Airing of Grievences Thread

[brewcity77]

  as fortunate as the nepotism needed to find your way following a couple of failed hobbies that weren't going to pay the bills-uhkay

I'm not the one making his sexism more obvious by trying to obfuscate it, and I'm not the one firing a woman for asking about her work schedule during a holiday week. I'm also not the one that would try to justify that as being the Christian thing to do immediately after the memorial of his resurrection.

But hey, keep trying to deflect your actions on to someone else, you're doing a bang up job so far.

[Mutaman]

Do you think a movie can't be good and racist?

Go watch the movie and then we'll talk. Its on TCM all the time. A good $4.00 investment on Amazon prime. One of the great openings ever  so be ready. (David Lean borrowed it  for Lawrence of Arabia. So did Spielberg for Saving Private Ryan.)

Once the no nothing reactionary crowd latched on to the word "racist" it ceased to have any meaning so its tough to answer your question. You need to go back and reread Keefe's position- he maintains that The Searchers is not only "anti indian' , its also of a very low quality. 

[Mutaman]

Blazing Saddles

#stirthepot

I think calling Blazing Saddles "racist" is like calling Huck Finn racist because Twain uses the "n" word. Triumph of the Will is a much better example but i don't see that on too many top 10 lists. 

[rocket surgeon]

I'm not the one making his sexism more obvious by trying to obfuscate it, and I'm not the one firing a woman for asking about her work schedule during a holiday week. I'm also not the one that would try to justify that as being the Christian thing to do immediately after the memorial of his resurrection.

But hey, keep trying to deflect your actions on to someone else, you're doing a bang up job so far.

pretty weak brew-but thanks for playing

[mu_hilltopper]

St louis "pizza" tastes like ass.

I don't know what ass tastes like, but I'll wager you are correct.

I tried St. Louis pizza once, thinking "pizza is pizza.  it'll be fine."  I had one piece was not to my liking, but ok, .. that second piece, I quit 2 bites in.     It was just gross.

[tower912]

Mel Brooks consulted with Richard Pryor about the racial stuff in Blazing Saddles because Mel was a little uncomfortable.  Pryor is reputed to have said that as long as the racists were morons, it could still be funny.  But that was Richard Pryor in the early 70s.

[#UnleashSean]

All righty, UC. You and I are cool. But ya still gotta be accurate, even in this thread.

I have not been airing grievances in the MLB thread or others for quite some time. Indeed, I have given myself the "couple weeks of a break" that you said some of us needed. I'm trying to be a good boy!

Idk where the thumbs up emoji is soooo **Thumbs up**

[#UnleashSean]

I don't know what ass tastes like,

Gotta give it a try.

[rocket surgeon]

Gotta give it a try.

umm, get a room ?

[Mutaman]

Mel Brooks consulted with Richard Pryor about the racial stuff in Blazing Saddles because Mel was a little uncomfortable.  Pryor is reputed to have said that as long as the racists were morons, it could still be funny.  Bit that was Richard Pryor in the early 70s.

Pryor did more than consult- he wrote part of the script.

"the film was written by Brooks, Andrew Bergman, Richard Pryor, Norman Steinberg and Al Uger, and was based on Bergman's story and draft."

Wiki

[MU82]

Blazing Saddles

#stirthepot

I saw Blazing Saddles when I was a kid and hadn't seen it again. People talked about it so much that I finally sat down and watched it again a couple of years ago.

I was surprised -- no, actually, stunned -- at how unfunny I found it. I think I might have chuckled once or twice.

Compared to Young Frankenstein -- a true Mel Brooks masterpiece, one of the great comedies ever -- and The Producers, Saddles is some mediocre movie-making IMHO.

[Slim]

I saw Blazing Saddles when I was a kid and hadn't seen it again. People talked about it so much that I finally sat down and watched it again a couple of years ago.

I was surprised -- no, actually, stunned -- at how unfunny I found it. I think I might have chuckled once or twice.

Compared to Young Frankenstein -- a true Mel Brooks masterpiece, one of the great comedies ever -- and The Producers, Saddles is some mediocre movie-making IMHO.

My neighbor and I still greet each other with:
" They say you was hung"

[WarriorDad]

Keefe, mutaman, mu82, Cheeks, rocket all need a couple weeks of a break. The stress of summer has been to much.

They all seem to want to out blast each other.

Normally not a good result comes from people slamming others as racist, bigots, liars, malpracticing journalists, among other insults of late.

Usually the response back isn't kind.

A couple of other members here could be added to the timeout list.  Unfortunate as all of them have solid responses and thoughtful insights when they aren't out to kill each other.

[MU82]

They all seem to want to out blast each other.

