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Author Topic: Ken Pomeroy ranks all 353 teams since 1997  (Read 3692 times)

Its DJOver

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Re: Ken Pomeroy ranks all 353 teams since 1997
« Reply #25 on: August 09, 2019, 03:21:12 PM »
I wonder how many other schools have a fan saying this. Not everyone can be first

We're all just a bunch of Cal Naughton Jr's in a room with the man, the myth, the legend himself Ricky "Willie" Bobby.

Mr. Sand-Knit

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Re: Ken Pomeroy ranks all 353 teams since 1997
« Reply #26 on: August 09, 2019, 03:25:42 PM »
A couple of general thoughts about how tantalizingly close we are to "being back."

1) Take out the Deane years and the first two Wojo years and... Wow.
2) What separates us from the Top 10-15 teams is consistency. When we're good, we're really very good. When we're bad, well, we're horrid.

What this seems to say more than anything is consistency is everything. That's why I'm pulling for Wojo to have a big year this year -- both on the floor and recruiting. If we get a Top 10 class (and we're on our way to doing so) and go deep in the NCAA tournament, he's going to be the guy. I have no doubt he's as close as we're going to have to a lifer.

Hausergate was a BIG setback in my view. It takes away from the consistency we crave and need and puts pressure on the coach and the remaining guys to play and work outside their skill set. If we recover from this with few bumps and bruises, Coach Wojo will be someone special.

Short answer -- The teams at the top are consistent, in coaching, recruiting prowess and in winning. We can be there, but we have work to do.

Hausers really screwed the program.  We are a shoe in top 10 team next year with a lot of preseason buzz and potentially a national player of the year.   I can only imagine what our recuiting this summer would look like with that national notoriety n buzz over the summer. 
Why i struggle with people saying they wish them the best and hold no ill will.  I hold ill will n surely wont be rooting for them.
Political free board, plz leave your clever quips in your clever mind.

The Lens

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Re: Ken Pomeroy ranks all 353 teams since 1997
« Reply #27 on: August 09, 2019, 03:29:58 PM »
Hausers really screwed the program.  We are a shoe in top 10 team next year with a lot of preseason buzz and potentially a national player of the year.   I can only imagine what our recuiting this summer would look like with that national notoriety n buzz over the summer. 
Why i struggle with people saying they wish them the best and hold no ill will.  I hold ill will n surely wont be rooting for them.

Your honesty is refreshing.  Be careful though, ill will is very cold, you hold it too long and you might get frostbite.
The Teal Train has left the station and Lens is day drinking in the bar car    ---- Dr. Blackheart

LloydsLegs

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Re: Ken Pomeroy ranks all 353 teams since 1997
« Reply #28 on: August 09, 2019, 03:48:49 PM »
5th best Catholic School

#7 Nova
#12 Zags
#25 X
#29 Notre Dame

Around the Big East:

#36 Gtown
#44 Creighton
#47 Butler
#53 Providence
#67 Seton Hall
#75 St. John's
#101 DePaul

(Dayton #79, SLU #93, St. Thomas NR)

well played

Dr. Blackheart

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Re: Ken Pomeroy ranks all 353 teams since 1997
« Reply #29 on: August 09, 2019, 03:57:19 PM »

MU82

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Re: Ken Pomeroy ranks all 353 teams since 1997
« Reply #30 on: August 09, 2019, 04:03:26 PM »
I agree that footnote on Crean is unfair as he did sign him and develop him so he should get credit. The reason I did mention that is that put Crean into the elite...but it was the anomaly to his norm that came after at MU and IU...which is very seasaw’ish versus Wojo who is on a slow burn up—but with similar comps to this point.

On the Wojo hot-seat issue, a four seed and a top 1-3 BE finish with a NCAA run, he is good to go. This team is built very differently than his past teams...more like a Buzz balanced team on both sides of the ball.

Good points.

Crean did get Zeller and Oladipo to Indiana, too. They, and Yogi Ferrell, were on the team that got crushed by Cuse the same day we crushed Miami to reach the Elite 8 in DC.  He recruited a lot of pretty darn good players but has only the one truly great season in 19 years to show for it. So you certainly have a point about his overall body of work.
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Galway Eagle

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Re: Ken Pomeroy ranks all 353 teams since 1997
« Reply #31 on: August 09, 2019, 04:16:44 PM »
Good points.

Crean did get Zeller and Oladipo to Indiana, too. They, and Yogi Ferrell, were on the team that got crushed by Cuse the same day we crushed Miami to reach the Elite 8 in DC.  He recruited a lot of pretty darn good players but has only the one truly great season in 19 years to show for it. So you certainly have a point about his overall body of work.

