MUScoop
MUScoop => The Superbar => Topic started by: Spotcheck Billy on July 24, 2019, 10:28:07 AM
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Reports that the Packers cut Mike Daniels today.
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Reports that the Packers cut Mike Daniels today.
Good move.
Been way overrated the last 2 years.
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Courageous speech by Champ Bailey.
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Bears vs. Da Bears today. Rivera vs. Nagy. MU 82 stringing yard lights as we speak.
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Bears vs. Da Bears today. Rivera vs. Nagy. MU 82 stringing yard lights as we speak.
No lights for preseason. I try to wait for Dhanu Sankranti; then I string them in a neighbor's tree.
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Courageous speech by Champ Bailey.
My new hero for sure. Mt Rushmore
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That's one approach to moving past the disappointment, Matt.
https://deadspin.com/matt-nagy-has-double-doink-on-the-brain-1837094538 (https://deadspin.com/matt-nagy-has-double-doink-on-the-brain-1837094538)
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My new hero for sure. Mt Rushmore
His speech was eloquent, it came from the heart, and it addressed real issues facing real Americans today.
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His speech was eloquent, it came from the heart, and it addressed real issues facing real Americans today.
Yes, so do Herschel Walker speeches....lots of issues face Americans these days, we are glad you only highlight a select few. Thoughts and prayers for the others that are not receiving your bright light.
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Yes, so do Herschel Walker speeches....lots of issues face Americans these days, we are glad you only highlight a select few. Thoughts and prayers for the others that are not receiving your bright light.
Did Herschel Walker just recently deliver a topical Hall of Fame speech that the rest of us missed? If so, please enlighten us.
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lol Antonio Brown
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Did Herschel Walker just recently deliver a topical Hall of Fame speech that the rest of us missed? If so, please enlighten us.
Yes, you missed his topical speech...no it wasn’t at the Hall of Fame...Walker have his speech there years back. Not all great speeches have to be recent.
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Hershel just likes his tax cuts
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Yes, you missed his topical speech...no it wasn’t at the Hall of Fame...Walker have his speech there years back. Not all great speeches have to be recent.
Ignoring
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Cedric Benson killed in motorcycle crash in Austin.
https://sportsday.dallasnews.com/college-sports/collegesports/2019/08/18/former-longhorns-rb-cedric-benson-dies-motorcycle-accident-reports-say
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Cedric Benson killed in motorcycle crash in Austin.
https://sportsday.dallasnews.com/college-sports/collegesports/2019/08/18/former-longhorns-rb-cedric-benson-dies-motorcycle-accident-reports-say
Sad. Hope that alcohol wasn't involved, but history not on his side here.
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Sad. Hope that alcohol wasn't involved, but history not on his side here.
FWIW, the crash apparently wasn't his fault. Early reports are that a minivan pulled in front of him.
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FWIW, the crash apparently wasn't his fault. Early reports are that a minivan pulled in front of him.
"early reports"
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I think the NFL was in charge of the floor at the carrier game. Second Packer preseason game impacted by turf conditions over the last few years.
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LaFleur pulling all starters. No kickoffs, goal line at the 10, 80 yard field.
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I'm not sure why the field is incorrect, while the Winnipeg Blue Bombers play on that field.
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I'm not sure why the field is incorrect, while the Winnipeg Blue Bombers play on that field.
I believe the issue is the spots where the CFL goal posts are and the teams not being happy with how they were filled. CFL puts their goal posts on the goal line.
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CFL fields are 110 yards long. So they are playing on a 90 yeard field.
What an embarrassing disaster. There is no way the NFL should have allowed this. And so does Rodgers play in the last pre-season game???
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I believe the issue is the spots where the CFL goal posts are and the teams not being happy with how they were filled. CFL puts their goal posts on the goal line.
110 yard field and 20 yard end zones in the CFL. I do watch the CFL.. Still weird that this problem was not fixed.
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CFL fields are 110 yards long. So they are playing on a 90 yeard field.
What an embarrassing disaster. There is no way the NFL should have allowed this. And so does Rodgers play in the last pre-season game???
Does anyone play a pre-season game 3 years from now?
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CFL fields are 110 yards long. So they are playing on a 90 yeard field.
True, but the field was set up as a regulation NFL 100-yard field, so it was actually an 80-yard field.
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True, but the field was set up as a regulation NFL 100-yard field, so it was actually an 80-yard field.
Yes. Thank you for the correction.
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Andrew Luck retiring. So unlucky with injuries.
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Just gonna throw these out there for discussion’s sake, my best value bets heading into season. All lines from Bovada. I don’t necessarily predict these things will happen, but like the value.
Bills +300 to make playoffs
I like their schedule, they honestly should start 3-0, and then get the Pats at home. Josh Allen was sneaky good down the stretch last year.
Offensive Rookie of the Year - Miles Sanders +1600
I’m not buying Kyler Murray stock in 2019, I think the Cardinals are going to be a train wreck. I think Sanders becomes the lead back in Philly in an offense that will be putting up leads early and he’ll get a big workload.
Vikings +240 to win NFC North
I won’t be surprised at who wins the North, but there’s too much value here to ignore.
Texans +285 to win AFC South
This is my favorite on the board. Is Andrew Luck ok? Even if he is ok, are the Colts that much better than the Texans? Duke Johnson might be better than Lamar Miller, or the Texans have the cap space to trade for Melvin Gordon.
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Sorry, just saw the Andrew Luck news after my post, obviously changes everything in the AFC South.
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Sorry, just saw the Andrew Luck news after my post, obviously changes everything in the AFC South.
Been texting with his agent, we just released commercial with Andrew three days ago. To say everyone is stunned is an understatement. Such a great guy, I feel for him. One of my all time athletes to work with. Still waiting to get actual confirmation from his agent.
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Not a good look by the Indy faithful tonight.
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Not a good look by the Indy faithful tonight.
Yeah, Andrew not happy about it either.
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I'm not used to stunning retirements from players that don't play for the Lions
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Been texting with his agent, we just released commercial with Andrew three days ago. To say everyone is stunned is an understatement. Such a great guy, I feel for him. One of my all time athletes to work with. Still waiting to get actual confirmation from his agent.
Maybe Charlie Sheen is available? That was the worst marketing deal ever made until Andrew. Who inked those? Very Traditional Deal.
Squirmy...in Montana!
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Maybe Charlie Sheen is available? That was the worst marketing deal ever made until Andrew. Who inked those? Very Traditional Deal.
Squirmy...in Montana!
The guy who did the Charlie Sheen deal is now the number 2 marketing guy at Apple. Same guy that did many of those campaigns.
The Luck deal was fantastic, great partner and obviously the entire football world caught by surprise. Now time to make lemonade out of lemons.
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I feel like this Andrew Luck early retirement has been tossed around for years.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but I always remembered hearing that Luck wasn’t always 100% in on the NFL and his ultimate interests were elsewhere.
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I think Luck loved football when he was feeling well. I'm sure the last couple of years has sapped his joy of the game. At least he has alternatives.
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I feel like this Andrew Luck early retirement has been tossed around for years.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but I always remembered hearing that Luck wasn’t always 100% in on the NFL and his ultimate interests were elsewhere.
He has some other interests, made some smart investments with some of his endorsements instead of $$$ got equity which has been huge for him.
He is a smart guy and surrounded by smart people. His dad is the commissioner of the XFL....his agent is his uncle who used to be high up in pro soccer ranks here in the states. Andrew recently got married to his long time girlfriend, he will be fine but this was still a stunner. Yes he has been in a ton of pain. When we shot our commercial we had to be very careful because he was rehabilitating. A lot of these guys, they are banged up later in life and the money is so massive now, they are saying they don’t need to put their bodies through it. Still, walking away from $70 million guaranteed and a really good team is shocking. I was expecting this more like early 30’s. Wish nothing but the best for him and his wife. Truly an awesome guy.
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Maybe Charlie Sheen is available? That was the worst marketing deal ever made until Andrew. Who inked those? Very Traditional Deal.
I'm curious, are you suggesting people should have known about this? Players, media, teams calling this the biggest sports shock announcement since Magic retirement. NFL counterparts, no one knew until yesterday. They are in massive scramble mode. I'm not really sure what you are suggesting here.
By the way, the fact you remember to this day Charlie Sheen means it made an impact to you....great deal. That's what marketers and advertisers do, try to cut through and make an impression. Thank you for acknowledging that with your comments on a commercial from 12 years ago and again 7 years ago that STILL resonates with you and made that impression. BEAUTIFUL. EXACTLY WHAT WE ARE PAID TO DO. LOL ;D
As for Luck and his creative chops, he did some good work. Like movies or tv shows, some commercials work great, some not as great. Players are picked for many reasons...appeal, geographic pull, the team he plays for, position, etc. Some players more controversial, some less, but there is a method to the madness. He was an absolute pleasure.
https://www.youtube.com/v/_cI6Q3nZwi8
https://www.youtube.com/v/oh4LQQxuRgA
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Been texting with his agent, we just released commercial with Andrew three days ago. To say everyone is stunned is an understatement. Such a great guy, I feel for him. One of my all time athletes to work with. Still waiting to get actual confirmation from his agent.
Did we get confirmation yet that this is real?
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I'm sure the last couple of years has sapped his joy of the game. At least he has alternatives.
That's exactly what he said at his news conference, almost the exact words.
He is richer than most huge lottery winners, and he could get hired today for big-money jobs as an assistant coach or broadcaster, if that's what he wants. Or he can just sit around and live off his interest and dividends. He is in better financial shape than 99.9% of Americans. (You didn't say differently, Sultan. I'm just amplifying the thought.)
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Did we get confirmation yet that this is real?
LOL. Yup. His agent didn't expect it to break until today when they planned on communicating to all of his sponsors, etc, so they were in crazy response mode in real time. What a night and morning. Happy for Andrew and Nicole....and their first child on the way.
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https://mobile.twitter.com/HoggNFL/status/1167233861971058690?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fd-25347839393759369819.ampproject.net%2F1908231648370%2Fframe.html
Woah.
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https://mobile.twitter.com/HoggNFL/status/1167233861971058690?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fd-25347839393759369819.ampproject.net%2F1908231648370%2Fframe.html
Woah.
That’s funny. He only missed a “doink” by about 20 feet.
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That’s funny. He only missed a “doink” by about 20 feet.
The funniest part is I don’t think I’ve ever heard a commentator actively root for a kicker so hard in my life...and it’s a preseason extra point.
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https://mobile.twitter.com/HoggNFL/status/1167233861971058690?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fd-25347839393759369819.ampproject.net%2F1908231648370%2Fframe.html
Woah.
Looks like one of my tee shots.
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I really don't understand Nagy's obsession with the "double doink" this offseason. I think all it has done is unnecessarily amp up the pressure on whatever kicker they decide to go with. This shank wouldn't even be an issue otherwise.
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I really don't understand Nagy's obsession with the "double doink" this offseason. I think all it has done is unnecessarily amp up the pressure on whatever kicker they decide to go with. This shank wouldn't even be an issue otherwise.
100% agree, they’ve handled it terribly. This situation still puts me firmly in the jury is still out on Nagy. Lot of meatball over enthusiasts for him, I feel like I’m his biggest critic. The SI article on the kicking situation this offseason was interesting to say the least, lot of dumb stuff by the Bears.
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I really don't understand Nagy's obsession with the "double doink" this offseason. I think all it has done is unnecessarily amp up the pressure on whatever kicker they decide to go with. This shank wouldn't even be an issue otherwise.
Yup.
I was also listening to a recent PMT podcast with Morten Andersen and he said Cody Parkey used to practice hitting the uprights and said it's no wonder he hit them on that kick. Hilarious that he used to practice that.
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Skol Vikings, pals
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Skol Vikings, pals
Wide left!
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That’s funny. He only missed a “doink” by about 20 feet.
20 feet is being kind...
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Looks like one of my tee shots.
I've found its best just to over-compensate to the right
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Yup.
I was also listening to a recent PMT podcast with Morten Andersen and he said Cody Parkey used to practice hitting the uprights and said it's no wonder he hit them on that kick. Hilarious that he used to practice that.
I think Andersen has his old Bears kickers mixed up. Robbie Gould routinely practices to try to hit the uprights, Parkey didn’t.
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I think Andersen has his old Bears kickers mixed up. Robbie Gould routinely practices to try to hit the uprights, Parkey didn’t.
Got it. I don't know why you'd practice hitting the uprights. Just put a target on a net behind the goalposts right down the middle if you want to get that precise with your accuracy.
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Got it. I don't know why you'd practice hitting the uprights. Just put a target on a net behind the goalposts right down the middle if you want to get that precise with your accuracy.
Cause if you're a pros pro like Gould, I'm sure its like golf. You know there is wind, maybe a slight hook to some of your kicks depending on angle/trajectory, so if you can aim precisely, you can trust yourself to aim to a spot when the ball is going to move, instead of just kicking dead center. Kicking is a mental game and I'm sure there is plenty of confidence to be gained from trusting yourself to kick it exactly where you aim, instead of just get it in the middle.
I'm not going to doubt the methods of a top 3 guy in all time accuracy like I wouldn't doubt an uncommon practice shooting method of Steph Curry or Klay Thompson.
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I don't think it's rare for a kicker to practice hitting the uprights. Crosby was doing it at a practice I attended a few years ago. I think it's pretty much common practice these days.
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I don't think it's rare for a kicker to practice hitting the uprights. Crosby was doing it at a practice I attended a few years ago. I think it's pretty much common practice these days.
Do we know Crosby was actually trying to hit the uprights?
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Fair enough. Seems very dumb to me. I've always been a believer in making practice as game like as possible. Telling your kicker to intentionally miss an opportunity at points seems counter productive to me. It'd be like telling Markus, "You're too good at open 3 pointers, so I want you to work on hitting the front of the rim when you shoot from now on."
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Fair enough. Seems very dumb to me. I've always been a believer in making practice as game like as possible. Telling your kicker to intentionally miss an opportunity at points seems counter productive to me. It'd be like telling Markus, "You're too good at open 3 pointers, so I want you to work on hitting the front of the rim when you shoot from now on."
Like golf, I think kickers need different aimpoints to introduce some variety into the practice.
Personally, I'd like a moving clown face all over the space between the uprights.
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(https://media3.giphy.com/media/MH0z7nzfThkTm/source.gif)
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Fair enough. Seems very dumb to me. I've always been a believer in making practice as game like as possible. Telling your kicker to intentionally miss an opportunity at points seems counter productive to me. It'd be like telling Markus, "You're too good at open 3 pointers, so I want you to work on hitting the front of the rim when you shoot from now on."
But a shot is a shot in basketball. There is no wind. There is no left to right (and vice versa) movement on the ball on a shot depending on how or when it releases. They aren't intentionally trying to miss, its like a punter aiming at a corner pylon. Its the best target/alignment option for practicing hitting ball exactly where you want to go.
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Fair enough. Seems very dumb to me. I've always been a believer in making practice as game like as possible. Telling your kicker to intentionally miss an opportunity at points seems counter productive to me. It'd be like telling Markus, "You're too good at open 3 pointers, so I want you to work on hitting the front of the rim when you shoot from now on."
Guy who’s never kicked a football thinks he knows a better way to practice kicking a football.
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Guy who’s never kicked a football thinks he knows a better way to practice kicking a football.
Please bold the part where I say I know better. Curious to see.
The Hall of Fame kicker who was discussing it seemed to think similarly and even said he always practiced splitting the uprights. He probably knows a thing or two about kicking a football, but maybe not.
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Please bold the part where I say I know better. Curious to see.
You’ve labeled it dumb and counterproductive. Obviously you must know better.
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I think Andersen has his old Bears kickers mixed up. Robbie Gould routinely practices to try to hit the uprights, Parkey didn’t.
Parkey did.
Though it's hard to find the video lately. Seems to be erased most places.
https://www.instagram.com/p/BsUL8LGAkUy/?hl=en
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Fair enough. Seems very dumb to me. I've always been a believer in making practice as game like as possible. Telling your kicker to intentionally miss an opportunity at points seems counter productive to me. It'd be like telling Markus, "You're too good at open 3 pointers, so I want you to work on hitting the front of the rim when you shoot from now on."
so what's your advice? i mean, just to tell us how you do it?
many basketball players do aim for the front of the rim, some aim for the back. probably not how you do it though
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Ahhhh, senseless arguing. Must mean there is some meaningful football on the horizon.
Glad to be back.
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You’ve labeled it dumb and counterproductive. Obviously you must know better.
Ahh. So you missed the word “seems” or the phrase “seems to be” multiple times. I see how it could be confused as “I know better than the pros” without that, then.
Again, seems as the the Hall of Fame kicker would agree with what I’d think, but maybe the guy looking for work knows better than the Hall of Famer.
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Ahh. So you missed the word “seems” or the phrase “seems to be” multiple times. I see how it could be confused as “I know better than the pros” without that, then.
Again, seems as the the Hall of Fame kicker would agree with what I’d think, but maybe the guy looking for work knows better than the Hall of Famer.
🙄🙄🙄🙄
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🙄🙄🙄🙄
Agreed. Reading comprehension is important.
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Texans are that guy in your fantasy league that makes trades just to make trades.
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Texans are that guy in your fantasy league that makes trades just to make trades.
They probably saw Luck retire and realized they set Watson up to get battered yet again. I get what they were doing stacking up OL, but they just overpaid for everything in a panic and got fleeced
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Texans showing why having an actual GM is a good idea.
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Miami tanking big time. Has a TON of draft picks in the coming years.
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That Clowney trade is so bad, the more details that emerge, the worse it looks for the Texans.
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They probably saw Luck retire and realized they set Watson up to get battered yet again. I get what they were doing stacking up OL, but they just overpaid for everything in a panic and got fleeced
The Tunsil deal sure seems like a lose-lose.
Texans way overpaid for good, but not great, LT,and the Phins are tanking for a QB who will enter the league behind an atrocious offensive line.
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They’re saying on ESPN that the Texans never talked with Tunsil about an extension, which is fairly routine in this situation.
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They’re saying on ESPN that the Texans never talked with Tunsil about an extension, which is fairly routine in this situation.
The guy who’s never been a GM of a sports franchise saying he knows better than the GM of an NFL team.
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The guy who’s never been a GM of a sports franchise saying he knows better than the GM of an NFL team.
1. I was just reporting what was said.
2. The Texans don’t have a GM
3. Living rent free in your head.
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1. I was just reporting what was said.
2. The Texans don’t have a GM
3. Living rent free in your head.
Very different than reporting what a HOF kicker said about Parkey. Got it.
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My son, a huge Bears fan, was hoping the Panthers would cut the rookie kicker they brought in, Joey Slye, who had been booming kicks all preseason. But instead, the Panthers put longtime kicker Graham Gano on season-long IR, and Slye is now my team's main man.
I am one who thinks preseason means absolutely nothing, but that obviously wasn't the case for Slye. I just hope he kicks like that when it counts.
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My son, a huge Bears fan, was hoping the Panthers would cut the rookie kicker they brought in, Joey Slye, who had been booming kicks all preseason. But instead, the Panthers put longtime kicker Graham Gano on season-long IR, and Slye is now my team's main man.
I am one who thinks preseason means absolutely nothing, but that obviously wasn't the case for Slye. I just hope he kicks like that when it counts.
Preseason is the perfect time for kickers to work on their draws and fades
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Another insanely bad deal by Jerrah. 6 years...LOL.....$50M guaranteed....to a RB. LOL
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Another insanely bad deal by Jerrah. 6 years...LOL.....$50M guaranteed....to a RB. LOL
Not only that, but it is a six year *extension* from his rookie deal that still has two years left. And Jones bargained against himself the entire time. What a doofus.
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Not only that, but it is a six year *extension* from his rookie deal that still has two years left. And Jones bargained against himself the entire time. What a doofus.
That’s my Jerrah.....an old man desperate to win a title before he dies.
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Miami tanking big time. Has a TON of draft picks in the coming years.
#trusttheprocess #finsup
But yeah, this team will be atrocious for a bit - but I prefer that to limping to another 6 wins with Tannehill
The Tunsil deal sure seems like a lose-lose.
Texans way overpaid for good, but not great, LT,and the Phins are tanking for a QB who will enter the league behind an atrocious offensive line.
That's true, but I hope they wouldn't just throw Tua/Herbert into the fire for a team that wins 4 games in 2020. The way this is setting up might constructively ruin what is left of Josh Rosen forever, though.
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Everyone knew Jerry wasn’t gonna let Zeke sit out the season, right?
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Everyone knew Jerry wasn’t gonna let Zeke sit out the season, right?
No but at least his son publically postured like a competant negotiator. Zeke has TWO years left on his deal. The bargaining position was pretty much all with the Cowboys. Yet they give him an extension with $50 million guaranteed?
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Everyone knew Jerry wasn’t gonna let Zeke sit out the season, right?
I think he was going to be signed to an extension anyways. The holdout was likely so he could spend time in a foreign country where regulation of PEDs is weak, where it is easier to avoid any testing, and many new exotic and difficult to detect PEDs are readily available.
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WTF are the Raiders doing? A couple weeks after Mayock saying things are good with Antonio Brown after his helmet saga, they decide to fine him $54,000 for missing two practices during the saga, which causes Mayock and Brown to get into an argument. Now they may suspend Brown for getting in the argument.
You traded and signed a guy who has a history of being flighty. Now you are going to clamp down hard on the guy for acting like that? Do you really think that's going to help?
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WTF are the Raiders doing? A couple weeks after Mayock saying things are good with Antonio Brown after his helmet saga, they decide to fine him $54,000 for missing two practices during the saga, which causes Mayock and Brown to get into an argument. Now they may suspend Brown for getting in the argument.
You traded and signed a guy who has a history of being flighty. Now you are going to clamp down hard on the guy for acting like that? Do you really think that's going to help?
The irony.
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WTF are the Raiders doing? A couple weeks after Mayock saying things are good with Antonio Brown after his helmet saga, they decide to fine him $54,000 for missing two practices during the saga, which causes Mayock and Brown to get into an argument. Now they may suspend Brown for getting in the argument.
You traded and signed a guy who has a history of being flighty. Now you are going to clamp down hard on the guy for acting like that? Do you really think that's going to help?
Its all so stupid and so very Raiders. You know what Brown is about, you know he's a diva and he's temperamental, how do you handle him so ham fisted? Say what you want about Brown's attitude or off the field antics, but he's stayed out of trouble otherwise and he's never let it truly affect his on-field production. There was rumblings of unhappiness and locker room trouble last year, and he still lead the league in and put up a career high in TDs and another 1250+ yard season. If Mayock is trying to power play and let everyone know he runs a tight ship, why make this move? Its moronic.
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I think he was going to be signed to an extension anyways. The holdout was likely so he could spend time in a foreign country where regulation of PEDs is weak, where it is easier to avoid any testing, and many new exotic and difficult to detect PEDs are readily available.
That’s quite the story...and it was likely you say....
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So Bears gonna have picks #32 and 33 next year. I like it.
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So Bears gonna have picks #32 and 33 next year. I like it.
Pick 33 will be tough, as the Fins, Washington, Arizona, and Cincy are all going to be awful.
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So Bears gonna have picks #32 and 33 next year. I like it.
Good joke.
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In a weird way, this actually works out pretty well for the Raiders.
They have legit reason to suspend him for week 1, a winnable home game against the Broncos. Once that happens, through a quirk of the CBA, they can cut him at any point this season without paying any of his future guarantees. So, basically, they pay him week-to week for as long as they will have him.
I imagine they'd rather not have to deal with this at all, but all-in-all they now hold a lot of leverage over AB. And he has 29 million reasons to get in line pronto.
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In a weird way, this actually works out pretty well for the Raiders.
They have legit reason to suspend him for week 1, a winnable home game against the Broncos. Once that happens, through a quirk of the CBA, they can cut him at any point this season without paying any of his future guarantees. So, basically, they pay him week-to week for as long as they will have him.
I imagine they'd rather not have to deal with this at all, but all-in-all they now hold a lot of leverage over AB. And he has 29 million reasons to get in line pronto.
Well ok then. That makes some sense.
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In a weird way, this actually works out pretty well for the Raiders.
They have legit reason to suspend him for week 1, a winnable home game against the Broncos. Once that happens, through a quirk of the CBA, they can cut him at any point this season without paying any of his future guarantees. So, basically, they pay him week-to week for as long as they will have him.
I imagine they'd rather not have to deal with this at all, but all-in-all they now hold a lot of leverage over AB. And he has 29 million reasons to get in line pronto.
Very interesting. But knowing the Raiders, Mayock and Davis will cut him tonight and blow that advantage
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Nagy dressed as Halas was pretty cool.
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james cornelison-what a classic he has become
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Pick 33 will be tough, as the Fins, Washington, Arizona, and Cincy are all going to be awful.
I feel better about the Cardinals than most. Tough out. 6-10, but going the right direction.
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NFL 100 logo looks like it was designed by a middle schooler...back in 1995. Honestly that’s what they come up with?
(http://content.sportslogos.net/news/2018/10/NFL-anniversary-logos-50-75-100.png)
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Man that call on the field that made the packers burn their second challenge was as bad as a call as there will be. That wasn’t remotely close to a catch.
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Better team won for sure tonight. Pack D can play. Not withstanding, I stay fully committed to my thoughts on Matt Nagy.
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I’m bullish on this defense. The money paid off tonight.
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Better team won for sure tonight. Pack D can play. Not withstanding, I stay fully committed to my thoughts on Matt Nagy.
Is def good or Bears offense that bad? Early, tough to tell....one boring football game.
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Boring only if you lose!
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Boring only if you lose!
No vested interest in either team....just a boring football game.
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I don't recall ever seeing a 1st and 40 before. I mean, I'm sure it has happened, but talk about self-inflicted wounds...
Rodgers had a lot of really poor throws tonight but the D bailed him out. Not sure that's happened since the days of Charles Woodson.
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I don't recall ever seeing a 1st and 40 before. I mean, I'm sure it has happened, but talk about self-inflicted wounds...
Rodgers had a lot of really poor throws tonight but the D bailed him out. Not sure that's happened since the days of Charles Woodson.
How 'bout that throw by Rodgers on 2-and-5 with about 2 minutes to play? Very close to getting intercepted deep in GB territory. That was Cutler-like ... as was Trubisky's end-zone INT.
But obviously I would take Rodgers any day of the week. He's got a lot of new swirling around him. That was a really bad pass, though.
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It's like Cutler never left.
Were we saying the Bears own pick will be #33?
Didn't think either of these teams would be overly good this year going into the season. Didn't get to watch the game, but from what I can tell when I sit down to watch the DVR tomorrow after work I'm not sure there will be much to change my mind. 3 wide receivers hit the box score for the Packers, and one had a single catch. Brutal.
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I don't recall ever seeing a 1st and 40 before. I mean, I'm sure it has happened, but talk about self-inflicted wounds
2 of the 3 were on Leno too, which is even better. Clean it the f up.
Jokes aside, Cutler for all his faults was twice the QB that Trubisky is as this point. He tried to do too much and force throws, where as I don’t have an f-ing clue what Trubisky is seeing out there. He’s flat out missing wide open guys and lofting prayers to anyone he can. I really liked his pocket presence and footwork to get out of situations...but then he would burn all that positivity with some dumbass throw. I was beyond disappointed with him as well as Nagy’s gameplan tonight. Defense looked great as expected
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Sloppy games from both offenses. When you don’t play players in preseason, this is what you get. As a result defenses are way ahead of offenses early.
A bad look for Nagy’s preparation, though. He was again trying to be too cute when he should have been concentrating base on offense. The Packers won because AR knows who to take chances with some of those throws. When Mitch tried to do it, he telegraphed it. That’s the difference.
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I don't recall ever seeing a 1st and 40 before. I mean, I'm sure it has happened, but talk about self-inflicted wounds...
Watch more Lion's games.
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Bears had 8 months to gameplan. They traded up for Montgomery, one carry in the second half. They traded up for Miller, one target all night. Cohen, zero carries.
Mitch absolutely sucked. This competitive window will close really fast. Pace deserves to be fired if Mitch stays like this.
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Watch more Lion's games.
HA! :D
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My takeaway. The Packers look like they're installing a completely new offense and hadn't faced any live bullets yet (both true). The D was the best I've seen in my memory, every bit the equal of the Bears outstanding group, and a reminder of why guys like Clay, Perry and Daniels needed to move on.
The Bears? Maybe the Superbowl hype in Chicago is a tad premature. That's okay. They still have 1985. ;D
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Bears had 8 months to gameplan. They traded up for Montgomery, one carry in the second half. They traded up for Miller, one target all night. Cohen, zero carries.
Mitch absolutely sucked. This competitive window will close really fast. Pace deserves to be fired if Mitch stays like this.
Some of these quotes by Tramon Williams are brutal.
https://deadspin.com/tramon-williams-adds-further-humiliation-to-mitchell-tr-1837920520
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Bears had 8 months to gameplan. They traded up for Montgomery, one carry in the second half. They traded up for Miller, one target all night. Cohen, zero carries.
Mitch absolutely sucked. This competitive window will close really fast. Pace deserves to be fired if Mitch stays like this.
I sent a text in my group chat with a couple friends, including a Bears fan and 3 Packers fans, saying that I think Pace is really good but the move to trade up 1 spot to take a QB that would've been there many picks later, and take him above Watson and Mahommes, could hold the Bears back for years.
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Some of these quotes by Tramon Williams are brutal.
https://deadspin.com/tramon-williams-adds-further-humiliation-to-mitchell-tr-1837920520
Those quotes are 100% true too. Pack defensive gameplan was great, they looked prepared, well coached, I was very impressed.
Mitch is a deer in headlights. If that stage was too big for him last night, that’s a major problem. This is his third year, we’ll past kid gloves.
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I sent a text in my group chat with a couple friends, including a Bears fan and 3 Packers fans, saying that I think Pace is really good but the move to trade up 1 spot to take a QB that would've been there many picks later, and take him above Watson and Mahommes, could hold the Bears back for years.
+Infinity
Trading up for Mitch when he didn’t need to? Bad.
Seeing Watson and Mahomes both going a few picks later? Fireable.
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The Bears? Maybe the Superbowl hype in Chicago is a tad premature. That's okay. They still have 1985. ;D
BTW, When are they going to move on from the 1985 stuff. Getting to the point of being pathetic.
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+Infinity
Trading up for Mitch when he didn’t need to? Bad.
Seeing Watson and Mahomes both going a few picks later? Fireable.
Trading up was stupid, but everyone had those players rated differently. Its easy to say in hindsight that Mahomes and Watson are the better QBs.
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Trading up was stupid, but everyone had those players rated differently. Its easy to say in hindsight that Mahomes and Watson are the better QBs.
While Mahomes in particular and Watson to an extent weren't considered to be the immediate impact players they have been, I don't think anybody but the Bears thought Trubisky was the sure fire, need to get QB in this draft. Some thought that he could wind up being the best QB in the draft yes, but need to move up 1 spot because everyone else wants to move up to get him? No. He started like 10 college games for goodness sake.
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While Mahomes in particular and Watson to an extent weren't considered to be the immediate impact players they have been, I don't think anybody but the Bears thought Trubisky was the sure fire, need to get QB in this draft. Some thought that he could wind up being the best QB in the draft yes, but need to move up 1 spot because everyone else wants to move up to get him? No. He started like 10 college games for goodness sake.
agree. I don't think you can fire a gm for the other two doing well. Situation, coaching and offensive systems also play into it. Goff is a perfect example of that.
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Impressed with the Packers' D yesterday.
Still, the Bears were so inept offensively -- Trubisky terrible, game plan poor, penalties galore, dropped passes, etc -- that it's not easy to judge.
Over the next couple months, the Packers will face the likes of Cousins, Wentz, Prescott, Stafford, Mahomes, Rivers and Newton (not to mention several fine RBs, led by Elliott), so we'll get a much better idea about the GB D.
Any time the Packers beat the Bears, though, it's extra special for them. It was a division win on the road, and 5 of the next 6 are at home. Very nice win.
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+Infinity
Trading up for Mitch when he didn’t need to? Bad.
Seeing Watson and Mahomes both going a few picks later? Fireable.
I usually agree with you on Bears matters, but I diverge here. Pace has done such a masterful job with the team and roster otherwise. The Trubisky thing is a giant black eye so far, and trading up to do it is even worse.
However, his 2017 draft also produced Eddie Jackson and Tarik Cohen. He got Roquan Smith with a high pick in 2018, and while its early, James Daniels and Bilal Nichols all look to be starters with a lot of upside, and Anthony Miller still is potentially very exciting. And David Montgomery looks like the real deal. He's been good in the last few drafts other than one blunder. That plus the Mack trade, free agency moves. Fireable is far too severe
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I usually agree with you on Bears matters, but I diverge here. Pace has done such a masterful job with the team and roster otherwise. The Trubisky thing is a giant black eye so far, and trading up to do it is even worse.
However, his 2017 draft also produced Eddie Jackson and Tarik Cohen. He got Roquan Smith with a high pick in 2018, and while its early, James Daniels and Bilal Nichols all look to be starters with a lot of upside, and Anthony Miller still is potentially very exciting. And David Montgomery looks like the real deal. He's been good in the last few drafts other than one blunder. That plus the Mack trade, free agency moves. Fireable is far too severe
My counter is none of the above matters if you get the QB wrong.
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My counter is none of the above matters if you get the QB wrong.
Right. You don't fire Pace the second he trades up to take Trubisky. But that pick alone can lead to what could have been a great team achieving nothing of substance, which can lead to a GM being fired.
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I think a vast majority of people if told before yesterday’s game that Rodgers and the Pack were held to ten points, probably 95% of people would have said that’s a Bears win.
I’m Nagy’s biggest critic, and have been, and last night was embarrassing for him.
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I think a vast majority of people if told before yesterday’s game that Rodgers and the Pack were held to ten points, probably 95% of people would have said that’s a Bears win.
I’m Nagy’s biggest critic, and have been, and last night was embarrassing for him.
Seems someone spent too much of the offseason reading press clippings about his own offensive ingenuity.
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I think a vast majority of people if told before yesterday’s game that Rodgers and the Pack were held to ten points, probably 95% of people would have said that’s a Bears win.
I’m Nagy’s biggest critic, and have been, and last night was embarrassing for him.
Meanwhile I've been a big Nagy fan and I was f-ing disgusted with him last night. Where to begin...
-David Montgomery. He's been really exciting in preseason, trade up to get him, hes gonna be the guy. Yet you have Mike Davis getting way more looks and touches? Mike Davis who was literally brought in to be the 3rd RB? Montgomery looked solid in the first half, broke some tackles, was productive...gets 1 touch in the second half. Absurd.
-Tarik Cohen...is he just a slot reciever now? Patterson had more rushing attempts than a guy who averaged 6 carries for 25 yds a game last year to open up his receiving abilities as well.
-Running game in general. Trubisky was terrible and inaccurate, its a 4 pt game...and they dont try to establish the run at all. Baffling
-Kicking...Piniero calmly drills the first mid range FG attempt he gets so Nagy's response is to...show no further faith in him. Glad to see this kicking boogeyman will be here all year.
Playcalling overall was awful. Mitch was awful. Just terrible. Totally agree that Nagy was too confident in himself and thus got super cute and "clever" and paid for it. He showed the ability to rebound game to game last year, but an inauspicious start for sure.
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[...]
-Kicking...Piniero calmly drills the first mid range FG attempt he gets so Nagy's response is to...show no further faith in him. Glad to see this kicking boogeyman will be here all year.
[...]
The kicking thing is Nagy's white whale. It hasn't broken him (yet) but it's put serious cracks in his foundation.
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Meanwhile I've been a big Nagy fan and I was f-ing disgusted with him last night. Where to begin...
-David Montgomery. He's been really exciting in preseason, trade up to get him, hes gonna be the guy. Yet you have Mike Davis getting way more looks and touches? Mike Davis who was literally brought in to be the 3rd RB? Montgomery looked solid in the first half, broke some tackles, was productive...gets 1 touch in the second half. Absurd.
-Tarik Cohen...is he just a slot reciever now? Patterson had more rushing attempts than a guy who averaged 6 carries for 25 yds a game last year to open up his receiving abilities as well.
-Running game in general. Trubisky was terrible and inaccurate, its a 4 pt game...and they dont try to establish the run at all. Baffling
-Kicking...Piniero calmly drills the first mid range FG attempt he gets so Nagy's response is to...show no further faith in him. Glad to see this kicking boogeyman will be here all year.
Playcalling overall was awful. Mitch was awful. Just terrible. Totally agree that Nagy was too confident in himself and thus got super cute and "clever" and paid for it. He showed the ability to rebound game to game last year, but an inauspicious start for sure.
Just got off the phone with my Bears-fan son, and he raised many of the same points, especially about Montgomery and the running game.
My main contribution (even though I'm neither a Bears fan nor Bears hater) was: "Look, if you trust the kicker enough to have him on the team, you have to let him try that field goal to pull you within 1 point rather than go for it on 4th-and-10. If you don't trust him enough, cut him and get another effen kicker. The guy put one right through the uprights earlier; how about building up his confidence instead of practically screaming, 'We don't effen trust you!'"
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Double edged sword on the kicking. If he misses the 50+ harder, media and fans will rip him (the kicker) apart.
I knew Nagy was piss poor last night when he called for a Patterson single back dive on 3rd and 1.
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I just so enjoy reading you guys in Bear nation right now. Dish, I literally spit my coffee this morning when you showed up immediately in my FB feed with 'Fire Nagy!'
Oh, and to answer the question of how long the Bears can milk the 1985 story, I'll quote the great Bill Swerski.... 'Moving on.' ;D
(https://static.clubs.nfl.com/image/private/t_editorial_landscape_8_desktop_mobile/packers/vybpnyl1h62knjctt68y.jpg)
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Double edged sword on the kicking. If he misses the 50+ harder, media and fans will rip him (the kicker) apart.
But the second sentence should never be part of the thought process of a coach. If he has the leg and the situation calls for it, then you try the FG most of the time. If you think "well this is kind of long and I don't want the crowd to get on him," well shame on you for making this as big of an issue as you made it in the off season.
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I was completely impressed with the Packer’s defense.
Last year they had the worst safeties in the league. Last night they were outstanding.
Last year the OLBs were brutally bad. Last night they were outstanding.
Last night, Kenny Clark played at an all-pro level.
That being said, Kevin King and Jaire Alexander are the keys to their success. Both have Pro Bowl ability. If they stay healthy, GB wins the North and are a legit SB contender.
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Double edged sword on the kicking. If he misses the 50+ harder, media and fans will rip him (the kicker) apart.
It's one thing if the choice was between that FG and 4th-and-2. But it was 4th-and-10, and the offense had shown zero signs that it was capable of converting that. Plus, the K had nailed a FG earlier in the game that easily would have been good from 55.
If you're gonna worry so much about what second-guessing fans think that it changes the way you coach ... sorry, you shouldn't be a coach.
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I was just driving back home from ORD and listening to Parkins & Mac, Parkins made a reference I’ve thought of before, how Nagy and Joe Maddon have similarities.
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Ratings were solid:
https://deadline.com/2019/09/green-bay-packers-nfl-kickoff-game-ratings-rise-nbc-meek-mills-1202713643/
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Ratings were solid:
https://deadline.com/2019/09/green-bay-packers-nfl-kickoff-game-ratings-rise-nbc-meek-mills-1202713643/
Viewers fell asleep and left the Nielsen box on instead of changing channels.
I am a diehard Bears fans as are others...and I know the majority here are the same on the Packers side. But dear lord, this was up there with the MU v. tOSU game on the excitement meter.
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lol
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I was just driving back home from ORD and listening to Parkins & Mac, Parkins made a reference I’ve thought of before, how Nagy and Joe Maddon have similarities.
Still like OB and Hamp with Koz much better. They are my go-to postgame Bears commentators. Only downside is the loss of Doug Buffone a couple of years ago. Those two together were g-r-e-a-t!
Am a Bears season ticket holder (and die-hard Packers fan) and went to the game. Actually was exciting to watch because you knew sooner or later Aaron Rodgers would again be Aaron Rodgers. One of the things I saw was that when the offense was running plays left over from the McCarthy era (the "five-wide," for example), they did seem in sync. The Packers will be fine.
The Bears have some issues. Most are correctable. I want Trubisky to succeed because having two strong teams in the GB/Chi rivalry would be fun. Trubisky also is a good guy and a good Catholic boy LOL! But he has a way to go yet!
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Raiders release Antonio Brown.
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Raiders release Antonio Brown.
He'll probably end up with the Patriots.
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He'll probably end up with the Patriots.
The Jimmy Butler of the NFL???
Which team will he blow up next? Hopefully, it IS the Pats.
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I wouldn’t mind one bit if the Packers reached out to him.
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I wouldn’t mind one bit if the Packers reached out to him.
As a Bears fan, I hope the Packers do too.
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As a Bears fan, I hope the Packers do too.
I released him from his contract with us this February.....buyer beware
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He'll probably end up with the Patriots.
Just agreed to terms.
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So the Patriots win another Super Bowl. Everybody who goes there knows that B and B are the alphas and that playing diva-ball is not tolerated. He goes silent, catches 70 balls, NE wins a Super Bowl. If he doesn't go silent, he gets cut again.
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Just agreed to terms.
That was quick. Hmmmm...
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That was quick. Hmmmm...
Yeah. Exactly.
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Calm down Lamar Jackson
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That was quick. Hmmmm...
https://www.foxnews.com/sports/antonio-brown-social-media-consultants-accelerate-release-raiders-report
The NFL needs to investigate this. I said right away he would go to the Patriots, because this whole thing seemed orchestrated. Pretty sure there was tampering going on here.
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Per twitter, dolphins players trying to jump ship ASAP
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Well, good to see the Lions remain the Lions.
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So the Patriots win another Super Bowl. Everybody who goes there knows that B and B are the alphas and that playing diva-ball is not tolerated. He goes silent, catches 70 balls, NE wins a Super Bowl. If he doesn't go silent, he gets cut again.
Maybe Brady deflated A.B.'s balls.
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https://www.foxnews.com/sports/antonio-brown-social-media-consultants-accelerate-release-raiders-report
The NFL needs to investigate this. I said right away he would go to the Patriots, because this whole thing seemed orchestrated. Pretty sure there was tampering going on here.
There is zero doubt in my mind. Rosenhaus and an organization well known, established, and proven to play in every grey area possible? Its not even sour grapes, this is just the kind of crap that makes sports uninteresting. Very possible the moves were in place the minute Brown got out of Pittsburgh. Maybe not specifically to the Pats, but "lets make a fuss, force a move, and pick our spot".
Per twitter, dolphins players trying to jump ship ASAP
Can you blame them? Flores is a joke. That was as bad an effort and performance as you could see from a team, and there is nothing to imply they are going to tick up. They have an INCREDIBLE haul of picks coming up, they are brilliantly placed to stock up with fresh young talent, there is no incentive organizationally to win now, especially with a coach who has lost the locker room.
Other thoughts from the day...
-Dak with an all-time "Bish betta have my money!" performance. WOW. He had a perfect QBR through the 3rd.
-Lamar Jackson looked fantastic. Obviously the Dolphins are a joke, but still, clearly improved in the offseason and started with a statement.
-Chiefs look tough as ever, but the Jags lost most of their promise quickly. Yeesh.
And finally...
Tomlin is done, dead, and buried. He's a lame duck and we're a week in. Holy hell have I never seen a worse game plan against a team you know well in a stadium you struggle in. Down 17, you're running tosses from shotgun on 3rd and 1, using EVERY...LAST...SECOND of the playclock, showing no imagination. Then kicking a FG on 4th and short to start the 3rd quarter...just an absolute embarrassment.
Pittsburgh is a proud and storied organization, but they will have to replace a coach and a borderline HOF coach for the first time in a decade. And Conner is good but not Bell. And Juju has a ton of potential but will have some growing pains becoming a #1, especially when his #2 and #3 cant catch to save their lives. The natives will be restless. Not fun.
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There is zero doubt in my mind. Rosenhaus and an organization well known, established, and proven to play in every grey area possible? Its not even sour grapes, this is just the kind of crap that makes sports uninteresting. Very possible the moves were in place the minute Brown got out of Pittsburgh. Maybe not specifically to the Pats, but "lets make a fuss, force a move, and pick our spot".
Yeah but why sign the contract with the Raiders? I think this all started when they levied the fines. This was a pretty good read and I think it makes some sense.
https://deadspin.com/why-good-organizations-know-how-to-handle-players-like-1837929843
And sure Rosenhaus may have been playing in the grey areas after that, but what is the NFL going to do?
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Maybe Brady deflated A.B.'s balls.
(https://media.giphy.com/media/ytTYwIlbD1FBu/giphy.gif)
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Yeah but why sign the contract with the Raiders? I think this all started when they levied the fines. This was a pretty good read and I think it makes some sense.
https://deadspin.com/why-good-organizations-know-how-to-handle-players-like-1837929843
And sure Rosenhaus may have been playing in the grey areas after that, but what is the NFL going to do?
It's a very difficult situation for the Raiders.
One the one hand, the fines almost certainly escalated matters and led to the ultimate resolution of this clusterf*ck.
On the other hand, they needed to impose those fines in order to protect themselves from a $30 million mistake and (I imagine they were thinking) provide some small measure of leverage over the player. The fines allowed the Raiders to release AB without paying a dime of his guarantee. Don't fine him, let him play week one, and now you're on the hook for those guarantees whether Brown shows up or not.
I will say, though I don't think a ton of him as a coach, I'm impressed at how Tomlin managed to keep him under wraps for so long.
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Yeah but why sign the contract with the Raiders? I think this all started when they levied the fines. This was a pretty good read and I think it makes some sense.
https://deadspin.com/why-good-organizations-know-how-to-handle-players-like-1837929843
And sure Rosenhaus may have been playing in the grey areas after that, but what is the NFL going to do?
The article I linked says he had already contacted a media consulting agency on how to force a release through media posts when he got his very first fine. He knew that missing the required practices would result in a fine, so not sure how this wasn't part of his big picture, plan.
There is also the fact that the Patriots wanted him, tried to trade for him (offering more than the Raiders), but Pittsburgh refused. Brown also wanted to play for the Patriots.
Even stranger, the NFL has said they will not investigate.
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Even stranger, the NFL has said they will not investigate.
Of course they didn't.
The New England Patriots are the 21st Century answer to the Green Bay Packers of the 1960s. Investigating Bill Bellichek would be akin to Pete Rozelle investigating Vince Lombardi in the 1960s. You just don't do it.
Everybody who hates the Patriots (and there are many) hates the Patriots for the same reason people from across the country hated the Packers in the 1960s. They win. They have a swagger others thought of as arrogance.
Both had very "obnoxious" head coaches.
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https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/10/us/nfl-antonio-brown-lawsuit/index.html
Wonder what the NFL will do about this.
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https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/10/us/nfl-antonio-brown-lawsuit/index.html
Wonder what the NFL will do about this.
They farmed this one out to the NCAA investigators. They will crack the whip really hard in 2032 when the next lunar eclipse is due.
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https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/10/us/nfl-antonio-brown-lawsuit/index.html
Wonder what the NFL will do about this.
Her claims already might have holes in it. He might actually get some sympathy out of this if some of the other stuff coming out tonight is true. If.
Some additional information that wasn’t in most of the articles
https://mobile.twitter.com/DarrenHeitner/status/1171584983280095233?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1171584983280095233&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fheavy.com%2Fsports%2F2019%2F09%2Fantonio-brown-sexual-assault-patriots-statement%2F
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Her claims already might have holes in it. He might actually get some sympathy out of this if some of the other stuff coming out tonight is true. If.
Some additional information that wasn’t in most of the articles
https://mobile.twitter.com/DarrenHeitner/status/1171584983280095233?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1171584983280095233&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fheavy.com%2Fsports%2F2019%2F09%2Fantonio-brown-sexual-assault-patriots-statement%2F
Squirmy. You were smart to release him (and Charlie).
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Squirmy. You were smart to release him (and Charlie).
I had nothing to due with Charlie, and yes I did release AB. Smart or lucky....maybe a bit of both.
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Definitely a lot of holes in this story. The whole watching tv while ab did his business behind her and finished on her back just makes no sense.
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Definitely a lot of holes in this story. The whole watching tv while ab did his business behind her and finished on her back just makes no sense.
Interesting that you poke holes in her story, but don't address the holes in AB's. Namely that the accuser has text messages backing up her story, and that contradict his.
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I hope that if AB is guilty he is punished accordingly and if he did nothing wrong he is not incorrectly charged.
I also am glad that AB is not on the Green Bay Packers, whether he is guilty of this or not.
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Interesting that you poke holes in her story, but don't address the holes in AB's. Namely that the accuser has text messages backing up her story, and that contradict his.
Just as he has text messages and eye witnesses of her being so upset about this that she continually reached out, went to his place countless times, offered to be his trainer, etc ....
Lots of holes....he said she said....so guy must be guilty, eh?
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Just as he has text messages and eye witnesses of her being so upset about this that she continually reached out, went to his place countless times, offered to be his trainer, etc ....
Lots of holes....he said she said....so guy must be guilty, eh?
Based on what we know right now, which is essentially nothing, there is supposedly physical evidence (texts) consistent with her assault story of him masturbating in her presence and ejaculating on her without permission.
Even if all the rest turns out to be false, and even if it was true they were in a consensual relationship, and even if she reached out to him after the fact, that act, and the associated evidence are sufficient to prove criminal assault.
Let's see what is all out there. Still early in this whole news story. But if she does have a text where he admits that act, and apologizes for it (as she claims), then AB is in for a world of hurt.
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Of course they didn't.
The New England Patriots are the 21st Century answer to the Green Bay Packers of the 1960s. Investigating Bill Bellichek would be akin to Pete Rozelle investigating Vince Lombardi in the 1960s. You just don't do it.
Everybody who hates the Patriots (and there are many) hates the Patriots for the same reason people from across the country hated the Packers in the 1960s. They win. They have a swagger others thought of as arrogance.
Both had very "obnoxious" head coaches.
That’s not the reason.
According to an interview today with Mike Florio, it’s because neither the Raiders nor the Steelers are making a big deal of it. Furthermore this stuff happens all the time so without a complaint they’re really not compelled to investigate.
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Because Rodger let’s the Pats get away with anything they want.
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That’s not the reason.
According to an interview today with Mike Florio, it’s because neither the Raiders nor the Steelers are making a big deal of it. Furthermore this stuff happens all the time so without a complaint they’re really not compelled to investigate.
Does it?
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Yes. There is a ton of tampering (by the letter of the law) happening all the time in the NFL. Most teams, and the league in general, really don't care that much because everyone is engaged in in.
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I've got a bad feeling about the Bears at Denver on Sunday. 10 day layoff, going to altitude, probably hot that day, just seems ripe for a disaster.
Also, I'm tired of the Bears making dumb PR decisions under Nagy. Telling Mitch not to talk about the Packer game today at his weekly press conference is not just dumb, but makes the Bears PR team and Nagy look stupid.
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I've got a bad feeling about the Bears at Denver on Sunday. 10 day layoff, going to altitude, probably hot that day, just seems ripe for a disaster.
Also, I'm tired of the Bears making dumb PR decisions under Nagy. Telling Mitch not to talk about the Packer game today at his weekly press conference is not just dumb, but makes the Bears PR team and Nagy look stupid.
I agree that the Bears are ripe for an upset, but I just don't think Flacco and Denver are the ones to do it. That is one bad team.
But if it would happen, the Bears would be in huge trouble this year.
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Because Rodger let’s the Pats get away with anything they want.
THe main reason people hate Pats fans outside of their success is their whining. 6 rings. Modern dynasty and unsurpassed success. Some shady skirting of rules and grey area that they've gotten away without much punishment. Yet, most Pats fans, especially the loud ones, have a victim complex and think everyone, including Goodell and the league, are out to get them. Its preposterous. They are arrogant and yet fragile as hell.
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Also, I'm tired of the Bears making dumb PR decisions under Nagy. Telling Mitch not to talk about the Packer game today at his weekly press conference is not just dumb, but makes the Bears PR team and Nagy look stupid.
I don’t see it as a bad PRmove, but rather that they question Mitch’s mental toughness.
I see Mitch as equal to Ryan Tannyhill at best. But if the bears are worried about what goes on in his head, they could be headed for disaster.
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We’re less than a week removed from discussing the possibility of the Bears finishing the season with the best record in the NFL. Now we’re thinking they might lose at Denver.
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We’re less than a week removed from discussing the possibility of the Bears finishing the season with the best record in the NFL. Now we’re thinking they might lose at Denver.
Methinks the correct prediction is somewhere in the middle. They will have some regression from last year, but nothing major.
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We’re less than a week removed from discussing the possibility of the Bears finishing the season with the best record in the NFL. Now we’re thinking they might lose at Denver.
It wasn’t me that said that.
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Cam had the “I can’t wait to get the hell out of this stadium” look all night.
0-2 with 2 home losses to start is no bueno for Carolina.
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This is for 82. Of course, all opinions are welcome.
Did Newton seem totally uninterested in the game? I thought his actions and attitude on the field made Jay Cutler look like Mr. Positive.
Could be a long year in N.C.
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Cam had the “I can’t wait to get the hell out of this stadium” look all night.
0-2 with 2 home losses to start is no bueno for Carolina.
Looks like we saw the exact same thing.
Ugh.... you beat me with the post ;)
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I agree that the Bears are ripe for an upset, but I just don't think Flacco and Denver are the ones to do it. That is one bad team.
But if it would happen, the Bears would be in huge trouble this year.
If the Bears lose Sunday, they are in big trouble. They have Washington, the Vikings, Oakland, then New Orleans and the LA Chargers coming up. If they cannot beat Denver, there is not a sure win in the bunch, making the Bears potentially 0-7 and in the hunt for a first round replacement for Mitch. If they right the ship, they could conceivably defeat Oakland, Washington and the Chargers -- New Orleans and Minnesota may be too much.
Then again, maybe not. This is the "Any given Sunday" league.
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Looks like we saw the exact same thing.
Ugh.... you beat me with the post ;)
Yeah, completely agree, it was obvious his body language was poor, he’s hurt, doesn’t want to be there...something for sure.
He no sold that last Panther offensive play like no other.
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If the Bears lose Sunday, they are in big trouble. They have Washington, the Vikings, Oakland, then New Orleans and the LA Chargers coming up. If they cannot beat Denver, there is not a sure win in the bunch, making the Bears potentially 0-7 and in the hunt for a first round replacement for Mitch. If they right the ship, they could conceivably defeat Oakland, Washington and the Chargers -- New Orleans and Minnesota may be too much.
Then again, maybe not. This is the "Any given Sunday" league.
Completely agree, dg.
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This is for 82. Of course, all opinions are welcome.
Did Newton seem totally uninterested in the game? I thought his actions and attitude on the field made Jay Cutler look like Mr. Positive.
Could be a long year in N.C.
Cam is one of the most intense competitors I've ever seen, and I didn't get the vibe at all that he was mailing it in.
He had a poor night overall. He got little help from his offensive line. The LT was like a rusty gate; #58 was living in Cam's face. Plus, never got any holes opened for the running game.
I think Cam is still hurting a little; not nearly as explosive a runner, so they're not even trying him as one. I mean ... 4th and half-yard with the game on the line -- for 8 years that would have been a near-automatic Cam keeper, and he converted darn near 100% of the time.
It definitely is gonna be a long year. I hate to say "must win" in the second game of the season, but you can't start 0-2, with both losses at home, including one to Tampa. I went in thinking maybe 9-7 or 10-6 because I thought they had fixed some holes and I'm an optimist at heart, but I doubt they'll get close to that now.
The only good news is that I seriously considered going to that game but I'm glad I decided not to. As frustrating as it was watching on TV, would have been 10x that in person. Plus the deluge that caused the delay woulda been oh so fun in person.
I'm not a happy camper, but that's sports. At least Wojo got another fine recruit, so my other team had a good day!
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Yeah he definitely looked completely uninterested.
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I have never got the vibe that Cam is an “intense competitor.” More often I see a lot of negative body language when things go south early. Now everyone has that to some extent but Cam doesn’t seem to rally back from that. This is all opinion that may not be backed up by fact.
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I have never got the vibe that Cam is an “intense competitor.” More often I see a lot of negative body language when things go south early. Now everyone has that to some extent but Cam doesn’t seem to rally back from that. This is all opinion that may not be backed up by fact.
Most intense competitors don’t show up to the stadium looking like one of the golden girls either.
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I don't know. I saw some pretty bad body language from Aaron Rodgers last week. I guess that confirms that he's a poor competitor.
Cam has not been good enough this season, and he fully accepted responsibility in his comments after the game last night. But maybe all of Scoop's amateur psychologists are right and Cam just doesn't give a damn.
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I don't know. I saw some pretty bad body language from Aaron Rodgers last week. I guess that confirms that he's a poor competitor.
I guess you missed the part where I said "Now everyone has that to some extent..."
And I think Rodgers track record speaks for itself.
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Most intense competitors don’t show up to the stadium looking like one of the golden girls either.
Irrelevant.
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I guess you missed the part where I said "Now everyone has that to some extent..."
And I think Rodgers track record speaks for itself.
I also think Rodgers' track record speaks for itself. He is a great QB and a first-ballot HoFer. He gets pissed and frustrated sometimes. So do many others. Doesn't mean they don't care.
Cam Newton's track record his first 7 years in the league was pretty good, too. Included in that was a 5-year stretch that included 4 playoff appearances, 3 division titles, a Super Bowl, an MVP and some outstanding stats -- all while growing from an immature kid to a respected team leader who does amazing charity work in Charlotte.
Despite injury, he played very well the first half of last season. Then his body gave up on him. He has not played well this season, and I'm pretty sure he's more injured than the Panthers are letting on publicly. His running ability is what made him really special, but he has taken a lot of punishment during his career and he no longer seems to have the explosiveness to be the athlete he once was.
Maybe some of that will be seen as excuses. OK. But they also are facts.
Interwebs psychologists looking at Newton's body language and determining he doesn't care despite his long history as a highly competitive, winning QB? Those aren't facts.
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Also for 82, I havent paid enough attention, but has Cam lost weight? I don't know if its maybe his QB jacket being different, but he seems slimmer than he has in recent years. He's still a big dude, but just seems leaner
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Also for 82, I havent paid enough attention, but has Cam lost weight? I don't know if its maybe his QB jacket being different, but he seems slimmer than he has in recent years. He's still a big dude, but just seems leaner
Yep. He became a vegan. Maybe that's part of his effen problem!
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I also think Rodgers' track record speaks for itself. He is a great QB and a first-ballot HoFer. He gets pissed and frustrated sometimes. So do many others. Doesn't mean they don't care.
Cam Newton's track record his first 7 years in the league was pretty good, too. Included in that was a 5-year stretch that included 4 playoff appearances, 3 division titles, a Super Bowl, an MVP and some outstanding stats -- all while growing from an immature kid to a respected team leader who does amazing charity work in Charlotte.
Despite injury, he played very well the first half of last season. Then his body gave up on him. He has not played well this season, and I'm pretty sure he's more injured than the Panthers are letting on publicly. His running ability is what made him really special, but he has taken a lot of punishment during his career and he no longer seems to have the explosiveness to be the athlete he once was.
Maybe some of that will be seen as excuses. OK. But they also are facts.
Interwebs psychologists looking at Newton's body language and determining he doesn't care despite his long history as a highly competitive, winning QB? Those aren't facts.
Cool.
I still have never gotten the impression that he was an "intense competitor."
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Cool.
I still have never gotten the impression that he was an "intense competitor."
You're right. He's never given a damn.
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Cool.
I still have never gotten the impression that he was an "intense competitor."
No snark intended ... but does someone even make it to the NFL, much less become league MVP, without being an intense competitor? Being good at football is really hard. Being good at quarterback is even harder. I struggle to imagine how someone attains Cam's level of success, not to mention putting up with the physical and mental toll of the game, without being a competitor.
I do understand that Cam gives off a lackadaisical vibe, and "business decision" will forever haunt him, but I'll never buy the notion that a good football player doesn't care. The game is such that a person who doesn't work hard and who doesn't care will not succeed, regardless of physical talents (see: Russell, Jamarcus).
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You're right. He's never given a damn.
Never said that. Don't be disengenuous.
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No snark intended ... but does someone even make it to the NFL, much less become league MVP, without being an intense competitor? Being good at football is really hard. Being good at quarterback is even harder. I struggle to imagine how someone attains Cam's level of success, not to mention putting up with the physical and mental toll of the game, without being a competitor.
I do understand that Cam gives off a lackadaisical vibe, and "business decision" will forever haunt him, but I'll never buy the notion that a good football player doesn't care. The game is such that a person who doesn't work hard and who doesn't care will not succeed, regardless of physical talents (see: Russell, Jamarcus).
It's all in the context of being an NFL player.
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No snark intended ... but does someone even make it to the NFL, much less become league MVP, without being an intense competitor? Being good at football is really hard. Being good at quarterback is even harder. I struggle to imagine how someone attains Cam's level of success, not to mention putting up with the physical and mental toll of the game, without being a competitor.
I do understand that Cam gives off a lackadaisical vibe, and "business decision" will forever haunt him, but I'll never buy the notion that a good football player doesn't care. The game is such that a person who doesn't work hard and who doesn't care will not succeed, regardless of physical talents (see: Russell, Jamarcus).
Of course this is the case, Pakuni.
But it's much easier to look at somebody for 5 seconds and decide that he can't possibly be an intense competitor.
I mean, I also heard he refused to do a slap of five!
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But it's much easier to look at somebody for 5 seconds and decide that he can't possibly be an intense competitor.
It's always really easy for you to refute someone's argument by telling outright lies isn't it. Sad.
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It's always really easy for you to refute someone's argument by telling outright lies isn't it. Sad.
You claimed he wasn't an intense competitor. Others say his body language somehow proved he was just mailing it in last night. Isn't the burden of proof on the accusers?
It was a really ridiculous claim, and you all are smart enough to know it.
I guess none of y'all has seen him hurtle his body toward the goal line, absorbing massive hits, stretching out to just barely get the football across, putting his health on the line -- something he has done numerous times. Numerous times, he has been spun around in midair before he crash-lands in the end zone. I guess only athletes who aren't intense competitors and who mail it in put their bodies on the line like that.
Yep, Sultan, I'm the sad one because I'm making sarcastic, obviously hyperbole-filled statements about ridiculous claims. Next time, for the uninitiated, I'll use teal. (Actually, I won't.)
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You claimed he wasn't an intense competitor. Others say his body language somehow proved he was just mailing it in last night. Isn't the burden of proof on the accusers?
It was a really ridiculous claim, and you all are smart enough to know it.
I guess none of y'all has seen him hurtle his body toward the goal line, absorbing massive hits, stretching out to just barely get the football across, putting his health on the line -- something he has done numerous times. Numerous times, he has been spun around in midair before he crash-lands in the end zone. I guess only athletes who aren't intense competitors and who mail it in put their bodies on the line like that.
Yep, Sultan, I'm the sad one because I'm making sarcastic, obviously hyperbole-filled statements about ridiculous claims. Next time, for the uninitiated, I'll use teal. (Actually, I won't.)
I've seen him play plenty of times. Much more than 5 seconds. I've seen him do all the things you have seen him do. I never got the impression that that made him more "intense" than most.
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Cool, nads and sultan going at each other. This is a new pissing match.
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Cam is one of the most intense competitors I've ever seen, and I didn't get the vibe at all that he was mailing it in.
I think Cam is still hurting a little; not nearly as explosive a runner, so they're not even trying him as one. I mean ... 4th and half-yard with the game on the line -- for 8 years that would have been a near-automatic Cam keeper, and he converted darn near 100% of the time.
Mike, I didn’t mean to put you on the spot. Like Dish, I noticed a certain demeanor with Cam last night that I hadn’t seen before (granted I haven’t watched him as much as you have). He just seemed like a different guy.
Also, as someone else posted, he did not seem as physically imposing as in the past. I was just looking for your opinion -which I respect.
It slipped my mind for a minute that we were on Scoop where answering a query will bring multiple attacks.
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I've seen him play plenty of times. Much more than 5 seconds. I've seen him do all the things you have seen him do. I never got the impression that that made him more "intense" than most.
And I never gave the impression that he was "more" intense than most. I just said he was an intense competitor, as most great professional athletes are.
You can have the last word on this subject if you'd like.
It slipped my mind for a minute that we were on Scoop where answering a query will bring multiple attacks.
It's all good. I'm not as intense as I used to be.
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Good thing is that Cam hasn’t let it influence his wardrobe on game days....dapper as always
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Cam was a more intense competitor. Something mentally and/or physically was off Thursday night, it was glaringly obvious. That doesn’t demean his career, but he absolutely had a body language look of get me the hell out of here. If years of physical toll have caught up with him, I certainly understand. The Panthers keep saying he’s fine. If that’s the true case, his current game statistically proves something is way off.
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Lots of talking heads are ripping on Cam -- and deservedly so, he has not been good since midseason last year.
https://www.charlotteobserver.com/sports/nfl/carolina-panthers/article235061547.html?
Above and beyond those in that article, I have heard Steve Young, Troy Aikman, Tony Korheiser, Michael Irvin,Tim Hasselbeck and several others talk about him.
Given what my fellow Scoopers have said, I seriously am surprised that not a single one of them -- some of whom were VERY critical of him, like savagely critical of him -- mentioned that he had bad body language, that he looked like he didn't want to be there, etc.
I guess Scoopers are just more observant than Steve Young and Tim Hasselbeck are.
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Lots of talking heads are ripping on Cam -- and deservedly so, he has not been good since midseason last year.
https://www.charlotteobserver.com/sports/nfl/carolina-panthers/article235061547.html?
Above and beyond those in that article, I have heard Steve Young, Troy Aikman, Tony Korheiser, Michael Irvin,Tim Hasselbeck and several others talk about him.
Given what my fellow Scoopers have said, I seriously am surprised that not a single one of them -- some of whom were VERY critical of him, like savagely critical of him -- mentioned that he had bad body language, that he looked like he didn't want to be there, etc.
I guess Scoopers are just more observant than Steve Young and Tim Hasselbeck are.
You are the most intense passive aggressive poster on Scoop.
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Why didn’t they review that Allison fumble? I’m pretty sure his knee was down.
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Why didn’t they review that Allison fumble? I’m pretty sure his knee was down.
I think it started coming out once he was hit.
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Why didn’t they review that Allison fumble? I’m pretty sure his knee was down.
All turnovers are reviewed. He was not down.
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Dear God
Thank you for Mitch Trubisky and Kirk Cousins.
Amen.
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Dear God
Thank you for Mitch Trubisky and Kirk Cousins.
Amen.
I was glad when the Queens signed Cousins. Looks like it’s paying off. The INT in the end zone was worse than Mitch’s.
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Go Pokes
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I was glad when the Queens signed Cousins. Looks like it’s paying off. The INT in the end zone was worse than Mitch’s.
Packers are 2-0 with wins against division rivals and haven't really had a complete game yet.
I'll take that.
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Packers are 2-0 with wins against division rivals and haven't really had a complete game yet.
I'll take that.
Before the season started, I was hoping for 1-1. I’m overjoyed at 2-0, especially against the two teams that think they are winning the division.
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This Bears/Broncos game is exhilarating television.
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There simply is almost no substitute for quality play at the QB position.
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This Bears/Broncos game is exhilarating television.
I predict that the Bears will get a TD.
Not necessarily today, but sometime this year.
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Can’t Fox find someone better than Dick Stockton?
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So I’m sure this has happened before, but the Bills won in consecutive weeks, on the road, in same stadium. (Met Life)
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There simply is almost no substitute for quality play at the QB position.
Yep, today we got to see what an effen genius Sean Payton is after Brees got hurt.
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That entire game was dumb.
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That entire game was dumb.
Consecutive timeouts by Nagy when the Broncos faced fourth down. Neither worked.
Bizarre roughing the quarterback call. No idea what he did wrong there.
But Trubisky stepped up when he had to and Pinero nailed the kick.
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The roughing call was weak. Welcome to NFL 2019. And kudos to da Bears for taking advantage of the opportunity.
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Consecutive timeouts by Nagy when the Broncos faced fourth down. Neither worked.
Bizarre roughing the quarterback call. No idea what he did wrong there.
But Trubisky stepped up when he had to and Pinero nailed the kick.
Almost identical roughing call early against the Bears. Both were horrible.
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Almost identical roughing call early against the Bears. Both were horrible.
The unnecessary roughness call on Floyd in the first quarter was also a joke.
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Because I’m late to the party having just returned home from an out of town wedding I’ll throw in my 2 cents on $cam and bring that debate back up. $cam looked like he was playing in the Super Bowl to me.
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How bad was he??
Mitchell Trubisky became the first starting QB to win a game despite (min 25 att):
- averaging 4.4 YPA or less
- passing for 120 yds or less
since... he did it last year.
Only full-time starting QBs w this feat:
- 2019: Trubisky
- 2018: Trubisky
- 2017: Cutler
- 2016: Osweiler
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How bad was he??
Mitchell Trubisky became the first starting QB to win a game despite (min 25 att):
- averaging 4.4 YPA or less
- passing for 120 yds or less
since... he did it last year.
Only full-time starting QBs w this feat:
- 2019: Trubisky
- 2018: Trubisky
- 2017: Cutler
- 2016: Osweiler
You could at least attribute the source/tweet that you copy/pasted from
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You could at least attribute the source/tweet that you copy/pasted from
Why? It’s not behind a paywall. I also did not claim that I went through the history of NFL stats to find this.
That like giving attribute to the NFL and Fox if I say ARod threwtwo TDs yesterday.
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Terrible break for the Saints.
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The Bears have some offensive problems (obviously) but that's the kind of win that can end up propelling a team to a good season.
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The Dolphins are a historic dumpster fire, so its tough to gauge things they do on normal metrics - but that being said, I like the return for Minkah Fitzpatrick. The Steelers have to project to have a t-10 pick considering they are already 0-2, Big Ben is out for the year, and they haven't played a game vs the Browns or Ravens yet.
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That Steelers trade makes zero sense with Ben’s injury. I was thinking to myself earlier today that the Steelers could be a sneaky tank for Tua team. I get that their defense has been garbage through two weeks, but that’s a perplexing transaction to say the least.
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That seems more like a trade made so someone doesn't lose their job.
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The Steelers are in trouble.
They actually have been in a gradual decline ever since they lost to the Packers in the SB after the 2010 season.
In the 8 seasons since then, they have won only 3 playoff games and have failed to make the playoffs 3 times.
When you have a future HoF QB playing well, you can cover up some problems, but when you lose Roethlisberger, Bell and Brown bang-bang-bang, even while you let numerous other good players go to other teams over the years, you reach a point where it's difficult to compete for anything that matters.
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The Steelers are in trouble.
They actually have been in a gradual decline ever since they lost to the Packers in the SB after the 2010 season.
In the 8 seasons since then, they have won only 3 playoff games and have failed to make the playoffs 3 times.
When you have a future HoF QB playing well, you can cover up some problems, but when you lose Roethlisberger, Bell and Brown bang-bang-bang, even while you let numerous other good players go to other teams over the years, you reach a point where it's difficult to compete for anything that matters.
Agreed. I'm not sure they can even compete with Miami for the Toilet Bowl of the league award.
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The Steelers are in trouble.
They actually have been in a gradual decline ever since they lost to the Packers in the SB after the 2010 season.
In the 8 seasons since then, they have won only 3 playoff games and have failed to make the playoffs 3 times.
When you have a future HoF QB playing well, you can cover up some problems, but when you lose Roethlisberger, Bell and Brown bang-bang-bang, even while you let numerous other good players go to other teams over the years, you reach a point where it's difficult to compete for anything that matters.
I have a couple friends that are big Steelers fans, and knowledgeable/reasonable football guys. They've been done with Tomlin for a few years. Not screaming for him to be fired, but fine with him being gone when he is. The 2017 playoffs capped it for them.
He's always struck me as a CEO/locker room type, as opposed to a tactical genius. His clock management has always been suspect. But he looked like he has been going through the motions this year. I already talked about how disgusted I was by their gameplan and execution against NE. But what a lifeless bunch on Sunday as well. A thoroughly average Seattle team had them at bay all game in their house. Even when Ben went down Rudolph played well enough for them to have a shot at winning, but their defense was spineless and atrocious.
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I have a couple friends that are big Steelers fans, and knowledgeable/reasonable football guys. They've been done with Tomlin for a few years. Not screaming for him to be fired, but fine with him being gone when he is. The 2017 playoffs capped it for them.
He's always struck me as a CEO/locker room type, as opposed to a tactical genius. His clock management has always been suspect. But he looked like he has been going through the motions this year. I already talked about how disgusted I was by their gameplan and execution against NE. But what a lifeless bunch on Sunday as well. A thoroughly average Seattle team had them at bay all game in their house. Even when Ben went down Rudolph played well enough for them to have a shot at winning, but their defense was spineless and atrocious.
Time for Mike McCarthy to return home!
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I have a couple friends that are big Steelers fans, and knowledgeable/reasonable football guys. They've been done with Tomlin for a few years. Not screaming for him to be fired, but fine with him being gone when he is. The 2017 playoffs capped it for them.
He's always struck me as a CEO/locker room type, as opposed to a tactical genius. His clock management has always been suspect. But he looked like he has been going through the motions this year. I already talked about how disgusted I was by their gameplan and execution against NE. But what a lifeless bunch on Sunday as well. A thoroughly average Seattle team had them at bay all game in their house. Even when Ben went down Rudolph played well enough for them to have a shot at winning, but their defense was spineless and atrocious.
He should consider hiring some tactical geniuses then, because he's a phenomenal coach. After the locker room turmoil he guided them through last year, 8 am struggling to see how change for changes sake is the best thing for them. The Packers had complacency - outsiders' view is that that's not the case in Pittsburgh
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Newton reinjured his foot in last week's horrid loss to Tampa and might have to miss upcoming games.
https://www.charlotteobserver.com/sports/nfl/carolina-panthers/article235175497.html?
Although I sure as heck wish he were healthy, this does explain a lot about how feeble he looked in general and why the team never even considered using him as the ballcarrier on a crucial 4th-and-1 at the end of the game.
Newton has taken more hits than just about anybody in football since 2011 and the pummeling is taking its toll. Who knows ... he could be all but done as an NFL player.
I've enjoyed watching him play, and also watching him mature as a person. I'm obviously hoping for a complete recovery, but that might never happen.
The Panthers have no really viable alternative, so their season, already on the precipice, will likely be flushed down the toilet if he misses much time. I wanted them to sign Kaepernick, who would have been an almost perfect backup given his similar style and past success, but I guess that won't happen.
Oh well ... it's been a good run.
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AB released.
Shocking!!
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AB released.
Shocking!!
Have to respect the Patriots organization on this one. My guess is new info came out that they wanted no part of and won't put up with.
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Have to respect the Patriots organization on this one. My guess is new info came out that they wanted no part of and won't put up with.
Sending text messages to the source for Klemko's article is unreal. AB is completely unhinged right now.
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Have to respect the Patriots organization on this one. My guess is new info came out that they wanted no part of and won't put up with.
Yes. They managed to clear the low bar that they have set for themselves.
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Have to respect the Patriots organization on this one. My guess is new info came out that they wanted no part of and won't put up with.
They tampered to sign him, and then fast tracked him to play, even with allegations swirling. They released him after it got even worse. I'm not going to give them some moral congratulations for doing this after living in the grey area for 2 weeks.
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After what he did yesterday, I wonder why it took until this afternoon to get rid of him.
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They tampered to sign him, and then fast tracked him to play, even with allegations swirling. They released him after it got even worse. I'm not going to give them some moral congratulations for doing this after living in the grey area for 2 weeks.
And and and, his signing bonus was due Monday. Now they can begin the fight to avoid paying it.
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Robert Kraft has way too much integrity for this. He would never support someone who committed sexual improprieties.
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Robert Kraft has way too much integrity for this. He would never support someone who committed sexual improprieties.
Funny
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They tampered to sign him, and then fast tracked him to play, even with allegations swirling. They released him after it got even worse. I'm not going to give them some moral congratulations for doing this after living in the grey area for 2 weeks.
Truly a reprehensible organization. It sucks that they have proven repeatedly that good things often do happen to bad people.
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Robert Kraft has way too much integrity for this. He would never support someone who committed sexual improprieties.
Word has it Brown rubbed Kraft the wrong way.
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Funny
curious.
explain.
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They tampered to sign him, and then fast tracked him to play, even with allegations swirling. They released him after it got even worse. I'm not going to give them some moral congratulations for doing this after living in the grey area for 2 weeks.
The Patriots are literally the worst.
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The Patriots are literally the worst.
Literally.....
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Packers are 0-3 with last year’s defense right now.
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Bruce Arians completely botched the end of that game. Took delay of game, Winston kneels, they lose 7 yards, kick missed by maybe 2 yards, what a terrible end of game job.
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Wild speculation on my part, but you gotta wonder if AB doesn't have a touch of the CTE similar to Aaron Hernandez.....he is just way too erratic
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Wild speculation on my part, but you gotta wonder if AB doesn't have a touch of the CTE similar to Aaron Hernandez.....he is just way too erratic
I think it is merely unbridled ego and narcissism. Erratic behavior is common in people that think they are the most important and can do no wrong.
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Bruce Arians completely botched the end of that game. Took delay of game, Winston kneels, they lose 7 yards, kick missed by maybe 2 yards, what a terrible end of game job.
Even after today's uplifting win, I'm still sick that my Panthers lost to that dreadful Bucs team last week.
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Bruce Arians completely botched the end of that game. Took delay of game, Winston kneels, they lose 7 yards, kick missed by maybe 2 yards, what a terrible end of game job.
He said that he intentionally took the delay of game because a longer kick is easier for his kicker. That’s very odd.
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I think it is merely unbridled ego and narcissism. Erratic behavior is common in people that think they are the most important and can do no wrong.
Lets leave Keefe out of this.
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I think it is merely unbridled ego and narcissism. Erratic behavior is common in people that think they are the most important and can do no wrong.
Sounds like you’re describing a number of relentless posters on Scoop.
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Kitchens calls a pointless timeout on 4th down, guaranteeing Browns can’t get the ball back.
It’s truly unbelievable that multi billion dollar organizations make such dumb in game decisions at crucial times so consistently.
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He said that he intentionally took the delay of game because a longer kick is easier for his kicker. That’s very odd.
As I understand it the kicker had missed one extra point and had another one blocked for what that's worth. Giant's radio announcers (Carl Banks) already had the story written- great game by the rookie QB only to be let down by the miserable Giant defense, when the guy flat out missed. They were flabbergasted.
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Kitchens calls a pointless timeout on 4th down, guaranteeing Browns can’t get the ball back.
It’s truly unbelievable that multi billion dollar organizations make such dumb in game decisions at crucial times so consistently.
Lets leave Mike McCarthy out of this.
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Kitchens calls a pointless timeout on 4th down, guaranteeing Browns can’t get the ball back.
It’s truly unbelievable that multi billion dollar organizations make such dumb in game decisions at crucial times so consistently.
