collapse

* Resources


UDM 4

* Jacksonville  SOTG

Sacar Anim

19 points, 4 rebounds,
2 assists, 37 minutes

2019-20 Season SoG Tally
Howard3
Anim1
Bailey1
McEwen1

'18-19 * '17-18 * '16-17
'15-16 * '14-15 * '13-14
'12-13 * '11-12 * '10-11

* Big East Standings

* Recent Posts

Cracked Sidewalks: Majerus Memory Showdown 1998 Utah by Marquetteauburn
[Today at 07:46:12 PM]


Big East Non Conference Results by JakeBarnes
[Today at 07:37:25 PM]


Pomeroy by Jay Bee
[Today at 06:46:41 PM]


Kansas paper write up by rocket surgeon
[Today at 05:49:27 PM]


NPOY Watch by PGsHeroes32
[Today at 05:08:16 PM]


KSU SOTG by GooooMarquette
[Today at 04:58:04 PM]


Weber grilled by MU82
[Today at 04:45:04 PM]

Please Register - It's FREE!

The absolute only thing required for this FREE registration is a valid e-mail address.  We keep all your information confidential and will NEVER give or sell it to anyone else.
Login to get rid of this box (and ads) , or register NOW!

* Next up: Grambling State

Marquette
73
Marquette vs

Grambling State

Date/Time: Dec 17, 2019 - 7:00pm
TV: FS WI
Schedule for 2019-20
Kansas St
65

Author Topic: Ken Pomeroy ranks all 353 teams since 1997  (Read 3661 times)

shoothoops

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 546
Ken Pomeroy ranks all 353 teams since 1997
« on: August 09, 2019, 08:58:29 AM »
He has data from 1997 to the present. Marquette comes in at..................33.

https://kenpom.com/programs.php

https://mobile.twitter.com/kenpomeroy/status/1159823740814929920
« Last Edit: August 09, 2019, 09:01:19 AM by shoothoops »

TAMU Garcia

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 16193
  • A Reading from Wojo's 1st Slide to the Marquettens
Re: Ken Pomeroy ranks all 353 teams since 1997
« Reply #1 on: August 09, 2019, 09:11:21 AM »
That seems about right
God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
The courage to change the things I can,
And the wisdom to know the difference.

~Prayer of the Scooper

The Lens

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 3354
Re: Ken Pomeroy ranks all 353 teams since 1997
« Reply #2 on: August 09, 2019, 10:20:27 AM »
5th best Catholic School

#7 Nova
#12 Zags
#25 X
#29 Notre Dame

Around the Big East:

#36 Gtown
#44 Creighton
#47 Butler
#53 Providence
#67 Seton Hall
#75 St. John's
#101 DePaul

(Dayton #79, SLU #93, St. Thomas NR)
The Teal Train has left the station and Lens is day drinking in the bar car    ---- Dr. Blackheart

Galway Eagle

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 6322
Re: Ken Pomeroy ranks all 353 teams since 1997
« Reply #3 on: August 09, 2019, 10:42:15 AM »
Not bad considering the last Deane team, first two cream seasons, and first Wojo season are in that time frame.

Take even the first three of those four out and I bet we just up big time
“More the knowledge, lesser the ego. Lesser the knowledge, more the ego.” Albert Einstein a note for some posters

Its DJOver

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 1749
Re: Ken Pomeroy ranks all 353 teams since 1997
« Reply #4 on: August 09, 2019, 10:44:24 AM »
Not bad considering the last Deane team, first two cream seasons, and first Wojo season are in that time frame.

Take even the first three of those four out and I bet we just up big time

Yep, wanna see how just a few bad years can kill an average, look at UCONN

Marcus92

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 2394
Re: Ken Pomeroy ranks all 353 teams since 1997
« Reply #5 on: August 09, 2019, 11:12:13 AM »
No big surprises in the Top 10 -- although I suspect #7 Villanova and #9 Florida wouldn't have been nearly this high in 1997.

