NFL Thread 2019-2020

[4everwarriors]

I dunno. Did da ball bust da plain, hey?

[MUBurrow]

This may be a dumb thing to take away from that game - but even if Kyle Allen doesn't improve a lick, he's going to have a long career and make a bundle of money as a top backup. He can make the throws, isn't afraid to go over the middle, and has a good pocket presence with next level ability and willingness to throw it away if his first couple options aren't there.

[The Sultan]

But the statistics are a 47.9% conversion rate.

Well you have to account for missed PAT and maybe Carolina's rate is better.

[4everwarriors]

This may be a dumb thing to take away from that game - but even if Kyle Allen doesn't improve a lick, he's going to have a long career and make a bundle of money as a top backup. He can make the throws, isn't afraid to go over the middle, and has a good pocket presence with next level ability and willingness to throw it away if his first couple options aren't there.

Dude is a damn good startin' QB write now. Won't bee no back-up anywhere and shoulda bin a top 5 draft pick. Cat can play, hey?

[MU82]

Analytics.

In theory it makes sense with that much time left. You're going to get at least 2 more possessions, so I'd you cut it to 6 you can get 2 field goals and send it to overtime. If you don't get it you still have the chance to go for 2 and tie the game.

Interesting. I actually didn't think of this, so I thought Rivera had lost his mind. But the way you describe it, it makes some sense now. I wonder how many coaches actually woulda gone for 2 there, though.

Packers have gotten some favorable calls. These things mostly even out.

Yep. I thought the officiating kind of sucked. The call on the Rodgers hit in the EZ was brutal and they missed what should have been a facemask on a defender grabbing Allen; both were huge plays that hurt the Panthers badly. But there was a brutal offensive interference call on the Packers early, and a couple other questionable calls against them, as well. Life in the NFL; those guys have no effen clue.

Definitely was in. But pretty sure it's illegal to pull someone in on your team so the refs called the stand.

I wanted that football to break the plane of the goal line as much as anybody who isn't actually part of the Panthers' organization, but I never saw one angle that showed the ball breaking the plane of the goal line. Oh well. I actually liked the call. Give the ball to your best player.

Nads must bee lyckin' his wounds, aina?

Nope. It's sports. Crud happens.

I wanted the Panthers to win but my guys needed to play an almost perfect game. Terrible INT by Allen in the EZ. Terrible lost fumble. Terrible run defense most of the game. I didn't hear Kuechly's name called on a single defensive play. The Panthers just didn't quite play well enough.

But despite some pretty serious injuries (including the Panthers' best CB not being able to play), despite being on the road in the snow against a good team that was motivated by a bad loss in its previous game, and despite having to use an undrafted QB who barely played in college and who is improving but obviously still learning on the fly, the Panthers came within a few inches of having a chance to tie on the final play of regulation.

No banners for "almost," but my guys acquitted themselves well, and I still think this can be a successful season.

I will confess to jumping off the recliner and screaming an expletive at the TV on that call against McCoy, though.

Oh ... and one more thing ...

Saints better without Brees................................

[Jockey]

This may be a dumb thing to take away from that game - but even if Kyle Allen doesn't improve a lick, he's going to have a long career and make a bundle of money as a top backup. He can make the throws, isn't afraid to go over the middle, and has a good pocket presence with next level ability and willingness to throw it away if his first couple options aren't there.

I agree he looked pretty good today - but you gotta consider he was going against one of the worst defenses in the league. Every QB this side of Trubisky has looked pretty good.

I think it was a great call to put Newton on IR and let the kid play the rest of the year. They need to know if he is at least capable of being a starter. The decision will have huge financial ramifications for Carolina's future - whether thy have to sink $25 million a year into the position.

I would warn, however, that rookie QBs who look good don't always translate to the 2nd year when coordinators have lots of tape to look at.

[jsglow]

I agree he looked pretty good today - but you gotta consider he was going against one of the worst defenses in the league. Every QB this side of Trubisky has looked pretty good.

Whadda ya talking about?  Trubisky was great for about 15 minutes.

[Jockey]

Whadda ya talking about?  Trubisky was great for about 15 minutes.

Total for the year?

[JWags85]

I agree he looked pretty good today - but you gotta consider he was going against one of the worst defenses in the league. Every QB this side of Trubisky has looked pretty good.

I think it was a great call to put Newton on IR and let the kid play the rest of the year. They need to know if he is at least capable of being a starter. The decision will have huge financial ramifications for Carolina's future - whether thy have to sink $25 million a year into the position.

I would warn, however, that rookie QBs who look good don't always translate to the 2nd year when coordinators have lots of tape to look at.

I wasn't impressed by the stuff having tape on you can change. He had a ton of poise in the pocket. Got rid of the ball wisely and quickly when needed. The play on the last drive where he pulled up at the LOS and stayed behind to make a throw was a veteran heady play. He just seemed very poised in rough conditions and big moments. He's not an all star and he's not perfect, but I think he looked really promising

[MU82]

Unlike I'm guessing the rest of y'all here, who have no reason to subject yourselves to Carolina Panthers football on a weekly basis, I have seen every snap of Kyle Allen's NFL career.

PROS:

He has guts. He has nice touch on his throws. He is pretty good at sidestepping or ducking under the rush when it's in front of him. His arm is strong enough for the NFL. He has made some crazy-good plays even in games in which he has not played that well.

CONS:

He doesn't have good pocket awareness -- the sense the good QBs have that a defender is bearing down on them. He locks in on a receiver and throws even if defenders are there. He does not have good wheels. He is not a very good decision maker. He often fails to see open receivers, partly because he does not see the whole field well. After being quite accurate his first few games, he has been much less so the last few, throwing 5 INTs the last 3 games. He has lost a half-dozen fumbles.