Really I had no reason to think Kitchens was a good or bad hire. So many of these coordinators are anonymous to me, and it seems like there is way too much retreading of head coaches who haven't been particularly successful. But at best the jury is still out on Kitchens.
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Really I had no reason to think Kitchens was a good or bad hire. So many of these coordinators are anonymous to me, and it seems like there is way too much retreading of head coaches who haven't been particularly successful. But at best the jury is still out on Kitchens.
What boggles my mind is NFL teams spend so much time, effort, capital on scouting, player development, player/coaching staff salaries, all that, and there's only 16 times a year for all that investment to pay off on the field where it matters, and teams have bozo's making decisions all of us at home can see are terrible.
No one needs to be perfect, and mistakes happen, but every team should have a Common Sense Coordinator.
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I think it is merely unbridled ego and narcissism. Erratic behavior is common in people that think they are the most important and can do no wrong.
Don't forget ta potentially toss drugs and alcohol inta da equation two, aina?
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I think it is merely unbridled ego and narcissism. Erratic behavior is common in people that think they are the most important and can do no wrong.
I'd agree with that take if it was just the contract stuff and/or the assault issues.....but when you throw the helmet stuff, the cryofreezing, the group texting an accuser, etc I think he is demonstrating judgement so poor it's beyond comprehension and is certainly outside his behavior of the first 5 years in the league.
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https://www.mlive.com/sports/2019/09/antonio-brown-released-by-patriots-has-reenrolled-at-central-michigan.html
If he follows through, this could be among the more interesting twists in this story.
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I'd agree with that take if it was just the contract stuff and/or the assault issues.....but when you throw the helmet stuff, the cryofreezing, the group texting an accuser, etc I think he is demonstrating judgement so poor it's beyond comprehension and is certainly outside his behavior of the first 5 years in the league.
I would not be surprised in the least if there are some mental health issues at play here.
But I also think we're quick to cite CTE every time a contact sport athlete goes off the rails. From what we know now, it seems the great majority of football players - and probably hockey players as well - have or will develop CTE. And yet the great majority of these current and former athletes don't behave erratically, much less harm others (or themselves).
I'm no expert, but judging from what little I know and the behavior he's displayed, I'd guess Brown is more likely bipolar than suffering the effects of CTE.
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What boggles my mind is NFL teams spend so much time, effort, capital on scouting, player development, player/coaching staff salaries, all that, and there's only 16 times a year for all that investment to pay off on the field where it matters, and teams have bozo's making decisions all of us at home can see are terrible.
No one needs to be perfect, and mistakes happen, but every team should have a Common Sense Coordinator.
Andy Glockner is very vocal on Twitter about this. It makes you watch the games a little differently since coaches go against the numbers so much.
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Imagine trading Khalil Mack
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Imagine trading Khalil Mack
Imagine single teaming him.
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The 'Skins are really, really bad.
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Imagine trading Khalil Mack
And then complaining that you need a better pass rush.
As a coach, Gruden was an OK television analyst.
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I like McLaurin a lot, rookie wideouts typically have an adjustment period. Dude looks like he’s been in the league 3 years, not 3 games.
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I like McLaurin a lot, rookie wideouts typically have an adjustment period. Dude looks like he’s been in the league 3 years, not 3 games.
Dude is good. Let's see what happens when teams adjust to him. Needs a Robin.
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I turned the game on last night and the first play I saw was Ha Ha's pick six. By the reaction of the crowd, I thought the game was in Soldier Field.
There has not been a franchise run worse than the Redskins over the past twenty years. (Yes including the Browns.) A great franchise with a wonderful fanbase...and it's turned to this. Snyder is the absolute worst owner in the game.
Now they are putting the likes of London Fletcher on their Ring of Honor and misspelling his name in the process.
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Do the unbeaten Lions remind anyone else of the 13-3 Dick Jauron Bears? Not very good but stink their way out of jams?
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Do the unbeaten Lions remind anyone else of the 13-3 Dick Jauron Bears? Not very good but stink their way out of jams?
Maybe if they had somehow lucked a W out of that stinkfest against Arizona. That Bears team had more horseshoes than Churchill Downs. Oh look another Mike Brown pick 6.
I suspect they come crashing back to earth with Chiefs, @Packers, and Minnesota looming ahead.
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Looks like Kyle Allen will get a legit chance to prove that he is the new Tom Brady (and that Cam Newton is the new Drew Bledsoe). The Athletic has reported that Newton has a much more serious injury than had been disclosed and will be out for 6-8 weeks.
Allen was outstanding Sunday, hitting receivers in stride, looking like he knew exactly what he was doing all day. But the opponent was the Cardinals, and they are really, really bad. The Panthers are at Houston this week, and Mr. Watt will be introducing himself to Allen - hopefully not all day long!
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Detroit has a difficult schedule coming up. There was one projection that had the starting 0-11. The worst thing you can do is to ever start to believe the Lions might be good.
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Game in 4K tonight. First time in US history a regular season game provided in 4K.
Check your TV provider if they carry it in 4K.
If you are in section 107 tonight I can steer you to a row to purchase 4 students a beer...I gave them my tickets
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Game in 4K tonight. First time in US history a regular season game provided in 4K.
Check your TV provider if they carry it in 4K.
If you are in section 107 tonight I can steer you to a row to purchase 4 students a beer...I gave them my tickets
You can purchase 4 students for a single beer. Man, students are cheap these days.
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You can purchase 4 students for a single beer. Man, students are cheap these days.
Or are beers at athletic events just expensive?
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LaFleur has a long ways to go in play calling. So many promising drives stalling out.
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You can purchase 4 students for a single beer. Man, students are cheap these days.
LOL.
Let’s eat grandma
Let’s eat, grandma
4K looks amazing for football
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This is the problem with reviewing judgement calls. No idea what the standard is for PI reviews. That seemed much more of a PI than the one that took the Broncos TD away last Sunday.
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This is the problem with reviewing judgement calls. No idea what the standard is for PI reviews. That seemed much more of a PI than the one that took the Broncos TD away last Sunday.
In my view, PI should be replayed in regular speed and not slow motion.
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The amount of stoppages and commercials in this game is amazing.
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In my view, PI should be replayed in regular speed and not slow motion.
Yeah, replaying PI is so hard. If anything, it shows there is PI on pretty much every play. Just this 3rd quarter replay, for example. King clearly swatted Alshon Jeffrey's hands away before the ball got there. By definition, the play was absolutely pass interference. And yet Pederson challenges it, and doesn't get the call because... consistency with prior calls? Not egregious enough PI to reverse?
It makes no sense. If you make a play reviewable, its because you've determined that as a rule, its worth the stoppage to make sure you get it right. And now we're not getting it right even after reviewing it because its not an egregious enough error by some subjective standard? I don't understand what they're trying to do.
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Maybe Packers DBs should’ve held off on claiming to be the best defense in the league until they played a quarterback not named Mitchell Trubisky, Kirk Cousins, or Joe Flacco.
Also, Mike Daniels certainly wouldn’t have hurt the cause of a DLine that’s given up 150+ yards rushing for 3 straight games.
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Run the damn ball. Dear lord that was awful.
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1st and goal.
Pass
Pass
Pass
Pass
Turnover on downs.
Cute.
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Run the damn ball. Dear lord that was awful.
4 attempts from the 1. All passes. Pretty embarrassing.
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Y knot kick da sure 3, hey?
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Philly has been head hunting all night. Finally catches up to them on a stupid launch by Sendejo.
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Someone please explain how watching players being carted off multiple times a game is entertaining? Twitter streams in Kentucky and Arkansas are blowing up with “NOW THiZ iS FOOTBALL!!💀💀”
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Maybe Packers DBs should’ve held off on claiming to be the best defense in the league until they played a quarterback not named Mitchell Trubisky, Kirk Cousins, or Joe Flacco.
Also, Mike Daniels certainly wouldn’t have hurt the cause of a DLine that’s given up 150+ yards rushing for 3 straight games.
That's three weeks in a row we've been shredded by the run. Cook, Lindsey, and Howard had the widest of lanes. Not a good look.
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Terrible pass by Rodgers at the end, but it still seemed receiver was interfered with.
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Y knot kick da sure 3, hey?
The Ghost of Mac, ai-na?
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Maybe Packers DBs should’ve held off on claiming to be the best defense in the league until they played a quarterback not named Mitchell Trubisky, Kirk Cousins, or Joe Flacco.
Also, Mike Daniels certainly wouldn’t have hurt the cause of a DLine that’s given up 150+ yards rushing for 3 straight games.
Wentz had 160 pass yards, and two of his three touchdowns were on swing passes guarded by linebackers......how is any of what happened last night the DBs fault? Run defense sucks but as long as Pettine continues to insist on playing 6 DB nearly all the time that ain't gonna get fixed.
Side note, RPO is great and I don't want more flags but on most of those throws by the Eagles on RPO the linemen were at least 5 yards downfield. How is the defense supposed to read their cues?
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Matt LaFleur didn’t have a good game. Looks like the Packers offense operates best when 12 plays uptempo. Sounds familiar
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Honestly I don’t know what LaFleur is doing versus Rodgers being Rodgers.
Elliott could go for 200 next week against this defense. BTW am I alone in thinking Martinez isn’t nearly as good as people say he is?
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Wentz had 160 pass yards, and two of his three touchdowns were on swing passes guarded by linebackers......how is any of what happened last night the DBs fault? Run defense sucks but as long as Pettine continues to insist on playing 6 DB nearly all the time that ain't gonna get fixed.
Side note, RPO is great and I don't want more flags but on most of those throws by the Eagles on RPO the linemen were at least 5 yards downfield. How is the defense supposed to read their cues?
The DBs do know that the run game is part of football right? To be the best defense in the NFL you have to be able to at least be minimally competitive against the run. I don't care if it was Jaire Alexander, Mike Pettine, Matt LeFleur, or Aaron Rodgers. "I know we have the best defense in the league." Kind of silly to say when the 3 offenses you've played against so far have been quarterbacked by Joe Flacco, Kirk Cousins, and Mitchell Trubisky. The only thing the defense has done well so far this year (beyond the Bears game where neither offense had played a snap in live action) is take the ball away. That doesn't happen as often when you're playing against competent quarterbacks.
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I'm not worried about the DBs. One bit.
I'm worried about the interior defensive line and the inside linebackers.
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I'm not worried about the DBs. One bit.
I'm worried about the interior defensive line and the inside linebackers.
Agree with Sultan. Need to improve at the point of attack on D. And 4 passes from the 1 is an embarrassment. Trust your O-line coach.
Anyway, they're far from a perfect team. But I'm still optimistic they'll have a solid year.
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Honestly I don’t know what LaFleur is doing versus Rodgers being Rodgers.
Elliott could go for 200 next week against this defense. BTW am I alone in thinking Martinez isn’t nearly as good as people say he is?
People castigated LaFleur for some of the playcalling, specifically the TOD inside the 5, completely seem to forget how much audible and freestyle ability Rodgers has. It wasnt like Trubisky hamstrung by bad play calls.
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I agree. The DBs are a solid group. I just mean nobody should've been talking about being the best defense in the NFL until they played a quarterback who isn't going to just give you the football at least twice in a game.
The Packers have a very favorable schedule. They will have a chance to get a first round bye. But I don't think this is an upper tier NFL team without getting some ILB and WR help.
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Agree with Sultan. Need to improve at the point of attack on D. And 4 passes from the 1 is an embarrassment. Trust your O-line coach.
But as Wags says, is this the play calling or Rodgers doing his thing?
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But as Wags says, is this the play calling or Rodgers doing his thing?
It was the play calling.
Lots of similarities between LeFleur and Nagy. Two inexperienced play callers who still have a ways to go on the learning curve.
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So some of the ideas / rumors coming out on the new CBA.
**17 game season with every team playing a game at a neutral site each year.
**Each team will get two byes.
**Season will start the same time, but the Super Bowl will be stretched to end on President's Day weekend.
**Pre-season will be cut by one or two games
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It was the play calling.
Lots of similarities between LeFleur and Nagy. Two inexperienced play callers who still have a ways to go on the learning curve.
Except one has a 14 year veteran 2 time MVP with plenty of influence and control, and the other has a starter in his second year who can stop overthrowing receivers. Sure, Rodgers is adapting to a new offense, but lets not pretend he got stripped down and is starting from square 1 carrying out only LeFLeur's orders.
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(http://i.gifer.com/2IQ9.gif)
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My hot takes for the week: Mahomes will go down as the GOAT and is already better than peak Rodgers ever was.
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My hot takes for the week: Mahomes will go down as the GOAT and is already better than peak Rodgers ever was.
SHEEESH.
I will say, I did think last night that Mahomes either completes, or at least tries, a flip toss over the top to Lazard on that 3rd down
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My hot takes for the week: Mahomes will go down as the GOAT and is already better than peak Rodgers ever was.
#badhottaeks
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Mahomes is great. When this season is all said and done, he might have peaked higher than Rodgers did in 2011. He hasn't yet though.
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My hot takes for the week: Mahomes will go down as the GOAT and is already better than peak Rodgers ever was.
let's not get too rambunctious here wades. he has a ways to go. has played in 20 games...soooo much can happen...suddenly. i love the guy, has tons of charisma and confidence, love watching him play, has signs of being a great one, wish him all the good health in the world, but he has to walk the walk yet
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My hot takes for the week: Mahomes will go down as the GOAT and is already better than peak Rodgers ever was.
He’s very good. Fun dude to be around, too. There is your name drop, just for you, for the weekend.
The new rules of the last few years make QB stats crazy eye popping vs yesteryear.
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So some of the ideas / rumors coming out on the new CBA.
**17 game season with every team playing a game at a neutral site each year.
**Each team will get two byes.
**Season will start the same time, but the Super Bowl will be stretched to end on President's Day weekend.
**Pre-season will be cut by one or two games
At some point, professional tackle football is going to exhaust its audience. I’d be curious to know the demographics on attendance and viewing habits of various age groups.
I ask that, knowing it’s always going to have a huge audience because of the gambling and fantasy aspects but if younger generations are tuning out sports because of game length, I wonder if less is more for all leagues going forward. The TV money will be bonkers off the bat, so I suppose that’s all that will matter
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At some point, professional tackle football is going to exhaust its audience. I’d be curious to know the demographics on attendance and viewing habits of various age groups.
I ask that, knowing it’s always going to have a huge audience because of the gambling and fantasy aspects but if younger generations are tuning out sports because of game length, I wonder if less is more for all leagues going forward. The TV money will be bonkers off the bat, so I suppose that’s all that will matter
I think the NFL is smart to extend their season in the winter. More captive audience.
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At some point, professional tackle football is going to exhaust its audience. I’d be curious to know the demographics on attendance and viewing habits of various age groups.
I ask that, knowing it’s always going to have a huge audience because of the gambling and fantasy aspects but if younger generations are tuning out sports because of game length, I wonder if less is more for all leagues going forward. The TV money will be bonkers off the bat, so I suppose that’s all that will matter
I have all that data as we monitor it heavily. The older you are, the more football you watch. That’s not to say younger demos are not watching, but not as much as older demos. There is also the piracy angle as younger people don’t think twice about stealing intellectual property....they admit it in the research. So those folks that are going to reddit to stream illegally, they aren’t counted in the watching numbers, but they also admit to doing it. A lot of focus in the industry at the moment on that one as an estimated $20 billion in revenue lost by illegal streamers expected in a few years.
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My hot takes for the week: Mahomes will go down as the GOAT and is already better than peak Rodgers ever was.
While I agree he is massively talented, lets watch his longevity. I remember the tragedy of Robert Griffin the Third.
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I have all that data as we monitor it heavily. The older you are, the more football you watch. That’s not to say younger demos are not watching, but not as much as older demos. There is also the piracy angle as younger people don’t think twice about stealing intellectual property....they admit it in the research. So those folks that are going to reddit to stream illegally, they aren’t counted in the watching numbers, but they also admit to doing it. A lot of focus in the industry at the moment on that one as an estimated $20 billion in revenue lost by illegal streamers expected in a few years.
What changes that you watch more football as you get older? I’m genuinely curious. I watch less but that’s a personal choice that I know isn’t reflective of the larger market.
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What changes that you watch more football as you get older? I’m genuinely curious. I watch less but that’s a personal choice that I know isn’t reflective of the larger market.
I think the question you are posing is wrong. A large portion of the population watched football...as they got older they still do, that hasn’t changed. Younger people, with more options, some of which gravitate away from manly man things more so now than in the past, etc, etc, watch less. So as the population ages, the folks replacing them are watching less....it is not that people watch more with age, they watch about as much as they always have.
Research as shown that under 35 view the game much differently. Some think it is too violent, too physical. If you are above the age of 35 you do not harbor nearly those views. Softer America...the data is stark. Now, maybe that makes today’s younger generation smarter (and softer), which is fine....just is what it is. Same research for hockey, boxing. The younger you are, the more the physicality is a bigger turnoff. It used to be that case in the research with women, but now younger dudes gravitating more and more to what the women’s responses were back in the day.
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I think the question you are posing is wrong. A large portion of the population watched football...as they got older they still do, that hasn’t changed. Younger people, with more options, some of which gravitate away from manly man things more so now than in the past, etc, etc, watch less. So as the population ages, the folks replacing them are watching less....it is not that people watch more with age, they watch about as much as they always have.
Research as shown that under 35 view the game much differently. Some think it is too violent, too physical. If you are above the age of 35 you do not harbor nearly those views. Softer America...the data is stark. Now, maybe that makes today’s younger generation smarter (and softer), which is fine....just is what it is. Same research for hockey, boxing. The younger you are, the more the physicality is a bigger turnoff. It used to be that case in the research with women, but now younger dudes gravitating more and more to what the women’s responses were back in the day.
::)
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::)
Roll your eyes, the data doesn’t lie. Reams of it. Attitudinal data, participation, etc. The leagues have the same data. All the networks, etc, they need it to know who to target and why.
It is what it is. If my words trigger, then call it a more “gentle and thoughtful” male demo that doesn’t gravitate toward traditions that in the past were supported at a higher rate by men. All kinds of reasons why.
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Soft losers who don't want brain damage. Soft parents who don't want their soft kids to suffer brain damage.
What a bunch of stoopid losers!
If only they could all be as tough and manly as hoopaloop!
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One time I hope Chico's is not talking out of his butt.
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I have no idea why he labels it “softer,” but honestly after watching two players get carted off on stretchers the other night, I wondered if I hadn’t grown up watching the game if I would have any interest in it. Especially with all of the breaks and commercials.
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I have no idea why he labels it “softer,” but honestly after watching two players get carted off on stretchers the other night, I wondered if I hadn’t grown up watching the game if I would have any interest in it. Especially with all of the breaks and commercials.
Not to take it away from the NFL in this thread, but that’s why college football attendance is dropping. Games are too long with all the commercials. NFL isn’t as bad but the first three weeks have been painful from the “action” I’ve seen
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I have no idea why he labels it “softer,” but honestly after watching two players get carted off on stretchers the other night, I wondered if I hadn’t grown up watching the game if I would have any interest in it. Especially with all of the breaks and commercials.
Eff 'em. They wuz softer than a Scooper's belly!
Football's gotta get back to what made it great: Legalized assault!
Bring back head-to-head hits that will hasten dementia, blindside attacks that turn unprotected receivers into quadriplegics, chop blocks that end careers, athletes heroically letting team doctors inject them with all kinds of crap so they can finish games ... you know, all the courageous, manly stuff from that great Pre Soft Era!
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I was watching the game on Thursday with my 60 year old Father. When Maddox went down late, he said, forlornly during a break, “Football as we know it will be gone in 20 years, which sucks cause I love watching it”, but immediately followed up with he completely understood it and wouldn’t let his child play knowing what we know now. It’s game and rules created and popularized when most players were under 200 lbs and the largest linemen would barely be median sized by today’s standards and substantially slower.
We should be more manly like the glory days where we ostracized gay men, mocked the showing of emotion, and applauded “corrective” physical violence towards spouses and children.
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Softer America
Yeah, those hairy wet cats just don't appreciate CTE.
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One time I hope Chico's is not talking out of his butt.
I deal with NFL players every day. Almost 3very one of them would let their kids play and do let their kids play.
As I said, it isn’t just football....extends to other sports. But what the hell does that have to do with watching football, which this was about. You don’t have to play it to watch it....but younger folks don’t want to. I never played hockey in my life, I still watch it. Didn’t realize you had to play in order to watch. Interesting.
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My hot takes for the week: Mahomes will go down as the GOAT and is already better than peak Rodgers ever was.
At the current moment mahomes is heads over heels better then Rodgers. But lots of quarterbacks with his play style are really good for a couple of years and then the punishment they take gets to them.
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Yeah, those hairy wet cats just don't appreciate CTE.
Let me guess, you are one of these people that believe 90% of players have CTE.
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Let me guess, you are one of these people that believe 90% of players have CTE.
Do you know they don't?
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Do you know they don't?
Is there science to suggest it, or even 1/2 of that amount? I’ve seen blatantly wrong stuff like 90% plus by “reputable” news orgs.
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Roll your eyes, the data doesn’t lie. Reams of it. Attitudinal data, participation, etc. The leagues have the same data. All the networks, etc, they need it to know who to target and why.
It is what it is. If my words trigger, then call it a more “gentle and thoughtful” male demo that doesn’t gravitate toward traditions that in the past were supported at a higher rate by men. All kinds of reasons why.
I'm not disputing the data. I'm not rolling my eyes at the statistics.
Your adjectives however...
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I deal with NFL players every day. Almost 3very one of them would let their kids play and do let their kids play.
As I said, it isn’t just football....extends to other sports. But what the hell does that have to do with watching football, which this was about. You don’t have to play it to watch it....but younger folks don’t want to. I never played hockey in my life, I still watch it. Didn’t realize you had to play in order to watch. Interesting.
I would agree that this next generation isn't as interested in football. IMO there are a number of reasons for this, including the pace of play and the violent nature of the game.
But why does that mean they are "softer?"
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Is there science to suggest it, or even 1/2 of that amount? I’ve seen blatantly wrong stuff like 90% plus by “reputable” news orgs.
https://www.cnn.com/2017/07/25/health/cte-nfl-players-brains-study/index.html
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I would agree that this next generation isn't as interested in football. IMO there are a number of reasons for this, including the pace of play and the violent nature of the game.
But why does that mean they are "softer?"
The generation that came of age during the second worst economy in U.S. history, faced the very real threat of being gunned down in their classrooms and has been fighting a war for 18 years is "soft" because they don't watch the NFL enough.
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The generation that came of age during the second worst economy in U.S. history, faced the very real threat of being gunned down in their classrooms and has been fighting a war for 18 years is "soft" because they don't watch the NFL enough.
When Chicos passes can we use some of those Scoop community funds to deliver his posts in a leather bond anthology to his kids?
Ya know for the fond memories they would want to preserve.
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I'm not disputing the data. I'm not rolling my eyes at the statistics.
Your adjectives however...
They stuck with me from the research. My boss used those same adjectives in describing the results, and she isn’t one to mince words either.
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The generation that came of age during the second worst economy in U.S. history, faced the very real threat of being gunned down in their classrooms and has been fighting a war for 18 years is "soft" because they don't watch the NFL enough.
Which makes you wonder when guns were far more prevalent for decades and that wasn’ypt happening, what changed. Hmm. But thanks for bringing politics into it....again
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https://www.cnn.com/2017/07/25/health/cte-nfl-players-brains-study/index.html
LOL. Waiting for you to go to this one. Any problem with your link? You know, for example all these people were having issues before they died and then families donated their brains. It would be like cancer patients donating bodies to a cancer org to show they died of cancer.
Your response to this rebuttal from 538.....
A paper published last year in the Journal of the American Medical Association found that among 111 brains from NFL players donated to a brain bank created to study the long-term effects of repetitive head trauma, 110 had CTE. Sounds bad. But as alarming as those numbers seem, they really can’t tell us much about the actual risk of CTE among football players, nor can they reveal how common the condition is among people who’ve played the game. If you wanted to know the true prevalence of CTE among NFL players, you’d have to check the entire population of NFL players for CTE. That’s impossible because right now, CTE can be definitively diagnosed only by looking at the brain post-mortem. And the the brains that were examined for the JAMA study didn’t end up in the brain bank by chance — they were donated, for the most part, because the deceased’s next of kin suspected he might have had CTE.
So the statistical quandary remained: how to get a sense of the prevalence of CTE in the NFL? An analysis published last month in the journal Neurology tried to get around the problem of sample bias with what amounts to a thought experiment. Epidemiologists Zachary Binney1 and Kathleen Bachynski took what we know — that 99 percent of the NFL brains in the brain bank had CTE — and then tried to figure out what that could mean about the prevalence of CTE among the entire group of 1,142 former NFL players who died during the eight-year time frame during which the brain bank collected its samples (February 2008 to May 2016).2
The estimates vary depending on how completist you think the brain bank’s collection was. If you assumed that half of the brains from NFL players with CTE who died during the study period ended up in the brain bank, that would mean the prevalence of CTE in the broader group of deceased players was 19.3 percent, according to Binney and Bachynski’s calculations.3 On the other hand, if 90 percent of the brains with CTE were sent to the bank, the prevalence of CTE would be 10.7 percent. “I’m reasonably confident that it’s somewhere north of 10 percent, and I would not at all be surprised — and indeed it’s my best guess right now — that the prevalence is probably more in the 20 to 30 percent range,” Binney said.
But even if that’s correct and as many as 1 in 3 NFL players who were in the league at the same time as the players whose brains ended up in the JAMA study had CTE, that doesn’t mean that those numbers also apply to the current pool of players, said Bhramar Mukherjee, a biostatistician and epidemiologist at the University of Michigan’s School of Public Health. “The probability of developing CTE could be changing over time, because the protective gear and the style of play is changing over time.”
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I would agree that this next generation isn't as interested in football. IMO there are a number of reasons for this, including the pace of play and the violent nature of the game.
But why does that mean they are "softer?"
There are countless articles on why today’s generation is so soft and sensitive, from how they were raised, to a gazillion other things. My personal opinion is in how easy they had it growing up, and God forbid if constructive criticism was given the wrong way.
But i would invite you to read any number of them, or simply sit down with some students up there. Psychology Today periodical wrote a good piece on how we have raised a generation of wimps.
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Let's say it's nowhere near 90%.
Let's say it's 50% or 33% or 25% or, as the guy in the 538 article said, "probably more in the 20 to 30 percent range."
Only a truly soft person would refuse to have their kids risk a 3-in-10 or 1-5 chance at CTE.
Soft losers. Next thing you know, they won't let their kids play in traffic.
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Let's say it's nowhere near 90%.
Let's say it's 50% or 33% or 25% or, as the guy in the 538 article said, "probably more in the 20 to 30 percent range."
Only a truly soft person would refuse to have their kids risk a 3-in-10 or 1-5 chance at CTE.
Soft losers. Next thing you know, they won't let their kids play in traffic.
Again, we are talking about watching football, not playing it.
Furthermore, if you read, the number likely to go down with improved safety. Say it is 10% as the researchers said it could be despite the media running like chicken littles to publish the 99% garbage....go figure....what is the general population chance of CTE? A July article suggests maybe 6%.
Yes, it is heightened for football, but CTE is found in both athlete and non-athlete populations. No one is holding a gun to these guys playing hockey, football, heading a soccer ball, etc.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/06/190620153548.htm
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There are countless articles on why today’s generation is so soft and sensitive, from how they were raised, to a gazillion other things. My personal opinion is in how easy they had it growing up, and God forbid if constructive criticism was given the wrong way.
But i would invite you to read any number of them, or simply sit down with some students up there. Psychology Today periodical wrote a good piece on how we have raised a generation of wimps.
Any article that concludes that this generation is soft and full of wimps is useless.
And I have no idea what any of that has to do with football.
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Which makes you wonder when guns were far more prevalent for decades and that wasn’ypt happening, what changed. Hmm. But thanks for bringing politics into it....again
1. I'm not bringing politics into anything. I'm pointing out the stupidity of your comments.
2. You accusing anyone of politicizing threads around here sure is something.
3. I'd point out the errors of your first statement, but I've got more manly man things to do today than argue with you ... like sit in front of a TV and watch other men play a game.
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Again, we are talking about watching football, not playing it.
Furthermore, if you read, the number likely to go down with improved safety. Say it is 10% as the researchers said it could be despite the media running like chicken littles to publish the 99% garbage....go figure....what is the general population chance of CTE? A July article suggests maybe 6%.
Yes, it is heightened for football, but CTE is found in both athlete and non-athlete populations. No one is holding a gun to these guys playing hockey, football, heading a soccer ball, etc.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/06/190620153548.htm
You were the one who brought today's "Softer America" into the viewership equation, claiming "the data is stark."
Which data? The data that "proves" America is softer? The data that "proves" allegedly softer people don't watch football? Or mostly your opinion?
All's I know is that I sure wish all of the men in the country were as manly as you, Hoopaloop. Not to mention Mrs. Hoopaloop and the Hoopy Kids.
When one of your kids gets out of line, do you beat them to a bloody pulp and then, when they cry, do you say, "Shaddup or I'll really give you something to cry about!"?
Can't be raisin' no softies!
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Skol Vikings!
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You were the one who brought today's "Softer America" into the viewership equation, claiming "the data is stark."
Which data? The data that "proves" America is softer? The data that "proves" allegedly softer people don't watch football? Or mostly your opinion?
All's I know is that I sure wish all of the men in the country were as manly as you, Hoopaloop. Not to mention Mrs. Hoopaloop and the Hoopy Kids.
When one of your kids gets out of line, do you beat them to a bloody pulp and then, when they cry, do you say, "Shaddup or I'll really give you something to cry about!"?
Can't be raisin' no softies!
The research I am speaking of is those done on who watches football, and other sports, who doesn’t...and why they don’t. If you were following along you would know this.
I am not claiming to be any more of a man than anyone else. I honor my wife, I don’t cheat on her ever, love my kids, believe in God almighty, do my best to help my extended family as well as my friends and colleagues. Do I think we are softer as a people? Yes. Many reasons why, and that has nothing to do with football. Do I believe the aged in this country say we are softer....hell yes, and they are right.
You nonsense about beating the kids....just pure nonsense. Have a great day.
God Bless America
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Go Pokes
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Skol Vikings!
Who?
Mitch > Kirk
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Who?
Mitch > Kirk
Neither is good; could see the game going any number of ways.
Just saw Jennifer Lopez and Shakira are doing the halftime show at the Super Bowl. I approve.
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Let's say it's nowhere near 90%.
Let's say it's 50% or 33% or 25% or, as the guy in the 538 article said, "probably more in the 20 to 30 percent range."
Only a truly soft person would refuse to have their kids risk a 3-in-10 or 1-5 chance at CTE.
Soft losers. Next thing you know, they won't let their kids play in traffic.
More recent data says across all individuals there is a 6% chance you will have CTE. For people that play football beyond high school (college or NFL) it rises to around 19%, with it more prevalent the longer you play.
Your argument stands. Playing football beyond high school increases your chance of developing CTE by at least 3-fold.
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More recent data says across all individuals there is a 6% chance you will have CTE. For people that play football beyond high school (college or NFL) it rises to around 19%, with it more prevalent the longer you play.
Your argument stands. Playing football beyond high school increases your chance of developing CTE by at least 3-fold.
Actually 10% to 19%. And that is also based on players playing with older technology.
It is improper to say players of today will have 3X the rate, because we don’t know what the improvements made will do.
More categorically sad is the media running around with the 99% claim as they did and people believe if that bullshyte. I was waiting for someone to produce that article, I wasn’t disappointed for long.
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Actually 10% to 19%. And that is also based on players playing with older technology.
It is improper to say players of today will have 3X the rate, because we don’t know what the improvements made will do.
More categorically sad is the media running around with the 99% claim as they did and people believe if that bullshyte. I was waiting for someone to produce that article, I wasn’t disappointed for long.
My apologies. I only read the lay-person summary of the most recent data, where it said 19%.
I did go back and look at the original source material (should have done that the first time). The actual study shows that 47% of individuals that played football beyond high school had brain tissue consistent with CTE. Simply playing high school football doubled the risk of developing CTE.
It was actually significantly worse than I had thought, and significantly worse than the conservative estimate that MU82 had supposed.
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Neither is good; could see the game going any number of ways.
Just saw Jennifer Lopez and Shakira are doing the halftime show at the Super Bowl. I approve.
Don't no if ya kan sey dis heer, butt, Lopez' tuchus is two big, aina?
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One play, one call, can change the arc of a season. IMO, that just happened to the Lions. We will see if they are resilient enough to bounce back.
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One play, one call, can change the arc of a season. IMO, that just happened to the Lions. We will see if they are resilient enough to bounce back.
Thought the same thing. Really tough sequence.
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No Smith and no Hicks vs Vikings run. Yikes.
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One play, one call, can change the arc of a season. IMO, that just happened to the Lions. We will see if they are resilient enough to bounce back.
Or two calls.
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Or two calls.
They seem to keep stepping back up. Pretty cool play by Coleman, where he actually intentionally let the player get up so he could go for the strip.
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So, what should the NFL do about Vontaze Burfict (https://sports.yahoo.com/not-a-repeat-raiders-lb-vontaze-burfict-ejected-for-another-dirty-hit-180836986.html)? Honestly, that hit should result in a six-figure fine and a multiple game suspension; it should cost him seven figures. He either needs to be made to understand that you can't deliver hits like that, or he needs to be out of the league.
Edited to add another link (https://deadspin.com/vontaze-burfict-ejected-for-particularly-heinous-late-h-1838596827) with more views.
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So, what should the NFL do about Vontaze Burfict (https://sports.yahoo.com/not-a-repeat-raiders-lb-vontaze-burfict-ejected-for-another-dirty-hit-180836986.html)? Honestly, that hit should result in a six-figure fine and a multiple game suspension; it should cost him seven figures. He either needs to be made to understand that you can't deliver hits like that, or he needs to be out of the league.
Because of his history that looks worse than it is. The hit on Williams (packers) on Thursday was significantly more heinous.
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Because of his history that looks worse than it is. The hit on Williams (packers) on Thursday was significantly more heinous.
But you cannot ignore the history. And it was really bad. I didn't see the game the other night, so I can't comment on it. I don't doubt it. I posted another link (https://deadspin.com/vontaze-burfict-ejected-for-particularly-heinous-late-h-1838596827) in the original post with more views of the Burfict hit. Like I said, it was really bad.
Edited to add: just watched the hit on Williams. You were right. Awful, awful hit.
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So, what should the NFL do about Vontaze Burfict (https://sports.yahoo.com/not-a-repeat-raiders-lb-vontaze-burfict-ejected-for-another-dirty-hit-180836986.html)? Honestly, that hit should result in a six-figure fine and a multiple game suspension; it should cost him seven figures. He either needs to be made to understand that you can't deliver hits like that, or he needs to be out of the league.
Edited to add another link (https://deadspin.com/vontaze-burfict-ejected-for-particularly-heinous-late-h-1838596827) with more views.
Suspend him for the year. As blatant of head hunting and launching as you’ll see from a guy who clearly hasn’t learned his lesson.
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Mitch maybe done for a while.
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Big win for my Panthers. I know none of y'all watched the game, but ESPN and others will be including final-drive plays by McCaffrey and Allen on plays of the week. No such thing as a bad road win, and Houston is not a bad team. Thrilled to be back to 2-2 given the circumstance.
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Because of his history that looks worse than it is. The hit on Williams (packers) on Thursday was significantly more heinous.
How was the hit on Williams worse? It was just dumb and late. He didn’t spear him with his head down or try to maim him. More stupid football like pushing a guy who crossed the sideline 2 steps before.
Burfict literally tried to take Doyle’s head off. Current personal foul hits are for contact to the head, leading with the helmet, or launching your body. He did all 3.
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Mitch maybe done for a while.
Given the weapons on offense, just needing someone who can reliably get the ball to Robinson/Miller/Cohen/Montgomery, Daniels is probably not a huge step back given Mitch’s accuracy issues so far this year
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Mitch maybe done for a while.
That could help Chicago. Daniels is the better QB.
Trubisky has more physical skills. Daniels has more football skills.
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Don't no if ya kan sey dis heer, butt, Lopez' tuchus is two big, aina?
Maybe for u bro
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To the surprise of nobody but the Vikings, Kirk Cousins is not the answer.
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My apologies. I only read the lay-person summary of the most recent data, where it said 19%.
I did go back and look at the original source material (should have done that the first time). The actual study shows that 47% of individuals that played football beyond high school had brain tissue consistent with CTE. Simply playing high school football doubled the risk of developing CTE.
It was actually significantly worse than I had thought, and significantly worse than the conservative estimate that MU82 had supposed.
The estimates vary depending on how completist you think the brain bank’s collection was. If you assumed that half of the brains from NFL players with CTE who died during the study period ended up in the brain bank, that would mean the prevalence of CTE in the broader group of deceased players was 19.3 percent, according to Binney and Bachynski’s calculations.3 On the other hand, if 90 percent of the brains with CTE were sent to the bank, the prevalence of CTE would be 10.7 percent. “I’m reasonably confident that it’s somewhere north of 10 percent, and I would not at all be surprised — and indeed it’s my best guess right now — that the prevalence is probably more in the 20 to 30 percent range,” Binney said.
But even if that’s correct and as many as 1 in 3 NFL players who were in the league at the same time as the players whose brains ended up in the JAMA study had CTE, that doesn’t mean that those numbers also apply to the current pool of players, said Bhramar Mukherjee, a biostatistician and epidemiologist at the University of Michigan’s School of Public Health. “The probability of developing CTE could be changing over time, because the protective gear and the style of play is changing over time.”
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Big win for my Panthers. I know none of y'all watched the game, but ESPN and others will be including final-drive plays by McCaffrey and Allen on plays of the week. No such thing as a bad road win, and Houston is not a bad team. Thrilled to be back to 2-2 given the circumstance.
Panthers better without Cam....
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To the surprise of nobody but the Vikings, Kirk Cousins is not the answer.
$84M guaranteed for 3 years of that.
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$84M guaranteed for 3 years of that.
We are puking.
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How was the hit on Williams worse? It was just dumb and late. He didn’t spear him with his head down or try to maim him. More stupid football like pushing a guy who crossed the sideline 2 steps before.
Burfict literally tried to take Doyle’s head off. Current personal foul hits are for contact to the head, leading with the helmet, or launching your body. He did all 3.
Seriously? Williams was stood up, and wrapped up. Couldn't move and the defender lowered his head (late) and targeted his head and launched himself into a completely defenseless and stopped Williams, after the play was already over.
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Panthers better without Cam....
You're almost as funny as you are clueless!
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You're almost as funny as you are clueless!
As long as Cam plays injured like he did last year and this year, they are better off with him not playing.
0-2 this year playing injured
What did they finish last year in games he played injured? 0-5? I cannot recall.
Unless healthy, he hurts his team out there. He is a great player when healthy, but he isn’t right now and hasn’t been for quite some time.
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As long as Cam plays injured like he did last year and this year, they are better off with him not playing.
0-2 this year playing injured
What did they finish last year in games he played injured? 0-5? I cannot recall.
Unless healthy, he hurts his team out there. He is a great player when healthy, but he isn’t right now and hasn’t been for quite some time.
That's not what you said the first time; that isn't even what you implied. But sure, the Panthers are better with a healthy, decent alternative than a badly injured Cam Newton.
The same is true for pretty much any team and any QB.
Here in Charlotte, when Cam was healthy, leading the team to the Super Bowl and winning the MVP, more "fans" than one might think possible actually preferred 106-year-old Derek Anderson. Hmm. I wonder why.
Anyhoo, Cam's replacement, Kyle Allen, played very well against a horrendous AZ team last week, but yesterday he lost 3 fumbles and was unable to move the offense most of the game despite yet another brilliant performance by McCaffrey. Allen did make a couple of very nice throws - including a late one when he somehow avoided being beheaded by Watt and delivered a pass that helped set up the clinching FG.
As backup QBs go, he seems decent enough, though there isn't much body of work to go on yeet. But I sure hope Cam comes back healthy in a few weeks.
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That's not what you said the first time; that isn't even what you implied. But sure, the Panthers are better with a healthy, decent alternative than a badly injured Cam Newton.
The same is true for pretty much any team and any QB.
Here in Charlotte, when Cam was healthy, leading the team to the Super Bowl and winning the MVP, more "fans" than one might think possible actually preferred 106-year-old Derek Anderson. Hmm. I wonder why.
Anyhoo, Cam's replacement, Kyle Allen, played very well against a horrendous AZ team last week, but yesterday he lost 3 fumbles and was unable to move the offense most of the game despite yet another brilliant performance by McCaffrey. Allen did make a couple of very nice throws - including a late one when he somehow avoided being beheaded by Watt and delivered a pass that helped set up the clinching FG.
As backup QBs go, he seems decent enough, though there isn't much body of work to go on yeet. But I sure hope Cam comes back healthy in a few weeks.
I said Panthers better without Cam....
I stand by it. Feel free to prove my opinion wrong. Spend hours on it if you wish.
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I said Panthers better without Cam....
I stand by it. Feel free to prove my opinion wrong. Spend hours on it if you wish.
Your take is terrible.
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I said Panthers better without Cam....
I stand by it. Feel free to prove my opinion wrong. Spend hours on it if you wish.
Arguing for sake of arguing. Exhausting.
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Your take is terrible.
If you think the Panthers are better with him playing hurt, have at it. They weren’t at the end of last year and not this year. Needs to get healthy.
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America better without Catholics.
(Note, I neither said nor even implied that America is better only without Catholic priests who have been proven guilty of molesting children, but it was obvious that's what I was saying. And if you don't agree that's what I obviously was saying, I'll just keep arguing for the sake of arguing.)
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If you think the Panthers are better with him playing hurt, have at it. They weren’t at the end of last year and not this year. Needs to get healthy.
That's not what you said.
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That's not what you said.
Panthers better without Cam Newton....
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Your take is terrible.
When you have one of the biggest Cam Newton haters telling you that your anti-Cam take is awful, you probably should sit a few plays out and enter concussion protocol.
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When you have one of the biggest Cam Newton haters telling you that your anti-Cam take is awful, you probably should sit a few plays out and enter concussion protocol.
Yup.
Panthers better without Cam Newton....
Yeah. Your take sucks.
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Suspend him for the year. As blatant of head hunting and launching as you’ll see from a guy who clearly hasn’t learned his lesson.
Nailed it.
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Without pay as well. Good move by the NFL.
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It’s funny how many people do not understand what the meaning or usage of an ellipsis is
Panthers better off without Cam.....
Truly amazing. English was taught in journalism school, yes? LOL
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Without pay as well. Good move by the NFL.
Agreed. Slowly but surely they are "getting it".
Its funny, I would bet any amount of money that Burfict has an undiagnosed personality disorder, which is usually the source of such absurd anger and violence issues. But back to our CTE discussion, for so long, football has encouraged that sort of behavior. Obliterating guys across the middle. Taking people's heads off. Its was wildly cheered and promoted. Chuck Cecil was a lunatic who literally hit like Burfict did every game and was still a Pro Bowler before it finally started to catch up with him later in his career. Perfect place if you had anger issues and wanted to "take it out" on someone.
The NFL realized the future of the game depended on removing that element, and they go overboard sometimes, but overall the direction is right. Burfict has been a liability since college. He should have been a top 2 round pick and went undrafted cause he was such an a**hole. Getting a second chance and multiple nice contracts hasn't dissuaded him at all. Good riddance
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It’s funny how many people do not understand what the meaning or usage of an ellipsis is
Panthers better off without Cam.....
Truly amazing. English was taught in journalism school, yes? LOL
Because I don't want to bog down the NFL thread by getting wrapped up in yet another typically ridiculous hoopaloop argument for the sake of argument, I will only say that a properly used ellipsis is almost always only three dots, and that the way you used it in this example generally would not be approved by grammar experts.
https://literaryterms.net/ellipsis/
If you would like to learn more about proper use of an ellipsis, either start a new thread dedicated to grammar, or PM me.
As for the intellectual dishonesty you so routinely display, and have displayed again here ... that also would be more appropriate in a different thread. Perhaps one in which you are tearfully begging Scoop forgiveness and promising to stop being such a hoopalooper.
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As a Minnesotan, I'm pleased the Vikings are 2-2 and we can stop watching them this season.
Such a time-saver knowing this in September.
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Because I don't want to bog down the NFL thread by getting wrapped up in yet another typically ridiculous hoopaloop argument for the sake of argument, I will only say that a properly used ellipsis is almost always only three dots, and that the way you used it in this example generally would not be approved by grammar experts.
https://literaryterms.net/ellipsis/
If you would like to learn more about proper use of an ellipsis, either start a new thread dedicated to grammar, or PM me.
As for the intellectual dishonesty you so routinely display, and have displayed again here ... that also would be more appropriate in a different thread. Perhaps one in which you are tearfully begging Scoop forgiveness and promising to stop being such a hoopalooper.
The ellipsis definition "the omission from speech or writing of a word or words that are superfluous or able to be understood from contextual clues." Apparently "Panthers better off without Cam..." apparently the contextual clues didn't go off for you and others. LOL.
3 or 4 dots
Using the Ellipsis
The ellipsis is used to indicate the omission of words in the middle of a quoted sentence or the omission of sentences within a quoted paragraph. In creative writing, the ellipsis functions to indicate that the speaker has trailed off and left a sentence or thought unfinished.
The ellipsis can consist of either three or four periods, or dots. A single dot is called an ellipsis point. An ellipsis that indicates the omission of one or more words within a sentence consists of three spaced dots. In this case, in addition to the spaces between the dots, we put a space before the first ellipsis point and after the last one as well.
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The ellipsis definition "the omission from speech or writing of a word or words that are superfluous or able to be understood from contextual clues." Apparently "Panthers better off without Cam..." apparently the contextual clues didn't go off for you and others. LOL.
3 or 4 dots
Using the Ellipsis
The ellipsis is used to indicate the omission of words in the middle of a quoted sentence or the omission of sentences within a quoted paragraph. In creative writing, the ellipsis functions to indicate that the speaker has trailed off and left a sentence or thought unfinished.
The ellipsis can consist of either three or four periods, or dots. A single dot is called an ellipsis point. An ellipsis that indicates the omission of one or more words within a sentence consists of three spaced dots. In this case, in addition to the spaces between the dots, we put a space before the first ellipsis point and after the last one as well.
Your take is terrible. Debating the English language doesn't save you from your terrible take.
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As a Minnesotan, I'm pleased the Vikings are 2-2 and we can stop watching them this season.
Such a time-saver knowing this in September.
Man that has to be a frustrating team. So many really nice pieces, but y'all vastly overpaid for a mediocre QB and Zimmer seems incredibly stubborn with his offensive approach. A staunch commitment to the run only works with a lead. You fall behind by 10 points against a decent defense and you're in a world of trouble.
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Nobody cares because it is the Lions and it will always be the Lions, but on the final Hail Mary, Kansas City was allowed to knock the Lions receiver to the ground while the ball was in the air and the receiver was preparing to go up for it. According to the NFL, they looked at the play but decided to not bring the teams back out onto the field because everybody knows certain things are allowed defensively on Hail Mary jump balls. Apparently tackling, if the Lions are on offense. No biggy. Just another opportunity for a rule to be more clearly defined after it hurts the Lions.
Watch the bottom of the screen between the 10 and 5 as the ball starts coming down.
https://twitter.com/zachswies/status/1178410417208594432?s=20
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Nobody cares because it is the Lions and it will always be the Lions, but on the final Hail Mary, Kansas City was allowed to knock the Lions receiver to the ground while the ball was in the air and the receiver was preparing to go up for it. According to the NFL, they looked at the play but decided to not bring the teams back out onto the field because everybody knows certain things are allowed defensively on Hail Mary jump balls. Apparently tackling, if the Lions are on offense. No biggy. Just another opportunity for a rule to be more clearly defined after it hurts the Lions.
Watch the bottom of the screen between the 10 and 5 as the ball starts coming down.
https://twitter.com/zachswies/status/1178410417208594432?s=20
Thinking there is a conspiracy against the Lions is silly.
As for this particular situation, I think the officiating statement and actions is worse than the call or lack thereof. He wasn't "tackled". Jones looks to initiate the contact when he's trying to find the ball and Sorenson keeps running. He didn't even push or extend his arms. Attempting to change direction with his momentum going the other way is the reason Jones went down. Thats probably a no-call even on a normal long pass. The NFL head of officiating said he didn't see PI after the game. The only people I can see upset are Lions-affliated, everyone neutral thinks it was fine.
But it was definitely bundled with their opting not to do a review and making flimsy statements. Lions fans still would have said they were screwed, but there is more than enough to uphold the no call on the field and the officials at least wouldn't have looked lazy and incompetent.
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Your take is terrible. Debating the English language doesn't save you from your terrible take.
Your inability to read it and understand that Cam in his current state is what I was stating and thus the ... even helping you by saying Cam is a great player, but that also was lost.
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Packers get 10 days to prepare for Cowboys playing late Sunday on the road. Got to give the edge to the Packers, especially with the two big injuries Cowboys took last night.
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Thinking there is a conspiracy against the Lions is silly.
As for this particular situation, I think the officiating statement and actions is worse than the call or lack thereof. He wasn't "tackled". Jones looks to initiate the contact when he's trying to find the ball and Sorenson keeps running. He didn't even push or extend his arms. Attempting to change direction with his momentum going the other way is the reason Jones went down. Thats probably a no-call even on a normal long pass. The NFL head of officiating said he didn't see PI after the game. The only people I can see upset are Lions-affliated, everyone neutral thinks it was fine.
But it was definitely bundled with their opting not to do a review and making flimsy statements. Lions fans still would have said they were screwed, but there is more than enough to uphold the no call on the field and the officials at least wouldn't have looked lazy and incompetent.
I didn't notice it in real time and I wouldn't expect it to be called anyway. However, the NFL brought it up.
https://twitter.com/KenKalDRW/status/1178473688158687232?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1178473688158687232&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.mlive.com%2Flions%2F2019%2F09%2Flions-have-themselves-to-blame-for-loss-not-officials.html
Ironically, same guy who had the flag picked up in the Dallas playoff game. Referenced below.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_yLPJp3-c70
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Roquan Smith situation is interesting and (pardon the pun) bears watching. The car accident internet reporting was bogus. I'm as big a mental health advocate as their is, and if he needs help, he should first and foremost get it before playing football. I think the Bears handled the perceived situation awkwardly from a timing perspective. I think they could have given him more cover and came up with a phony hamstring injury or something and listed him as out on Saturday.
I say all that not knowing anything that happened to the guy, I hope it's not something criminal that happened Saturday evening, I can't imagine it would be since Saturday night the team stays at a hotel downtown. Be interesting to see if he travels to London with the team on Thursday.
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Nailed it.
I was happy to see that. I thought that was appropriate, but honestly didn't think they'd go that far.
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Roquan Smith situation is interesting and (pardon the pun) bears watching. The car accident internet reporting was bogus. I'm as big a mental health advocate as their is, and if he needs help, he should first and foremost get it before playing football. I think the Bears handled the perceived situation awkwardly from a timing perspective. I think they could have given him more cover and came up with a phony hamstring injury or something and listed him as out on Saturday.
Here's the thing... If it is a mental health issue, covering it up with a phony injury is a terrible move. This is a league that still has many issues in dealing with players mental health and stigmas that very much still exist. I get your point in the short-term, but at some point the full story will come out. If the team lied and used a fake injury for cover, it looks callous and does Roquan no favors long-term.
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Here's the thing... If it is a mental health issue, covering it up with a phony injury is a terrible move. This is a league that still has many issues in dealing with players mental health and stigmas that very much still exist. I get your point in the short-term, but at some point the full story will come out. If the team lied and used a fake injury for cover, it looks callous and does Roquan no favors long-term.
On top of all this, it's against NFL rules to lie about an injury. I doubt the league would come down hard on the Bears under these circumstances, but as you say, it makes no sense to lie when the truth is going to come out eventually.
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On top of all this, it's against NFL rules to lie about an injury. I doubt the league would come down hard on the Bears under these circumstances, but as you say, it makes no sense to lie when the truth is going to come out eventually.
Everyone knows the injury report, or lack there of, is a total joke. Cam Newton wasn't even on the injury report for Weeks 1 and 2, when he was clearly injured.
I agree the truth is going to come out, but the Bears didn't do themselves or Roquan any favors in the timing of their announcement, and Smith was on the sidelines for yesterday's game. The reports out there are they knew most of the week something was wrong with Smith, and internally they made the decision to deactivate him Saturday night. Saying at 1:45 pm that he's "doubtful" is ridiculous at that point. I'm 100% behind Smith getting the help he appears to need, whatever that may be. I just don't think the Bears did Smith, or themselves, any favors in how this played out thus far. I honestly don't know in the 1:45 pm PR announcement, with the inactives list being due 20 minutes later, how Smith would have gone from "doubtful" to active. Just say he's out at that point.
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So how does hippa come to play in the NFL that releases all player injuries to the public? Especially from a mental health perspective
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So how does hippa come to play in the NFL that releases all player injuries to the public? Especially from a mental health perspective
Probably because the players consent to it via the CBA and/or their individual contracts.
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I agree the truth is going to come out, but the Bears didn't do themselves or Roquan any favors in the timing of their announcement, and Smith was on the sidelines for yesterday's game. The reports out there are they knew most of the week something was wrong with Smith, and internally they made the decision to deactivate him Saturday night. Saying at 1:45 pm that he's "doubtful" is ridiculous at that point. I'm 100% behind Smith getting the help he appears to need, whatever that may be. I just don't think the Bears did Smith, or themselves, any favors in who this played out thus far. I honestly don't know in the 1:45 pm PR announcement, with the inactives list being due 20 minutes later, how Smith would have gone from "doubtful" to active. Just say he's out at that point.
Does it really matter? Whether he was labeled doubtful or just out and whether it was announced Saturday night or Sunday afternoon, his last minute absence was always going to create a stir. That story was always going to be there, no matter how the Bears framed it on the injury report. And for him being at the game, there would be a similar amount of speculation if he wasn't there.
Look, there's plenty to criticize the Bears organization for. Plenty. So far, I have a hard time finding fault in how they are handling this situation.
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america is better without teachers
(Note, I neither said nor even implied that America is better only without public school teachers who have been proven guilty of molesting children, but it was obvious that's what I was saying. And if you don't agree that's what I obviously was saying, I'll just keep arguing for the sake of arguing.)
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america is better without teachers
(Note, I neither said nor even implied that America is better only without public school teachers who have been proven guilty of molesting children, but it was obvious that's what I was saying. And if you don't agree that's what I obviously was saying, I'll just keep arguing for the sake of arguing.)
Thanks Boo Boo.
And God Bless America
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Thanks Boo Boo.
And God Bless America
and what's in your wallet? "in God we trust" eyn'a? and don't forget about the foxholes either-a lot of sudden converts lookin for a hug ;)
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Good god, the Bengs are worse than the Dolphins, Jets or Raiders, except without a plan like the Skins. The MLB tanking strategy doesn’t play in the parity NFL. How was this a MNF game?
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Packers get 10 days to prepare for Cowboys playing late Sunday on the road. Got to give the edge to the Packers, especially with the two big injuries Cowboys took last night.
Disagree. Packers sucks donkey nuts this year.
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Disagree. Packers sucks donkey nuts this year.
Packers going to have issues with Zeke. Without Adams, not sure if AR12 will be able to keep the offense up with Dallas.
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Packers going to have issues with Zeke. Without Adams, not sure if AR12 will be able to keep the offense up with Dallas.
Agreed, I'm guessing they stack the box but Alexander on Cooper and force Dak and his receivers to beat the defense 1 on 1. If the Packers can keep them under 20 points they win because I think Adams will play and Dallas' secondary isn't great so the offense will be ok.
I just don't have a good read on Dallas because they've largely played garbage teams.
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That sure was one sh1tty roughing-the-QB call against Clay Matthews on Seattle's decisive drive yesterday.
It was first down, and Seattle had plenty of time to score anyway. The Rams never looked like they were going to stop Russell Wilson. But still, that was a horrible, horrible call.
If you're reviewing interference calls, I don't know why you shouldn't review those. They often are game-changers.
Matthews maybe has been victimized by more bogus roughing calls than any player in history.
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Bears D looking bad early.
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Bears D looking bad early.
Their everything looks bad so far. Raiders had five sacks in their first four games. They have three at halftime today.
Makes you wonder if the Bears should have flown over earlier. They look lethargic. And losing Hicks doesn't help.
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Let’s call it what it is, Bears are getting their asses kicked up and down the field. Total domination by Oakland.
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Mason Rudolph of the Steelers knocked out cold.
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Mason Rudolph of the Steelers knocked out cold.
I honestly thought he might have died, I’m not joking.
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If the bears lose Mack to injury, they’ll struggle to be a .500 team.
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I honestly thought he might have died, I’m not joking.
The way the players reacted, I had the initial thought as well.
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The way the players reacted, I had the initial thought as well.
Medical cart was broken, so Rudolph had to be carried to the locker room. Unbelievable.
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Medical cart was broken, so Rudolph had to be carried to the locker room. Unbelievable.
That’s NCAA-level incompetence.
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Let’s call it what it is, Bears are getting their asses kicked up and down the field. Total domination by Oakland.
Bears got a horseshoe up their rear in the second half, though.
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Bears got a horseshoe up their rear in the second half, though.
That roughing the passer call was garbage.
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That’s NCAA-level incompetence.
Did the ncaa run over your dog? Are you a former washed up athlete that felt jobbed and you were the reason they came to see you but you didn’t get your due?
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Did the ncaa run over your dog? Are you a former washed up athlete that felt jobbed and you were the reason they came to see you but you didn’t get your due?
Meds!!
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Let’s see if the horseshoe traveled across the pond for the Bears
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Appears it did not travel
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Have Packers special teams gotten even worse than last year?
Didn’t think it was possible.
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Meds!!
You usually scream racist, now meds. Is this progress for you?
At any rate, every NCAA D1 football and basketball game is required to have emergency personnel on site. Ambulance services. I’m sure Rico knew this, or maybe he didn’t, but just wants to smear them anyway.
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You usually scream racist, now meds. Is this progress for you?
At any rate, every NCAA D1 football and basketball game is required to have emergency personnel on site. Ambulance services. I’m sure Rico knew this, or maybe he didn’t, but just wants to smear them anyway.
No, the NCAA is garbage. $44 million in TV money going towards the players in the B1G and Purdue
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.detroitnews.com/amp/107045682
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I’ve said it here before, but Matt Nagy is a complete fraud. Bears are 22 games into the Nagy era, he’s supposed to be an offensive guru...what’s their identity as an offense? They spent all kinds of capital a year ago on receivers, this year all kinds of capital on the running game. Mitch has regressed (I’ve always disliked the pick), there’s nothing to the offense other than an occasional gadget play.
They’re terribly undisciplined, his clock management leaves all kinds of things to be desired. I had issues with him last year, was hoping an offseason of learning from his mistakes would help. It hasn’t.
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Disagree. Packers sucks donkey nuts this year.
Well, you were wrong.
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Panthers better off without Cam Newton...
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Panthers better off without Cam Newton...
Your take continues to be dumb...
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Pay the man Jerry.
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Pay the man Jerry.
Dak AND Jason.
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That roughing the passer call was garbage.
Not as bad a call as the one again Gary on a key possession.
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Not as bad a call as the one again Gary on a key possession.
NFL officiating is disgraceful. Just brutal
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Just think how good Christian McCaffery would have been had he not skipped his bowl game.
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Just think how good Christian McCaffery would have been had he not skipped his bowl game.
I saw him play in the Rose Bowl against a joke of a Big Ten team and Stanford was up like 21-0 in the first few minutes it seemed. He's good, I just hope the Panthers can recover and win some games without injured Cam Newton....looks daunting.
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Pay the man Jerry.
The Clapping Ginger clap again today? I was watching the Pacific Air Show and didn't watch, knew the Cowboys would lose as they will continue to do so with the Clapping Ginger and Jerrah at the helm.
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The Clapping Ginger clap again today? I was watching the Pacific Air Show and didn't watch, knew the Cowboys would lose as they will continue to do so with the Clapping Ginger and Jerrah at the helm.
You "knew" they were going to lose? Hope you got 2-1 on the money line for a bundle. "Sure things" getting odds like that are hard to find.
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Panthers better off without Cam Newton...
Actually, I'm not sure they wouldn't be better if Cam could play on one leg than the way his backup has played these last two games.
The kid fumbles almost every time he is hit -- he has fumbled 7 times in 3 games, losing 4 of them. Today, his passing was extremely inaccurate. I'm hoping he'll start the game in London vs. TB next Sunday and then Cam will be ready to play again after the bye week. The Panthers need him.
The Panthers have been winning mostly because McCaffrey has become the best back in the NFL. They won today largely because the Jags' replacement QB with the porn mustache handed them 14 points.
You act like you know everything about everything, so it's hardly surprising that you believe you are an expert on the Panthers, too. You must have seen 20 seconds worth of highlights or something, so obviously you're qualified.
Scoop much better without hoopaloop. No ellipsis needed.
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You "knew" they were going to lose? Hope you got 2-1 on the money line for a bundle. "Sure things" getting odds like that are hard to find.
My son is a huge Packers fan, we spoke on Saturday and I congratulated him 24 hours before the game. Rodgers dominates in Texas and Dallas is a good, but not great team. We usually bet on the game, he’ll we usually go to the game. I said no bet this year, I am not interested in a sure loss. He even offered me points...nope.
I made my call Sept 30th
Packers get 10 days to prepare for Cowboys playing late Sunday on the road. Got to give the edge to the Packers, especially with the two big injuries Cowboys took last night.
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Actually, I'm not sure they wouldn't be better if Cam could play on one leg than the way his backup has played these last two games.
The kid fumbles almost every time he is hit -- he has fumbled 7 times in 3 games, losing 4 of them. Today, his passing was extremely inaccurate. I'm hoping he'll start the game in London vs. TB next Sunday and then Cam will be ready to play again after the bye week. The Panthers need him.
The Panthers have been winning mostly because McCaffrey has become the best back in the NFL. They won today largely because the Jags' replacement QB with the porn mustache handed them 14 points.
You act like you know everything about everything, so it's hardly surprising that you believe you are an expert on the Panthers, too. You must have seen 20 seconds worth of highlights or something, so obviously you're qualified.
Scoop much better without hoopaloop. No ellipsis needed.
I know nothing about Erin Andrews...can you help? Or coaching girls middle school basketball.
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I know nothing about Erin Andrews...can you help? Or coaching girls middle school basketball.
Sure.
After Erin Andrews realized she had to comport herself more professionally to be taken seriously as a journalist, she became one of the better sideline reporters on TV. I have never watched one second of Dancing with the Stars, so I'll let others determine if Andrews is any good hosting that show. She has overcome quite a bit of adversity -- including cervical cancer and an incident in which some creep named Michael Barrett (not the former Cubs catcher of the same name) spied on her at a hotel -- but she has gone on to become quite wealthy, and she is now married to former NHL player Jarret Stoll. I am happy for her success.
Rather than bogging down the NFL thread with your typical dribble, you could have learned all of the above (and more) here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erin_Andrews
As for coaching middle school girls basketball, or any other basketball, one thing I am constantly learning is how much more I need to learn.
Go Panthers!
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Ahem...
https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=56889.msg1104825#msg1104825
(Browns fans can thank me when they make a big comeback in the second half.)
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Sure.
After Erin Andrews realized she had to comport herself more professionally to be taken seriously as a journalist, she became one of the better sideline reporters on TV. I have never watched one second of Dancing with the Stars, so I'll let others determine if Andrews is any good hosting that show. She has overcome quite a bit of adversity -- including cervical cancer and an incident in which some creep named Michael Barrett (not the former Cubs catcher of the same name) spied on her at a hotel -- but she has gone on to become quite wealthy, and she is now married to former NHL player Jarret Stoll. I am happy for her success.
Rather than bogging down the NFL thread with your typical dribble, you could have learned all of the above (and more) here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erin_Andrews
As for coaching middle school girls basketball, or any other basketball, one thing I am constantly learning is how much more I need to learn.
Go Panthers!
All because you set her on the right path. Thoughts and prayers were answered.
God bless America!
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All because you set her on the right path. Thoughts and prayers were answered.
God bless America!
God Bless America!
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All because you set her on the right path. Thoughts and prayers were answered.
God bless America!
Deep pretentious bow.
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Watching the “They Could Have Been Bears’ Quarterbacks Bowl” in absence of a Packer game this afternoon.
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Panthers better off without Cam Newton...
Good to see ESPN now saying what I said...healthy Allen better than partially injured Cam. ESPN speculating Cam may be gone after this year. Several Panthers players saying this is Allen’s team now.
Allen has yet to throw an interception this year. 4-0 as the QB.
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Watching the “They Could Have Been Bears’ Quarterbacks Bowl” in absence of a Packer game this afternoon.
Bears fans can dream today. Packer fans can dream as well - for many more Mitch-filled years.
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Panthers better off without Cam Newton...
Good to see ESPN now saying what I said...healthy Allen better than partially injured Cam. ESPN speculating Cam may be gone after this year. Several Panthers players saying this is Allen’s team now.
Allen has yet to throw an interception this year. 4-0 as the QB.
Except that’s not what you said lol.
Great analysis though. A team is better with their backup when their starter isn’t healthy enough to play. You really are the genius you want everyone to know you are.
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Panthers better off without Cam Newton...
Good to see ESPN now saying what I said...healthy Allen better than partially injured Cam. ESPN speculating Cam may be gone after this year. Several Panthers players saying this is Allen’s team now.
Allen has yet to throw an interception this year. 4-0 as the QB.
To be fair, initially you did not say anything about his injury status.
You later amended.
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To be fair, initially you did not say anything about his injury status.
You later amended.
But but but...
We should’ve all known what he meant and not just what he actually stated!
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Saints are 4-0 since Teddy Bridgewater took over. They’re a better team with him than Drew Brees
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Hot take: Washington should have let Fins make that two point conversion.
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Watching the “They Could Have Been Bears’ Quarterbacks Bowl” in absence of a Packer game this afternoon.
Mahomes was never going that that high. But I wanted Watson all year leading up to the draft and seeing him succeed hurts on a regular basis
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Hot take: Washington should have let Fins make that two point conversion.
Hoping Bill Callahan goes 7-4 and gets the job and the Redskins wallow in more mediocrity for another 4-5 years
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Except that’s not what you said lol.
Great analysis though. A team is better with their backup when their starter isn’t healthy enough to play. You really are the genius you want everyone to know you are.
This.
To be fair, initially you did not say anything about his injury status.
You later amended.
And this.
Saints are 4-0 since Teddy Bridgewater took over. They’re a better team with him than Drew Brees
And this.
Hoopaloop be hoopaloopin' = Troll be trollin'
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I’ll squat on this one!
Boiz better without Dak..................
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Cowboys are terrible. Dak isn't exactly playing his way into a big contract.
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Cowboys are terrible. Dak isn't exactly playing his way into a big contract.
Not terrible, but same old same old. Overpaying their top players and when the top players cannot play, they have no depth. That has been the story for two decades. Then the clapping ginger on the sidelines...clapping and clapping. They have continued to go after elite guys at certain positions, but when they don't play (like 4 of them today), their drop off on the depth chart is staggering. The formula hasn't worked in a long time.
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To be fair, initially you did not say anything about his injury status.
You later amended.
I said Panthers better off without Cam Newton...
The ellipsis mattered then and matters today...which led to the entire ellipsis comment since people apparently didn't know what it meant and instead concentrated on whether it was 3 or 4 dots. LOL. I did the ellipsis on purpose and predictably got the reaction I expected as people lost their minds. Meanwhile, it still holds true. Since last year and into this year, with Cam 0-8 and 13 interceptions. Allen 4-0 and zero interceptions.
Panthers better off without Cam Newton...true then, true today.
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Hoopaloop be hoopaloopin' = Troll be trollin'
Only problem with this is, of course, you are wrong. Bridgewater lost the first game without Brees against the Rams...yes, I know he didn't start. Saints were also fine with Brees and with Teddy. The Panthers have sucked with Cam since last year playing hurt, and into this year. Big difference...Cam has been a net negative to the team since middle of last year. Brees has not. No comparison.
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Not terrible, but same old same old. Overpaying their top players and when the top players cannot play, they have no depth. That has been the story for two decades. Then the clapping ginger on the sidelines...clapping and clapping. They have continued to go after elite guys at certain positions, but when they don't play (like 4 of them today), their drop off on the depth chart is staggering. The formula hasn't worked in a long time.
They are down 21-9 against the Jets, and look like they don't have an offense or defense. That is terrible, the rest is just excuses.
Also, Dak just doesn't see the field well. He misses wide open receivers too often for the NFL level.
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They are down 21-9 against the Jets, and look like they don't have an offense or defense. That is terrible, the rest is just excuses.
Also, Dak just doesn't see the field well. He misses wide open receivers too often for the NFL level.
Clapping Ginger. Dak doesn't play defense.
You are right, Dak is about a 4th round player which is where he was drafted. Whether or not excuses or not, they have huge drop offs at certain positions because they do not have depth...it has been this way for years. It is why I picked the Packers over the Cowboys and some of the braniacs here said I was wrong....hmm, guess not.
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Only problem with this is, of course, you are wrong. Bridgewater lost the first game without Brees against the Rams...yes, I know he didn't start. Saints were also fine with Brees and with Teddy. The Panthers have sucked with Cam since last year playing hurt, and into this year. Big difference...Cam has been a net negative to the team since middle of last year. Brees has not. No comparison.
Hoopaloop = Know-nothing troll.
Go Panthers!
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I said Panthers better off without Cam Newton...
The ellipsis mattered then and matters today...which led to the entire ellipsis comment since people apparently didn't know what it meant and instead concentrated on whether it was 3 or 4 dots. LOL. I did the ellipsis on purpose and predictably got the reaction I expected as people lost their minds. Meanwhile, it still holds true. Since last year and into this year, with Cam 0-8 and 13 interceptions. Allen 4-0 and zero interceptions.
Panthers better off without Cam Newton...true then, true today.
Just to be clear.
Do you believe the Panthers are better off without a healthy Cam Newton?
Or do you believe the Panthers are only better off without an injured Cam Newton?
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Hoopaloop = Know-nothing troll.
Go Panthers!
You aren't helping things. I have my opinion, you have yours.
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Just to be clear.
Do you believe the Panthers are better off without a healthy Cam Newton?
Or do you believe the Panthers are only better off without an injured Cam Newton?
I was very clear about this in this thread. Panthers are not better off with an injured Cam playing, in my opinion. He hasn't been healthy in a long time. Seems like others are coming around to the conclusion now, too.
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I was very clear about this in this thread. Panthers are not better off with an injured Cam playing, in my opinion. He hasn't been healthy in a long time. Seems like others are coming around to the conclusion now, too.
Excellent job not answering jesmu's question: "Do you believe the Panthers are better off without a healthy Cam Newton?"
It's also cute how you think you were "first" in believing the obvious. And BTW, folks in Charlotte have been talking for weeks about the team possibly deciding to dump Cam after this season.
You aren't helping things. I have my opinion, you have yours.
Ah. Panthers better without Cam.... followed by several pages of unmitigated BS was helping things. Thanks for the clarification, troll.
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Three weeks ago
Cowboys 3-0
Chiefs 3-0
Rams 3-0
Since then
Combined 1-8 record.
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Cowboys are terrible. Dak isn't exactly playing his way into a big contract.
They are the “Michigan” of the NFL.
Perpetually overrated with a coach that isn’t as great as he thinks he is. At least Michigan doesn’t have to put up with a bumbling owner.
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Excellent job not answering jesmu's question: "Do you believe the Panthers are better off without a healthy Cam Newton?"
It's also cute how you think you were "first" in believing the obvious. And BTW, folks in Charlotte have been talking for weeks about the team possibly deciding to dump Cam after this season.
Ah. Panthers better without Cam.... followed by several pages of unmitigated BS was helping things. Thanks for the clarification, troll.
It seems weird that the coaching staff didn't pick it up if all these trolls did so much earlier. They work with Cam every day, but thought he should play instead of sitting him to get better and heal, and thus give the team a better shot to win. Odd. Something in the water the coaches are drinking? Unable to see what others are seeing?
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They are the “Michigan” of the NFL.
Perpetually overrated with a coach that isn’t as great as he thinks he is. At least Michigan doesn’t have to put up with a bumbling owner.
I don't know if Garrett thinks he is great, he's never proven it anywhere. Harbaugh at least has won some big games at other stops, including taking a team to the Super Bowl. And yes, Jerrah being Jerrah is and has been a huge problem for two decades.
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They are the “Michigan” of the NFL.
Perpetually overrated with a coach that isn’t as great as he thinks he is. At least Michigan doesn’t have to put up with a bumbling owner.
A few days before the Packers game I actually overheard two Cowboys fans chatting. They were talking about how this might be the best Cowboys team ever, and could go undefeated this season.
They looked irritated that I couldn't hold in my laughter.
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A few days before the Packers game I actually overheard two Cowboys fans chatting. They were talking about how this might be the best Cowboys team ever, and could go undefeated this season.
They looked irritated that I couldn't hold in my laughter.
I would have laughed as well. I've been asking for the Clapping Ginger to be fired for years now, and anything to have Jerrah fire the GM...himself. Jerrah wants that fourth Super Bowl before he dies, but until he steps away from the process it is unlikely to happen.
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I don't know if Garrett thinks he is great, he's never proven it anywhere. Harbaugh at least has won some big games at other stops, including taking a team to the Super Bowl. And yes, Jerrah being Jerrah is and has been a huge problem for two decades.
Please do not respond to my posts. I think you are a pathetic little man and my posts are not meant for you.
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Please do not respond to my posts. I think you are a pathetic little man and my posts are not meant for you.
And I am the problem...
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JFC, its not just chicos, you other no talnent assclowns are just as bad.
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Please do not respond to my posts. I think you are a pathetic little man and my posts are not meant for you.
Then why the Eff do you respond to him???
You, 82, Fluffy, etc. need to put him on ignore if he bothers you that much. PLEASE.
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Please do not respond to my posts. I think you are a pathetic little man and my posts are not meant for you.
Seriously? You get wood with responses such as this?
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Then why the Eff do you respond to him???
You, 82, Fluffy, etc. need to put him on ignore if he bothers you that much. PLEASE.
Actually, I haven’t until yesterday when I decided to try one more time. I should have known it would be no different that previous times.
I will not speak to him again and, as I requested, I don’t want him to respond to my posts. None will be meant for him.
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Just put him on ignore.
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Cardinals with as many losses as Rams, Cowboys, Eagles, Chargers through one third of season. All of the then were Super Bowl contenders to start the season. Look out America
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I said Panthers better off without Cam Newton...
The ellipsis mattered then and matters today...which led to the entire ellipsis comment since people apparently didn't know what it meant and instead concentrated on whether it was 3 or 4 dots. LOL. I did the ellipsis on purpose and predictably got the reaction I expected as people lost their minds. Meanwhile, it still holds true. Since last year and into this year, with Cam 0-8 and 13 interceptions. Allen 4-0 and zero interceptions.
Panthers better off without Cam Newton...true then, true today.
An ellipsis doesn't make you infallible. Although you're Cheeks, so you're already infallible.
Seriously. Why are you intentionally making yourself look this stupid?
You went for shock value and made a stupid claim. You got called out for it. You didn't even use an ellipsis correctly, so if you want to play the "you don't understand English" card, well, you didn't use English properly.
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Only problem with this is, of course, you are wrong. Bridgewater lost the first game without Brees against the Rams...yes, I know he didn't start. Saints were also fine with Brees and with Teddy. The Panthers have sucked with Cam since last year playing hurt, and into this year. Big difference...Cam has been a net negative to the team since middle of last year. Brees has not. No comparison.
So...you know you are wrong, but you're going to claim it as a win for you.
LOL!
Oh shoot! There's an ellipsis there! He can't be wrong! So Teddy lost because hey! Ellipsis!
I'm starting to doubt that you AREN'T this dumb. Maybe you really are.
Let me just get this straight. Your claim that you used an ellipsis meant that you knew the Panthers are better with a healthy Cam, no? That's why you used the ellipsis, because you knew you were saying something stupid, but you meant to be saying something not stupid (a physically incapable Cam is worse for the Panthers than his healthy backup). BUT now you're claiming that the Saints are fine with Brees OR with Teddy? So are we saying that the Saints are fine with Brees in there with a cast on his throwing hand or...? (Ellipsis warning!) Or are you freudian slipping that what you really meant when your (incorrectly used) ellipsis saved you! was that you think that the Panthers are better with Cam's backup than they are with Cam Newton under center (no ellipsis necessary)? Because that's what you're saying, given the lack of an ellipsis around your claim about the Saints situation.
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I was very clear about this in this thread. Panthers are not better off with an injured Cam playing, in my opinion. He hasn't been healthy in a long time. Seems like others are coming around to the conclusion now, too.
In typical Cheeks fashion, a nice dodging of a simple question!
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An ellipsis doesn't make you infallible. Although you're Cheeks, so you're already infallible.
Seriously. Why are you intentionally making yourself look this stupid?
You went for shock value and made a stupid claim. You got called out for it. You didn't even use an ellipsis correctly, so if you want to play the "you don't understand English" card, well, you didn't use English properly.
The English was used properly, already provided link to that proving it out. I am not infallible. I make plenty of mistakes and will admit them when I do.
My opinion shared by some on NFL Network and ESPN now. Don’t think it was a bad take, but we all have our opinions. Thanks.
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Cardinals with as many losses as Rams, Cowboys, Eagles, Chargers through one third of season. All of the then were Super Bowl contenders to start the season. Look out America
Nobody's worried about the Cardinals.
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In typical Cheeks fashion, a nice dodging of a simple question!
What simple question did I dodge?
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The English was used properly, already provided link to that proving it out. I am not infallible. I make plenty of mistakes and will admit them when I do.
My opinion shared by some on NFL Network and ESPN now. Don’t think it was a bad take, but we all have our opinions. Thanks.
The next time will be the first. Your opinion here is dumb and has been since you first stated it.
No ellipsis is necessary. I don't need to claim there's more to it than what I wrote. I'm not afraid of coming out and saying what I mean because what I'm saying might turn out to be wrong. Fortunately for me I'm capable of admitting when I had a wrong take and would rather admit it was wrong than come off as clueless as you do.
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What simple question did I dodge?
Read the post.
Now I'm starting to see that not only math is hard, but so is a 4th grade reading level.
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So...you know you are wrong, but you're going to claim it as a win for you.
LOL!
Oh shoot! There's an ellipsis there! He can't be wrong! So Teddy lost because hey! Ellipsis!
I'm starting to doubt that you AREN'T this dumb. Maybe you really are.