Normally not a good result comes from people slamming others as racist, bigots, liars, malpracticing journalists, among other insults of late.

Usually the response back isn't kind.

A couple of other members here could be added to the timeout list.  Unfortunate as all of them have solid responses and thoughtful insights when they aren't out to kill each other.

Again ... I'm not taking part in those discussions.

[StillAWarrior]

Huh? I said weeks ago that I would stop interacting with this site's biggest agitator, and I have. I said I would stop contributing to threads getting bogged down with personal vendettas, and I have.

I'm not looking for a gold star or a pat on the back, but I'd rather not get lumped in with some of the others you named. Because I'm not doing it ... not any more than you are, anyway.

As one of the people who you quoted when announcing your decision:  thank you.  It really is appreciated.  If only others would do the same.

[Jon]

Honest question Keefe. IIRC (and I sincerely apologize if I have you mixed up with another poster), you and I were part of conversation awhile back about whether or not Georgetown should change the name of academic buildings because their namesakes had orchestrated a slave auction that benefited the university. If I remember your argument correctly, you said that we shouldn't judge the namesakes for their role in the slave auction because in the context of the time, their actions were morally acceptable. Now we know better but the namesakes themselves couldn't have known because of the times they were raised in.

I'm curious why you took that position in that argument but are taking the stand the Searchers is a racist movie. In this case, I haven't seen the movie, but I trust what you say as most westerns from that era were notoriously horrendous in their depiction of native americans, and I agree with your position. But I'm curious why you are comfortable giving the Georgetown namesakes a pass due to the times that they lived in but not the Searchers a pass for the times that it was created in. I'm also curious what your opinion on our former mascot is. Is there a difference that you see that I am not seeing?

Also, I don't know mutaman personally, but I doubt he's a racist. I haven't been breathing for that long, but I've only met a handful of bonafide racists in my lifetime. But every single person I have met has done, said, or thought racist things, at multiple points in their life. If you say the Searchers is racist, I'm on board. If you say mutaman's defense of the movie is racist, I'm with you. I'm hesitant to label him a racist for it. I don't believe we should be defined solely by our worst actions.

Aggie

I never said that the actions of slave auctioneers in any time or place was or is morally acceptable. Ethics or morality is never relative.

I am against the whitewashing of history. Do we scrub Washington, Jefferson, Madison, Monroe, et al from the story of the United States? They were slave owners, among about a dozen US Presidents, hundreds of senators, and countless others who contributed to the building of what is the world's greatest society.

Pulling down statues and erasing names from the national narrative is intellectual cowardice. Celebrate the good but acknowledge the moral incorrectness of slavery. Learn from the sins of the past. Without the names listed above there is no American story.

As for mutaman, he insists on championing a poorly written story which furthers some of the most vile depictions of Native Americans ever put forth as "art." As many Scoopers know, I have been involved in working with Native communities to bring technology solutions to improve the standard of living in Indian Country. I know tribal leaders and they have an absolute revulsion for the portrayal of Natives in popular culture. And they find The Searchers to be particularly reprehensible.

Here we have a white guy in NYC who has never been to Indian Country, when told that Natives find The Searchers to be deeply offensive, goes on to cite other white guys as proof that the movie is high art.

The question is not the artistic merit but the cultural sensitivity. The fact that mutaman doesn't get that underscores his complete lack of awareness of how minorities feel about how they are cast in the public consciousness.

Is he a racist? While he might not think he is the fact that he openly champions a piece of fiction as having significant artistic merit suggests he is crudely unaware of the feelings of an entire people.

I notice he cites my listing of Triumph of the Will as significant cinema as my somehow being a Nazi. And here he misses the point entirely. Riefenstahl's work is a masterpiece of propaganda and illustrates how powerful cinema can be used as a tool for advancing a flawed belief system.

The difference between Triumph of the Will and The Searchers is that the former demonstrates the power of the new medium while the latter showcases how film could perpetuate ugly stereotypes which demean an entire race.

The fact that mutaman cannot grasp that makes him either stupidly naive or an advocate of what was the systematic destruction of a race. Stripping a people of their dignity, which is what Hollywood film did for decades in their portrayals of Natives, Asians, and blacks, is institutionalized racism.

[Spotcheck Billy]

I may hit an IPA mid session as a palate cleanser. Personally, I am not that much of a fan.

The whole thing started in the PNW which is where the world's best hops are grown. Brewers in Portland and Seattle dumped bushels of hops in the vat. In my opinion they have gone overboard.

The ambers, reds, and browns are far more complex and finish so much more elegantly.

   The "whole thing" started centuries ago when the English shipped beer to the troops in India.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

   The "whole thing" started centuries ago when the English shipped beer to the troops in India.