A lot of the cons, hopefully, will be solved gradually as he gains experience. He barely played in college, and he wasn't even on an NFL active roster a year ago. He seems to be willing and able to learn.

I am assuming Cam Newton has played his last game as a Panther. If Allen keeps progressing this season, I will feel pretty darn good about going into 2020 with him as my QB. The Panthers drafted an outstanding college passer from West Virginia, Will Grier, in the 3rd round (100th overall) last season, so they hopefully have a second young QB who will be brought along slowly, too. There are NFL teams with worse situations at the position.

But Allen does have to keep getting better, because his flaws -- especially those involving taking care of the football, seeing the field and making good decisions -- are pretty big right now. I know that Cam is a polarizing figure, and lots of people "hate" him, but for 5, 6, 7 years he was a special QB. Allen probably will never be that. Nevertheless, this Panthers fan is optimistic about his future.

[tower912]

Whadda ya talking about?  Trubisky was great for about 15 minutes.

He was going against the worst defense in the league.   

[rocket surgeon]

This may be a dumb thing to take away from that game - but even if Kyle Allen doesn't improve a lick, he's going to have a long career and make a bundle of money as a top backup. He can make the throws, isn't afraid to go over the middle, and has a good pocket presence with next level ability and willingness to throw it away if his first couple options aren't there.

if i were a bear fan, i'd take him over trubisky right now!!  his fumble was his worst blunder.  throws a nice ball, sees the field well, great mobility...

[hairy worthen]

Definitely was in. But pretty sure it's illegal to pull someone in on your team so the refs called the stand.

No. not definitely  in. Go look again, not even close. You do know the ball has to cross the plane not his helmet.

[Cheeks]

Pros

Cam has better outfits than Allen


Cons

Cam has worse outfits than Allen

[Jockey]

I wasn't impressed by the stuff having tape on you can change. He had a ton of poise in the pocket. Got rid of the ball wisely and quickly when needed. The play on the last drive where he pulled up at the LOS and stayed behind to make a throw was a veteran heady play. He just seemed very poised in rough conditions and big moments. He's not an all star and he's not perfect, but I think he looked really promising

I agree, Wags. He showed a lot of NFL skills today.

But, I just look at guys like Mayfield and see how they get worse with more tape. Same for Trubisky in his 2nd full season as the starter.

[jsglow]

He was going against the worst defense in the league.

That's right.  Aren't you a long suffering Lions fan tower?

[Cheeks]

I agree, Wags. He showed a lot of NFL skills today.

But, I just look at guys like Mayfield and see how they get worse with more tape. Same for Trubisky in his 2nd full season as the starter.

Mayfield and Trubisky have terrible head coaches.

[Jockey]

I commend LaFleur for giving more snaps to Lazard and Kumerow at the expense of Scantling and Allison.

Scantling is a one-trick pony and Allison is no better than a 5th WR.

[MU82]

if i were a bear fan, i'd take him over trubisky right now!!  his fumble was his worst blunder.  throws a nice ball, sees the field well, great mobility...

His worst blunder, by far, was throwing an INT in the EZ, costing the Panthers a sure 3 points.

He doesn't see the field very well. Aikman specifically pointed at a couple of plays in which his tunnel vision cost (or could have cost) the Panthers dearly -- the aforementioned INT, and another pass that should have been a Pick-6 but the DB dropped it

He absolutely does not have great mobility. Many, many, many QBs, including Trubisky, have far superior running skills. Those who have seen him all season consider him more of a plodder than a runner. He isn't bad at sidestepping pressure in the pocket, though.

I don't mean to sound like I dislike Allen, because I don't. He's actually been a revelation. But y'all have seen him play one game against a mediocre defensive team. I have seen every snap he has taken.

I am encouraged that he could have a future as a long-term NFL starter, but as out-of-nowhere stories go, he isn't Kurt Warner yet. He isn't even Jake Delhomme yet. We'll see.

Pros

Cam has better outfits than Allen


Cons

Cam has worse outfits than Allen

Saints better without Brees....

[JWags85]

The Panthers drafted an outstanding college passer from West Virginia, Will Grier, in the 3rd round (100th overall) last season, so they hopefully have a second young QB who will be brought along slowly, too. There are NFL teams with worse situations at the position.

FWIW, Grier is older than Allen by a full year.  He was old as a college freshman before taking all 5 years.

[MU82]

FWIW, Grier is older than Allen by a full year.  He was old as a college freshman before taking all 5 years.

Yessir.

Obviously, the Panthers were pretty high on him as a prospect, though folks who were at training camp said he was quite inconsistent there. And he mostly sucked in preseason games. So I'm sure hoping Allen stays healthy.

[Cheeks]

Hey Mikey, any experts saying Saints better without Brees?  More than a decent amount of sportswriters and NFL prognosticators have said Panthers better off without Newton at this point.  I realize alll love affairs with QBs have to come to an end...it is ok.  Newton will have a better career, may go to the HOF, Allen won't...it's about what Cam has done lately...I know it hurts big guy..I know it hurts.  It's ok, time heals all wounds.

[MU82]

Hey Mikey, any experts saying Saints better without Brees?  More than a decent amount of sportswriters and NFL prognosticators have said Panthers better off without Newton at this point.  I realize alll love affairs with QBs have to come to an end...it is ok.  Newton will have a better career, may go to the HOF, Allen won't...it's about what Cam has done lately...I know it hurts big guy..I know it hurts.  It's ok, time heals all wounds.

Saints better without Brees....

[wadesworld]

Saints better without Brees...

[Cheeks]

Saints better without Brees...

https://youtu.be/x0kZNiAUGpg