Let me just get this straight. Your claim that you used an ellipsis meant that you knew the Panthers are better with a healthy Cam, no? That's why you used the ellipsis, because you knew you were saying something stupid, but you meant to be saying something not stupid (a physically incapable Cam is worse for the Panthers than his healthy backup). BUT now you're claiming that the Saints are fine with Brees OR with Teddy? So are we saying that the Saints are fine with Brees in there with a cast on his throwing hand or...? (Ellipsis warning!) Or are you freudian slipping that what you really meant when your (incorrectly used) ellipsis saved you! was that you think that the Panthers are better with Cam's backup than they are with Cam Newton under center (no ellipsis necessary)? Because that's what you're saying, given the lack of an ellipsis around your claim about the Saints situation.
The Saints went to the NFC title game last year and got robbed at a chance at the Super Bowl, all with Brees at QB.
This year they won their first game and he got hurt in the second game trailing 3-0 against the Rams. They proceeded to lose 27-9 with Bridgewater.
So the last 8 ballgame last year and this year that Brees was involved in, they have done very well.
Panthers, Cam is 0-8, lots of interceptions. He was playing hurt. I don’t see the comparison at all. The two teams are not comparable, nor are the two qb’s based on the last half season of games. Newton playing injured, bad wing, bad wheels and not getting it done...hurting his team more than helping it with a ton of interceptions. Brees was getting it done, Teddy after Rams debacle is as well, so is Kyle Allen.
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The Saints went to the NFC title game last year and got robbed at a chance at the Super Bowl, all with Brees at QB.
This year they won their first game and he got hurt in the second game trailing 3-0 against the Rams. They proceeded to lose 27-9 with Bridgewater.
So the last 8 ballgame last year and this year that Brees was involved in, they have done very well.
Panthers, Cam is 0-8, lots of interceptions. He was playing hurt. I don’t see the comparison at all. The two teams are not comparable, nor are the two qb’s based on the last half season of games. Newton playing injured, bad wing, bad wheels and not getting it done...hurting his team more than helping it with a ton of interceptions. Brees was getting it done, Teddy after Rams debacle is as well, so is Kyle Allen.
So healthy Brees vs. hurt Cam. Because, you know, ellipsis. That’s why you used it. Duh. Because your take isn’t healthy Cam is makes the Panthers worse it was injured Cam. Ellipsis! People lost their mind because of the ellipsis!
Apples to Broccoli.
Dumb comparison.
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Read the post.
Now I'm starting to see that not only math is hard, but so is a 4th grade reading level.
I answered the question. The Panthers are not better off with an injured Cam Newton playing. I would assume you and others to understand that means with a healthy Cam Newton, they are better off...4th grade stuff.
In fact, I went on about how much I think Cam Newton is a great QB. I also said, explicitly, “As long as Cam plays injured like he did last year and this year, they are better off with him not playing...unless healthy, he hurts his team out there. He is a great player when healthy, but he isn’t right now and hasn’t been for quite some time”
I said that in this thread. You responded to it, so I am not sure how you now don’t know my take. Sept 30th, reply 401 was my statement.
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I answered the question. The Panthers are not better off with an injured Cam Newton playing. I would assume you and others to understand that means with a healthy Cam Newton, they are better off...4th grade stuff.
In fact, I went on about how much I think Cam Newton is a great QB. I also said, explicitly, “As long as Cam plays injured like he did last year and this year, they are better off with him not playing...unless healthy, he hurts his team out there. He is a great player when healthy, but he isn’t right now and hasn’t been for quite some time”
I said that in this thread. You responded to it, so I am not sure how you now don’t know my take. Sept 30th, reply 401 was my statement.
Impossible to know what you’re saying unless you spell it out. The goalposts are constantly, constantly shifting. So yes, should be fourth grade stuff yet you make more pretzels than Auntie Ann’s on a Tuesday lunch break so nobody ever knows if you’re using an ellipsis or what. Because when you’re wrong the goalposts will just shift and hey, don’t read what I said literally, read my mind!
Anyways, now that we know your stance, incredibly impressive analysis. I don’t know how you aren’t running an NFL team. I can see how ESPN and NFL Network are picking up on this after you.
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So healthy Brees vs. hurt Cam. Because, you know, ellipsis. That’s why you used it. Duh. Because your take isn’t healthy Cam is makes the Panthers worse it was injured Cam. Ellipsis! People lost their mind because of the ellipsis!
Apples to Broccoli.
Dumb comparison.
I would expect the Saints to bench hurt Brees. I don’t understand why the Panthers didn’t with Newton, which is why the comparison has been made...because the Panthers kept throwing him out there to play saying he was ready to go and they made the decision that an unhealthy Newton was better than a healthy backup. We will never know if 2018 would have been different, but at least in 2019 it appears thus far “ the Panthers better off without Cam Newton....”
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Impossible to know what you’re saying unless you spell it out. The goalposts are constantly, constantly shifting. So yes, should be fourth grade stuff yet you make more pretzels than Auntie Ann’s on a Tuesday lunch break so nobody ever knows if you’re using an ellipsis or what. Because when you’re wrong the goalposts will just shift and hey, don’t read what I said literally, read my mind!
Anyways, now that we know your stance, incredibly impressive analysis. I don’t know how you aren’t running an NFL team. I can see how ESPN and NFL Network are picking up on this after you.
The goalposts aren’t moving, you responded to my take and then later act as if the take changed. It didn’t...the take is still identical. What goalposts were moved, let alone constantly?
Appreciate the sarcasm, I’m just glad others are publicly saying it. Question for you and Mike, why do you think the Panthers continued to play a hurt Cam Newton rather than sit him? At what point do they say this isn’t working? He isn’t right? 3 losses, 5 losses, 7 losses?
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The goalposts aren’t moving, you responded to my take and then later act as if the take changed. It didn’t...the take is still identical. What goalposts were moved, let alone constantly?
Appreciate the sarcasm, I’m just glad others are publicly saying it. Question for you and Mike, why do you think the Panthers continued to play a hurt Cam Newton rather than sit him? At what point do they say this isn’t working? He isn’t right? 3 losses, 5 losses, 7 losses?
Apparently the answer was 2 losses. Not hard to figure out given that he played in 2 games.
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Scoop histrionics aside, the Panthers are facing an interesting, potentially fireworks-causing situation.
About three weeks ago in Charlotte, discussions were beginning about the QB position. What if Kyle Allen, an undrafted kid who barely played college football, beats the odds and actually does well as Cam Newton's replacement? What if he's the next Tom Brady, or at least the next Jake Delhomme? Those discussions and debates have picked up steam in the ensuing weeks, and now questions are being asked of Ron Rivera in press conferences.
Well, Allen has done fine. He has a strong arm, he can make all the throws, and, supported by the best RB in the league and an above-average receiving corps, he has made some big plays these last 4 weeks, all wins. It has helped tremendously that the Panthers' defense has been quite good.
He also has made plenty of mistakes, the biggest being that he doesn't have very good "pocket awareness." He doesn't sense defenders around him, doesn't know when to step up in the pocket, or shuffle a little to the right to avoid the rush, doesn't secure the football when he's about to be hit, etc. As a result, although he hasn't thrown any interceptions, he has fumbled 6 times, losing 5. Against Houston, he was hit 3 times and fumbled each time in a game the Panthers won despite him. I'm hoping that pocket awareness develops as he gains experience, as he seems like a fairly quick study.
He obviously hasn't been as dynamic as a healthy Newton was, but Cam has taken a ton of pounding over the years and who knows if he'll ever be what he was. Adding to the situation is that Newton's contract ends next year; the team could cut him after this season, save something like $20 million under the salary cap, and owe him only $2 million or so. If Allen keeps playing well and winning, cutting Cam would seem a no-brainer.
As for this season ... after several years as a guy who tended to brood and be all about himself, Newton has matured into a popular team leader. But Allen also has earned his teammates' respect for obvious reasons.
I don't envy Rivera for the decision he eventually will have to make because it can't help but divide the locker room some. He and Newton arrived in Charlotte at the same time, and they have been joined at the hip ever since, winning division titles, going to a Super Bowl, etc. As for now, Rivera is saying all the right things:
“I’m not going to worry, speculate on anything until I have to address that. Until then, we’re going to stay in the now, focus on what we’re doing right now. As far as I’m concerned, we’re just not going to deal with the question until it’s time.”
If Allen really is the best choice, will Rivera have the guts to do what Belichick did in 2001 after Bledsoe got hurt? If so, will Newton be gracious, as Bledsoe was and as Eli Manning is now?
This will be one of the big things everybody in Charlotte talks about from now until the season ends, and then some.
(I am looking forward to any conversation this interesting situation leads to, but I will not answer anything posted by one Scooper in particular.)
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Kyle Allen trivia: His dad Mike is a Wisconsin native who was involved in the "Fiesta Bowl Scandal" about ten years ago.
https://www.si.com/college-football/2011/03/30/fiesta-bowl-junker-bcs
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Scoop histrionics aside, the Panthers are facing an interesting, potentially fireworks-causing situation.
About three weeks ago in Charlotte, discussions were beginning about the QB position. What if Kyle Allen, an undrafted kid who barely played college football, beats the odds and actually does well as Cam Newton's replacement? What if he's the next Tom Brady, or at least the next Jake Delhomme? Those discussions and debates have picked up steam in the ensuing weeks, and now questions are being asked of Ron Rivera in press conferences.
Well, Allen has done fine. He has a strong arm, he can make all the throws, and, supported by the best RB in the league and an above-average receiving corps, he has made some big plays these last 4 weeks, all wins. It has helped tremendously that the Panthers' defense has been quite good.
He also has made plenty of mistakes, the biggest being that he doesn't have very good "pocket awareness." He doesn't sense defenders around him, doesn't know when to step up in the pocket, or shuffle a little to the right to avoid the rush, doesn't secure the football when he's about to be hit, etc. As a result, although he hasn't thrown any interceptions, he has fumbled 6 times, losing 5. Against Houston, he was hit 3 times and fumbled each time in a game the Panthers won despite him. I'm hoping that pocket awareness develops as he gains experience, as he seems like a fairly quick study.
He obviously hasn't been as dynamic as a healthy Newton was, but Cam has taken a ton of pounding over the years and who knows if he'll ever be what he was. Adding to the situation is that Newton's contract ends next year; the team could cut him after this season, save something like $20 million under the salary cap, and owe him only $2 million or so. If Allen keeps playing well and winning, cutting Cam would seem a no-brainer.
.....
I think that by the time Cam is fully healthy, it will be a no-brainer. The league is gathering tape on Allen and they will catch up to him. Once he puts out a couple of clunkers, it will be an easy decision.
I have never been a Cam fan, but if you look at games he played when he was healthy, it’s absolutely clear who the better QB is - and it’s not even remotely close.
By the time Cam is healthy, Panther fans will be clamoring to have him back in the lineup.
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Duck Hodges or Ben Roethlisberger?
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Duck Hodges or Ben Roethlisberger?
I know that is a “teal” comment-but people love backup QBs.
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Duck Hodges or Ben Roethlisberger....
FIFY....
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I think that by the time Cam is fully healthy, it will be a no-brainer. The league is gathering tape on Allen and they will catch up to him. Once he puts out a couple of clunkers, it will be an easy decision.
I have never been a Cam fan, but if you look at games he played when he was healthy, it’s absolutely clear who the better QB is - and it’s not even remotely close.
By the time Cam is healthy, Panther fans will be clamoring to have him back in the lineup.
Just to be clear, we are talking about Cam Marotta right? Also, didn't realize he was injured, but pretty sure the Panthers would be better with the backup instead of Marotta. I mean, I didn't even know he was in the NFL.
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Just to be clear, we are talking about Cam Marotta right? Also, didn't realize he was injured, but pretty sure the Panthers would be better with the backup instead of Marotta. I mean, I didn't even know he was in the NFL.
No, Marcus Mariota.
Are the Titans better off without Mariota....?
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Speaking of bad quarterback play, is Baker Mayfield actually bad? Because he looks bad. Even when adjusted for the poor play of his o-line and drops, he's been very bad.
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Just to be clear, we are talking about Cam Marotta right? Also, didn't realize he was injured, but pretty sure the Panthers would be better with the backup instead of Marotta. I mean, I didn't even know he was in the NFL.
Huh ....?
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Speaking of bad quarterback play, is Baker Mayfield actually bad? Because he looks bad. Even when adjusted for the poor play of his o-line and drops, he's been very bad.
No he's not bad. Team watched his tape and figured him out. It happens to every quarterback. He has to take that next step, and I really think they hired the wrong guy in Kitchens to get him there.
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I know that is a “teal” comment-but people love backup QBs.
Truth. With very few exceptions (such as New England), the backup QB is always a fan favorite. During Cam's MVP/Super Bowl season, there actually were Panthers fans who still thought Derek Anderson should be the QB.
The problem comes when that backup QB has to, you know, play in a game.
I still remember when Jonathan Quinn finally had to play for the Bears. Ugh.
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No he's not bad. Team watched his tape and figured him out. It happens to every quarterback. He has to take that next step, and I really think they hired the wrong guy in Kitchens to get him there.
This may very well be a temporary regression, but I think it's more than teams adjusting to him. He's just not throwing the ball well, and that has nothing to do with the other team or Kitchens (who, I agree, has been awful).
His adjusted completion percentage - which eliminates drops, throws when he's being hit, throwaways, etc. - is 26th among 27 qualified QBs. His passer rating under pressure is 24.1. Next worse in the NFL is 48.1. I think those are numbers that fall directly on him.
Anyhow, obviously way too soon to say he's a bad quarterback, but he's trending the wrong way.
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This may very well be a temporary regression, but I think it's more than teams adjusting to him. He's just not throwing the ball well, and that has nothing to do with the other team or Kitchens (who, I agree, has been awful).
His adjusted completion percentage - which eliminates drops, throws when he's being hit, throwaways, etc. - is 26th among 27 qualified QBs. His passer rating under pressure is 24.1. Next worse in the NFL is 48.1. I think those are numbers that fall directly on him.
Anyhow, obviously way too soon to say he's a bad quarterback, but he's trending the wrong way.
I agree, which is why I never bought into the off-season hype.
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I agree, which is why I never bought into the off-season hype.
Just keep giving the ball to Chubby so I can keep my Fantasy Football team rolling.
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For those more knowledgable than me...
What are the impressions on Cardinals/Kingsbury's offense succeeding in the NFL? And on Kyler as an NFL-caliber QB?
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I thought going into the year that the NFC overall was solid (outside of Washington, the Jets/Fins/Bengals are all AFC teams). I thought Arizona might have been a train wreck, they're not.
Conference is really interesting about a third of the way through. I'm going to break this up by confidence level.
-Teams I trust (Green Bay/New Orleans/Seattle)
-2018 Bears team (San Francisco)
-Frisky teams (Carolina/Detroit)
-Teams I just do not trust (Chicago/Minny/Dallas/Philly)
-Regression team that stood way out (Rams...I'm fine if you'd rather put the Bears here)
-Bad teams that I'd still have no full faith in guaranteeing as a W (Bucs/Cards/Giants)
-See ya in 2020 (Washington/Atlanta)
Philly is a total WTF to me. They lose at Atlanta, and win at Green Bay. Their (replacement) corners got torched by Cousins. They have a gigantic game at Dallas this Sunday, then they go to Buffalo, and then host Bears/Pats/Seahawks all in consecutive weeks. That's a massive 5 game stretch.
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This may very well be a temporary regression, but I think it's more than teams adjusting to him. He's just not throwing the ball well, and that has nothing to do with the other team or Kitchens (who, I agree, has been awful).
His adjusted completion percentage - which eliminates drops, throws when he's being hit, throwaways, etc. - is 26th among 27 qualified QBs. His passer rating under pressure is 24.1. Next worse in the NFL is 48.1. I think those are numbers that fall directly on him.
Anyhow, obviously way too soon to say he's a bad quarterback, but he's trending the wrong way.
One of my best friends is a diehard Browns fan, and we've talked at length about it. I think its a combination of things. I think its a combo platter of expectations, sophomore slump, and god awful coaching/development. He came in last year fighting for a starting job, minimal expectations, a bit of an unknown quantity at the NFL level, and he just had to go out there and play. Fast forward to this year, he was the runner up for ROY, Browns add a top 3 WR, and they have a standout young RB. People expect the world. He'd have a ton of pressure to be good just based off of a great rookie campaign, but now its ratcheted up to "be dominant offensively". That bleeds into your play, especially when the team is struggling.
I get his pure numbers and performance have been crap, but I think the abysmal coaching is two fold. First, his QB coach last year was Ken Zampese. He was a crap OC at the end of his time in Cincy, but he's a fantastic QB guru. Cut his teeth with the greatest show on turf, then groomed QBs extremely well for Marvin Lewis. Hell, Jon Kitna was just a guy most of his career until he set records under Zampese. Then he was instrumental in molding Carson Palmer and did great with Andy Dalton. So he was a great mentor for Baker. He gets tossed out with a good chunk of the staff after last season. His replacement? Ryan Lindley, who is basically 5 years old than Baker, in his second season as a coach, and his previous experience was coaching RBs. Thats a massive change and poorly timed as teams had an entire offseason to study your film and adjust.
Kitchens himself has done him no favors. The games Ive watched, the offense has little rhythm, there is terrible balance, and Baker doesn't get put in a position to succeed. You'll have Chubb working well and then they will abandon the run for entire drives. Or do nothing to get completions stacking up to get a flow going. Even Aaron Rodgers struggled at times last year when McCarthey didn't call plays to get him in a rhythm and comfortable, much less a young QB. Baker needs to be a lot better and I'm sure nobody knows that more than him, but he's been put in probably the worst position to succeed he could have been in given the end of last year.
[/quote]For those more knowledgable than me...
What are the impressions on Cardinals/Kingsbury's offense succeeding in the NFL? And on Kyler as an NFL-caliber QB?
Too early to tell IMO. I have been impressed in some ways with the offense. There are plenty of tricks and wrinkles. Murray has been pretty good, but he has a great RB, an incredible safety blanket WR, and an offense people need to figure out. He seems to do a lot of throw and pray at times. Ive yet to watch him and be like "this is a star in the making". I was more impressed with early Mahomes and Watson play, than Murray, for comparison. Doesn't mean he wont be a good starter though.
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Too early to tell IMO. I have been impressed in some ways with the offense. There are plenty of tricks and wrinkles. Murray has been pretty good, but he has a great RB, an incredible safety blanket WR, and an offense people need to figure out. He seems to do a lot of throw and pray at times. Ive yet to watch him and be like "this is a star in the making". I was more impressed with early Mahomes and Watson play, than Murray, for comparison. Doesn't mean he wont be a good starter though.
Great post. You covered it pretty well. The thing that concerns me most, though, is his size. Breees and Wilson are sub- six foot QBs, but Murray looks way smaller than either.
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And I am the problem...
Yes
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Great post. You covered it pretty well. The thing that concerns me most, though, is his size. Breees and Wilson are sub- six foot QBs, but Murray looks way smaller than either.
Cardinals have been blessed with a fairly easy schedule so far when it comes to opponents' defense, also.
So far, their opponents' defensive ranks are 11th, 13th, 20th, 26th, 27th and 31st.
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I agree, which is why I never bought into the off-season hype.
As a recovering Packers fan, I decided to adopt the Browns a few years back so I’ve watched them quite a bit. The head coach is in over his head and the front office did a lot of good things this off-season but neglecting the o-line will haunt them all year.
Mayfield is uber-confident and talented but really came into his own under Lincoln Riley and he could use a guy like that. Kitchens simply isn’t that or at least has not shown it yet. The Browns would be wise to make sure his development isn’t stunted from bad coaching. Play-calling in the red zone is shaky at best.
As far as the o-line is concerned, QBs can be shell shocked for their career behind poor lines or at least that’s my opinion. I look back at David Carr with Houston as an example. In today’s NFL, the rules are such that a defense has to be able to pressure a QB on a regular basis or they’ll get picked apart. The Browns line simply isn’t good enough to provide adequate time on a regular basis and it’s the one thing that stunts a QB and offenses
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Huh ....?
Was trying to be funny, in that to me, it would be more reasonable to discuss whether the Panthers would be better with or without Cam Marotta, then it is to discuss them with Cam Newton.
My humor failed. I apologize to the board, Cam Marotta, and the world.
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It was nice of the Lions to let The Corpse of Jimmy Graham off the hook.
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Refs imposing their will in the 2nd half.
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Man, Trey Flowers got jobbed hard tonight. Twice.
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Refs imposing their will in the 2nd half.
Holy home cooking.
Three terrible calls.
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Lions was robbed. Hands to the face on 3rd down sack, would have resulted in punt and instead a TD for Green Bay.
That was bad.
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Ah well.
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That’s absolutely brutal. To call the same foul, same guy, twice, neither a real penalty, one at just a crucial moment...absolutely brutal.
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On the second one, if you watch the replay right from the beginning, the Packers' OT has his hands up in Flowers' face/neck area.
It sucks, but Lions did have chances to win that game.
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Looked like the right calls to me! 8-)
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I thought Detroit was the better team out there tonight. They made the mistake of getting field goals instead of TD’s.
That Umpire should be suspended, or at least barred from the postseason. Watching these replays, it’s unfathomable to me someone can make the exact same call, within 9 minutes of game play, with a player like Flowers who has never committed that penalty. How the ref, staring at same players on both replays, didn’t overrule is absurd.
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That’s absolutely brutal. To call the same foul, same guy, twice, neither a real penalty, one at just a crucial moment...absolutely brutal.
The first was actually a penalty. The first replay they played, showed his hand slip off his shoulder pads and get under his facemask. That is what drew the flag. On later replays they cut it off before it happened.
The second one was not hands to the face, and they missed a hands to the face on Baktiari.
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The first was actually a penalty. The first replay they played, showed his hand slip off his shoulder pads and get under his facemask. That is what drew the flag. On later replays they cut it off before it happened.
The second one was not hands to the face, and they missed a hands to the face on Baktiari.
I beg to differ.
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The first was actually a penalty. The first replay they played, showed his hand slip off his shoulder pads and get under his facemask. That is what drew the flag. On later replays they cut it off before it happened.
The second one was not hands to the face, and they missed a hands to the face on Baktiari.
Both calls were wrong.
As was the missed pass interference.
As was the missed 13 men on the field call earlier in the game.
The only reason not to investigate whether there were some Tim Donaghy-like shenanigans here is that no one would believe NFL officials are competent enough to pull that off.
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Both calls were wrong.
As was the missed pass interference.
As was the missed 13 men on the field call earlier in the game.
The only reason not to investigate whether there were some Tim Donaghy-like shenanigans here is that no one would believe NFL officials are competent enough to pull that off.
I was watching on mute - what was the missed too many men on the field penalty?
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I thought Detroit was the better team out there tonight. They made the mistake of getting field goals instead of TD’s.
That Umpire should be suspended, or at least barred from the postseason. Watching these replays, it’s unfathomable to me someone can make the exact same call, within 9 minutes of game play, with a player like Flowers who has never committed that penalty. How the ref, staring at same players on both replays, didn’t overrule is absurd.
Didn’t feel like the Lions were the better team to me. Part of football is scoring touchdowns, especially when you have a short field all night.
The Lions had 299 total yards. They had a 70 yard play on their first possession and a 58 yard play on their second possession. Other than those two chunk plays they did absolutely nothing offensively. They did take advantage of the Packers inexperienced backup WRs giving the ball up twice and turned it into some good field position.
Packers had 150 total yards more, 120 more rushing yards, 22 first downs to the Lions 13, and won the time of possession battle. Only phase of the game the Lions won was the turnover battle.
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I was watching on mute - what was the missed too many men on the field penalty?
Packers D had 13 men on the field for a play in the 2nd quarter. No penalty.
http://pic.twitter.com/nq4dHP73DT
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I beg to differ.
If you watch the first play, way way late (most replays cut out way before it), his hand slips up under the facemask. It was only evident in one of the replays all game (and none afterwards), and even in that one it was only in the last 0.5 seconds of the replay. Just played it twice more. Definitely comes free at the end (before the flag came out). Kind of punches him up in the right side of the facemask/ear hole.
Obviously can't prove it. Also can't prove if that is what the official saw, or if he threw the flag before that.
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Packers D had 13 men on the field for a play in the 2nd quarter. No penalty.
http://pic.twitter.com/nq4dHP73DT
You got fake newsed. Unless GB came out of the timeout with 13 men, and kept 13 men on the field after a Detroit false start. Or maybe they had 11, false start Detroit, and slipped 2 guys onto the field.
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You got fake newsed. Unless GB came out of the timeout with 13 men, and kept 13 men on the field after a Detroit false start. Or maybe they had 11, false start Detroit, and slipped 2 guys onto the field.
When the defense has more than 11 men in formation before the snap, it's a dead ball foul and should have been flagged before the false start.
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If you watch the first play, way way late (most replays cut out way before it), his hand slips up under the facemask. It was only evident in one of the replays all game (and none afterwards), and even in that one it was only in the last 0.5 seconds of the replay. Just played it twice more. Definitely comes free at the end (before the flag came out). Kind of punches him up in the right side of the facemask/ear hole.
Obviously can't prove it. Also can't prove if that is what the official saw, or if he threw the flag before that.
I just watched it in real time on my DVR again on the first penalty. It’s an egregious call by the umpire. He has all shoulder pad and then hair. Worst of all, the umpire throws the flag after the play is over and the play is 4 feet from the umpire. That is no way hands to the face.
If that play happened on its own, it happens, but same official 9 minutes later with same call on same player is garbage. Detroit still needs to score TDs. The officiating fiascos have to stop.
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Both calls were wrong.
As was the missed pass interference.
As was the missed 13 men on the field call earlier in the game.
The only reason not to investigate whether there were some Tim Donaghy-like shenanigans here is that no one would believe NFL officials are competent enough to pull that off.
You know there were a lot more missed calls than that right? Three of the top of my head. Phantom hold on a 10-yard run by Jones. Missed hold/pass interference when Graham going to end zone. Missed pass interference when a Detroit linebacker shoved Jones to the ground when the ball was in the air.
Could have called unnecessary roughness on the Green Bay corner for a forearm shiver to the Detroit WR, way late, after a key 3rd down stop.
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Didn’t feel like the Lions were the better team to me. Part of football is scoring touchdowns, especially when you have a short field all night.
The Lions had 299 total yards. They had a 70 yard play on their first possession and a 58 yard play on their second possession. Other than those two chunk plays they did absolutely nothing offensively. They did take advantage of the Packers inexperienced backup WRs giving the ball up twice and turned it into some good field position.
Packers had 150 total yards more, 120 more rushing yards, 22 first downs to the Lions 13, and won the time of possession battle. Only phase of the game the Lions won was the turnover battle.
Yeah, no doubt the Packers benefited from some home cooking, but try as they might (two dropped TDs, two fumbles, and a pop-up interception at the 2 yard line) to hand it to the Lions, Detroit just refused to win the game.
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You know there were a lot more missed calls than that right? Three of the top of my head. Phantom hold on a 10-yard run by Jones. Missed hold/pass interference when Graham going to end zone. Missed pass interference when a Detroit linebacker shoved Jones to the ground when the ball was in the air.
Could have called unnecessary roughness on the Green Bay corner for a forearm shiver to the Detroit WR, way late, after a key 3rd down stop.
So, first the bad calls weren't really bad calls, and now the bad calls are NBD because there may have been other bad calls.
It's OK to admit your team was the beneficiary of terrible officiating. There won't be an asterisk in the standings tomorrow.
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Was trying to be funny, in that to me, it would be more reasonable to discuss whether the Panthers would be better with or without Cam Marotta, then it is to discuss them with Cam Newton.
My humor failed. I apologize to the board, Cam Marotta, and the world.
I knew you were trying to be funny, but I misread your post as Marriotts I star Adrian of Marietta.
So I can be flogged by the board as well.
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I just watched it in real time on my DVR again on the first penalty. It’s an egregious call by the umpire. He has all shoulder pad and then hair. Worst of all, the umpire throws the flag after the play is over and the play is 4 feet from the umpire. That is no way hands to the face.
If that play happened on its own, it happens, but same official 9 minutes later with same call on same player is garbage. Detroit still needs to score TDs. The officiating fiascos have to stop.
For the first one, what I'm referring to you can see in the clip below at ~55 seconds. At the end, he lets go of the shoulder pad and drives his hand into the neck/head area. Not major, but technically can be called hands to the face. Not a good call, but I'll give the official a pass.
The other one, remains a bad call.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0dfl7GtlWn8
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It feels like one of those commercials....."If you're a Lions fan, you expect to get jobbed on calls. It's what you do."
But... score some touchdowns and it doesn't matter.
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I thought there were a number of horrible calls and 'over officiating' has become a serious problem in the NFL. The Packers did themselves no favors by turning the ball over constantly and it wasn't until ARodg went to the coaching staff insisting they put Lazard in the game that it finally started to click. That said, you don't win football games by kicking 5 field goals.
The Lions played better last night. They are most certainly NOT the better team. Good teams win on off nights. Just like the Packers did.
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I’ll admit those were bad calls but remember seeing what forgetful is referring to in order to make that one a little understandable. After the roughing the passer calls against Matthews last year, I’m definitely not apologizing for the Packers being on the beneficial side though.
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For the first one, what I'm referring to you can see in the clip below at ~55 seconds. At the end, he lets go of the shoulder pad and drives his hand into the neck/head area. Not major, but technically can be called hands to the face. Not a good call, but I'll give the official a pass.
The other one, remains a bad call.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0dfl7GtlWn8
LOL, no. That's not a penalty in the least.
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Nope. Hands to the chest.
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https://twitter.com/BarrySanders/status/1183946514311385088
Bad bad bad calls. Barry Sanders not happy
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Hands to the face clearly.....except wrong team called.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EG47UbyWwAE3ZKh.jpg)
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I thought there were a number of horrible calls and 'over officiating' has become a serious problem in the NFL. The Packers did themselves no favors by turning the ball over constantly and it wasn't until ARodg went to the coaching staff insisting they put Lazard in the game that it finally started to click. That said, you don't win football games by kicking 5 field goals.
The Lions played better last night. They are most certainly NOT the better team. Good teams win on off nights. Just like the Packers did.
This is the right take. The Packers had several opportunities to dominate down the stretch if not for their own miscues. They did not deserve to win in light of them. But now you'll should never have Packers fans complain about the Fail Mary ever again.
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I'm just happy that if there is a referee conspiracy, my team gets to benefit from it.
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You'll forgive me if I'm totally unsympathetic to all this ref-based hand ringing.....officials have cost my teams plenty, it's kind of nice to be on the beneficial side of incompetent officiating.
Side note, while I think officiating in football is generally terrible I also think much like baseball it's just impossible given all the slow motion, AR, etc that we see on our TVs that the officials are trying to call in real time with athletes moving faster than ever. We can't expect officials to get everything right that is Zapreder filmed on twitter.
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Agree there were some bad calls against both teams. The second hands to face call was especially brutal but everyone seems to be assuming Lions would have gone down to kick the winning FG had it not been called.
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You'll forgive me if I'm totally unsympathetic to all this ref-based hand ringing.....officials have cost my teams plenty, it's kind of nice to be on the beneficial side of incompetent officiating.
Side note, while I think officiating in football is generally terrible I also think much like baseball it's just impossible given all the slow motion, AR, etc that we see on our TVs that the officials are trying to call in real time with athletes moving faster than ever. We can't expect officials to get everything right that is Zapreder filmed on twitter.
It does amaze me that the NFL has not implemented some technology that would remove variables. The goal line touchdown (that from every angle did not appear to be) should not be left up to two spotters trying to find the ball amidst 22 large men. The only variables that should exist in that situation are not 'did the ball cross the plane', but 'was the ball still under control' or 'was the player down'
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Forget the officials. My takeaway was that Booger sucks. First time I'd watched much MNF this season. You don't have to fill every silence. I liked him last year as a 3rd guy. Does he always talk this much as the #2?
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It does amaze me that the NFL has not implemented some technology that would remove variables. The goal line touchdown (that from every angle did not appear to be) should not be left up to two spotters trying to find the ball amidst 22 large men. The only variables that should exist in that situation are not 'did the ball cross the plane', but 'was the ball still under control' or 'was the player down'
And that's a call they usually get right.
I have been saying this for years, but there are simply too many rule and rule interpretations. They have made it more complex when some simplification is needed. Flag fests at the end of games are terrible to watch.
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I'd love to see the NFL implement an RFID technology for the boundary calls like ball out of bounds and the ball crossing the goal line. You could put RFID(or similar technology) in the skin of the ball as well as the cleats. It could also lead to very neat graphics, etc. Won't solve all problems but would certainly reduce a noticeable group of them.
Before you tell it won't work, they use a very similar technology for America's Cup racing to determine if a boat crossed an imaginary line....if they can do it there it can be relatively easily done in the NFL.
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Forget the officials. My takeaway was that Booger sucks. First time I'd watched much MNF this season. You don't have to fill every silence. I liked him last year as a 3rd guy. Does he always talk this much as the #2?
Yeah this was the first MNF game I've watched this season with the sound on and I couldn't take it. I thought my wife's eyes were going to roll out of her head a couple of times when he started jabbering again.
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And that's a call they usually get right.
I have been saying this for years, but there are simply too many rule and rule interpretations. They have made it more complex when some simplification is needed. Flag fests at the end of games are terrible to watch.
Yes. The goal of this technology (or any type of automation in my opinion), is to reduce error and remove variables. Every time the NFL has changed rules, they've been reactive and ended up introduced variables and making it MORE complicated. The Dez Catch? A crappy outcome, but let's not introduce a bunch of subjective factors. The LAR-NO PI fiasco? Terrible - but they couldn't have predicted that PI is generally a nuanced penalty and rarely as egregious as the one they missed?
The worst of these, IMO, is this idea that they let the play go so they can trigger review. But the burden to overturn is high. The Lions got fleeced this way against the Chiefs.
The NFL has a lot of officiating problems, but core among these is their rules are reactive to specific instances rather than theoretical. Not a good process.
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I'd love to see the NFL implement an RFID technology for the boundary calls like ball out of bounds and the ball crossing the goal line. You could put RFID(or similar technology) in the skin of the ball as well as the cleats. It could also lead to very neat graphics, etc. Won't solve all problems but would certainly reduce a noticeable group of them.
Before you tell it won't work, they use a very similar technology for America's Cup racing to determine if a boat crossed an imaginary line....if they can do it there it can be relatively easily done in the NFL.
I always find it funny that a first down is dependent on a ref pinpointing where the guy was down and then walking a straight line to where the ref places the ball down.
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I always find it funny that a first down is dependent on a ref pinpointing where the guy was down and then walking a straight line to where the ref places the ball down.
Absolutely, one could argue that these micro errors collectively cost teams far more than other subjective calls do.
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You don't have to fill every silence.
This. I turned the sound way, way down.
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This. I turned the sound way, way down.
He was terrible.
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The announcers were atrocious.
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Both calls were wrong.
As was the missed pass interference.
As was the missed 13 men on the field call earlier in the game.
The only reason not to investigate whether there were some Tim Donaghy-like shenanigans here is that no one would believe NFL officials are competent enough to pull that off.
Why didn't Detroit through a challenge flag instead of running another play after the missed PI call?
I also thought the Lions TD was ruled a TD prematurely but hey, we can replay it now.
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My biggest beef with last night is umpire Jeff Rice can not make that call twice within 9 minutes of each other, and be wrong both times. That's not an overly interpretive call, it's fairly black/white when it comes to other penalties like PI or Roughing. The play is right in front of him, he's literally the closest official to the play, he didn't have to exert himself at all physically to be in a position to make those calls, and he was not overruled either time.
Both the Packers and Lions certainly have infamous instances of getting jobbed by officials (Megatron catch, Fail Mary in Seattle). NFL ignores technology improvements as has been mentioned here, it's frustrating as a football fan to watch that unfold like that last night, in what otherwise was a good divisional game.
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Why didn't Detroit through a challenge flag instead of running another play after the missed PI call?
Because they simply aren't overturning calls on the field and coaches want to protect their ability to challenge and time-outs. I have seen more blatant non-calls challenged, and they aren't being given. Frankly, official review of PI has been the disaster that many predicted it would be.
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The rule states "It is a foul if an offensive blocker: Thrusts his hands forward above the frame of an opponent to contact him on the head, neck, or face."
IMO, he clearly has his hands on the neck here, pushing the helmet up. It's a penalty.
The other call was definitely bad.
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Sorry but no. That was a short instant in an otherwise longer engagement. You can pretty much stop action on any NFL play and find a penalty if you looked hard enough.
It was a bad call.
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The rule states "It is a foul if an offensive blocker: Thrusts his hands forward above the frame of an opponent to contact him on the head, neck, or face."
IMO, he clearly has his hands on the neck here, pushing the helmet up. It's a penalty.
The other call was definitely bad.
From the 2019 NFL Rule Book, regarding defensive illegal use of hands to the face:
"Contact in close-line play is not a foul, unless it is direct and forcible, or prolonged."
At most, Flowers' hand slid upward and contacted the side of Bakhtiari's chin for a moment. It was not direct, forcible or prolonged.
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The rule states "It is a foul if an offensive blocker..."
Ahem...
Unless, of course, you're trying to make a case that the offensive lineman should have been called since he got his hands in Flowers' case on both of the plays in question.
Rather, each of the plays should have been a no-call because neither the offensive nor defensive player made "forcible" contact (i.e., "direct and forcible, or prolonged"). See Rule 12-1-3(a) and 12-1-7 (https://operations.nfl.com/media/3831/2019-playing-rules.pdf)
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I should not feel like I'm doing statutory analysis when watching a football game.
All of this parsing of the rule is terrible, regardless of whether the conclusion was that a flag should or shouldn't be thrown. The very fact that we're having this argument tells me the rulebook/rule-enforcement-regime has failed.
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New go-to if anyone disagrees with me on this board going forward.
https://twitter.com/tae15adams/status/1184141813755584516 (https://twitter.com/tae15adams/status/1184141813755584516)
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Because they simply aren't overturning calls on the field and coaches want to protect their ability to challenge and time-outs. I have seen more blatant non-calls challenged, and they aren't being given. Frankly, official review of PI has been the disaster that many predicted it would be.
Mid-fourth quarter, two-point lead, a full allotment of timeouts, AR on the opposing sidelines, potential 40-yard pickup that puts you well within your kicker's FG range...
Even if Patricia's gun-shy based on what you said above, that's the spot where I take the gamble on that call.
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Ahem...
Unless, of course, you're trying to make a case that the offensive lineman should have been called since he got his hands in Flowers' case on both of the plays in question.
Rather, each of the plays should have been a no-call because neither the offensive nor defensive player made "forcible" contact (i.e., "direct and forcible, or prolonged"). See Rule 12-1-3(a) and 12-1-7 (https://operations.nfl.com/media/3831/2019-playing-rules.pdf)
Not sure how I missed that. Thanks for correcting me.
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Today’s players are simply too big and fast for the current group of referees.
The league ought to create an academy of officiating. Each year, hundreds of players see their NFL dreams crater. The league could offer a paid program to teach these guys how to officiate.
Given their youth and relative closeness to playing the game, it would inject football with officials more able to keep up with the speed of the game.
It could be a first step to full-time officials and replenish the college ranks with young, potentially upwardly-mobile officials.
Since it would cost the league and owners money out of their pockets, it’s probably a non-starter
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Ahem...
Unless, of course, you're trying to make a case that the offensive lineman should have been called since he got his hands in Flowers' case on both of the plays in question.
Rather, each of the plays should have been a no-call because neither the offensive nor defensive player made "forcible" contact (i.e., "direct and forcible, or prolonged"). See Rule 12-1-3(a) and 12-1-7 (https://operations.nfl.com/media/3831/2019-playing-rules.pdf)
So what we know is that on the first call, the defensive player did "Thrusts his hands forward above the frame of an opponent to contact him on the head, neck, or face," consistent with illegal use of hands. But it becomes a judgement call if it was "forcible or direct". A judgement call made during live action from 5-10 yards away, in real time.
A judgement call that required announcers and experts slow motion replays to even see if he had his hands on shoulder pads or the neck.
Maybe, calls like that are hard to make in real time.
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Lost in all of this is that Rodgers, stats aside due to drops, played his best game in maybe 3+ years. That has to be encouraging for them.
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So what we know is that on the first call, the defensive player did "Thrusts his hands forward above the frame of an opponent to contact him on the head, neck, or face," consistent with illegal use of hands. But it becomes a judgement call if it was "forcible or direct". A judgement call made during live action from 5-10 yards away, in real time.
A judgement call that required announcers and experts slow motion replays to even see if he had his hands on shoulder pads or the neck.
Maybe, calls like that are hard to make in real time.
No, Flowers did not thrust his hands up above the frame. If you watch the play in its entirety, rather than a snapshot, his hands were on Bakhtiari's shoulder pads for the majority of their engagement. His hands slid up slightly near the end of the play.
Yes, calls like that are hard to make. It being hard is no excuse for getting it wrong over and over again by highly paid professionals who are supposed to be the best on the planet at what they do.
Completing a pass in the NFL also is hard, but I don't think anyone is using that fact to defend Jameis Winston's performance on Sunday.
I'm really not getting some Packers' fans efforts to rationalize this. It was their turn last night to benefit from some bad calls. Given the current state of NFL officiating, the role almost certainly will be reversed at some point this season and the Packers will get hosed by bad calls. My guess is when that happens, Packers fans won't be justifying it because it's hard to get it right.
Edit: Just to note. as did StillAWarrior ... I'm not a fan of the Packers or Lions (or Bears or Vikings, for that matter). I had no fantasy or betting interest in the game's outcome. I just hate to see bad officiating decide - or significantly alter - games, as it did here.
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Lost in all of this is that Rodgers, stats aside due to drops, played his best game in maybe 3+ years. That has to be encouraging for them.
This. He looked like the best QB in the NFL for the first time in the last 3 seasons.
And Jamal looked like a man possessed. He ran hard.
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So what we know is that on the first call, the defensive player did "Thrusts his hands forward above the frame of an opponent to contact him on the head, neck, or face," consistent with illegal use of hands. But it becomes a judgement call if it was "forcible or direct". A judgement call made during live action from 5-10 yards away, in real time.
A judgement call that required announcers and experts slow motion replays to even see if he had his hands on shoulder pads or the neck.
Maybe, calls like that are hard to make in real time.
Honestly, I don't disagree; it's not an easy call to make. But it is an odd call. Particularly where the rule specifically says, "Contact in close-line play is not a foul, unless it is direct and forcible, or prolonged." Note it is "forcible and direct, or prolonged" -- not "forcible or direct." But the rule seems to make it pretty clear that except in unusual cases, it's not to be called in "close-line play." I don't think that this was an unusual circumstance. There's contact pretty much like that on most extended blocking engagement. Like, for example, the contact that the offensive lineman made with Flowers' face on the two plays in question.
For the record, I'm not particularly a fan of either team, but was rooting for the Packers last night for fantasy reasons. This isn't an anti-Packers thing.
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Honestly, I don't disagree; it's not an easy call to make. But it is an odd call. Particularly where the rule specifically says, "Contact in close-line play is not a foul, unless it is direct and forcible, or prolonged." Note it is "forcible and direct, or prolonged" -- not "forcible or direct." But the rule seems to make it pretty clear that except in unusual cases, it's not to be called in "close-line play." I don't think that this was an unusual circumstance. There's contact pretty much like that on most extended blocking engagement. Like, for example, the contact that the offensive lineman made with Flowers' face on the two plays in question.
For the record, I'm not particularly a fan of either team, but was rooting for the Packers last night for fantasy reasons. This isn't an anti-Packers thing.
The forcible, direct or prolonged (I left that one out, because it was clearly not the case here), is too vague, honestly. The same language is used for hits to the QBs head and other plays. In the Packers game last week, Gary brushed Dak's helmet, didn't even hit him, was called for it. I've seen several calls against O-lineman similar to what was called against Flowers this week.
It usually doesn't get as much attention, because it is usually not followed by big game changing plays, and the announcer doesn't usually fixate on it in slow motion.
The judgmental calls like this (and PI) are just too hard in real time. I wonder if we sometimes see flurries of calls like this, because it was a point of emphasis in a recent officials meeting.
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The forcible, direct or prolonged (I left that one out, because it was clearly not the case here), is too vague, honestly. The same language is used for hits to the QBs head and other plays. In the Packers game last week, Gary brushed Dak's helmet, didn't even hit him, was called for it. I've seen several calls against O-lineman similar to what was called against Flowers this week.
It usually doesn't get as much attention, because it is usually not followed by big game changing plays, and the announcer doesn't usually fixate on it in slow motion.
But I think that the more important part of that phrase is the "contact in close-line play is not a foul..." The general rule is that it's not a foul, and the other language ("forcible and direct, or prolonged") is for those unusual cases when an exception should be made. There was nothing exceptional about either of those plays. They were absolutely typical line play where both players made brief contact with the others' face.
While I agree with you that the use of similar language in the QB rule shows that the rules are vague, everyone knows that the level of protection given to QBs is extreme. I'm not defending the call in the Packer's game last week -- in fact, I haven't seen it -- but they are being very protective of QBs. That isn't the case for linemen. Perhaps one could argue that they same language should be interpreted the same way in both cases, but it's not. And if it was, there should have been offsetting penalties on the two Flowers' plays last night.
The judgmental calls like this (and PI) are just too hard in real time. I wonder if we sometimes see flurries of calls like this, because it was a point of emphasis in a recent officials meeting.
I agree. However, I don't recall a recent flurry of such calls in the trenches (although I admittedly didn't watch too many game this past weekend). Just two calls against the same player late in a single game. And in both cases, the contact by the offensive player was comparable (at least) to the contact by the defensive player. To me, they just seemed like unusual calls.
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my guess is someone on the packers sideline said to the refs the Lions Dline have had their hands in our face all game can watch for it. Slow motion always makes the calls easier.
At full speed hard to tell Refs have keys to watch for when you see a linemen's head jerk back that might be a key.
I agree 100% they should have an academy for refs. I started reffing HS games recently and it is not an easy gig.
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Rodgers was excellent in all of 2016 for the first 5 games of 2017. He really only "struggled" last year.
Agreed that he was great last night. Definitely his best game of the year.
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Not only am not sure that was Rodgers best game this season (that might have been Minnesota), I know he was clearly better during last year's season opener v. the Bears. He also had some real good games last year, but the season was a disaster by that point.
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https://www.barstoolsports.com/barstoolu/rumors-flying-massive-wagers-keep-being-placed-on-games-officiated-by-crew-from-packers-lions-games-last-night
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Cmon...barstool?
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Cmon...barstool?
Have to agree with Fluffy here. But, I do love that one tweet they show of one of the Flowers' plays -- not sure whether it was the first or the second -- and one of the guys in the background has a handful of facemask. I'm going to be looking for this when I watch games this weekend. I'm guessing that there will be contact with the face on pretty much every single blocking assignment. Which is, of course, exactly why the rule tries to make clear that in normal cases such contact is not a foul.
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Cmon...barstool?
Oh jeez.
Take the story with a grain of salt. It isn't a bastion of hard hitting/breaking news. It's entertainment/comedy most of the time.
More importantly, a lot of aggregated tweets/pictures from the game of plays talked about here.
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Have to agree with Fluffy here. But, I do love that one tweet they show of one of the Flowers' plays -- not sure whether it was the first or the second -- and one of the guys in the background has a handful of facemask. I'm going to be looking for this when I watch games this weekend. I'm guessing that there will be contact with the face on pretty much every single blocking assignment. Which is, of course, exactly why the rule tries to make clear that in normal cases such contact is not a foul.
A big part of all of this is Baktiari specifically addressed Flowers' repeated hands to the face with the officials during the game.
So they were specifically looking for it and Baktiari sold it.
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A big part of all of this is Baktiari specifically addressed Flowers' repeated hands to the face with the officials during the game.
So they were specifically looking for it and Baktiari sold it.
I promise I'm not arguing just for the sake of arguing, but that kind of makes it even worse for me. It is indisputable that on both plays that got flagged, Bakhtiari got his hands in Flowers' face. I would think that any competent ref would say to Bakhtiari, "quit whining...you've got your hands in his face too." To give in to Bakhtiari's whining when he was getting his hands in Flowers' face too is ridiculous. And if he didn't notice...well that's pretty ridiculous too.
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Forget the officials. My takeaway was that Booger sucks. First time I'd watched much MNF this season. You don't have to fill every silence. I liked him last year as a 3rd guy. Does he always talk this much as the #2?
Just catching up on my reading here-my thoughts exactly! Who is this booooger? Someone get him some decaf next game. And he wouldn’t let it go. I wonder if he saw those games where clay got 2 nasty roughing the QB calls just for playing football. What goes around...
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I thought Detroit was the better team out there tonight. They made the mistake of getting field goals instead of TD’s.
That Umpire should be suspended, or at least barred from the postseason. Watching these replays, it’s unfathomable to me someone can make the exact same call, within 9 minutes of game play, with a player like Flowers who has never committed that penalty. How the ref, staring at same players on both replays, didn’t overrule is absurd.
you act as if Detroit had a choice to go for touchdowns vs field goals. take away the first quarter and 2 long plays and the Packers defense dominated. Check the second half stats
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Jalen Ramsey to the Rams for two firsts and a fourth.
Draft picks ain't worth what they used to be.
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Jalen Ramsey to the Rams for two firsts and a fourth.
Draft picks ain't worth what they used to be.
Rams secondary got quite the makeover today. If the Rams end up going 8-8, that’ll be a hefty price.
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Rams secondary got quite the makeover today. If the Rams end up going 8-8, that’ll be a hefty price.
Kind of a weird move. Ramsey is elite, but the Rams play in a largely run-game dominated division with many top WRs (beyond Fitzgerald, who's past prime).
Seems like a panicky reaction to their recent play.
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Kind of a weird move. Ramsey is elite, but the Rams play in a largely run-game dominated division with many top WRs (beyond Fitzgerald, who's past prime).
Seems like a panicky reaction to their recent play.
Rams as of the moment will go without first round picks from ‘17 through ‘21. That’s old school Redskins stuff
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Kind of a weird move. Ramsey is elite, but the Rams play in a largely run-game dominated division with many top WRs (beyond Fitzgerald, who's past prime).
Seems like a panicky reaction to their recent play.
They also are going to have to pay Ramsey now too, or at least soon. With Donald and Goff with big numbers already, I don’t know how they are going to take on a third massive number. Whole thing seems strange, and Ramsey is great, just kinda weird fit.
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They technically could go year to year with Ramsey for the next 2 years with the 5th year option and franchise tag, but hard to see him letting that fly.
It's a huge price for the best CB in the NFL - whoever has been in that spot has had a relatively short stay, but Ramsey is much younger than the last couple (Revis, Sherman). That said, not sure an elite CB is worth the same price (and more) as a pass rusher like Mack.
This is, however, the model when you have a QB on his rookie deal. Chips to the table.
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They technically could go year to year with Ramsey for the next 2 years with the 5th year option and franchise tag, but hard to see him letting that fly.
It's a huge price for the best CB in the NFL - whoever has been in that spot has had a relatively short stay, but Ramsey is much younger than the last couple (Revis, Sherman). That said, not sure an elite CB is worth the same price (and more) as a pass rusher like Mack.
This is, however, the model when you have a QB on his rookie deal. Chips to the table.
In this case though, Goff’s rookie deal is over. Next year, Goff and Donald consume 37% of the Rams cap space. If anything, they’re trying to take advantage of Ramsey’s rookie deal still. I don’t know if Ramsey will be open to being franchised either. Trading Peters helps, but Ramsey’s deal eventually will dwarf it. I just don’t know how they can possibly have three guys taking up 50% of their cap space in one (or both) of the next two years. Especially with no early round picks to use as cheap cap space labor.
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RIP Brocktober.
Brock Osweiler is retiring.
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RIP Brocktober.
Brock Osweiler is retiring.
$41 million in career earnings. 37 total TD passes. 15-15 record as a starter.
What a country.
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$41 million in career earnings. 37 total TD passes. 15-15 record as a starter.
What a country.
I'm raising my son to be tall.
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I'm raising my son to be tall.
So he can be a stiff for the badger like than one dude that quit? Markoff? He was just tall, too.
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So he can be a stiff for the badger like than one dude that quit? Markoff? He was just tall, too.
I might fail as a father in many ways, but instilling a healthy hatred for the Badgers won't be one of them.
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This. He looked like the best QB in the NFL for the first time in the last 3 seasons.
And Jamal looked like a man possessed. He ran hard.
I was not at all a fan of Williams last year. I don't know if he was dealing with injuries or what, but he seemed indecisive, un-explosive, and completely lacking a second gear. He looks like a completely different runner this year.
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I'm raising my son to be tall.
Jimmy Mac can provide you some tips.
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Calling for a sneak with your already gimpy MVP quarterback seems like a bad idea.
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Raiders defensive coordinator calls NFL's suspension of Burfect "a witch hunt."
https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/raiders-defensive-coordinator-calls-vontaze-burficts-suspension-a-witch-hunt/
Actually, it was a witch trial, and Burfect was burned at the stake. And justifiably so.
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Can't believe anyone would suggest the Packers get home cooking at Lambeau.
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Fumble into end zone is one of the worst rules in sports
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Can't believe anyone would suggest the Packers get home cooking at Lambeau.
Where is the home cooking today?
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Where is the home cooking today?
Phantom PI call led to second Packers TD (perhaps a hold before pass was thrown, but that's 5 yards vs 22)
Kumerow stepped out of bounds at the five on the third "score."
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Phantom PI call led to second Packers TD (perhaps a hold before pass was thrown, but that's 5 yards vs 22)
Kumerow stepped out of bounds at the five on the third "score."
That was as obvious of a hold as I’ve ever seen. I don’t know if the ball was in the air yet or not, never got an angle of it. Either way it’s an automatic first down.
You thought there was clear and conclusive evidence that Kumerow stepped out? You apparently have an angle that you and only you had, because nothing they showed (nor that the refs had, apparently) supports that.
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That was as obvious of a hold as I’ve ever seen. I don’t know if the ball was in the air or not yet, never got an angle of it. Either way it’s an automatic first down.
You thought there was clear and conclusive evidence that Kumerow stepped out? You apparently have an angle that you and only you had, because nothing they showed (nor that the refs had, apparently) supports that.
It was a hold, which is 5 yards. The PI call made it 22. You obviously see the difference, right?
Sorry for the size of the photo, but yeah, it's clear he stepped out.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EHV6254WsAE-5DV?format=jpg&name=large)
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It was a hold, which is 5 yards. The PI call made it 22. You obviously see the difference, right?
Sorry for the size of the photo, but yeah, it's clear he stepped out.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EHV6254WsAE-5DV?format=jpg&name=large)
If the ball is in the air it’s a PI. They never showed a replay showing where the ball was.
I see nothing there to say he’s clearly out of bounds. Gun to my head I’d say his foot touches the paint. But I can’t say that for sure. If it’s that clear they obviously just overturn the call, given they reviewed it (scoring play). If they called him out of bounds originally they keep it that way. Inconclusive.
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Where is the home cooking today?
In Champaign Urbana. LOL
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In Champaign Urbana. LOL
What?
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Fumble into end zone is one of the worst rules in sports
Only to be topped by giving nba teams the ability to advance ball because they did something in a huddle...call a timeout.
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Somehow the on-field officials missed that out of bounds play as well. Weird.
We'll see if it's conclusive enough for the replay booth.
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Somehow the on-field officials missed that out of bounds play as well. Weird.
We'll see if it's conclusive enough for the replay booth.
It was.
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It was a hold, which is 5 yards. The PI call made it 22. You obviously see the difference, right?
Sorry for the size of the photo, but yeah, it's clear he stepped out.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EHV6254WsAE-5DV?format=jpg&name=large)
no thats anything but clear
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Let me guess. Jacobs clearly over the plane. 😂
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Thank you, refs, for this 42-17 lead.
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Thank you, refs, for this 42-17 lead.
Sheesh, you guys sure are sensitive. Pointing out when your team benefits from a bad call is not a personal affront.
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Sheesh, you guys sure are sensitive. Pointing out when your team benefits from a bad call is not a personal affront.
If my team benefitted from a bad call I’d agree. The Packers benefitted from a bad call last week. No issue discussing it when they do.
Pretending there were clear bad calls when that isn’t the case is very worth mocking.
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If my team benefitted from a bad call I’d agree. The Packers benefitted from a bad call last week. No issue discussing it when they do.
Pretending there were clear bad calls when that isn’t the case is very worth mocking.
Agreed. Last week was a joke. This week was just close calls that could have gone either way.
The Kumerow score didnt matter anyway, the lead was huge, and the ball would have gone out to the 10
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It was a hold, which is 5 yards. The PI call made it 22. You obviously see the difference, right?
Sorry for the size of the photo, but yeah, it's clear he stepped out.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EHV6254WsAE-5DV?format=jpg&name=large)
At the Stadium they showed a super close up of the Kumerow out of bounds issue. Exactly what the refs see. When they did that it wasn’t very obvious that he stepped out. Good to not reverse because it wasn’t clear.
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Bears offense stinks. Trubisky ain't helping, but it sure as heck isn't all on him either. Playcalling/scheme leaves a lot to be desired.
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Cardinals victory
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I mean, it needs to be said, the Saints should be up 32-3 right now. Total ass kicking again, this time off the bye.
The Trubisky/Nagy combo is so bad, one is grossly incompetent, other is a complete fraud. That’s not a recipe for success.
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Saints better without Brees....
Bears better without Mitchell.
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Bears offense stinks. Trubisky ain't helping, but it sure as heck isn't all on him either. Playcalling/scheme leaves a lot to be desired.
It’s mostly on Trubisky. And the OL.
When a coach has to come out and say we need to simplify our offense for Mitch, isn’t that the same thing as saying our Mitch sucks?
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I mean, it needs to be said, the Saints should be up 32-3 right now. Total ass kicking again, this time off the bye.
The Trubisky/Nagy combo is so bad, one is grossly incompetent, other is a complete fraud. That’s not a recipe for success.
Dish
Trusbisky reminds me a little of Rick Mirer, former ND, Seahawk and Bear QB. Scouts loved his size, arm strength, mobility, etc. The only apparent drawback was that he wasn't a particularly accurate passer. Without an accurate arm all that other stuff doesn't matter much. Another fault of Trubisky's is he locks on his receivers early.
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Saints better without Brees....
Bears better without Mitchell.
Saints winning with and without Brees. Panthers winning without Newton...coming up on almost a year since Panthers last won with Newton.
Bears draft pick looks dumber and dumber by the year.
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Well the Bears have mastered the onside kick at least.
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I don't even know what the Bears are trying to do on offense.
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I don't even know what the Bears are trying to do on offense.
Neither do they.
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Nagy's figured out the problem.
https://twitter.com/JasonLieser/status/1186075975324446720
Oy...
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I don't even know what the Bears are trying to do on offense.
I said this a couple weeks ago on here, the Bears have zero offensive identity. Name one thing they do well. I can’t either.
I’ve beat the Nagy is a fraud drum for over a year. He doesn’t gameplan well, mismanages the clock way too often, his adjustments are stubborn and predictable. By far though the biggest indictment on Nagy is he has done nothing to improve Mitch. Trubisky has regressed this year, Nagy has to own that.
The gadget plays and cute formations are all window dressing. Matt Nagy is not capable to be an NFL head coach.
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In contrast, LeFleur has become much, much more comfortable calling games after the scripted portion of the game. Him and Rodgers are starting to click, and Rodgers is starting to look like his old self.
I’m not totally sold on the defense yet, though. Better than last year, but I don’t think they’re as good as they got hyped up from their first couple weeks.
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In contrast, LeFleur has become much, much more comfortable calling games after the scripted portion of the game. Him and Rodgers are starting to click, and Rodgers is starting to look like his old self.
I’m not totally sold on the defense yet, though. Better than last year, but I don’t think they’re as good as they got hyped up from their first couple weeks.
Yeah I agree on the defense. They weren’t great today.
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In contrast, LeFleur has become much, much more comfortable calling games after the scripted portion of the game. Him and Rodgers are starting to click, and Rodgers is starting to look like his old self.
I’m not totally sold on the defense yet, though. Better than last year, but I don’t think they’re as good as they got hyped up from their first couple weeks.
They really need another big body along the D-line and a middle linebacker that will stuff the run.
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Yeah I agree on the defense. They weren’t great today.
They admit to selling out for the pass rush, but they're really missing Savage deep. His career was off to a great start. They got picked on up the seams today.
Loving what we saw from the offense - they've won just about every type of game thus far.
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I said this a couple weeks ago on here, the Bears have zero offensive identity. Name one thing they do well. I can’t either.
I’ve beat the Nagy is a fraud drum for over a year. He doesn’t gameplan well, mismanages the clock way too often, his adjustments are stubborn and predictable. By far though the biggest indictment on Nagy is he has done nothing to improve Mitch. Trubisky has regressed this year, Nagy has to own that.
The gadget plays and cute formations are all window dressing. Matt Nagy is not capable to be an NFL head coach.
Lowest run attempts in franchise history in a game that was close at halftime. Montgomery had as many carries as the WRs. If Pace didn’t ream out Nagy post-game, Virginia might have.
https://www.nbcchicago.com/blogs/grizzly-detail/bears-make-history-in-loss-to-saints-563518311.html
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Anybody with better NFL intelligence than me comment on this:
https://twitter.com/DanDeYoung80/status/1186117065163313153?s=19
Are the receivers open?
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Anybody with better NFL intelligence than me comment on this:
https://twitter.com/DanDeYoung80/status/1186117065163313153?s=19
Are the receivers open?
https://www.nbcsports.com/chicago/bears/another-lackluster-return-mitch-trubisky-leaves-bears-offense-state-panic
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https://www.nbcsports.com/chicago/bears/another-lackluster-return-mitch-trubisky-leaves-bears-offense-state-panic
Ya. I also found this twitter thread:
https://twitter.com/Brickwallblitz/status/1186142858501382144?s=19
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There is nothing more damaging to an NFL franchise than being wrong about the QB it drafts high in the first round.
It can set a franchise back years, maybe even a decade.
The mistake gets even worse if the franchise traded up to make the pick.
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I don't know how much more development Trubisky has left. Every couple of games he'll make a pass that reminds you why he was drafted where he was, but not enough to make you believe that he can do it full time.
If I were a Bears fan, I'd be more worried about Nagy. He runs the ball with less dedication than his mentor, but more importantly, he seems painfully unaware of what type and character of football team he has. You look at what Lafleur is doing with Aaron Jones and Jamaal Williams, and there's no excuse that Cohen and Montgomery are not being used as creatively. The Bears should be playing possession football.
If play calling were just a bit more imaginative and adaptable, and you had a quarterback even of Nick Foles caliber, this would be a contending team.
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No excuses, Bears just aren’t very good but man do I hate losing to Sean Payton.
Dude is such an ass
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If the Bears don't bounce back this season, they SHOULD cut ties with Nagy. But what is more likely is that they will make Helfrich the sacrificial lamb.
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If the Bears don't bounce back this season, they SHOULD cut ties with Nagy. But what is more likely is that they will make Helfrich the sacrificial lamb.
Agreed. I always say the most important thing an organization needs is self-awareness. Whatever window the Bears may have is going to get slammed shut fast. The McCaskey's don't have the moxy to make quick changes like that though.
While Nagy and Trubisky should be hung out to dry today, their "vaunted" defense did not show up at all yesterday, they got trucked for the second straight week. Whatever is going on with Roquan Smith, he was brutal yesterday.
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In contrast, LeFleur has become much, much more comfortable calling games after the scripted portion of the game. Him and Rodgers are starting to click, and Rodgers is starting to look like his old self.
I’m not totally sold on the defense yet, though. Better than last year, but I don’t think they’re as good as they got hyped up from their first couple weeks.
Desperately need Savage back.
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https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/10/21/deshaun-watsons-pre-draft-comments-get-new-life/
Before the 2017 draft, Clemson coach Dabo Swinney said that passing on quarterback Deshaun Watson would be the equivalent of passing on Michael Jordan. The Bears nevertheless rolled the dice on the quarterback from Jordan’s college.
And they possibly passed on both Michael Jordan and Magic Johnson.
Trubisky’s latest performance apparently sparked the dusting off of comments made by Watson in the days prior to the 2017 draft, regarding the notion of taking Trubisky before Watson. Our tweet from April 2017 containing Watson’s quotes has resurfaced.
“You’re gonna have to live with the consequences that come with it,” Watson said told NFL Network regarding a decision to draft Trubisky over Watson. “That’s how I see it. I try to stay in my lane. I try not to take the path. I respect Mitch and what he’s done and all the hype he’s getting, but at the same time, my result speaks for itself. I feel like I’ve accomplished everything that I could. I guess if that’s who they’re gonna roll with, so be it.”
Watson starred at Clemson, in the same conference as Trubisky’s North Carolina.
“It’s like a slap in the face, to be honest,” Watson separately told Josina Anderson of ESPN as to the prospect of Trubisky being the first quarterback drafted. “You see all the things I’ve accomplished, it’s a long list, and they want to talk about the little negatives I have and bring somebody else up? It’s a little disrespectful.”
History has proven Watson to be accurate. Although Trubisky showed promise in 2018, this year has gone poorly for Trubisky and the Chicago offense. While it may still improve, there’s a growing sense that Trubisky will never measure up to Watson or Patrick Mahomes, both of whom were taken after Trubisky.
That’s not a knock on Trubisky. He didn’t draft himself before Watson; the Bears did. To make matters worse, the Bears traded up a spot to get Trubisky.
Those dynamics place even more pressure on Trubisky to live up to the early-career performances of guys like Watson and Mahomes. Although Watson may not be one to say “I told you so,” he doesn’t need to.
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Mahomes has what it takes to be a top-20 QB all time. Watson, I feel less certain about but I do think he'll have a long, outstanding career. At this point, they do everything considerably better than Trubisky does. Everything.
It's easy to have 20/20 hindsight, but having seen Trubisky a good deal during his time at UNC, I was quite surprised when I saw the early draft projections of him even being a first-rounder. Obviously, as he kept moving up the board, I allowed that I could have been missing something that NFL scouts were seeing, as I'm no expert on all the "measurables."
As I said earlier, this decision could set the Bears back years if he somehow doesn't "find" it.
That said, guys like Bradshaw, Staubach, Young, even Elway, took a couple/few years to refine their raw talent. Maybe there's hope for Mitch. Or maybe, rather than Steve Young, he's Vince Young.
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That said, guys like Bradshaw, Staubach, Young, even Elway, took a couple/few years to refine their raw talent. Maybe there's hope for Mitch. Or maybe, rather than Steve Young, he's Vince Young.
So the most recent example you could come up with is a guy who rebounded his career over 25 years ago?
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So the most recent example you could come up with is a guy who rebounded his career over 25 years ago?
Well, those were just top of my head guys. But honestly, while I can think of plenty of guys who were later bloomers for a variety of reasons (Rodgers stuck behind Favre, Brees not getting a fair shot early, etc), it isn't easy to think of high No. 1 picks who sucked early but then actually went on to be studs.
There have been a lot more Vince Youngs, David Klinglers, Ryan Leafs and JaMarcus Russells than Jim Plunketts and Terry Bradshaws.
Which doesn't bode as well for the Bears, I suppose.
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it isn't easy to think of high No. 1 picks who sucked early but then actually went on to be studs.
How about Big Ben, Luck or Eli?
Or is Trubisky the next Jameis Winston, Marcus Mariota or Blake Bortals?
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How about Big Ben, Luck or Eli?
Eli has never been a stud. He's been good, very good at times, but is going to make the Hall of Fame primarily on accumulation stats and where he played. That being said, that is probably the best people can hope for from Mitch. But he's not close to there yet.
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Anyone who watched GB and then the Bears got an easy lesson why Trubisky is just a poor man’s Tim Tebow.
How many times did AR scan the entire field before scoring? And how many times did MT lock on one receiver from the snap to the throw?
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I've defended Mitch Trubisky from the day they drafted him. I thought the Bears would ultimately develop an NFL quarterback who, with THAT defense, can lead the team to greater heights.
Silly me!
I've been a Bear season ticket holder for 25 years (and Packer fan to boot, so that's another story) and I don't think I have been as angry at a Bears game as I was yesterday. The Frisbee football teams that competed at halftime were better equipped for the Bear game yesterday than the Bears were. Trubisky doesn't have it and looking at the passes he missed, never will.
The Saints were almost daring him to throw downfield, in a defense reminiscent of the Rex Grossman ("Sexy Rexy") era. They know if Trubisky did, the pass would either be incomplete (overthrown) or intercepted. I doubt another year of mentoring, training or preparing will change anything. In short, Trubisky seemed lost.
Jay Cutler -- are you fit and ready to play? He'd be an improvement!
The Bears are screwed. They gave up next year's first rounder for Khalil Mack, so it's at least two years before things change. And how good will the defense be then? And that's not to mention the need for back-ups and replacements over the period.
Wonder if Mack wishes he'd signed with Green Bay right now?
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Anyone who watched GB and then the Bears got an easy lesson why Trubisky is just a poor man’s Tim Tebow.
Given that Tebow is one of the worst NFL QBs in many, many years ... and you're saying Trubisky isn't even that good ... yikes!
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There is nothing more damaging to an NFL franchise than being wrong about the QB it drafts high in the first round.
This Packers fan suggests the solution to the Bears QB woes is to bring back Jay Cutler.
EDIT: I see dgies beat me to it
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The Onion stands victorious https://sports.theonion.com/i-m-just-here-to-win-football-games-says-22-year-old-1819579929/amp?__twitter_impression=true (https://sports.theonion.com/i-m-just-here-to-win-football-games-says-22-year-old-1819579929/amp?__twitter_impression=true)
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There is nothing more damaging to an NFL franchise than being wrong about the QB it drafts high in the first round.
It can set a franchise back years, maybe even a decade.
The mistake gets even worse if the franchise traded up to make the pick.
This. I said at the beginning of the year that we'd know about the Bears and their QB by the end of the year. We may know by the end of November.
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Jets QB not looking so hot this week either.
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I don’t blame the Bears for passing on Mahomes, as nobody saw that coming.
But cmon, Deshaun Watson did nothing but win at Clemson. You didn’t have to trade up to get him, probably could have even traded down and gotten more value.
I have been patient with Trubisky, but he has actually regressed this year. It would be one thing if he played the same last last season, but he’s actually gotten worse.
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I don’t blame the Bears for passing on Mahomes, as nobody saw that coming.
But cmon, Deshaun Watson did nothing but win at Clemson. You didn’t have to trade up to get him, probably could have even traded down and gotten more value.
I have been patient with Trubisky, but he has actually regressed this year. It would be one thing if he played the same last last season, but he’s actually gotten worse.
Well, it's not as if Mahomes was a 6th-round pick.
He was the No. 10 overall selection, and one of the great offensive minds in NFL history drafted him, so I'm guessing a few folks more than "nobody" thought he was going to be a franchise quarterback. I do know what you meant, though: Few likely thought he would be an MVP-caliber player so early in his career.
I have read elsewhere that "nobody" saw McCaffrey's potential, either. But the Panthers drafted him No. 8 overall, and if they didn't take him there somebody else would have taken him shortly thereafter. Thank goodness the Panthers weren't dissuaded by his decision to skip a meaningless exhibition game!
Obviously agree with you about Watson.
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I don’t blame the Bears for passing on Mahomes, as nobody saw that coming.
Chiefs saw it coming. They gave up two first-round picks plus to draft him, despite having a Pro Bowl QB on the roster who was coming off a career season and 12-4 record.
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Chiefs saw it coming. They gave up two first-round picks plus to draft him, despite having a Pro Bowl QB on the roster who was coming off a career season and 12-4 record.
Yep. Andy Reid > Pace/Nagy. (And most others.)
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Well, it's not as if Mahomes was a 6th-round pick.
He was the No. 10 overall selection, and one of the great offensive minds in NFL history drafted him, so I'm guessing a few folks more than "nobody" thought he was going to be a franchise quarterback. I do know what you meant, though: Few likely thought he would be an MVP-caliber player so early in his career.
He wasn't an unheard of nobody, but he was a fringe first round pick, early 2nd leading up to it. I remember specifically people being like "oh wow, what are the Chiefs doing?!" when they took him. It was viewed as quite a stretch for 10, unheard of for where the Bears were.
I don’t blame the Bears for passing on Mahomes, as nobody saw that coming.
But cmon, Deshaun Watson did nothing but win at Clemson. You didn’t have to trade up to get him, probably could have even traded down and gotten more value.
I have been patient with Trubisky, but he has actually regressed this year. It would be one thing if he played the same last last season, but he’s actually gotten worse.
I wanted Watson from the minute I realized the Bears would be one of the worst teams in the league that year. My biggest worry is that they would be 4 or 5 and Watson would go top 3. Then he inexplicably started to slide and I hoped they would stick to their guns or trade down and get him. My biggest nightmare was Watson going top 2, the Bears missing him, and taking Kizer. This has turned out to be almost worse.
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He wasn't an unheard of nobody, but he was a fringe first round pick, early 2nd leading up to it. I remember specifically people being like "oh wow, what are the Chiefs doing?!" when they took him. It was viewed as quite a stretch for 10, unheard of for where the Bears were.
I wanted Watson from the minute I realized the Bears would be one of the worst teams in the league that year. My biggest worry is that they would be 4 or 5 and Watson would go top 3. Then he inexplicably started to slide and I hoped they would stick to their guns or trade down and get him. My biggest nightmare was Watson going top 2, the Bears missing him, and taking Kizer. This has turned out to be almost worse.
Trading down for either Watson or Mahomes would have been the winning strategy. Trading up for a guy who had done next to nothing in college because you liked his "measurables" ... oy.
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Just thinking of how tight the NFC is, some intra-conference games coming up that look good and of interest to me. As much fun as Pack/Saints would be right now, the Pack/Niners game will be a great measuring stick for San Fran. Vikings still meet up with the Cowboys and Seahawks. Niners last 6 weeks is brutal, they go Pack, @Balt, @NO, Atl, Rams, @Sea.
I’d include the Bears brutal schedule, but I think it’s a waste of everyone’s time.
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Yep. Andy Reid > Pace/Nagy. (And most others.)
Wasn't Nagy on Reid's staff when they drafted Mahomes?
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Just thinking of how tight the NFC is, some intra-conference games coming up that look good and of interest to me. As much fun as Pack/Saints would be right now, the Pack/Niners game will be a great measuring stick for San Fran. Vikings still meet up with the Cowboys and Seahawks. Niners last 6 weeks is brutal, they go Pack, @Balt, @NO, Atl, Rams, @Sea.
I’d include the Bears brutal schedule, but I think it’s a waste of everyone’s time.
NFC is as competitive as its been in a while. What a contrast to the AFC right now. I think San Fran and Seattle are pretenders. Saints and Vikings for real. It will be fun to watch it sort out. Don't count Bears out yet.
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NFC is as competitive as its been in a while. What a contrast to the AFC right now. I think San Fran and Seattle are pretenders. Saints and Vikings for real. It will be fun to watch it sort out. Don't count Bears out yet.
Vikings will be for real if Cousins can perform against winning teams. Hasn’t happened yet.
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Vikings will be for real if Cousins can perform against winning teams. Hasn’t happened yet.
With their running game and defense, Cousins becomes more marginalized, but you are correct though they will need him at some point.
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Vikings will be for real if Cousins can perform against winning teams. Hasn’t happened yet.
Vikings will be for real if and only if they can cajole Bud Grant out of retirement.
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The Onion stands victorious https://sports.theonion.com/i-m-just-here-to-win-football-games-says-22-year-old-1819579929/amp?__twitter_impression=true (https://sports.theonion.com/i-m-just-here-to-win-football-games-says-22-year-old-1819579929/amp?__twitter_impression=true)
truly amazing
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Vikings will be for real if and only if they can cajole Bud Grant out of retirement.
Simms Lake.
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I'd be really curious on which QB, from that same draft, Nagy would have preferred. Mitch was already in Chicago when Nagy was hired.
I want to see Bears move on from Trubisky. Let Pace and Nagy build a roster together - in the scheme Nagy envisions.
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I'd be really curious on which QB, from that same draft, Nagy would have preferred. Mitch was already in Chicago when Nagy was hired.
I want to see Bears move on from Trubisky. Let Pace and Nagy build a roster together - in the scheme Nagy envisions.
Thanks for this. I had erroneously thought they drafted Trubisky.
Wasn't Nagy on Reid's staff when they drafted Mahomes?
Apparently so. See above.
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Pace did draft Trubisky. He hired Nagy to develop him.
When Pace was hired in 2015, it was "suggested" that he hire John Fox as coach. After three seasons of that failed experiment, the narrative was "now he gets to hire his own guy."
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Pace did draft Trubisky. He hired Nagy to develop him.
When Pace was hired in 2015, it was "suggested" that he hire John Fox as coach. After three seasons of that failed experiment, the narrative was "now he gets to hire his own guy."
Appreciate this, too, and I think I've finally got it through my thick skull: If Trubisky doesn't pan out, he will have been Pace's mess but not Nagy's. Correct?
I'm guessing Nagy's reputation also will have been stained some because he will not have been able to "coach up" Trubinsky well enough.
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Appreciate this, too, and I think I've finally got it through my thick skull: If Trubisky doesn't pan out, he will have been Pace's mess but not Nagy's. Correct?
I'm guessing Nagy's reputation also will have been stained some because he will not have been able to "coach up" Trubinsky well enough.
I think it will look bad for both of them. And I doubt the Bears change either one of them until at least the end of next year. They may dump the OC and the QB coach after this year, but the Bears don't make major changes easily, especially the year after they won the division.
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Let Pace and Nagy build a roster together - in the scheme Nagy envisions.
You want to give Pace a second crack at a rebuild after he effed up his first? You're far more forgiving than most NFL owners would be.
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Appreciate this, too, and I think I've finally got it through my thick skull: If Trubisky doesn't pan out, he will have been Pace's mess but not Nagy's. Correct?
I'm guessing Nagy's reputation also will have been stained some because he will not have been able to "coach up" Trubinsky well enough.
Correct. And its an unfortunately fascinating dichotomy in his legacy. Pace has done a pretty masterful job remaking the roster (something he did while being stuck with a lame duck coach), but he whiffed majorly and profoundly on a QB he traded up for. He was the youngest GM in the league, is still only 42, so I don't want to bury him completely for it, but it hurts.
As for Nagy, its tricky. He did great work with Alex Smith, but that was a multi-year NFL vet who had been a number 1 pick cause he was FANTASTIC in college. He had some hiccups, but was rounding into a pretty good QB his last years in SF with competent coaching. Trubisky was a complete unknown and raw. So maybe Nagy could have done better, but that alone shouldn't tarnish him too much. There is only so much you can do for a guy who just doesn't have it. Nagy gets plenty of guys open for him, Trubisky just misses them or doesn't see them. Nagy's legacy right now is more in danger cause he can't overcome that and cause he can't call a run game.
You want to give Pace a second crack at a rebuild after he effed up his first? You're far more forgiving than most NFL owners would be.
He didn't eff up the first. Hell, if they had aforementioned Alex Smith (the Redskins, uninjured version) this would be a damn good team. They whiffed on a QB, and thats damning, but they didn't mess up a rebuild.