At that point, before Jay Wright arrived, the Wildcats were a very good program. But UConn, Georgetown and Syracuse were better in the Big East. And Florida was yet to enter its dominant period with Billy Donovan.

#10 Texas has fallen significantly in recent years. The Longhorns have cracked the Top 25 just twice in the past eight seasons, and haven't finished in the Top 10 since 2010-11.

#12 Gonzaga is rising fast, with five Top 10 finishes in the past 7 seasons.

#13 UCLA is a similar story to Texas. Just two Top 25 finishes in the past 10 seasons -- including six years outside the Top 50 and two years where they fell out of the Top 100 altogether (2009-10 and 2018-19).

#15 Syracuse has been slowly slipping for a while. No Top 25 finishes in the past five seasons, and only nine Top 25 finishes since 2001.

#17 Virginia is on the rise, with five Top 10 finishes in the past 6 seasons.

#18 Indiana's been headed the other direction, with just one Top 25 finish in 6 years. The same goes for #19 UConn (one Top 25 finish in the last 8 seasons). #22 Memphis has been dropping big time since John Calipari left; only one Top 25 finish in the past 10 seasons.

I'm surprised Illinois ranks as high as it does (#23). Only two Top 25 finishes in the past 13 seasons, with six straight years outside the Top 50. Just shows how good they were under Lon Kruger, Bill Self and Bruce Weber.

Maybe the program that's falling the fastest is #32 Stanford. Eleven straight seasons missing the top 25, including four years outside the Top 100.

Hopefully Marquette can climb the ladder over the next 5-10 years.
"Let's get a green drink!" Famous last words

GooooMarquette

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 7281
  • Something that zero people will complain about.
Re: Ken Pomeroy ranks all 353 teams since 1997
« Reply #6 on: August 09, 2019, 11:56:55 AM »
5th best Catholic School

#7 Nova
#12 Zags
#25 X
#29 Notre Dame

Around the Big East:

#36 Gtown
#44 Creighton
#47 Butler
#53 Providence
#67 Seton Hall
#75 St. John's
#101 DePaul

(Dayton #79, SLU #93, St. Thomas NR)

So Dayton and SLU (as well as BC, St. Joe’s, and St. Mary’s) are higher than DePaul....

#sleepinggiant

Galway Eagle

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 6322
Re: Ken Pomeroy ranks all 353 teams since 1997
« Reply #7 on: August 09, 2019, 12:16:08 PM »
So Dayton and SLU (as well as BC, St. Joe’s, and St. Mary’s) are higher than DePaul....

#sleepinggiant

#comatosegiant
“More the knowledge, lesser the ego. Lesser the knowledge, more the ego.” Albert Einstein a note for some posters

Marcus92

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 2394
Re: Ken Pomeroy ranks all 353 teams since 1997
« Reply #8 on: August 09, 2019, 12:46:35 PM »
So Dayton and SLU (as well as BC, St. Joe’s, and St. Mary’s) are higher than DePaul....

DePaul's ranking isn't really out of line with the worst teams in other Power 6 conferences -- such as #95 Oregon State and #98 Washington State in the Pac 12, #85 Northwestern and #102 Rutgers in the Big 10, or even #87 TCU in the Big 12.

But the fact remains DePaul has consistently been the anchor of the Big East (and not in a good way like something you can count on for reliable support).
"Let's get a green drink!" Famous last words

Herman Cain

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 7644
  • 9-9-9
Re: Ken Pomeroy ranks all 353 teams since 1997
« Reply #9 on: August 09, 2019, 12:49:24 PM »
Here is the methodology used:

https://kenpom.com/blog/program-ratings/
What is The Jeopardy Question for this answer?

Paulina, Malvina and Lunt

The Hamberdler

  • Team Captain
  • ****
  • Posts: 453
Re: Ken Pomeroy ranks all 353 teams since 1997
« Reply #10 on: August 09, 2019, 12:51:55 PM »
Yep, wanna see how just a few bad years can kill an average, look at UCONN

What is uconn's ranking?

