Markus, Odartey played a secondary (though vital) role on a team with a clear superstar.

• Like this year's team (which finished 24-10, 2nd in the Big East behind conference powerhouse Villanova) Marquette was coming off its best season in years (26-7 in 2001-02, 2nd in CUSA behind conference powerhouse Cincinnati), returned most of the roster and was projected to be even better the next year.

Dameon Mason played on two teams that missed the NCAA tournament -- and wasn't nearly as good of a player as either Sam or Joey, in my opinion.

[Marcus92]

Also, like this year's Marquette team, the 2001-02 squad lost as a strong favorite in the first round of the NCAA tournament, falling to 12 seed Tulsa.

[Uncle Rico]

Also, like this year's Marquette team, the 2001-02 squad lost as a strong favorite in the first round of the NCAA tournament, falling to 12 seed Tulsa.

That's when I knew we needed to fire Crean and hire Bruce Weber

[Lennys Tap]

MU *may* have been even better in 02-03 with ODB on the roster but maybe not. Team chemistry was huge on that team. Todd Townsend was an excellent piece at the three to complement the starters.

ODB was a really good player. Todd was a really good guy. They were not remotely close as players.

[The Sultan]

ODB was a really good player. Todd was a really good guy. They were not remotely close as players.

I don't think that's what he is saying.  He is saying that Townsend knew his role while ODB yearned for a larger one.  This may have caused chemistry problems that could have derailed the team that eventually got to the Final Four.  He even hedged his bets.

[MU82]

ODB was a really good player. Todd was a really good guy. They were not remotely close as players.

Lenny, sometimes the sum is equal to more than the parts. Townsend that year was kind of like what Lockett became in 2012-13. Unless you are a blueblood that regularly signs a half-dozen 5-stars and high-4-stars, you need "glue" guys like that. Townsend was a nice complementary player to a lineup that included Wade, Diener, Jackson and Merritt, with Novak off the bench. He set screens, played D, grabbed rebounds, etc.

There is absolutely no doubt that ODB was a far better player. But maybe he wouldn't have been a better fit for that 2002-03 team because, apparently, he wanted the ball more and the chemistry would have been all messed up.

We'll never know, of course, but I'm satisfied with how that season turned out sans ODB.

[Lennys Tap]

I don't think that's what he is saying.  He is saying that Townsend knew his role while ODB yearned for a larger one.  This may have caused chemistry problems that could have derailed the team that eventually got to the Final Four.  He even hedged his bets.

Meh. Townsend was OK in 2002-3 for one reason - nobody guarded him. Once DWade left he didn't have that luxury. Results? 22.6% from 3 in 03-04, 23.0% in 04-05, very bad efg% both years. 4ppg, 2 rpg, 1 apg career averages - if he was a baseball player he'd have a negative WAR for his career. Loved his story, loved the guy - but he was bad at basketball. ODB wasn't a problem guy on the court the 2 years he was here. IIRC, he going to be the captain his junior year before he transferred.

ODB was a better player by a huge margin. He would have made the 2002-3 team much better.

[The Sultan]

Meh. Townsend was OK in 2002-3 for one reason - nobody guarded him. Once DWade left he didn't have that luxury. Results? 22.6% from 3 in 03-04, 23.0% in 04-05, very bad efg% both years. 4ppg, 2 rpg, 1 apg career averages - if he was a baseball player he'd have a negative WAR for his career. Loved his story, loved the guy - but he was bad at basketball. ODB wasn't a problem guy on the court the 2 years he was here. IIRC, he going to be the captain his junior year before he transferred.

ODB was a better player by a huge margin. He would have made the 2002-3 team much better.

"Much better" than a Final Four team?

Doubtful.

Regardless no one is debating that ODB wasn't a better player. So simply reciting stats is useless.

[Jay Bee]

"Much better" than a Final Four team?

#crapshoot

[Lennys Tap]

"Much better" than a Final Four team?

Doubtful.

Regardless no one is debating that ODB wasn't a better player. So simply reciting stats is useless.

Much better.