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The old rule of thumb is that a GM gets to hire two coaches before he starts to take the heat himself. I'm sure there have been plenty of exceptions to that -- GMs who were canned more quickly, and GMs who were allowed to run through 3-4 coaches before getting the ax themselves.
I haven't lived in Chicago for 9+ years now, and I no longer follow the Bears very closely, so I appreciate the info and opinions that others are sharing here. My son still lives there, and he is a huge Bears fan, so I get to hear his angst-filled take on things fairly often.
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Yeah I'm not sure you can say this rebuild is effed up. They did go 12-4 last year. And they still are .500 now so there is still plenty of time to right the ship. So I think Pace has done a decent job outside of the quarterbacking situation. Remember that roster was a complete mess after three years of Phil Emery.
But I think Nagy might just not be ready for this. How he handled the kicking situation in the off-season was really bizarre. Now he's coming off as defensive and blaming the media, which IMO is never a good look.
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The old rule of thumb is that a GM gets to hire two coaches before he starts to take the heat himself. I'm sure there have been plenty of exceptions to that -- GMs who were canned more quickly, and GMs who were allowed to run through 3-4 coaches before getting the ax themselves.
I haven't lived in Chicago for 9+ years now, and I no longer follow the Bears very closely, so I appreciate the info and opinions that others are sharing here. My son still lives there, and he is a huge Bears fan, so I get to hear his angst-filled take on things fairly often.
But everybody knows he really didn't hire John Fox. The Bears hired former Giants GM to run their search that ended up with Pace. Fox had just been fired by the Broncos and Acorsi, who knew him from all his years in New York, recommended him as coach. How much Pace wanted to go along with that is a bit up for debate.
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But everybody knows he really didn't hire John Fox. The Bears hired former Giants GM to run their search that ended up with Pace. Fox had just been fired by the Broncos and Acorsi, who knew him from all his years in New York, recommended him as coach. How much Pace wanted to go along with that is a bit up for debate.
Exactly. So maybe Pace will get to hire the next coach if Nagy doesn't work out. Or not.
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But everybody knows he really didn't hire John Fox. The Bears hired former Giants GM to run their search that ended up with Pace. Fox had just been fired by the Broncos and Acorsi, who knew him from all his years in New York, recommended him as coach. How much Pace wanted to go along with that is a bit up for debate.
Yeah, poor ownership 101. Hire a GM, but cut his legs off right away by not trusting him with the coaching hire. The Bears got what they deserved with John Fox.
While Pace has had some nice acquisitions on the defensive-side, his skill player choices leave much to be desired. Kevin White, Mitch, Adam Sheehan, all complete busts. Anthony Miller is trending that way as well. He's another guy that Pace traded-up for and gave up decent draft capital to get.
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He didn't eff up the first. Hell, if they had aforementioned Alex Smith (the Redskins, uninjured version) this would be a damn good team. They whiffed on a QB, and thats damning, but they didn't mess up a rebuild.
Well, I'd day whiffing on a QB at #2 overall is pretty strong evidence of an effed up rebuild. There's not anything more important to the success or failure of a franchise than landing the right quarterback.
But let's delve further.
In 2015, he had a top 10 pick and chose Kevin White, who had 25 catches in the ensuing four years and is now out of the league.
In 2016, he gave up a fourth-round pick to move up two spots and select Leonard Floyd at #9 overall, a pass-rush specialist who's produced an underwhelming 17.5 sacks and one forced fumble in 3.5 seasons.
In 2017 ... Not just Trubisky, but he burned a second-round pick on Adam Shaheen.
2018 ... something's amiss with Roquan Smith, who after a promising rookie season has regressed badly. Second-round picks James Daniels (mediocre) and Anthony Miller (bad) leave a lot to be desired so far.
2019 and 2020 ... no first-round pick.
To his credit, Pace struck gold landing Eddie Jackson in the fourth round and has added other solid players like Cohen, Amos and Howard on day three as well. And he's had some success in free agency, with Hicks and Robinson (but some misses also, i.e. Mike Glennon, Pernell McPhee, Dion Sims, Markus Wheaton).
But ultimately, barring a significant reversal of form this year - hard to imagine given recent performances and the upcoming schedule - Pace's first five years are going to end with one playoff appearance, zero playoff wins, instability at the most important position on the field, and little draft capital or cap space in the near future to improve the situation.
You're good with that?
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Yeah, poor ownership 101. Hire a GM, but cut his legs off right away by not trusting him with the coaching hire. The Bears got what they deserved with John Fox.
While Pace has had some nice acquisitions on the defensive-side, his skill player choices leave much to be desired. Kevin White, Mitch, Adam Sheehan, all complete busts. Anthony Miller is trending that way as well. He's another guy that Pace traded-up for and gave up decent draft capital to get.
I am not a Mitch fan, but it is a bit early for me to call him a “total bust”. Pace went out a got a bunch of retreads at the WR/TE positions and did not improve the offensive line. He gave up Howard for a low draft choice whereas he could have got a 2/3 rounder right now if he waited and didn’t sign Davis. Howard would have been a big piece this season for the Bears and that would have allowed Monty to ease in.
The bigger issue for Mitch is his development and if the weak supporting cast Pace has put forward is causing the regression or is it Mitch...and I think the easy answer is yes the cast around Mitch is very limited. And that is where Pace and Nagy are to blame. The question for this season is if Mitch and Nagy can find a way to grow their way out of this predicament?
Pace has been fleeced on most of his trades/moves on offense. There is no hope there this season from him. Nagy has shown to be in way over his head as a head coach, and gets too cute or gives up the game plan too early. Mitch was way overblown in the draft but can he be a dependable starter? While I am leaning toward guilty, I still have a reasonable doubt.
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Well, I'd day whiffing on a QB at #2 overall is pretty strong evidence of an effed up rebuild. There's not anything more important to the success or failure of a franchise than landing the right quarterback.
But let's delve further.
In 2015, he had a top 10 pick and chose Kevin White, who had 25 catches in the ensuing four years and is now out of the league.
In 2016, he gave up a fourth-round pick to move up two spots and select Leonard Floyd at #9 overall, a pass-rush specialist who's produced an underwhelming 17.5 sacks and one forced fumble in 3.5 seasons.
In 2017 ... Not just Trubisky, but he burned a second-round pick on Adam Shaheen.
2018 ... something's amiss with Roquan Smith, who after a promising rookie season has regressed badly. Second-round picks James Daniels (mediocre) and Anthony Miller (bad) leave a lot to be desired so far.
2019 and 2020 ... no first-round pick.
To his credit, Pace struck gold landing Eddie Jackson in the fourth round and has added other solid players like Cohen, Amos and Howard on day three as well. And he's had some success in free agency, with Hicks and Robinson (but some misses also, i.e. Mike Glennon, Pernell McPhee, Dion Sims, Markus Wheaton).
But ultimately, barring a significant reversal of form this year - hard to imagine given recent performances and the upcoming schedule - Pace's first five years are going to end with one playoff appearance, zero playoff wins, instability at the most important position on the field, and little draft capital or cap space in the near future to improve the situation.
You're good with that?
Kevin White was projected as a top 5 pick when the Bears drafted him. He suffered an injury in his first training camp and never found a way to be truly healthy. Thats a crapty break, no pun intended, but it doesn't mean it was the wrong pick, its unfair 20/20 hindsight.
Floyd has been disappointing. He started brightly, not sure why he's regressed.
Shaheen is a disaster, fully bust worthy.
But I'm not burying Pace for Roquan Smith or Anthony Miller yet. Roquan was very solid last year, and there appears to be some issues off the field this year. Which can be the result of many things. Anthony Miller showed a lot of promise last year, this year? He has a terrible QB who can't hit open receivers. Literally the only productive player catching the ball is Robinson, who has become a safety blanket and more.
Those FA misses? Come on. Mike Glennon was a relatively cheap stop gap starter they were forced into making a move on. McPhee had a great first year and got injured and was worthless for 2 years.
I think you're underestimating how bad that Bears roster was when he took over. And 3 of those first 5 years were with a stubborn, poor fit HC that he didn't get to choose and clearly differed from ideologically. Injuries happen in football. It sucks, but when they aren't another in a successive line for an injury prone player, I have trouble castigating the GM for making the move. He's not been perfect, but hes been a major upgrade, done a lot of things well, and reshaped a bad team. This roster doesn't need a complete teardown and rebuild, which is what it seems like people are saying, which is absurd. Again, with a decent QB, this is a 10 win team easily.
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Kevin White was projected as a top 5 pick when the Bears drafted him. He suffered an injury in his first training camp and never found a way to be truly healthy. Thats a crapty break, no pun intended, but it doesn't mean it was the wrong pick, its unfair 20/20 hindsight.
White was bad and it had nothing to do with his first injury. He was bad when fully healthy. He simply never learned how to run a pro-style route - he never was asked to in college - and had inconsistent hands. He put up numbers in college because he was in a pass-happy offense that allowed him to freelance, and then had a huge combine.
Just because he was overrated in the pre-draft process doesn't mean he wasn't a terrible pick. By that logic, JaMarcus Russell and Ryan Leaf weren't bad picks either.
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Re: "bad picks"
Are they bad if they don't produce in the NFL? Or bad if taken way earlier than the consensus had them?
Was Greg oden a bad pick? Insert other underachieving, yet appropriately ranked and selected pick here.
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Well, Greg Oden definitely had a poor NFL career...although if the NFL had a "Wins Under Replacement" he'd probably have a better number than Tebow.
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If the Bears continue to struggle, it’s not unfathomable that they finish last in the division. If they did indeed finish last, in Pace’s five years on the job, they will have finished last in four of them.
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The bigger issue for Mitch is his development and if the weak supporting cast Pace has put forward is causing the regression or is it Mitch...and I think the easy answer is yes the cast around Mitch is very limited. And that is where Pace and Nagy are to blame. The question for this season is if Mitch and Nagy can find a way to grow their way out of this predicament?
The problem with Mitch is that play after play, people are open and he either completely misses them, or doesn't see them at all. His field vision and feel for the game has been terrible. That has nothing to do with supporting cast, it has more to do with ability and reps.
But it is not improving with reps. He continues to see the field poorly and miss open receivers. He could grow out of it, but I don't think he'll be around long enough to be given a chance.
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Re: "bad picks"
Are they bad if they don't produce in the NFL? Or bad if taken way earlier than the consensus had them?
Was Greg oden a bad pick? Insert other underachieving, yet appropriately ranked and selected pick here.
Oden was a risk/reward pick. The Blazers knew he had bad knees and felt that with proper treatment/surgery, he would be OK. It ended up not working out. Embiid falls into this category, too. So far, his situation has been A-OK, even though the Sixers didn't have his services for a long while after that draft.
Sam Bowie was a bad pick. Not only were there injury concerns, but lots and lots of talent evaluators were quite certain that Jordan would be the far superior pro. They obviously didn't know that Jordan would be the best player ever, but there was little doubt he'd be a star. The same could not be said of Bowie. But the Blazers already had Drexler and they felt they had to get a big man.
In the case of the Leafs, Klinglers, Russells, etc, we often don't know if they're "bad" picks until a year or three into their careers. I will tell you that more than a few Panthers fans didn't want the team to draft Newton because they were worried he'd be the next JaMarcus Russell or Vince Young.
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Oden was a risk/reward pick. The Blazers knew he had bad knees and felt that with proper treatment/surgery, he would be OK. It ended up not working out. Embiid falls into this category, too. So far, his situation has been A-OK, even though the Sixers didn't have his services for a long while after that draft.
Sam Bowie was a bad pick. Not only were there injury concerns, but lots and lots of talent evaluators were quite certain that Jordan would be the far superior pro. They obviously didn't know that Jordan would be the best player ever, but there was little doubt he'd be a star. The same could not be said of Bowie. But the Blazers already had Drexler and they felt they had to get a big man.
Bobby Knight was a friend of the Blazers GM at the time and was telling him they'd be nuts not to draft Jordan. When that GM told Knight that they already had a guard in Drexler, Knight apparently said they could play them at the same time. (Knight knew Jordan well from coaching him in the 1984 olympics.)
I honestly think the Blazers were the only team that didn't have Jordan number one or two in that draft. (Behind Hakeem)
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I am not a Mitch fan, but it is a bit early for me to call him a “total bust”. Pace went out a got a bunch of retreads at the WR/TE positions and did not improve the offensive line. He gave up Howard for a low draft choice whereas he could have got a 2/3 rounder right now if he waited and didn’t sign Davis. Howard would have been a big piece this season for the Bears and that would have allowed Monty to ease in.
The bigger issue for Mitch is his development and if the weak supporting cast Pace has put forward is causing the regression or is it Mitch...and I think the easy answer is yes the cast around Mitch is very limited. And that is where Pace and Nagy are to blame. The question for this season is if Mitch and Nagy can find a way to grow their way out of this predicament?
Pace has been fleeced on most of his trades/moves on offense. There is no hope there this season from him. Nagy has shown to be in way over his head as a head coach, and gets too cute or gives up the game plan too early. Mitch was way overblown in the draft but can he be a dependable starter? While I am leaning toward guilty, I still have a reasonable doubt.
Stats tell the tale.
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Re: "bad picks"
Are they bad if they don't produce in the NFL? Or bad if taken way earlier than the consensus had them?
Was Greg oden a bad pick? Insert other underachieving, yet appropriately ranked and selected pick here.
This is what I was trying to say. Pick was appropriate. NFL success has not translated.
https://twitter.com/WhiskeyRanger29/status/1187228485888155649?s=20
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Bobby Knight was a friend of the Blazers GM at the time and was telling him they'd be nuts not to draft Jordan. When that GM told Knight that they already had a guard in Drexler, Knight apparently said they could play them at the same time. (Knight knew Jordan well from coaching him in the 1984 olympics.)
I honestly think the Blazers were the only team that didn't have Jordan number one or two in that draft. (Behind Hakeem)
I heard similar versions of this exact same thing from several people I trust.
The Blazers did what a lot of stupid teams do, they reached for position. They ended up passing on arguably the greatest basketball player ever. It would have been a bad pick even had Bowie not gotten hurt. The fact that he already had injury situations made it one of the worst picks ever. They got what they deserved.
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These Vikings jerseys are hideous.
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These Vikings jerseys are hideous.
Yeah they are. And the white with maroon-ish pants look really good for the Skins.
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Yeah they are. And the white with maroon-ish pants look really good for the Skins.
If they'd chance that stupid logo (and name) , the Skins color scheme is still classic. I'm partial to their 'RadioShack' throwbacks of yesteryear. Wish the NFL would get rid of the one shell rule for unis like this.
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcS1IK7i0Haq9Y-CTCPmaXTrtuL3C4cOUHNlRh3O2iRju6jaUfG4)
As for the Vikes, their purple of choice is stupid, but I thought the yellow lettering was much better than white, and somehow more of a bad thing with the purple made it better?
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Bears season ticket holder here, weighing in.
Trubisky sure as heck does not look like the answer this year. Tends to look more like Cade or Sexy Rexy -- good college quarterback who lacked whatever it takes to succeed in the NFL. Trubisky has the rest of the season to turn it around. His future and that of "offensive genius" Matt Nagy depend on it.
I'm not optimistic!
Big problem the Bears have is finding a replacement. No first round draft choice this year. They have a defense that is built to win NOW and have strong needs on the offensive line. So quarterback help is likely until at least 2021, unless they trade for someone like Mariota, Newton or somehow find a way to pry Bridgewater from New Orleans (good luck).
Last time the Bears traded for what they thought was a Number 1 quarterback, we ended up with Kordell Stewart.
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Bears season ticket holder here, weighing in.
Trubisky sure as heck does not look like the answer this year. Tends to look more like Cade or Sexy Rexy -- good college quarterback who lacked whatever it takes to succeed in the NFL. Trubisky has the rest of the season to turn it around. His future and that of "offensive genius" Matt Nagy depend on it.
I'm not optimistic!
Big problem the Bears have is finding a replacement. No first round draft choice this year. They have a defense that is built to win NOW and have strong needs on the offensive line. So quarterback help is likely until at least 2021, unless they trade for someone like Mariota, Newton or somehow find a way to pry Bridgewater from New Orleans (good luck).
Last time the Bears traded for what they thought was a Number 1 quarterback, we ended up with Kordell Stewart.
Was he?
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Was he?
Benefit of the doubt.
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Last time the Bears traded for what they thought was a Number 1 quarterback, we ended up with Kordell Stewart.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/2913445646/fc7c1a4abb77c0cfb5822f3af7b51e08.jpeg)
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If they'd chance that stupid logo (and name) , the Skins color scheme is still classic. I'm partial to their 'RadioShack' throwbacks of yesteryear. Wish the NFL would get rid of the one shell rule for unis like this.
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcS1IK7i0Haq9Y-CTCPmaXTrtuL3C4cOUHNlRh3O2iRju6jaUfG4)
As for the Vikes, their purple of choice is stupid, but I thought the yellow lettering was much better than white, and somehow more of a bad thing with the purple made it better?
Since the vast majority of Native Americans don’t want the name changed, why change it?
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Mariota, Rivers, Brady, Bridgewater (no way NO is going to be able to afford Teddy and Drew).
My personal choice (of current NFL QBs) would be Foles. Assuming Jax is happy with Minshew going forward. Foles is talented and has experience in a Reid offense.
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Benefit of the doubt.
Not needed. He was a decent college QB with intriguing physical abilities. He was on an 8-5 team that put up gaudy numbers cause of Fedora's system. He certainly wasn't drafted because of his college performance.
Id love Bridgewater (unlikely), doubt Jax parts with Foles after just a season when Minshew has been fine but not other worldly. Mariota intrigues me cause I think Tennessee was never a good situation or fit, but I feel like he may have the same issues Trubisky does.
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There’s only one QB out there who could probably be available (unless Brady really opts out after this year and is genuine about being an UFA.
It would be incredibly complicated to trade for him, it’d be more akin to an NBA trade due to his cap number, but Matt Ryan is the guy.
Don’t get me wrong, his cap number is enormous next year, the Bears would have to send something like Mitch (for cap purposes), Roquan Smith, and their 2021 #1 to get Ryan. They then would have to restructure Mack, let Floyd walk, and cut Long, they’ll probably do all those things anyway, but it would take some creativity to make happen.
I think the Falcons would trade Ryan in a heartbeat if they could. The complexity of the cap ramifications will prevent it though.
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Cam Newton might be available. Seriously.
If the Panthers continue doing well without him, he probably will not get his starting job back even if healthy. He'll officially be Wally Pipped by Kyle Allen. The Panthers could cut him after this season and save nearly $20 million off the salary cap.
He turned 30 in May.
He'd be a gamble for a team, obviously, but he presumably would be relatively healthy after taking off most of this season.
Not sure Chicago would be the best landing spot for him, but who knows?
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Bears better without Cam....
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Bears better without Cam....
Made me chuckle.
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Cam Newton might be available. Seriously.
If the Panthers continue doing well without him, he probably will not get his starting job back even if healthy. He'll officially be Wally Pipped by Kyle Allen. The Panthers could cut him after this season and save nearly $20 million off the salary cap.
He turned 30 in May.
He'd be a gamble for a team, obviously, but he presumably would be relatively healthy after taking off most of this season.
Not sure Chicago would be the best landing spot for him, but who knows?
I disagree, Mike (although you have watched Allen more than I have and probably are better informed). I don't think Allen would be any better than Trubisky.
Allen has McCaffrey. Trubisky has, I don't know, maybe some guys that averages 2 yards a carry and have to be switched out depending on whether a pass or run is called.
I've made clear that I have never been a fan of Cam, but I still think he is way, way better than Allen.
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I disagree, Mike (although you have watched Allen more than I have and probably are better informed). I don't think Allen would be any better than Trubisky.
Allen has McCaffrey. Trubisky has, I don't know, maybe some guys that averages 2 yards a carry and have to be switched out depending on whether a pass or run is called.
I've made clear that I have never been a fan of Cam, but I still think he is way, way better than Cam.
I have been a big fan of Cam; he arrived in Charlotte less than a year after I did, and I have very much enjoyed watching him play. He took the Panthers to the Super Bowl, did things no other QB has, and also has matured into a community leader.
And I was very skeptical of Allen because there just aren't many success stories of QBs with similar background. But Allen is 4-0 this season, with 2 very good games, 1 OK game and 1 where he was pretty bad but still made a couple of huge plays. He hasn't thrown a single interception, though he has lost a bunch of fumbles because he has not yet developed a good sense of where defenders are when he's in the pocket.
Whether Allen actually is "better" than Newton might have little to do with anything, and my opinion of the two has absolutely nothing to do with anything. It's about $$$.
After this season, Newton will have 1 year left on his contract at $21M plus. The Panthers will have to make this choice: Do we pay a guy who has a lot of miles on him, who has been injured in each of the last 4 seasons and who might never again be as good as he was back in 2015? Or do we save $19M+ off the salary cap and go with the QB who, despite having little experience, led us to a winning season (if that indeed is what happens)?
If Allen's success continues and I were Panthers GM/owner, I'd have to say, "Thanks Cam, it's been great, but business is business," and roll the dice with the much less-expensive QB.
Don't get my pragmatism confused with me suddenly "disliking" Newton. That's life in the NFL; teams have to make difficult decisions like this all the time. The Panthers did similar when they cut loose Steve Smith back in 2013.
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I have been a big fan of Cam; he arrived in Charlotte less than a year after I did, and I have very much enjoyed watching him play. He took the Panthers to the Super Bowl, did things no other QB has, and also has matured into a community leader.
And I was very skeptical of Allen because there just aren't many success stories of QBs with similar background. But Allen is 4-0 this season, with 2 very good games, 1 OK game and 1 where he was pretty bad but still made a couple of huge plays. He hasn't thrown a single interception, though he has lost a bunch of fumbles because he has not yet developed a good sense of where defenders are when he's in the pocket.
Whether Allen actually is "better" than Newton might have little to do with anything, and my opinion of the two has absolutely nothing to do with anything. It's about $$$.
After this season, Newton will have 1 year left on his contract at $21M plus. The Panthers will have to make this choice: Do we pay a guy who has a lot of miles on him, who has been injured in each of the last 4 seasons and who might never again be as good as he was back in 2015? Or do we save $19M+ off the salary cap and go with the QB who, despite having little experience, led us to a winning season (if that indeed is what happens)?
If Allen's success continues and I were Panthers GM/owner, I'd have to say, "Thanks Cam, it's been great, but business is business," and roll the dice with the much less-expensive QB.
Don't get my pragmatism confused with me suddenly "disliking" Newton. That's life in the NFL; teams have to make difficult decisions like this all the time. The Panthers did similar when they cut loose Steve Smith back in 2013.
I was just speaking in terms of talent.
I agree with you 100% on the decision. I'm guessing it would take 4 years / $125M to keep Cam. That's a lot of beans to spend elsewhere if they feel Allen will be at least an adequate QB in the future.
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I was just speaking in terms of talent.
I agree with you 100% on the decision. I'm guessing it would take 4 years / $125M to keep Cam. That's a lot of beans to spend elsewhere if they feel Allen will be at least an adequate QB in the future.
Yep, that's the thing. If the Panthers don't part ways with Cam, and he gets healthy again, he'd be in for a huge payday. The way things stand now, though, I don't see anybody paying him anywhere near that kind of money.
I hope he gets healthy. Then we'll see what happens. Meanwhile, I've enjoyed being very pleasantly surprised by the play of the next Kurt Warner! Allen will get a good test Sunday at San Fran -- a very good defensive team, and one playing at home.
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Doink!
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That last drive of the half is the perfect Trubisky/Nagy drive. Summarizes them perfectly.
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That last drive of the half is the perfect Trubisky/Nagy drive. Summarizes them perfectly.
And that summary is?
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I disagree, Mike (although you have watched Allen more than I have and probably are better informed). I don't think Allen would be any better than Trubisky.
Allen has McCaffrey. Trubisky has, I don't know, maybe some guys that averages 2 yards a carry and have to be switched out depending on whether a pass or run is called.
I've made clear that I have never been a fan of Cam, but I still think he is way, way better than Allen.
This morning the NFL talking heads were saying as a pure passer, Allen is better and it is not close. In terms of all around better athlete, it is Cam, but the team is built more as a passing team now with McCaffrey providing the running. As several said this a.m., Allen may be better for this team right now the way it is constructed.
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And that summary is?
Awful clock management, disjointed playcalling, bad decisions, poor reads.
That was comically bad.
Bears have 9 plays from inside Chargers 10 yard line today. They have gained zero yards on those 9 plays. Zero.
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Awful clock management, disjointed playcalling, bad decisions, poor reads.
That was comically bad.
Bears have 9 plays from inside Chargers 10 yard line today. They have gained zero yards on those 9 plays. Zero.
You were on this early, Dish.
The guy is a brutal coach.
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My God. The season is over. But the organization has to move on from Mitch
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My God. The season is over. But the organization has to move on from Mitch
It’s amazing how much he has regressed. His confidence, at the moment, is shattered
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Alas, the Chargers are a tonic for all your football problems
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‘Spain me.
Why was SD calling TOS?
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I got nothing.
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Who’s in over their head more?
Nagy or Kitchens?
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Who’s in over their head more?
Nagy or Kitchens?
Kitchens, I think. Penalties and turnovers are bad in Cleveland. Turnovers can be fluky but Cleveland lacks discipline
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This will never happen, but if I were the Bears GM, I’d call Indy tonight and offer Mack for their 2020 first, and their two 2020 second round picks (their own and Washington’s).
This isn’t an indictment on Mack, but the gamble they took didn’t hit. Rather than wind up in long term purgatory with Mack eating up cap space as you try to find yet another QB, get out now. At the time of the trade, I said if Mitch sucks, the impact of Mack doesn’t mean much.
They would never do it.
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This will never happen, but if I were the Bears GM, I’d call Indy tonight and offer Mack for their 2020 first, and their two 2020 second round picks (their own and Washington’s).
This isn’t an indictment on Mack, but the gamble they took didn’t hit. Rather than wind up in long term purgatory with Mack eating up cap space as you try to find yet another QB, get out now. At the time of the trade, I said if Mitch sucks, the impact of Mack doesn’t mean much.
They would never do it.
The day you are offering picks for players you have already lost.
You can't dig yourself out of this hole.
ask the team from Washington DC.
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Was one of the 61,500 suckers at Soldier Field today.
It was a great day to be outside. The fighter flyover was nice. It was a perfect fall day.
Then a really bad football game broke out. The Bears need to go back to Ground Zero. Trubisky isn't working. At least not with Nagy, a so called "offensive genius." Trubisky at times showed flashes of greatness and at times led us to wonder whether there was an emotional breakdown in grade school football. Four times the team was inside the 5. Four field goals. You don't win that way.
The amazing thing is Trubisky showed enough to almost pull it out. But the coach either didn't trust him or his offense. Ten yards closer and that last field goal was an automatic
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I was busy watching Kyle Allen turn back into a pumpkin and look like a guy who is ready to turn the Panthers back over to Newton if Cam is healthy.
So I didn't see until later that Nagy opted to kick a 41-yard FG on second down with 40-some seconds left on the clock rather than trying to get closer -- even though the kicker had already missed from 33.
That's some horrific coaching, and it doesn't bode well for a team that suddenly looks like it has major, major holes to fill.
As for my Panthers ... I'm certainly not saying the Panthers' 475 to negative-11 loss at San Fran was Allen's "fault." They were outplayed in every category. He's simply not better than Newton if Cam's legs and shoulder are sound.
From the Charlotte Observer:
Quarterback Kyle Allen, who had led the Panthers to a 4-0 record while filling in for Newton, revealed his warts in full. After going 159 attempts without throwing an interception, Allen threw a pass far behind a crossing Curtis Samuel and almost straight to cornerback Emmanuel Moseley early in the second quarter. That set San Francisco up from the Carolina 27-yard line, leading to two 49ers runs for a combined 17 yards and then Coleman’s second touchdown of the afternoon on a 10-yard reception.
But once the interception dam cracked, it burst. Allen only made it another 20 attempts before his second interception of the day, which went right to a stationary Richard Sherman. And after another 49ers score — that time to make it 41-13 — Allen threw a third interception his very next attempt.
Mrs. 82 and I are going to next Sunday's game. We're hoping Cam is ready to roll.
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Kyle Allen and his team lost to 7-0 San Francisco 49ers. He threw his first 3 interceptions of the year. Yup, against that defense the warts will come out.
Allen led his team with a 88.5 passer rating filling in, including a win over the Tampa Bay Bucs that Cam's team lost to when he was at the helm.
Cam Newton has a 71.0 passer rating this year, including a loss to the 2-5 Tampa Bay Bucs. What's strange is Cam's warts against no team of anywhere close to the level of the 49ers.
Good job Allen. You did what you were supposed to do. Now take your clipboard and suck it up, the king is returning and hopefully will get his first win at the helm in a year's time.
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Kyle Allen and his team lost to 7-0 San Francisco 49ers. He threw his first 3 interceptions of the year. Yup, against that defense the warts will come out.
Allen led his team with a 88.5 passer rating filling in, including a win over the Tampa Bay Bucs that Cam's team lost to when he was at the helm.
Cam Newton has a 71.0 passer rating this year, including a loss to the 2-5 Tampa Bay Bucs. What's strange is Cam's warts against no team of anywhere close to the level of the 49ers.
Good job Allen. You did what you were supposed to do. Now take your clipboard and suck it up, the king is returning and hopefully will get his first win at the helm in a year's time.
Ignoring the irritant who hasn't seen 3 minutes of Panthers football.
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Andy Reid is making Mike Petrine look like a fool.
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Andy Reid is making Mike Petrine look like a fool.
Out coached on both sides of the ball. Can’t cover. Can’t tackle.
KC runs the same thing. Over and over. No GB adjustments.
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238 yards in a half to Matt Moore led team. Brutal.
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Mahomes is clearly a system QB
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That last drive of the half is the perfect Trubisky/Nagy drive. Summarizes them perfectly.
Had my doubts about this guy here last year when they dropped the Packers game at home. Nagy’s strategies are unexplainable. Not particularly vested with Bears, but hard not to take notice of his decisions.
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Mahomes is clearly a system QB
Lol.
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I think it’s more about the weapons each team has. KC fears absolutely no receiving options the Packers have with Davante out, nor should they. They can pin their ears back and blitz all night knowing nobody the Packers have can beat them 1 on 1. The opposite is true of the Chiefs. 3 guys who can beat defenders with speed spread over the field and then Kelce over the middle.
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I think it’s more about the weapons each team has. KC fears absolutely no receiving options the Packers have with Davante our, not should they. They can pin their ears back and blitz all night knowing nobody the Packers have can beat them 1 on 1. The opposite is true of the Chiefs. 3 guys who can beat defenders with speed spread over the field and then Kelce over the middle.
This. And if they decide to drop back into coverage there is no one on GB that can really get themselves open.
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That TD throw and catch was ridiculous. That was awesome, what an eff’n throw by Rodgers.
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Is there nothing else to show that they need to show shots of Mahomes every other play?
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No adjustments defensively. Matt Moore carves them up again. Really poorly coached by Pettine.
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This. And if they decide to drop back into coverage there is no one on GB that can really get themselves open.
They’re not facing Mahomes. Pettine has coached scared the entire game. Maybe just once try to disrupt the QBs timing. Short passes into soft coverage with no pass rush will lose this game.
Andy is showing why he is a top 3 coach.
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Reid punting there was an awful decision.
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I knew the chiefs wouldn’t see the ball again. Did Reid not know the injury situation of his defense?
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They’re not facing Mahomes. Pettine has coached scared the entire game. Maybe just once try to disrupt the QBs timing. Short passes into soft coverage with no pass rush will lose this game.
Andy is showing why he is a top 3 coach.
Andy got out-coached in the 2nd half, by a first year coach.
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A virtually perfect 2nd half for the offense.
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Is there nothing else to show that they need to show shots of Mahomes every other play?
The was insane, wasn't it?
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Reid punting there was an awful decision.
Yes.
And, Lefleur had a great 2nd half.
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What a joy to see a 2019 offense instead of a 2009 offense.
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I think it’s more about the weapons each team has. KC fears absolutely no receiving options the Packers have with Davante out, nor should they.
Guess they should have feared that 33 fellow.
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Guess they should have feared that 33 fellow.
I texted my kid right before the 2 minute, 3rd down play. 33 iso Bob. ;D
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Kitchens, I think. Penalties and turnovers are bad in Cleveland. Turnovers can be fluky but Cleveland lacks discipline
Tony Romo openly laughing at Kitchens and that intentional false start on 4th and 11 was entertaining television. Again, why you would hire that guy based mostly on Baker Mayfield liking him, is beyond me. And Dorsey is a good GM too.
As a friend of mine who is a Browns fan said, "It's like buying a race car and hiring Mr. Magoo to drive it."
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What a joy to see a 2019 offense instead of a 2009 offense.
I have been a Mccarthy fan for most of his duration (The last two years proved it was time), but my God: 2019 Aaron Jones is the most damning indictment of Mccarthy I can think of.
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Tony Romo openly laughing at Kitchens and that intentional false start on 4th and 11 was entertaining television. Again, why you would hire that guy based mostly on Baker Mayfield liking him, is beyond me. And Dorsey is a good GM too.
As a friend of mine who is a Browns fan said, "It's like buying a race car and hiring Mr. Magoo to drive it."
I think it was more the offense looked great when they turned it around the last 8 games, and they wanted continuity. That being said, Dorsey is better than that. I was shocked when they hired him, and he's not disappointed my skepticism.
Then a really bad football game broke out. The Bears need to go back to Ground Zero. Trubisky isn't working. At least not with Nagy, a so called "offensive genius." Trubisky at times showed flashes of greatness and at times led us to wonder whether there was an emotional breakdown in grade school football. Four times the team was inside the 5. Four field goals. You don't win that way.
The amazing thing is Trubisky showed enough to almost pull it out. But the coach either didn't trust him or his offense. Ten yards closer and that last field goal was an automatic
I don't mean to pick on you, cause you're certainly not the only one, but there is this narrative of "Trubisky did what he needed to do to get the win at the end". Which is awful, because the Chargers aren't in this game without Trubisky being horrific and turning the ball over inexplicably. This was one of the most frustrating and "this dude doesnt have it" games of his career.
2 plays stood out to me, besides the obvious.
1) Chargers jump offsides, blatantly, clearly a free play, Mitch panicks at throws to a dump off in the flat that is incomplete because (i think Montgomery) isn't even expecting the ball cause why not try a vertical route when there is already a defensive flag on the field. Speaks to his pocket presence or lack thereof
2) For all his faults, he has been a great runner his whole career. He had a wide open path to sprint to the end zone at one point that he ignored and stayed to dance in the pocket and throw incomplete.
Then Nagy, sheesh. Horrific game management and planning. If that end of game scenario wasn't bad enough, his complete asinine response to questions about it in the press conference, which also showed no confidence in himself or his offense, was kind of the final straw for me. Don't really know where they go from here, but this team isn't worth being invested in until they have a new QB and HC.
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I don't mean to pick on you, cause you're certainly not the only one, but there is this narrative of "Trubisky did what he needed to do to get the win at the end". Which is awful, because the Chargers aren't in this game without Trubisky being horrific and turning the ball over inexplicably.
The same narrative was being said about Tebow during his one season as Denver's starter. He was putrid, but he'd make a play or two to help win a close game, and it was, "Maybe Tebow struggles some, but he comes through in the clutch." Of course, if he wasn't one of the worst starting NFL QBs of this decade, the Broncos wouldn't have had to come from behind so often.
Elway confirmed that by dumping Tebow at his first opportunity after that season, and the Jets found out quickly that he was a sham.
Just goes to show how difficult it is to be a pro QB, because Tebow obviously was a heck of a college player.
Trubisky is more skilled than Tebow ... but maybe not much more. It will be interesting to see where his story goes from here.
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The same narrative was being said about Tebow during his one season as Denver's starter. He was putrid, but he'd make a play or two to help win a close game, and it was, "Maybe Tebow struggles some, but he comes through in the clutch." Of course, if he wasn't one of the worst starting NFL QBs of this decade, the Broncos wouldn't have had to come from behind so often.
Elway confirmed that by dumping Tebow at his first opportunity after that season, and the Jets found out quickly that he was a sham.
Just goes to show how difficult it is to be a pro QB, because Tebow obviously was a heck of a college player.
Trubisky is more skilled than Tebow ... but maybe not much more. It will be interesting to see where his story goes from here.
I'm not fan of Tebow and I thought the narratives behind him were always so tired. "He has a greater will to win!" "He will be a successful QB cause he wants it so bad and will outwork people" Which was hilarious to me cause his greatest "intangibles" are something that basically everyone has to be an NFL starter. That being said, I do think Tebow was a pretty good football mind, he knew how to perform in crunch time within his abilities, and he was confident. Unfortunately, I don't think Trubisky is any of those things. He has a ton of physical ability (way more than Tebow for the position), but when you combine what a project he is physically/QB technique/tools he is with what a headcase he is, and add in a coach who has no confidence in him or his offense. He's toast
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I don't know if there is a worse opponent for the Bears than the Eagles this coming Sunday. Don't get me wrong, the Niners/Pack/Saints/Pats would truck the Bears right now, but considering how their season ended last year, how their game ended yesterday, going to a Philly team that might be finding it's stride, I have a feeling the Bears are going to get thrashed on Sunday afternoon. Just looking at this on the surface, I see really bad things coming this week ahead.
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I'm not fan of Tebow and I thought the narratives behind him were always so tired. "He has a greater will to win!" "He will be a successful QB cause he wants it so bad and will outwork people" Which was hilarious to me cause his greatest "intangibles" are something that basically everyone has to be an NFL starter. That being said, I do think Tebow was a pretty good football mind, he knew how to perform in crunch time within his abilities, and he was confident. Unfortunately, I don't think Trubisky is any of those things. He has a ton of physical ability (way more than Tebow for the position), but when you combine what a project he is physically/QB technique/tools he is with what a headcase he is, and add in a coach who has no confidence in him or his offense. He's toast
Reasonable take. Tebow simply wasn't good enough. Trubisky appears to have ability -- obviously, or the Bears wouldn't have traded up to draft him -- so it must be frustrating to watch him suck.
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Trubisky is at his best playing on pure physical ability and instinct (end of game drives, for example). But my God, when he has to think through anything, he's putrid.
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I have an observation about two organizations heading in different directions. One was afraid to hand the ball off to get a bit closer for their kicker and wasted 40+ seconds rather than run an offense, literally any offense. The other took the ball backed up at the 2 yard line and executed an absolutely perfect 4 minute drill sealing the game by putting the ball in the best player's hand and asking him to make a play with an emerging star on the last play that mattered. Both were textbook. All that one really needs to know.
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I have an observation about two organizations heading in different directions. One was afraid to hand the ball off to get a bit closer for their kicker and wasted 40+ seconds rather than run an offense, literally any offense. The other took the ball backed up at the 2 yard line and executed an absolutely perfect 4 minute drill sealing the game by putting the ball in the best player's hand and asking him to make a play with an emerging star on the last play that mattered. Both were textbook. All that one really needs to know.
I'm not going to argue that the Packers look good and the Bears...don't. But one team has a guarenteed HOF, argument for top talent to ever play the position under center. And the other has an unproven shaky starter who has a knack for terrible decision making. Hell, Aaron Jones is in his second season as a feature back. The Bears were handing it off to someone who broke 100 yards for the first time that afternoon. I'm not excusing Nagy being a spineless coach devoid of ideas right now, but its hardly equal scenarios. This wasn't "I'll take your 11 and beat you with them"
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I'm not going to argue that the Packers look good and the Bears...don't. But one team has a guarenteed HOF, argument for top talent to ever play the position under center. And the other has an unproven shaky starter who has a knack for terrible decision making. Hell, Aaron Jones is in his second season as a feature back. The Bears were handing it off to someone who broke 100 yards for the first time that afternoon. I'm not excusing Nagy being a spineless coach devoid of ideas right now, but its hardly equal scenarios. This wasn't "I'll take your 11 and beat you with them"
As my kids remind me often..... 'The Bears Still Suck!' ;D
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I don't know if there is a worse opponent for the Bears than the Eagles this coming Sunday. Don't get me wrong, the Niners/Pack/Saints/Pats would truck the Bears right now, but considering how their season ended last year, how their game ended yesterday, going to a Philly team that might be finding it's stride, I have a feeling the Bears are going to get thrashed on Sunday afternoon. Just looking at this on the surface, I see really bad things coming this week ahead.
I actually think the Bears win this one. I think they have a come to Jesus meeting and take the revenge on Philly.
Now, I am historically terrible at predictions, so take it for what it's worth (worth less than a grain free hamburger bun).
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I'm not going to argue that the Packers look good and the Bears...don't. But one team has a guarenteed HOF, argument for top talent to ever play the position under center. And the other has an unproven shaky starter who has a knack for terrible decision making.
Might I remind you that the Green Bay Packers saw Aaron Rodgers slip to 22nd in the draft and snapped him up so quick no one knew what hit the NFL world, even though they had an HOFer on the roster in Brett Favre. The Packers did the PACKER thing (probably from living through the years of Lynn Dickey and John Hadl).
By contrast, the Bears had a choice of three quarterbacks -- Patrick Mahomes, who may well end up being a first round HOFer, DeShawn Watson, who is showing himself to be a very good quarterback, and Trubisky. The Bears did the BEAR thing and drafted the most questionable of the three.
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Might I remind you that the Green Bay Packers saw Aaron Rodgers slip to 22nd in the draft and snapped him up so quick no one knew what hit the NFL world, even though they had an HOFer on the roster in Brett Favre. The Packers did the PACKER thing (probably from living through the years of Lynn Dickey and John Hadl).
By contrast, the Bears had a choice of three quarterbacks -- Patrick Mahomes, who may well end up being a first round HOFer, DeShawn Watson, who is showing himself to be a very good quarterback, and Trubisky. The Bears did the BEAR thing and drafted the most questionable of the three.
This is ridiculous. The Packers got extremely lucky that Rodgers fell. I don't think they had any intention of drafting him and never dreamed it would be available then. It's not as though they drafted up to get him either.
The Bears join a long list of teams that guessed wrong on a quarterback.
It has nothing to do with being a Packer thing or a Bear thing.
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He's no Andre Ware, Joey Harrington, Terry Fair, Aaron Gibson, Charles Rogers, Kevin Jones, Mike Williams, Ernie Sims, Gosder Cherilus, Jahvid Best, Nick Fairley, Laken Tomlinson, (hint: all first round picks by the Lions) but then again, there is a reason the Lions have won one playoff game in my lifetime.
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This is ridiculous. The Packers got extremely lucky that Rodgers fell. I don't think they had any intention of drafting him and never dreamed it would be available then. It's not as though they drafted up to get him either.
The Bears join a long list of teams that guessed wrong on a quarterback.
It has nothing to do with being a Packer thing or a Bear thing.
I don't know about Packer things or Bear things, either. What I do know is that even though they had a HoF QB who was still playing at a high level, the Packers resisted the urge to "draft for need" and they grabbed a QB, who just so happens to be destined for the HoF. The move actually was a little controversial at the time.
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This is ridiculous. The Packers got extremely lucky that Rodgers fell. I don't think they had any intention of drafting him and never dreamed it would be available then. It's not as though they drafted up to get him either.
The Bears join a long list of teams that guessed wrong on a quarterback.
It has nothing to do with being a Packer thing or a Bear thing.
Exactly. “The Packer thing”...which at the time had netted the exact same number of titles since Lombardi left as those incompetent Bears.
It was a bit controversial as Mike mentioned, but it was still getting a QB many thought could go #1, at 22. Not like finding Wilson in the 3rd or Brady in the 6th.
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Exactly. “The Packer thing”...which at the time had netted the exact same number of titles since Lombardi left as those incompetent Bears.
It was a bit controversial as Mike mentioned, but it was still getting a QB many thought could go #1, at 22. Not like finding Wilson in the 3rd or Brady in the 6th.
Packers have one more than the Bears since that time.
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Kyle Allen to start again this Sunday vs. Titans, as Rivera says Cam is still rehabbing. As much as my wife and I would like to see No. 1 back, it's the right decision if he's not physically ready. Allen was horrendous against San Fran, but he was hardly the team's only problem. They were soundly whipped in every single phase of the game. Need to play much, much better.
And on a related note ...
Panthers-Packers game on Nov. 10 has been "flexed" to a 4:25 ET/3:25 CT kickoff so it can be Fox's premier game. If the Panthers play anywhere near as poorly as they did at San Fran, the NFL/Fox might regret this decision. But being an optimist I'm looking for a big turnaround for this week's home game vs. Tennessee and then a good performance against AR & Co. in GB.
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Kyle Allen to start again this Sunday vs. Titans, as Rivera says Cam is still rehabbing. As much as my wife and I would like to see No. 1 back, it's the right decision if he's not physically ready. Allen was horrendous against San Fran, but he was hardly the team's only problem. They were soundly whipped in every single phase of the game. Need to play much, much better.
And on a related note ...
Panthers-Packers game on Nov. 10 has been "flexed" to a 4:25 ET/3:25 CT kickoff so it can be Fox's premier game. If the Panthers play anywhere near as poorly as they did at San Fran, the NFL/Fox might regret this decision. But being an optimist I'm looking for a big turnaround for this week's home game vs. Tennessee and then a good performance against AR & Co. in GB.
They had to flex something into that late slot since the Rams at Steelers game isn't going to be much of one. And the other choices weren't much better.
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They had to flex something into that late slot since the Rams at Steelers game isn't going to be much of one. And the other choices weren't much better.
Yep.
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Pack also drafted Rich (sucks) Campbell back in the day, hey?
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Seems like it could be a pretty wild trade deadline.
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Pack also drafted Rich (sucks) Campbell back in the day, hey?
And Jerry Tagge
And David Whitehurst
And the Magic Man
And Randy Wright (yuck, yuck, yuck)
In fact, Aaron Rodgers was the first great quarterback they drafted since Bart Starr in 1956.
As to the criticism of Packer/Bear, the Packers at least knew something special when it hit them in the nose. The Bears had a choice of three quarterbacks and they picked the one with the weakest resume up to that time.
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And Jerry Tagge
And David Whitehurst
And the Magic Man
And Randy Wright (yuck, yuck, yuck)
In fact, Aaron Rodgers was the first great quarterback they drafted since Bart Starr in 1956.
As to the criticism of Packer/Bear, the Packers at least knew something special when it hit them in the nose. The Bears had a choice of three quarterbacks and they picked the one with the weakest resume up to that time.
Tagge was the 11th pick overall and threw a grand total of 3 TDs (and 17 interceptions) in the NFL. Ouch.
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Tagge was the 11th pick overall and threw a grand total of 3 TDs (and 17 interceptions) in the NFL. Ouch.
And drafted primarily because he was a Green Bay native.
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Trade dudline.
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Seems like it could be a pretty wild trade deadline.
It was not wild.
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Trade dudline.
This is the case most years. Much anticipation and then ... less than meh.
Baseball, basketball and hockey trading deadlines are a lot more fun!
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Itll never be the other leagues, but there was more traffic this year than most.
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Pack also drafted Rich (sucks) Campbell back in the day, hey?
In his autobiography, Bart Starr tells the story of how his west coast scout warned everyone Campbell didn’t have an NFL arm. Starr wanted Ronnie Lott. Welp
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In his autobiography, Bart Starr tells the story of how his west coast scout warned everyone Campbell didn’t have an NFL arm. Starr wanted Ronnie Lott. Welp
And Hue Jackson says he wanted Carson Wentz, Deshaun Watson and Patrick Mahomes.
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And Jerry Tagge
And David Whitehurst
And the Magic Man
And Randy Wright (yuck, yuck, yuck)
In fact, Aaron Rodgers was the first great quarterback they drafted since Bart Starr in 1956.
As to the criticism of Packer/Bear, the Packers at least knew something special when it hit them in the nose. The Bears had a choice of three quarterbacks and they picked the one with the weakest resume up to that time.
The low point of my Packer fandom was when Randy Wright fainted under center against the Vikings in what I remember being about a 61-7 thrashing.
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SKOL
Mike Zimmer “very, very ticked off” about Jayron Kearse arrestThe Vikings released a statement saying they were aware of safety Jayron Kearse (https://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/29478/)‘s arrest early on Sunday morning and head coach Mike Zimmer made his first comments about it on Wednesday.
Kearse was pulled over by police and arrested after failing field sobriety tests. He has been charged with carrying and possessing a pistol without a permit (a gross misdemeanor), carrying a pistol while under the influence of alcohol, operating a vehicle under the influence of alcohol, operating a motor vehicle with an alcohol concentration of .08 or above within two hours and careless driving.
Cornerback Mike Hughes (https://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/31000/) was a passenger in the car and the police report said he was throwing up outside the vehicle “due to his level of intoxication.” Zimmer referenced both players in a response that made his displeasure with the incident quite obvious.
“I’m very, very ticked off (https://www.twincities.com/2019/10/30/vikings-mike-zimmer-very-ticked-off-about-jayron-kearse-arrest/),” Zimmer said, via Chris Tomasson of the Pioneer Press. “Since I’ve been here the last six years, I’ve worked extremely hard to clean up the reputation of this organization, this team off the field. We’ve put in a lot of resources for them to not have these kind of issues, and for them to do that is really idiotic.”
Zimmer said any discipline for Kearse is a league matter, although the legal process will likely play out before the NFL takes any action.
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Baker has some growing up to do. I wasn't too worried about his "antics" coming out of college. If you don't want to shake the guy's hand at a captain meeting, and your program has stunk for decades, be prepared for the Heisman candidate to light you up and show you up.
But his schtick is getting old. At this point in his career he's a below average starting quarterback who still gets the opponent coming in with bad intentions because he likes to run his mouth. He's not good enough to put a target on his own back and still be successful.
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Baker has some growing up to do. I wasn't too worried about his "antics" coming out of college. If you don't want to shake the guy's hand at a captain meeting, and your program has stunk for decades, be prepared for the Heisman candidate to light you up and show you up.
But his schtick is getting old. At this point in his career he's a below average starting quarterback who still gets the opponent coming in with bad intentions because he likes to run his mouth. He's not good enough to put a target on his own back and still be successful.
Yep yep.
Your favorite QB ran up against much the same thing -- he was demonstrative, he liked to trash talk, he was self-centered, etc. But Newton was a much better QB even before he started winning a lot, then he won a lot, then he matured. I had Panther-fan friends who whined about opponents mocking Cam's first-down points and Superman schtick, but I'd say: "If you're gonna do that stuff, you're gonna get mocked when things go bad."
Mayfield needs to grow up. The problem is, we still don't know if he's gonna be much more than an average NFL QB. Right now, he's little more than an a-hole version of Ryan Tannehill.
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Well, this sucks:
https://www.charlotteobserver.com/sports/nfl/carolina-panthers/article236901303.html?
The gist: Newton's foot injury has not progressed much at all, and he's now going to Green Bay to see Dr. Robert Anderson, a well-known specialist.
Obviously, we'll know nothing until after there is a diagnosis (and until after it's made public, if and when that happens), but it's looking more and more like he might be done for the season. And that very well could mean he's done in Carolina.
He got here less than a year after I moved here, so I have gotten to see him improve as a QB and mature as a young man. He had some outstanding years, and 2015 was an incredible time to be a football fan in Charlotte. There never has been a QB quite like him in NFL history, and I liked watching him play. If this is it here, it's sad that he will have finished with a long stretch of losses, because his play gave Panthers fans a lot of success to enjoy.
But hey ... with a few notable exceptions, this is the way it is in sports. The athletes come and go, and we fans adjust and find new players to root for.
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These games the NFL sends to London are really something.
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I don't mean to upset my Chicago brothers. But your football team sucks. Really, really sucks.
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I don't mean to upset my Chicago brothers. But your football team sucks. Really, really sucks.
Has a reigning NFL Coach of the Year ever been fired?
I know there's a lot of season left to play, but Matt Nagy is caught in a death spiral, mostly of his own making.
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This Bears offense leaves something (yards, points, prevelance of the forward pass) to be desired.
A nightmare match-up for the Bears - a defense with no cornerbacks to speak of, and Mitch Trubisky at quarterback.
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This Bears offense leaves something (yards, points, prevelance of the forward pass) to be desired.
A nightmare match-up for the Bears - a defense with no cornerbacks to speak of, and Mitch Trubisky at quarterback.
It’s Mitchell to you. (That was a giant red flag to me.)
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I’m not joking, I could probably pick up 1 yard of offense in a half.
Bears at -11 yards.
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This Bears offense leaves something (yards, points, prevelance of the forward pass) to be desired.
A nightmare match-up for the Bears - a defense with no cornerbacks to speak of, and Mitch Trubisky at quarterback.
Understatement of the month.
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Has a reigning NFL Coach of the Year ever been fired?
I know there's a lot of season left to play, but Matt Nagy is caught in a death spiral, mostly of his own making.
Looks like a team that quit on the coach that openly admitted to having no faith in them last week
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Does anyone have Marc Trestman and Mark Sanchez’ phone numbers to text to Pace?
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Now the D has given up. Dagger. Dare I say season?
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I don't know if there is a worse opponent for the Bears than the Eagles this coming Sunday. Don't get me wrong, the Niners/Pack/Saints/Pats would truck the Bears right now, but considering how their season ended last year, how their game ended yesterday, going to a Philly team that might be finding it's stride, I have a feeling the Bears are going to get thrashed on Sunday afternoon. Just looking at this on the surface, I see really bad things coming this week ahead.
So yeah...
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New submission for worst roughing call of the season:
https://twitter.com/i/status/1191029917497954305
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Why didn't Nagy go for two there?
Big difference between being down 11 or 12. Little difference between being down 12 or 13.
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Dick Stockton insisting Teddy KGB is Irish is the absolute final nail in the coffin for Fox to finally fire him.
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Dick Stockton insisting Teddy KGB is Irish is the absolute final nail in the coffin for Fox to finally fire him.
He's awful. I've been amazed for a couple years they've kept him.
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Holy cripes. Nice comeback.
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Packer defense getting worse by the week.
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Domination, but settle for field goals means you will lose.
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Chargers will not lose. Packers a no show. Got too full of themselves.
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Chargers will not lose. Packers a no show. Got too full of themselves.
Yep. Not ready today for whatever reason.
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The blueprint is out there. And it’s really not that difficult of one. Don’t throw a ball directly to a defensive back offensively and you’ll have chunk plays all night. And defensively double Davante, man up on the rest and pin the ears back.
NFC Title game appearance will be a pleasant surprise for this team. The receiving group is horrendous.
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The blueprint is out there. And it’s really not that difficult of one. Don’t throw a ball directly to a defensive back offensively and you’ll have chunk plays all night. And defensively double Davante, man up on the rest and pin the ears back.
NFC Title game appearance will be a pleasant surprise for this team. The receiving group is horrendous.
Yes. The “blueprint” that only two teams have figured out.
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Yes. The “blueprint” that only two teams have figured out.
Haven’t really played the toughest of schedules, or quarterbacks who can carry out that blueprint. Not to mention it sometimes takes a couple weeks to figure out the blueprint on teams.
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This wasn’t about a blueprint. They got beat straight up on both lines.
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Never been a fan of Martinez, but he has been particularly bad recently. Out of position way too often. Even considering GB really has only one NFL caliber DL.
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This wasn’t about a blueprint. They got beat straight up on both lines.
Yeah it’s about personnel. 2 weapons on offense, and you can take one out of the game by ignoring the other receivers the Packers have and keeping him in check.
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Never been a fan of Martinez, but he has been particularly bad recently. Out of position way too often. Even considering GB really has only one NFL caliber DL.
Agreed. No range either.
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Yes. The “blueprint” that only two teams have figured out.
Detroit was done dirty by the refs.
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Detroit was done dirty by the refs.
Not really. Detroit still would’ve had to go 40 yards to get into FG range with 1:30 left and 0 timeouts just to get to OT. They had 2 big plays on their first two drives and did nothing offensively after.
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Not really. Detroit still would’ve had to go 40 yards to get into FG range with 1:30 left and 0 timeouts just to get to OT. They had 2 big plays on their first two drives and did nothing offensively after.
GB would have had to punt and not earned that TD in my opinion. Detroit up 22-13 on 3rd and 10...AR sacked for loss and that forces a punt, more time off clock and who knows if Detroit scores. Instead bailout and GB gets a TD as the drive kept alive.
Then the next call.
https://www.freep.com/story/sports/nfl/lions/2019/10/14/detroit-lions-score-green-bay-packers/3982296002/
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GB would have had to punt and not earned that TD in my opinion. Detroit up 22-13 on 3rd and 10...AR sacked for loss and that forces a punt, more time off clock and who knows if Detroit scores. Instead bailout and GB gets a TD as the drive kept alive.
Then the next call.
https://www.freep.com/story/sports/nfl/lions/2019/10/14/detroit-lions-score-green-bay-packers/3982296002/
The refs also missed a blatant PI on Aaron Jones on third down that would’ve extended a drive. The second call changed the end of the game but given how the Lions offense played after their first two drives they might not have gotten anywhere near field goal range.
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GB would have had to punt and not earned that TD in my opinion. Detroit up 22-13 on 3rd and 10...AR sacked for loss and that forces a punt, more time off clock and who knows if Detroit scores. Instead bailout and GB gets a TD as the drive kept alive.
Then the next call.
https://www.freep.com/story/sports/nfl/lions/2019/10/14/detroit-lions-score-green-bay-packers/3982296002/
The NFL reviewed that first call and determined it was called correctly.
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If your last name is Allen and you started as QB today in the NFL...you were a winner.
Brandon Allen - Broncos
Josh Allen - Bills
Kyle Allen - Panthers
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The NFL reviewed that first call and determined it was called correctly.
Lol
Someone better tell Troy Vincent if the NFL who said the refs missed the calls.
https://www.upi.com/Sports_News/NFL/2019/10/16/NFL-admits-to-bad-call-in-Lions-MNF-loss-to-Packers/5321571225490/
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Lol
Someone better tell Troy Vincent if the NFL who said the refs missed the calls.
https://www.upi.com/Sports_News/NFL/2019/10/16/NFL-admits-to-bad-call-in-Lions-MNF-loss-to-Packers/5321571225490/
Read your own link.
"There was a pool report that I'm assuming most have read. There was one that was clear that we support. And there was another that when you look at it, you review the play, not something that you want to see called. In particular the pass rush. One that you could support, the other one clearly after you review it, you've seen some [slow motion replay], the foul wasn't there."
Says one was a penalty (the first) the second was not. Your link confirms what I said, because it is the same quote I based my statement on.
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Read your own link.
"There was a pool report that I'm assuming most have read. There was one that was clear that we support. And there was another that when you look at it, you review the play, not something that you want to see called. In particular the pass rush. One that you could support, the other one clearly after you review it, you've seen some [slow motion replay], the foul wasn't there."
Says one was a penalty (the first) the second was not. Your link confirms what I said, because it is the same quote I based my statement on.
Lol.
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Didn't see any of the Packers or Bears games because Mrs. 82 and I were at the Panthers game, enjoying a solid performance by our lads. Kyle Allen played well, his receivers made several huge catches, the defense was mostly good, and McCaffrey is incredible. Has to be one of the leading MVP candidates.
"Riverboat Ron" made two huge gambles and both came out perfectly. Went for it on 4th-and-2 from the 7 and somehow McCaffrey was left uncovered for a walk-in TD. I had said that I thought they should kick the FG, so I was thrilled to admit I was wrong. And in the 2H, after Tennessee had stolen momentum by scoring to make it 17-7 and then apparently getting the Panthers 3-and-out, Rivera called for a fake punt and the run picked up the necessary yards; a few plays later, Allen hit DJ Moore on a long pass to set up the 2nd of 3 McCaffrey TDs.
The fake punt was especially ballsy. Get stopped there, and Tennessee gets the ball right back, probably goes in to score, and it's a nail-biter the rest of the way.
After getting our doors blown in last week at San Fran, I was worried it might start a losing streak, especially with the Panthers having to play in Green Bay next week.
Instead, I'm quite encouraged going into that game now. Here's hoping the Pack plays as poorly as they apparently did today (after reading all y'all's posts).
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A bad day for the NFC North.
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A bad day for the NFC North.
You mean the Greatest Division in the History of Mankind?
In fairness, the teams collectively had been kicking butt much of the season so I understand all the love the division was getting.
But the Bears are toast, the Lions are the Lions, and now apparently the Packers and Vikings are showing some warts. That's the Parity Football League for ya!
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The Lions will always be the Lions.
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The Lions will always be the Lions.
You ain't lion!
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DOWN GO THE PATRIOTS!
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DOWN GO THE PATRIOTS!
First time they play a real team, they get beat. If it wasn't for two really opportunistic turnovers, this one would have been a blowout.
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First time they play a real team, they get beat. If it wasn't for two really opportunistic turnovers, this one would have been a blowout.
Yup. Everything you said here.
The 2 great bets this week were Philly and Balt.
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LACES OUT INDY!!!
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Read your own link.
"There was a pool report that I'm assuming most have read. There was one that was clear that we support. And there was another that when you look at it, you review the play, not something that you want to see called. In particular the pass rush. One that you could support, the other one clearly after you review it, you've seen some [slow motion replay], the foul wasn't there."
Says one was a penalty (the first) the second was not. Your link confirms what I said, because it is the same quote I based my statement on.
I did...one was NOT. Furthermore, the fact he can even say one he could “support” when it was the same action is laughable, but I am glad you agree that they admitted at least one of them was a blown call.
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Oh Mr. Whitehead...
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I did...one was NOT. Furthermore, the fact he can even say one he could “support” when it was the same action is laughable, but I am glad you agree that they admitted at least one of them was a blown call.
Which is in direct contradiction from what you claimed. You claimed that the call the refs got correct led to a Packers touchdown that the Packers should not have gotten. The call was correct though, so...
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Oh Mr. Whitehead...
Cat ain't no Rhode Scholar outta Auburn, hey?
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DOWN GO THE PATRIOTS!
Got Chargers and Ravens right in my pool this week.
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Which is in direct contradiction from what you claimed. You claimed that the call the refs got correct led to a Packers touchdown that the Packers should not have gotten. The call was correct though, so...
I said both calls...or did you miss “then the next call...”
And they missed both calls, because the exact same incident happened. Now, they made no claim whatsoever that they missed the obvious call you claimed they missed...must not have been...right?
Refs did Lions dirty that game.
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Cat ain't no Rhode Scholar outta Auburn, hey?
Imagine a different author for a moment...ponder the reaction...
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Imagine a different author for a moment...ponder the reaction...
We're all shocked that you're trying to take it this direction.
The guy was cut because of this. Which seems appropriate. You also want a public flogging?
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We're all shocked that you're trying to take it this direction.
The guy was cut because of this. Which seems appropriate. You also want a public flogging?
Jockey would claim that he needs to be "destroyed."
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Jockey would claim that he needs to be "destroyed."
Cheeks would claim that PC culture has ruined another life.
Well, you know, if certain factors were present.
And I'll say no more so as not to completely derail the NFL thread.
How 'bout them Browns?
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Jockey would claim that he needs to be "destroyed."
not jesse "jockstrap" jackson!!
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Has a reigning NFL Coach of the Year ever been fired?
I know there's a lot of season left to play, but Matt Nagy is caught in a death spiral, mostly of his own making.
I know you said NFL Coach of the Year, but Matt Nagy = Dwane Casey (maybe)
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I gave my tickets yesterday to a Packers fan here at office. He said the stadium was at minimum 85% Packers fans. Could not understand all the false starts, etc for a “home” game.
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I said both calls...or did you miss “then the next call...”
And they missed both calls, because the exact same incident happened. Now, they made no claim whatsoever that they missed the obvious call you claimed they missed...must not have been...right?
Refs did Lions dirty that game.
I have no idea what you are talking about.
Yes, you said both calls were wrong. You cited an article as your proof...an article that explained that one of the two calls, the one that extended a Packers drive and resulted in a touchdown, was correctly called. The article you cited proved your point...to be wrong.
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I know you said NFL Coach of the Year, but Matt Nagy = Dwane Casey (maybe)
The problem is that Nagy has learned nothing in a year and a half. When it comes down to his "system" vs what he sees with his eyes, he always chooses his system.
We will see how Lafleur reacts as teams get film on his system. Early indications are good, but we'll see. I thought going into yesterdays game he chose the system over what his eyes (or anyone's) could see. Everyone knew that Bosa was going to disrupt things. He is as close to a young JJ Watt as we will see. Yet his game plan stuck with the system over game-planning for Bosa specifically. We saw the results in the 1st half and even to some extent in the 2nd half.
Being able to game plan for specific opponents is the biggest factor in Belichick's greatness, IMO.
As an aside, thanks for your defense, Pakuni. It amuses me every time one of the 4 simpletons (chico, rocket, 4never and Zig) fall back on the same line. I assume they PM each other and giggle about how clever they are). And as I have said before, my wife laughs at those comments every time. Well, she actually laughs at whomever posted the comments.
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Charlotte Observer article about the Chargers giving the Panthers a "blueprint" for winning at GB this week:
https://www.charlotteobserver.com/sports/nfl/carolina-panthers/article236983259.html?
Cliff Notes: run the ball; pressure AR; play mistake-free.
All might be easier said than done for the Panthers. For example, although the Panthers get after QBs fairly well, they often have to blitz to do it.
I'm expecting a loss, hoping I'm wrong.
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The blueprint is out there on how to beat the Patriots.
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The blueprint is out there on how to beat the Patriots.
Yep. Just go get yourself a Lamar Jackson.
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Charlotte Observer article about the Chargers giving the Panthers a "blueprint" for winning at GB this week:
https://www.charlotteobserver.com/sports/nfl/carolina-panthers/article236983259.html?
Cliff Notes: run the ball; pressure AR; play mistake-free.
All might be easier said than done for the Panthers. For example, although the Panthers get after QBs fairly well, they often have to blitz to do it.
I'm expecting a loss, hoping I'm wrong.
Yeah it's a very clear blueprint. It basically comes down to: play man and blitz everyone, and have competent quarterback play. If Rivera is smart enough to keep the ball out of Allen's hands they'll give the Packers fits. Nagy, Zimmer, Garret put the ball in their below average quarterbacks' hands and that's the only way the Packers can stop teams. If Rivera is half way competent he'll continue to run McCaffrey into the ground.
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Certainly sounds like the Packers spent a little too much time enjoying LA.
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Certainly sounds like the Packers spent a little too much time enjoying LA.
Afternoon game against a seemingly inferior opponent in LA is a recipe for disaster. There has been a joke about "LA nightlife" the last few years with the Lakers being down that betting against the road team for Sunday games, especially 2H, was a solid strategy cause the performances were limp at best. Its one thing to get up for the Showtime Lakers or the current Rams, but a mid level team with an off day in LA? Bottle flu for sure.
The blueprint is out there on how to beat the Patriots.
People were trying to deny or downplay it, but the Pats opponent record coming into the game was 18-47. Their "best" win was the Bills who are 6-2 and 5 of their 6 wins are against teams with 2 or fewer wins. So its really 12-45 plus a team who feasted on the same cupcakes and played the final 3rd of their game with their backup QB. Of course the Pats are a good, probably very good, team. But their "historic" defense played historically terrible offenses and they got promptly thumped by a legit playoff team.
As for the Bears, I hope Pace is motivated to move decisively later in the year out of both self preservation and protection of what legacy he could have left. Looking at the remaining schedule, I only see 3 more possible wins, and that would mean sweeping Detroit which I doubt. Nagy lost the locker room and that makes me less inclined to expect a surprise win powered by the defense.
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Afternoon game against a seemingly inferior opponent in LA is a recipe for disaster. There has been a joke about "LA nightlife" the last few years with the Lakers being down that betting against the road team for Sunday games, especially 2H, was a solid strategy cause the performances were limp at best. Its one thing to get up for the Showtime Lakers or the current Rams, but a mid level team with an off day in LA? Bottle flu for sure.
Yup. I'm an avid NBA follower and that includes NBA Twitter. I know all about the LA nightlife trends. For whatever reason, I didn't think it was prominent in football.
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Yup. I'm an avid NBA follower and that includes NBA Twitter. I know all about the LA nightlife trends. For whatever reason, I didn't think it was prominent in football.
Going out 48 hours in advance was not a wise decision.
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People were trying to deny or downplay it, but the Pats opponent record coming into the game was 18-47. Their "best" win was the Bills who are 6-2 and 5 of their 6 wins are against teams with 2 or fewer wins. So its really 12-45 plus a team who feasted on the same cupcakes and played the final 3rd of their game with their backup QB. Of course the Pats are a good, probably very good, team. But their "historic" defense played historically terrible offenses and they got promptly thumped by a legit playoff team.
As for the Bears, I hope Pace is motivated to move decisively later in the year out of both self preservation and protection of what legacy he could have left. Looking at the remaining schedule, I only see 3 more possible wins, and that would mean sweeping Detroit which I doubt. Nagy lost the locker room and that makes me less inclined to expect a surprise win powered by the defense.
Agree completely with the 1st paragraph.
I only differ on the 2nd in that Pace is as much of the problem as Nagy and Mitch. His 1st rounders are Kevin White, Floyd, Trubisky and Roquan. I believe all were top 10 picks. Not even one difference maker. 2nd rounders are Goldman, Whitehair, Shaheen, and Daniels. That would be an OK group - if they were 3rd / 4th rounders.
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Agree completely with the 1st paragraph.
I only differ on the 2nd in that Pace is as much of the problem as Nagy and Mitch. His 1st rounders are Kevin White, Floyd, Trubisky and Roquan. I believe all were top 10 picks. Not even one difference maker. 2nd rounders are Goldman, Whitehair, Shaheen, and Daniels. That would be an OK group - if they were 3rd / 4th rounders.
https://www.reddit.com/r/CHIBears/comments/dpbxbn/oc_4year_draft_analysis_ryan_pace/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
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https://www.reddit.com/r/CHIBears/comments/dpbxbn/oc_4year_draft_analysis_ryan_pace/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
"Trubs was drafted #2 and ranks #8 in AV for the 2017 draft class. Overdrafted by 6 picks,"
Kinda makes me question his methodology.
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"Trubs was drafted #2 and ranks #8 in AV for the 2017 draft class. Overdrafted by 6 picks,"
Kinda makes me question his methodology.
AV is not "his" methodology. And you clearly didn't read the literal next paragraph.
Regardless, a GM ability to assess/draft talent isn't based on one pick.
Pace is above average thus far. He's been fine.
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AV is not "his" methodology. And you clearly didn't read the literal next paragraph.
Regardless, a GM ability to assess/draft talent isn't based on one pick.
Pace is above average thus far. He's been fine.
As much as I respect PFR's effort to quantify player value, AV has some significant flaws, by their own admission. It gives individual players value for team success, meaning a guy like Leonard Floyd scores higher simply for sharing the field with Khalil Mack and Eddie Jackson, regardless of his actual value. It values stat accumulation and games played without context. (Like, even a bad inside linebacker is going to accumulate tackles if given the snaps). It doesn't seem to account for negative plays, like penalties, sacks allowed, missed tackles, fumbles, drops, interceptions.
It's interesting, but I'm not sure it's all that valuable. Pro Football Focus grades, while not without flaws of their own, are far more comprehensive.
Ultimately, that reddit poster strikes me as someone who wanted to defend Pace's drafting and concocted a formula to do it (not AV, but his methodology for deeming who's a bust and who's a gem, etc.) He also chooses to ignore relative pick values (missing on a top 10 pick is far more significant than missing in a 5th rounder) and missed opportunities, i.e. choosing Trubisky meant not choosing Watson or Mahomes, choosing White meant not choosing Gurley or Andrus Peat, choosing Floyd meant not choosing Sheldon Rankins or Laremy Tunsil.
And, of course, he complete;ly ignores the value of the picks that were given up to make some of these acquisitions.
At the end of the day, when you make four consecutive top 10 picks and don't turn a single one of them into an impact player (maybe still hope for Roquan?), you're not doing an "average" job of drafting, much less above average.
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Pace may be “fine” overall, but when you miss that badly on a quarterback, it doesn’t really matter.
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Pace may be “fine” overall, but when you miss that badly on a quarterback, it doesn’t really matter.
Word.
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Pace may be “fine” overall, but when you miss that badly on a quarterback, it doesn’t really matter.
Yep. As a few of us discussed a coupla pages back, one of the best ways to derail a franchise is to miss badly on a top-3-pick QB ... and that goes double when you trade up to get him.
The wasted capital -- the draft pick used and the additional picks traded -- is bad enough. You spend so much time and energy scouting him and then of course trying to develop him that to miss badly is a crusher. And when you have a championship-ready defense, as the Bears had last season and figured to have this season, but your offense can't get out of its own way, it makes it seem even worse.
Finally, there is the emotional side of it. It is super frustrating to players who feel they are doing their jobs only to see their QB suck. He is supposed to be the leader, a team's rock. When instead he is the Achilles' heel, it can be psychologically devastating for a franchise.
As was the case for most of you Chicagoans, I was there for three first-round QBs -- Mirer, McNown and Grossman -- and each failure sucked wind out of the franchise. McNown was the worst because not only did he blow as a QB but he was a me-first d-bag who quickly became a cancer. Rex was quite popular with his teammates, and he had the most talent of the three, but he simply couldn't sustain any of the little bit of success he had. Mirer was a trainwreck who was victimized by not-great teammates and cruddy coaching as well as his own limitations. The Bears absolutely hated playing behind McNown, and even though Jauron was a lousy coach, I always felt sorry for him that he got stuck with that albatross.
Each of those QB decisions set the Bears back several years, and the same could happen with this one.
Let's not forget that Pace (and Nagy) also badly bungled the team's kicking situation.
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Chargers on the move again?
The Athletic is reporting that the NFL is talking about moving the Chargers to London (where they may have more fans than in LA).
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Well my doctor has ordered me to stop watching New York Midgets (formerly Giants) games and to keep away from watching the New York Sopwith Camels (formerly Jets) as well, since my blood pressure has gone through the roof.
My apologies to all the Midgets out there as they could probably play much better, and the Sopwith Camel which was one hell of a fighting aircraft in WWI.
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Chargers on the move again?
The Athletic is reporting that the NFL is talking about moving the Chargers to London (where they may have more fans than in LA).
They cannot sell tickets to the new stadium if their life depended on it. The Chargers fans had the gall to say no public money for a new stadium when there were many more important issues in San Diego to deal with. Been a screwup situation since the get go. What a shame for San Diegoans if this happens...the ultimate kick.
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Chargers on the move again?
The Athletic is reporting that the NFL is talking about moving the Chargers to London (where they may have more fans than in LA).
And it looks like London may only be one alternative being considered. Including St. Louis.
Should have never left San Diego. A new stadium would have happened eventually there.
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And it looks like London may only be one alternative being considered. Including St. Louis.
Should have never left San Diego. A new stadium would have happened eventually there.
They SHOULD have taken the Vegas deal and let the Raiders twist in the wind.
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They SHOULD have taken the Vegas deal and let the Raiders twist in the wind.
I don't think the Vegas deal was ever offered to the Chargers. That whole thing was put together by the Raiders and Sheldon Adelson.
And if the NFL allowed the Raiders to move the LA instead if the Chargers, they'd be the most popular NFL team in that city right now.
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/31/sports/los-angeles-raiders-rams-fans-national-football-league.html
https://www.latimes.com/sports/rams/la-sp-rams-raiders-hernandez-20180818-story.html
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My recollection was that there were two stadium proposals. One would have involved the Chargers and Raiders sharing a site in Carson. The other was the Rams in Inglewood. They went with the Rams site, and invited the Chargers with the Raiders next on the list. The Chargers said "yes," to some people's surprise. That's what lead to the process that eventually got the Raiders to Vegas.
BTW, moving the Chargers to LA to share the Rams site was the "brainchild" of Jerry Jones.
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It's always an interesting discussion when it comes to public money going toward stadiums.
On the one hand, it's never easy to justify giving hundreds of millions of dollars (or more) toward a stadium or arena for a team owned by a billionaire. There isn't a single city in which those funds wouldn't have been more useful elsewhere.
On the other hand, it's simply the way the game is played now. With very few exceptions (and there have been a few, thankfully), if you want to keep your team, you have to play ball with the billionaire. So you have to decide, "Do we want to be a 'major-league city' or not?" If you decide to let the team go, that's OK, that's your decision, but will you regret it forever? If you decide that the team is a major part of your city's "psyche" or "worth," then you'll have to play the game and pony up.
When I was in Minneapolis, the owner of the North Stars wanted a few million dollars to connect Met Center to the new Mall of America. The state and city of Bloomington told him no, so he moved the team to Dallas. And a few years later, the state paid up big-time to bring an expansion team to St. Paul. So they sure showed that North Stars' owner, who became even richer in Dallas.
Sometimes a city (or state) doesn't realize how important a franchise is until it's gone. But it's certainly understandable to not want to hand zillions to a zillionaire. We might be facing the same difficult choice here with the Panthers within a few short years.
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You are correct 82. I just don't like when they talk about stadiums generating economic activity as justification. Sure Fiserv has been nice for its neighborhood, but its taken business away from Water Street. Plus people are just taking dollars they would have spent in Brookfield, New Berlin, etc. and moved it elsewhere.
The way I view it is that, if a city, county or state *want* a stadium, then build it! Don't attempt to justify why through phony economic studies. Just do it and enjoy it.
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It's always an interesting discussion when it comes to public money going toward stadiums.
On the one hand, it's never easy to justify giving hundreds of millions of dollars (or more) toward a stadium or arena for a team owned by a billionaire. There isn't a single city in which those funds wouldn't have been more useful elsewhere.
On the other hand, it's simply the way the game is played now. With very few exceptions (and there have been a few, thankfully), if you want to keep your team, you have to play ball with the billionaire. So you have to decide, "Do we want to be a 'major-league city' or not?" If you decide to let the team go, that's OK, that's your decision, but will you regret it forever? If you decide that the team is a major part of your city's "psyche" or "worth," then you'll have to play the game and pony up.
When I was in Minneapolis, the owner of the North Stars wanted a few million dollars to connect Met Center to the new Mall of America. The state and city of Bloomington told him no, so he moved the team to Dallas. And a few years later, the state paid up big-time to bring an expansion team to St. Paul. So they sure showed that North Stars' owner, who became even richer in Dallas.
Sometimes a city (or state) doesn't realize how important a franchise is until it's gone. But it's certainly understandable to not want to hand zillions to a zillionaire. We might be facing the same difficult choice here with the Panthers within a few short years.
I know that the Miller Park tax was controversial and cost some legislators their jobs, but I 100% back a defined tax to support the building of that stadium (and would have done the same for the Fiserv). By way of a relatively small sales tax I pay some amount every year toward getting to have the Brewers in Milwaukee, and that's fine with me because I use the stadium and value having the team in the city. In the case of the Miller Park tax it was a new tax, so it wasn't exactly like they were taking out of a tight budget where the funds could have gone elsewhere (though I suppose they could have raised the tax to go to the general revenue and told the Brewers to pay for their own stadium, but that wasn't really in discussion I don't think).