TAMU Garcia

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 16193
  • A Reading from Wojo's 1st Slide to the Marquettens
Re: Ken Pomeroy ranks all 353 teams since 1997
« Reply #11 on: August 09, 2019, 01:02:36 PM »
What is uconn's ranking?

19th, despite the most championships in that time period
God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
The courage to change the things I can,
And the wisdom to know the difference.

~Prayer of the Scooper

Dr. Blackheart

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 8121
Re: Ken Pomeroy ranks all 353 teams since 1997
« Reply #12 on: August 09, 2019, 01:03:52 PM »
First, great that KPom added more years to his sample.

Second, if 33 is the MU benchmark, let’s look at this by coach as to how many of their teams beat that.

Wojo’s: One beat (32 two years ago) and one meet (last season) in five seasons—40%
Buzz: Five beats in six years—83%
Crean: Three beats in nine years—33%
Deane: No beats in three measured years—A big donut

Buzz had the most offensively and defensively balanced teams. Wojo and Crean skew(ed) more offensive, and Deane to the defense. This tells me that Wojo = Crean so far with Wade being the difference. Crean was more up and down for sure, while Wojo is trending more slowly up. You can see why fans are waiting for his breakthrough, though. This is a big year for Wojo.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2019, 01:28:07 PM by Dr. Blackheart »

Stronghold

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 514
Re: Ken Pomeroy ranks all 353 teams since 1997
« Reply #13 on: August 09, 2019, 01:12:20 PM »
No big surprises in the Top 10 -- although I suspect #7 Villanova and #9 Florida wouldn't have been nearly this high in 1997.

#10 Texas has fallen significantly in recent years. The Longhorns have cracked the Top 25 just twice in the past eight seasons, and haven't finished in the Top 10 since 2010-11.

I was going to say Texas was my only surprise in the Top 10.  They must have been really good early on in this time frame to make up for their last 8 years.

BM1090

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 3975
Re: Ken Pomeroy ranks all 353 teams since 1997
« Reply #14 on: August 09, 2019, 01:26:40 PM »
First, great that KPom added more years to his sample.

Second, if 33 is the MU benchmark, let’s look at this by coach as to how many of their teams beat that.

Wojo’s: One beat (32 two years ago) and one meet (last season) in six seasons—33%
Buzz: Five beats in six years—83%
Crean: Three beats in nine years—33%
Deane: No beats in three measured years—A big donut

Buzz had the most offensively and defensively balanced teams. Wojo and Crean skew(ed) more offensive, and Deane to the defense. This tells me that Wojo = Crean so far with Wade being the difference. Crean was more up and down for sure, while Wojo is trending more slowly up. You can see why fans are waiting for his breakthrough, though. This is a big year for Wojo.

Good post. One small correction, Wojo has only been here 5 seasons.
Formerly MUeagle1090

Dr. Blackheart

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 8121
Re: Ken Pomeroy ranks all 353 teams since 1997
« Reply #15 on: August 09, 2019, 01:28:27 PM »
Good post. One small correction, Wojo has only been here 5 seasons.
Corrected.  Thanks

PointWarrior

  • Scholarship Player
  • **
  • Posts: 66
Re: Ken Pomeroy ranks all 353 teams since 1997
« Reply #16 on: August 09, 2019, 01:51:10 PM »
I assume Kenpom has Bucky at #1. 

brewcity77

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 20127
  • Alan Bykowski
    • Cracked Sidewalks
Re: Ken Pomeroy ranks all 353 teams since 1997
« Reply #17 on: August 09, 2019, 01:54:54 PM »
I assume Kenpom has Bucky at #1.

I was actually surprised to see them down at #16.

MU82

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 12590
Re: Ken Pomeroy ranks all 353 teams since 1997
« Reply #18 on: August 09, 2019, 02:16:15 PM »
First, great that KPom added more years to his sample.

Second, if 33 is the MU benchmark, let’s look at this by coach as to how many of their teams beat that.