Stats aren't useless.

Dumb people? Maybe.

[The Sultan]

Much better.

Stats aren't useless.

Dumb people? Maybe.

I didn't say stats are useless. I said stats are useless for this debate because no one doubts that he is better. The question is better fit.

Dumb people...well, person...indeed.

[Lennys Tap]

Dumb people...well, person...indeed.

Good catch...you are but one person.

[The Sultan]

Good catch...you are but one person.

Oooo. A fifth grade level insult? Ignoring my post in the process?

Flying the white flag and begging for mercy I see.

[Lennys Tap]

Oooo. A fifth grade level insult? Ignoring my post in the process?

It's what a 2nd grade insult deserves.

And what an ignorant post deserves.

Deal with it.

Pretty good imitation of a Sultan post, a'ina?

[The Sultan]

It's what a 2nd grade insult deserves.

And what an ignorant post deserves.

Deal with it.

Pretty good imitation of a Sultan post, a'ina?

First you obsess over me and now you imitate my posts?  I'm flattered!!

[Lennys Tap]

First you obsess over me and now you imitate my posts?  I'm flattered!!

The last thing I am is obsessed with you. When called me a mope who yells "get off of my lawn" at people (obsess much?) I laughed at you and poked a little fun at myself (something you're incapable of).

So don't flatter yourself that I think of you as anything but a minor annoyance. Plenty of people here actively and profoundly can't stand you but you're not that important to me.

[The Sultan]

The last thing I am is obsessed with you. When called me a mope who yells "get off of my lawn" at people (obsess much?) I laughed at you and poked a little fun at myself (something you're incapable of).

So don't flatter yourself that I think of you as anything but a minor annoyance. Plenty of people here actively and profoundly can't stand you but you're not that important to me.

Bwahahaha!!  Suuuureeee...

[Cheeks]

Also, like this year's Marquette team, the 2001-02 squad lost as a strong favorite in the first round of the NCAA tournament, falling to 12 seed Tulsa.

5 seeds aren't typically strong favorites over 12's.  Favorites, yes, but not strong favorites.  MU was a 4.5 point favorite.

[Marcus92]

The point was that Marquette got upset as a 5 seed in both the 2002 and 2019 NCAA tournaments.

Historically, 5 seeds win more than 65% of their first-round NCAA games. "Strong" is a subjective term, but I get what you're saying. It's not like MU was favored by double digits.

[Dr. Blackheart]

The point was that Marquette got upset as a 5 seed in both the 2002 and 2019 NCAA tournaments.

Historically, 5 seeds win more than 65% of their first-round NCAA games. "Strong" is a subjective term, but I get what you're saying. It's not like MU was favored by double digits.

So, crapshoots = choke jobs.  I mean statistically.

[Stretchdeltsig]

Let's not waste any more time talking about "quitters."  Marquette is a better team without them.

[Cheeks]

The point was that Marquette got upset as a 5 seed in both the 2002 and 2019 NCAA tournaments.

Historically, 5 seeds win more than 65% of their first-round NCAA games. "Strong" is a subjective term, but I get what you're saying. It's not like MU was favored by double digits.

I think that is fair.  Personally I hate the 5 vs 12 game because it can mean you are taking on a strong mid major, or a big school that likely has a few very good wins and some bad losses.  I would rather be a 7 seed than a 5 seed.

[Dr. Blackheart]

I think that is fair.  Personally I hate the 5 vs 12 game because it can mean you are taking on a strong mid major, or a big school that likely has a few very good wins and some bad losses.  I would rather be a 7 seed than a 5 seed.

Hello Tom, Jean Felix is on line 1

[MU82]

During the postseasons of our best two runs since Al retired, we came darn close to losing both times as 3-seeds.

[Lennys Tap]

I think that is fair.  Personally I hate the 5 vs 12 game because it can mean you are taking on a strong mid major, or a big school that likely has a few very good wins and some bad losses.  I would rather be a 7 seed than a 5 seed.

Historical records say your preference is incorrect (if advancing to round 2, 3 or beyond the goal).