I don't recall how all of the financing discussions went in other cities, mainly because I don't have that much cause to follow the intricacies of St. Louis' negotiations with the Rams (for example), but it always seems to me that there ought to be a mutually-beneficial ground to be found, rather than the Deadspin (RIP) take of "All Public Financing EVIL" vs Owners "All Public Financing Necessary" zero sum game.
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Yep. Just go get yourself a Lamar Jackson.
but your Lamar Jackson has to stay healthy. Cam Newton was able to survive many of the massive hits on him because of his size but eventually (thanks to officials looking the other way and letting Cam be absolutely abused), he broke down RGIII had one good year before he was done as a starter. Also, if the teams meet again Belicheck will gameplan specifically for what he saw from Jackson and likely slow him down significantly.
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It won't happen, but the Chargers should move to Chicago. I say this below knowing it'll never happen.
There's a story out there that there's an unnamed person who has a standing offer to the McCaskey family for $4 billion for the Bears. Whoever this person is, should I offer $3 billion to Spanos, and then work with the city of Arlington Heights to buy the racetrack, and figure out a way to build a dome there. Yes, the Chargers would always be the stepchild to the Bears, but I always thought Chicago could support two NFL teams, and a smart and innovative owner would put the Bears ownership to shame in this market.
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It won't happen, but the Chargers should move to Chicago. I say this below knowing it'll never happen.
There's a story out there that there's an unnamed person who has a standing offer to the McCaskey family for $4 billion for the Bears. Whoever this person is, should I offer $3 billion to Spanos, and then work with the city of Arlington Heights to buy the racetrack, and figure out a way to build a dome there. Yes, the Chargers would always be the stepchild to the Bears, but I always thought Chicago could support two NFL teams, and a smart and innovative owner would put the Bears ownership to shame in this market.
I like it
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Agree with both jficke and Sultan on the whole stadium issue.
but your Lamar Jackson has to stay healthy. Cam Newton was able to survive many of the massive hits on him because of his size but eventually (thanks to officials looking the other way and letting Cam be absolutely abused), he broke down RGIII had one good year before he was done as a starter.
Also agree with this. It's great to get a mobile QB until he can no longer be effective as a mobile QB. Still, the Panthers did get 7 mostly outstanding seasons from Cam, including an MVP/Super Bowl season and 3 division titles. But I don't think I'd ever get a smaller QB with the intention of asking him to run the ball 10-15 times a game. Jackson is quite a bit bigger than RG3 and a couple others, but obviously not as big as Cam. And of course, no matter how big you are, your head can still get cracked open and your knee ligaments are no stronger.
It won't happen, but the Chargers should move to Chicago. I say this below knowing it'll never happen.
There's a story out there that there's an unnamed person who has a standing offer to the McCaskey family for $4 billion for the Bears. Whoever this person is, should I offer $3 billion to Spanos, and then work with the city of Arlington Heights to buy the racetrack, and figure out a way to build a dome there. Yes, the Chargers would always be the stepchild to the Bears, but I always thought Chicago could support two NFL teams, and a smart and innovative owner would put the Bears ownership to shame in this market.
I remember when I was in Chicago there was talk about bringing in another NFL team. It never went anywhere, obviously, and it was seen as a hollow threat to make taxpayers pony up for money to re-do Soldier's Field (my friend). I agree with you that it will never happen.
Jeesh ... I'm sure agreeable today!
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It won't happen, but the Chargers should move to Chicago. I say this below knowing it'll never happen.
There's a story out there that there's an unnamed person who has a standing offer to the McCaskey family for $4 billion for the Bears. Whoever this person is, should I offer $3 billion to Spanos, and then work with the city of Arlington Heights to buy the racetrack, and figure out a way to build a dome there. Yes, the Chargers would always be the stepchild to the Bears, but I always thought Chicago could support two NFL teams, and a smart and innovative owner would put the Bears ownership to shame in this market.
Interesting, but the Bears would fight it tooth and nail and I imagine they'd get enough old-school owners to side with them to block that. Also, I think the league would much prefer opening up a new market, i.e. London, Portland, than double up in an existing market.
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QB news ..
- Cam placed on IR. Season over.
- Foles in, Minshew out in Jacksonville.
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Chargers response to London rumors:
https://twitter.com/Chargers/status/1191794254294634496
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Chargers response to London rumors:
https://twitter.com/Chargers/status/1191794254294634496
Considering they just left SD, probably not the best choice of meme.
Also agree with this. It's great to get a mobile QB until he can no longer be effective as a mobile QB. Still, the Panthers did get 7 mostly outstanding seasons from Cam, including an MVP/Super Bowl season and 3 division titles. But I don't think I'd ever get a smaller QB with the intention of asking him to run the ball 10-15 times a game. Jackson is quite a bit bigger than RG3 and a couple others, but obviously not as big as Cam. And of course, no matter how big you are, your head can still get cracked open and your knee ligaments are no stronger.
I think a better comp for Jackson is Vick, who except for the year he broke his leg in the preseason, was fairly healthy most of his career until his 30s, free of the injuries that normally plague mobile QBs.
Cam is built like a TE so he welcomed hits and used his brute force and size to his advantage, Jackson by and large does not. Also, beyond any size differences, Shanahan had no idea what to do with RG3 and let him get brutalized and further played him on injuries he should have not. His whole time in Washington was a baffling comedy of errors as far as he was concerned. Harbaugh and Greg Roman seem to know what they are doing with Jackson and I imagine the outcome is different.
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Considering they just left SD, probably not the best choice of meme.
I think a better comp for Jackson is Vick, who except for the year he broke his leg in the preseason, was fairly healthy most of his career until his 30s, free of the injuries that normally plague mobile QBs.
Cam is built like a TE so he welcomed hits and used his brute force and size to his advantage, Jackson by and large does not. Also, beyond any size differences, Shanahan had no idea what to do with RG3 and let him get brutalized and further played him on injuries he should have not. His whole time in Washington was a baffling comedy of errors as far as he was concerned. Harbaugh and Greg Roman seem to know what they are doing with Jackson and I imagine the outcome is different.
I like that comparison, JW. If he is used smartly -- and, of course, if he is a little lucky -- there is no reason Jackson has to be a cautionary tale waiting to happen.
Jackson is similar in size to great running QBs like Vick, Steve Young and Roger Staubach, all of whom avoided serious injuries for most of their careers.
You're also right about Newton. He took a ton of hits, many of which he initiated. There has never been a QB like him, and who knows when another like him will come along.
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It's always an interesting discussion when it comes to public money going toward stadiums.
On the one hand, it's never easy to justify giving hundreds of millions of dollars (or more) toward a stadium or arena for a team owned by a billionaire. There isn't a single city in which those funds wouldn't have been more useful elsewhere.
On the other hand, it's simply the way the game is played now. With very few exceptions (and there have been a few, thankfully), if you want to keep your team, you have to play ball with the billionaire. So you have to decide, "Do we want to be a 'major-league city' or not?" If you decide to let the team go, that's OK, that's your decision, but will you regret it forever? If you decide that the team is a major part of your city's "psyche" or "worth," then you'll have to play the game and pony up.
When I was in Minneapolis, the owner of the North Stars wanted a few million dollars to connect Met Center to the new Mall of America. The state and city of Bloomington told him no, so he moved the team to Dallas. And a few years later, the state paid up big-time to bring an expansion team to St. Paul. So they sure showed that North Stars' owner, who became even richer in Dallas.
Sometimes a city (or state) doesn't realize how important a franchise is until it's gone. But it's certainly understandable to not want to hand zillions to a zillionaire. We might be facing the same difficult choice here with the Panthers within a few short years.
LA’s newest stadium is privately financed. Opens next year. As was Staples center last decade.
Cities are so nervous about losing their “major league” status that the pols and citizens can’t wait to throw money at them. I feel sorry for San Diego, but I t remains a fine city with our without the Chargers.
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And speaking of Newton ...
Officially done for the season.
https://www.charlotteobserver.com/sports/nfl/carolina-panthers/article236983355.html?
Actually, he theoretically could come back for the playoffs, but ... yeah right.
I'm guessing that his Panthers career is over, too, especially if Kyle Allen continues playing as he has much of his time as starter. The Panthers can save a ton of $$ on the salary cap by cutting him, and if they keep him they pretty much would have to extend his contract at a ridiculous salary.
It will be interesting to see what Cam will be worth on the open market. I would think he would have to prove to teams that he is healthy, beyond a shadow of a doubt. Even then, a lot of hard miles on that QB machine.
I have enjoyed watching Newton, truly a unique athlete, tough competitor and exciting performer. At his best, there were few players more valuable to his team, as he carried the load both via the pass and run, and set the tone for an entire franchise.
He arrived as a spoiled brat who would mope after losses, but he matured into a team leader, winner and MVP. Very giving with his time and money in the community. Folks here still "dab," which he popularized a few years ago, and numerous teams/players around the league follow his lead of giving the football to a fan after a TD.
Sad to see a fine career (at least the Panthers chapter of it) end like this.
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LA’s newest stadium is privately financed. Opens next year. As was Staples center last decade.
The Rams stadium is unique due to multiple tenants and attached amenities that together are valued at more than the stadium itself. That circumstance isn't likely to be replicated elsewhere.
Also, while privately financed, Kroenke is getting tax incentives that have been valued at as much as $180 million, so it's not without public money.
It's a far better deal than most - Vegas, for example - but there's definitely tax dollars going to Kroenke here.
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The Rams stadium is unique due to multiple tenants and attached amenities that together are valued at more than the stadium itself. That circumstance isn't likely to be replicated elsewhere.
Also, while privately financed, Kroenke is getting tax incentives that have been valued at as much as $180 million, so it's not without public money.
It's a far better deal than most - Vegas, for example - but there's definitely tax dollars going to Kroenke here.
There have been a few others similar to this. United Center was privately financed. I think the new Warriors' digs, too. Again, all got incentives from the government (taxpayers), but they still were more favorable to taxpayers than most.
The thing about these rare deals is that most were in cities in which it was highly unlikely the teams would walk, therefore they had less leverage. I mean, the Bulls and Blackhawks weren't gonna leave Chicago ... and even in the .01% chance they did, they would have been replaced immediately by the NBA/NHL.
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Interesting, but the Bears would fight it tooth and nail and I imagine they'd get enough old-school owners to side with them to block that. Also, I think the league would much prefer opening up a new market, i.e. London, Portland, than double up in an existing market.
Yes, you're absolutely right it would never happen because the McCaskey family, while not a highly political player in the NFL landscape, carries an enormous amount of respect and support from the old blood owners (Giants/Lions/Steelers).
I've always thought though if a smart owner came along and viewed Chicago with media rights deals, putting a domed stadium in the right spot (honestly, Arlington Park is the best spot I can think of with highway access/train access, land is designed to host traffic/events). Of course I say this as someone who lives in Elgin and doesn't want to drive to the city and then go sit through 3 hours of cold/wind in December.
I know it'll never happen, but I always thought the NFL never looked at the idea of having a second team in Chicago. I know CBS (or whoever has the AFC media rights) would love it.
Apparently the $4 billion rumor is widely known in NFL circles (according to Forbes). I have no idea if it's true, who the person is that has had that offer to the McCaskey's.
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Apparently the $4 billion rumor is widely known in NFL circles (according to Forbes). I have no idea if it's true, who the person is that has had that offer to the McCaskey's.
How old is the rumor? My thought would be Ken Griffin or the Pritzkers, in conjuction with Pat Ryan perhaps. Ken Griffin doesn't seem to be a sports fan, but he has very much shown a vanity in real estate purchases, so its the kind of BSD move that would make sense. And the one or more of the Pritzkers one-upping the Rickett's seems like the sort of Chicago royalty move that I could see as well. Either way, it subsided for a year, but I can't express my excitement for the McCaskey ownership era to come to a close. I hope Ted Phillips is retained and then shipped to head of International Scouting in Yakutsk
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How old is the rumor? My thought would be Ken Griffin or the Pritzkers, in conjuction with Pat Ryan perhaps. Ken Griffin doesn't seem to be a sports fan, but he has very much shown a vanity in real estate purchases, so its the kind of BSD move that would make sense. And the one or more of the Pritzkers one-upping the Rickett's seems like the sort of Chicago royalty move that I could see as well. Either way, it subsided for a year, but I can't express my excitement for the McCaskey ownership era to come to a close. I hope Ted Phillips is retained and then shipped to head of International Scouting in Yakutsk
Pat Ryan makes sense, given that he already owns a chunk of the team.
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And it looks like London may only be one alternative being considered. Including St. Louis.
Should have never left San Diego. A new stadium would have happened eventually there.
Will they adjust salaries as their tax burden will be much higher than playing here in the States.
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https://www.barstoolsports.com/chicago/people-who-wouldnt-consider-trading-khalil-mack-this-offseason-are-insane
Dish said it first!
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The Rams stadium is unique due to multiple tenants and attached amenities that together are valued at more than the stadium itself. That circumstance isn't likely to be replicated elsewhere.
Also, while privately financed, Kroenke is getting tax incentives that have been valued at as much as $180 million, so it's not without public money.
It's a far better deal than most - Vegas, for example - but there's definitely tax dollars going to Kroenke here.
Fair enough, though I was talking about direct contributions for construction, land usage, etc...maybe that's what you are also including. I'm trying to honestly remember the last stadium built in California that got straight gov't funding. I'm sure there are some, maybe one of the Nor Cal ones, but it has largely been a huge no-no in this state in an ironic twist.
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Pat Ryan makes sense, given that he already owns a chunk of the team.
Plus, he has the right of first refusal.
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I don't think the Vegas deal was ever offered to the Chargers. That whole thing was put together by the Raiders and Sheldon Adelson.
And if the NFL allowed the Raiders to move the LA instead if the Chargers, they'd be the most popular NFL team in that city right now.
I thought Spencer Strasmore was involved too.
Could’ve sworn Spencer Strathmore was involved too.
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/31/sports/los-angeles-raiders-rams-fans-national-football-league.html
https://www.latimes.com/sports/rams/la-sp-rams-raiders-hernandez-20180818-story.html
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Fair enough, though I was talking about direct contributions for construction, land usage, etc...maybe that's what you are also including. I'm trying to honestly remember the last stadium built in California that got straight gov't funding. I'm sure there are some, maybe one of the Nor Cal ones, but it has largely been a huge no-no in this state in an ironic twist.
I believe the Niners stadium involved public funding.
I don't mean to knock the Rams situation. It's clearly a far better setup for the community than most stadium deals. But it seems there are some unique factors there (location, size, associated projects, etc.) that are unlikely most other places.
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https://www.espn.co.uk/nfl/story/_/id/28019240/green-bay-packers-visit-key-london-nfl-uk-md
So the Packers are the only team to not play in London? Didn't realize that.
The problem is the Packers will never give up a home game. And teams don't want to give up games with the Packers travelling fans. Looking out to next year, would Tampa want to give up a game? Houston? Indy? I don't think the Saints or a division opponent are a possibility.
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https://www.espn.co.uk/nfl/story/_/id/28019240/green-bay-packers-visit-key-london-nfl-uk-md
So the Packers are the only team to not play in London? Didn't realize that.
The problem is the Packers will never give up a home game. And teams don't want to give up games with the Packers travelling fans. Looking out to next year, would Tampa want to give up a game? Houston? Indy? I don't think the Saints or a division opponent are a possibility.
I think Tampa would. They did this year. Jacksonville gives up one every year. Tennessee might be willing.
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https://www.espn.co.uk/nfl/story/_/id/28019240/green-bay-packers-visit-key-london-nfl-uk-md
So the Packers are the only team to not play in London? Didn't realize that.
The problem is the Packers will never give up a home game. And teams don't want to give up games with the Packers travelling fans. Looking out to next year, would Tampa want to give up a game? Houston? Indy? I don't think the Saints or a division opponent are a possibility.
At least that saves all the inane sports radio discussions about London from local talking heads who think a trip to Cancun is exotic. The conversation around the Bears trip every year or others makes my head explode. They talk about London like it’s Churchill era pre-WW2 at best and like another planet at worst. Praising teams for sending cases of peanut butter cause they don’t know what sort of food they can get. Or “Id like to go to London but the food is horrible I hear” because the only food in a city of nearly 10 million is fish and chips, haggis, and spotted dick.
My favorite was resident mouthbreathers Parkins and Mac agreeing that there is nothing to do in Europe but look at a few old buildings and that doesn’t take more than a long weekend as to why they’d never go back for another Bears game
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I think Tampa would. They did this year. Jacksonville gives up one every year. Tennessee might be willing.
I don't know, plenty of WI retirees in FL, back when TB was still a division opponent I knew plenty of folks that traveled to every game in TB.
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My favorite was resident mouthbreathers Parkins and Mac agreeing that there is nothing to do in Europe but look at a few old buildings and that doesn’t take more than a long weekend as to why they’d never go back for another Bears game
Mac shouldn't be allowed to leave NWI.
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https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/28023135/bears-mitchell-trubisky-wants-halas-hall-tvs-shield-criticism
Lol. Nagy blames the media. Trubby blames the media. Is this the White House or what?
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https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/28023135/bears-mitchell-trubisky-wants-halas-hall-tvs-shield-criticism
Lol. Nagy blames the media. Trubby blames the media. Is this the White House or what?
Nagy used his giant brain to help Trubisky play the greatest game ever last Sunday. If you can't see that, you are human scum.
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https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/28023135/bears-mitchell-trubisky-wants-halas-hall-tvs-shield-criticism
Lol. Nagy blames the media. Trubby blames the media. Is this the White House or what?
Politics
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Sustained.
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https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/28023135/bears-mitchell-trubisky-wants-halas-hall-tvs-shield-criticism
Lol. Nagy blames the media. Trubby blames the media. Is this the White House or what?
This has been breathtaking. It’s a case study in setting every ounce of goodwill you earned on fire in less than half a season. Most Bears fans I know have went from frustrated to “f these guys” as not only are the on field results crap, there is no accountability, a lack of leadership from anyone, and not even a whiff that this could turn around. Mitch doesn’t haven’t it, and that’s whatever. But Nagy has been an utter tool for the last month and that’s as pathetic as the first half of the Eagles game
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https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/28023135/bears-mitchell-trubisky-wants-halas-hall-tvs-shield-criticism
Lol. Nagy blames the media. Trubby blames the media.
Mentally weak.
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That kind of thing isn't going to lead to less criticism, that's for sure.
A little ownership would go a long way in Halas Hall these days.
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IDK, by the time a guy gets to the level of being a head coach, you would think he could figure this stuff out by now. Nagy shouldn't need his boss or an owner to tell him to stop acting like this.
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It's actually a good thing for them to turn off the TVs and ignore the criticism.
It's a terrible thing that they're publicizing the fact they're turning off the TVs and ignoring the criticism.
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This has been breathtaking. It’s a case study in setting every ounce of goodwill you earned on fire in less than half a season. Most Bears fans I know have went from frustrated to “f these guys” as not only are the on field results crap, there is no accountability, a lack of leadership from anyone, and not even a whiff that this could turn around. Mitch doesn’t haven’t it, and that’s whatever. But Nagy has been an utter tool for the last month and that’s as pathetic as the first half of the Eagles game
Is Nagy getting close to Marc Trestman territory where he loses the team?
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It's actually a good thing for them to turn off the TVs and ignore the criticism.
It's a terrible thing that they're publicizing the fact they're turning off the TVs and ignoring the criticism.
I like this.
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Is Nagy getting close to Marc Trestman territory where he loses the team?
I’m not convinced he hasn’t already
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Gruden should be Coach of the Year. The AFC Wild Cards could very well be Bills/Raiders.
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Gruden should be Coach of the Year. The AFC Wild Cards could very well be Bills/Raiders.
Gotta admit, he has done well.
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Gotta admit, he has done well.
Considering the AB circus, this being their last year in Oakland and all that goes with it, and their talent seeming ok, he's gotten the most out of that team, guys look like they've bought in, and they're playing well. I think he's done an excellent job with play calling too this season.
Not saying much considering the opposing coach, but he shredded Nagy with his game plan against the Bears.
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Considering the AB circus, this being their last year in Oakland and all that goes with it, and their talent seeming ok, he's gotten the most out of that team, guys look like they've bought in, and they're playing well. I think he's done an excellent job with play calling too this season.
Not saying much considering the opposing coach, but he shredded Nagy with his game plan against the Bears.
what is particularly amusing is that the draft pick the Raiders will receive from the Bears from the Mack trade will almost certainly be higher than the Raiders' pick. Coming into the season that would have been unthinkable. And, the pick they received in for the 2019 draft may have gotten them a franchise RB. The Raiders may win that trade in the long run (too bad it will be in front of fans in Las Vegas).
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what is particularly amusing is that the draft pick the Raiders will receive from the Bears from the Mack trade will almost certainly be higher than the Raiders' pick. Coming into the season that would have been unthinkable. And, the pick they received in for the 2019 draft may have gotten them a franchise RB. The Raiders may win that trade in the long run (too bad it will be in front of fans in Las Vegas).
Was at the Raiders-Bears game Sunday and both fan bases were cheering for the Bears’ demise. One for the draft pick, one not to be last in the division. I think right now, the Bears would draft Around 10th....and the Raiders 2nd rounder to the Bears will be in the high 40s.
Chucky has done a great job offensively. Defense has a ways to go...although Rivers looked old last night. I think Raiders fans will travel to Vegas.
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Gruden should be Coach of the Year. The AFC Wild Cards could very well be Bills/Raiders.
Bills have beaten 0 teams with a winning record. Terrible offense. Pretty good defense. I will be surprised if they make it.
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Bills have beaten 0 teams with a winning record. Terrible offense. Pretty good defense. I will be surprised if they make it.
Games still versus Jets, Broncos, Dolphins and Browns...and the Steelers. 10 wins seem pretty assured.
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3rd and 15 at the 39. Lions pick up 3 yards to set up a 54 yard field goal attempt, but have an illegal formation penalty. Instead of accepting, making it a 3rd and 20 with the Lion’s backup quarterback in, and taking the Lions out of field goal range the Bears decline the penalty and the Lions make a field goal.
Lol.
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Don't worry about it. Playing the Lions outweighs any poor coaching decision.
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Don't worry about it. Playing the Lions outweighs any poor coaching decision.
Looks like poor coaching decisions on both sides.
Bears have one wide receiver. Maybe thing about doubling the guy on every play.
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Tarik Cohen just shushed his home crowd.
That'll win over the fans.
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With Stafford out, Detroit has zero weapons. And Patricia has shown less than Nagy as a head coach.
Detroit is giving up 450 yards a game. The Bears will end up close.
The Lions don't blitz and play almost exclusively man. Don't generate turnovers. Don't make adjustments defensively.
The team has no running game. With Stafford out, there is no hope. Time to play for draft position.
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Never mind. Lions blitz one time all game and it works. The Bears ARE almost as bad as Detroit.
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With Stafford out, Detroit has zero weapons. And Patricia has shown less than Nagy as a head coach.
Detroit is giving up 450 yards a game. The Bears will end up close.
The Lions don't blitz and play almost exclusively man. Don't generate turnovers. Don't make adjustments defensively.
The team has no running game. With Stafford out, there is no hope. Time to play for draft position.
Agree on everything. With Stafford out they should have taken more shots downfield to Golladay. Especially on 3rd downs.
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Falcons laying down a blueprint on how to beat the Saints.
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Lions gotta Lions.
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Falcons laying down a blueprint on how to beat the Saints.
A lot of people lost their suicide pool today on this one. I had a bad day...lost this one, KC, Giants, ugh.
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Awful play call.
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There’s a time to be aggressive. 2 seconds left in the half up 4 and getting the ball back is not the time. Especially when you’ve been bad down near the goal line all year.
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There’s a time to be aggressive. 2 seconds left in the half up 4 and getting the ball back is not the time. Especially when you’ve been bad down near the goal line all game.
I was screaming “kick it” at the TV.
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There’s a time to be aggressive. 2 seconds left in the half up 4 and getting the ball back is not the time. Especially when you’ve been bad down near the goal line all year.
I don't mind the call. But I would have done play action, and then pass it to Graham in the flat.
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Radio guys were all for it because of what LaFleur was preaching about toughness all week. Didn’t work but the call wasn’t a poor one.
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McCoy blowing it up was karma.
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McCoy blowing it up was karma.
For what?
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Intentional gounding. No call.
Offensive PI. No call.
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Intentional gounding. No call.
Offensive PI. No call.
Packers have gotten some favorable calls. These things mostly even out.
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Why did Carolina go for 2 on the last touchdown.
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Why did Carolina go for 2 on the last touchdown.
Analytics.
In theory it makes sense with that much time left. You’re going to get at least 2 more possessions, so I’d you cut it to 6 you can get 2 field goals and send it to overtime. If you don’t get it you still have the chance to go for 2 and tie the game.
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Why did Carolina go for 2 on the last touchdown.
The idea is that the chances are more than 50% that you get the conversion. So you figure one out of two with the possibility of two out of two.
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It doesn't matter, but on the last play, the offensive lineman clearly grabbed and pulled Mccaffrey forward. It is a penalty to pull the ball carrier forward, why is that not called there?
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Man, I think he got in but there’s no clear video.
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The idea is that the chances are more than 50% that you get the conversion. So you figure one out of two with the possibility of two out of two.
But the statistics are a 47.9% conversion rate.
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How many unforced errors in the last 8 minutes?
1. Run play clock down and call time out.
2. Run play clock down and rush to get it off causing terrible play.
3. Run play clock down and take penalty.
4. Offsides with game on line.
5. Another offside call with game on line.
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Nads must bee lyckin' his wounds, aina?
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Man, I think he got in but there’s no clear video.
Definitely was in. But pretty sure it's illegal to pull someone in on your team so the refs called the stand.
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I dunno. Did da ball bust da plain, hey?
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This may be a dumb thing to take away from that game - but even if Kyle Allen doesn’t improve a lick, he’s going to have a long career and make a bundle of money as a top backup. He can make the throws, isn’t afraid to go over the middle, and has a good pocket presence with next level ability and willingness to throw it away if his first couple options aren’t there.
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But the statistics are a 47.9% conversion rate.
Well you have to account for missed PAT and maybe Carolina’s rate is better.
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This may be a dumb thing to take away from that game - but even if Kyle Allen doesn’t improve a lick, he’s going to have a long career and make a bundle of money as a top backup. He can make the throws, isn’t afraid to go over the middle, and has a good pocket presence with next level ability and willingness to throw it away if his first couple options aren’t there.
Dude is a damn good startin' QB write now. Won't bee no back-up anywhere and shoulda bin a top 5 draft pick. Cat can play, hey?
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Analytics.
In theory it makes sense with that much time left. You’re going to get at least 2 more possessions, so I’d you cut it to 6 you can get 2 field goals and send it to overtime. If you don’t get it you still have the chance to go for 2 and tie the game.
Interesting. I actually didn't think of this, so I thought Rivera had lost his mind. But the way you describe it, it makes some sense now. I wonder how many coaches actually woulda gone for 2 there, though.
Packers have gotten some favorable calls. These things mostly even out.
Yep. I thought the officiating kind of sucked. The call on the Rodgers hit in the EZ was brutal and they missed what should have been a facemask on a defender grabbing Allen; both were huge plays that hurt the Panthers badly. But there was a brutal offensive interference call on the Packers early, and a couple other questionable calls against them, as well. Life in the NFL; those guys have no effen clue.
Definitely was in. But pretty sure it's illegal to pull someone in on your team so the refs called the stand.
I wanted that football to break the plane of the goal line as much as anybody who isn't actually part of the Panthers' organization, but I never saw one angle that showed the ball breaking the plane of the goal line. Oh well. I actually liked the call. Give the ball to your best player.
Nads must bee lyckin' his wounds, aina?
Nope. It's sports. Crud happens.
I wanted the Panthers to win but my guys needed to play an almost perfect game. Terrible INT by Allen in the EZ. Terrible lost fumble. Terrible run defense most of the game. I didn't hear Kuechly's name called on a single defensive play. The Panthers just didn't quite play well enough.
But despite some pretty serious injuries (including the Panthers' best CB not being able to play), despite being on the road in the snow against a good team that was motivated by a bad loss in its previous game, and despite having to use an undrafted QB who barely played in college and who is improving but obviously still learning on the fly, the Panthers came within a few inches of having a chance to tie on the final play of regulation.
No banners for "almost," but my guys acquitted themselves well, and I still think this can be a successful season.
I will confess to jumping off the recliner and screaming an expletive at the TV on that call against McCoy, though.
Oh ... and one more thing ...
Saints better without Brees................................
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This may be a dumb thing to take away from that game - but even if Kyle Allen doesn’t improve a lick, he’s going to have a long career and make a bundle of money as a top backup. He can make the throws, isn’t afraid to go over the middle, and has a good pocket presence with next level ability and willingness to throw it away if his first couple options aren’t there.
I agree he looked pretty good today - but you gotta consider he was going against one of the worst defenses in the league. Every QB this side of Trubisky has looked pretty good.
I think it was a great call to put Newton on IR and let the kid play the rest of the year. They need to know if he is at least capable of being a starter. The decision will have huge financial ramifications for Carolina's future - whether thy have to sink $25 million a year into the position.
I would warn, however, that rookie QBs who look good don't always translate to the 2nd year when coordinators have lots of tape to look at.
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I agree he looked pretty good today - but you gotta consider he was going against one of the worst defenses in the league. Every QB this side of Trubisky has looked pretty good.
Whadda ya talking about? Trubisky was great for about 15 minutes.
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Whadda ya talking about? Trubisky was great for about 15 minutes.
Total for the year?
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I agree he looked pretty good today - but you gotta consider he was going against one of the worst defenses in the league. Every QB this side of Trubisky has looked pretty good.
I think it was a great call to put Newton on IR and let the kid play the rest of the year. They need to know if he is at least capable of being a starter. The decision will have huge financial ramifications for Carolina's future - whether thy have to sink $25 million a year into the position.
I would warn, however, that rookie QBs who look good don't always translate to the 2nd year when coordinators have lots of tape to look at.
I wasn’t impressed by the stuff having tape on you can change. He had a ton of poise in the pocket. Got rid of the ball wisely and quickly when needed. The play on the last drive where he pulled up at the LOS and stayed behind to make a throw was a veteran heady play. He just seemed very poised in rough conditions and big moments. He’s not an all star and he’s not perfect, but I think he looked really promising
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Unlike I'm guessing the rest of y'all here, who have no reason to subject yourselves to Carolina Panthers football on a weekly basis, I have seen every snap of Kyle Allen's NFL career.
PROS:
He has guts. He has nice touch on his throws. He is pretty good at sidestepping or ducking under the rush when it's in front of him. His arm is strong enough for the NFL. He has made some crazy-good plays even in games in which he has not played that well.
CONS:
He doesn't have good pocket awareness -- the sense the good QBs have that a defender is bearing down on them. He locks in on a receiver and throws even if defenders are there. He does not have good wheels. He is not a very good decision maker. He often fails to see open receivers, partly because he does not see the whole field well. After being quite accurate his first few games, he has been much less so the last few, throwing 5 INTs the last 3 games. He has lost a half-dozen fumbles.
A lot of the cons, hopefully, will be solved gradually as he gains experience. He barely played in college, and he wasn't even on an NFL active roster a year ago. He seems to be willing and able to learn.
I am assuming Cam Newton has played his last game as a Panther. If Allen keeps progressing this season, I will feel pretty darn good about going into 2020 with him as my QB. The Panthers drafted an outstanding college passer from West Virginia, Will Grier, in the 3rd round (100th overall) last season, so they hopefully have a second young QB who will be brought along slowly, too. There are NFL teams with worse situations at the position.
But Allen does have to keep getting better, because his flaws -- especially those involving taking care of the football, seeing the field and making good decisions -- are pretty big right now. I know that Cam is a polarizing figure, and lots of people "hate" him, but for 5, 6, 7 years he was a special QB. Allen probably will never be that. Nevertheless, this Panthers fan is optimistic about his future.
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Whadda ya talking about? Trubisky was great for about 15 minutes.
He was going against the worst defense in the league.
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This may be a dumb thing to take away from that game - but even if Kyle Allen doesn’t improve a lick, he’s going to have a long career and make a bundle of money as a top backup. He can make the throws, isn’t afraid to go over the middle, and has a good pocket presence with next level ability and willingness to throw it away if his first couple options aren’t there.
if i were a bear fan, i'd take him over trubisky right now!! his fumble was his worst blunder. throws a nice ball, sees the field well, great mobility...
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Definitely was in. But pretty sure it's illegal to pull someone in on your team so the refs called the stand.
No. not definitely in. Go look again, not even close. You do know the ball has to cross the plane not his helmet.
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Pros
Cam has better outfits than Allen
Cons
Cam has worse outfits than Allen
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I wasn’t impressed by the stuff having tape on you can change. He had a ton of poise in the pocket. Got rid of the ball wisely and quickly when needed. The play on the last drive where he pulled up at the LOS and stayed behind to make a throw was a veteran heady play. He just seemed very poised in rough conditions and big moments. He’s not an all star and he’s not perfect, but I think he looked really promising
I agree, Wags. He showed a lot of NFL skills today.
But, I just look at guys like Mayfield and see how they get worse with more tape. Same for Trubisky in his 2nd full season as the starter.
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He was going against the worst defense in the league.
That's right. Aren't you a long suffering Lions fan tower?
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I agree, Wags. He showed a lot of NFL skills today.
But, I just look at guys like Mayfield and see how they get worse with more tape. Same for Trubisky in his 2nd full season as the starter.
Mayfield and Trubisky have terrible head coaches.
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I commend LaFleur for giving more snaps to Lazard and Kumerow at the expense of Scantling and Allison.
Scantling is a one-trick pony and Allison is no better than a 5th WR.
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if i were a bear fan, i'd take him over trubisky right now!! his fumble was his worst blunder. throws a nice ball, sees the field well, great mobility...
His worst blunder, by far, was throwing an INT in the EZ, costing the Panthers a sure 3 points.
He doesn't see the field very well. Aikman specifically pointed at a couple of plays in which his tunnel vision cost (or could have cost) the Panthers dearly -- the aforementioned INT, and another pass that should have been a Pick-6 but the DB dropped it
He absolutely does not have great mobility. Many, many, many QBs, including Trubisky, have far superior running skills. Those who have seen him all season consider him more of a plodder than a runner. He isn't bad at sidestepping pressure in the pocket, though.
I don't mean to sound like I dislike Allen, because I don't. He's actually been a revelation. But y'all have seen him play one game against a mediocre defensive team. I have seen every snap he has taken.
I am encouraged that he could have a future as a long-term NFL starter, but as out-of-nowhere stories go, he isn't Kurt Warner yet. He isn't even Jake Delhomme yet. We'll see.
Pros
Cam has better outfits than Allen
Cons
Cam has worse outfits than Allen
Saints better without Brees....
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The Panthers drafted an outstanding college passer from West Virginia, Will Grier, in the 3rd round (100th overall) last season, so they hopefully have a second young QB who will be brought along slowly, too. There are NFL teams with worse situations at the position.
FWIW, Grier is older than Allen by a full year. He was old as a college freshman before taking all 5 years.
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FWIW, Grier is older than Allen by a full year. He was old as a college freshman before taking all 5 years.
Yessir.
Obviously, the Panthers were pretty high on him as a prospect, though folks who were at training camp said he was quite inconsistent there. And he mostly sucked in preseason games. So I'm sure hoping Allen stays healthy.
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Hey Mikey, any experts saying Saints better without Brees? More than a decent amount of sportswriters and NFL prognosticators have said Panthers better off without Newton at this point. I realize alll love affairs with QBs have to come to an end...it is ok. Newton will have a better career, may go to the HOF, Allen won’t...it’s about what Cam has done lately...I know it hurts big guy..I know it hurts. It’s ok, time heals all wounds.
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Hey Mikey, any experts saying Saints better without Brees? More than a decent amount of sportswriters and NFL prognosticators have said Panthers better off without Newton at this point. I realize alll love affairs with QBs have to come to an end...it is ok. Newton will have a better career, may go to the HOF, Allen won’t...it’s about what Cam has done lately...I know it hurts big guy..I know it hurts. It’s ok, time heals all wounds.
Saints better without Brees....
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Saints better without Brees...
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Saints better without Brees...
https://youtu.be/x0kZNiAUGpg
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Saints 2-3 in their last 5 games started by Drew Brees. Saints 5-0 in their last 5 games started by Teddy Bridgewater. Pretty damning. Saints better without Brees...
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Saints better without Brees....
https://www.mtairynews.com/opinion/78982/newton-is-no-more-than-average
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Saints 2-3 in their last 5 games started by Drew Brees. Saints 5-0 in their last 5 games started by Teddy Bridgewater. Pretty damning. Saints better without Brees...
Cam had McCaffrey run for 130 yards in the opening game and still lost at home. Kamala today, 24 yards rushing.
Panthers haven’t won a game with Cam QB in over a year. Saints won just last week.
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https://www.mtairynews.com/opinion/78982/newton-is-no-more-than-average
Why are you changing the subject? Oh wait. Stupid question. It's what you do.
The ellipsis at the end of my sentence fragment obvious meant there was more to come. And anybody with even half a brain knew exactly what I meant by "Saints better without Brees...."
"The New Orleans Saints are better without Drew Brees performing at a substandard level. If Brees is going to be substandard, it would be better if an undefeated New Orleans quarterback such as Teddy Bridgewater, when healthy, could guide the Saints."
I mean, duh!
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https://www.mtairynews.com/opinion/78982/newton-is-no-more-than-average
Guys, the news editor from the heavy hitting Mt Airy News has spoken. Argument over.
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Guys, the news editor from the heavy hitting Mt Airy News has spoken. Argument over.
Not only that, but everyone knows that "Saints better without Brees" clearly meant, "Saints better without Brees getting sacked 6 times."
Because when you make a dopey statement, it's ok as long as you tack on an ellipsis. That way, when you're called on it, you can justify it by claiming everybody should have known you obviously meant something else. Because ... you know ... ellipsis.
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Analytics.
In theory it makes sense with that much time left. You’re going to get at least 2 more possessions, so I’d you cut it to 6 you can get 2 field goals and send it to overtime. If you don’t get it you still have the chance to go for 2 and tie the game.
Rivera indeed said it was analytics, but not for the reason above.
“That was purely analytics, 100 percent. The thing is, if you get it there and you score at the end, then you’re kicking to win the game. If you don’t get it there, you get an opportunity to go for two again, which we felt pretty good about the play we had called the first time and we felt good about having the second one. It most certainly was just following the analytics of it.”
I disagree with that thinking. And I continue to wonder if most NFL or college coaches would have gone for 2 there.
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Guys, the news editor from the heavy hitting Mt Airy News has spoken. Argument over.
That article was hard to read with all the dog whistling going on in the background.
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Rivera indeed said it was analytics, but not for the reason above.
“That was purely analytics, 100 percent. The thing is, if you get it there and you score at the end, then you’re kicking to win the game. If you don’t get it there, you get an opportunity to go for two again, which we felt pretty good about the play we had called the first time and we felt good about having the second one. It most certainly was just following the analytics of it.”
I disagree with that thinking. And I continue to wonder if most NFL or college coaches would have gone for 2 there.
Most NFL coaches would not. I personally like it. With 6 minutes I'd probably kick the field goal as all you have left after that is 1 more possession. With 11 minutes left you're almost certainly getting 2 more possessions so if you get it you can kick a field goal on your next possession and be within a field goal to tie the game. And as he says, if you don't get it you still can go for 2 again after the next touchdown you need to get.
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As a Packers fan, I hate that he went for two and gave them a chance to win in regulation. That probably means it was the right decision. I thought it was smart. You're the underdog on the road, give yourself a chance to win without OT.
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As a Packers fan, I hate that he went for two and gave them a chance to win in regulation. That probably means it was the right decision. I thought it was smart. You're the underdog on the road, give yourself a chance to win without OT.
That was my thinking, as well.
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As a Packers fan, I hate that he went for two and gave them a chance to win in regulation. That probably means it was the right decision. I thought it was smart. You're the underdog on the road, give yourself a chance to win without OT.
Sure. But if you just kick the PAT, you're down 7. And then if you score on the last play of regulation, you can assess things and decide then if you want to try to win in regulation or go into OT.
Not necessarily saying one is "right" or "wrong," just that kicking with 11 minutes to go wouldn't stop you from going for the regulation win later.
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Sure. But if you just kick the PAT, you're down 7. And then if you score on the last play of regulation, you can assess things and decide then if you want to try to win in regulation or go into OT.
Not necessarily saying one is "right" or "wrong," just that kicking with 11 minutes to go wouldn't stop you from going for the regulation win later.
With the weather the way it was, I don’t know that a PAT was an automatic. That would make the percentages lean even more towards going for 2 there.
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With the weather the way it was, I don’t know that a PAT was an automatic. That would make the percentages lean even more towards going for 2 there.
At the time, after I spent a minute scratching my head in disbelief, I actually thought what you just said might be what Rivera was thinking. But that's not what he said afterward.
And of course, if he misses that PAT, you still have a chance to tie with a TD and 2 point conversion.
It's an interesting discussion.
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Guys, the news editor from the heavy hitting Mt Airy News has spoken. Argument over.
Happy to provide others...one was CBS. ESPN another...many others.
https://www.ibtimes.com/nfl-rumors-panthers-team-game-proving-better-without-cam-newton-2845668
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That article was hard to read with all the dog whistling going on in the background.
LOL...yeah...that must be it...cannot say anything bad about a QB that hasn’t won in a year if that QB is of a certain race, creed, religion, etc...check.
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Not sure why you keep arguing with yourself, hoopy.
You yourself said at least a half dozen times that a healthy Cam Newton is great, and that the Panthers are only better without him when he's hurt. Are you changing your tune now? Are you saying that even if Cam were 100% healthy, the Panthers would be better without him?
Are you denying that Saints better without Brees.... is not every bit as true as
Panthers better without Cam....? Didn't you claim that the truth of such statements obviously depend upon what the writer is implying with the ellipsis?
Bama better without Tua....
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Happy to provide others...one was CBS. ESPN another...many others.
https://www.ibtimes.com/nfl-rumors-panthers-team-game-proving-better-without-cam-newton-2845668
This article doesn't say what you claimed it does.
Shocking, I know.
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San Fran coach challenges on spot on 4th down. Ices his own kicker who shanks it as bad as you possibly can. Not sure if it was a great idea to challenge the spot and let the rookie ponder the biggest kick in his entire life for a couple minutes.
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This article doesn't say what you claimed it does.
Shocking, I know.
Sure. It. Does.
But hey, if you don’t like that one...plenty more that state what I have...healthy Allen better than unhealthy Newton. Panthers better off in that situation.
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San Fran coach challenges on spot on 4th down. Ices his own kicker who shanks it as bad as you possibly can. Not sure if it was a great idea to challenge the spot and let the rookie ponder the biggest kick in his entire life for a couple minutes.
Maybe, but if they get that reversal it is a first down and you get keep running plays to get closer. Seattle iced him as well.
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Sure. It. Does.
But hey, if you don’t like that one...plenty more that state what I have...healthy Allen better than unhealthy Newton. Panthers better off in that situation.
If that’s what you had said not one person would disagree with you. What’s funny is that you believe you have some superior football knowledge to everyone because you “stated” that when you didn’t state that at all.
Pretzel Cheeks is at it again!
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San Fran coach challenges on spot on 4th down. Ices his own kicker who shanks it as bad as you possibly can. Not sure if it was a great idea to challenge the spot and let the rookie ponder the biggest kick in his entire life for a couple minutes.
Challenges in OT are ref-initiated
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Challenges in OT are ref-initiated
Did not know that. Makes more sense. Thank you for the information.
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Saturday's Kaepernick "tryout" looks like a pretty brazen, pathetic PR stunt by the NFL.
I hope I'm wrong and he gets a legit shot, but I doubt it.
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Stafford has fractures in his back. Detroit needs a quarterback. May as well sign him. He is magnitudes better than what they have with Stafford out.
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Saturday's Kaepernick "tryout" looks like a pretty brazen, pathetic PR stunt by the NFL.
I hope I'm wrong and he gets a legit shot, but I doubt it.
I just don't understand why the NFL would do this now. Kaepernick is largely out of the headlines, so why would you stage and promote a tryout on a Saturday during the middle of the season? Especially when things seem to be going well for the League right now? Now he's back with all the PR baggage that entails. I don't get it.
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I just don't understand why the NFL would do this now. Kaepernick is largely out of the headlines, so why would you stage and promote a tryout on a Saturday during the middle of the season? Especially when things seem to be going well for the League right now? Now he's back with all the PR baggage that entails. I don't get it.
Maybe they see it as a win-win? If he blows everybody away at his tryout, somebody signs him and they say, "See, we're woke!" If he sucks, they say, "See, he can't play anyway." And if others claim he did well but still wasn't signed, they say, "But at least our teams know what to expect now in case one wants to sign him."
I agree that the timing is very strange, and I agree with those who say it looks like some kind of weird PR stunt.
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Maybe they figure Trump won't be interested because he's distracted by the impeachment inquiry. The Trumpian version of the 5 pm Friday news dump
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Maybe they see it as a win-win? If he blows everybody away at his tryout, somebody signs him and they say, "See, we're woke!" If he sucks, they say, "See, he can't play anyway." And if others claim he did well but still wasn't signed, they say, "But at least our teams know what to expect now in case one wants to sign him."
I agree that the timing is very strange, and I agree with those who say it looks like some kind of weird PR stunt.
Its classic NFL ham-fisted bad PR. Release something, then don't control the details coming out that make them look bad, then make it a he said, she said issue. Its just all a mess.
The most logical take I saw was that it was arranged by a team, likely on a bye week, that wanted a look at Kap without having to deal with blowback from the announcement of a tryout. Its one thing to deal with it when you sign him, but another before you even know what you may have. I think its dumb, but I can see the logic in it.
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Its classic NFL ham-fisted bad PR. Release something, then don't control the details coming out that make them look bad, then make it a he said, she said issue. Its just all a mess.
The most logical take I saw was that it was arranged by a team, likely on a bye week, that wanted a look at Kap without having to deal with blowback from the announcement of a tryout. Its one thing to deal with it when you sign him, but another before you even know what you may have. I think its dumb, but I can see the logic in it.
Packers going for Kaep so he can't burn them in the Playoffs.
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FWIW, NFL now says 11 teams have committed to attend Kaepernick's workout - Arizona, Atlanta, Cleveland, Denver, Detroit, Miami, New England, Jets, Giants, Tampa Bay and Washington.
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Maybe they figure Trump won't be interested because he's distracted by the impeachment inquiry. The Trumpian version of the 5 pm Friday news dump
You got your plug in again...congrats
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Myles Garrett should be done for the year.
What a piece of excrement.
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Myles Garrett should be done for the year.
What a piece of excrement.
Agreed, at least the year.
Pouncey needs to be suspended for a few too. I know he was defending a teammate. But kicking a guy in the head when on the ground is over the top.
Rudolph should've actually be kicked out of this game too, for trying to rip off Garrett's helmet.
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Agreed, at least the year.
Pouncey needs to be suspended for a few too. I know he was defending a teammate. But kicking a guy in the head when on the ground is over the top.
He'll get a suspension, but there were exceptional mitigating circumstances there.
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Garrett should be suspended the rest of the season.
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He'll get a suspension, but there were exceptional mitigating circumstances there.
You are right. A one game suspension would be plenty to get the point across re. Pouncey.
Garrett though, done for at least the year. That was terrible.
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I was surprised Rudolph seemed unfazed by that helmet hit.
I'll also say that once Rudolph's helmet came off, he should have gotten out of there. I thought once that fight started, Rudolph would get hit by someone with a helmet in the course of the fight, but obviously not that way.
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You are right. A one game suspension would be plenty to get the point across re. Pouncey.
Garrett though, done for at least the year. That was terrible.
Huh....
Garrett AND Pouncey should be done for the year.
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Huh....
Garrett AND Pouncey should be done for the year.
Nah. Pouncey was acting under extreme provocation and his actions, while severe, weren't close to as dangerous as Garrett's.
Punching a guy in the facemask and taking a kick at his helmet is hardly comparable.
Garrett literally could have killed Rudolph. What Pouncey did never posed a threat of serious harm to Garrett. Equal punishment here would be a joke.
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Huh....
Garrett AND Pouncey should be done for the year.
Regarding Pouncey, I can see it both ways.
In a vacuum. Anyone that attacked a player like he did, repeatedly punching then kicking a downed player, should be done for multiple games/the year.
But Pakuni has a point regarding the mitigating circumstances. Maybe a game or two given the mitigating circumstances. I think it should be longer, but understand why it may be shorter than I'd normally expect.
Garrett's is infinitely clear. Done for the year. Honestly, he should be charged with assault and thrown in jail.
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Nah. Pouncey was acting under extreme provocation and his actions, while severe, weren't close to as dangerous as Garrett's.
Punching a guy in the facemask and taking a kick at his helmet is hardly comparable.
Garrett literally could have killed Rudolph. What Pouncey did never posed a threat of serious harm to Garrett. Equal punishment here would be a joke.
Agreed.
Garrett just faced reporters and he was contrite, but more for how it affected the Browns. He also called it "an accident."
He needs to be gone for the rest of the season, minimum. Maybe some of next season, too.
Pouncey? Maybe 2 games.
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Agreed.
Garrett just faced reporters and he was contrite, but more for how it affected the Browns. He also called it "an accident."
He needs to be gone for the rest of the season, minimum. Maybe some of next season, too.
Pouncey? Maybe 2 games.
Burfict got 12 games. He’s a ridiculously dirty player but has never done anything this bad. 16 for Garrett is fair.
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The browns will always be the browns.
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Funny, just Wednesday night when my son and I were talking about the game and about the Browns' playoff chances going forward (because of a very easy schedule), I commented, "well at least Garrett seems to have calmed down and gotten his crap together." Yeah...about that.
Honestly, he should be charged with assault and thrown in jail.
In this regard, he may be fortunate that it happened in Cleveland. A local prosecutor is less likely to take a stand to make a name for him/herself than someone in Pittsburgh would have been. But it'd probably be unlikely anywhere.
Burfict got 12 games. He’s a ridiculously dirty player but has never done anything this bad. 16 for Garrett is fair.
I also think Garrett's is worse, but I'd be a bit surprised if he gets a longer suspension than Burfict. The league made it clear that Burfict's suspension was largely because he had so many prior suspensions. That said, placing the two incidents side by side, I think Garrett's is unquestionably worse. And that's coming from someone who thought Burfict's was really bad and absolutely warranted the suspension it received.
But I'm a Browns fan. It might just be wishful thinking that it'll only be the remainder of the season. I really was hoping that he had things under control.
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Honestly, I just saw the clip and don't yet know the entire backstory. But it is fair to think that when you beat a defenseless guy upside his head with his own helmet that criminal charges might be in play? Holy crap already.
Edit: Okay, watched some more. While the kicking was out of line, those O lineman had a duty to take Garrett out in whatever way was necessary including punches, etc. There was no other line of defense at that moment. Their QB had just been assaulted. And yes, criminal charges are in order. If that happened in a bar fight Garrett would be in cuffs and going to jail. Guaranteed.
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While the two Steelers linemen were whupping Garrett, a second Browns player, 305-pound lineman Larry Ogunjobi, shoved Rudolph to the ground. At the time, Rudolph was not in the altercation involving Garrett and the two Pittsburgh linemen, was just standing there defenseless, without a helmet (obviously) and had his back to Ogunjobi.
Ogunjobi deserves a game or two suspension as well ... though maybe that was "an accident," too.
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This ain't going to go well for the Cleveland football Browns.
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I think if he gets a suspension for the remainder of the season -- which would be the longest suspension ever for a single on-field action -- the NFLPA would "go through the motions" and oppose it. But they wouldn't fight too hard, and I doubt the NFL would relent. If they suspend him into next year, I think the union might actually fight that for real.
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I think if he gets a suspension for the remainder of the season -- which would be the longest suspension ever for a single on-field action -- the NFLPA would "go through the motions" and oppose it. But they wouldn't fight too hard, and I doubt the NFL would relent. If they suspend him into next year, I think the union might actually fight that for real.
I say give him the longer suspension and let the union fight it. The end result probably would be only for the remainder of the season, but the NFL would have sent a good message.
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That one is pretty unforgivable.
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Criminal charges are always tricky in these situations because by playing the game, you're consenting to violence being done against you. Much of what occurs during a football game would be a crime if it occurred on the street or in a bar.
That said, the argument for charges here is that what Garrett did was so far outside the accepted violence of the game that the presumed consent no longer exists. That's been the case in a couple of NHL assaults (McSorely, Bertuzzi).
Still, as was mentioned earlier, this was in Cleveland, and I'm not sure a Cleveland prosecutor is going to see any upside in getting involved here.
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Criminal charges are always tricky in these situations because by playing the game, you're consenting to violence being done against you. Much of what occurs during a football game would be a crime if it occurred on the street or in a bar.
That said, the argument for charges here is that what Garrett did was so far outside the accepted violence of the game that the presumed consent no longer exists. That's been the case in a couple of NHL assaults (McSorely, Bertuzzi).
Still, as was mentioned earlier, this was in Cleveland, and I'm not sure a Cleveland prosecutor is going to see any upside in getting involved here.
I just heard that lawyers are already involved.
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I just heard that lawyers are already involved.
That's not the least bit surprising. We'll see if the Cleveland and/or Ohio prosecutors have any stomach to bring charges.
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Josina Anderson of ESPN defending Garrett’s actions and bringing race into is a special look....that tweet was deleted but she’s getting called out viciously for that take.
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Josina Anderson of ESPN defending Garrett’s actions and bringing race into is a special look....that tweet was deleted but she’s getting called out viciously for that take.
Yeah, that's not what she said, but we're all stunned that you're going there.
Please don't ruin yet another thread.
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Yeah, that's not what she said, but we're all stunned that you're going there.
Please don't ruin yet another thread.
Yeah, she said it and deleted it....why did she delete it....and why are you not stunned that she went their? The hypocrisy continues.
The fact that she even remotely defended his actions and the reason why made up in her head...simply astonishing.
She has gone down this path before, as have a few of her colleagues, in the past. That is why she is being called out for it.
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Josina Anderson of ESPN defending Garrett’s actions and bringing race into is a special look....that tweet was deleted but she’s getting called out viciously for that take.
Here is her actual tweet:
"I would bet Myles Garrett will say he heard Mason Rudolph call him something egregious. Never seen Garrett act like that, ever."
You are placing your own spin on her words, that she has deleted.
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Just can't help himself.
Sad.
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Funny, just Wednesday night when my son and I were talking about the game and about the Browns' playoff chances going forward (because of a very easy schedule), I commented, "well at least Garrett seems to have calmed down and gotten his crap together." Yeah...about that.
Garrett is such a puzzling enigma. A very quirky, intelligent, and cerebral guy off the field, but he has more than a few dirty notches under his belt before this. Just is a bit off.
Saying that Rudolph called him something "egregious" doesn't really fly given even his teammates like would have likely had some sort of reaction to it. Pouncey went over the line, and I'm not the biggest fan of his, but he was in protection mode and if I was a Steeler fan, I wouldn't have much issue with it.
The WORST takes I saw last night, and I'm sure Cowherd will try to parrot something similar, was ripping Baker for lightweight condemning Garrett in his postgame interview. Saying he can expect a lot of "look out" blocking in future games and that he lost the locker room by not supporting his guy. I mean, what? How can you even defend that there? He was diplomatic in his responses, spoke more to the damage it does to the team as a whole. People are morons.
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We’re back to unhinged cheeks.
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hoopaloop gonna hoopaloop.
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Criminal charges are always tricky in these situations because by playing the game, you're consenting to violence being done against you. Much of what occurs during a football game would be a crime if it occurred on the street or in a bar.
That said, the argument for charges here is that what Garrett did was so far outside the accepted violence of the game that the presumed consent no longer exists. That's been the case in a couple of NHL assaults (McSorely, Bertuzzi).
Still, as was mentioned earlier, this was in Cleveland, and I'm not sure a Cleveland prosecutor is going to see any upside in getting involved here.
It isn't unprecedented. Dino Ciccarelli was charged and convicted of assault for using his stick to bash an opponent over the head during a game. However, these charges were brought in the city Ciccarelli was playing as a visiting opponent, not as a home player. You nail the legal principle involved here - actions outside of the accepted violence of the game. One can find plenty of examples of charges being brought in recreational games when someone crosses the line.
https://www.si.com/vault/1988/09/05/118323/north-star-on-ice-minnesotas-dino-ciccarelli-went-to-jail-for-assaulting-a-player-during-an-nhl-game
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While the two Steelers linemen were whupping Garrett, a second Browns player, 305-pound lineman Larry Ogunjobi, shoved Rudolph to the ground. At the time, Rudolph was not in the altercation involving Garrett and the two Pittsburgh linemen, was just standing there defenseless, without a helmet (obviously) and had his back to Ogunjobi.
Ogunjobi deserves a game or two suspension as well ... though maybe that was "an accident," too.
Ogunjobi's spin was that he saw his "brother" getting beat up and rushed in to defend him. The video says otherwise. If he was rushing in to help Garrett (assuming he did not see what precipitated the melee) there was still no reason to do what he did to Rudolph.
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Ogunjobi's spin was that he saw his "brother" getting beat up and rushed in to defend him. The video says otherwise. If he was rushing in to help Garrett (assuming he did not see what precipitated the melee) there was still no reason to do what he did to Rudolph.
Correct.
Suspend him.
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We’re back to unhinged cheeks.
"Back to"? He never leaves. This is what the guy is. Unable to function like an adult, thus a dozen bans or whatever the number is now.
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NFL announced initial suspensions (https://twitter.com/Rachel__Nichols/status/1195386176246448128)...but still looking into it.
Garrett - indefinitely (remainder of regular season and playoffs at minimum)
Pouncey - three games
Ogunjobi - one game
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NFL announced initial suspensions (https://twitter.com/Rachel__Nichols/status/1195386176246448128)...but still looking into it.
Garrett - indefinitely (remainder of regular season and playoffs at minimum)
Pouncey - three games
Ogunjobi - one game
No argument from me. That feels like a decent start on this by the NFL. We'll see if Garrett faces criminal or civil liability.
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He shouldn't face criminal charges and my guess is that NFL players agree not to sue one another as part of their contract.
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No argument from me. That feels like a decent start on this by the NFL. We'll see if Garrett faces criminal or civil liability.
I'd think it's unlikely that he'll face either. While I agree that there's a strong argument to be made that Garrett's actions were well beyond what NFL players consent to when they step onto the field, I'd be surprised if anyone pursues it. If Rudolph had been injured, it would be a completely different story. And I fail to see how he'd have any civil liability to anyone. Again, if Rudolph had been injured (i.e., suffered damages) he'd have a case. Absolutely it was a battery, but I just don't see him bringing the case.
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I'd think it's unlikely that he'll face either. While I agree that there's a strong argument to be made that Garrett's actions were well beyond what NFL players consent to when they step onto the field, I'd be surprised if anyone pursues it. If Rudolph had been injured, it would be a completely different story. And I fail to see how he'd have any civil liability to anyone. Again, if Rudolph had been injured (i.e., suffered damages) he'd have a case. Absolutely it was a battery, but I just don't see him bringing the case.
That's how I pretty much see it too. Garrett is fortunate Rudolph wasn't injured.
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That's how I pretty much see it too. Garrett is fortunate Rudolph wasn't injured.
And it's ironic that we're having this conversation about suspensions/fines around an ugly incident in garbage time in which nobody was injured, when there was a pretty vicious hit earlier in the game that left a player concussed and bleeding from his ear. It's a proverbial "Man Bites Dog!" situation where we're talking about one situation because it's unusual, but there was a really disturbing but all-too-common incident earlier in the game that has been largely overshadowed.
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hoopaloop gonna hoopaloop.
trolls gonna troll, the most beneficial light to evaluate him in is that he just delights in getting a rise out of people by detonating threads.
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And it's ironic that we're having this conversation about suspensions/fines around an ugly incident in garbage time in which nobody was injured, when there was a pretty vicious hit earlier in the game that left a player concussed and bleeding from his ear. It's a proverbial "Man Bites Dog!" situation where we're talking about one situation because it's unusual, but there was a really disturbing but all-too-common incident earlier in the game that has been largely overshadowed.
You talking about that hit in the secondary? What I don't know because I didn't watch the game is whether bad blood had been brewing the entire contest. There's no doubt that on that last play Rudolph was initially grabbing at Garrett's helmet. Not at all saying he deserved what he got but one can at least understand why Garrett was angry. Anyway, it's going to cost a few guys a helluva lot of money, minimum.
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You talking about that hit in the secondary? What I don't know because I didn't watch the game is whether bad blood had been brewing the entire contest. There's no doubt that on that last play Rudolph was initially grabbing at Garrett's helmet. Not at all saying he deserved what he got but one can at least understand why Garrett was angry. Anyway, it's going to cost a few guys a helluva lot of money, minimum.
He was grabbing at Garrett's helmet because well after he threw the ball, in a game that was over and Garrett shouldn't have even been in the game, Garrett continued to drag him to the ground.
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He shouldn't face criminal charges and my guess is that NFL players agree not to sue one another as part of their contract.
that's up to the prosecutor, not the players.
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He was grabbing at Garrett's helmet because well after he threw the ball, in a game that was over and Garrett shouldn't have even been in the game, Garrett continued to drag him to the ground.
I'm not defending Garrett in the least. The whole incident escalated to a Holy Crap moment as we've all discussed.
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that's up to the prosecutor, not the players.
Criminal charges would be up to the prosecutor's office
A civil claim would be up to the player.
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@RapSheet: #Steelers QB Mason Rudolph won’t take legal action against #Browns DE Myles Garrett after last night’s melee, source said. Rudolph considers the situation to be exclusively an NFL matter.
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Criminal charges would be up to the prosecutor's office
A civil claim would be up to the player.
Purely anecdotal and not suggestive of what will be done here: there were no legal charges of any sort in Albert Haynesworth's stomping incident.
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Criminal charges would be up to the prosecutor's office
A civil claim would be up to the player.
Right, but the comment was involved criminal charges
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Here is her actual tweet:
"I would bet Myles Garrett will say he heard Mason Rudolph call him something egregious. Never seen Garrett act like that, ever."
You are placing your own spin on her words, that she has deleted.
https://www.prosportsdaily.com/articles/josina-anderson-implied-in-a-now-deleted-tweet-that-mason-rudolph-said-something-racist-to-myles-garrett-600168.html
https://www.sportsgossip.com/josina-anderson-implied-in-a-now-deleted-tweet-that-mason-rudolph-said-something-racist-to-myles-garrett/
https://dailysnark.com/espns-josina-anderson-deletes-tweet-implying-that-mason-rudolph-called-myles-garrett-a-racial-slur/
https://www.totalprosports.com/2019/11/15/espns-josina-anderson-gets-blasted-for-implying-mason-rudolph-said-something-racist-to-myles-garrett-tweets/
https://thespun.com/nfl/myles-garrett-mason-rudolph-helmet-josina-anderson-tweet
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We’re back to unhinged cheeks.
LOL.
A lot of people viewed her remarks that way because of her history of remarks. You believe what you want, she realized how stupid they were and deleted them and has been called out all day for it.
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LOL.
A lot of people viewed her remarks that way because of her history of remarks. You believe what you want, she realized how stupid they were and deleted them and has been called out all day for it.
Thankfully I’m an independent thinker and don’t need journalists to tell me what I should think of a Tweet. I read the Tweet. She was not implying what you claimed she was.
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@RapSheet: #Steelers QB Mason Rudolph won’t take legal action against #Browns DE Myles Garrett after last night’s melee, source said. Rudolph considers the situation to be exclusively an NFL matter.
I’m sure Rudolph was told it isn’t something he could win. To win, he would have to prove damages. There were none unless in the future he claims PTSD. Also, there is the fact that Rudolph was the attacker here. He went after Garrett and then Garrett hit him with the helmet
I don’t say this to justify what Garrett did. He got the proper punishment.
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https://www.prosportsdaily.com/articles/josina-anderson-implied-in-a-now-deleted-tweet-that-mason-rudolph-said-something-racist-to-myles-garrett-600168.html
https://www.sportsgossip.com/josina-anderson-implied-in-a-now-deleted-tweet-that-mason-rudolph-said-something-racist-to-myles-garrett/
https://dailysnark.com/espns-josina-anderson-deletes-tweet-implying-that-mason-rudolph-called-myles-garrett-a-racial-slur/
https://www.totalprosports.com/2019/11/15/espns-josina-anderson-gets-blasted-for-implying-mason-rudolph-said-something-racist-to-myles-garrett-tweets/
https://thespun.com/nfl/myles-garrett-mason-rudolph-helmet-josina-anderson-tweet
Congrats on citing a bunch of poorly written articles that also place their own spin on the tweet. I quoted it verbatim. Not sure what you are trying to accomplish here, except to maybe try to justify why people say you are "unhinged" at times.
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Ms. Anderson finally apologizes today, after her second absurd tweet also had people questioning her. Better late than never, but she will certainly not disappoint again with more of tweets in the future.
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Congrats on citing a bunch of poorly written articles that also place their own spin on the tweet. I quoted it verbatim. Not sure what you are trying to accomplish here, except to maybe try to justify why people say you are "unhinged" at times.
I wonder why she apologized today. LOL
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Ms. Anderson finally apologizes today, after her second absurd tweet also had people questioning her. Better late than never, but she will certainly not disappoint again with more of tweets in the future.
Stick to sports.
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I wonder why she apologized today. LOL
What is your point on all of this?
That one person on ESPN went over the top and said something idiotic? I mean, don't Doug Gottlieb, Skip Bayless and Screamin' A. Smith say stupid stuff all the time?
Are you trying to claim there's some larger conspiracy or something here, or is it just your snowflakey hyper-sensitivity as a persecuted white male that's kicking in again?
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Ms. Anderson finally apologizes today, after her second absurd tweet also had people questioning her. Better late than never, but she will certainly not disappoint again with more of tweets in the future.
I would think that you would embrace the kindred spirit of one prone to staying stupid stuff. Must be a different kind of stupid stuff.
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What is your point on all of this?
That one person on ESPN went over the top and said something idiotic? I mean, don't Doug Gottlieb, Skip Bayless and Screamin' A. Smith say stupid stuff all the time?
Are you trying to claim there's some larger conspiracy or something here, or is it just your snowflakey hyper-sensitivity as a persecuted white male that's kicking in again?
Your hypocrisy is stunning...as are those you support. That was my point in all this.
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I would think that you would embrace the kindred spirit of one prone to staying stupid stuff. Must be a different kind of stupid stuff.
Must be....I’m just glad her little siren song bull crap got called out....same nonsense from a bunch of folks, she stepped in this one...amazed she apologized.
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Thankfully I’m an independent thinker and don’t need journalists to tell me what I should think of a Tweet. I read the Tweet. She was not implying what you claimed she was.
That must be why she apologized....and of course when you connect her history of tweets.....well that is why people went there....but I am glad you are an independent thinker....lol.
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Congrats on citing a bunch of poorly written articles that also place their own spin on the tweet. I quoted it verbatim. Not sure what you are trying to accomplish here, except to maybe try to justify why people say you are "unhinged" at times.
He is trying to yet again destroy a thread, this time by trying to bring in racism, because he is an oppressed white victim. It's what the weasel does.
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He is trying to yet again destroy a thread, this time by trying to bring in racism, because he is an oppressed white victim. It's what the weasel does.
The subject was Myles Garrett incident, and part of it was why and how he acted. A prominent sports media outlet, ESPN, had one of their reporters DEFEND Garret’s actions and SHE brought this to light in the public.
Now, still waiting for you to admit you were wrong about the investing thread...why is that so hard for you...or is that you being a weasel?
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When the white male assistant GM apologizes for his inappropriate actions it’s because the PC police and SJWs but we don’t know his intent and he did nothing wrong. When the African American female apologizes it’s indisputable proof that her Tweet was inappropriate.
Yup. We’re in full unhinged mode.
Have it both ways Cheeks. It’s what you do.
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Your hypocrisy is stunning...as are those you support. That was my point in all this.
It's hypocritical to complain about hypocrisy from one viewpoint but not all viewpoints.
And for someone who is against cancel culture, you're certainly using the same logic and tactics here against her.
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Your hypocrisy is stunning...as are those you support. That was my point in all this.
Please point to one thing I said on this Myles Garrett subject that was hypocritical.
If you can, I will admit it.
If not, I accept your apology
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The whole Kaepernick work out was interesting. He skipped the official closed work out and set up one of his own making it open to the press. Dueling public relations campaigns I guess.
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The whole Kaepernick work out was interesting. He skipped the official closed work out and set up one of his own making it open to the press. Dueling public relations campaigns I guess.
It is weird. I'd like to hear more. I'm inclined to think it might have been a publicity stunt. Maybe Nike driven? More to come for sure.
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It is weird. I'd like to hear more. I'm inclined to think it might have been a publicity stunt. Maybe Nike driven? More to come for sure.
The league held it
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The whole Kaepernick work out was interesting. He skipped the official closed work out and set up one of his own making it open to the press. Dueling public relations campaigns I guess.
And wore a Kunta Kinte shirt before the event started. You cannot make this stuff up. This guy’s moral equivalency comparisons are something. He sacrificed everything you know.
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The league held it
No they didn’t. He didn’t show up for the league workout which was at Falcons training site, instead having it a high school hours later.
https://theblast.com/101426/colin-kaepernick-wore-this-controversial-t-shirt-to-his-nfl-work
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No they didn’t. He didn’t show up for the league workout which was at Falcons training site, instead having it a high school hours later.
https://theblast.com/101426/colin-kaepernick-wore-this-controversial-t-shirt-to-his-nfl-work
The league originally called it and kept changing the parameters. It was disingenuous from the start from the league.
https://twitter.com/hbryant42/status/1195833632755200001?s=21
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No they didn’t. He didn’t show up for the league workout which was at Falcons training site, instead having it a high school hours later.
https://theblast.com/101426/colin-kaepernick-wore-this-controversial-t-shirt-to-his-nfl-work
Why were you threatened by that t-shirt?
And yes, shame on him for wanting objective people there who could report on what actually happened rather than have it be behind closed doors so that a league that has blackballed him for 3 years could put their own spin on it.
Here's one report about the actual workout. Sounds like Kaepernick did well.
https://www.49erswebzone.com/articles/130807-colin-kaepernick-shows-strength-workout-which-49ers-attended/
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Detroit needs a quarterback with Stafford out. I hope they sign him. The currently available scrapings from the bottom of the barrel are not impressive.
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Detroit needs a quarterback with Stafford out. I hope they sign him. The currently available scrapings from the bottom of the barrel are not impressive.
Truly hope I'm wrong, but I will be stunned if they or any other team signs him. They'll pick up guys off the street who can't complete a 5-yard pass rather than a former Pro Bowl player who led his team to the Super Bowl and who was still pretty darn effective in an "off season" the last year he played.
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The league originally called it and kept changing the parameters. It was disingenuous from the start from the league.
https://twitter.com/hbryant42/status/1195833632755200001?s=21
No it wasn’t...as usual his way or the highway. Blasted currently for his attire again...as he should be. Wonder what socks he wore.
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No it wasn’t...as usual his way or the highway. Blasted currently for his attire again...as he should be. Wonder what socks he wore.
Triggered?
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Un-freaking-hinged.
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Rico
I have a standing meeting with the NFL every week. I talk to them usually 5 days a week between email, text and phone. On Friday we had a meeting to touch on the Garrett situation. The NFL does this for major incidents to all of their media partners...Verizon, Amazon, CBS, ESPN, etc. They have been doing this since the anthem protests because of the backlash that happens now and people taking sides. They let us know how they are handling, etc..to a degree..they obviously have to respect privacy, legal and other issues, but they are heads up calls in terms of how things will be handled.
As part of that call the Kap workout also came up. We were told it was set, would be no media, at the Falcons training camp site of which we are a major sponsor, what clubs were NOT going to be there. The NFL loves to control things, the SHIELD is protected always. They drive a very difficult bargain, and they control everything they can, but today was set in their minds. Clearly he wanted to do something different, wear whatever the hell he wanted...fine. Let’s not pretend that wasn’t his call. He was given a forum to show for scouts. He wanted a public affairs event...well, that’s what he got and I am sure his little stunt just gave a lot of NFL teams more pause...again.
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Rico
I have a standing meeting with the NFL every week. I talk to them usually 5 days a week between email, text and phone. On Friday we had a meeting to touch on the Garrett situation. The NFL does this for major incidents to all of their media partners...Verizon, Amazon, CBS, ESPN, etc. They have been doing this since the anthem protests because of the backlash that happens now and people taking sides. They let us know how they are handling, etc..to a degree..they obviously have to respect privacy, legal and other issues, but they are heads up calls in terms of how things will be handled.
As part of that call the Kap workout also came up. We were told it was set, would be no media, at the Falcons training camp site of which we are a major sponsor, what clubs were NOT going to be there. The NFL loves to control things, the SHIELD is protected always. They drive a very difficult bargain, and they control everything they can, but today was set in their minds. Clearly he wanted to do something different, wear whatever the hell he wanted...fine. Let’s not pretend that wasn’t his call. He was given a forum to show for scouts. He wanted a public affairs event...well, that’s what he got and I am sure his little stunt just gave a lot of NFL teams more pause...again.
Hope Roger Goodell let his underlings eat pizza this week.
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Your hypocrisy is stunning...as are those you support.
Still waiting either for proof of my hypocrisy in the Myles Garrett discussion or an apology from you.
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Rico
I have a standing meeting with the NFL every week. I talk to them usually 5 days a week between email, text and phone. On Friday we had a meeting to touch on the Garrett situation. The NFL does this for major incidents to all of their media partners...Verizon, Amazon, CBS, ESPN, etc. They have been doing this since the anthem protests because of the backlash that happens now and people taking sides. They let us know how they are handling, etc..to a degree..they obviously have to respect privacy, legal and other issues, but they are heads up calls in terms of how things will be handled.
As part of that call the Kap workout also came up. We were told it was set, would be no media, at the Falcons training camp site of which we are a major sponsor, what clubs were NOT going to be there. The NFL loves to control things, the SHIELD is protected always. They drive a very difficult bargain, and they control everything they can, but today was set in their minds. Clearly he wanted to do something different, wear whatever the hell he wanted...fine. Let’s not pretend that wasn’t his call. He was given a forum to show for scouts. He wanted a public affairs event...well, that’s what he got and I am sure his little stunt just gave a lot of NFL teams more pause...again.
Very cool!
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And wore a Kunta Kinte shirt before the event started. You cannot make this stuff up.
Oh no, nor that!
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...and of course when you connect her history of tweets.....
Not what is said but who said it eh?
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The NFL wanted to control the narrative. So did Kaep. Not sure what the problem is with a Kunta Kinte shirt but whatever.
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I honestly don't know, what is the issue with him wearing a Kunta Kinte shirt? Is it just a "stick to sports" thing?
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The whole Kaepernick work out was interesting. He skipped the official closed work out and set up one of his own making it open to the press. Dueling public relations campaigns I guess.
ESPN reported tonight that 24 teams were planning on attending the original practice, but with the move only eight made the workout. One might surmise that 16 teams are no longer interested because of the change of time and venue.
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ESPN reported tonight that 24 teams were planning on attending the original practice, but with the move only eight made the workout. One might surmise that 16 teams are no longer interested because of the change of time and venue.
Or one might surmise that 16 teams were completely uninterested, but were attending because the NFL asked them to. When it was moved, they said the hell with it.
Kaep's representatives say the issue was with a contract/waiver that the NFL demanded they sign, that contained language his attorneys were not ok with, and because the NFL refused to allow media to be present.
So it seems like it was staged with a contract that limited him in some way.
If that is all true, I don't blame him one bit.
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ESPN reported tonight that 24 teams were planning on attending the original practice, but with the move only eight made the workout. One might surmise that 16 teams are no longer interested because of the change of time and venue.
Those 16 teams could bring him in for a workout then!
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This is a pretty reasonable take on the whole scenario,
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/columnist/mike-jones/2019/11/17/colin-kaepernick-nfl-workout-teams-atlanta/4221683002/
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This is a pretty reasonable take on the whole scenario,
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/columnist/mike-jones/2019/11/17/colin-kaepernick-nfl-workout-teams-atlanta/4221683002/
Great article. For me, here's the critical paragraph:
'I do believe Kaepernick at least in part still wants to play — if it’s on his terms. The problem: Unless we’re self-employed, very few of us get to do our jobs on our very own terms. And even self-employed men and women have a certain code that they must adhere to.'
Both sides used each other yesterday. The divorce is now final.
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Apparently the NFL demanded that jesign a waiver not to sue the NFL in the future. Question is, did his team know of this beforehand?
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Shocking that an NFL team won't sign a mediocre scramble 32 year old quarterback who hasn't played in 3 years, who doesn't shut up, is a distraction to teammates and a complete media circus.
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Shocking that an NFL team won't sign a mediocre scramble 32 year old quarterback who hasn't played in 3 years, who doesn't shut up, is a distraction to teammates and a complete media circus.
LOL. Sure. He wasn't blackballed. He's just bad, as opposed to all the other back ups out there, and he's "uppity."
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Apparently the NFL demanded that jesign a waiver not to sue the NFL in the future. Question is, did his team know of this beforehand?
Apparently it was provided the day of. My guess is they said he would have to sign a liability waiver for "injury" but the language ended up being very broad, and included any lawsuits whatsoever. They balked at that language and the NFL said, our way or the highway.
I don't blame him at all for not signing and moving the workout. Seems like this was a sham set up by the NFL to make it look like they were working with him.
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For some, it was A-OK for the NFL to run an obvious three-ring circus (and likely scam) yesterday, and for others it was A-OK for Kaepernick to run his own circus.
As for how good, bad or mediocre he is (or was), that's up for debate.
In his last season, 2016, he ranked 17th in passer rating among qualifiers, just behind Russell Wilson, Andy Dalton and Alex Smith, and just ahead of Tyrod Taylor, Philip Rivers and Carson Palmer. He was 13th in TD% and 6th in INT%. His QBR was 21st. He also ran for 468 yards, averaging 6 yards a carry.
Statistically, he was a middle-of-the-pack QB, which certainly supports the belief of those who say he's "mediocre."
Although he had slipped some from the level he played to lead the Niners to two straight NFC title games (and a Super Bowl), IMHO he wasn't a bad QB. We've all seen "bad" QBs, and most don't throw only 4 INTs in 331 passes over 12 games.
On talent alone, he was good enough to start for some teams that do field bad QBs, and he obviously was good enough to be the No. 1 backup on pretty much any team.
With him being 3 years removed from competition, no team would sign him to start now -- even if he didn't come with a three-ring circus.
He doesn't seem the type who would accept a backup role, though I haven't seen him quoted about that either way. Meanwhile, who could blame NFL teams for wanting to avoid dealing with the circus -- as well as likely fan backlash -- for a backup-level QB?