Wojo’s: One beat (32 two years ago) and one meet (last season) in five seasons—40%
Buzz: Five beats in six years—83%
Crean: Three beats in nine years—33%
Deane: No beats in three measured years—A big donut

Buzz had the most offensively and defensively balanced teams. Wojo and Crean skew(ed) more offensive, and Deane to the defense. This tells me that Wojo = Crean so far with Wade being the difference. Crean was more up and down for sure, while Wojo is trending more slowly up. You can see why fans are waiting for his breakthrough, though. This is a big year for Wojo.

Informative, level-headed post.

I'm no Crean apologist (or Crean hater), but one small quibble is that I don't think it's fair when some say stuff like, "If not for Wade, he wouldn't have done as well." The fact is, he got Wade, and he deserves credit for it not an asterisk for it. (Not saying you do this, Dr. B.)

Agree that this should be a big year for Wojo. Not sure if MU administration feels the same (from a "going on hot seat" standpoint), but maybe they do.
"Philanthropy is commendable, but it must not cause the philanthropist to overlook the circumstances of economic injustice which make philanthropy necessary."

-- Martin Luther King Jr.

dgies9156

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 2754
Re: Ken Pomeroy ranks all 353 teams since 1997
« Reply #19 on: August 09, 2019, 02:20:42 PM »
A couple of general thoughts about how tantalizingly close we are to "being back."

1) Take out the Deane years and the first two Wojo years and... Wow.
2) What separates us from the Top 10-15 teams is consistency. When we're good, we're really very good. When we're bad, well, we're horrid.

What this seems to say more than anything is consistency is everything. That's why I'm pulling for Wojo to have a big year this year -- both on the floor and recruiting. If we get a Top 10 class (and we're on our way to doing so) and go deep in the NCAA tournament, he's going to be the guy. I have no doubt he's as close as we're going to have to a lifer.

Hausergate was a BIG setback in my view. It takes away from the consistency we crave and need and puts pressure on the coach and the remaining guys to play and work outside their skill set. If we recover from this with few bumps and bruises, Coach Wojo will be someone special.

Short answer -- The teams at the top are consistent, in coaching, recruiting prowess and in winning. We can be there, but we have work to do.

IrwinFletcher

  • Registered User
  • Team Captain
  • ****
  • Posts: 422
Re: Ken Pomeroy ranks all 353 teams since 1997
« Reply #20 on: August 09, 2019, 02:22:58 PM »
5th best Catholic School

#7 Nova
#12 Zags
#25 X
#29 Notre Dame

Around the Big East:

#36 Gtown
#44 Creighton
#47 Butler
#53 Providence
#67 Seton Hall
#75 St. John's
#101 DePaul

(Dayton #79, SLU #93, St. Thomas NR)

Well done good Sir.

Dr. Blackheart

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 8121
Re: Ken Pomeroy ranks all 353 teams since 1997
« Reply #21 on: August 09, 2019, 02:24:55 PM »
I was actually surprised to see them down at #16.

Like it or not, 22/24 NCAAs, three Final 4’s during that span over four coaches. MU has missed the Big Dance four out of the last six. This isn’t bashing Wojo as his job was to reset the program...but between MU fans’ expectations based on history and who MU competes with in public sentiment, expectations are sky high.

willie warrior

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 7237
Re: Ken Pomeroy ranks all 353 teams since 1997
« Reply #22 on: August 09, 2019, 02:58:25 PM »
5th best Catholic School

#7 Nova
#12 Zags
#25 X
#29 Notre Dame

Around the Big East:

#36 Gtown
#44 Creighton
#47 Butler
#53 Providence
#67 Seton Hall
#75 St. John's
#101 DePaul

(Dayton #79, SLU #93, St. Thomas NR)
No reason why we should not be #1 Catholic school, except for those who accept mediocrity

Galway Eagle

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 6322
Re: Ken Pomeroy ranks all 353 teams since 1997
« Reply #23 on: August 09, 2019, 03:01:27 PM »
No reason why we should not be #1 Catholic school, except for those who accept mediocrity

I wonder how many other schools have a fan saying this. Not everyone can be first
“More the knowledge, lesser the ego. Lesser the knowledge, more the ego.” Albert Einstein a note for some posters

Dr. Blackheart

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 8121
Re: Ken Pomeroy ranks all 353 teams since 1997
« Reply #24 on: August 09, 2019, 03:06:01 PM »
Informative, level-headed post.