29-7, win B1G, sweet 16 seems like a  great season to me. I still think crean threw that game against Cuse to avoid embarrassingly losing to his former school
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Fluffy Blue Monster

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Re: Ken Pomeroy ranks all 353 teams since 1997
« Reply #32 on: August 09, 2019, 04:23:58 PM »
29-7, win B1G, sweet 16 seems like a  great season to me. I still think crean threw that game against Cuse to avoid embarrassingly losing to his former school

With that recruiting class?  It was a disappointment.
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Dr. Blackheart

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Re: Ken Pomeroy ranks all 353 teams since 1997
« Reply #33 on: August 09, 2019, 04:31:57 PM »
Good points.

Crean did get Zeller and Oladipo to Indiana, too. They, and Yogi Ferrell, were on the team that got crushed by Cuse the same day we crushed Miami to reach the Elite 8 in DC.  He recruited a lot of pretty darn good players but has only the one truly great season in 19 years to show for it. So you certainly have a point about his overall body of work.

His IU teams were also good to great offensively and mediocre to poor defensively just like at MU. Same pattern. Good D on a poor offensive night can win you a crapshoot.  CTC has earned his nickname "The Turtle". 

MU82

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Re: Ken Pomeroy ranks all 353 teams since 1997
« Reply #34 on: August 09, 2019, 04:43:49 PM »
29-7, win B1G, sweet 16 seems like a  great season to me. I still think crean threw that game against Cuse to avoid embarrassingly losing to his former school

I guess it depends on how you define "great." Granted, I'd be happy with that season in a vacuum, but given the talent, and given that was his very best season in a decade there, I can see why HoosierLand might have not been as generous as you.
"Philanthropy is commendable, but it must not cause the philanthropist to overlook the circumstances of economic injustice which make philanthropy necessary."

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Galway Eagle

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Re: Ken Pomeroy ranks all 353 teams since 1997
« Reply #35 on: August 09, 2019, 07:49:33 PM »
I guess it depends on how you define "great." Granted, I'd be happy with that season in a vacuum, but given the talent, and given that was his very best season in a decade there, I can see why HoosierLand might have not been as generous as you.

Fair enough. It does seem like they still have a similar mindset as the UCLA fans that believe wins are their god given right.
“More the knowledge, lesser the ego. Lesser the knowledge, more the ego.” Albert Einstein a note for some posters

Cheeks

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Re: Ken Pomeroy ranks all 353 teams since 1997
« Reply #36 on: August 09, 2019, 09:29:32 PM »
Not bad considering the last Deane team, first two cream seasons, and first Wojo season are in that time frame.

Take even the first three of those four out and I bet we just up big time

And the last Buzz team
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Cheeks

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Re: Ken Pomeroy ranks all 353 teams since 1997
« Reply #37 on: August 09, 2019, 09:31:57 PM »
First, great that KPom added more years to his sample.

Second, if 33 is the MU benchmark, let’s look at this by coach as to how many of their teams beat that.

Wojo’s: One beat (32 two years ago) and one meet (last season) in five seasons—40%
Buzz: Five beats in six years—83%
Crean: Three beats in nine years—33%
Deane: No beats in three measured years—A big donut

Buzz had the most offensively and defensively balanced teams. Wojo and Crean skew(ed) more offensive, and Deane to the defense. This tells me that Wojo = Crean so far with Wade being the difference. Crean was more up and down for sure, while Wojo is trending more slowly up. You can see why fans are waiting for his breakthrough, though. This is a big year for Wojo.

Buzz walked into a great situation that first year and then crapped on it in the last year.  Yes, he was a very good coach in between that couldn’t keep his guys (players and coaches) within the swim lanes required, but that first year Lenny could have guided that team to the tournament.
”Bob Knight said never to coach brothers, and never coach twins....they will make you crazy.  When one is sad, the other is sad.”

Cheeks

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Re: Ken Pomeroy ranks all 353 teams since 1997
« Reply #38 on: August 09, 2019, 09:34:03 PM »
Good points.

Crean did get Zeller and Oladipo to Indiana, too. They, and Yogi Ferrell, were on the team that got crushed by Cuse the same day we crushed Miami to reach the Elite 8 in DC.  He recruited a lot of pretty darn good players but has only the one truly great season in 19 years to show for it. So you certainly have a point about his overall body of work.

They were ranked #1 most of the year and lost in the Sweet 16.  Won multiple Big Ten titles.  He has had to rebuild at every location.  Some coaches get to walk into dream scenarios, some do not.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2019, 09:36:17 PM by Cheeks »
”Bob Knight said never to coach brothers, and never coach twins....they will make you crazy.  When one is sad, the other is sad.”