The anthem kneeling and the activism never bothered me. But I did not like the way he made generalizations suggesting that all cops were bad, the way he wore socks depicting cops as pigs, etc. He was an imperfect spokesperson for his own cause (but then again we're all imperfect), and like the rest of us he has to deal with the consequences of his words and deeds.
It's been an interesting story, that's for sure.
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LOL. Sure. He wasn't blackballed. He's just bad, as opposed to all the other back ups out there, and he's "uppity."
He opted out of his contract with the 49ers, did many stupid things that alienated law enforcement and those that support law enforcement...but sure...don’t mention those things. He is a cherub.
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He opted out of his contract with the 49ers, did many stupid things that alienated law enforcement and those that support law enforcement...but sure...don’t mention those things. He is a cherub.
Kobe raped a woman, admitted "I understand why she thought it was rape". Played for years.
Roethlisberger has raped/assaulted a couple people...still playing.
But wear some controversial socks and kneel and you are blacklisted. Says a lot.
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Kobe raped a woman, admitted "I understand why she thought it was rape". Played for years.
Roethlisberger has raped/assaulted a couple people...still playing.
But where some controversial socks and kneel and you are blacklisted. Says a lot.
Yeah “alienated law enforcement.”
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He opted out of his contract with the 49ers, did many stupid things that alienated law enforcement and those that support law enforcement...but sure...don’t mention those things. He is a cherub.
He should have killed a woman while driving drunk like Leonard Little and Donte Stalllworth. Beat up his GF and threw her on a pile of guns like Greg Hardy. Pig socks are so much worse than those minor offenses
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SNF player introductions....my son and I have a theory that there is no better combination of picture, voice and school than "Bryan Bulaga....Iowa"
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SNF player introductions....my son and I have a theory that there is no better combination of picture, voice and school than "Bryan Bulaga....Iowa"
I love anyone from The U, if for no other reason it confuses my son everytime as to what that means.
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For some, it was A-OK for the NFL to run an obvious three-ring circus (and likely scam) yesterday, and for others it was A-OK for Kaepernick to run his own circus.
As for how good, bad or mediocre he is (or was), that's up for debate.
In his last season, 2016, he ranked 17th in passer rating among qualifiers, just behind Russell Wilson, Andy Dalton and Alex Smith, and just ahead of Tyrod Taylor, Philip Rivers and Carson Palmer. He was 13th in TD% and 6th in INT%. His QBR was 21st. He also ran for 468 yards, averaging 6 yards a carry.
Statistically, he was a middle-of-the-pack QB, which certainly supports the belief of those who say he's "mediocre."
Although he had slipped some from the level he played to lead the Niners to two straight NFC title games (and a Super Bowl), IMHO he wasn't a bad QB. We've all seen "bad" QBs, and most don't throw only 4 INTs in 331 passes over 12 games.
On talent alone, he was good enough to start for some teams that do field bad QBs, and he obviously was good enough to be the No. 1 backup on pretty much any team.
With him being 3 years removed from competition, no team would sign him to start now -- even if he didn't come with a three-ring circus.
He doesn't seem the type who would accept a backup role, though I haven't seen him quoted about that either way. Meanwhile, who could blame NFL teams for wanting to avoid dealing with the circus -- as well as likely fan backlash -- for a backup-level QB?
The anthem kneeling and the activism never bothered me. But I did not like the way he made generalizations suggesting that all cops were bad, the way he wore socks depicting cops as pigs, etc. He was an imperfect spokesperson for his own cause (but then again we're all imperfect), and like the rest of us he has to deal with the consequences of his words and deeds.
It's been an interesting story, that's for sure.
Well said Mike.
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I’m fine if Daniel plays, but there could not be an odder time to put him in. So typical of Nagy to make a weird decision like that.
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I’m fine if Daniel plays, but there could not be an odder time to put him in. So typical of Nagy to make a weird decision like that.
Right? In a game where Mitch wasn't the reason for them losing
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It also looked like to me Mitch was crying or fighting back tears when Nagy was talking to him.
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It also looked like to me Mitch was crying or fighting back tears when Nagy was talking to him.
I'm guessing it was the severe pain from the "hip injury"
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I'm guessing it was the severe pain from the "hip injury"
That made me legit LOL.
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I’m fine if Daniel plays, but there could not be an odder time to put him in. So typical of Nagy to make a weird decision like that.
Not sure what the purpose of playing Daniel is. He is not a long term solution. He isn't really even a solution.
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My gut reaction without overthinking this take...Nagy decided to pull Mitch late in a national tv game, with the outcome semi-decided, to throw Mitch under the bus to save his own butt.
I can not come up with any other good reason for it at that particular time. There's no chance Mitch was hurt, no eff'n way.
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My gut reaction without overthinking this take...Nagy decided to pull Mitch late in a national tv game, with the outcome semi-decided, to throw Mitch under the bus to save his own butt.
I can not come up with any other good reason for it at that particular time. There's no chance Mitch was hurt, no eff'n way.
If so, I'd like to be a fly on the wall for the next Nagy / Pace discussion.
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My gut reaction without overthinking this take...Nagy decided to pull Mitch late in a national tv game, with the outcome semi-decided, to throw Mitch under the bus to save his own butt.
I can not come up with any other good reason for it at that particular time. There's no chance Mitch was hurt, no eff'n way.
Intriguing. Don't see that working either.
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Conspiracy Dish has lots of questions after that Nagy post game presser.
Every game, I mean literally every game, Nagy opens his post game presser with injury news. Always does this. Every. Game. He did not do that tonight. Very, very odd.
Going back and watching the game, the only play Mitch could have got slightly hurt on was the Donald sack midway through the 4th quarter, but there's no way it would have been more than a bruise. If a QB got hurt earlier in the game, there's zero, zilch, nada chance the QB would be out there and running option plays in the 4th quarter (Bears claim Mitch got hurt in the second quarter).
I very much believe Nagy went rogue, pulled Mitch, Bears scrambled behind the scenes to get their stories straight for postgame.
Mitch's body language in his post game presser is dead man walking.
This is all a circus and a sideshow from the real problem...the team and organization suck.
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This just in.....
'The Bears Still Suck!'
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If Nagy is really moving on from mitch, fine. But you need to move more pieces around. Trade Mack and maybe Hicks for picks. Need more draft availability.
Build around jackson/Smith on defense.
Not sure who to build around on offense?
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Bears shouldn’t move on from Mitch. He won’t get anything on the trade market anyway.
They should move on from Nagy.
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Carolina misses Cam Newton as Kyle Allen has regressed
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If Nagy is really moving on from mitch, fine. But you need to move more pieces around. Trade Mack and maybe Hicks for picks. Need more draft availability.
Build around jackson/Smith on defense.
Not sure who to build around on offense?
Except Jackson and Smith won’t be near as effective without teams doubling Mack on every play.
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Carolina better without Cam....
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Carolina better without Cam....
Lots of issues with My Panthers tm right now.
(Glass houses. And stuff. Bears.)
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Carolina misses Cam Newton as Kyle Allen has regressed
Zero wins with Cam at helm in a year. Allen, many more than zero
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Zero wins with Cam at helm in a year. Allen, many more than zero
Bad hot take remains bad.
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I very much believe Nagy went rogue, pulled Mitch, Bears scrambled behind the scenes to get their stories straight for postgame.
Mitch's body language in his post game presser is dead man walking.
This is all a circus and a sideshow from the real problem...the team and organization suck.
Bingo. He's 100% seeing the writing on the wall and trying to shift blame. We all know Mitch isnt the guy and doesn't have it, but he wasn't the issue last night for once. I said a few weeks ago Nagy lost the locker room, and this probably only gonna make it worse. Mitch looked shattered walking off the field.
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Zero wins with Cam at helm in a year. Allen, many more than zero
two games vs. eight games. Hardly a fair comparison
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Bingo. He's 100% seeing the writing on the wall and trying to shift blame. We all know Mitch isnt the guy and doesn't have it, but he wasn't the issue last night for once. I said a few weeks ago Nagy lost the locker room, and this probably only gonna make it worse. Mitch looked shattered walking off the field.
I'm sure someone has an example, but off the top of my head, I don't know if I can recall someone more emotionally dejected than Mitch after he got told he was coming out of that game. I'm sorry, but if he was injured and kept playing through it, there's no way he reacts like he did. It honestly looked like someone told him his dog died, and his post game presser was just depressing to watch.
The locker room is for sure lost, between Miller and Patterson last night, Mack's overall body language the last month, this team and organization is in total shambles. They are going to go 5-11, and the Raiders are going to get a great pick.
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Bingo. He's 100% seeing the writing on the wall and trying to shift blame. We all know Mitch isnt the guy and doesn't have it, but he wasn't the issue last night for once. I said a few weeks ago Nagy lost the locker room, and this probably only gonna make it worse. Mitch looked shattered walking off the field.
While I agree that Nagy deserves a lot of blame, I think ultimately the onus is on Pace. He is the one that made the two biggest moves that a GM has to make in any NFL organization - GM and head coach. It's looking more and more like he blew it on both accounts.
But the Trubisky pick is what screwed the team the most. Not only that he picked the worst of the 3 options, but they he gave up valuable draft capital to make the mistake. If there is only one QB that everyone says is going to be picked high, then you take him and live with it if he fails. When there are 3 guys, you don't give up assets to move up 1 spot. You still have 2 fallbacks.
One other point about the game. It was fun watching 2 of the young offensive geniuses look like complete failures last night. These 2 offensive gurus are entirely dependent on their defenses to have any chance to win. Both have QBs who have clearly regressed under their teaching. Once teams had tape of the advanced systems, they don't work without a good to great QB..
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I'm sure someone has an example, but off the top of my head, I don't know if I can recall someone more emotionally dejected than Mitch after he got told he was coming out of that game. I'm sorry, but if he was injured and kept playing through it, there's no way he reacts like he did. It honestly looked like someone told him his dog died, and his post game presser was just depressing to watch.
The locker room is for sure lost, between Miller and Patterson last night, Mack's overall body language the last month, this team and organization is in total shambles. They are going to go 5-11, and the Raiders are going to get a great pick.
Lovie's 81-63 record looks better and better each day. Sans last year, it has been a clown show since he departed.
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One other point about the game. It was fun watching 2 of the young offensive geniuses look like complete failures last night. These 2 offensive gurus are entirely dependent on their defenses to have any chance to win. Both have QBs who have clearly regressed under their teaching. Once teams had tape of the advanced systems, they don't work without a good to great QB..
I don't think this is completely fair to McVay. He's not been great this year, but this is year 3, not year 1. He took Goff who was a mess year 1 before McVay got there, molded him year 2, and by year 3 he had a great year as the team excelled. Its not like the league didn't have advanced tape on him last year from the year before. The Rams offense is looking rough, but they are also pretty banged up. Cooks and Woods havent been totally healthy. Gurley looked good last night, but he's been a ghost of himself for most of the year, and the offense really ran through him last year. Being in the best division in football doesn't help.
I think the thing with Nagy that I don't know how Pace could have saw coming is his inability to adapt or have confidence in things when it gets rocky. Kickers, Trubisky, a running game. He loses faith quickly and then cant stick to his plan or system, its terrible.
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I think the thing with Nagy that I don't know how Pace could have saw coming is his inability to adapt or have confidence in things when it gets rocky. Kickers, Trubisky, a running game. He loses faith quickly and then cant stick to his plan or system, its terrible.
I always like to see a young coach go through tough times cuz that is when you get a read on him. Nagy has failed that test so far.
We will see what happens when GB hits a roadblock and what LaFleur does (granted AR will make the road way less bumpy).
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I don't think this is completely fair to McVay. He's not been great this year, but this is year 3, not year 1. He took Goff who was a mess year 1 before McVay got there, molded him year 2, and by year 3 he had a great year as the team excelled. Its not like the league didn't have advanced tape on him last year from the year before. The Rams offense is looking rough, but they are also pretty banged up. Cooks and Woods havent been totally healthy. Gurley looked good last night, but he's been a ghost of himself for most of the year, and the offense really ran through him last year. Being in the best division in football doesn't help.
The Patriots showed the entire NFL the blueprint to slowing down the Rams offense.
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https://www.yahoo.com/sports/theres-reason-to-believe-nf-ls-colin-kaepernick-workout-was-a-trojan-horse-044606049.html
So, perhaps, the NFL had a different set of motives in setting up Kaepernick's workout. And maybe, just maybe, Kaepernick and his attorneys recognized them and THAT is why the alternative workout site.
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I always like to see a young coach go through tough times cuz that is when you get a read on him. Nagy has failed that test so far.
We will see what happens when GB hits a roadblock and what LaFleur does (granted AR will make the road way less bumpy).
Granted, it was a speed bump. But they regrouped pretty good for the Carolina game.
I listened to Nagy's long winded presser yesterday. He's completely lost. And his Mitch explanation didn't ring true at all. Long road for the Bears going forward.
Betcha that Mack wishes the trade to the Packers would have worked out. His remaining best years will be wasted.
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https://www.yahoo.com/sports/theres-reason-to-believe-nf-ls-colin-kaepernick-workout-was-a-trojan-horse-044606049.html
So, perhaps, the NFL had a different set of motives in setting up Kaepernick's workout. And maybe, just maybe, Kaepernick and his attorneys recognized them and THAT is why the alternative workout site.
A head coach would have the most to gain or lose if their team signed Colin, yet the NFL made sure they were not allowed to attend the workout. It was an utter sham. Typical Goodell.
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In other news, Rivers is toast, its painful watching him try to throw the ball. I cant see the Chargers giving him another deal.
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Publicity stunt...why when he had a chance...Jay Z not happy...NFL not happy...Nike happy?
SMDH
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In other news, Rivers is toast, its painful watching him try to throw the ball. I cant see the Chargers giving him another deal.
Brady to Chargers has a lot of legs
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Brady to Chargers has a lot of legs
Heard this first from Pat McAfee
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Prediction: Mike McCarthy will be the next coach of the Atlanta Falcons.
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https://youtu.be/fnD9McUsUlQ
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Publicity stunt...why when he had a chance...Jay Z not happy...NFL not happy...Nike happy?
SMDH
Jay Z sold his soul to the NFL. He’s saying what he’s told to say. A friend of mine left Roc Nation after the deal was announced. Kap called the NFL’s bluff.
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https://youtu.be/fnD9McUsUlQ
Steven A. Best source out there.
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It sounds like as part of the waiver the NFL wanted Kaepernick to sign, they added in language that would make it more difficult for him to sue them again for collusion. The more that comes out, the worse this looks for the NFL.
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It sounds like as part of the waiver the NFL wanted Kaepernick to sign, they added in language that would make it more difficult for him to sue them again for collusion. The more that comes out, the worse this looks for the NFL.
Are you implying that Stephen A. may not understand the subtleties of contracts and employment law??
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It sounds like as part of the waiver the NFL wanted Kaepernick to sign, they added in language that would make it more difficult for him to sue them again for collusion. The more that comes out, the worse this looks for the NFL.
Old news, reported 4 days ago.
His little PR stunt, will be interesting if anyone goes after him now. The safest bets would be Baltimore or Seattle where he holds a clipboard and does nothing else, but I don’t think many teams will want the drama for someone that isn’t close to elite.
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Workout was a bad idea from the start, handled poorly by everyone, and neither side had any interest in recognizing the legitimate suspicions each side has of the other. Dumb.
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Old news, reported 4 days ago.
His little PR stunt, will be interesting if anyone goes after him now. The safest bets would be Baltimore or Seattle where he holds a clipboard and does nothing else, but I don’t think many teams will want the drama for someone that isn’t close to elite.
So, I’m curious what the PR stunt is. The NFL approaches him with this with 2 hours to decide and puts it at the least opportune time for the teams. Then, they throw conditions at him at the last minute that go above and beyond normal workouts and shows the ulterior motive of the NFL.
Granted, I’m not sure about some of the Nike stuff involved with this. I suppose you could call it a PR stunt that he moved it, but it sounds like the NFL was being unreasonable. I feel the NFL did this more as a PR stunt or to avoid another lawsuit than any other reason.
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Old news, reported 4 days ago.
His little PR stunt, will be interesting if anyone goes after him now. The safest bets would be Baltimore or Seattle where he holds a clipboard and does nothing else, but I don’t think many teams will want the drama for someone that isn’t close to elite.
This wasn't a PR stunt by him. The NFL got caught in its own PR stunt, where it was trying to manipulate and take advantage of Kaep. It failed.
Shameful by the NFL.
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Old news, reported 4 days ago.
His little PR stunt, will be interesting if anyone goes after him now. The safest bets would be Baltimore or Seattle where he holds a clipboard and does nothing else, but I don’t think many teams will want the drama for someone that isn’t close to elite.
Who is creating the drama you speak of? Bootlicking snowflakes?
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Who is creating the drama you speak of? Bootlicking snowflakes?
It would be a story for one week and then disappear
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This wasn't a PR stunt by him. The NFL got caught in its own PR stunt, where it was trying to manipulate and take advantage of Kaep. It failed.
Shameful by the NFL.
nailed it.
And considering the rave reviews on his performance from officials there the continued failure of any team to sign him further reinforces us his claims of collusion. Plus, the real drams isn't Kap, it's the fans and right wing media. The Tebow circus was ok, why not Kap? He can actually throw a football and complete a pass.
Detroit may be an option with Stafford out and the season spiraling out of control, or as the Lions call it, normalcy.
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nailed it.
And considering the rave reviews on his performance from officials there the continued failure of any team to sign him further reinforces us his claims of collusion. Plus, the real drams isn't Kap, it's the fans and right wing media. The Tebow circus was ok, why not Kap? He can actually throw a football and complete a pass.
Detroit may be an option with Stafford out and the season spiraling out of control, or as the Lions call it, normalcy.
I think Detroit should sign him. However, they may make the choice that the season over and tank for draft picks.
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I think Detroit should sign him. However, they may make the choice that the season over and tank for draft picks.
Wait, they aren’t tanking right now?
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Not on purpose.
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nailed it.
And considering the rave reviews on his performance from officials there the continued failure of any team to sign him further reinforces us his claims of collusion. Plus, the real drams isn't Kap, it's the fans and right wing media. The Tebow circus was ok, why not Kap? He can actually throw a football and complete a pass.
Detroit may be an option with Stafford out and the season spiraling out of control, or as the Lions call it, normalcy.
the nfl says here, we will put out the word and the venue for you(kaep) to showcase your schnit. who was the last player they've done that for? then kaep and his team mess that all up, change the venue, less people show up. then post workout, kaep continues to criticize the very organization that is giving him a sloppy wet kiss?? only a handful of people show up, he's lobbing passes to open receivers running down the field...big whop. sure he looks pumped up. what else does he have to do? any team that's ready for his sh*t show and divisive locker room, go right ahead. then, when he doesn't work out, it'll be like the neighbor that won't go away...all around. the aclu, jesse jackson, sharpton will all be on their soap boxes, etc etc it's a lose lose scenario
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the nfl says here, we will put out the word and the venue for you(kaep) to showcase your schnit. who was the last player they've done that for? then kaep and his team mess that all up, change the venue, less people show up. then post workout, kaep continues to criticize the very organization that is giving him a sloppy wet kiss?? only a handful of people show up, he's lobbing passes to open receivers running down the field...big whop. sure he looks pumped up. what else does he have to do? any team that's ready for his sh*t show and divisive locker room, go right ahead. then, when he doesn't work out, it'll be like the neighbor that won't go away...all around. the aclu, jesse jackson, sharpton will all be on their soap boxes, etc etc it's a lose lose scenario
Richie Incognito is in the NFL. Raiders locker room seems fine. Panthers have Eric Reid and Cowboys have Michael Bennett and the locker room is fine in both those places.
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Yeah I don’t recall anyone saying Kaep was a problem in the locker room.
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https://youtu.be/4vGj4k6vFdQ
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the nfl says here, we will put out the word and the venue for you(kaep) to showcase your schnit. who was the last player they've done that for? then kaep and his team mess that all up, change the venue, less people show up. then post workout, kaep continues to criticize the very organization that is giving him a sloppy wet kiss?? only a handful of people show up, he's lobbing passes to open receivers running down the field...big whop. sure he looks pumped up. what else does he have to do? any team that's ready for his sh*t show and divisive locker room, go right ahead. then, when he doesn't work out, it'll be like the neighbor that won't go away...all around. the aclu, jesse jackson, sharpton will all be on their soap boxes, etc etc it's a lose lose scenario
Serious question...Have you read the info regarding the documents that the NFL wanted Kaep to sign? Do you understand why Kaep changed the venue?
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the nfl says here, we will put out the word and the venue for you(kaep) to showcase your schnit. who was the last player they've done that for? then kaep and his team mess that all up, change the venue, less people show up. then post workout, kaep continues to criticize the very organization that is giving him a sloppy wet kiss?? only a handful of people show up, he's lobbing passes to open receivers running down the field...big whop. sure he looks pumped up. what else does he have to do? any team that's ready for his sh*t show and divisive locker room, go right ahead. then, when he doesn't work out, it'll be like the neighbor that won't go away...all around. the aclu, jesse jackson, sharpton will all be on their soap boxes, etc etc it's a lose lose scenario
If you honestly believe that the NFL was doing Kaepernick a favor, you haven't been paying attention.
I kind of find myself in the middle in the Kaepernick thing. I'm well aware that based upon other positions I believe, I'm supposed to hate him. But I don't. I don't necessarily agree with him on the nature of the problem he is protesting, but I do respect what he is doing. I've frequently defended him to people who are surprised that I'm on "his side." But I'm not really. I also think it's legit for team owners to not want to have him on their team or deal with him. He feels strongly about something, and he's willing to take a stand. I respect that. He also appears willing to accept the consequences of doing so (we can debate how serious those consequences have been). I respect that as well. That said, there's no question that at this point he's far more interested in being an attention-seeking activist (all the "best" activists are) than an NFL quarterback.
But, as I said, anyone who thinks that the NFL is looking to do him any favors (or thinks that he's not talented enough to play in the NFL) is absolutely delusional.
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the nfl says here, we will put out the word and the venue for you(kaep) to showcase your schnit. who was the last player they've done that for? then kaep and his team mess that all up, change the venue, less people show up. then post workout, kaep continues to criticize the very organization that is giving him a sloppy wet kiss?? only a handful of people show up, he's lobbing passes to open receivers running down the field...big whop. sure he looks pumped up. what else does he have to do? any team that's ready for his sh*t show and divisive locker room, go right ahead. then, when he doesn't work out, it'll be like the neighbor that won't go away...all around. the aclu, jesse jackson, sharpton will all be on their soap boxes, etc etc it's a lose lose scenario
You do realize that that's how all workouts for quarterbacks look, right? No teams are putting on 11 on 11 scrimmages to work out potential quarterbacks, whether it's pre-draft workouts or free agents.
The NFL decided to "put on" a workout on a Saturday. The people who would most benefit from seeing Kaepernick work out are the coaches in the NFL. You know what coaches in the NFL are doing? Traveling and preparing for Sunday games. Besides Sunday, it's the worst day you could "put on" a workout for an NFL player.
By asking the question "who was the last player they've done that for?" you're getting hit smack in the face. It was a publicity stunt. If an NFL team wanted to see Kaepernick work out they would've set up an individual workout. They wouldn't wait to let all NFL teams have an equal shot at seeing him work out.
They literally "set up" the work out without telling him. Then they provided him a contract that basically said, "Here, we'll set up a nice workout for you and you then go away and can't sue us going forward." They gave Kaepernick and his team 2 hours to decide whether they wanted to sign that. What?
Sorry, but you should look more into the situation before you claim Kaepernick is the one screwing up the situation.
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If you honestly believe that the NFL was doing Kaepernick a favor, you haven't been paying attention.
I kind of find myself in the middle in the Kaepernick thing. I'm well aware that based upon other positions I believe, I'm supposed to hate him. But I don't. I don't necessarily agree with him on the nature of the problem he is protesting, but I do respect what he is doing. I've frequently defended him to people who are surprised that I'm on "his side." But I'm not really. I also think it's legit for team owners to not want to have him on their team or deal with him. He feels strongly about something, and he's willing to take a stand. I respect that. He also appears willing to accept the consequences of doing so (we can debate how serious those consequences have been). I respect that as well. That said, there's no question that at this point he's far more interested in being an attention-seeking activist (all the "best" activists are) than an NFL quarterback.
But, as I said, anyone who thinks that the NFL is looking to do him any favors (or thinks that he's not talented enough to play in the NFL) is absolutely delusional.
Reasonable, well-stated take.
You do realize that that's how all workouts for quarterbacks look, right? No teams are putting on 11 on 11 scrimmages to work out potential quarterbacks, whether it's pre-draft workouts or free agents.
The NFL decided to "put on" a workout on a Saturday. The people who would most benefit from seeing Kaepernick work out are the coaches in the NFL. You know what coaches in the NFL are doing? Traveling and preparing for Sunday games. Besides Sunday, it's the worst day you could "put on" a workout for an NFL player.
By asking the question "who was the last player they've done that for?" you're getting hit smack in the face. It was a publicity stunt. If an NFL team wanted to see Kaepernick work out they would've set up an individual workout. They wouldn't wait to let all NFL teams have an equal shot at seeing him work out.
They literally "set up" the work out without telling him. Then they provided him a contract that basically said, "Here, we'll set up a nice workout for you and you then go away and can't sue us going forward." They gave Kaepernick and his team 2 hours to decide whether they wanted to sign that. What?
Sorry, but you should look more into the situation before you claim Kaepernick is the one screwing up the situation.
There is a lot of misunderstanding about what went on here. I won't pick on rocketman specifically because he's not alone, but yes, understanding what went on here requires looking past the "Quick List of Kaepernick Haters' Talking Points."
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This piece today was really well done. (Seth Wickersham) It's a little lengthy but lots of good information.
https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/28117460/inside-rams-chargers-marriage-nfl-fights-los-angeles?platform=amp&__twitter_impression=true
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So apparently an apology wasn't necessary, given that Garrett did exactly what the Tweet suggested.
Anyways, Panthers better without Cam....
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This piece today was really well done. (Seth Wickersham) It's a little lengthy but lots of good information.
https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/28117460/inside-rams-chargers-marriage-nfl-fights-los-angeles?platform=amp&__twitter_impression=true
Yeah, they should have tried to help Spanos in San Diego. Two teams in LA isn't going to work.
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Yeah, they should have tried to help Spanos in San Diego. Two teams in LA isn't going to work.
1) The league can pony up money for Spanos for San Diego.
2) He can sell to someone more wealthy that can and will privately finance a stadium.
The people of San Diego deserved better.
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Myles Garrett's attempt at using the race card today...
(http://mlb.mlb.com/images/3/4/2/72690342/041914_colon_swings_2_27g6inde.gif)
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Myles Garrett's attempt at using the race card today...
(http://mlb.mlb.com/images/3/4/2/72690342/041914_colon_swings_2_27g6inde.gif)
The time for such a defense was immediately after it happened or in the following hours/day. Not a week later. That, coupled with no such reaction that would have occurred from Rudolph's own black teammates right next to him during the incident, made it a major whiff that managed to make a bad situation worse.
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The time for such a defense was immediately after it happened or in the following hours/day. Not a week later. That, coupled with no such reaction that would have occurred from Rudolph's own black teammates right next to him during the incident, made it a major whiff that managed to make a bad situation worse.
First point I agree with. Second point is problematic. Did they hear it? Would they defend their teammate first only to admonish him later?
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This piece today was really well done. (Seth Wickersham) It's a little lengthy but lots of good information.
https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/28117460/inside-rams-chargers-marriage-nfl-fights-los-angeles?platform=amp&__twitter_impression=true
Not the best day for the NFL
https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/missouri-s-high-court-says-nfl-owners-phone-records-are/article_91c84c63-6aca-5fe6-897e-fb16549590ac.html?mode=nowapp
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Interesting ... turns out the much-maligned Josina Anderson was right when she speculated that Garrett would accuse Rudolph of having used a racial slur.
As my fellow Scoopers know, I'm hyper-sensitive to race-relations incidents, but this charge by Garrett doesn't seem to pass the smell test.
Garrett addressed reporters at length after the game, and he issued statements in the days that followed, and no mention of any slur. No mention of any slur by any of his teammates who were nearby; no mention by teammates that he later told them Rudolph used the n-word or something; no mention by any black players on the Steelers, who are vocally defending Rudolph.
Certainly not saying it's impossible that it happened, just doesn't seem to be any evidence of it, even second- or third-hand evidence.
If it's untrue, I really hate this kind of accusation. There are so, so, so, so many instances of actual racism that get swept under the carpet; every time there is a false allegation it gives the racists cover when something real happens.
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Interesting ... turns out the much-maligned Josina Anderson was right when she speculated that Garrett would accuse Rudolph of having used a racial slur.
As my fellow Scoopers know, I'm hyper-sensitive to race-relations incidents, but this charge by Garrett doesn't seem to pass the smell test.
Garrett addressed reporters at length after the game, and he issued statements in the days that followed, and no mention of any slur. No mention of any slur by any of his teammates who were nearby; no mention by teammates that he later told them Rudolph used the n-word or something; no mention by any black players on the Steelers, who are vocally defending Rudolph.
Certainly not saying it's impossible that it happened, just doesn't seem to be any evidence of it, even second- or third-hand evidence.
If it's untrue, I really hate this kind of accusation. There are so, so, so, so many instances of actual racism that get swept under the carpet; every time there is a false allegation it gives the racists cover when something real happens.
Yep. And if I'm Rudolph I sue his sorry arse for a couple million for slander claiming that allegation cost him the next Ford F-150 commercial gig.
Despicable. Own your GD mistake like a man Garrett.
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Yep. And if I'm Rudolph I sue his sorry arse for a couple million for slander claiming that allegation cost him the next Ford F-150 commercial gig.
And you'd lose. Not because he said it but because the standard for successfully suing a public figure for slander is quite high.
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And you'd lose. Not because he said it but because the standard for successfully suing a public figure for slander is quite high.
I dunno, actual malice requires knowledge of the falsity of the statement or a reckless disregard for whether it was false, and Garrett sure as heck knows whether his accusation was true or false.
The trouble would be proving that Garrett's accusation is false. I'm not sure there are a ton of great and eager witnesses all excited to suffer depositions and through a media circus trial to back Rudolph's cash grab. And that's saying nothing about how difficult it would be to prove how the accusation actually caused him monetary harm... unless F150 really did rescind a contract that he could use to show how much $ the accusation cost him.
If I'm Rudolph I let this thing die, not because I might not have a good defamation case, but because I'm not sure the continued negative press surrounding the whole situation is worth the trouble.
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I dunno, actual malice requires knowledge of the falsity of the statement or a reckless disregard for whether it was false, and Garrett sure as heck knows whether his accusation was true or false.
The trouble would be proving that Garrett's accusation is false. I'm not sure there are a ton of great and eager witnesses all excited to suffer depositions and through a media circus trial to back Rudolph's cash grab. And that's saying nothing about how difficult it would be to prove how the accusation actually caused him monetary harm... unless F150 really did rescind a contract that he could use to show how much $ the accusation cost him.
If I'm Rudolph I let this thing die, not because I might not have a good defamation case, but because I'm not sure the continued negative press surrounding the whole situation is worth the trouble.
Yeah the bolded is the problem.
And yeah Rudolph should let this die.
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I’m pretty sure all QBs (and a number of OLs) wear mics during the game. It’s why you can pretty clearly and easily hear Rodgers yelling “orange bozo” or Manning yelling “Omaha!” I’d think it would be pretty easy, given Rudolph is the QB, to prove whether or not he used a racial slur.
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I’m pretty sure all QBs (and a number of OLs) wear mics during the game. It’s why you can pretty clearly and easily hear Rodgers yelling “orange bozo” or Manning yelling “Omaha!” I’d think it would be pretty easy, given Rudolph is the QB, to prove whether or not he used a racial slur.
Those mics are usually worn by offensive linemen and are shut off as soon as the ball is snapped.
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Might be directional mics too, the kinda satellite dish looking things carried by people on the sidelines.
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First point I agree with. Second point is problematic. Did they hear it? Would they defend their teammate first only to admonish him later?
If Garrett heard it, others would have. And its an especially ugly word that would blur the lines of outright defense of a teammate and support and defense of Rudolph hasn't wavered from the minute the incident happened until now. Slurs carry more weight than a cheap shot or something more minor.
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The Steelers players had no problems defending Roethlisberger, so I'm going to take any denials with a grain of salt.
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Wee all kneed ta look like Waldo, aina?
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Lions gotta Lion.
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Interesting ... turns out the much-maligned Josina Anderson was right when she speculated that Garrett would accuse Rudolph of having used a racial slur.
As my fellow Scoopers know, I'm hyper-sensitive to race-relations incidents, but this charge by Garrett doesn't seem to pass the smell test.
Garrett addressed reporters at length after the game, and he issued statements in the days that followed, and no mention of any slur. No mention of any slur by any of his teammates who were nearby; no mention by teammates that he later told them Rudolph used the n-word or something; no mention by any black players on the Steelers, who are vocally defending Rudolph.
Certainly not saying it's impossible that it happened, just doesn't seem to be any evidence of it, even second- or third-hand evidence.
If it's untrue, I really hate this kind of accusation. There are so, so, so, so many instances of actual racism that get swept under the carpet; every time there is a false allegation it gives the racists cover when something real happens.
Whoa whoa whoa. She was right? LOL. Let’s go back and see what she said. She apologized for a reason. She didn’t just say he would say it, she implied it happened to justify his actions. Read her tweet again.
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Kyle Allen...your kicker fooled you hard today...two missed extra points and a missed 28 yarder with 2 minutes to play. Played well, deserved to win.
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Apparently, sometimes, Panthers gotta Lion.
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Panthers really miss Cam Newton
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https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2019/11/watch-cleveland-browns-fans-hit-mason-rudolph-pinata-with-steelers-helmet-in-muni-lot.html
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https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2019/11/watch-cleveland-browns-fans-hit-mason-rudolph-pinata-with-steelers-helmet-in-muni-lot.html
Keeping it classy in Cleveland
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https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2019/11/watch-cleveland-browns-fans-hit-mason-rudolph-pinata-with-steelers-helmet-in-muni-lot.html
i'll betcha there was akahall being consumed
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Jason Garrett. You never disappoint.
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Apparently the packer blueprint is having a Bosa on the line
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Just competent QB play and double teaming Davante Adams. Meaning don’t throw the ball right to a Packers DB 2-3 times a game. Pin the ears back and get to the QB. No other receiver or tight end is any kind of threat.
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Refs making up for the Lions there.
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Interesting start to Packer game.
Total BS unsportsmanlike conduct call against GB on their first good play.
Even worse "hands to the face" call against King after a big sack that would have pushed them back. Hands never got even close to the face, worse call than either against Detroit.
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45 yard field goal attempt to put some points on the board after finally moving the ball a little? No thanks. We’ll give any bit of momentum we had right back to our opponent.
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I don’t mind going for it at all. The play call though...
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I don’t mind going for it at all. The play call though...
Agree
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LaFleur should have challenged the Graham drop.
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I don’t mind going for it at all. The play call though...
Agreed on both parts. Up the middle against 49ers is not going to work with Jones.
LaFleur should have challenged the Graham drop.
Live it didn't even look close and Graham didn't seem to think he caught it, so likely no one looked at it.
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This offense is just so, so bad. No weapons at receiver or tight end beyond Adams at all. Double Adams. Pin the ears back.
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This offense is just so, so bad. No weapons at receiver or tight end beyond Adams at all. Double Adams. Pin the ears back.
For some reason media continues to say that WRs are fine. It’s bizarre.
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For some reason media continues to say that WRs are fine. It’s bizarre.
Who says that? By and large they’ve been labeled as adequate at best.
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Packers destined for a road wild card loss.
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Martinez just kills this team in the middle of the field. Can’t cover anyone and is lost playing zone.
Gets buried way too often in the run game too.
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This offense is just so, so bad. No weapons at receiver or tight end beyond Adams at all. Double Adams. Pin the ears back.
You don't think Jimmy Graham's barely reanimated corpse is a formidable weapon?
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At least the boys came out of the bye week ready to play. Can't ask for much more than that.
On a side note, there was an article a couple weeks ago about how the Packers had a total of negative 3 punt return yards this season. I haven't been keeping track each week, but I can't remember any positive punt returns since then, and we've had -4 punt return yards again tonight. How in the world...?
And while I'm on the subject of punts, what happened to JK Scott? He was our best weapon to start the season. Now he can't punt the ball more than 35 yards. And it's 65 degrees with no wind in the stadium tonight.
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I think Scott is being asked to directionally punt with hangtime versus banging deep.
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I think Scott is being asked to directionally punt with hangtime versus banging deep.
They’re asking him to kick 35 yarders?
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They’re asking him to kick 35 yarders?
No I think he’s failing at what they are asking him to do.
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No I think he’s failing at what they are asking him to do.
In other words, take one of the best punters in the league and tell him to do something different? Wow, that seems really smart.
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On a side note, there was an article a couple weeks ago about how the Packers had a total of negative 3 punt return yards this season. I haven't been keeping track each week, but I can't remember any positive punt returns since then, and we've had -4 punt return yards again tonight. How in the world...?
Actually, it was -9 yards for the year. On pace to be the worst in NFL history.
One of the reasons I was glad to see McCarthy go was cuz their Special Teams were at the bottom of the league every year. Finally, that would get fixed. Um..., no. They have unbelievably gotten worse.
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Panthers really miss Cam Newton
Yeah, but Kyle Allen wasn't the main reason my boyz lost. We had to get a TD on that last drive. Even if that terrible K hits that FG, we probably lose, as Brees would have had forever to score.
That's game, set and match for the Panthers. Some real tough decisions to make in the offseason, starting with the GM, coach and QB.
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Panthers really miss Cam Newton
LOL.
Which Version, the one who hasn’t won a game in 365 days or the one from a few years ago?
Allen played very well today. Their kicker sucked balls. As did their defense. Panthers should have won.
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Jason Garrett. You never disappoint.
Clapping Ginger
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Frank Gore is now third all time in rushing yards gained. I didn’t even realize he was still in the league.
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I don't root for or against the Packers. But I will admit that it's nice to see another team look as pathetic at SF as the Panthers did. One of the Panthers' excuses was that they didn't have their star QB in the linuep.
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Packers clearly aren’t nearly as good as their record. Even wins that looked good at the time really aren’t. But their upcoming schedule is so weak that 4-1 is very doable. 12-4 with a wild card road game to New Orleans? Oy....
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Packers clearly aren’t nearly as good as their record. Even wins that looked good at the time really aren’t. But their upcoming schedule is so weak that 4-1 is very doable. 12-4 with a wild card road game to New Orleans? Oy....
I highly doubt Minnesota wins out. They aren’t as good as their 8-3 record either. NFC North got very overrated early on.
If the Packers finish 12-4 they’re winning the division, as they have the tie breaker with MN (who’s currently 1-2 in the division).
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I highly doubt Minnesota wins out. They aren’t as good as their 8-3 record either. NFC North got very overrated early on.
If the Packers finish 12-4 they’re winning the division, as they have the tie breaker with MN (who’s currently 1-2 in the division).
To be fair, as soon as I hit "Post" I thought, "we're probably going to lose in Detroit."
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Packers clearly aren’t nearly as good as their record. Even wins that looked good at the time really aren’t. But their upcoming schedule is so weak that 4-1 is very doable. 12-4 with a wild card road game to New Orleans? Oy....
But their schedule is so marshmallow soft they still have a great chance to finish 12-4 or 13-3. It’s like they got the UW Madison extension schedule. Get a few playoff games in Lambeau and who knows what can happen.
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UW's strength of schedule this year is top ten in the country.
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UW's strength of schedule this year is top ten in the country.
LOL. 44th in one ranking. 48th in another. 46th in another. 51st in another.
I think you mean UW-madison extension's strength of schedule is top ten in the Big Ten this year....which is also saying something. Where on earth do you see where they have a top 10 schedule?
Did you mean Green Bay's schedule? It is ranked around 10th...but will fall considering who they have left...only one winning team left on the schedule.
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LOL. 44th in one ranking. 48th in another. 46th in another. 51st in another.
I got it here. If this is the wrong metric or a bad site, that's fine. Wrong topic anyway.
https://www.teamrankings.com/college-football/ranking/schedule-strength-by-other
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This just in.Lamar Jackson is pretty f'n good.
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Ravens and 49ers repeat Super Bowl?
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This just in.Lamar Jackson is pretty f'n good.
@SharpFootball:
Lamar Jackson cap hits:
2020: 2.6M
2021: 3.0M
Jared Goff cap hits:
2020: 36.0M
2021: 32.5M
2022: 30.5M
2023: 30.0M
2024: 26.0M
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This just in.Lamar Jackson is pretty f'n good.
If the season ended today, is he the MVP?
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If the season ended today, is he the MVP?
Think it's a race between him and Tom Brady's PR guy
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Ravens and 49ers repeat Super Bowl?
Repeat of the game in New Orleans when the lights went out...Harbaugh vs Harbaugh...my wife and I were there. Don’t they play this year, too? Jackson was 31st in passing completion % last year, now around 10th...pretty amazing.
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Lost in all the other stuff that happened last weekend was the fact that the Panthers succeeded in getting a defensive pass interference penalty called on the Saints after the refs had missed it.
It came on a third down in the red zone with a couple minutes left in a tie game. Panthers WR Jarius Wright was running a crossing pattern and appeared to break into the open, but a nanosecond after QB Kyle Allen released the ball, DB C.J. Gardner-Johnson reached out his arm at the 3-yard line, preventing Wright from continuing his route. The pass, which was thrown ahead of Wright to lead him into the end zone, fell incomplete.
Rivera got all the info from his coaches and players and threw the red flag. Only about 5% of interference calls (or non-calls) have been reversed all season, but Rivera thought the case was good for this one even though it wasn't nearly as egregious as the missed call against the Saints in last year's playoffs.
Rivera ended up being right, as interference was called and the Panthers were given a first down at the 3.
Then they proceeded to go 7 yards backward on the next three plays, setting up a missed 28-yard FG. And then Brees marched the Saints to the winning kick.
Had the Panthers gone on to score a TD there, and had the Saints not been able to tie it, that reversal would have been one of the main topics discussed from NFL Week 12:
The team that got "screwed" because of a non-call in the playoffs, successfully lobbied for the new rule. The rule has only rarely resulted in changed calls, but this would have been a huge one against the Saints.
The irony would have been delicious. Unfortunately, the Panthers suck too much to make it matter.
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Lost in all the other stuff that happened last weekend was the fact that the Panthers succeeded in getting a defensive pass interference penalty called on the Saints after the refs had missed it.
It came on a third down in the red zone with a couple minutes left in a tie game. Panthers WR Jarius Wright was running a crossing pattern and appeared to break into the open, but a nanosecond after QB Kyle Allen released the ball, DB C.J. Gardner-Johnson reached out his arm at the 3-yard line, preventing Wright from continuing his route. The pass, which was thrown ahead of Wright to lead him into the end zone, fell incomplete.
Rivera got all the info from his coaches and players and threw the red flag. Only about 5% of interference calls (or non-calls) have been reversed all season, but Rivera thought the case was good for this one even though it wasn't nearly as egregious as the missed call against the Saints in last year's playoffs.
Rivera ended up being right, as interference was called and the Panthers were given a first down at the 3.
Then they proceeded to go 7 yards backward on the next three plays, setting up a missed 28-yard FG. And then Brees marched the Saints to the winning kick.
Had the Panthers gone on to score a TD there, and had the Saints not been able to tie it, that reversal would have been one of the main topics discussed from NFL Week 12:
The team that got "screwed" because of a non-call in the playoffs, successfully lobbied for the new rule. The rule has only rarely resulted in changed calls, but this would have been a huge one against the Saints.
The irony would have been delicious. Unfortunately, the Panthers suck too much to make it matter.
They miss Cam Newton, especially in the red zone. When healthy, his legs were an incredible weapon.
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They miss Cam Newton, especially in the red zone. When healthy, his legs were an incredible weapon.
Yes, when healthy...all agree. He hasn’t been in a long time...better off with a QB that is healthy than one hurt....been saying that for months.
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Yes, when healthy...all agree. He hasn’t been in a long time...better off with a QB that is healthy than one hurt....been saying that for months.
No you haven't.
And even if you had. Damn Cheeks. You really are a genius. A team is better off without a guy physically incapable of playing? Shooooooot. Nobody but you could come up with that hard hitting analysis!
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No you haven't.
And even if you had. Damn Cheeks. You really are a genius. A team is better off without a guy physically incapable of playing? Shooooooot. Nobody but you could come up with that hard hitting analysis!
Absolutely said it....Lenny called you a liar a few times tonight, now I see why. There are several of these.
https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=58916.msg1162458#msg1162458
Incidentally many teams play an injured guy over a healthy one, as no doubt you are aware. Not sure why the Panthers kept doing it.
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They miss Cam Newton, especially in the red zone. When healthy, his legs were an incredible weapon.
The Panthers have lost 3 games this season in which they couldn't get a yard or two to score either the winning or tying TD at the end. They used to have the most devastating RPO weapon at the QB position ever, a 250+ pound guy who routinely scored TDs going through, around or over defenders. Of course they miss him. Even the first half of last season, when his shoulder wasn't 100% and he couldn't throw 25 yards downfield, his wheels were fine, he was completing nearly 70% of his passes, he was a threat to score on every play inside the 10, and the Panthers were 6-2. A shame that he's breaking down, but not totally surprising given the incredible amount of abuse his body has taken.
And yes, it is amazing that hoopaloop, and hoopaloop alone, has solved the "healthy is better than injured" riddle.
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Absolutely said it....Lenny called you a liar a few times tonight, now I see why. There are several of these.
https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=58916.msg1162458#msg1162458
Incidentally many teams play an injured guy over a healthy one, as no doubt you are aware. Not sure why the Panthers kept doing it.
Ahh got it. So what you should’ve said is “after I shifted the goalposts it’s the claim I made.”
Lenny was pretending we shouldn’t round numbers. He just forgot that the numbers he himself was using were rounded. Doh!
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Ahh got it. So what you should’ve said is “after I shifted the goalposts it’s the claim I made.”
Lenny was pretending we shouldn’t round numbers. He just forgot that the numbers he himself was using were rounded. Doh!
Nope. Good try, go read the old posts.
I think he just called you stupid, too. You two chums have a blessed Thanksgiving.
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Nope. Good try, go read the old posts.
I think he just called you stupid, too. You two chums have a blessed Thanksgiving.
Yeah he is fine with someone who shoots a lower percentage from 3 taking the same number of attempts per game. I’ll let you decide who’s stupid.
Didn’t need to shift any goalposts. Your claim was dumb. You then pretended you stated something else. Per usual.
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Lenny called you (wades) a liar a few times tonight, now I see why.
Ah ... so if Lenny calls somebody a liar, that person automatically is a liar? Good to know!
Let's see ... what Scooper has Lenny called a liar hundreds (maybe thousands) of times? Who could it be? Hmmm?
Hey hoopaloop ... thanks for admitting you're a pathological liar!
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Ah ... so if Lenny calls somebody a liar, that person automatically is a liar? Good to know!
Let's see ... what Scooper has Lenny called a liar hundreds (maybe thousands) of times? Who could it be? Hmmm?
Hey hoopaloop ... thanks for admitting you're a pathological liar!
Nope, nice try again. Giving Wades a heads up to push back on the nonsense here.
Called Lenny a liar hundreds or maybe thousands of times...false and provably false....search function my dear. That's become a habit of yours of late. Oh well. Happy Thanksgiving and Merry Christmas
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Nope, nice try again. Giving Wades a heads up to push back on the nonsense here.
Called Lenny a liar hundreds or maybe thousands of times...false and provably false....search function my dear. That's become a habit of yours of late. Oh well. Happy Thanksgiving and Merry Christmas
Read again.
82 was saying Lenny called you a liar.
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Read again.
82 was saying Lenny called you a liar.
Thank you. Maybe a million times. (Only slight hyperbole.)
Again, nice to see hoopaloop admit to being a liar. We should go easy on him, though. Pathological liars can't help it.
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Read again.
82 was saying Lenny called you a liar.
And I'm talking about Lenny calling Wades a liar
https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=59392.msg1176037#msg1176037
Lenny likes to throw out those claims, until proven wrong and then he goes away for awhile.
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And I'm talking about Lenny calling Wades a liar
https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=59392.msg1176037#msg1176037
Lenny likes to throw out those claims, until proven wrong and then he goes away for awhile.
You misinterpreted 82's post.
82: "what scooper has Lenny called a liar..."
"Scooper" in the above sentence is you (Chico's). As in, Lenny has called Chico's a liar hundreds of times
You thought 82 was saying you (Chico's) called Lenny a liar. That's why you responded with:
"Called Lenny a liar hundreds or maybe thousands of times...false and provably false"
You (Chico's) thought 82 said that you called Lenny a liar. 82 didn't say that. 82 said Lenny called you a liar.
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You misinterpreted 82's post.
82: "what scooper has Lenny called a liar..."
"Scooper" in the above sentence is you (Chico's). As in, Lenny has called Chico's a liar hundreds of times
You thought 82 was saying you (Chico's) called Lenny a liar. That's why you responded with:
"Called Lenny a liar hundreds or maybe thousands of times...false and provably false"
You (Chico's) thought 82 said that you called Lenny a liar. 82 didn't say that. 82 said Lenny called you a liar.
And as I said, Lenny makes those claims a lot, then when proven wrong he goes away for awhile. He can call someone a liar all he wants, doesn’t make him right. He also claims when people make a mistake it is a lie, which in and of itself is factually incorrect. A lie has intent.
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And as I said, Lenny makes those claims a lot, then when proven wrong he goes away for awhile. He can call someone a liar all he wants, doesn’t make him right. He also claims when people make a mistake it is a lie, which in and of itself is factually incorrect. A lie has intent.
Gotcha.
Enjoy turkey day.
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And as I said, Lenny makes those claims a lot, then when proven wrong he goes away for awhile. He can call someone a liar all he wants, doesn’t make him right. He also claims when people make a mistake it is a lie, which in and of itself is factually incorrect. A lie has intent.
Ah. So when Lenny calls wades a liar, you use it as "proof" that wades is wrong and/or is lying.
But when Lenny calls you a liar ... he is mistaken because you never lie.
Got it.
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Third string quarterback for the Lions tomorrow. Driskel has a hamstring issue. Wheeeeee.
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Third string quarterback for the Lions tomorrow. Driskel has a hamstring issue. Wheeeeee.
Cause I'm sure he's better than Kaep.
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Cause I'm sure he's better than Kaep.
Saw the XFL stopped them from signing Josh Johnson so it's only natural that they signed a pocket passer instead
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Third string quarterback for the Lions tomorrow. Driskel has a hamstring issue. Wheeeeee.
Bears get another fortunate break on the path to 6-10. When in reality, given a healthy Lions team, they’d be closer to 4-12 than 6-10
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Ah. So when Lenny calls wades a liar, you use it as "proof" that wades is wrong and/or is lying.
But when Lenny calls you a liar ... he is mistaken because you never lie.
Got it.
Nope...you don’t got it, or have it. Lenny has falsely called folks liars before, Often wrong or at best, catching someone mistaken and implying a lie (intent matters). I gave Wades a heads up on what he was called..gives him an opportunity to defend himself.
Anything else?
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Cause I'm sure he's better than Kaep.
He had his chances, decided to play games again...boo hoo.
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Cause I'm sure he's better than Kaep.
Fairly certain a dude that’s been with them all season is a much better option for them than a dude that hasn’t played since 2016.
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He had his chances, decided to play games again...boo hoo.
Edit: Deleted to avoid any possibility of a devolving argument.
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Cause I'm sure he's better than Kaep.
I'd take a rookie quarterback over a 32 year old media circus who will be the center of attention for racism issues the moment your starting quarterback has a bad day.
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I'd take a rookie quarterback over a 32 year old media circus who will be the center of attention for racism issues the moment your starting quarterback has a bad day.
No one is surprised you would have this point of view.
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Trubisky is gonna have an unbelievable final five weeks of the season to play himself into another contract isn’t he?
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Trubisky is gonna have an unbelievable final five weeks of the season to play himself into another contract isn’t he?
No.
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Trubisky is gonna have an unbelievable final five weeks of the season to play himself into another contract isn’t he?
Highly unlikely. He was garbage for large parts of the game. He made a couple nice throws to Miller late, but it’s not like he was exceptional or even above average most of the game. Blough outplayed him for large stretches
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Real bad hands to the face call against Buffalo. Hands never got even near the face, and nullified an interception in Dallas territory.
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Trubisky is gonna have an unbelievable final five weeks of the season to play himself into another contract isn’t he?
We can only hope so. But even Pace isn’t dumb enough to double down.
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We can only hope so. But even Pace isn’t dumb enough to double down.
https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/11/29/bears-coach-on-his-quarterback-today-was-mitchs-day/
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Trubisky is gonna have an unbelievable final five weeks of the season to play himself into another contract isn’t he?
Only if they schedule more games against the Lions.
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Shaw arrested for gambling. Embarrassing.
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Shaw arrested for gambling. Embarrassing.
Arrested? Surely you mean suspended.
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Arrested? Surely you mean suspended.
It smells like a weird cover to pretend the account is a Cardinals fan from Chicago who followed the team from the way back olden days when they played in Chicago, and not Chicos. Nope, definitely not Chicos.
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This quote from Ron Rivera's press conference yesterday, the day after the Panthers' 4th straight loss -- and the third loss this season in which they were 1 yard away from a potential tying or go-ahead TD in the final minute -- is pretty poignant:
“Every loss you take personal. I take it personally because I felt like I let a lot of people down. Do I sleep well? No, I don’t. Do I think about things? Absolutely. Do I know how I get to work in the morning after a loss? No. All I know is I got in my car and next thing I know I’m at the stadium. Every one of them grinds me. That’s just the way it is because I feel responsible.”
Every coach of every sport at every level has experienced at least some of those emotions, and every coach of a losing team has experienced them all.
Adding to Rivera's angst is that he in all likelihood knows he will be fired after the season. I actually like Rivera, but it's probably time for a change.
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So the Packers only need to beat the three teams .500 and below remaining on their schedule to win the division - regardless of how they do against the Vikings.
Which means they will likely host a NFC Wild Card game against....the Vikings.
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So the Packers only need to beat the three teams .500 and below remaining on their schedule to win the division - regardless of how they do against the Vikings.
Which means they will likely host a NFC Wild Card game against....the Vikings.
The NFC playoffs are going to be a bloodbath. If you're not going to get a bye week, might be worth gunning for the 5th seed to play the NFC East.
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The Lions have done a near infinite amount of stupid stuff over the years. Not signing Kaepernick is just the most recent stupid thing. Although, being the Lions, something stupider will happen next week to make everyone forget this week's stupid.
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So the Packers only need to beat the three teams .500 and below remaining on their schedule to win the division - regardless of how they do against the Vikings.
Which means they will likely host a NFC Wild Card game against....the Vikings.
Yep. Really need to win that game @ Minnesota and get the bye. Unfortunately I don't think they will.
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The Lions have done a near infinite amount of stupid stuff over the years. Not signing Kaepernick is just the most recent stupid thing. Although, being the Lions, something stupider will happen next week to make everyone forget this week's stupid.
don't get me started. Though they have to look at the fact that they are slowly backing their way into one of the top three picks, and depending on who Cincy goes with at #1 and who could be ahead of them it could land them Chase Young, Kaep would probably win a game or two for them.
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Ron Rivera fired.
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Ron Rivera fired.
Yep. Just saw that.
https://www.panthers.com/news/carolina-panthers-part-ways-with-head-coach-ron-rivera
I thought he sounded especially introspective during his weekly Monday press conference. Knowing what we just learned, and reading it again, he sounded like a guy who already knew he was gone and said as much as he could without saying all of it.
I actually like this move by Tepper. It shows compassion. You're gonna fire the man, do it. Don't make him twist in the wind, answering reporters' questions, trying to put on a happy face for another month. That's what the previous Panthers regime did to John Fox. It was very unprofessional.
Plus, this lets the organization start planning for the future. Hopefully they will be ready to hire the best candidate out there as soon after the season as possible.
I didn't "know" Rivera but I spoke with him many times during his years as Lovie's defensive coordinator. Always liked his candor. I can see why players like him -- very much a player's coach. He will get another job very quickly, as a coordinator if not as a head coach, and I'll be surprised if he's not a head coach again in the not-too-distant future. He'd be good on TV, too.
Only time will tell if ...
Panthers better without Rivera..................................
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Yep. Just saw that.
https://www.panthers.com/news/carolina-panthers-part-ways-with-head-coach-ron-rivera
I thought he sounded especially introspective during his weekly Monday press conference. Knowing what we just learned, and reading it again, he sounded like a guy who already knew he was gone and said as much as he could without saying all of it.
I actually like this move by Tepper. It shows compassion. You're gonna fire the man, do it. Don't make him twist in the wind, answering reporters' questions, trying to put on a happy face for another month. That's what the previous Panthers regime did to John Fox. It was very unprofessional.
Plus, this lets the organization start planning for the future. Hopefully they will be ready to hire the best candidate out there as soon after the season as possible.
I didn't "know" Rivera but I spoke with him many times during his years as Lovie's defensive coordinator. Always liked his candor. I can see why players like him -- very much a player's coach. He will get another job very quickly, as a coordinator if not as a head coach, and I'll be surprised if he's not a head coach again in the not-too-distant future. He'd be good on TV, too.
Only time will tell if ...
Panthers better without Rivera..................................
Imagine how different things could have been if he'd started Kyle Allen week one.
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Congrats to new Panthers coach Mike McCarthy
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Panthers better off without Cam....
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Congrats to new Panthers coach Mike McCarthy
Still saying Atlanta.
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This is interesting .. current odds for next Panthers coach. I can't see any of these guys outside Roman and LaFleur.
Jim Harbaugh 3/1
Jason Garrett 5/1
Josh McDaniels 11/2
Dan Quinn, Urban Meyer 6/1
Greg Roman, Mike LaFleur 12/1
Jay Gruden 14/1
Doug Marrone 16/1
Pat Shurmur 18/1
Doug Pederson 20/1
Bill Cowher 100/1
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This is interesting .. current odds for next Panthers coach. I can't see any of these guys outside Roman and LaFleur.
Jim Harbaugh 3/1
Jason Garrett 5/1
Josh McDaniels 11/2
Dan Quinn, Urban Meyer 6/1
Greg Roman, Mike LaFleur 12/1
Jay Gruden 14/1
Doug Marrone 16/1
Pat Shurmur 18/1
Doug Pederson 20/1
Bill Cowher 100/1
A whole lot of failing upward in that list.
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This is interesting .. current odds for next Panthers coach. I can't see any of these guys outside Roman and LaFleur.
Jim Harbaugh 3/1
Jason Garrett 5/1
Josh McDaniels 11/2
Dan Quinn, Urban Meyer 6/1
Greg Roman, Mike LaFleur 12/1
Jay Gruden 14/1
Doug Marrone 16/1
Pat Shurmur 18/1
Doug Pederson 20/1
Bill Cowher 100/1
Ugh
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This is interesting .. current odds for next Panthers coach. I can't see any of these guys outside Roman and LaFleur.
Jim Harbaugh 3/1
Jason Garrett 5/1
Josh McDaniels 11/2
Dan Quinn, Urban Meyer 6/1
Greg Roman, Mike LaFleur 12/1
Jay Gruden 14/1
Doug Marrone 16/1
Pat Shurmur 18/1
Doug Pederson 20/1
Bill Cowher 100/1
last year was all about finding the next Sean McVay. Is there an HC out there right now everyone with an opening will want to find a clone of this year?
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Matt Patricia
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Matt Patricia
He said clone. Not clown.
;D
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Ugh
I’ll bet good money it is NOT Harbaugh. He’s not leaving Michigan
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Greg Olsen tweet:
“On the day I was traded to the @Panthers in 2011, every player who played for Ron in Chicago said the same thing to me on my way out: ‘You are going to play for a great coach, but a better man.’ I am so proud to have shared this 9 yr journey together with you @RiverboatRonHC.”
Classy.
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Rivera took over a team that went 2-14 the year before he arrived. First 7 years included 4 playoff berths, 3 division titles and a Super Bowl appearance. Also very active in the community, helped raise millions of dollars for hurricane victims.
“I really believe it was my responsibility to this organization and this community. My dad gave me a lesson in leadership when I first got the job. He said, ‘Ronnie – you’re the leader. And if all hell breaks loose, they are going to need you. You have to be steady, you have to be calm.’
"My dad got the bronze star in Vietnam for his actions during an attack. He was the only officer present during this attack, and he stepped up and led. I’ve always tried to remember that I had a responsibility to lead and be the same guy all the time.
“Great years. I absolutely enjoyed it. So many fond memories. I just think back to how much fun we had and how great it really was.”
Classy.
With a few notable exceptions, coaching stints have expiration dates. Even successful ones like Phil Jackson said change is good, both for the organization and the coach. It probably was time for Rivera to move on, but some team is gonna get a pretty darn good football coach. I hope the Panthers can get somebody as solid as Ron Rivera to replace him.
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He said clone. Not clown.
;D
Fact. Detroit would take Rivera in a nano second.
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Fact. Detroit would take Rivera in a nano second.
Are they thinking of dropping Patricia already? They seem to be the kings of firing coaches one or two years after everybody thinks they should.
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Are they thinking of dropping Patricia already? They seem to be the kings of firing coaches one or two years after everybody thinks they should.
I don't know. He is the handpicked coach of the GM and from the same New England tree. My gut says he gets one more year. The local media want him gone, pointing out that his predecessor got fired for winning 9 games his last season and the Lions haven't even come close to that the last two seasons. Supposedly a defensive genius, and the defense is a sieve.
I would take Rivera. I don't like Harbaugh. But if I were a betting man, I would put a tiny bit of money on one more year.
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I don't know. He is the handpicked coach of the GM and from the same New England tree. My gut says he gets one more year. The local media want him gone, pointing out that his predecessor got fired for winning 9 games his last season and the Lions haven't even come close to that the last two seasons. Supposedly a defensive genius, and the defense is a sieve.
I would take Rivera. I don't like Harbaugh. But if I were a betting man, I would put a tiny bit of money on one more year.
5 years to judge?
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Arrested? Surely you mean suspended.
Ahead of myself. Suspended. Discussion on the Cardinals forum of rumors he may have fixed games, which is illegal. Have not seen anything credible to validate rumors.
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For the Bears fans on this thread.
Parents Sign Up Mitch Trubisky For Rec Soccer Team In Hopes He’ll Develop Interest In Sports
https://sports.theonion.com/parents-sign-up-mitch-trubisky-for-rec-soccer-team-in-h-1840237493?utm_source=TheOnion_Daily_RSS&utm_medium=email
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Ahead of myself. Suspended. Discussion on the Cardinals forum of rumors he may have fixed games, which is illegal. Have not seen anything credible to validate rumors.
Fixed games while on the IR?
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Allen Robinson is having a hell of a year, he’s been really good.
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If a division winner is below .500, there should be a third wildcard team instead.
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This Dallas team is such a fraud. Total butt whipping tonight.
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Wow. Dallas is really bad. I’m sure throwing $25 mil per year at Dak will fix everything.
But, they have quit on Garrett. They aren’t even trying to get off blocks or make tackles.
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Beat me to it, Dish.
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I would be salivating for the 5 seed in the NFC.
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Get that money, Mitch!
Sincerely,
Packers fans
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Get that money, Mitch!
Sincerely,
Packers fans
I hear ya, GB.
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Get that money, Mitch!
Sincerely,
Packers fans
;D
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Speaking of money, Vegas is gonna make a killing on this game.
Apparently 80% of the bets were on the Cowboys. Dropped more money tonight on the Bears then I ever have on a game.
Easy money.
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But, they have quit on Garrett. They aren’t even trying to get off blocks or make tackles.
The defensive effort on Mitch’s TD run was worse than when teams are purposely letting the other team score in order to get the ball back
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The defensive effort on Mitch’s TD run was worse than when teams are purposely letting the other team score in order to get the ball back
After hearing Garrett is going to get fired over and over, the team could have rallied or shrugged their shoulders. They shrugged their soldiers. He’s gone
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And Jones is going to look back on the last few years as a wasted opportunity. I might be wrong about this, but since the Cowboys last went to the Super Bowl in 1995, I believe the only other teams to not make it back to the NFC Championship Game are the Lions and Redskins. Add the Vikings as one of four teams not to go to the Super Bowl.
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Clapping Ginger makes Mitch and Sam look like all pros....now that is some next level talent.
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And Jones is going to look back on the last few years as a wasted opportunity. I might be wrong about this, but since the Cowboys last went to the Super Bowl in 1995, I believe the only other teams to not make it back to the NFC Championship Game are the Lions and Redskins. Add the Vikings as one of four teams not to go to the Super Bowl.
Agree with this.
I don't like knee-jerk coach firings. I think repeated changes there create organization-wide problems that can take years (or even decades) to overcome.
However, the exact opposite happened in Dallas, where underperformance has been accepted for pretty much Garrett's entire time there.
83-66 with zero playoff wins for an entire Lost Decade. Makes ya wonder what Garrett has on Jones.
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You guys are all missing the reason Garrett has been there so long. He’s zero threat to Jerry from a personnel standpoint. There’s no powerplay there at all. There’s no better owner/GM/Head Coach relationship in the NFL than in Dallas. To the outside world it might not make sense, but internally they are all on the same page.
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You guys are all missing the reason Garrett has been there so long. He’s zero threat to Jerry from a personnel standpoint. There’s no powerplay there at all. There’s no better owner/GM/Head Coach relationship in the NFL than in Dallas. To the outside world it might not make sense, but internally they are all on the same page.
That actually makes a lot of sense.
But certainly he could find a better coach who would similarly have a relatively small role in personnel.
For example, Rivera might not agree to that kind of situation now, but he was in that exact situation when the Panthers hired him in 2011. There are good people out there. I would think by now even "change for the sake of change" would appeal to JJ.
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You guys are all missing the reason Garrett has been there so long. He’s zero threat to Jerry from a personnel standpoint. There’s no powerplay there at all. There’s no better owner/GM/Head Coach relationship in the NFL than in Dallas. To the outside world it might not make sense, but internally they are all on the same page.
Oh I fully understand *why* Jerry has kept him around. I just think that Jerry has regrets that he did so without any meaningful results.
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Oh I fully understand *why* Jerry has kept him around. I just think that Jerry has regrets that he did so without any meaningful results.
Does Jerry really care about winning though? I'm sure he wants to win, but I think Jerry likes that it's the family business, being in the limelight, keeping the Cowboys in the news. I mean what other owner is also a GM, routinely does press conferences after every game, and has his own radio segment?
I'm not saying Jerry doesn't want to win, he does, but in his Maslow Hierarchy of Needs, I honestly don't think winning is at the top of his needs.
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Dish:
I just now noticed your signature line and it cracked me up. Well done.
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Does Jerry really care about winning though? I'm sure he wants to win, but I think Jerry likes that it's the family business, being in the limelight, keeping the Cowboys in the news. I mean what other owner is also a GM, routinely does press conferences after every game, and has his own radio segment?
I'm not saying Jerry doesn't want to win, he does, but in his Maslow Hierarchy of Needs, I honestly don't think winning is at the top of his needs.
Do not agree. I work a ton with the Cowboys and he wants to win very badly. His ego is massive and helm what he doesn’t want to admit is the hierarchy there has failed for decades. They haven’t won a title or even played in a NFC title game since Johnson’s players retired. Johnson is seen as the architect and Jones wants to prove he was or has the ability to do it now.
I agree 100% with you on Garrett being zero threat, but that’s because Jerry wants to be the GM. Brining in a competent coach means exploiting Jones as the GM. For diehard Cowboys fans we have been saying this for a long time.
I was in Green Bay at the game when Dallas lost with Wade Phillips. Next day Garrett was hired. He’s a good assistant, a nice guy, but they walk all over him.
Jerry is getting long in the tooth, and I agree he is starting to regret the thrown away opportunities. But over paying certain stars has meant little depth...a game plan of the last 20 years...sadly.
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Panthers miss Cam Newton
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Panthers miss Cam Newton
Nah. Better without him....
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Nah. Better without him....
November....2018...last time Cam won a NFL regular season game. Busted up Cam is worth zero wins. Playable Cam, per Panthers, was also worth zero wins.
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Nah. Better without him....
Some fools actually believe that
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Packers WR are so bad.
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I need a cigarette after that Niners/Saints game.
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Panthers miss Cam Newton
You forgot the 87-dot ellipsis that you later can claim suggests something entirely different from what you said.
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Roquan out for the year.
How much more duct tape can hold together the injury-riddled Bears D?
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You forgot the 87-dot ellipsis that you later can claim suggests something entirely different from what you said.
Or you can just read what I said...I even highlighted it several times for you. Healthy Allen better than hurt Newton, despite idiots running Panthers that thought otherwise. Healthy Allen with victories, Newton with none in over a year.
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Or you can just read what I said...I even highlighted it several times for you. Healthy Allen better than hurt Newton, despite idiots running Panthers that thought otherwise. Healthy Allen with victories, Newton with none in over a year.
Except that isn't what you said...
....
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Except that isn't what you said...
....
Yup, provided to you multiple times...you just don’t like to read.
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Yup, provided to you multiple times...you just don’t like to read.
That’s not what you said....at all....then when called out on your stupidity you shifted goalposts....and played the victim card....as always....
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That’s not what you said....at all....then when called out on your stupidity you shifted goalposts....and played the victim card....as always....
Hoopachico's wouldn't lie, would he?
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Or you can just read what I said...I even highlighted it several times for you. Healthy Allen better than hurt Newton, despite idiots running Panthers that thought otherwise. Healthy Allen with victories, Newton with none in over a year.
Except that isn't what you said until you were called on it. It was only then that you claimed that your kinda-ellipsis meant what you said above.
BTW, as you know (since you know everything), players play injured all the time in all sports, especially football. For one of a zillion examples, Jim McMahon was hurting much of the Bears' championship season; he even came off the bench in one game to lead a comeback win even though doctors had recommended he not play.
It has since come out that Newton insisted that he could still play, and he moved well enough in practice that the Panthers thought they could execute most of their offense with him out there. They thought even a 75-80% Cam would be better than a kid who had barely played college football and who had only played one NFL game the previous season against a team that had already clinched the best overall record and wasn't even trying. (One certainly could argue that the Panthers should have had a more proven backup.)
Newton also was cleared by two physicians -- though maybe those guys were the kind of doctors who give fake prognoses, like you're always writing about.
There isn't a soul disputing that a Cam who really couldn't move was better than any QB who could function. If only that had been what you said instead of instigating and going for shock value so you could argue about it for months and months.
The Panthers have some difficult decisions to make at the QB position. If I were among their personnel people and owner, it would be hard for me to be convinced that Kyle Allen is the long-term answer.
Steelers better without Big Ben........................................
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Man, the Patriots sure make it easy for a person to root against them.
The “tell them it’s for a team show” is straight out of their SpyGate playbook.
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Man, the Patriots sure make it easy for a person to root against them.
The “tell them it’s for a team show” is straight out of their SpyGate playbook.
I personally like the “it’s the Bengals, they are terrible, why would they need to cheat”. Oh idk, maybe it’s just standard operating procedure every week for the Pats and they just got busted during the prep week for a terrible team
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Man, the Patriots sure make it easy for a person to root against them.
The “tell them it’s for a team show” is straight out of their SpyGate playbook.
Cheaters gonna cheat.
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Video Jay Glazer got is very damning to the Pats.
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Video Jay Glazer got is very damning to the Pats.
Should be eliminated from the playoffs this year.
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Panthers could use Cam Newton
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Panthers could use Cam Newton
Nah. Panthers better without $cam...
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Second of the semi annual Bears down post.
The Packers have to be the worst 11-3 team in the history of football.
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Allen Robinson would have scored easily with one more lateral.
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Allen Robinson would have scored easily with one more lateral.
Yup, that and that god awful call in the first quarter that shoulda been a fumble for the Bears.
Bears through away plenty of other opportunities but that sucked.
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Second of the semi annual Bears down post.
The Packers have to be the worst 11-3 team in the history of football.
How many games this season has the offense died in the 4th Quarter?
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Dallas won the toss and elected to kick. So they will kick off to start both halves. Awesome.
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Yup, that and that god awful call in the first quarter that shoulda been a fumble for the Bears.
Bears through away plenty of other opportunities but that sucked.
Boo hoo. Whining about refs is what losers do which of course is what the Bears are.
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Dallas won the toss and elected to kick. So they will kick off to start both halves. Awesome.
nope
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Boo hoo. Whining about refs is what losers do which of course is what the Bears are.
Blaming others is the Matt Nagy Way.
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Dallas won the toss and elected to kick. So they will kick off to start both halves. Awesome.
Nope, the refs stepped on their johnson and then had to fix it at halftime. He clearly said defer, but the ref didn't hear it. Fortunately they corrected it.
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Nope, the refs stepped on their johnson and then had to fix it at halftime. He clearly said defer, but the ref didn't hear it. Fortunately they corrected it.
The coin flip was reversed at halftime by NY after video/audio review after they watched it on Fox. Is a coin flip reviewable? 😂
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The coin flip was reversed at halftime by NY after video/Audi review after they watched it on Fox. Is a coin flip reviewable? 😂
Apparently so. I texted my NFL peers right after the game started and was ribbing them. Social media blew up with everyone hearing Prescott say DEFER that they had to correct it. Glad they got it right.
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Apparently so. I texted my NFL peers right after the game started and was ribbing them. Social media blew up with everyone hearing Prescott say DEFER that they had to correct it. Glad they got it right.
Wait. I thought your work confiscated all cell phones from all employees during NFL Sundays? Or is that only the NFL Sundays you conveniently need an excuse to be away from MUScoop?
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Wait. I thought your work confiscated all cell phones from all employees during NFL Sundays? Or is that only the NFL Sundays you conveniently need an excuse to be away from MUScoop?
LOL...only when down at the broadcast center. I wasn't at the broadcast center today, I was home as I'm sure my IP address will verify.
How did the Big Ten do in volleyball? And tell me again about the Dayton recruits and who recruited them for men's basketball?
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Nah. Panthers better without $cam...
Cam 0 Wins in 2019. 0 wins in 13 months for that matter. In 2019, 0 TDs thrown, 1 int. 2 losses. Winning % of 0.000 QB rating in the 70's
Allen 5 wins in 2019. 16 TDs thrown to 12 INTS. 7 losses. Winning % of .416. QB rating in the 80's. Should be 6-6 under him, but their kicked screwed the pooch.
Wonder where Cam plays next year...what do you think?
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Wait. I thought your work confiscated all cell phones from all employees during NFL Sundays? Or is that only the NFL Sundays you conveniently need an excuse to be away from MUScoop?
Another week ban right here.
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LOL...only when down at the broadcast center. I wasn't at the broadcast center today, I was home as I'm sure my IP address will verify.
How did the Big Ten do in volleyball? And tell me again about the Dayton recruits and who recruited them for men's basketball?
Ahh. Go to the IP address when it works out for you. But when it shows hoopaloop is Cheeks...no no no, beer and dinner and free Disney tickets to a complete stranger! And even WiFi passwords!
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Ahh. Go to the IP address when it works out for you. But when it shows hoopaloop is Cheeks...no no no, beer and dinner and free Disney tickets to a complete stranger! And even WiFi passwords!
It's ok to just admit you were wrong, really...try it. Been at home all day. Mowed the front and back lawn. Some pretty good winds last night required me to adjust some of the lights and decorations. My wife and daughter worked today so it was just my son and I watching football from home. It's ok, you can just admit you were wrong...you can do it. You hold me to a standard...let's see you hold yourself to the same standard.
(https://media.giphy.com/media/xT9DPIBYf0pAviBLzO/giphy.gif)
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It's ok to just admit you were wrong, really...try it. Been at home all day. Mowed the front and back lawn. Some pretty good winds last night required me to adjust some of the lights and decorations. My wife and daughter worked today so it was just my son and I watching football from home. It's ok, you can just admit you were wrong...you can do it. You hold me to a standard...let's see you hold yourself to the same standard.
(https://media.giphy.com/media/xT9DPIBYf0pAviBLzO/giphy.gif)
What am I wrong on exactly?
The irony is so rich lol. Here’s a guy who comes on here promising to not be around very often and then has over 6,500 posts in just over his “first” (of this his 5th username) year. I can’t imagine what being around often would look like if this is you not being around here very often. And why? Because you spend a full day on a thread trying to argue with literally everyone about how right you were to back the NCAA and the great job they’re doing. Lol.
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What am I wrong on exactly?
The irony is so rich lol. Here’s a guy who comes on here promising to not be around very often and then has over 6,500 posts in just over his “first” (of this his 5th username) year. I can’t imagine what being around often would look like if this is you not being around here very often. And why? Because you spend a full day on a thread trying to argue with literally everyone about how right you were to back the NCAA and the great job they’re doing. Lol.
You are wrong about implying I was there today and the phone confiscation. If I was there, sure...but I wasn’t. This you were wrong.
The irony goes both ways. Looks like 4400 posts to me, but who is counting or maybe the counter only counts some...don't really care.
Last I checked, it takes at least two to argue....hmm.
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You are wrong about implying I was there today and the phone confiscation. If I was there, sure...but I wasn’t. This you were wrong.
The irony goes both ways. Looks like 4400 posts to me, but who is counting or maybe the counter only counts some...don't really care.
Last I checked, it takes at least two to argue....hmm.
I was asking a question. You can’t really be right or wrong when you’re asking a question...
Go to “show posts.” Go to page 261 (SHEESH!). Looks like 6,519 posts. In just over a year! This from a guy who was simply making his 5th? 6th? 7th? Username because all the previous ones were permanently banned to respond because he saw a picture of himself on MUScoop but not to worry, he will “keep [his] appearances limited.”
LOLLLLLLLLLLL! Really keeping your word there.
Will you admit you were wrong? Hmmm...
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why?
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I was asking a question. You can’t really be right or wrong when you’re asking a question...
Go to “show posts.” Go to page 261 (SHEESH!). Looks like 6,519 posts. In just over a year! This from a guy who was simply making his 5th? 6th? 7th? Username because all the previous ones were permanently banned to respond because he saw a picture of himself on MUScoop but not to worry, he will “keep [his] appearances limited.”
LOLLLLLLLLLLL! Really keeping your word there.
Will you admit you were wrong? Hmmm...
Didn’t feel like you were asking a question...especially with your accusatory follow-up question...but ok.
I see the post count here in this thread and it shows 4400 and change. It must not add them all up when displaying within the thread... that’s cool...thanks for pointing out...much appreciated.
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Stay on topic.
Bills clinch a playoff berth. In a weird way, they are kind of a fun team.
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It's ok to just admit you were wrong, really...try it. Been at home all day. Mowed the front and back lawn. Some pretty good winds last night required me to adjust some of the lights and decorations. My wife and daughter worked today so it was just my son and I watching football from home. It's ok, you can just admit you were wrong...you can do it. You hold me to a standard...let's see you hold yourself to the same standard.