I'm no Crean apologist (or Crean hater), but one small quibble is that I don't think it's fair when some say stuff like, "If not for Wade, he wouldn't have done as well." The fact is, he got Wade, and he deserves credit for it not an asterisk for it. (Not saying you do this, Dr. B.)

I agree that footnote on Crean is unfair as he did sign him and develop him so he should get credit. The reason I did mention that is that put Crean into the elite...but it was the anomaly to his norm that came after at MU and IU...which is very seasaw’ish versus Wojo who is on a slow burn up—but with similar comps to this point.

On the Wojo hot-seat issue, a four seed and a top 1-3 BE finish with a NCAA run, he is good to go. This team is built very differently than his past teams...more like a Buzz balanced team on both sides of the ball.




Its DJOver

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 1749
Re: Ken Pomeroy ranks all 353 teams since 1997
« Reply #25 on: August 09, 2019, 03:21:12 PM »
I wonder how many other schools have a fan saying this. Not everyone can be first

We're all just a bunch of Cal Naughton Jr's in a room with the man, the myth, the legend himself Ricky "Willie" Bobby.

Mr. Sand-Knit

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 2887
Re: Ken Pomeroy ranks all 353 teams since 1997
« Reply #26 on: August 09, 2019, 03:25:42 PM »
A couple of general thoughts about how tantalizingly close we are to "being back."

1) Take out the Deane years and the first two Wojo years and... Wow.
2) What separates us from the Top 10-15 teams is consistency. When we're good, we're really very good. When we're bad, well, we're horrid.

What this seems to say more than anything is consistency is everything. That's why I'm pulling for Wojo to have a big year this year -- both on the floor and recruiting. If we get a Top 10 class (and we're on our way to doing so) and go deep in the NCAA tournament, he's going to be the guy. I have no doubt he's as close as we're going to have to a lifer.

Hausergate was a BIG setback in my view. It takes away from the consistency we crave and need and puts pressure on the coach and the remaining guys to play and work outside their skill set. If we recover from this with few bumps and bruises, Coach Wojo will be someone special.

Short answer -- The teams at the top are consistent, in coaching, recruiting prowess and in winning. We can be there, but we have work to do.

Hausers really screwed the program.  We are a shoe in top 10 team next year with a lot of preseason buzz and potentially a national player of the year.   I can only imagine what our recuiting this summer would look like with that national notoriety n buzz over the summer. 
Why i struggle with people saying they wish them the best and hold no ill will.  I hold ill will n surely wont be rooting for them.
Political free board, plz leave your clever quips in your clever mind.

The Lens

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 3354
Re: Ken Pomeroy ranks all 353 teams since 1997
« Reply #27 on: August 09, 2019, 03:29:58 PM »
Hausers really screwed the program.  We are a shoe in top 10 team next year with a lot of preseason buzz and potentially a national player of the year.   I can only imagine what our recuiting this summer would look like with that national notoriety n buzz over the summer. 
Why i struggle with people saying they wish them the best and hold no ill will.  I hold ill will n surely wont be rooting for them.