Galway Eagle

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Re: Ken Pomeroy ranks all 353 teams since 1997
« Reply #39 on: August 09, 2019, 09:57:55 PM »
And the last Buzz team

I was trying to keep it realistic that a program like MU will have the occasional decent but not great season like the last buzz or the Henry year or the three NITs between Wojo and post FF crean
“More the knowledge, lesser the ego. Lesser the knowledge, more the ego.” Albert Einstein a note for some posters

Lennys Tap

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Re: Ken Pomeroy ranks all 353 teams since 1997
« Reply #40 on: August 09, 2019, 10:23:44 PM »
Buzz walked into a great situation that first year and then crapped on it in the last year.  Yes, he was a very good coach in between that couldn’t keep his guys (players and coaches) within the swim lanes required, but that first year Lenny could have guided that team to the tournament.

As the good Doctor pointed out, Buzz 83%, Crean 33%. Oh, and Chico 100% - 100% bullish#t.

Thanks for the props on my basketball acumen. Like Buzz, it didn't take much time for me to figure out that James should be shooting less and Wesley should be shooting more. TC hadn't figured it out after watching them for 3 years, though. In his defense, maybe he was relying on the Chiconian Principle of "5 years to judge" - maybe he would have agreed with Buzz and me after Wes's first year in the association. LOL.

Dr. Blackheart

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Re: Ken Pomeroy ranks all 353 teams since 1997
« Reply #41 on: August 10, 2019, 01:06:29 AM »
And the last Buzz team...looks like two thirds of Crean’s.

CTC Suckelor

willie warrior

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Re: Ken Pomeroy ranks all 353 teams since 1997
« Reply #42 on: August 10, 2019, 11:04:35 AM »
I wonder how many other schools have a fan saying this. Not everyone can be first
Right. But no reason why we are not, except for mediocrity mentality by fans and admin.

Cheeks

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Re: Ken Pomeroy ranks all 353 teams since 1997
« Reply #43 on: August 10, 2019, 11:14:55 AM »
As the good Doctor pointed out, Buzz 83%, Crean 33%. Oh, and Chico 100% - 100% bullish#t.

Thanks for the props on my basketball acumen. Like Buzz, it didn't take much time for me to figure out that James should be shooting less and Wesley should be shooting more. TC hadn't figured it out after watching them for 3 years, though. In his defense, maybe he was relying on the Chiconian Principle of "5 years to judge" - maybe he would have agreed with Buzz and me after Wes's first year in the association. LOL.

I guess Buzz hadn’t figured it out only a few weeks after beating them....what did we score against Cuse....did we break 40 points?
”Bob Knight said never to coach brothers, and never coach twins....they will make you crazy.  When one is sad, the other is sad.”

Cheeks

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Re: Ken Pomeroy ranks all 353 teams since 1997
« Reply #44 on: August 10, 2019, 11:16:35 AM »
CTC Suckelor


Changing someone’s actual quote.....well, same guy that advocates cheating so why should I be surprised.
”Bob Knight said never to coach brothers, and never coach twins....they will make you crazy.  When one is sad, the other is sad.”

real chili 83

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Re: Ken Pomeroy ranks all 353 teams since 1997
« Reply #45 on: August 10, 2019, 11:16:57 AM »
Right. But no reason why we are not, except for mediocrity mentality by fans and admin.

Willie, I guarantee this administration doesn’t want mediocrity. Your definition of the journey and their’s is just different. 

Shooter McGavin

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Re: Ken Pomeroy ranks all 353 teams since 1997
« Reply #46 on: August 11, 2019, 08:25:34 PM »
A couple of general thoughts about how tantalizingly close we are to "being back."

1) Take out the Deane years and the first two Wojo years and... Wow.
2) What separates us from the Top 10-15 teams is consistency. When we're good, we're really very good. When we're bad, well, we're horrid.

What this seems to say more than anything is consistency is everything. That's why I'm pulling for Wojo to have a big year this year -- both on the floor and recruiting. If we get a Top 10 class (and we're on our way to doing so) and go deep in the NCAA tournament, he's going to be the guy. I have no doubt he's as close as we're going to have to a lifer.

Hausergate was a BIG setback in my view. It takes away from the consistency we crave and need and puts pressure on the coach and the remaining guys to play and work outside their skill set. If we recover from this with few bumps and bruises, Coach Wojo will be someone special.

Short answer -- The teams at the top are consistent, in coaching, recruiting prowess and in winning. We can be there, but we have work to do.

Agree with all of this.