I'm glad to hear that you think it is important to admit when you were wrong.
https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=59503.msg1182618#msg1182618
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I see the post count here in this thread and it shows 4400 and change. It must not add them all up when displaying within the thread... that’s cool...thanks for pointing out...much appreciated.
I believe the post counts under our names only count Hanging at the Al posts. Superbar posts don't count. Not sure about the other sections.
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Boo hoo. Whining about refs is what losers do which of course is what the Bears are.
I mean, a fumble and Bears possession literally turned into 7 points for the Packers.
But Packers fans have never once complained about officiating for one game let alone talked about one single call in a certain week 3 for an entire season. Right?
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Didn’t feel like you were asking a question...especially with your accusatory follow-up question...but ok.
I see the post count here in this thread and it shows 4400 and change. It must not add them all up when displaying within the thread... that’s cool...thanks for pointing out...much appreciated.
So after claiming someone can’t admit they were wrong because of a question he asked and lecturing him on how it’s okay to admit he was wrong, Cheeks can’t admit he was wrong. Sad.
Definitely keeping his appearances limited. Only 6,500 posts in 1 year. Very limited indeed.
Was Cheeks wrong? Tune in to find out.
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I mean, a fumble and Bears possession literally turned into 7 points for the Packers.
But Packers fans have never once complained about officiating for one game let alone talked about one single call in a certain week 3 for an entire season. Right?
You do know the fumble wasn't in the end zone. The Packers still had to complete a drive to score. Maybe the "awesome" Bears defense should have stopped the drive. You can go through the entire game and find calls that would have changed the game for both sides. The fumble on the punt could have been called leading with the helmet as well.
Of course fans complain about refs, that's what they do, but don't whine about losing a game because of a missed call. I am not talking about the average fan I am addressing you specifically. Take your loss like a man. As far as the Seattle call a few years ago, that was a little different circumstance.
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The NFL clearly messaged up the coin toss reversal. The Cowboys clearly say they want to defend, they want to kick, and chose a direction they want to kick. That direction was granted. After all that Dak does say "defer," but that doesn't change their selections that were granted.
Cowboys should not have gotten the ball to start off the 2nd half. The NFL shouldn't have intervened.
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The NFL clearly messaged up the coin toss reversal. The Cowboys clearly say they want to defend, they want to kick, and chose a direction they want to kick. That direction was granted. After all that Dak does say "defer," but that doesn't change their selections that were granted.
Cowboys should not have gotten the ball to start off the 2nd half. The NFL shouldn't have intervened.
It's really not that big of a deal. Mike Peirera mentioned that referees usually do more to verify intent at that time. It didn't make any difference in the game outcome.
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The NFL clearly messaged up the coin toss reversal. The Cowboys clearly say they want to defend, they want to kick, and chose a direction they want to kick. That direction was granted. After all that Dak does say "defer," but that doesn't change their selections that were granted.
Cowboys should not have gotten the ball to start off the 2nd half. The NFL shouldn't have intervened.
Apparently, by rule, it is reviewable.
NFL senior vice president of officiating Al Riveron sent word that Dallas was to receive after halftime and Prescott's request to "defer" would be honored. After the game, Riveron explained why he overturned the original call -- Anderson having believed Prescott wanted to kick, as opposed to defer.
"Well, it's specific to the rule," Riveron said. "Under Rule 15 for replay, Section 3, Article 9, and I'm paraphrasing now, it says we can get involved, replay can, as far as game administration issues -- downs, enforcements, things like that. So by rule, we can get involved. This is a game administration issue, not a judgement call, for example. And we have definitive audio that refers to deferring."
https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/nfl-releases-statement-on-coin-flip-controversy-in-cowboys-win-over-rams-we-had-definitive-audio/
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The NFL clearly messaged up the coin toss reversal. The Cowboys clearly say they want to defend, they want to kick, and chose a direction they want to kick. That direction was granted. After all that Dak does say "defer," but that doesn't change their selections that were granted.
Cowboys should not have gotten the ball to start off the 2nd half. The NFL shouldn't have intervened.
Not exactly
https://www.latimes.com/sports/rams/story/2019-12-16/dallas-cowboys-rams-coin-flip-dak-prescott-refs
Just listen to the audio...after he asks Prescott to confirm he says DEFER and the ref instead says kick. Proper call to change which they did.
https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/nfl-releases-statement-on-coin-flip-controversy-in-cowboys-win-over-rams-we-had-definitive-audio/
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You do know the fumble wasn't in the end zone. The Packers still had to complete a drive to score. Maybe the "awesome" Bears defense should have stopped the drive. You can go through the entire game and find calls that would have changed the game for both sides. The fumble on the punt could have been called leading with the helmet as well.
Of course fans complain about refs, that's what they do, but don't whine about losing a game because of a missed call. I am not talking about the average fan I am addressing you specifically. Take your loss like a man. As far as the Seattle call a few years ago, that was a little different circumstance.
Be more of an arrogant tool. Jeez. He doesn't blame the refs. He literally called out 2 frustrating turns of events. And then follows it up by saying the Bears threw away plenty of chances. You seem like an absolute joy to talk sports with.
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Question on the final play. I thought the play is basically dead once the ball hits the ground. I thought on one of the early laterals, the Bear dropped it and picked it up. Wouldn’t that be where they can’t advance the ball from that point? The fumble is why they needed a Packer to touch it at that 1 yard line.
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Question on the final play. I thought the play is basically dead once the ball hits the ground. I thought on one of the early laterals, the Bear dropped it and picked it up. Wouldn’t that be where they can’t advance the ball from that point? The fumble is why they needed a Packer to touch it at that 1 yard line.
I think the only person who can pick it up and advance it is the one who fumbled it. And that's what happened when Mitch dropped the ball. But I don't know if that rule is actually in effect at that point.
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Be more of an arrogant tool. Jeez. He doesn't blame the refs. He literally called out 2 frustrating turns of events. And then follows it up by saying the Bears threw away plenty of chances. You seem like an absolute joy to talk sports with.
It was an absolute textbook play by Patterson. He did not lead with his helmet, he squared up with his shoulder and timed it perfectly. It was an idiotic decision not to fair catch it.
Bears didn’t score enough TD’s, can’t win on FG’s.
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I think the only person who can pick it up and advance it is the one who fumbled it. And that's what happened when Mitch dropped the ball. But I don't know if that rule is actually in effect at that point.
I thought that was only on a forward fumble but a backward fumble anyone can advance. Could be wrong
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I thought that was only on a forward fumble but a backward fumble anyone can advance. Could be wrong
FUMBLE AFTER TWO-MINUTE WARNING Article 6 Fumble After Two-Minute Warning.
If a fumble by either team occurs after the two-minute warning: (a) The ball may be advanced by any opponent. (b) The player who fumbled is the only player of his team who is permitted to recover and advance the ball. (c) If the recovery or catch is by a teammate of the player who fumbled, the ball is dead, and the spot of the next snap is the spot of the fumble, or the spot of the recovery if the spot of the recovery is behind the spot of the fumble
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FUMBLE AFTER TWO-MINUTE WARNING Article 6 Fumble After Two-Minute Warning.
If a fumble by either team occurs after the two-minute warning: (a) The ball may be advanced by any opponent. (b) The player who fumbled is the only player of his team who is permitted to recover and advance the ball. (c) If the recovery or catch is by a teammate of the player who fumbled, the ball is dead, and the spot of the next snap is the spot of the fumble, or the spot of the recovery if the spot of the recovery is behind the spot of the fumble
So let's say that Tramon Williams wasn't able to recover that fumble at the end, and it squirted into the end zone. Could the Bears have scored a TD if it had touched a Packer? It looks as though it wouldn't have mattered as long as the FB who fumbled it wasn't the one who recovered it.
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So let's say that Tramon Williams wasn't able to recover that fumble at the end, and it squirted into the end zone. Could the Bears have scored a TD if it had touched a Packer? It looks as though it wouldn't have mattered as long as the FB who fumbled it wasn't the one who recovered it.
What’s more interesting is Horsted’s fumble hit a Packer’s foot actually...which propelled it forward before Williams recovered it. The Bears receivers obviously knew the rule about the forward fumble and recovery as they didn’t pounce...but I think they thought Horsted fumbled it forward.
That might have been litigated for decades.
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What’s more interesting is Horsted’s fumble hit a Packer’s foot actually...which propelled it forward before Williams recovered it. The Bears receivers obviously knew the rule about the forward fumble and recovery as they didn’t pounce...but I think they thought Horsted fumbled it forward.
That might have been litigated for decades.
So if a Packer touches it, and because of that the ball advances, and a Bear recovers it, does it go back to where the fumble occurred or to where they recover it?
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So if a Packer touches it, and because of that the ball advances, and a Bear recovers it, does it go back to where the fumble occurred or to where they recover it?
I personally think it’s where the Packer touched it as he didn’t recover it...it just hit his foot. That said, who knows which is the interesting thing...and I am sure it would have been a 20 minute review even among the experts. Crazy play.
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So if a Packer touches it, and because of that the ball advances, and a Bear recovers it, does it go back to where the fumble occurred or to where they recover it?
I believe it's a dead ball because a Packer merely touching the ball wouldn't qualify as a change of possession.
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Btw, I found this interesting article on the rules named after players...this one is the Stabler Rule. I blurted that out as we watched this and my SIL was stumped. Time for a sweater vest.
https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/26939/11-nfl-rules-named-after-people
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It's ok to just admit you were wrong, really...try it. Been at home all day. Mowed the front and back lawn. Some pretty good winds last night required me to adjust some of the lights and decorations. My wife and daughter worked today so it was just my son and I watching football from home. It's ok, you can just admit you were wrong...you can do it. You hold me to a standard...let's see you hold yourself to the same standard.
(https://media.giphy.com/media/xT9DPIBYf0pAviBLzO/giphy.gif)
So, after this post about how okay it is to admit you are wrong (despite me asking a question...), will we see Cheeks, you know, actually admit he is wrong for once?
Wrong about post count (you're up over 6,500, not down at 4,400 or whatever it was). Wrong about being here a "limited" amount of time. Unless 6,500...or hell, even 4,400...posts in just over a year is "limited" for Cheeks. Then I will be the one to admit I was wrong here. But, that seems like an ABSURD amount of time spent on Scoop, and this is coming from someone who already spends an absurd amount of time on MUScoop.
Can the man do it? Will he admit he was wrong?
Stay tuned. (Actually don't, because Cheeks will conveniently ignore this post. Maybe he's at the broadcast center today and had his phone, computer, etc. confiscated.)
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FUMBLE AFTER TWO-MINUTE WARNING Article 6 Fumble After Two-Minute Warning.
If a fumble by either team occurs after the two-minute warning: (a) The ball may be advanced by any opponent. (b) The player who fumbled is the only player of his team who is permitted to recover and advance the ball. (c) If the recovery or catch is by a teammate of the player who fumbled, the ball is dead, and the spot of the next snap is the spot of the fumble, or the spot of the recovery if the spot of the recovery is behind the spot of the fumble
So I'm going to complicate this further because I just watched the play again.....is it actually a fumble on Trubisky or is it a fumble on the player who lateraled it? Mitch doesn't catch the lateral, it hits his hands then hits the ground where he then picks it up. So he never established initial possession so is it his fumble or the previous player's who had possession? If the latter then the ball is should be dead where Mitch doesn't catch it, but overall good officiating to let the play roll then figure it out in replay if necessary.
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So I'm going to complicate this further because I just watched the play again.....is it actually a fumble on Trubisky or is it a fumble on the player who lateraled it? Mitch doesn't catch the lateral, it hits his hands then hits the ground where he then picks it up. So he never established initial possession so is it his fumble or the previous player's who had possession? If the latter then the ball is should be dead where Mitch doesn't catch it, but overall good officiating to let the play roll then figure it out in replay if necessary.
Good catch. Would it be treated the same as a fumbled handoff? Or since it’s a lateral, is it up to scorer discretion like an error.
Thanks everyone for the response to my question.
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FUMBLE AFTER TWO-MINUTE WARNING Article 6 Fumble After Two-Minute Warning.
If a fumble by either team occurs after the two-minute warning: (a) The ball may be advanced by any opponent. (b) The player who fumbled is the only player of his team who is permitted to recover and advance the ball. (c) If the recovery or catch is by a teammate of the player who fumbled, the ball is dead, and the spot of the next snap is the spot of the fumble, or the spot of the recovery if the spot of the recovery is behind the spot of the fumble
turns out I was wrong! thanks
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Be more of an arrogant tool. Jeez. He doesn't blame the refs. He literally called out 2 frustrating turns of events. And then follows it up by saying the Bears threw away plenty of chances. You seem like an absolute joy to talk sports with.
Well I guess you told me. Strong name calling to someone you never met before. Nice job.
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Well I guess you told me. Strong name calling to someone you never met before. Nice job.
He's not wrong.
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He's not wrong.
Yeah I read some of your posts maybe worry about yourself
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Only thing missing from that last Pack-Bears play was a marching band.
https://youtube.com/v/6nC55Kv2sKM
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That is interesting Eng. Thank goodness ol' man Williams finally put an end to it. I've watched the replay enough to appreciate that a number of guys deserve to get their arse chewed out in film today for their passivity. Brutal. Go knock someone down for cripes sake.
What's crazy is that I actually remember that Oakland play that ended up necessitating the fumble rule being discussed.
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I too was shocked how passive the Packers were on that last play, watching it live and replay multiple times, there were far too many guys just standing around. It wasn't like the play started at the other end of the field either, there was only 40 yards to cover to the goal line, and the play slowly developed.
Bears still needed to convert a two point conversion if they would have made it, and that would only have got the game to OT. Just gut feeling, but I didn't see the Bears making the Hail Lateral work, get the conversion, and win in OT, that's just me.
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Well I guess you told me. Strong name calling to someone you never met before. Nice job.
Yet you have no problem calling someone a loser for their opinion about a game and then calling out their apparent lack of manhood after they explained themselves :o
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Josh Gordon suspended indefinitely. Again.
Guessing that's a career ender.
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Josh Gordon suspended indefinitely. Again.
Guessing that's a career ender.
Gordon and his persistent pot problem signing with Seattle, home of legal weed (something I support but the NFL does not). Wow, who didn't see that coming?
Next stop: Vegas Raiders.
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November....2018...last time Cam won a NFL regular season game. Busted up Cam is worth zero wins. Playable Cam, per Panthers, was also worth zero wins.
two games they played with him. Hardly a fair sample size.
And it looks like Brandon Allen is no longer the future of the franchise: https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/28314089/panthers-go-grier-qb-colts
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Gordon and his persistent pot problem signing with Seattle, home of legal weed (something I support but the NFL does not). Wow, who didn't see that coming?
Next stop: Vegas Raiders.
There are zero cities in which an NFL player would struggle to acquire weed.
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There are zero cities in which an NFL player would struggle to acquire weed.
agree, but when there are dispensaries all over the place it makes it a hell of a lot easier for someone like Gordon.
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Just gonna throw these out there for discussion’s sake, my best value bets heading into season. All lines from Bovada. I don’t necessarily predict these things will happen, but like the value.
Bills +300 to make playoffs
I like their schedule, they honestly should start 3-0, and then get the Pats at home. Josh Allen was sneaky good down the stretch last year.
Offensive Rookie of the Year - Miles Sanders +1600
I’m not buying Kyler Murray stock in 2019, I think the Cardinals are going to be a train wreck. I think Sanders becomes the lead back in Philly in an offense that will be putting up leads early and he’ll get a big workload.
Vikings +240 to win NFC North
I won’t be surprised at who wins the North, but there’s too much value here to ignore.
Texans +285 to win AFC South
This is my favorite on the board. Is Andrew Luck ok? Even if he is ok, are the Colts that much better than the Texans? Duke Johnson might be better than Lamar Miller, or the Texans have the cap space to trade for Melvin Gordon.
I wish I had actually bet some of these.
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Damn. That Colts TD knocked me out of my fantasy league. I entered the night 10.1 points behind and only the Saints D left in action. The shutout with one sack would have won it for me.
Damn.
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I'm somehow in the finals with my ragtag team that have been hurt off and on all year. Probably going into the finals without Dalvin Cook though...
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Gordon and his persistent pot problem signing with Seattle, home of legal weed (something I support but the NFL does not). Wow, who didn't see that coming?
Next stop: Vegas Raiders.
ESPN said it was "performance enhancing drugs". Other than the Tombstone Eating Competition, I don't think this one was on the Holy Herb.
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two games they played with him. Hardly a fair sample size.
And it looks like Brandon Allen is no longer the future of the franchise: https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/28314089/panthers-go-grier-qb-colts
His name is Kyle Allen, and he has been quite horrible most of the second half of the season. Might as well take a look at the kid they drafted in the third round (Will Grier out of WVU). Along with McCaffrey setting more records, the Panthers have nothing else to play for.
The Panthers have an interesting choice. If they are convinced that Cam has healed well from surgery and that he can be anything close to the old Cam, $21 million is actually a decent price for a franchise QB. If they are convinced he is not the right guy for the future, they can cut him and save about $19 from the salary cap.
Allen has had a few good games, but he is mistake prone -- he is Cutler/Trubisky, without the howitzer arm. If you are serious about winning next season, not sure how you can go into it with Allen at QB. If you are into the tanking thing, sure, go with him or Grier.
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So, after this post about how okay it is to admit you are wrong (despite me asking a question...), will we see Cheeks, you know, actually admit he is wrong for once?
Wrong about post count (you're up over 6,500, not down at 4,400 or whatever it was). Wrong about being here a "limited" amount of time. Unless 6,500...or hell, even 4,400...posts in just over a year is "limited" for Cheeks. Then I will be the one to admit I was wrong here. But, that seems like an ABSURD amount of time spent on Scoop, and this is coming from someone who already spends an absurd amount of time on MUScoop.
Can the man do it? Will he admit he was wrong?
Stay tuned. (Actually don't, because Cheeks will conveniently ignore this post. Maybe he's at the broadcast center today and had his phone, computer, etc. confiscated.)
Absolutely hysterical. Cheeks, that’s right, CHEEKS of all people, lectures somebody else on it being okay to admit you are wrong. All while Cheeks is the one who is wrong! And when called out on being wrong and asked if he will admit he is wrong given his lecture, does Cheeks do so? Of course he’s nowhere to be found in the thread!
Let me guess, DirecTV confiscated his phone and blocked the NFL thread!
Cheeks is a joke.
I honestly feel bad for the guy. His need to name drop overcomes his need to focus on his family as his love letter he posted on here claimed.
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So, after this post about how okay it is to admit you are wrong (despite me asking a question...), will we see Cheeks, you know, actually admit he is wrong for once?
Wrong about post count (you're up over 6,500, not down at 4,400 or whatever it was). Wrong about being here a "limited" amount of time. Unless 6,500...or hell, even 4,400...posts in just over a year is "limited" for Cheeks. Then I will be the one to admit I was wrong here. But, that seems like an ABSURD amount of time spent on Scoop, and this is coming from someone who already spends an absurd amount of time on MUScoop.
Can the man do it? Will he admit he was wrong?
Stay tuned. (Actually don't, because Cheeks will conveniently ignore this post. Maybe he's at the broadcast center today and had his phone, computer, etc. confiscated.)
Not sure why you say for once? I have admitted I am wrong countless times here.
Happy to do it again here. I explained, on the posts under the name in the thread it says 4400...happy to provide a screenshot. Apparently other posts are added to the total of you go elsewhere in Scoop to get a more complete total. Happy to admit I am wrong on that, but hope you also understand when it lists posts under my name at 4,400 you can see why I said 4,400 because it says...4,400. I appreciate you pointing out that the number displayed is incorrect there and you need to go to a different part to get the true number.
Didn’t ignore the post at all. You going to apologize for that and say you were wrong? LOL.
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Absolutely hysterical. Cheeks, that’s right, CHEEKS of all people, lectures somebody else on it being okay to admit you are wrong. All while Cheeks is the one who is wrong! And when called out on being wrong and asked if he will admit he is wrong given his lecture, does Cheeks do so? Of course he’s nowhere to be found in the thread!
Let me guess, DirecTV confiscated his phone and blocked the NFL thread!
Cheeks is a joke.
I honestly feel bad for the guy. His need to name drop overcomes his need to focus on his family as his love letter he posted on here claimed.
You have made your position well known here, your attacks regarding a deeply personal time in my life and totally misstating it were pretty sickening and you continue to do it, but it is what it is with you.
God bless.
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Mutterings that Stafford may be done. Lions may be in the QB market. Whoever they sign... poor bastard.
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Done as in retiring, either due to injury or to Barry Sanderitis?
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Done as in retiring, either due to injury or to Barry Sanderitis?
31, $200MM in cash contract earnings alone, 3 young kids and a wife who has been battling some gnarly health issues this year, in addition to his nagging injuries? Measured against playing another few seasons with a team and franchise with no direction and horrible ownership? I completely get the argument for him pulling a Sanders/Megatron
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31, $200MM in cash contract earnings alone, 3 young kids and a wife who has been battling some gnarly health issues this year, in addition to his nagging injuries? Measured against playing another few seasons with a team and franchise with no direction and horrible ownership? I completely get the argument for him pulling a Sanders/Megatron
Boy, if Detroit made an all-early retirement team they would be pretty darn good.
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His name is Kyle Allen, and he has been quite horrible most of the second half of the season. Might as well take a look at the kid they drafted in the third round (Will Grier out of WVU). Along with McCaffrey setting more records, the Panthers have nothing else to play for.
The Panthers have an interesting choice. If they are convinced that Cam has healed well from surgery and that he can be anything close to the old Cam, $21 million is actually a decent price for a franchise QB. If they are convinced he is not the right guy for the future, they can cut him and save about $19 from the salary cap.
Allen has had a few good games, but he is mistake prone -- he is Cutler/Trubisky, without the howitzer arm. If you are serious about winning next season, not sure how you can go into it with Allen at QB. If you are into the tanking thing, sure, go with him or Grier.
Confused Brandon Allen who started briefly and was then benched at Denver with Kyle Allen. Neither are franchise QB's.
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His back injury plus family factors might mean it is time to walk away. But, early days and nothing but rumors.
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You have made your position well known here, your attacks regarding a deeply personal time in my life and totally misstating it were pretty sickening and you continue to do it, but it is what it is with you.
God bless.
I'm truly sorry you lost someone close to you. That always sucks.
I wouldn't bother you for your antics if you didn't come on here telling everyone you found the true meaning and purpose to life and that MUScoop is incredibly unimportant and you sincerely apologize for all of your behavior prior to that life changing event for you and that you wouldn't be around here any more. Why? Because it took VERY little time for you to be right back here posting non-stop in the exact same manner that you were posting before you wrote that long winded letter. Literally nothing changed even though you claimed it was this eye opening, life changing event. You spend all your time on MUScoop antagonizing everyone and then playing the victim. It's incredibly old.
It's impossibly hard not to look at that letter and think, "Hmm, look at ChicosBailBonds. His beloved MUScoop banned him for the 876th time and here he is trying to sweep up all of the sympathy he can get in order to remain a member here so as not to be banned for the 877th time because of this horrible life even the went through and now he's a changed man."
Let's be honest. Nothing about your behavior on MUScoop has changed. Whether that's true in other aspects of your life only you and those involved in those aspects can know. But, just like after you once again got banned and once again returned and claimed you would only be around occasionally and not constantly, your words were empty. Not one thing has changed. You're the same ChicosBondsman you've always been on MUScoop.
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You spend all your time on MUScoop antagonizing everyone and then playing the victim.
Ayup.
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Ayup.
Several of Tsmith’s last few posts have all been racially charged and he’s talking about antagonizing? Wow.
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I'm truly sorry you lost someone close to you. That always sucks.
Because it took VERY little time for you to be right back here posting non-stop in the exact same manner that you were posting before you wrote that long winded letter.
It actually took quite a long time to come back, not "very little time". Secondly, no one is saying I'm a victim except for you guys. I"m just fine. I give what I get. There are 1000's of members here I have never said one word to, negative or positive. I give what I get. If you attack, yup I'll attack back. That's being a victim? Or is it just setting the record straight or giving my POV? I'll take the latter.
I'm very respectful to people deserving of respect and acting in a respectful manner. This isn't hard. Not surprising when I was away, some of the same posters having the measuring contests me were having them with other posters here....which is why I always laugh when I'm accused of being the sole participant.
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Tower, you happy Patricia is coming back?
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It is consistent with history of the Ford family with regard to the Lions. Not surprised. Remember, this is the family that held on to Matt Millen from 2001-2008. I do, however, think that when the hatchet falls, it will be on both Quinn and Patricia.
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Several of Tsmith’s last few posts have all been racially charged and he’s talking about antagonizing? Wow.
After making political comment after political comment, cry, cry, cry that you are the victim when called out. It never ends, despite being banned a dozen times and the mods telling you to knock it off time after time.
Go ahead, go find another thread to get shut down.
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It is consistent with history of the Ford family with regard to the Lions. Not surprised. Remember, this is the family that held on to Matt Millen from 2001-2008. I do, however, think that when the hatchet falls, it will be on both Quinn and Patricia.
Chuck Schmidt was let go to hire Millen. Chuck's son worked for me for many years, and now I work with him at HBO. Had the pleasure of talking to Chuck at his son's wedding last year. Really interesting guy and his views of the Lions some 20 years later. Sometimes the culture of losing is very hard to eradicate. It seemed that Chuck and Fontes, actually had done that to a degree, but folks wanted more. I can't remember, but I think the last time the Lions had three straight winning years was around that time period, and something like 4 out of 5 years.
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It is consistent with history of the Ford family with regard to the Lions. Not surprised. Remember, this is the family that held on to Matt Millen from 2001-2008. I do, however, think that when the hatchet falls, it will be on both Quinn and Patricia.
Also the family that fired the only coach who posted a career record (with the team) above .500 since the early 1970s.
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Chuck Schmidt was let go to hire Millen. Chuck's son worked for me for many years, and now I work with him at HBO. Had the pleasure of talking to Chuck at his son's wedding last year. Really interesting guy and his views of the Lions some 20 years later. Sometimes the culture of losing is very hard to eradicate. It seemed that Chuck and Fontes, actually had done that to a degree, but folks wanted more. I can't remember, but I think the last time the Lions had three straight winning years was around that time period, and something like 4 out of 5 years.
The problem with Fontes was he'd always start out slow then he'd do enough in the regular season to be brought back before getting embarrassed in the playoffs.
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One playoff win in my lifetime. Fontes was the king of 9-7 and sneaking in. Also known as the good old days.
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Tragic stabbing death of brother of 49ers QB
https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/28350144/niners-get-emotional-win-cj-beathard-family-tragedy
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Panthers will be better without games.................................
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Ezekiel Elliott took himself out of the game - tired I guess - with Cowboys losing 10-6. His sub promptly fumbled, and Eagles went down and scored.
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Boiz not better without Zeke....
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Matt Nagy Dumb
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7 more days of the Clapping Ginger
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Matt Nagy Dumb
Punting on 4th and 7 from the Chiefs 43 when you are down 10-0 halfway through the second quarter in a lost season? Jason Garret thinks you're too conservative there.
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Some of the excuse making by Collinsworth for Trubisky was hilarious. "You know he only started one year in college, so right about now is when he is catching up to Watson and Mahomes when they got out of school."
OK. Cool. Why draft him ahead of those guys then?
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The Bears were absolutely terrible this year. Their high point was a near meaningless game against another 7-8 team, the Dallas Cowboys.
Either Nagy realizes how bad his quarterback is or he’s not the offensive genius the Bears parade across their promo presentation on their scoreboard. It’s as if the team went through the motions in a game where they had to prove something for next year.
The scarey thing is that the Bears have shot the wad on Khalil Mack while having an offense so bad that they’ll never be good enough to fully utilize Mr. Mack’s incredible talents.
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Either Nagy realizes how bad his quarterback is or he’s not the offensive genius the Bears parade across their promo presentation on their scoreboard. It’s as if the team went through the motions in a game where they had to prove something for next year.
It's both. I don't think Trubisky is very good. But I also think he's been trained too much to not make mistakes. He rarely pushes the offense, constantly checking down. The playcalling, with all the screens and such, doesn't ever force a defense to respect anything downfield. Bears would be wise to move on both quarterback and coaching wise. My guess is they do neither.
Look what the Titans are doing with Tannehill. You can find an experienced guy to come in and move the ball enough with this defense. Go get Teddy Bridgewater. Sh*t, I'd even look at Blake Bortels.
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It's both. I don't think Trubisky is very good. But I also think he's been trained too much to not make mistakes. He rarely pushes the offense, constantly checking down. The playcalling, with all the screens and such, doesn't ever force a defense to respect anything downfield. Bears would be wise to move on both quarterback and coaching wise. My guess is they do neither.
Look what the Titans are doing with Tannehill. You can find an experienced guy to come in and move the ball enough with this defense. Go get Teddy Bridgewater. Sh*t, I'd even look at Blake Bortels.
There have been rumors that if Cam is healthy, the Bears will try to get him. I don't know if those rumors are even 1% credible, but they make sense ... for the Bears. If Cam is healthy, given what we've seen of the other QBs on the Panthers' roster, the Panthers need to keep him unless they are planning a complete rebuild that includes drafting a QB No. 1 next spring.
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The Bears were absolutely terrible this year. Their high point was a near meaningless game against another 7-8 team, the Dallas Cowboys.
Either Nagy realizes how bad his quarterback is or he’s not the offensive genius the Bears parade across their promo presentation on their scoreboard. It’s as if the team went through the motions in a game where they had to prove something for next year.
The scarey thing is that the Bears have shot the wad on Khalil Mack while having an offense so bad that they’ll never be good enough to fully utilize Mr. Mack’s incredible talents.
Nagy has absolutely no faith in Trubisky. Thats part of the issue. His idiotic playcalling and inability to put together a complete offensive gameplan is another. If they make no changes and bring back both next year (which I honestly think they do), it will be like John Fox's last year where I watched maybe 2-3 games all year cause I had no interest in watching a pathetic team with no direction. The 4 playcalls when they turned it over inside the 10 made my head hurt. Run, bad pass play, QB run, horribly thrown fade. Second worse throw of the night after 4th and 23 where Mitch threw a dumpoff to a tight end. For f**** sake
Speaking of pathetic, John Dorsey is a really good GM and a sharp football mind, but if he doesn't doesn't admit his error and dump Freddie Kitchens in a week, his reputation needs to take a hit. Holy crap. That team continues to be undisciplined and brain dead, and also showing no life. But to make it worse, he's making even dumber decisions. Up 6-0 yesterday, playing awesome on defense and making Lamar and Co look human, they wet themselves and give up a 2 play 63 yard TD drive on 2 long passes with horrible blown coverages. Ok. They get the ball back down 7-6, 1:11 left...proceed to throw 2 deep incompletions and instead of running on 3rd and long to mitigate risk as the Ravens had no TOs left...they throw another incomplete pass. Punt to Baltimore with a minute remaining...and let the MVP do what he does and score again before halftime...and the Ravens got the ball to start the second half. Game over. Just a complete inability to do any game management.
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Panthers will be better without games.................................
If I were a Panthers fan, I'd be wondering why Christian McCaffery is getting 25+ touches in a meaningless blowout loss at the end of the season.
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Say it with me Bears fans, Alex Smith.
But actually I’d rather them just go in on Teddy or Cam or draft a QB and hope it turns out.
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If I were a Panthers fan, I'd be wondering why Christian McCaffery is getting 25+ touches in a meaningless blowout loss at the end of the season.
I am.
He is fairly close to being only the third RB ever to get 1000 rushing and receiving yards, and I think that matters to the franchise (and quite possibly to McCaffrey, though he doesn't talk about individual stats). But I'm not a big fan of chasing milestones like that in a meaningless game at the expense of keeping a franchise player healthy.
McCaffrey rarely takes a play off. I am not saying that in the coach-speak way; it's a fact. For the second straight season, he will have played more snaps than any other RB, and it hasn't been close.
I'd be much happier Sunday if, rather than playing him, the Panthers announce that they're paying him ... by giving him a nice contract extension befitting one of the best players in the NFL.
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I am.
He is fairly close to being only the third RB ever to get 1000 rushing and receiving yards, and I think that matters to the franchise (and quite possibly to McCaffrey, though he doesn't talk about individual stats). But I'm not a big fan of chasing milestones like that in a meaningless game at the expense of keeping a franchise player healthy.
McCaffrey rarely takes a play off. I am not saying that in the coach-speak way; it's a fact. For the second straight season, he will have played more snaps than any other RB, and it hasn't been close.
I'd be much happier Sunday if, rather than playing him, the Panthers announce that they're paying him ... by giving him a nice contract extension befitting one of the best players in the NFL.
There have been a lot of dives into this, but the consensus is that RBs with a 400+ touch season typically (though not always) see a big drop in production and increase in injuries the following year.
McCaffery is at 387 touches right now.
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There have been a lot of dives into this, but the consensus is that RBs with a 400+ touch season typically (though not always) see a big drop in production and increase in injuries the following year.
McCaffery is at 387 touches right now.
He's shown a willingness to sit out games that crotchety old men think he should play.
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Congrats to new Panthers coach Mike McCarthy
Bump
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https://twitter.com/DanDeYoungFB/status/1209159988456886274?s=19
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Since we're a week away ... Black Monday firing predictions:
Freddie Kitchens
Pat Shurmur
Jason Garrett*
Doug Marrone
Anthony Lynn
I may be wrong here, but I think the Falcons late-season push may have saved Dan Quinn's job, which is dumb.
Ryan Pace can't fire another coach, so unless he goes, Nagy stays.
* Might survive if Cowboys make the playoffs
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Skol Vikings
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https://twitter.com/DanDeYoungFB/status/1209159988456886274?s=19
That's one of the most amazing things I've seen this season. Literally, every receiver is wide open except the one Trubisky chooses to throw to. Not sure you can teach him to get better at that. He's already through 3 freakin' seasons.
There have been a lot of dives into this, but the consensus is that RBs with a 400+ touch season typically (though not always) see a big drop in production and increase in injuries the following year.
I'm gonna focus on the (though not always) part of what you said here, and cross my fingers.
Plus, I'll also say that McCaffrey is an amazing receiver. I've never seen a back with better hands. He has made some amazing catches. I'm thinking that if he ever gets to the point where he can no longer carry an offense as a RB, he could be a hell of a possession receiver -- and those guys can play until they are 35+.
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Since we're a week away ... Black Monday firing predictions:
Freddie Kitchens
Pat Shurmur
Jason Garrett*
Doug Marrone
Anthony Lynn
I may be wrong here, but I think the Falcons late-season push may have saved Dan Quinn's job, which is dumb.
Ryan Pace can't fire another coach, so unless he goes, Nagy stays.
* Might survive if Cowboys make the playoffs
I cannot imagine Garrett surviving without a Super Bowl appearance. I’d be surprised if Lynn is fired, only one year removed from 12-4 and a playoff win. That franchise is such a dumpster fire right now they have bigger issues.
Agree on the others.
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I would not be unhappy if they cut Graham now.
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How many mistakes can a team make in one half?
We’re just lucky we’re playing the Queens.
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I thought I would try to find a Packers fan chat since I enjoy the MU version so much during a game. They must all be Badger fans because I’d prefer to watch by myself than “chat” on that board. Putzes. If that is a word
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How many mistakes can a team make in one half?
We’re just lucky we’re playing the Queens.
No need for the patriarchal nonsense.....go Redskins. ;)
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Finally. Kevin King.
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You try to draw a team of sides on 4th down, but burn a timeout with 20 secs on play clock? WTf? That is Cowboysesque.
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Vikings deserve to lose this game. That third down end around to Theilen followed by that terrible timeout on fourth down to then punt. Awful.
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Skol Vikings
The team is about as good as the vodka.
Who the hell have the Viqueens been playing that Kirk Cousins has been lighting up? When it comes to Kirk Cousins’s QB play, I LIKE THAT!
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Zzzzzzx
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Za’Darius isn’t a Pro Bowler. 😂
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7 first downs in a home NFL game?
Lotsa credit to the Pack, but an offense has to have a special kind of ineptitude to manage only 7 first downs in a home game.
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7 first downs in a home NFL game?
Lotsa credit to the Pack, but an offense has to have a special kind of ineptitude to manage only 7 first downs in a home game.
I kept waiting for “Clutch” Cousins to show up.
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By the way, Mike, what's your opinion on McCarthy becoming coach?
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Za’Darius isn’t a Pro Bowler. 😂
Way bigger snubs
https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/28321825/2020-pro-bowl-snubs-surprises-nfl-experts-audit-afc-nfc-rosters
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Way bigger snubs
https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/28321825/2020-pro-bowl-snubs-surprises-nfl-experts-audit-afc-nfc-rosters
Yeah I'll go ahead and take Za'Darius over every one of those 5. Especially over 7-8 in the NFC East with a dominant O line and one of the best backs in the league Dak Prescott.
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Yeah I'll go ahead and take Za'Darius over every one of those 5. Especially over 7-8 in the NFC East with a dominant O line and one of the best backs in the league Dak Prescott.
Barrett, Jones and Mack...who does Smith replace? Meanwhile, football is a ream game...QBs (or any other position) don’t play defense or Special teams...wins and losses come as a team.
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Barrett, Jones and Mack...who does Smith replace? Meanwhile, football is a ream game...QBs (or any other position) don’t play defense or Special teams...wins and losses come as a team.
Just looked at Khalil Mack vs. Za’Darius Smith. Stopped there because that’s already one player he’d easily replace. One guy has 8.5 sacks, 43 tackles, 8 tackles for loss. The other has 13.5 sacks, 47.5 tackles, 17 tackles for loss. I’ll let you decide which is which.
Why are records part of a QB’s stats then? Don’t ever see a running back’s record as a starter mentioned or a safety’s record as a starter. Constantly see a QB’s record.
Kirk Cousins not 0-9 in MNF games?
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Just looked at Khalil Mack vs. Za’Darius Smith. Stopped there because that’s already one player he’d easily replace. One guy has 8.5 sacks, 43 tackles, 8 tackles for loss. The other has 13.5 sacks, 47.5 tackles, 17 tackles for loss. I’ll let you decide which is which.
Why are records part of a QB’s stats then? Don’t ever see a running back’s record as a starter mentioned or a safety’s record as a starter. Constantly see a QB’s record.
Kirk Cousins not 0-9 in MNF games?
Records can be made about any player if you wish, and as they properly said last night....it is foolish to do so because it is a team game. Maybe you had turned off the game by then. Think about it, a QB could throw for 4 TDS, zero ints, but his defense gives up 40 points and they lose....that’s why it is dumb.
Mack is double teamed damn near every play. I’m not saying Smith doesn’t deserve it, but so do the other three.
There was near universal slamming on the others snubs...some real eye openers.
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By the way, Mike, what's your opinion on McCarthy becoming coach?
I'm open-minded. I know that a lot of GB fans got tired of him (or never liked him), but he did win a lot there. I know that some say that Rodgers was the only reason he won in GB, and that he should have won even more because of Rodgers.
I guess that's all my way of saying that I don't know enough about what McCarthy's plans would be, what he would do the same or differently in Charlotte, etc.
That he was fired, in and of itself, does not bother me. Lots of outstanding coaches/managers in all sports have been fired, including Belichick, Budenholzer, Torre, Francona, Rivers, Quenneville, etc, etc, etc. You learn, you grow, you improve (hopefully). Maybe the same would be true of McCarthy; maybe not.
There are so many question marks with the Panthers right now that it's hard to predict the success of any coach. I mean, we have 3 QBs: one hurt "franchise" player who might never again play at a level close to what he once was; one mediocre (to be kind) guy who is at best a career backup; one rookie who might be decent or might suck. And the defense obviously needs major, major work.
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Vikings deserve to lose this game. That third down end around to Theilen followed by that terrible timeout on fourth down to then punt. Awful.
And the poorly executed trick play on 3rd down.
Play calling like that is basically conceding to the defense that we can't beat you.
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I'm open-minded. I know that a lot of GB fans got tired of him (or never liked him), but he did win a lot there. I know that some say that Rodgers was the only reason he won in GB, and that he should have won even more because of Rodgers.
I guess that's all my way of saying that I don't know enough about what McCarthy's plans would be, what he would do the same or differently in Charlotte, etc.
That he was fired, in and of itself, does not bother me. Lots of outstanding coaches/managers in all sports have been fired, including Belichick, Budenholzer, Torre, Francona, Rivers, Quenneville, etc, etc, etc. You learn, you grow, you improve (hopefully). Maybe the same would be true of McCarthy; maybe not.
There are so many question marks with the Panthers right now that it's hard to predict the success of any coach. I mean, we have 3 QBs: one hurt "franchise" player who might never again play at a level close to what he once was; one mediocre (to be kind) guy who is at best a career backup; one rookie who might be decent or might suck. And the defense obviously needs major, major work.
Mac got too comfortable and lazy in my opinion. He was pig headed on certain things like not utilizing aaron Jones or changing up the offense. I think players started tuning him out including Rodgers. He lost the locker room to some degree. It was time for a change.
Having said that I believe he is an excellent coach. Great communicator to his players and will always have their backs. Excellent teacher and qb coach. He will have to be willing to change his offensive philosophies to some degree because it had gotten stale and predictable. He will have to be willing to run the ball which he never fully committed to. I think he has studied the league in his time off and will make adjustments. An innovative offensive coordinator would help. All in all he would be a very good choice.
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Why are records part of a QB’s stats then? Don’t ever see a running back’s record as a starter mentioned or a safety’s record as a starter. Constantly see a QB’s record.
Kirk Cousins not 0-9 in MNF games?
Last night, Cousins was awful....but let's look at that 0-9 record.
ProFootballReference.com first 8 games, completed more than two-thirds of his passes (204-of-305) for 2,226 yards to go with 10 touchdowns and five interceptions. Cousins posted a quarterback rating of better than 100 in four of the eight games. Again, this is why that stat is so dumb.
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Last night, Cousins was awful....but let's look at that 0-9 record.
ProFootballReference.com first 8 games, completed more than two-thirds of his passes (204-of-305) for 2,226 yards to go with 10 touchdowns and five interceptions. Cousins posted a quarterback rating of better than 100 in four of the eight games. Again, this is why that stat is so dumb.
Except qb is by far the most important and influential player on the team. Wins and losses matter when you are qb and especially when you make the investment the Vikings made in him.
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Just looked at Khalil Mack vs. Za’Darius Smith. Stopped there because that’s already one player he’d easily replace. One guy has 8.5 sacks, 43 tackles, 8 tackles for loss. The other has 13.5 sacks, 47.5 tackles, 17 tackles for loss. I’ll let you decide which is which.
Why are records part of a QB’s stats then? Don’t ever see a running back’s record as a starter mentioned or a safety’s record as a starter. Constantly see a QB’s record.
Kirk Cousins not 0-9 in MNF games?
Za'Darius was also among the league-leaders in double-team rate for edge defenders as of mid-December. He won't win DPOY (nor should he - that's TJ Watt or Stephon Gilmore by a considerable margin, IMO), but he's having a hell of a campaign. More or less extrapolating what he did as a situational pass-rusher in Baltimore over the entire season.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ELnLgo-WsAA8Ob0.jpg:large)
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Except qb is by far the most important and influential player on the team. Wins and losses matter when you are qb and especially when you make the investment the Vikings made in him.
No one is arguing it isn't the most important offensive player on the team....I'm sure you will agree that you can have a QB put up monster numbers and lose games. It's a team game ultimately. If you have no running game, all on the QB. If you have a great running game, then the QB has to do less...look at the marginal QB's that have Super Bowl titles because they had insane defenses or great running games.
John Elway for years willed his team to the Super Bowl only to be blown out. Jim Kelly. Etc. It's a team game, the ultimate team game in sports. Much like baseball, you can have great players but if your pitching staff sucks...you go nowhere...or if you have great pitchers and cannot score runs, you aren't winning.
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No one is arguing it isn't the most important offensive player on the team....I'm sure you will agree that you can have a QB put up monster numbers and lose games. It's a team game ultimately. If you have no running game, all on the QB. If you have a great running game, then the QB has to do less...look at the marginal QB's that have Super Bowl titles because they had insane defenses or great running games.
John Elway for years willed his team to the Super Bowl only to be blown out. Jim Kelly. Etc. It's a team game, the ultimate team game in sports. Much like baseball, you can have great players but if your pitching staff sucks...you go nowhere...or if you have great pitchers and cannot score runs, you aren't winning.
Of course but when you are a franchise qb you are judged on wins and losses. There is more to it than putting up numbers. You said it Elway willed his team to the super bowl.
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Of course but when you are a franchise qb you are judged on wins and losses. There is more to it than putting up numbers. You said it Elway willed his team to the super bowl.
And lost, time after time...and pilloried for it....unfairly. Let's look at AR, should he only have one SB appearance in his career? Is that his fault?
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Mac got too comfortable and lazy in my opinion. He was pig headed on certain things like not utilizing aaron Jones or changing up the offense. I think players started tuning him out including Rodgers. He lost the locker room to some degree. It was time for a change.
Having said that I believe he is an excellent coach. Great communicator to his players and will always have their backs. Excellent teacher and qb coach. He will have to be willing to change his offensive philosophies to some degree because it had gotten stale and predictable. He will have to be willing to run the ball which he never fully committed to. I think he has studied the league in his time off and will make adjustments. An innovative offensive coordinator would help. All in all he would be a very good choice.
Spot on. I was overjoyed to see him fired in GB. But, I think he would be a great hire in Carolina.
There is a shelf life for a head coach that McCarthy reached just as Rivers did. But, overall, an excellent coach.
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hairy and Jockey ... thanks for your takes on McCarthy. It certainly would appear my team could do a lot worse. I'm sure they'll be interviewing several others. Will be interesting to see which names pop up.
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Dan Marino was the king of monster stats without Super Bowl results.
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Dan Marino was the king of monster stats without Super Bowl results.
Don't remind me. I was a huge Dolphins (and Marino) fan way back when.
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Dan Marino was the king of monster stats without Super Bowl results.
How can your forget the Super Bowl he won after being kidnapped, along with the mascot, by the Dolphins’ former kicker?
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Quinn is going to be retained as coach of the Falcons. That's a mistake. That team has been deteriorating for the past three seasons. And what leads people to believe that it will be better? Don't get teams that hang onto coaches like this.
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Quinn is going to be retained as coach of the Falcons. That's a mistake. That team has been deteriorating for the past three seasons. And what leads people to believe that it will be better? Don't get teams that hang onto coaches like this.
Browns / Ravens wish they had stuck with Bill Bellichick as head coach. Coach K. Wojo 8-)
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Quinn is going to be retained as coach of the Falcons. That's a mistake. That team has been deteriorating for the past three seasons. And what leads people to believe that it will be better? Don't get teams that hang onto coaches like this.
Who out there is better that Atlanta could hire That’s probably the driving factor.
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Who out there is better that Atlanta could hire That’s probably the driving factor.
I doubt they even thought about that.
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Who out there is better that Atlanta could hire That’s probably the driving factor.
Arthur Blank has the resources to hire just about anyone he wants. And finding someone better than Quinn shouldn't be hard. Quinn has a career record of 42-37, but his career record without Kyle Shanahan as his OC is 23-24 ... which is bad considering the talent he's had down there. He makes Jason Garrett look like an overachiever.
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Antonio Brown to the Saints perhaps? Since I don't want to be a tyrant and believe people should have 11 chances...I say go for it New Orleans.
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https://twitter.com/adoughh/status/1210044075723894784?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1210044075723894784&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fdailysnark.com%2Fminnesota-newspaper-lists-injuring-aaron-rodgers-as-one-of-their-top-sports-moments-of-decade%2F&fbclid=IwAR25tYRu210dMEjgRxnJxMIPLuRvDOe2kWrcaaQxd1LZs8lyjh3EUm8oCqQ
SKOL!
Minnesota sports really killed it this decade.
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Tweet is inaccurate. They didn't list injuring Aaron Rodgers as one of their top sports moments of the decade. They just showed the picture.
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https://twitter.com/adoughh/status/1210044075723894784?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1210044075723894784&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fdailysnark.com%2Fminnesota-newspaper-lists-injuring-aaron-rodgers-as-one-of-their-top-sports-moments-of-decade%2F&fbclid=IwAR25tYRu210dMEjgRxnJxMIPLuRvDOe2kWrcaaQxd1LZs8lyjh3EUm8oCqQ
SKOL!
Minnesota sports really killed it this decade.
Fake news
I wonder if Twitter were around when Charles Martin was ending Jim McMahon’s season if any fans from one team might say some really dumb things
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Tweet is inaccurate. They didn't list injuring Aaron Rodgers as one of their top sports moments of the decade. They just showed the picture.
Might not list it as their top 5 moments like the Tweet says. But when you show images of 5 things on the front page of your "Decade in Review" sports section and they are "Lynx Titles (lists the 4 years)," "Hiring PJ Fleck," "Minnesota Miracle," "Twins hit homers," and "Barr injures Rodgers" it sure seems to be highlighting it as one of the top sports moments of the decade.
Fake news
I wonder if Twitter were around when Charles Martin was ending Jim McMahon’s season if any fans from one team might say some really dumb things
This was the front page of the Star Tribune's newspaper. Not Twitter.
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Who out there is better that Atlanta could hire That’s probably the driving factor.
Really? If that's the case then Atlanta deserves to lose. With that thinking they should have never let go of Glanville.
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Fake news
I wonder if Twitter were around when Charles Martin was ending Jim McMahon’s season if any fans from one team might say some really dumb things
Fans of course. Newspapers probably not.
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I have major concerns on Chase Young. If I were Washington (assuming they stay at #2 after tomorrow), I’m trying to trade that pick.
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Might not list it as their top 5 moments like the Tweet says.
That was my only point.
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I’ll repeat what I said last week - why is Jimmy Graham on this roster?
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Charles Martin impression...dumb
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I have no idea how the packers are 12-3.
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The Lions' MO is to blow leads.
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Look I know the Packers aren’t very good when compared to their record. But this is a complete horse sh*t performance with so much on the line.
No show after a big win in KC. No show after a bye. No show after a big win in Minnesota. I don’t know what it means.
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Watching and flipping through all the games today, a lot of lifeless performances. Pats are no showing, KC is sleep walking.
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Atrocious first half by Green Bay, totally embarrassing.
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If Matt LaFleur doesn’t have a hand in a cast coming out of the locker room, I will question his ability to coach this team.
Kidding...I think
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No cast. I’m pissed
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I have no idea how the packers are 12-3.
Have you seen who they have played this year? After today, their schedule is supposed to finish 26th. They got boat raced by the Chargers, 49ers...played KC without Mahomes, struggled to beat Carolina and the Redskins at Lambeau, quite frankly were gifted a win against the Lions at Lambeau.
The Packers aren't bad, they just aren't great despite the gaudy record suggesting they might be...I think most Packer fans would agree with that statement. Receiving corps is pedestrian for the most part, Rodgers hasn't been "Rodgers" for a few years, defense is pretty good. Playing in Lambeau in January will certainly be a huge benefit for the team, of course.
End of the day, this is the Lions, so GBP could still win this game.
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Rodgers is absolute trash today.
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This is not going well.
The “eff it, let’s go deep,” offense is worse than usual.
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I was just thinking Rodgers is having as bad a game as Crosby had in Detroit last year...then Crosby misses the FG.
I don’t remember many games that Rodgers has played so poorly. Well, at least he has a $28 million oceanfront mansion to watch game film over the summer
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Rodgers is absolute trash today.
Worst I have ever seen him. Missed at least 3 TDs already as well as numerous other big gainers.
He has never had a game like this.
There is no way possible this team can win in NO.
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I think Larry McCarren is approaching a record number of “eww”’s during plays on TMJ’s radio broadcast.
Starting to remind me of Harry Caray
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Worst I have ever seen him. Missed at least 3 TDs already as well as numerous other big gainers.
He has never had a game like this.
There is no way possible this team can win in NO.
He was really bad against the Chargers out here.
Nor can they win at Seattle or San Francisco either.
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Look I know the Packers aren’t very good when compared to their record. But this is a complete horse sh*t performance with so much on the line.
No show after a big win in KC. No show after a bye. No show after a big win in Minnesota. I don’t know what it means.
Stoopid McCarthy!
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Not to put too fine a point on it, but the Lions have lots of players on IR, a third string QB, Slay and Galloday injured in this game, and a culture of losing. GB will win. Only question is how.
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Well, that was an awful drive. Need a turnover here.
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Rodgers is stunningly bad today. Whether the game was meaningful or not. I didn’t think he could throw this poorly in a practice on a Wednesday in training camp much less when playing for home field advantage
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Lions be Lioning
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Flores should be coach of the year. That guy has done an absolute hell of a job, wow.
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Well, that was an awful drive. Need a turnover here.
Alright, let’s get another turnover.
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Alright, let’s get another turnover.
Eh, it was worth a shot
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Brutal.
Rodgers misses another - a game winner. Overthrows deep all day, then underthrows Kumerow.
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That was gross. I need a shower. But it counts the same as a 35 pt win...I guess
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Never a doubt.
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Not to put too fine a point on it, but the Lions have lots of players on IR, a third string QB, Slay and Galloday injured in this game, and a culture of losing. GB will win. Only question is how.
You got my sympathy, Tower.
Even as a Packer fan in the 70s and 80s, we didn’t have to deal with what Lions fans have to put up with.
Thank God we played the Bears, Vikings, and Lions to end the regular season. 3 lose-proof games.
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Never a doubt.
Lions be Lioning...even with a 3rd string QB and GB playing for a ton....never a doubt.
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Basically a microcosm of the Packers season. Not very good, yet look up and somehow the result is what you were looking for.
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I hope Rodgers figures something out over the next 2 weeks. They won’t win a playoff game playing like that
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Rodgers needs to watch Brady. Dink and dump isn’t sexy, but he Rodgers looks so good when throwing 6-8 yards moving the ball.
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Basically a microcosm of the Packers season. Not very good, yet look up and somehow the result is what you were looking for.
A really soft schedule can be a great aid in achieving those results. One of the reasons why New England has been exposed....32nd schedule out of 32. Cowboys as well...31st out of 32nd and have beaten nobody.
I suspect GBP whether they are seeded 1st or 2nd will not be given the love by the rating systems to win. Vegas will be interesting considering how much money is bet on GBP by fans.
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Was torn. Lose and potentially get the #2 pick. Win means beating GB and knocking them to a road game Instead, watch the Pack gifted another undeserved win against the Lions. I’m positive that if Washington wins today Chase Young will return to OSU.
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Things this team has in common with the 1996 Packers: 13-3 regular season record
And that's about it...
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Bears sweep the Vikes
#skoal
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Rodgers needs to watch Brady. Dink and dump isn’t sexy, but he Rodgers looks so good when throwing 6-8 yards moving the ball.
Brady is having his worst season in years and years. Looks like a shell of how he played when he was a kid of 40.
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Brady is having his worst season in years and years. Looks like a shell of how he played when he was a kid of 40.
This could be it for Brady and maybe the beginning of the end for the Patriots dynasty.
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Brady is having his worst season in years and years. Looks like a shell of how he played when he was a kid of 40.
True, but Brady has had a lot of success for a long time on short passes.
The Packers may have had an easy schedule, but they still had to win the games. They got lucky with the NFC East and a 3rd place finish last year, for a weaker schedule. However, the NFC North was a tough division and they went 6-0.
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Rodgers needs to watch Brady. Dink and dump isn’t sexy, but he Rodgers looks so good when throwing 6-8 yards moving the ball.
He can, while he is on a bye and TB12 is playing.
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True, but Brady has had a lot of success for a long time on short passes.
The Packers may have had an easy schedule, but they still had to win the games. They got lucky with the NFC East and a 3rd place finish last year, for a weaker schedule. However, the NFC North was a tough division and they went 6-0.
The weak schedule arguement for the entire season is weak. They were still playing nfl teams and went 13-3. You could argue they didn't win convincingly enough I guess. It's unreal that a win isn't good enough they have to win a certain way as well.
They were 6 and 0 in division with road wins against kc, min, bears and cowboys. The no Mahomes argument is weak as well. Vikings couldnt beat them without Mahomes. KC has a good backup who played well. No apologies for winning.
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Rodgers needs to watch Brady. Dink and dump isn’t sexy, but he Rodgers looks so good when throwing 6-8 yards moving the ball.
Rodgers is having a better year than Brady. Higher completion percentage, net yards per attempt, rating, QBR, interception percentage...
So why should Rodgers watch Brady?
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Gotta be a future trivia question here somewhere:
Packers played Detroit twice this year, never led even one second of the 120 minutes and yet won both games without going into overtime.
Gotta bet that has never happened before.
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The weak schedule arguement for the entire season is weak. They were still playing nfl teams and went 13-3. You could argue they didn't win convincingly enough I guess. It's unreal that a win isn't good enough they have to win a certain way as well.
They were 6 and 0 in division with road wins against kc, min, bears and cowboys. The no Mahomes argument is weak as well. Vikings couldnt beat them without Mahomes. KC has a good backup who played well. No apologies for winning.
You are right that going 13-3 is a great accomplishment for this team. But not playing Mahomes was a huge advantage. Not sure how you could discount that.
And their schedule was weak. Playing the NFC East and the AFC West was a huge advantage.
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The weak schedule arguement for the entire season is weak. They were still playing nfl teams and went 13-3. You could argue they didn't win convincingly enough I guess. It's unreal that a win isn't good enough they have to win a certain way as well.
They were 6 and 0 in division with road wins against kc, min, bears and cowboys. The no Mahomes argument is weak as well. Vikings couldnt beat them without Mahomes. KC has a good backup who played well. No apologies for winning.
The weak schedule argument is also misleading at this point because teams with good records "weaken" their SOS as a result of winning. That's especially true when you go 6-0 against your division. So, I guess the Pack could have split with the Bears, Vikings and Lions and talked about how their schedule was tough, but I'm guessing they'd rather be 13-3.
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Rodgers is having a better year than Brady. Higher completion percentage, net yards per attempt, rating, QBR, interception percentage...
So why should Rodgers watch Brady?
That’s fair. I meant more from Brady’s career rather than this year specifically. Other than with Moss, Brady hasn’t been a guy that makes a living throwing deep. He takes the underneath stuff and moves the chains.
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Gotta be a future trivia question here somewhere:
Packers played Detroit twice this year, never led even one second of the 120 minutes and yet won both games without going into overtime.
Gotta bet that has never happened before.
It is crazy - I read it's the 2nd time ever it has happened: https://www.espn.com/espn/now?nowId=21-41089462-4
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The weak schedule argument is also misleading at this point because teams with good records "weaken" their SOS as a result of winning. That's especially true when you go 6-0 against your division. So, I guess the Pack could have split with the Bears, Vikings and Lions and talked about how their schedule was tough, but I'm guessing they'd rather be 13-3.
Packers took advantage of getting the NFC East and AFC West on the schedule and missing Mahomes. They also got the 3rd place schedule which meant a terrible Carolina team, but a very good SF team, so that was a wash.
All that said, going 6-0 in the division, any division is incredibly impressive.
They have been extraordinarily lucky with lack of depth-killing injuries and in the turnover game. They’ve also played remarkable red zone defense despite giving up lots of yards. Those things aren’t typically sustainable from one year to the next. Doesn’t matter in 2019, though. Ride the wave as long as you can and you might win a Super Bowl
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You are right that going 13-3 is a great accomplishment for this team. But not playing Mahomes was a huge advantage. Not sure how you could discount that.
And their schedule was weak. Playing the NFC East and the AFC West was a huge advantage.
Well the Vikings coildnt beat kc without Mahomes and kc still had all their weapons. Kc backup qb played pretty well. All the divisions have weak teams. NFC south not that great either. Arguably the best division is nfc north where the packers had 6 games. Also had to play the best team in the nfc west.
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The weak schedule argument is also misleading at this point because teams with good records "weaken" their SOS as a result of winning. That's especially true when you go 6-0 against your division. So, I guess the Pack could have split with the Bears, Vikings and Lions and talked about how their schedule was tough, but I'm guessing they'd rather be 13-3.
Exactly. I get sos over a few games, but not entire season in nfl. I'm guessing the Patriots not apologizing for playing in most putrid division year after year almost guaranteeing them a AFC championship game.
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I don't think a 10-6 Vikings team loing to a Mahomes-less Chiefs says much of anything.
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NFL should really have all four of its networks televising games this final Sunday afternoon.
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NFL should really have all four of its networks televising games this final Sunday afternoon.
They might in the future with future deals, but the other networks didn't buy the rights for them...thus NFL Sunday Ticket has them in conjunction with CBS and FOX
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I understand that. I just think the way NFL televises its Sunday games is a relic of a different era. The fact I can't see the Eagles / Giants game on anything but a package purchased on Direct TV is very odd to when when I can watch pretty much any FBS college game on any given Sunday.
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Exactly. I get sos over a few games, but not entire season in nfl. I'm guessing the Patriots not apologizing for playing in most putrid division year after year almost guaranteeing them a AFC championship game.
Not exactly, plenty of examples to prove that out incorrectly.
Seattle Seahawks 2nd toughest and they are 11-4
The KC Chiefs have the 10th hardest schedule going into today and finish 12-4.
Houston Texas at 8th toughest
Rams with the toughest, likely to finish 9-7
Conversely, the team with the worst record should benefit from SOS because of all those losses...but the 2-14 Bengals right now have the 7th toughest schedule and it should drop to 9th by end of today....one would expect they would be in the top 5 if Pakuni's argument held true. Dolphins and Redksins both have schedules 25th or worse despite all of their losses which should improve their SOS by fattening up the other teams.
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I don't think a 10-6 Vikings team loing to a Mahomes-less Chiefs says much of anything.
Really? First of all today's game was meaningless to the vikings. They are still a playoff team in a tough nfc and at the time a top 3 or 4 team in the conference.
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They might in the future with future deals, but the other networks didn't buy the rights for them...thus NFL Sunday Ticket has them in conjunction with CBS and FOX
I know it will never happen, but an EPL like last day of NFL of the Sunday season would be so much fun. 16 games at like 4pm EST, across ESPN, CBS, ABC, FOX, NFL...make it a huge event the Sunday after XMas
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The no Mahomes argument is weak as well.
That might be the dumbest part in that dumb argument.
Missing one of the top 3 quarterbacks in the NFL is no big deal. ::)
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I can even watch every game of the final season of the English Premier League in May on some station, but the closest game relevant to the NFL playoff picture? Nope.
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I understand that. I just think the way NFL televises its Sunday games is a relic of a different era. The fact I can't see the Eagles / Giants game on anything but a package purchased on Direct TV is very odd to when when I can watch pretty much any FBS college game on any given Sunday.
That may be the case and the NFL had a chance to change it 6 months ago...they declined. They wanted the guaranteed money because Amazon, ESPN+ and others wouldn't pay what they were looking for. So, for now, the relic will continue for a number of years unless someone else steps up and pays...right now those other guys have said no. The NFL likes their money.
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I know it will never happen, but an EPL like last day of NFL of the Sunday season would be so much fun. 16 games at like 4pm EST, across ESPN, CBS, ABC, FOX, NFL...make it a huge event the Sunday after XMas
Exactly.
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Not exactly, plenty of examples to prove that out incorrectly.
Seattle Seahawks 2nd toughest and they are 11-4
The KC Chiefs have the 10th hardest schedule going into today and finish 12-4.
Houston Texas at 8th toughest
Rams with the toughest, likely to finish 9-7
Conversely, the team with the worst record should benefit from SOS because of all those losses...but the 2-14 Bengals right now have the 7th toughest schedule and it should drop to 9th by end of today....one would expect they would be in the top 5 if Pakuni's argument held true. Dolphins and Redksins both have schedules 25th or worse despite all of their losses which should improve their SOS by fattening up the other teams.
All nonsense this isn't ncaa basketball you get no extra consideration for playing a supposed tougher schedule. Any team can lose to any team and they do especially on the the road.
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That may be the case and the NFL had a chance to change it 6 months ago...they declined. They wanted the guaranteed money because Amazon, ESPN+ and others wouldn't pay what they were looking for. So, for now, the relic will continue for a number of years unless someone else steps up and pays...right now those other guys have said no. The NFL likes their money.
I get all that. In the meantime, I have a game droning on in the background that I'm not paying attention to. Very exciting.
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I'm guessing the Patriots not apologizing for playing in most putrid division year after year almost guaranteeing them a AFC championship game.
This is another "dumb argument"
See here: https://patriotsdynasty.info/blog/2019/01-02/myth-easy-afc-east-definitive-guide
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I know it will never happen, but an EPL like last day of NFL of the Sunday season would be so much fun. 16 games at like 4pm EST, across ESPN, CBS, ABC, FOX, NFL...make it a huge event the Sunday after XMas
Sunday Ticket could do it today, that's an NFL call ultimately on the time of day...but Sunday Ticket has the ability to put all those games on at one time across the board.
I would never say never, but this comes down to $$$ and advertising....and who pays for what. The broadcast affiliates for FOX and CBS pay a big part of the rate for NFL, the only way all that works is if they are made whole. The next TV contracts are up in 2021 and 2022, though discussions going on already. The CBA is a big part of all of this. Never say never.
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Really? First of all today's game was meaningless to the vikings. They are still a playoff team in a tough nfc and at the time a top 3 or 4 team in the conference.
Look, if you don't think the Packers got a huge break playing the Chiefs in Kansas City without the reigning MVP in their lineup, that is your opinion. But it is a very dumb one.
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Well the Vikings coildnt beat kc without Mahomes and kc still had all their weapons. Kc backup qb played pretty well. All the divisions have weak teams. NFC south not that great either. Arguably the best division is nfc north where the packers had 6 games. Also had to play the best team in the nfc west.
NFC West is the best division and has been rated so for almost the entire season. The 49ers may end up not even winning their division. And they annihilated the Packers.
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All nonsense this isn't ncaa basketball you get no extra consideration for playing a supposed tougher schedule. Any team can lose to any team and they do especially on the the road.
I'm not making that argument, but when I look at 13-3 Packers vs a potential 12-4 49ers....guess which team I think is better? Guess which most people will say is better? The records say one thing...how many games you won and lost...they don't say who you played as a benefit or detriment to that record. I don't think you are suggesting all 12-4 or 13-3 records are equal...or maybe you are. In my view, who you played, where you played, how you played...matters.
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I honestly have no idea how anyone watches the NFL without the ticket.
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Look, if you don't think the Packers got a huge break playing the Chiefs in Kansas City without the reigning MVP in their lineup, that is your opinion. But it is a very dumb one.
I didn't say they didn't get a break. Kc is still a very difficult team to beat at home and have lots of weapons not to mention Matt Moore played a great game. What is dumb is minimizing a 13-3 team and a 1 or 2 seed because they didn't win in the way you wanted.
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I honestly have no idea how anyone watches the NFL without the ticket.
Well, with the $$ charged by the NFL a lot of other people would like to, but it has become cost-prohibitive for some. But that's a story for another day.
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I honestly have no idea how anyone watches the NFL without the ticket.
There are many ways.
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I didn't say they didn't get a break. Kc is still a very difficult team to beat at home and have lots of weapons not to mention Matt Moore played a great game. What is dumb is minimizing a 13-3 team and a 1 or 2 seed because they didn't win in the way you wanted.
If you can't see objectively and subjectively how this Packers 13-3 team is rather weak in comparison to other teams who have finished with that record, I don't know what to tell you.
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There are many ways.
Not legally...not legally in the United States...there is only one legal way....but legal don't mean much to some.
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There are many ways.
Yeah most weeks I don't really care. If the game that I am watching sucks, I'll just do something else. But the fact that Fox still has this stupid Cowboys game on is really weird.
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Titans are going to go to New England and beat them next weekend.
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There are many ways.
Well yeah, but having a network dictate what games you get to watch based where you live in 2020 is ridiculously dumb (that was my point).
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Yeah most weeks I don't really care. If the game that I am watching sucks, I'll just do something else. But the fact that Fox still has this stupid Cowboys game on is really weird.
All about ratings and $$$. Most popular team in the NFL, highest ratings on average the last 20 years, the amount of phone calls and pissed off fans if they go away from a Cowboys game isn't worth it to them usually. Can happen, but really rare.
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Well yeah, but having a network dictate what games you get to watch based where you live in 2020 is ridiculously dumb (that was my point).
Until someone comes in to protect those paying for those rights, what's the better way? That's the dilemma. The NFL doesn't want to be almost solely on cable (the NBA's huge achilles), nor can they afford to be only streaming....that leaves you with Broadcast and their huge wallets paying for the lions' share. Things will continue to shift, but the challenge the NFL is having right now is who will fill the void in terms of increased dollars they want to grow their revenues. Complex puzzle due to the nature of technology changes as well as where the dollars come from.
There is also the big concern whether streaming can handle all of those games at one time....DAZN, Netflix, HBO, Hulu and others have so far failed to pull it off for a single event. Eventually we get there, but not yet.
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Not legally...not legally in the United States...there is only one legal way....but legal don't mean much to some.
Well, you could always go to one of 10,000+ bars/restaurants that have the Ticket and do it that way.
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I'm not making that argument, but when I look at 13-3 Packers vs a potential 12-4 49ers....guess which team I think is better? Guess which most people will say is better? The records say one thing...how many games you won and lost...they don't say who you played as a benefit or detriment to that record. I don't think you are suggesting all 12-4 or 13-3 records are equal...or maybe you are. In my view, who you played, where you played, how you played...matters.
What I am saying is 13-3 is 13-3 and it shouldn't be discounted. Every team in the NFL plays tough games. I think I it was Parcels who said you are what your record says you are.
I think the best teams in nfc are saints then 49ers then packers. I think it is wide open this year and not much difference between the top 4. I know you are smarter than to take one game and use that as the ultimate measuring stick. So do you think Atlanta is much better than the saints because they whacked them? I don't.
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The Patriots could have secured the No. 2 seed and first-round bye today by beating the "easy" Dolphins at home. Couldn't do it.
The Seahawks could have positioned themselves for No. 1 overall seed last week by beating the "easy" Cardinals at home. Instead, got trounced by 2 TDs.
The Steelers could have all but wrapped up a playoff spot last week by beating the "easy" Jets. Couldn't do it.
Etc, etc, etc.
Obviously, it's an advantage to play mediocre (or worse) teams. But you still have to win the games. The Packers and Chiefs could have suffered the same fate today that the Patriots and Seahawks did ... but they found ways to pull out games against lousy teams.
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Well, you could always go to one of 10,000+ bars/restaurants that have the Ticket and do it that way.
Yes...that's a commercial established option. From a residential perspective, there is only one legal way. in this country through two sources (satellite or OTT in limited areas) and procured by one company to do so in the USA, but as noted not everyone is so keen on following legal options in this country for any number of things. Lots of bars have been hit hard, fined and even shut down. Some individual have also...some pretty famous ones. Comes down to resources, budget and law enforcement (some states are really keen on clamping down, others not so much).
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What I am saying is 13-3 is 13-3 and it shouldn't be discounted. Every team in the NFL plays tough games. I think I it was Parcels who said you are what your record says you are.
I think the best teams in nfc are saints then 49ers then packers. I think it is wide open this year and not much difference between the top 4. I know you are smarter than to take one game and use that as the ultimate measuring stick. So do you think Atlanta is much better than the saints because they whacked them? I don't.
Yup, Parcells or Denny Green...someone. It's naive, in my opinion, to suggest they are the same. It is absolutely true you can only play the teams on your schedule, but some teams have a much higher mountain to overcome than others and their record shows it. Saints are great at home, can be beat on the road. 49ers and Seattle are really tough. The NFC East sucks, yet the Eagles beat the Packers in GB. The outdoor weather will help the Packers to some level, I just think they have not been that impressive this year for the record they have...too many close call wins against bad football teams, soft schedule, etc. Doesn't mean they cannot get all the way to Miami where I'll be happy to watch them play when in attendance, but I would also be surprised if they got there.
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Well yeah, but having a network dictate what games you get to watch based where you live in 2020 is ridiculously dumb (that was my point).
Sure. But no one should be surprised about it given the current leadership of the NFL.
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Congrats to Christian McCaffrey on becoming the third player in NFL history to have 1,000 yards rushing and 1,000 yards receiving in the same season, joining Marshall Faulk (1999) and Roger Craig (1985).
His 2,392 yards from scrimmage were third most ever, he broke his own single-season record for receptions by a RB with 119, and he scored 19 TDs.
That he accomplished all of that playing behind a bad offensive line and alongside a trio of QBs who either were hurt or horrible (or both) says a lot about his talent.
Yes, McCaffrey's accomplishment was little more than polish on the turd that was this putrid Panthers season, but he is one hell of a football player.
I just hope his team can do some winning before his career is spent.
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End of Raiders/Broncos was bonkers.
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McCaffrey won many people (including me) their fantasy football championship.
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I know it will never happen, but an EPL like last day of NFL of the Sunday season would be so much fun. 16 games at like 4pm EST, across ESPN, CBS, ABC, FOX, NFL...make it a huge event the Sunday after XMas
Do what I did then. I went to a bar and restaurant along the Indian River in Florida that had a Direct TV Sunday NFL package. Went with my wife, children and aunt. We watched the Packers, Bears and Saints simultaneously (specific game depended on to whom we were a fan of) all the while watching the Patriots lose to Miami (with both Miami and New England fans in the bar), the Falcons beat Tampa and the Jets beat the Buffalo Bills.
The bar atmosphere was fantastic and there were enough Packers fans in attendance (including a family of four all of whom were wearing Marquette shirts) to make the restaurant Lambeau South. The Miami, New Orleans and Bear games all ended simultaneously and the Packers about five minutes later. The place was rocking.
Walked about before the 4:25 games started screaming “SUP-ER. BO-WL” with my fellow Packers fans. Was even happy the Bears won!
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McCaffrey won many people (including me) their fantasy football championship.
Smart man, C-dubs!
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Freddy Kitchens fired.
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McCaffrey won many people (including me) their fantasy football championship.
Only psychopaths play a FF championship in week 17
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Freddy Kitchens fired.
Well, if you can't stand the heat ...
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Freddy Kitchens fired.
Mike McCarthy come on down
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Well, if you can't stand the heat ...
He's available for you guys, now. 8-)
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Only psychopaths play a FF championship in week 17
Mine was over last week. I was referring to the full season.
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Mike McCarthy come on down
Yeah if I’m McCarthy I take that job over Carolina.
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Yeah if I’m McCarthy I take that job over Carolina.
Yeah plus he has connections with Dorsey and especially elliot wolf. Wolf is probably on the phone with right now.
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He's available for you guys, now. 8-)
Everybody knew McCarthy wouldn't go long without getting a new gig. Same with Rivera.
Kitchens? See ya!
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Yeah plus he has connections with Dorsey and especially elliot wolf. Wolf is probably on the phone with right now.
Dealing with Carolina fans alone would steer me to Cleveland.
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Sure. But no one should be surprised about it given the current leadership of the NFL.
Considering this has been their model for 27 years at a minimum, goes beyond "current leadership" in how they approach their model, one which they have made very successful. Other leagues are in a lot worse shape with their distribution deals and revenues.....just pointing that out.
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McCarthy will wind up coaching the Giants.
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Considering this has been their model for 27 years at a minimum, goes beyond "current leadership" in how they approach their model, one which they have made very successful. Other leagues are in a lot worse shape with their distribution deals and revenues.....just pointing that out.
You are 100% right that the NFL has been successful with its model. But I doubt that it's successful BECAUSE of this model.
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Dealing with Carolina fans alone would steer me to Cleveland.
Is there a stigma about Carolina fans? I’ve not heard issues with them as far as not wanting to coach there.
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You are 100% right that the NFL has been successful with its model. But I doubt that it's successful BECAUSE of this model.
Well, when you consider the NFL was clear number 2 for many years and made some smart decisions, especially on the television side....will agree to disagree. Things are changing, they are doing a lot with Amazon, doing stuff in Canada and Europe with DAZN, obviously cable / network / OTT here in the States. I've never seen any company or organization except for DISNEY cut up rights and monetize them to the nth degree. They are brilliant at it.
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Well, when you consider the NFL was clear number 2 for many years and made some smart decisions, especially on the television side....will agree to disagree.
They moved from #2 to #1 decades ago for a number of reasons, television being the primary one no doubt. But I think the model that they used in the 1970s and 80s seems very out of date for 2020.
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Is there a stigma about Carolina fans? I’ve not heard issues with them as far as not wanting to coach there.
Well, may be be related that their former owner was a huge fan jeans Friday.
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They moved from #2 to #1 decades ago for a number of reasons, television being the primary one no doubt. But I think the model that they used in the 1970s and 80s seems very out of date for 2020.
From a consumer perspective...yes. From a financial perspective, they could have changed it months ago and didn't...because the $$$ didn't make it so.
Until that flips, you will continue to see a patchwork approach. Let's not forget that what you want to see is not helping MLB, NBA, etc. Mark Cuban has been hot about this of late. The ESPN guys as well....all this money spent on all these rights and yet social media delivers 5 minute full highlights within 30 minutes of a game's completion...why even bother wasting 2 or 3 hours watching a game anymore? The media companies are asking why they are writing big checks to the sports leagues if they are devaluing the content in the process....excellent questions. They cannot have it both ways, and that's one of the fun rubs going on in the sports television discussions. Technology can be a God send, it can also cannibalize and destroy your profits and erode your loyal fans in exchange for a bunch of fans that kind of notice / have a limited attention span. Lots of interesting lessons being learned right now.
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From a consumer perspective...yes. From a financial perspective, they could have changed it months ago and didn't...because the $$$ didn't make it so.
Until that flips, you will continue to see a patchwork approach. Let's not forget that what you want to see is not helping MLB, NBA, etc. Mark Cuban has been hot about this of late. The ESPN guys as well....all this money spent on all these rights and yet social media delivers 5 minute full highlights within 30 minutes of a game's completion...why even bother wasting 2 or 3 hours watching a game anymore? The media companies are asking why they are writing big checks to the sports leagues if they are devaluing the content in the process....excellent questions. They cannot have it both ways, and that's one of the fun rubs going on in the sports television discussions. Technology can be a God send, it can also cannibalize and destroy your profits and erode your loyal fans in exchange for a bunch of fans that kind of notice / have a limited attention span. Lots of interesting lessons being learned right now.
You know more than I do about this topic, but it would seem to me that it would be better to then provide more and better content by the traditional media than stick to the old one.
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Is there a stigma about Carolina fans? I’ve not heard issues with them as far as not wanting to coach there.
It's more about their inability to stick to the team. They have a bad reputation of letting tons of other fans buy their tickets, creating a not so friendly home field advantage. There are worse teams for that...Rams, Chargers, Cowboys even. They commit the reverse sin of not traveling very well.
Carolina's fans typically ranked 23rd to 28th in surveys we receive from various sources / consultant shops. The only fans that typically rank worse are Cardinals, Chargers, Dolphins, Falcons, Bucs, and Jags. A few others come in and out of that ranking. Notice a lot of these are from one part of the country...the NFL is second to college football in many of these parts. Fans are often transplants from other cities.