Your honesty is refreshing.  Be careful though, ill will is very cold, you hold it too long and you might get frostbite.
The Teal Train has left the station and Lens is day drinking in the bar car    ---- Dr. Blackheart

LloydsLegs

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 1107
Re: Ken Pomeroy ranks all 353 teams since 1997
« Reply #28 on: August 09, 2019, 03:48:49 PM »
5th best Catholic School

#7 Nova
#12 Zags
#25 X
#29 Notre Dame

Around the Big East:

#36 Gtown
#44 Creighton
#47 Butler
#53 Providence
#67 Seton Hall
#75 St. John's
#101 DePaul

(Dayton #79, SLU #93, St. Thomas NR)

well played

Dr. Blackheart

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 8121
Re: Ken Pomeroy ranks all 353 teams since 1997
« Reply #29 on: August 09, 2019, 03:57:19 PM »

MU82

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 12590
Re: Ken Pomeroy ranks all 353 teams since 1997
« Reply #30 on: August 09, 2019, 04:03:26 PM »
I agree that footnote on Crean is unfair as he did sign him and develop him so he should get credit. The reason I did mention that is that put Crean into the elite...but it was the anomaly to his norm that came after at MU and IU...which is very seasaw’ish versus Wojo who is on a slow burn up—but with similar comps to this point.

On the Wojo hot-seat issue, a four seed and a top 1-3 BE finish with a NCAA run, he is good to go. This team is built very differently than his past teams...more like a Buzz balanced team on both sides of the ball.

Good points.

Crean did get Zeller and Oladipo to Indiana, too. They, and Yogi Ferrell, were on the team that got crushed by Cuse the same day we crushed Miami to reach the Elite 8 in DC.  He recruited a lot of pretty darn good players but has only the one truly great season in 19 years to show for it. So you certainly have a point about his overall body of work.
"Philanthropy is commendable, but it must not cause the philanthropist to overlook the circumstances of economic injustice which make philanthropy necessary."

-- Martin Luther King Jr.

Galway Eagle

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 6322
Re: Ken Pomeroy ranks all 353 teams since 1997
« Reply #31 on: August 09, 2019, 04:16:44 PM »
Good points.

Crean did get Zeller and Oladipo to Indiana, too. They, and Yogi Ferrell, were on the team that got crushed by Cuse the same day we crushed Miami to reach the Elite 8 in DC.  He recruited a lot of pretty darn good players but has only the one truly great season in 19 years to show for it. So you certainly have a point about his overall body of work.

29-7, win B1G, sweet 16 seems like a  great season to me. I still think crean threw that game against Cuse to avoid embarrassingly losing to his former school
“More the knowledge, lesser the ego. Lesser the knowledge, more the ego.” Albert Einstein a note for some posters

Fluffy Blue Monster

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 2139
  • When I'm in Holland I eat the pannenkoeken
Re: Ken Pomeroy ranks all 353 teams since 1997
« Reply #32 on: August 09, 2019, 04:23:58 PM »
29-7, win B1G, sweet 16 seems like a  great season to me. I still think crean threw that game against Cuse to avoid embarrassingly losing to his former school

With that recruiting class?  It was a disappointment.
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.”  -Clarence Darrow

Dr. Blackheart

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 8121
Re: Ken Pomeroy ranks all 353 teams since 1997
« Reply #33 on: August 09, 2019, 04:31:57 PM »
Good points.

Crean did get Zeller and Oladipo to Indiana, too. They, and Yogi Ferrell, were on the team that got crushed by Cuse the same day we crushed Miami to reach the Elite 8 in DC.  He recruited a lot of pretty darn good players but has only the one truly great season in 19 years to show for it. So you certainly have a point about his overall body of work.

His IU teams were also good to great offensively and mediocre to poor defensively just like at MU. Same pattern. Good D on a poor offensive night can win you a crapshoot.  CTC has earned his nickname "The Turtle". 

MU82

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 12590
Re: Ken Pomeroy ranks all 353 teams since 1997
« Reply #34 on: August 09, 2019, 04:43:49 PM »
29-7, win B1G, sweet 16 seems like a  great season to me. I still think crean threw that game against Cuse to avoid embarrassingly losing to his former school

I guess it depends on how you define "great." Granted, I'd be happy with that season in a vacuum, but given the talent, and given that was his very best season in a decade there, I can see why HoosierLand might have not been as generous as you.
"Philanthropy is commendable, but it must not cause the philanthropist to overlook the circumstances of economic injustice which make philanthropy necessary."