Maybe this is a bit precise, but the American IPA is thought of as a distinct style which was founded through the craft beer boom.  I won't wade into the city of origin debates but the style is distinct and real. 

[Spotcheck Billy]

Maybe this is a bit precise, but the American IPA is thought of as a distinct style which was founded through the craft beer boom.  I won't wade into the city of origin debates but the style is distinct and real. 

I agree but wasn't sure Jon was aware based on his certainty re: PNW, every beginning brewery appears to find IPAs easier/more forgiving and quicker to brew than any lager. Lakefront being one of the exceptions that has always brewed lagers.

[Mutaman]

Aggie

I never said that the actions of slave auctioneers in any time or place was or is morally acceptable. Ethics or morality is never relative.

I am against the whitewashing of history. Do we scrub Washington, Jefferson, Madison, Monroe, et al from the story of the United States? They were slave owners, among about a dozen US Presidents, hundreds of senators, and countless others who contributed to the building of what is the world's greatest society.

Pulling down statues and erasing names from the national narrative is intellectual cowardice. Celebrate the good but acknowledge the moral incorrectness of slavery. Learn from the sins of the past. Without the names listed above there is no American story.

As for mutaman, he insists on championing a poorly written story which furthers some of the most vile depictions of Native Americans ever put forth as "art." As many Scoopers know, I have been involved in working with Native communities to bring technology solutions to improve the standard of living in Indian Country. I know tribal leaders and they have an absolute revulsion for the portrayal of Natives in popular culture. And they find The Searchers to be particularly reprehensible.

Here we have a white guy in NYC who has never been to Indian Country, when told that Natives find The Searchers to be deeply offensive, goes on to cite other white guys as proof that the movie is high art.

The question is not the artistic merit but the cultural sensitivity. The fact that mutaman doesn't get that underscores his complete lack of awareness of how minorities feel about how they are cast in the public consciousness.

Is he a racist? While he might not think he is the fact that he openly champions a piece of fiction as having significant artistic merit suggests he is crudely unaware of the feelings of an entire people.

I notice he cites my listing of Triumph of the Will as significant cinema as my somehow being a Nazi. And here he misses the point entirely. Riefenstahl's work is a masterpiece of propaganda and illustrates how powerful cinema can be used as a tool for advancing a flawed belief system.

The difference between Triumph of the Will and The Searchers is that the former demonstrates the power of the new medium while the latter showcases how film could perpetuate ugly stereotypes which demean an entire race.

The fact that mutaman cannot grasp that makes him either stupidly naive or an advocate of what was the systematic destruction of a race. Stripping a people of their dignity, which is what Hollywood film did for decades in their portrayals of Natives, Asians, and blacks, is institutionalized racism.

Pretty busy-- does somebody else have the time to google this and see where Keefe plagiarized it from?

[Mutaman]

I notice he cites my listing of Triumph of the Will as significant cinema as my somehow being a Nazi.

Can we have a link to support this claim? Where and when did i ever say that? Anyone who denies that Triumph of the Will is "significant cinema" is a fool, just like anyone who denies that the Searchers is "significant cinema"  is a fool. Anyone who claims that one who supports Triumph of the Will is a "Nazi" is a fool,  just like anyone who claims that one who supports the Searchers  favors "stripping a people of their dignity" (sic) is a fool.

keefe, you have serious emotional problems, you are an egomaniac, you are a plagiarist, and you  clearly have serious problems with women. But I don't think I ever called you a Nazi.

[Lennys Tap]

As one of the people who you quoted when announcing your decision:  thank you.  It really is appreciated.  If only others would do the same.

Warrior - as of this moment I am also going "Chico free" (obviously that also includes Warrior Dad).

[HouWarrior]

Just bought but haven't tried Outsiders Pizza's Detroit Style Genoa Salami (nh) & Wisconsin Brick Cheese. Might get devoured tonight. VERY curious.

Arent you in Minny?

My dad sold Dictaphones (red belt recorders) in the Twin Cities ages ago (early 60s ) and the sales crew met every Friday lunch at a pizza place...on University(?)...Dad always brought home another awesome pizza from there for our dinner.

...anyway the owner tells Dad about this crazy idea his wife had for freezing pizzas and selling them in the grocery store. Dad was at Totinos Italian restaurant....talking to Jim TOTINO about his wife Rose Totino's idea....I remember hearing of that kernel of invention like it was yesterday....so....my question is

....is Totino's still open as a restaurant there?

[Spotcheck Billy]

this Totino's owned by General Mills now?

https://www.totinos.com/

[MU82]

Warrior - as of this moment I am also going "Chico free" (obviously that also includes Warrior Dad).

Congrats, my friend. It's quite liberating.