-- Martin Luther King Jr.

Galway Eagle

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 6322
Re: Ken Pomeroy ranks all 353 teams since 1997
« Reply #35 on: August 09, 2019, 07:49:33 PM »
I guess it depends on how you define "great." Granted, I'd be happy with that season in a vacuum, but given the talent, and given that was his very best season in a decade there, I can see why HoosierLand might have not been as generous as you.

Fair enough. It does seem like they still have a similar mindset as the UCLA fans that believe wins are their god given right.
“More the knowledge, lesser the ego. Lesser the knowledge, more the ego.” Albert Einstein a note for some posters

Cheeks

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 4334
  • Immensely correct
Re: Ken Pomeroy ranks all 353 teams since 1997
« Reply #36 on: August 09, 2019, 09:29:32 PM »
Not bad considering the last Deane team, first two cream seasons, and first Wojo season are in that time frame.

Take even the first three of those four out and I bet we just up big time

And the last Buzz team
”Bob Knight said never to coach brothers, and never coach twins....they will make you crazy.  When one is sad, the other is sad.”

Cheeks

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 4334
  • Immensely correct
Re: Ken Pomeroy ranks all 353 teams since 1997
« Reply #37 on: August 09, 2019, 09:31:57 PM »
First, great that KPom added more years to his sample.

Second, if 33 is the MU benchmark, let’s look at this by coach as to how many of their teams beat that.

Wojo’s: One beat (32 two years ago) and one meet (last season) in five seasons—40%
Buzz: Five beats in six years—83%
Crean: Three beats in nine years—33%
Deane: No beats in three measured years—A big donut

Buzz had the most offensively and defensively balanced teams. Wojo and Crean skew(ed) more offensive, and Deane to the defense. This tells me that Wojo = Crean so far with Wade being the difference. Crean was more up and down for sure, while Wojo is trending more slowly up. You can see why fans are waiting for his breakthrough, though. This is a big year for Wojo.

Buzz walked into a great situation that first year and then crapped on it in the last year.  Yes, he was a very good coach in between that couldn’t keep his guys (players and coaches) within the swim lanes required, but that first year Lenny could have guided that team to the tournament.
”Bob Knight said never to coach brothers, and never coach twins....they will make you crazy.  When one is sad, the other is sad.”

Cheeks

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 4334
  • Immensely correct
Re: Ken Pomeroy ranks all 353 teams since 1997
« Reply #38 on: August 09, 2019, 09:34:03 PM »
Good points.

Crean did get Zeller and Oladipo to Indiana, too. They, and Yogi Ferrell, were on the team that got crushed by Cuse the same day we crushed Miami to reach the Elite 8 in DC.  He recruited a lot of pretty darn good players but has only the one truly great season in 19 years to show for it. So you certainly have a point about his overall body of work.

They were ranked #1 most of the year and lost in the Sweet 16.  Won multiple Big Ten titles.  He has had to rebuild at every location.  Some coaches get to walk into dream scenarios, some do not.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2019, 09:36:17 PM by Cheeks »
”Bob Knight said never to coach brothers, and never coach twins....they will make you crazy.  When one is sad, the other is sad.”

Galway Eagle

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 6322
Re: Ken Pomeroy ranks all 353 teams since 1997
« Reply #39 on: August 09, 2019, 09:57:55 PM »
And the last Buzz team

I was trying to keep it realistic that a program like MU will have the occasional decent but not great season like the last buzz or the Henry year or the three NITs between Wojo and post FF crean
“More the knowledge, lesser the ego. Lesser the knowledge, more the ego.” Albert Einstein a note for some posters

Lennys Tap

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 9896
Re: Ken Pomeroy ranks all 353 teams since 1997
« Reply #40 on: August 09, 2019, 10:23:44 PM »
Buzz walked into a great situation that first year and then crapped on it in the last year.  Yes, he was a very good coach in between that couldn’t keep his guys (players and coaches) within the swim lanes required, but that first year Lenny could have guided that team to the tournament.

As the good Doctor pointed out, Buzz 83%, Crean 33%. Oh, and Chico 100% - 100% bullish#t.

Thanks for the props on my basketball acumen. Like Buzz, it didn't take much time for me to figure out that James should be shooting less and Wesley should be shooting more. TC hadn't figured it out after watching them for 3 years, though. In his defense, maybe he was relying on the Chiconian Principle of "5 years to judge" - maybe he would have agreed with Buzz and me after Wes's first year in the association. LOL.

Dr. Blackheart

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 8121
Re: Ken Pomeroy ranks all 353 teams since 1997
« Reply #41 on: August 10, 2019, 01:06:29 AM »
And the last Buzz team...looks like two thirds of Crean’s.

CTC Suckelor

willie warrior

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 7237
Re: Ken Pomeroy ranks all 353 teams since 1997
« Reply #42 on: August 10, 2019, 11:04:35 AM »
I wonder how many other schools have a fan saying this. Not everyone can be first
Right. But no reason why we are not, except for mediocrity mentality by fans and admin.

Cheeks

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 4334
  • Immensely correct
Re: Ken Pomeroy ranks all 353 teams since 1997
« Reply #43 on: August 10, 2019, 11:14:55 AM »
As the good Doctor pointed out, Buzz 83%, Crean 33%. Oh, and Chico 100% - 100% bullish#t.

Thanks for the props on my basketball acumen. Like Buzz, it didn't take much time for me to figure out that James should be shooting less and Wesley should be shooting more. TC hadn't figured it out after watching them for 3 years, though. In his defense, maybe he was relying on the Chiconian Principle of "5 years to judge" - maybe he would have agreed with Buzz and me after Wes's first year in the association. LOL.

I guess Buzz hadn’t figured it out only a few weeks after beating them....what did we score against Cuse....did we break 40 points?
”Bob Knight said never to coach brothers, and never coach twins....they will make you crazy.  When one is sad, the other is sad.”

Cheeks

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 4334
  • Immensely correct
Re: Ken Pomeroy ranks all 353 teams since 1997
« Reply #44 on: August 10, 2019, 11:16:35 AM »
CTC Suckelor


Changing someone’s actual quote.....well, same guy that advocates cheating so why should I be surprised.
”Bob Knight said never to coach brothers, and never coach twins....they will make you crazy.  When one is sad, the other is sad.”

real chili 83

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 7442
Re: Ken Pomeroy ranks all 353 teams since 1997
« Reply #45 on: August 10, 2019, 11:16:57 AM »
Right. But no reason why we are not, except for mediocrity mentality by fans and admin.

Willie, I guarantee this administration doesn’t want mediocrity. Your definition of the journey and their’s is just different. 

Shooter McGavin

  • Team Captain
  • ****
  • Posts: 267
  • MU92
Re: Ken Pomeroy ranks all 353 teams since 1997
« Reply #46 on: August 11, 2019, 08:25:34 PM »
A couple of general thoughts about how tantalizingly close we are to "being back."

1) Take out the Deane years and the first two Wojo years and... Wow.
2) What separates us from the Top 10-15 teams is consistency. When we're good, we're really very good. When we're bad, well, we're horrid.

What this seems to say more than anything is consistency is everything. That's why I'm pulling for Wojo to have a big year this year -- both on the floor and recruiting. If we get a Top 10 class (and we're on our way to doing so) and go deep in the NCAA tournament, he's going to be the guy. I have no doubt he's as close as we're going to have to a lifer.

Hausergate was a BIG setback in my view. It takes away from the consistency we crave and need and puts pressure on the coach and the remaining guys to play and work outside their skill set. If we recover from this with few bumps and bruises, Coach Wojo will be someone special.

Short answer -- The teams at the top are consistent, in coaching, recruiting prowess and in winning. We can be there, but we have work to do.

Agree with all of this.