Top fan bases are Packers, Steelers, Chiefs, Eagles, etc.
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It's more about their inability to stick to the team. They have a bad reputation of letting tons of other fans buy their tickets, creating a not so friendly home field advantage. There are worse teams for that...Rams, Chargers, Cowboys even. They commit the reverse sin of not traveling very well.
Carolina's fans typically ranked 23rd to 28th in surveys we receive from various sources / consultant shops. The only fans that typically rank worse are Cardinals, Chargers, Dolphins, Falcons, Bucs, and Jags. A few others come in and out of that ranking. Notice a lot of these are from one part of the country...the NFL is second to college football in many of these parts. Fans are often transplants from other cities.
Top fan bases are Packers, Steelers, Chiefs, Eagles, etc.
Interesting. I appreciate the insight.
Sounds like Rivera is going to Washington. I could see McCarthy in Cleveland. Although, I assumed he was going to go there last year.
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I honestly have no idea how anyone watches the NFL without the ticket.
YTTV
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How does that PI not get booth reviewed?
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Seattle taking that delay was brutal.
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Seattle taking that delay was brutal.
Yep. They were acting like they took a timeout.
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Brilliant coach Pete Carroll has team suffer delay of game at the 1 yard line to lose it.
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How does that PI not get booth reviewed?
They wadded through a whole year of "I don't know what PI is anymore" to swallow their whistles there. Never underestimate the NFLs ability to shoot itself in the foot.
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How does that PI not get booth reviewed?
I agree...Terry McCauly does too and said so live...same Terry who said the OSU call switch last night was so wrong. Terry two for two the last few nights on two huge calls....unfortunately the teams impacted got hurt in both cases.
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I had to watch that last :42 again. George Fant was injured on the 4th and 10 first down catch, busted his a$$ to get to the line to avoid a run off. However, that play cost them 20 seconds. If Fant stays down, the Seahawks actually gain 4 seconds (first down catch is marked down at :35).
Wilson spikes it, play clock starts, Fant waves off going out, so he doesn’t cause the delay. Lynch doesn’t jog on until :19 on the play clock, Seattle is still huddling when the play clock runs out. That’s just awful by the Seahawks.
Obvious PI review should have happened on 3rd down.
Greenlaw with a tackle that will have gigantic ramifications long after tonight.
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I agree...Terry McCauly does too and said so live...same Terry who said the OSU call switch last night was so wrong. Terry two for two the last few nights on two huge calls....unfortunately the teams impacted got hurt in both cases.
The call switch was tough because you had to see it in real time not super dooper slo mo. Hell slow it down enough and you could make it look like he had it for however many seconds you slow it down to. Real time, it was bang bang and that’s not control
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Packers could have been the ugliest 1 seed in history
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The call switch was tough because you had to see it in real time not super dooper slo mo. Hell slow it down enough and you could make it look like he had it for however many seconds you slow it down to. Real time, it was bang bang and that’s not control
Disagree brother Rocket...took 4 steps, call on field was catch, if it was in end zone would be a TD, nothing in video irrefutable to overturn.
Separately, Pete Carroll’s wizardry at the end not very good...but he is a swell guy. ;)
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Packers could have been the ugliest 1 seed in history
2010 Atlanta Falcons in my book. 2008 Titans were another one. 2011 Patriots.
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Assuming the Saints beat the Vikings, winner of Seattle/Philly gets screwed by the NFL with the playoff scheduling. That game is the late Sunday game in the Wild Card round. San Fran hosts the early Saturday game on Divisional weekend. Either team will have one less prep day and a full travel day no matter the outcome.
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I agree...Terry McCauly does too and said so live...same Terry who said the OSU call switch last night was so wrong. Terry two for two the last few nights on two huge calls....unfortunately the teams impacted got hurt in both cases.
The same one you were saying isn't an NFL ref anymore a couple hours ago? Weird.
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The same one you were saying isn't an NFL ref anymore a couple hours ago? Weird.
He’s not...he quit the NFL after 20 seasons, but he is employed by NBC as an expert official for Sunday Night football and Notre Dame broadcasts. He is also still employed by the AAC in college football. He is more than capable at being an expert in both versions of football and has been for a long time.
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Say what you will about Carolina fans, but they definitely missed Cam
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Seattle taking that delay was brutal.
I thought it was bad at the time, but probably not that big of a deal. They had no time outs at that point and maybe 22 seconds on the clock as I recall. They probably weren't running the ball there even though they wanted to bring in Lynch. Probably were going to use him as a decoy. If they don't get in with a run they maybe spike it and have one more play. A pass from 6 yards out might be easier than a pass from 1 yard out anyway. The end of that game was mismanaged in other ways by Carroll.
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Assuming the Saints beat the Vikings, winner of Seattle/Philly gets screwed by the NFL with the playoff scheduling. That game is the late Sunday game in the Wild Card round. San Fran hosts the early Saturday game on Divisional weekend. Either team will have one less prep day and a full travel day no matter the outcome.
Is that determined ahead of time by NFL or do the networks determine that?
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I thought it was bad at the time, but probably not that big of a deal. They had no time outs at that point and maybe 22 seconds on the clock as I recall. They probably weren't running the ball there even though they wanted to bring in Lynch. Probably were going to use him as a decoy. If they don't get in with a run they maybe spike it and have one more play. A pass from 6 yards out might be easier than a pass from 1 yard out anyway. The end of that game was mismanaged in other ways by Carroll.
You don't think being inside the 1 versus being just outside the five is that big of a deal? It's a huge deal. It takes the run completely off the table.
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Assuming the Saints beat the Vikings, winner of Seattle/Philly gets screwed by the NFL with the playoff scheduling. That game is the late Sunday game in the Wild Card round. San Fran hosts the early Saturday game on Divisional weekend. Either team will have one less prep day and a full travel day no matter the outcome.
The Seahawks and Eagles screwed themselves by not having better seasons.
Don't like having to play a wild-card game and then having to travel to play a divisional-round game 6 days later? Win more games!
The Seahawks, in particular, could have avoided their fate by not looking incompetent at the end of last night's game. Don't take that penalty and do score that TD ... and they get 2 weeks rest.
The Eagles get a home playoff game after stumbling and bumbling most of the season. They should be thanking their lucky stars that the NFL playoff system still rewards division champions, regardless of how much those division champions were outclassed by the best non-division-winners all season long.
All IMHO, of course.
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You don't think being inside the 1 versus being just outside the five is that big of a deal? It's a huge deal. It takes the run completely off the table.
Did you not read my post? I am not sure the run was on the table. If they run and don't get in that may be the ball game. There was around 20 seconds left and they had no timeouts. Maybe they spike it and get one more play if they run and don't get in. If they throw they have 4 chances to get it in. That's a ballsy play to run it against that defensive front in that situation. Lynch wasn't exactly gashing holes through the line prior to that. I take my chances with Russell Wilson throwing it 4 times.
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Did you not read my post? I am not sure the run was on the table. If they run and don't get in that may be the ball game. There was around 20 seconds left and they had no timeouts. Maybe they spike it and get one more play if they run and don't get in. If they throw they have 4 chances to get it in. That's a ballsy play to run it against that defensive front in that situation. Lynch wasn't exactly gashing holes through the line prior to that. I take my chances with Russell Wilson throwing it 4 times.
I agree that they probably wouldn't have run, but Pete Carroll is an unconventional guy, and he might have. Being inside the 1 gives them options, gives Carroll and his play-caller different things to consider.
At the 5 1/2 yard line, the defense knew Wilson was going to pass every time.
On the half-yard line, Wilson could fake a handoff to Lynch, bootleg, have a run-pass option, that kind of thing. Definitely opens up the playbook more.
But sure, nothing would have been guaranteed, even if the Seahawks hadn't screwed the pooch by taking that penalty.
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Did you not read my post? I am not sure the run was on the table. If they run and don't get in that may be the ball game. There was around 20 seconds left and they had no timeouts. Maybe they spike it and get one more play if they run and don't get in. If they throw they have 4 chances to get it in. That's a ballsy play to run it against that defensive front in that situation. Lynch wasn't exactly gashing holes through the line prior to that. I take my chances with Russell Wilson throwing it 4 times.
I read your post. The first play isn't the only time you can run. What if you throw a couple incomplete passes and you are down to one play left with just a couple seconds to go. Run is definitely on the table then. Furthermore, defendng a short route of a yard or two into the end zone is much harder than defending with five yards in between.
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I read your post. The first play isn't the only time you can run. What if you throw a couple incomplete passes and you are down to one play left with just a couple seconds to go. Run is definitely on the table then. Furthermore, defendng a short route of a yard or two into the end zone is much harder than defending with five yards in between.
It does take options off the table like MU82 said I agree with that, but you only have one chance to run in that situation, there was around 20 seconds left. Maybe you spike the ball and can run one more play. You give yourself more options/plays if you throw the ball. Maybe they run with a couple of seconds on the last play like you said. I am not sure defending a one yard route is harder than defending a 6 yard route. Its not as cut and dry as you make it out to be. It would have been interesting to find out.
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Disagree brother Rocket...took 4 steps, call on field was catch, if it was in end zone would be a TD, nothing in video irrefutable to overturn.
Separately, Pete Carroll’s wizardry at the end not very good...but he is a swell guy. ;)
Correct me if I’m wrong here, but to have control long enough for a touchdown may be different than exhibiting control in the field of play, i.e. a football move in order for a fumble to happen. I know that sounds hypocritical, but when I did see the first replay slowed down slightly, it definitely looked like a fumble. One of the announcers did stress the seeing the play in real time though and got me hooked in
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Pat Shurmur fired.
Giants might be the best job available. Have a potential franchise QB in place, an elite RB and a top 5 draft pick. And they play in what's currently the league's weakest division. On the downside ... Dave Gettleman.
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Rivera to Redskins confirmed.
Good hire by them. The Redskins are a nightmare, but they're in no worse shape than the Panthers were when he took over after the 2010 season. Much could depend on whether Haskins ends up being anywhere near as good as Newton turned out to be. Also, even though Richardson was a shytty owner, not many are as bad as Snyder.
I wish Rivera well. Truly a good guy, and a pretty darn good coach.
Pat Shurmur fired.
Giants might be the best job available. Have a potential franchise QB in place, an elite RB and a top 5 draft pick. And they play in what's currently the league's weakest division. On the downside ... Dave Gettleman.
I'm not a big Gettleman fan, either, although he did have plenty of hits along with his misses in Charlotte. His last Panthers draft saw him take McCaffrey at No. 8 overall, and there were plenty of critics of that choice, including some folks here on Scoop. Other very good draft picks included James Bradbury and Kuwann Short in the second round, and Trai Turner in the third round. But he stupidly/stubbornly let Josh Norman walk after the 2015 season, idiotically threw away Steve Smith, and made many other similarly poor decisions, often seemingly with an ax to grind.
But you're right -- the Giants job doesn't seem bad at all despite Gettleman.
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Rivera to Redskins confirmed.
Good hire by them. The Redskins are a nightmare, but they're in no worse shape than the Panthers were when he took over after the 2010 season. Much could depend on whether Haskins ends up being anywhere near as good as Newton turned out to be. Also, even though Richardson was a shytty owner, not many are as bad as Snyder.
I wish Rivera well. Truly a good guy, and a pretty darn good coach.
I hope, for his sake, Rivera took the job only on condition he receives control over football operations. Otherwise, he's in for a rough time.
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Pat Shurmur fired.
Giants might be the best job available. Have a potential franchise QB in place, an elite RB and a top 5 draft pick. And they play in what's currently the league's weakest division. On the downside ... Dave Gettleman.
Bellichick to the Giants
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Correct me if I’m wrong here, but to have control long enough for a touchdown may be different than exhibiting control in the field of play, i.e. a football move in order for a fumble to happen. I know that sounds hypocritical, but when I did see the first replay slowed down slightly, it definitely looked like a fumble. One of the announcers did stress the seeing the play in real time though and got me hooked in
He summarizes quite well this morning
https://twitter.com/SNFRules/status/1211661434695770112
He also disagreed with the punter roughing call, as did I
https://twitter.com/SNFRules/status/1211131696281616384
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Greg Olsen, acquired back in 2011 in arguably the best trade in Panthers history, sounded like a man ready to retire after yesterday's game.
https://www.panthers.com/news/that-felt-a-lot-like-goodbye-from-greg-olsen
He had a heck of a career, probably one of the top 10 tight ends in NFL history. And he was an extremely visible guy in the Charlotte community; helped raise millions and millions of dollars for charities, and personally donated millions.
Did very well in several brief announcing stints. Wouldn't be surprised if he ends up on MNF or another prime gig.
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I thought it was bad at the time, but probably not that big of a deal. They had no time outs at that point and maybe 22 seconds on the clock as I recall. They probably weren't running the ball there even though they wanted to bring in Lynch. Probably were going to use him as a decoy. If they don't get in with a run they maybe spike it and have one more play. A pass from 6 yards out might be easier than a pass from 1 yard out anyway. The end of that game was mismanaged in other ways by Carroll.
The wise words of wisdom brought to you by man who thinks not having maholmes is "no big deal"
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It does take options off the table like MU82 said I agree with that, but you only have one chance to run in that situation, there was around 20 seconds left. Maybe you spike the ball and can run one more play. You give yourself more options/plays if you throw the ball. Maybe they run with a couple of seconds on the last play like you said. I am not sure defending a one yard route is harder than defending a 6 yard route. Its not as cut and dry as you make it out to be. It would have been interesting to find out.
If you gave coaches the option, they would take first and goal at the 1 over the 6 any day of the week. Not even close.
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The wise words of wisdom brought to you by man who thinks not having maholmes is "no big deal"
Dude, what the hell is wrong with you. Calling someone dumb is not a credible take. Show me where I said it "was no big deal" like you quoted. Beating KC at home is not easy with or without Mahomes ask the Vikings. Of course it is easier to beat them without Mahomes, but still a quality win on the road.
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If you gave coaches the option, they would take first and goal at the 1 over the 6 any day of the week. Not even close.
Ok football genius. There was 20 seconds left with no time outs that's the caveat. Better at the 1 than the 6 ok I will concede that, but not as big of a deal in that particular situation.
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Greg Olsen, acquired back in 2011 in arguably the best trade in Panthers history, sounded like a man ready to retire after yesterday's game.
https://www.panthers.com/news/that-felt-a-lot-like-goodbye-from-greg-olsen
He had a heck of a career, probably one of the top 10 tight ends in NFL history. And he was an extremely visible guy in the Charlotte community; helped raise millions and millions of dollars for charities, and personally donated millions.
Did very well in several brief announcing stints. Wouldn't be surprised if he ends up on MNF or another prime gig.
He was great in his announcing debut this year. Should be a natural transition if he wants it. And his charity work can't be understated. He was exceptional even before leaving Chicago, and even more so after
Sure fire HOF TE for me. Shame he was wasted his early years in Chicago. Light on accolades because his best years went up against Gronk and Kelce (who will probably be top 3 TEs when they are done), but he was a consistent and dominant for a 5 year stretch before getting banged up. Gronk, Kelce, Gonzalez, Sharp, and Gates are the top 5 of all time for me. But then I think Olsen is right there in a group with Witten, Kellen Winslow, and Ozzie Newsome. Ertz is on his way too if he keeps this level of play up.
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If you gave coaches the option, they would take first and goal at the 1 over the 6 any day of the week. Not even close.
I mean, you're both right.
First-and-goal from the 1 undoubtedly is preferential to first-and-goal from the 6.
At the same time, under those particular circumstances, the negative impact it had on the Seahawks' options was less than it would have been under different circumstances. Given the time and lack of timeouts, Seattle was likely to pass either way, and five more yards of field to work with isn't necessarily a bad thing in that situation.
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I mean, you're both right.
First-and-goal from the 1 undoubtedly is preferential to first-and-goal from the 6.
At the same time, under those particular circumstances, the negative impact it had on the Seahawks' options was less than it would have been under different circumstances. Given the time and lack of timeouts, Seattle was likely to pass either way, and five more yards of field to work with isn't necessarily a bad thing in that situation.
No. We are not "both right." His original statement is that it was "probably not that big of a deal."
It is a big deal. According to stat guys, that penalty decreased their Game Winning Chance stat by 13 percentage points. That's significant.
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I mean, you're both right.
First-and-goal from the 1 undoubtedly is preferential to first-and-goal from the 6.
At the same time, under those particular circumstances, the negative impact it had on the Seahawks' options was less than it would have been under different circumstances. Given the time and lack of timeouts, Seattle was likely to pass either way, and five more yards of field to work with isn't necessarily a bad thing in that situation.
That's exactly my point. It actually isn't worth all the effort discussing it.
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No. We are not "both right." His original statement is that it was "probably not that big of a deal."
It is a big deal. According to stat guys, that penalty decreased their Game Winning Chance stat by 13 percentage points. That's significant.
If I tell you, you are right will you just go away.
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No. We are not "both right." His original statement is that it was "probably not that big of a deal."
It is a big deal. According to stat guys, that penalty decreased their Game Winning Chance stat by 13 percentage points. That's significant.
I disagree, but whatever.
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If I tell you, you are right will you just go away.
LOL. You keep responding to me, but you get pissy if I respond to you. Classic.
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LOL. You keep responding to me, but you get pissy if I respond to you. Classic.
Not pissy, you are entitled to your opinion as am I. It is just not worth arguing it to the nth degree.
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He was great in his announcing debut this year. Should be a natural transition if he wants it. And his charity work can't be understated. He was exceptional even before leaving Chicago, and even more so after
Sure fire HOF TE for me. Shame he was wasted his early years in Chicago. Light on accolades because his best years went up against Gronk and Kelce (who will probably be top 3 TEs when they are done), but he was a consistent and dominant for a 5 year stretch before getting banged up. Gronk, Kelce, Gonzalez, Sharp, and Gates are the top 5 of all time for me. But then I think Olsen is right there in a group with Witten, Kellen Winslow, and Ozzie Newsome. Ertz is on his way too if he keeps this level of play up.
He's come a long way since he was a knucklehead at "The U" (as was often the case for footballers there back then). Time, a great family life, dealing with adversity, etc, all help a person mature.
Lots of outstanding TEs over the years, of course, and I like your list. (And don't forget about a certain tight end who played and coached for a certain Chicago team, my friend!) Olsen might end up being top-15 or top-20 rather than top-10, and we'll see if the HoF gives him a call. I hope so.
The shame for the Bears was that Olsen was just ready to be a star right when they hired Martz. They committed to "system" rather than the players they had, and made what turned out to be a horrible decision. It happens ... and this Panthers fan thanks the Bears very much!
One of my most fun games since moving here was when the Bears visited in 2014, and I went with my wife and Bears-fan son (who was visiting from Chicago). The guy sitting right in front of us was a Chicago fan wearing an Olsen Bears jersey. I thought it odd that he would want to advertise that trade, and we had some fun exchanges during the game. I was really loving it when Olsen scored 2 TDs, including the winner with about 2 mins left.
The Bears helped the Panthers a lot that day, blowing a 14-point lead thanks to an idiotic INT by Cutler (of course), a fumble by Forte (pretty rare), a missed chip shot by Gould (quite rare) and finally a game-clinching fumble by Cutler (of course). My son and I had made a bet, and he had to wear my Panthers jersey the whole next day. (I would have had to wear a Bears jersey.)
Not that I remember silly stuff like that or anything ...
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Not pissy, you are entitled to your opinion as am I. It is just not worth arguing it to the nth degree.
Then you are free to stop doing so at any time.
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Jerry Jones is pissed
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Jerry Jones is pissed
That's a real shame
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Jerry Jones is pissed
He should be pissed at himself for hanging on to these guys for as long as he did. Not to mention his overall mismanagement of the organization for the past 25 years.
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Jerry Jones is pissed
I guess he'll have to take some solace in the fact that the team he bought for $140 million in 1989 is now worth an estimated $5.5 billion. Damn, I hate the Cowboys (and Jones in particular).
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https://www.barstoolsports.com/dmv/fun-coming-out-of-dallas-3-different-cowboys-reporters-are-reporting-3-different-things-about-jason-garrett-being-fired
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I guess he'll have to take some solace in the fact that the team he bought for $140 million in 1989 is now worth an estimated $5.5 billion. Damn, I hate the Cowboys (and Jones in particular).
Imagine being a Cowboys fan...its infuriating.
And all of this back and forth arguing between Fluffy, Hairy, Pakuni....really unsettling.
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https://www.barstoolsports.com/dmv/fun-coming-out-of-dallas-3-different-cowboys-reporters-are-reporting-3-different-things-about-jason-garrett-being-fired
Reporters just reporting, eh
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The upcoming AFC divisional round matchup between Buffalo and Houston reminded me of a story of my misspent youth.
In 1988 the Warren Moon Oilers were to to meet the Jim Kelly Bills in Buffalo for a divisional round game. Many here in Houston fondly remembered Jim Kelly with the USFL Houston Gamblers('83-'85). Mouse Davis ran the original Run and Shoot, and Kelly's games here were very entertaining,
Kelly was a big $ signing by Gamblers owner Jerry Argovitz, in 1983. In addition to his $500,000 salary Kelly got a $500k cash signing bonus. The problem was local dentist Argovitz couldn't swing the (then) large cash bonus without borrowing the $ from a Houston bank and the bank required Kelly sign a guaranty of the Argovitz loan. Argovitz supposedly told Jim ..."this is just a formality....sign here, Jim".
Predictably, Argovitz and the Gamblers ended in bankruptcy. Kelly moved on to sign a then huge $5million contract with the Bills. Kelly had $ ...and I represented the bank holding the defaulted Argovitz loan...still guaranteed by Kelly. We had a local collection suit pending, but had personal service problems on Kelly.
On the Oilers/Bills game announcement....Problem solved!! I told the associate to Fedex the service package to Buffalo. He responds no way will the Buffalo guys serve their star QB...I guessed, instead the sheriff would enjoy a chance to go out and watch a Bills practice. Sure enough, two nights later ...the local 10pm sports news guy, Tim Melton, breaks in to say...... "Ladies and Gentleman, we cant verify the story, but I just got a call a few minutes ago from Bills QB Jim Kelly. Jim is totally irate that some Houston bank just served him with a suit on a debt he was promised never to owe, and worse still he claims they served him at practice....just to upset him before the big game with the Oilers on Sunday." HaHa
..........flipping from Ch 13 to Ch 2....the same story was repeated and rushed to air. Kelly had called Ch 2 also. Ha Ha
I cheered aloud when the announcers during the national broadcast of the Sunday Bills/Oilers game noted how ..."Jim Kelly is overcoming adversity today as... Kelly is coming off a very difficult week in which he was sued by a Houston bank"...Ha Ha
Sadly ....Oilers still lost 17-10
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Imagine being a Cowboys fan...its infuriating.
And all of this back and forth arguing between Fluffy, Hairy, Pakuni....really unsettling.
Wait, I thought you liked back and forth arguing. ;D
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Wait, I thought you liked back and forth arguing. ;D
Only if productive and serves a purpose....I especially like it when others do it because it destroys so many narratives here.
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https://twitter.com/Johnathan_Wood1/status/1211729660670857217?s=19
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https://twitter.com/Johnathan_Wood1/status/1211729660670857217?s=19
Makes sense given the Nagy connection.
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https://twitter.com/Johnathan_Wood1/status/1211729660670857217?s=19
For those of you who thought the Bears' offense was a little too exciting in 2019 ...
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If I'm the Bears, I'd try to trade down one of my second round picks and try to get an early third round back to go after Jalen Hurts.
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If I'm the Bears, I'd try to trade down one of my second round picks and try to get an early third round back to go after Jalen Hurts.
I love Jalen Hurts in a "football playing Jesse" kind of way, but I don't think he's a starting NFL quarterback. I know Lamar Jackson's success has people thinking differently about the position, but Jalen isn't half the passer Lamar was in college. A third round pick isn't a huge gamble to take on him, but I'd keep my expectations low.
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I love Jalen Hurts in a "football playing Jesse" kind of way, but I don't think he's a starting NFL quarterback. I know Lamar Jackson's success has people thinking differently about the position, but Jalen isn't half the passer Lamar was in college. A third round pick isn't a huge gamble to take on him, but I'd keep my expectations low.
Agreed, for the record, I wasn't trying to compare him to Jackson or anyone else. I think whatever they do next year (Pace just said Mitch is their QB next year), they need to draft someone. Their picks at 43 and 50 are too high to take Hurts. If they were to trade down from 43 to the back end of the second round and pick up a third rounder in that trade, I think at that point it's worth taking Hurts or someone. I like Hurts pedigree and confidence. I don't know if that translates to him being an NFL QB, but it's basically the opposite of Mitch.
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I have absolutely no confidence in the Bears to do the wise thing right now. With another QB or with drafting one. Hurts, I worry about his accuracy a bit. The later round guy I wouldn't mind see a chance on is Montez from CU. Great size, good mobility, ton of experience, albeit on some disappointing teams.
But I'm sure if they do, they will get someone like Anthony Gordon from Wazzu, who I actually think is quite good, but only started 1 year. Seems like their kind of guy.
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Agreed, for the record, I wasn't trying to compare him to Jackson or anyone else. I think whatever they do next year (Pace just said Mitch is their QB next year), they need to draft someone. Their picks at 43 and 50 are too high to take Hurts. If they were to trade down from 43 to the back end of the second round and pick up a third rounder in that trade, I think at that point it's worth taking Hurts or someone. I like Hurts pedigree and confidence. I don't know if that translates to him being an NFL QB, but it's basically the opposite of Mitch.
FWIW (and caveat: I'm a Packers fan), but without a top overall pick type of slot to go after a consensus top grading QB, I think Chicago's best bet is to get a few shots on goal and hope one of them goes in. Take Hurts, bring in a free agent, trot Trubisky out again, and see who comes out on top. You might strike gold in a lower round selection like (and oh how I despise him) Russel Wilson.
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I feel better about the Cardinals than most. Tough out. 6-10, but going the right direction.
Close, what do I win? Not as awful a season as some had predicted. Future is bright.
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I have absolutely no confidence in the Bears to do the wise thing right now. With another QB or with drafting one. Hurts, I worry about his accuracy a bit. The later round guy I wouldn't mind see a chance on is Montez from CU. Great size, good mobility, ton of experience, albeit on some disappointing teams.
But I'm sure if they do, they will get someone like Anthony Gordon from Wazzu, who I actually think is quite good, but only started 1 year. Seems like their kind of guy.
Wags, you could run a better operation than Pace.
After Nagy said today that Mitch needs to improve his recognition and read defenses better, Pace then can to the mic and said Mitch doesn't need any improvement "above the shoulders".
In other words, the coach and GM who "say" they are on the same page aren't even on the same chapter. We don't know yet how good of a coach Nagy can be, but we have oodles of proof how bad of a GM that Pace can be.
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The fall guys have been identified.
Adam Jahns @adamjahns
The #Bears are firing offensive coordinator Mark Helfrich and offensive line coach Harry Hiestand.
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The Bears firing assistants two hours after their year end press conference is soooooooo Bears.
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Packers should draft a QB fairly high this year too.
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John Dorsey could be out at Cleveland. Man that Kitchens hire was a disaster. Front office was filled with former Packer guys too.
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Dorsey and the Browns possibly parting ways. Crazy 12 months for the Browns.
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I'll stick with my prediction....Tom Brady to the Chargers for 2020 season
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Bears clean house on the offensive side.
https://twitter.com/ZimmermanSXM/status/1212049662951272449?s=19
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As a Packer fan, I loved the Bears press conference today.
I always say that if you make a mistake, just ignore that fact and double down. Nagy knows that Mitch sucks, but Pace is still convinced he was a great pick.
Hard to know what leadership is worse - Bears or Bulls.
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John Dorsey could be out at Cleveland. Man that Kitchens hire was a disaster. Front office was filled with former Packer guys too.
Browns fans deserve better than Jimmy Haslam and family. What a disaster
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Bears clean house on the offensive side.
https://twitter.com/ZimmermanSXM/status/1212049662951272449?s=19
But keep their play caller. smh
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Browns fans deserve better than Jimmy Haslam and family. What a disaster
You know, as a Browns fan, I agree with you. But, Kitchens was a mistake. As much as it sucks that they’re starting over again, I’m glad they just acknowledged that it was a bad hire and moved on. Losing Dorsey sucks.
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You know, as a Browns fan, I agree with you. But, Kitchens was a mistake. As much as it sucks that they’re starting over again, I’m glad they just acknowledged that it was a bad hire and moved on. Losing Dorsey sucks.
I’m a Browns fan as well. Kitchens was an unmitigated disaster but dumping Dorsey will mean an exodus out from what it sounds like and those are good football people. The best thing that can happen is the Haslam’s selling.
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I'll stick with my prediction....Tom Brady to the Chargers for 2020 season
Now that’s a professional prognostication right there. Are you sure gisele won’t veto that one?
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As a Packer fan, I loved the Bears press conference today.
I always say that if you make a mistake, just ignore that fact and double down. Nagy knows that Mitch sucks, but Pace is still convinced he was a great pick.
Hard to know what leadership is worse - Bears or Bulls.
Don’t pay attention to what Pace says about Mitch. If they can somehow get a better QB, they will.
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I’m a Browns fan as well. Kitchens was an unmitigated disaster but dumping Dorsey will mean an exodus out from what it sounds like and those are good football people. The best thing that can happen is the Haslam’s selling.
From what one of my closest friends, a Browns fan, is telling me, Haslam is keen on giving the keys to DePodesta. They are claiming coaches they are interviewing didn’t want to work under Dorsey, but I think that’s all just a smokescreen for the DePodesta Moneyball angle
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From what one of my closest friends, a Browns fan, is telling me, Haslam is keen on giving the keys to DePodesta. They are claiming coaches they are interviewing didn’t want to work under Dorsey, but I think that’s all just a smokescreen for the DePodesta Moneyball angle
The DePodesta rumors have been going around for a while. The rumor is he currently meddles in the GM's decisions and that's what ultimately caused Dorsey to leave. If that's true not many good GM's would work under that set up. They will likely make Depodesta GM and get yes men to work under him IMO. That may work for them but keeping Depodesta in his current role and then hiring a different GM would probably fail. Doubtful ownership will make the correct decision. Sad for Browns fans who deserve better. Happy new year.
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Yeah it makes perfect sense to keep a lifelong baseball guy, who has been with the organization through the 3-36 Hue Jackson era and the 2016 draft debacle, instead of the guy with a proven personnel history in successful organizations.
I mean, I know Dorsey f*cked up with the hiring of Kitchens, but cmon...
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Yeah it makes perfect sense to keep a lifelong baseball guy, who has been with the organization through the 3-36 Hue Jackson era and the 2016 draft debacle, instead of the guy with a proven personnel history in successful organizations.
I mean, I know Dorsey f*cked up with the hiring of Kitchens, but cmon...
It's the Browns way. It probably came down to a pissing match between Dorsey and DePodesta and Dorsey lost. Now Highsmith is gone. Wolf may get the job and be willing to work under that arrangement because he wants the opportunity to be GM. If that's the case then Mc Carthy to Browns.
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If Wolf would even get the opportunity to hire the coach.
That being said, I think McCarthy would be a nice fit for the Browns or the Giants.
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I mean, I know Dorsey f*cked up with the hiring of Kitchens, but cmon...
Too early to say for sure, but Dorsey may also have whiffed on a #1 overall pick and the OBJ trade. Denzel Ward has been just OK and Austin Corbett was a big miss. The trade of Zeitler for Vernon was a loss, especially considering how bad the Browns o-line was this year.
None of this is a defense of DePodesta, but Dorsey's tenure hasn't exactly lived up to the hype.
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Giving an NFL GM only two years is insane. Draft picks can take awhile to pan out.
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The fall guys have been identified.
Adam Jahns @adamjahns
The #Bears are firing offensive coordinator Mark Helfrich and offensive line coach Harry Hiestand.
That really pokes a hole in the theories that Mariota goes to Chicago because of the past connection.
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Giving an NFL GM only two years is insane. Draft picks can take awhile to pan out.
Where I can squint really hard and see Haslam's perspective is that Dorsey had a shot at his coach... and bombed the selection horrifically. And there were chemistry issues up and down the roster.
Some of this is patched up with winning and a better coach, but if you don't have faith in the GM to identify that guy, I guess I don't know why you would keep your GM.
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Giving an NFL GM only two years is insane. Draft picks can take awhile to pan out.
Yep. Again, Baker was awful this year, but he went from a established and successful QB coach in a decent scheme to a 30 year old QB coach who had been coaching RBs last year and some of the most baffling and inconsistent play calling you will find. We’ve seen how much that can affect a young QB, and it’s not like he’s looked entirely hopeless.
As for OBJ, same thing, it’s hard to excel when you don’t even draw up plays looking for your top 3 WR. It was incredible how many times you’d watch a game and he’d be schemed as a decoy compared to how the Texans use Hopkins or the Steelers used to use AB
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Where I can squint really hard and see Haslam's perspective is that Dorsey had a shot at his coach... and bombed the selection horrifically. And there were chemistry issues up and down the roster.
Some of this is patched up with winning and a better coach, but if you don't have faith in the GM to identify that guy, I guess I don't know why you would keep your GM.
The problem I have is that Haslam has done this since he has owned the team. He constantly hits the reset button and never sticks with a plan. When you hire Dorsey, you are bringing in a Wolf protege. A guy who is going to build primarily thorugh the draft and build a solid foundation. Yeah he unnatural carnal knowledgeed up the coaching search last year no doubt. But sticking with the plan and giving him a second chance is better than going with a baseball guy and doing the "give the coach the power" thing which worked wonders with Hue Jackson.
Unless they manage to hire a real good coach, who will trust the personnel guys, I doubt its going to work. The dynamic with DePodesta is strange and makes little sense. And I think a lot of good coaches are going to not be very interested.
If you are McCarthy for instance, do you want that? Or do you want the Giants, with a history of hands off ownership and clear lines of responsibility?
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Giving an NFL GM only two years is insane. Draft picks can take awhile to pan out.
I'm not arguing for or against his firing (well, technically he quit), but rather the idea that Haslam forced out a guy who'd been doing his job well.
Dorsey made splashy moves that allowed the Browns seem relevant again, but a lot of those moves are looking uncertain at best, and in some cases just plain bad. The Browns are better now than when he was hired- it would be nearly impossible to be worse - but they're not in a good place either.
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WTH are the Cowboys doing with Garrett?
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I'm not arguing for or against his firing (well, technically he quit), but rather the idea that Haslam forced out a guy who'd been doing his job well.
Dorsey made splashy moves that allowed the Browns seem relevant again, but a lot of those moves are looking uncertain at best, and in some cases just plain bad. The Browns are better now than when he was hired- it would be nearly impossible to be worse - but they're not in a good place either.
I actually don’t agree with this. I think they are a good coach away from a playoff type of run. They have the NFC East and AFC South as opponents along with the Raiders and Jets. I think a soft schedule is a big reason why the Bills made a run this year and that Cleveland can do that next year.
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I actually don’t agree with this. I think they are a good coach away from a playoff type of run. They have the NFC East and AFC South as opponents along with the Raiders and Jets. I think a soft schedule is a big reason why the Bills made a run this year and that Cleveland can do that next year.
Maybe you're right, but two thoughts:
- Kitchens was the biggest problem in Cleveland, but far from the only problem. Baker was bad, and you can't pin that all on Kitchens (they same guy who was calling plays when Baker looked good last year). The OL is a mess, and the team doesn't have much draft capital to fix it. Who knows what happens with Garrett next. Or Landry or OBJ.
There are serious issues there beyond the head coach.
- the schedule may not be as easy as you think. The Ravens look set up for a long run and Pittsburgh will be much better with an actual NFL quarterback. The Jets and Raiders were better than the Browns this year, and the latter has a young roster and 5 picks in the top 100, so should improve.
Time will tell, I guess.
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WTH are the Cowboys doing with Garrett?
Is it possible they bring him back? What a cluster F. He should have been fired 5 years ago and even now Jones is hemming and hawing. Pull the band aid off quickly Jerra.
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As Fluffy mentioned with Cleveland, no normal head coach should want to be in Dallas. Egos are so big, and there's not enough room for both Jerry's and someone else's. Garrett is a rare coach that can fit in alongside Jerry - a good fit for all of his flaws.
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As Fluffy mentioned with Cleveland, no normal head coach should want to be in Dallas. Egos are so big, and there's not enough room for both Jerry's and someone else's. Garrett is a rare coach that can fit in alongside Jerry - a good fit for all of his flaws.
True. There is some draw to the Dallas job however. Its not comparable to Cleveland. They have crazy good facilities and stadium. The owner spends lots of money and is not afraid to spend on free agents. They have a huge fan base and are a premier brand. But then of course you have to put up with Jerry as the GM.
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As Fluffy mentioned with Cleveland, no normal head coach should want to be in Dallas. Egos are so big, and there's not enough room for both Jerry's and someone else's. Garrett is a rare coach that can fit in alongside Jerry - a good fit for all of his flaws.
Exactly. Above all else, Jerry needs a "yes man" to run the team. Jerry is the reason the Cowboys haven't even won a divisional playoff game since before many Scoopers were even born. The Cowboys are as consequential to good football as the New York Jets or the Chicago bears.
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Dan Snyder opened Rivera's introductory press conference today wishing everyone a Happy Thanksgiving.
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Dan Snyder opened Rivera's introductory press conference today wishing everyone a Happy Thanksgiving.
We get it, we get it, you're not changing the nickname
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Ratings up 2nd straight year....amazing what happens when you focus on football.
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Garrett reportedly fired, finally.
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Jerry Jones waits until we provoke a war to drop the Jason Garrett press release
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Who in the world will even take that Dallas job?
Betting sites have Urban Meyer at +300. I would wholeheartedly laugh if Mike McCarthy gets the job and am hoping that does happen (it won't).
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Jerry Jones waits until we provoke a war to drop the Jason Garrett press release
Say what you mean and mean what you say.
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Jerry Jones waits until we provoke a war to drop the Jason Garrett press release
I think you’re giving Jerry too much credit.
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Yeah I think Jones just likes the guy and was trying to find a role for him. My guess is that when he started hearing that Garrett was giving players exit interviews and those players were like "WTF?" that Stephen may have had to say "it's time."
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Any predictions for the weekend?
I'll go with Bills, Patriots, Saints, Seahawks.
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Any predictions for the weekend?
I'll go with Bills, Patriots, Saints, Seahawks.
I think Patriots go down, otherwise I agree but will be hoping for something else.
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Any predictions for the weekend?
I'll go with Bills, Patriots, Saints, Seahawks.
Houston will go up by 33 early in the 2nd half....lets see if the Bills can come back and win from that deficit !!!
(hint--see 1993- ouch)
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Houston will go up by 33 early in the 2nd half....lets see if the Bills can come back and win from that deficit !!!
(hint--see 1993- ouch)
Ha, I lived in Houston at that time. The city was deflated after that one (at least the oiler fans) and then the move to Tennessee shortly after. Oiler gear was pretty cheap after that game some of which still hangs in my man cave.
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I think Patriots go down, otherwise I agree but will be hoping for something else.
If this comes to pass it’s not what this Dolphins fan would have envisioned if you told me Ryan Tannehill would hand Tom Brady his last Patriots playoff defeat...
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These Bills are oddly fun to watch. Great defense, and the offense creatively leverages the strengths and weaknesses of Allen and this short, speedy receiving corps. Never thought I'd see Beasley or John Brown in any sort of leading role
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Poor Bills fans
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This game is drunk.
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This game is drunk.
This.
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It’s on a week longer bender
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If the Texans had lost, I think there was legitimate grounds to fire O'Brien. He is a thoroughly mediocre coach and he was awful most of this game.
In other news, super glad the Bears got Mitch and not Watson. Where is the whiskey?
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Could this have been the end of the Belichick/Brady Era?
Here's hoping!!!
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Could this have been the end of the Belichick/Brady Era?
Here's hoping!!!
The perfect encapsulation of the Pats and why people cant stand them was BB losing his mind and endlessly b***hing about Vrabel brilliantly utilizing the clock killing/delay of game penalties...that BB himself used a few weeks prior.
Also, for being a super hot name on the HC trail, McDaniels offense looked PUTRID. 13 points at home? Yikes. For all the talk of Brady not having weapons, he flat out missed a number of guys and did not look good at all.
Also, Derrick Henry was UNREAL. Man that dude made a leap this year, Brandon Jacobs size but with speed and agility. WOW
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The perfect encapsulation of the Pats and why people cant stand them was BB losing his mind and endlessly b***hing about Vrabel brilliantly utilizing the clock killing/delay of game penalties...that BB himself used a few weeks prior.
Also, for being a super hot name on the HC trail, McDaniels offense looked PUTRID. 13 points at home? Yikes. For all the talk of Brady not having weapons, he flat out missed a number of guys and did not look good at all.
Also, Derrick Henry was UNREAL. Man that dude made a leap this year, Brandon Jacobs size but with speed and agility. WOW
By doing that with the clock it shortend the game, but they were only up by one. That could cut both ways. What if Patriots use up 4 minutes on the next drive and score leaving Titans with little or no time. You never know how those things will turn out.
BB finally got what he deserved. Yes I enjoyed him melting down. I hope Brady retires, I hate it when the great ones go out in an embarrassing fashion.
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Packers cheering for the Vikings right? As difficult as that is for me to do, that would probably be an easier path.
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Packers cheering for the Vikings right? As difficult as that is for me to do, that would probably be an easier path.
I cant figure out who to cheer for. I think vikings but I think Seattle would have better chance to beat San Fran
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By doing that with the clock it shortend the game, but they were only up by one. That could cut both ways. What if Patriots use up 4 minutes on the next drive and score leaving Titans with little or no time. You never know how those things will turn out.
Yeah, I love seeing the Patriots lose...and even more seeing BB get pissed...but if the Patriots would have driven and scored a FG, Vrabel would have been second-guessed to death. But, it worked out great.
I'd like to think Vrabel would approve of my 'Scoop avatar.
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SKOL VIKINGS
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Brees has been terrible today.
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Brees has been terrible today.
He hasn’t had much time. Vikings are getting pressure without blitzing.
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He hasn’t had much time. Vikings are getting pressure without blitzing.
I stand by my quote.
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Saints should have used that timeout after the Vikings third down. Letting it run made the two minute warning useless and the Saints ate the timeout anyway.
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Not exactly high-quality football this weekend, but at least the games have been competitive (so far).
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Not exactly high-quality football this weekend, but at least the games have been competitive (so far).
Yeah a lot of botched opportunities to close games out this weekend.
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Packers gotta like where they sit now.
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I stand by my quote.
Yeah he had that one good drive. Wonder what they will do next year?
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Does that td get called back in the regular season?
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THE CONSENSUS!!
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Does that td get called back in the regular season?
No. There was nothing there
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I stand by my quote.
Hill is the one that made all the plays. Brees missed Alot of throws.
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Does that td get called back in the regular season?
No. But now we have to listen to Saints and Saints fans whine for another year
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Does that td get called back in the regular season?
It was a clear push. But unless it was called on the field, I doubt that it gets overturned during the regular season.
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Any predictions for the weekend?
I'll go with Bills, Patriots, Saints, Seahawks.
Hope you didn’t parlay that.
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Packers gotta like where they sit now.
Game hasta be played on the field, but on paper, Seattle or Philly is a more ideal matchup that NO.
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Game hasta be played on the field, but on paper, Seattle or Philly is a more ideal matchup that NO.
After barely surviving Detroit, I don’t think there is such thing as ideal matchup for them. Philly has already won in Lambeau this year. It will be a struggle no matter the opponent. Especially if Rodgers doesn’t come out of his funk
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Packers gotta like where they sit now.
3 seed gone. Next week is better but may make it more difficult if they get to nfc championship. Who knows.
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That was some serious clock mismanagement down the stretch by Sean Payton
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If Seattle wins, back to back cross country trips is less than ideal.
I also thought there was no way the Saints would lose today, so what the hell do I know. Anyone can beat anyone in this tournament in a one game showdown.
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After barely surviving Detroit, I don’t think there is such thing as ideal matchup for them. Philly has already won in Lambeau this year. It will be a struggle no matter the opponent. Especially if Rodgers doesn’t come out of his funk
'
It appears that you are saying that matchups don't matter. I would guess that every NFL expert would disagree with that premise.
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My apathy toward the length of the Packers playoff run goes out the window when the Seahawks come to town.
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My apathy toward the length of the Packers playoff run goes out the window when the Seahawks come to town.
That shot of Carroll celebrating made my blood boil. Hope we dominate him and Wilson. Though, that has not been an easy task for GB.
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Least favorite team in the NFL.
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Opting for McCown as your back up QB with a clearly better option out there.
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Eagles better with Wentz...
I think Pack make the super bowl.
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Opting for McCown as your back up QB with a clearly better option out there.
Exactly, Jay Cutler would have been way better
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That shot of Carroll celebrating made my blood boil. Hope we dominate him and Wilson. Though, that has not been an easy task for GB.
The ass clown was jumping up and down like he won the super bowl when he won a reception challenge
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Does that td get called back in the regular season?
out of all the replays/reviews, i don't have the stats in front of me, but pass interference, regardless of how obvious it has been has RARELY been reversed, over-turned or called based on the video evidence
right arm extended with a push to create space? hmmm...who has the balls to make the reversal?
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That is the weakness of allowing PI calls to be reviewed. By the book, it was cearly PI. But that's rarely called so I get why no flag was thrown.
So what exactly should be reviewed?
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Hope you didn’t parlay that.
Haha nope. 1 for 4. Not bad huh?
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That is the weakness of allowing PI calls to be reviewed. By the book, it was cearly PI. But that's rarely called so I get why no flag was thrown.
So what exactly should be reviewed?
I’m not a conspiracy theorist, but the Saints complaints and protestations that lead to the rule change made refs and the NFL “look bad”. So I don’t think there was any chance they review that. The refs have shown themselves to be pretty petty about it this year, given how few calls get changed even when pretty clearly wrong.
If you “review” every scoring play, the DB clearly jerks backwards with the push, no clue how that’s not further examined.
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That is the weakness of allowing PI calls to be reviewed. By the book, it was cearly PI. But that's rarely called so I get why no flag was thrown.
So what exactly should be reviewed?
that's the thing-first of all, all touchdowns are reviewed. then it became a "nothing to see here"? it could be argued both ways however. and it was. in the end, the fat lady has sung
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I’m not a conspiracy theorist, but the Saints complaints and protestations that lead to the rule change made refs and the NFL “look bad”. So I don’t think there was any chance they review that. The refs have shown themselves to be pretty petty about it this year, given how few calls get changed even when pretty clearly wrong.
If you “review” every scoring play, the DB clearly jerks backwards with the push, no clue how that’s not further examined.
The NFL said it was reviewed.
https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/28429620/officials-not-enough-contact-flag-vikings
"There is contact by both players, but none of that contact rises to the level of a foul," said the NFL's senior vice president of officiating, Al Riveron, who briefly reviewed the play from the league's command center in New York. "This is consistent with what we've done all year long -- we left the ruling on the field. We let it stand."
The replay review process was completed so quickly that some Saints players didn't realize it had been reviewed.
When asked by a designated pool reporter if the decision was "obviously clear enough" for the replay process to be completed so quickly, Riveron said, "Yes, Fox was great. They gave us every angle that they had pertaining to the play. So we're very comfortable with what we saw. Nothing came through afterward that we had not seen prior to making the ruling."
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I've said it before - the PI rule is already subjective, and now the NFL has over-legislated it by adding more subjectivity in the review process (or whether to initiate a review, if inside 2 mins). They have such a terrible habit of legislating to prevent this one, specific outcome with disregard for any nuanced impact elsewhere.
Let's take the NFL at its word (LOL!) that this was reviewed. I don't think you objectively look at that and say that it wasn't OPI when the defender not only stops, but jerks backwards. But the call on the field was TD, and this wasn't 'egregious' enough? You either eliminate this bogus secondary standard, or go back to the naked eye test (the correct call, imo). The former would result in a TON of overturns, which the league surely doesn't want.
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I've said it before - the PI rule is already subjective, and now the NFL has over-legislated it by adding more subjectivity in the review process (or whether to initiate a review, if inside 2 mins). They have such a terrible habit of legislating to prevent this one, specific outcome with disregard for any nuanced impact elsewhere.
Let's take the NFL at its word (LOL!) that this was reviewed. I don't think you objectively look at that and say that it wasn't OPI when the defender not only stops, but jerks backwards. But the call on the field was TD, and this wasn't 'egregious' enough? You either eliminate this bogus secondary standard, or go back to the naked eye test (the correct call, imo). The former would result in a TON of overturns, which the league surely doesn't want.
It's a bad rule. The NFL either has to enforce it all the time -- which nobody wants -- or has to deep-six the rule entirely. Having a rule in place just to be able to overturn a repeat of what happened at the end of last year's playoff game -- something that happened only once in NFL history -- is silly.
And I think most of those who vote on these things know it. This rule was on a one-year leash, so we'll see what happens.
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OPI....clear as a bell. Announcers knew it, Terry McCauly, Mike, etc...but no one has stones to overturn it.
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No. There was nothing there
But he definitely pushed off. Lol.
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Cowboys hiring McCarthy
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Good for McCarthy. I didn't think personalities would fit (tbf, who else gets along with Jerry Jones other than Jason Garrett?), but he has all the talent in town to make it work if they retain Dak and Amari.
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Cowboys fans better hope Big Mac's offense has evolved since 2010. As of the 2018 season, it hadn't. And if it still hasn't, I hope they enjoy watching Randall Cobb try to win one on one against his defender.
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I've got nothing against Mac but watching Big D continue to fail will be a great joy.
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Good for McCarthy. I didn't think personalities would fit (tbf, who else gets along with Jerry Jones other than Jason Garrett?), but he has all the talent in town to make it work if they retain Dak and Amari.
I think that’s a good hire for both parties.
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Good for McCarthy. I didn't think personalities would fit (tbf, who else gets along with Jerry Jones other than Jason Garrett?), but he has all the talent in town to make it work if they retain Dak and Amari.
GB, I think their talent, especially on offense, is way overrated. Amari is only so-so as a #1 receiver and they have little behind him. If Cobb is the #2, the team is in big trouble. Not much at tight end. They do have a couple really good pieces on the offensive line and, of, course, they have Elliot (even tho' he wasn't as impressive this year). Dak is above average - in the 10-15 range - but not a top tier guy.
We also have a long history of what Special Teams look like under McCarthy. They were always among the worst in the league when he was in GB.
All that being said, however, I think it was as good of a hire as Dallas could get.
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GB, I think their talent, especially on offense, is way overrated. Amari is only so-so as a #1 receiver and they have little behind him. If Cobb is the #2, the team is in big trouble.
Michael Gallup is their #2 receiver. Might even be their number one by next year.
Look, I'm not saying he's going to win them a Super Bowl, but I think McCarthy gets a couple wins out of the Cowboys that Garrett couldn't get. That's good enough to win the East.
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Exactly, Jay Cutler would have been way better
(https://media.giphy.com/media/3NtY188QaxDdC/giphy.gif)
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Michael Gallup is their #2 receiver. Might even be their number one by next year.
Look, I'm not saying he's going to win them a Super Bowl, but I think McCarthy gets a couple wins out of the Cowboys that Garrett couldn't get. That's good enough to win the East.
Completely agree that McCarthy can get them an extra win or two.
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A Jerry Jones sleepover must be a heck of a time.
Just don't leave your shoes lying around.
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GB, I think their talent, especially on offense, is way overrated. Amari is only so-so as a #1 receiver and they have little behind him. If Cobb is the #2, the team is in big trouble. Not much at tight end. They do have a couple really good pieces on the offensive line and, of, course, they have Elliot (even tho' he wasn't as impressive this year). Dak is above average - in the 10-15 range - but not a top tier guy.
We also have a long history of what Special Teams look like under McCarthy. They were always among the worst in the league when he was in GB.
All that being said, however, I think it was as good of a hire as Dallas could get.
By all indications, Amari was a top 10 receiver in all of football this year. Things ended on a bit of a sour note, but for the last year and a half, he was every bit of the player Oakland thought they drafted.
I think it's a good get for Jones. Whether it works is contingent on what MM learned in his year off. Does his offense come back fresh ala Andy Reid, or is it old-school with predictable concepts? Rooting for him in all games except against the Packers.
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By all indications, Amari was a top 10 receiver in all of football this year. Things ended on a bit of a sour note, but for the last year and a half, he was every bit of the player Oakland thought they drafted.
I think it's a good get for Jones. Whether it works is contingent on what MM learned in his year off. Does his offense come back fresh ala Andy Reid, or is it old-school with predictable concepts? Rooting for him in all games except against the Packers.
Amari is a stud ... when he wants to be. He has what can best be described as focus issues. He'll put up a monster performance one week then disappear the next.
Of his 1,189 yards this season, 585 of them (aka half) came in four games.
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Cowboys fans better hope Big Mac's offense has evolved since 2010. As of the 2018 season, it hadn't. And if it still hasn't, I hope they enjoy watching Randall Cobb try to win one on one against his defender.
Years ago here I said I would take McCarthy over the clapping ginger in a heartbeat....this is when Packer fans were generally thinking they had right to go to the Super Bowl each year. He's a huge upgrade over Ginger, whether he is the guy that can get it done.....I will say no because the ultimate problem is still the GM. They still believe in going after elite players, overpay them and have no depth. They rarely cut bait. I love Jason Witten...he has no business playing tight end any longer in the NFL, but Jerrah cannot say no. Paying Zeke what they did...a travesty. Sure, he "earned" it, but you have saddled your team elsewhere. Depth has been a problem for Dallas for years.
McCarthy will at least be someone that holds players accountable, something the clapper never did. Step in the right direction, but as long as Jerrah is there as the GM, I don't see it changing.
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Tua to NFL.
Absolute no-brainer.
Too bad for him he couldn't have gone pro after last season.
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Tua to NFL.
Absolute no-brainer.
Too bad for him he couldn't have gone pro after last season.
The question is...... where does he get drafted with his injury history? I like his talent, but I don't think he's durable enough.
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The question is...... where does he get drafted with his injury history? I like his talent, but I don't think he's durable enough.
Kiper thinks he'll still go high. I have no idea - not a draftnik.
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Tua to NFL.
Absolute no-brainer.
Too bad for him he couldn't have gone pro after last season.
How do you know he didn’t want the college experience like the Oregon QB who could have last year, but didn’t. Sometimes, kids actually want to go to college.
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Coach and QB combos with rings....lots of great QBs that didn’t get a lot of hardware of late
McCarthy and Rodgers: 1 ring
Payton and Brees: 1 ring
Carroll and Wilson: 1 ring
Dungy and Manning: 1 ring
-–———————————————————-
Bellichick and Brady: 6 rings
Tomlin and Roethlisburger: 2 rings
Coughlin and Manning: 2 rings
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Hopefully, McCarthy doesn’t have his QB quit on him in Dallas, too
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I don't know the numbers and have not seen this reported but has LeFleur's team been significantly healthier than McCarthy's GB teams? Every season McCarthy's teams seemed to have devastating injury bugs yet to me this year's team seems to not have lost so many players due to injury. Is 13-3 a reflection of more players being available on gamedays?
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I don't know the numbers and have not seen this reported but has LeFleur's team been significantly healthier than McCarthy's GB teams? Every season McCarthy's teams seemed to have devastating injury bugs yet to me this year's team seems to not have lost so many players due to injury. Is 13-3 a reflection of more players being available on gamedays?
Some of that. Some of the Packers not taking timeouts after a first down run that goes for 4 yards to the 39 yard line under two minutes left in the first half while the opponent seems somewhat content to go to the locker room where they're at, only to then see the opponent march down the field for (at least) a field goal. A TON of letting one of the Packers' two offensive playmakers actually touch the ball more than 12 times a game. And a serviceable defense.
I mean, Rodgers has been about as bad as he's ever been this year and has the worst receiving group he's ever had before, yet the Packers went 13-3.
When you don't give your opponent extra time outs to close out a half, resulting in points that they were content not having, the close losses oddly have a way of turning into close wins.
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I think the Packers' improvement this year is entirely due to the defense. They ranked ninth this year after the past three ranking somewhere in the 20s. I think a lot of this has to do with improved personnel (the Smiths and Amos), but also has to do with Pettine being better than Capers.
McCarthy was way too loyal to his assistants, and Thompson was way too stingy with the checkbook when his drafting strategy wasn't working.
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Looks like Matt Rhule will be in Carolina.
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I think the Packers' improvement this year is entirely due to the defense. They ranked ninth this year after the past three ranking somewhere in the 20s. I think a lot of this has to do with improved personnel (the Smiths and Amos), but also has to do with Pettine being better than Capers.
McCarthy was way too loyal to his assistants, and Thompson was way too stingy with the checkbook when his drafting strategy wasn't working.
Well not entirely due to the defense. Using Aaron Jones as a weapon and feature back had a lot to do with it as well. McCarthy refused to give Jones more than a handful of touches per game. Also give credit to LeFleur, the players are buying what he is selling.
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Well not entirely due to the defense. Using Aaron Jones as a weapon and feature back had a lot to do with it as well. McCarthy refused to give Jones more than a handful of touches per game. Also give credit to LeFleur, the players are buying what he is selling.
Very favorable schedule doesn’t hurt either
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Looks like Matt Rhule will be in Carolina.
Yep. donedeal.
https://www.charlotteobserver.com/sports/nfl/carolina-panthers/article239015758.html?
I like the idea of hiring a young coach. I am a little leery of a college guy, though he did spend one season as an NFL assistant. Certainly pulled off a quick rebuild in Baylor.
I hope he hires a proven successful defensive coordinator. Could do a lot worse than Wade Phillips.
I was a Rivera fan (though I reluctantly admit both sides probably needed a change), and time will tell if this guy does any better. But I go in open-minded and optimistic.
It will be very interesting to hear his take on Newton and the whole QB situation.
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Well not entirely due to the defense. Using Aaron Jones as a weapon and feature back had a lot to do with it as well. McCarthy refused to give Jones more than a handful of touches per game. Also give credit to LeFleur, the players are buying what he is selling.
Aaron Jones averaged 13.3 touches (rushing attempts plus receptions) per game last year. This year it most definitely increased to 17.8. But let's not act like McCarthy ignored Jones. He just used Jamal Williams more than LaFluer does.
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Very favorable schedule doesn’t hurt either
This is true. I kinda think they could be in for a not-quite-Bears-like like disappointment next year since the schedule is going to be tougher.
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I think the Packers' improvement this year is entirely due to the defense. They ranked ninth this year after the past three ranking somewhere in the 20s. I think a lot of this has to do with improved personnel (the Smiths and Amos), but also has to do with Pettine being better than Capers.
McCarthy was way too loyal to his assistants, and Thompson was way too stingy with the checkbook when his drafting strategy wasn't working.
One only has to look at the easy schedule that Green Bay played this year. Staffordless Lions, Regressing Bears, Not having to face Mahomes on the road, etc. Not to mention a pretty healthy year. Packers had a lucky horseshoe in their back pocket. Of course, they were due for that since dealing with Rodgers' injuries. Next year's schedule is a gauntlet and they'll be lucky to get a playoff spot.
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I don't know the numbers and have not seen this reported but has LeFleur's team been significantly healthier than McCarthy's GB teams? Every season McCarthy's teams seemed to have devastating injury bugs yet to me this year's team seems to not have lost so many players due to injury. Is 13-3 a reflection of more players being available on gamedays?
Ironically, this just came out. Very healthy year.
https://www.espn.com/blog/green-bay-packers/post/_/id/48422/packers-from-injury-prone-to-injury-free-with-more-than-a-knock-on-wood
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Weird that Eric Bieniemy can’t get a head job.
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Weird that Eric Bieniemy can’t get a head job.
I'm sure its in no way related to the fact that he's an OC in an offense that doesn't call the plays under Reid, and the last guy to do that was Matt Nagy.
In related news, Matt Rhule got PAID.
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Weird that Eric Bieniemy can’t get a head job.
Is it, though?
He's only been a coordinator for two years, and Reid calls the plays in KC.
He may be a great coach - I don't know - but it's not surprising given his resume that he's hasn't landed a head coaching gig yet. I think he'll get his chance eventually (maybe even this year, with the Giants seemingly interested and running out of options), but it's not that weird if he isn't.
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Is it, though?
He's only been a coordinator for two years, and Reid calls the plays in KC.
He may be a great coach - I don't know - but it's not surprising given his resume that he's hasn't landed a head coaching gig yet. I think he'll get his chance eventually (maybe even this year, with the Giants seemingly interested and running out of options), but it's not that weird if he isn't.
Previous two coordinators were Doug Pederson and Matt Nagy. Bieniemy has more experience as a coach than those two did before they got hired.
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Previous two coordinators were Doug Pederson and Matt Nagy. Bieniemy has more experience as a coach than those two did before they got hired.
Pederson was a coordinator for three seasons to Bienemy's two and called plays.
Nagy had the same years as coordinator, but called plays.
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And just like that, the Giants gig is no longer open.
They're hiring Patriots WR coach Joe Judge, per Schefter.
Another Patriots assistant. Teams just can't help themselves, despite the track record (though Flores showed some promise this year).
Judge reportedly is interviewing Jason Garrett to be his OC.
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One only has to look at the easy schedule that Green Bay played this year. Staffordless Lions, Regressing Bears, Not having to face Mahomes on the road, etc. Not to mention a pretty healthy year. Packers had a lucky horseshoe in their back pocket. Of course, they were due for that since dealing with Rodgers' injuries. Next year's schedule is a gauntlet and they'll be lucky to get a playoff spot.
Man, you are a barrel of sunshine on all topics, huh?
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I will say, I think the Rooney Rule has, predictably, been a total failure. If the goal is to increase representation of minorities within the coaching ranks, especially HC it simply hasn't delivered.
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Man, you are a barrel of sunshine on all topics, huh?
Well, it's true. Let's be honest, this is one of the worst 13-3 teams ever in the playoffs. This team rarely played 4 quarters of football the whole season. That being said, if they can play all 4 quarters then they should make it to the NFC championship. Can they beat the 49ers? So far I'd say no, but who knows. Maybe the Vikings will surprise us again. As long as Packers can get to the QB, they have a chance.
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I will say, I think the Rooney Rule has, predictably, been a total failure. If the goal is to increase representation of minorities within the coaching ranks, especially HC it simply hasn't delivered.
It’s been a failure for the most part. That’s why I bring up Bieniemy. The idea he can’t be a head coach because he isn’t calling plays is absurd, imo. Matt Lafeur’s offense in Tennessee wasn’t anything to write home about and he’s been fine as a head coach.
Look at Joe Judge’s resume. Andy Reid assistants versus Belichick assistants. We don’t sit through interviews and maybe Bieniemy is a terrible interview but the optics look terrible
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Weird that Eric Bieniemy can’t get a head job.
I really can't pinpoint any single reason why not ::)
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Pederson was a coordinator for three seasons to Bienemy's two and called plays.
Nagy had the same years as coordinator, but called plays.
For how many games? Very few.
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I will say, I think the Rooney Rule has, predictably, been a total failure. If the goal is to increase representation of minorities within the coaching ranks, especially HC it simply hasn't delivered.
I think it has failed mainly for two reasons.
1. Lack of minority ownership.
2. Lack of minority GMs.
As Frank Robinson said when asked about the lack of black managers, "General managers prefer to hire people they feel comfortable having breakfast with."
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I will say, I think the Rooney Rule has, predictably, been a total failure. If the goal is to increase representation of minorities within the coaching ranks, especially HC it simply hasn't delivered.
I don't think it has been perfect because I don't know how you make such a thing perfect, mu03, but it hasn't been a "total failure."
Before the rule, minority candidates were very few and far between. They weren't even being interviewed. They were totally ignored -- in other words, minorities weren't even candidates for NFL head-coaching jobs. They were having trouble landing coordinator gigs.
The interview process helps them gain exposure. They might have to go through it twice or three times as often as a white candidate does to get a serious offer -- which sucks -- but at least their names are getting out there. They are gaining experience being interviewed so they can become better interviewees next time. They are landing a lot of coordinator gigs.
And even though progress has been slow, look at how many black and/or Latino coaches there have been the last few years compared to 20 years ago and more. I think there were 8 in the 2018 season -- that's a quarter of the league. There was nothing even remotely close to that in 1998.
It is disappointing that after those 8 HC of a couple years ago, there were only half as many this season, and there might be fewer next year.
I'm not sure what else can be done because obviously you don't want to mandate that teams hire certain coaches just because of their race.
So as imperfect as it is, I think it has helped with slow, incremental change over time.
As for whether or not a head coach has play-calling experience, young play-callers are the flavor of the month and the NFL is famously a league of imitators. But personally, I don't think that's a great reason to hire a guy.
If I'm an owner, I want a head coach who is very knowledgeable about every facet of NFL play -- a guy who is, first and foremost, an organizer, ego-manager, deligator and overseer. I want him to hire a great, play-calling offensive coordinator. (And obviously, if my head coach comes from the defensive side, he will be hiring a play-calling offensive coordinator.)
Bill Belicheck doesn't call offensive plays; he's done OK for himself, no? Pete Carroll and John Harbaugh don't call plays. Mike Tomlin doesn't call plays. Most head coaches who have come from defensive backgrounds don't even call defensive signals, let alone offensive plays. I respect Andy Reid a ton ... but how many Super Bowls has he won again? How many has he even been in?
So I hope that's not the reason Bienemy can't get a head-coaching gig, though it certainly might be given the flavor-of-the-month thing.
Of course, I hope his race is not the reason, either.
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I don't think it has been perfect because I don't know how you make such a thing perfect, mu03, but it hasn't been a "total failure."
Before the rule, minority candidates were very few and far between. They weren't even being interviewed. They were totally ignored -- in other words, minorities weren't even candidates for NFL head-coaching jobs. They were having trouble landing coordinator gigs.
The interview process helps them gain exposure. They might have to go through it twice or three times as often as a white candidate does to get a serious offer -- which sucks -- but at least their names are getting out there. They are gaining experience being interviewed so they can become better interviewees next time. They are landing a lot of coordinator gigs.
And even though progress has been slow, look at how many black and/or Latino coaches there have been the last few years compared to 20 years ago and more. I think there were 8 in the 2018 season -- that's a quarter of the league. There was nothing even remotely close to that in 1998.
It is disappointing that after those 8 HC of a couple years ago, there were only half as many this season, and there might be fewer next year.
I'm not sure what else can be done because obviously you don't want to mandate that teams hire certain coaches just because of their race.
So as imperfect as it is, I think it has helped with slow, incremental change over time.
As for whether or not a head coach has play-calling experience, young play-callers are the flavor of the month and the NFL is famously a league of imitators. But personally, I don't think that's a great reason to hire a guy.
If I'm an owner, I want a head coach who is very knowledgeable about every facet of NFL play -- a guy who is, first and foremost, an organizer, ego-manager, deligator and overseer. I want him to hire a great, play-calling offensive coordinator. (And obviously, if my head coach comes from the defensive side, he will be hiring a play-calling offensive coordinator.)
Bill Belicheck doesn't call offensive plays; he's done OK for himself, no? Pete Carroll and John Harbaugh don't call plays. Mike Tomlin doesn't call plays. Most head coaches who have come from defensive backgrounds don't even call defensive signals, let alone offensive plays. I respect Andy Reid a ton ... but how many Super Bowls has he won again? How many has he even been in?
So I hope that's not the reason Bienemy can't get a head-coaching gig, though it certainly might be given the flavor-of-the-month thing.
Of course, I hope his race is not the reason, either.
Guess it depends how one views the mission of the Rooney Rule. If it's simply to get minority candidates interviews and exposure, then it's been a success. It it's goal is to diversify the ranks of upper-echelon NFL coaching gigs (i.e. head coaches and coordinators), it's been a bust.
I may be mistaken, but Mike Tomlin is the only coach I'm aware of who landed a HC gig thanks to the rule. Steelers were all set to hire Russ Grimm until Tomlin reportedly won them over in his interviews.
As for Belichick and Carroll not calling offensive plays ... huh? Not sure why that's relevant.
But if they had come up as defensive coordinators who didn't actually handle defensive playcalling during games, that would be seen as a knock against them, right?
The issue isn't whether calling offensive plays is a requisite, it's whether being a coordinator who doesn't call plays is viewed as a negative during head coaching searches. I think it is.
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Guess it depends how one views the mission of the Rooney Rule. If it's simply to get minority candidates interviews and exposure, then it's been a success. It it's goal is to diversify the ranks of upper-echelon NFL coaching gigs (i.e. head coaches and coordinators), it's been a bust.
I may be mistaken, but Mike Tomlin is the only coach I'm aware of who landed a HC gig thanks to the rule. Steelers were all set to hire Russ Grimm until Tomlin reportedly won them over in his interviews.
As for Belichick and Carroll not calling offensive plays ... huh? Not sure why that's relevant.
But if they had come up as defensive coordinators who didn't actually handle defensive playcalling during games, that would be seen as a knock against them, right?
The issue isn't whether calling offensive plays is a requisite, it's whether being a coordinator who doesn't call plays is viewed as a negative during head coaching searches. I think it is.
I guess play calling matters since Pat Shurmur has been hired twice
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Guess it depends how one views the mission of the Rooney Rule. If it's simply to get minority candidates interviews and exposure, then it's been a success. It it's goal is to diversify the ranks of upper-echelon NFL coaching gigs (i.e. head coaches and coordinators), it's been a bust.
I may be mistaken, but Mike Tomlin is the only coach I'm aware of who landed a HC gig thanks to the rule. Steelers were all set to hire Russ Grimm until Tomlin reportedly won them over in his interviews.
As for Belichick and Carroll not calling offensive plays ... huh? Not sure why that's relevant.
But if they had come up as defensive coordinators who didn't actually handle defensive playcalling during games, that would be seen as a knock against them, right?
The issue isn't whether calling offensive plays is a requisite, it's whether being a coordinator who doesn't call plays is viewed as a negative during head coaching searches. I think it is.
Well, with Tomlin, that's one more than without the rule.
As for play-calling ... I understand what you're saying, and you very well could be right about that being why non-play-callers don't get gigs. It's certainly gives execs/owners an easy excuse to not hire Bienemy and others like him.
All I'm saying is that, IMHO, I don't think that's a good reason to not hire somebody. Bill Belichick might have had lots of experience calling defensive plays, but he had none calling offensive plays and he hired defensive coordinators in NE to do that for him. He is the overseer of it all -- that is a head coach's primary role.
Rivera reacted to the Panthers' poor finish in 2018 by taking over the defensive play-calling role this season. We had one of the worst defenses in the league. Meanwhile, he wasn't able to give enough attention to other parts of his job, and the Panthers sucked even worse this season. Causation? Coincidence? I don't know, but it certainly didn't help having a play-caller at the helm.
But absolutely, Pak, you might be right about that being a reason guys can't get hired as HC.
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I guess play calling matters since Pat Shurmur has been hired twice
It does matter. You're free to argue that it shouldn't matter, but it does.
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It does matter. You're free to argue that it shouldn't matter, but it does.
I should have been more clear, being a play caller shouldn’t matter. Pat Shurmur was a play caller and was a terrible coach.
Matt Nagy called plays for 5 games, Freddie Kitchens for 8 games. Zac Taylor called plays for one month. Joe Judge has never called plays.
Byron Leftwich has more experience calling plays than all of the guys listed above.
Eric Bieniemy not calling plays is a convenient excuse. If we admit play calling matters, let’s at least assume skin color is still an issue in 2020. Let’s not kid ourselves, if Bieniemy were white, he’d be hired by now
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Eric Bieniemy not calling plays is a convenient excuse. If we admit play calling matters, let’s at least assume skin color is still an issue in 2020. Let’s not kid ourselves, if Bieniemy were white, he’d be hired by now
He would be? I have no idea if he is a good interviewer or not. If he projected a strong vision for the team that corresponded with the higher ups. Saying minority hiring in the coaching ranks is a problem is an accurate statement. Saying that Bienemy would be a head coach if he were white is not necessarily one.
Regarding Joe Judge, I will withold any judgement on the hire until I see how he performs. Andy Reid spent one year as the Packers QB coach when he was hired as head coach of the Eagles. Prior to that he spent one year as a TE coach. Before that he was an "offensive assistant." And he turned out great.
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He would be? I have no idea if he is a good interviewer or not. If he projected a strong vision for the team that corresponded with the higher ups. Saying minority hiring in the coaching ranks is a problem is an accurate statement. Saying that Bienemy would be a head coach if he were white is not necessarily one.
Regarding Joe Judge, I will withold any judgement on the hire until I see how he performs. Andy Reid spent one year as the Packers QB coach when he was hired as head coach of the Eagles. Prior to that he spent one year as a TE coach. Before that he was an "offensive assistant." And he turned out great.
Honest question, do you think if Joe Judge were African-American and has the same resume, he gets hired?
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Honest question, do you think if Joe Judge were African-American and has the same resume, he gets hired?
I have no idea. Saying minority hiring in the macro sense is a problem is one thing, claiming someone specifically would or wouldn't get a job is another.
I mean, Brian Flores got a head gig as a position coach just last year.
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Eric Bieniemy not calling plays is a convenient excuse. If we admit play calling matters, let’s at least assume skin color is still an issue in 2020. Let’s not kid ourselves, if Bieniemy were white, he’d be hired by now
You might be right. I have no idea. My point has nothing to do with Bieniemy or any particular coach ... just that playcalling duties is a box most owners and GMs want to see checked before hiring a guy as head coach. Not for nothing, either. It shows an ability to make smart (or dumb) decisions in the heat of a game. And it's a bit of a CYA, as well.
Is this where I list all the good coaches who were playcallers?
Kyle Shanahan, Sean McDermott, Sean McVay, Sean Payton, Frank Reich, Mike Zimmer, Bill Belichick, Bruce Arians, Doug Pederson ...
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Honest question, do you think if Joe Judge were African-American and has the same resume, he gets hired?
I would think so. The main thing I've read about him is that he doesn't take any B.S. and the players respect him. If you can find a similar review of a black assistant then you begin to have an argument.
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I would think so. The main thing I've read about him is that he doesn't take any B.S. and the players respect him. If you can find a similar review of a black assistant then you begin to have an argument.
Holy sh*t on the bolded. Do you really believe those chiches? They say that crap about any coach.
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You might be right. I have no idea. My point has nothing to do with Bieniemy or any particular coach ... just that playcalling duties is a box most owners and GMs want to see checked before hiring a guy as head coach. Not for nothing, either. It shows an ability to make smart (or dumb) decisions in the heat of a game. And it's a bit of a CYA, as well.
Is this where I list all the good coaches who were playcallers?
Kyle Shanahan, Sean McDermott, Sean McVay, Sean Payton, Frank Reich, Mike Zimmer, Bill Belichick, Bruce Arians, Doug Pederson ...
Frank Reich didn’t call plays under Doug Pederson, he did before that for two years, the same amount of years Eric Bieniemy called plays at Colorado. Yes, the two are different but Kliff Kingsbury never called plays in the NFL. Pederson called plays for parts of 11 games his last year in KC.
Many of the guys you listed failed as play callers in different places.
Players and coaches swear by Bieniemy in KC. Andy Reid’s assistants do pretty good work.
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Frank Reich didn’t call plays under Doug Pederson, he did before that for two years, the same amount of years Eric Bieniemy called plays at Colorado. Yes, the two are different but Kliff Kingsbury never called plays in the NFL. Pederson called plays for parts of 11 games his last year in KC.
Many of the guys you listed failed as play callers in different places.
Players and coaches swear by Bieniemy in KC. Andy Reid’s assistants do pretty good work.
With Bienemy calling plays, Colorado finished 109th and 120th in the nation in total offense. So, I'm not really sure you want to go there to make the case for him.
But again, I'm not sure I get your point here. Does every former playcaller become a great NFL coach? Obviously not. That doesn't make playcalling experience irrelevant. It's not a requisite, but it's silly to argue there's no logic behind wanting that experience before hiring a guy as a head coach. Fact is, of the 14 coaches who've won a Super Bowl since 2000, 12 have playcalling experience.
Rico: Andy Reid's assistants do pretty good work.
Also Rico: Pat Shurmur sucks.
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With Bienemy calling plays, Colorado finished 109th and 120th in the nation in total offense. So, I'm not really sure you want to go there to make the case for him.
But again, I'm not sure I get your point here. Does every former playcaller become a great NFL coach? Obviously not. That doesn't make playcalling experience irrelevant. It's not a requisite, but it's silly to argue there's no logic behind wanting that experience before hiring a guy as a head coach. Fact is, of the 14 coaches who've won a Super Bowl since 2000, 12 have playcalling experience.
Rico: Andy Reid's assistants do pretty good work.
Also Rico: Pat Shurmur sucks.
Mike McCarthy ran the NFL’s worst offense and got hired as a head coach the next year. Kliff Kingsbury was 35-40 in college as a coach. Eric Bieniemy having two bad offenses isn’t a disqualifier.
My point with the Andy Reid coaching tree is this, it’s been more successful than Bill Belichick’s, yet Joe Judge who hasn’t run an offense or defense gets a job.
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Rico: Andy Reid's assistants do pretty good work.
Also Rico: Pat Shurmur sucks.
Harbaugh, Rivera, Pederson, Sean McDermott, Childress was good before he imploded, Nagy 1 great 1 awful.
Interestingly enough, with the exception of Shurmur, the offensive guys under Reid that became HCs have all fared pretty well. Honestly, not talking Cleveland, but I think Shurmur got a raw deal in NY. He didn't have a roster worthy of winning even 7-8 games. A stellar workhorse RB (which has not predicted success as of late), an aging QB and raw QB, and not much else. 0 Pro Bowlers. Even the Redskins had multiple and the Bengals had one.
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Holy sh*t on the bolded. Do you really believe those chiches? They say that crap about any coach.
Hey, did you see how he held Tyreek Hill accountable?!?
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Harbaugh, Rivera, Pederson, Sean McDermott, Childress was good before he imploded, Nagy 1 great 1 awful.
Interestingly enough, with the exception of Shurmur, the offensive guys under Reid that became HCs have all fared pretty well. Honestly, not talking Cleveland, but I think Shurmur got a raw deal in NY. He didn't have a roster worthy of winning even 7-8 games. A stellar workhorse RB (which has not predicted success as of late), an aging QB and raw QB, and not much else. 0 Pro Bowlers. Even the Redskins had multiple and the Bengals had one.
I'd disagree on Nagy, 1 ok, 1 awful. There was a lot of "wtf?" games from Nagy in 2018 (first Packer game, Dolphins game, Giants game, Eagles playoff game).
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I'd disagree on Nagy, 1 ok, 1 awful. There was a lot of "wtf?" games from Nagy in 2018 (first Packer game, Dolphins game, Giants game, Eagles playoff game).
Lot of luck in 2018 - most of it defensively. Number of takeaways was really an outlier in 2018 - especially interceptions. Defense was responsible for an awful lot of points.
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Lot of luck in 2018 - most of it defensively. Number of takeaways was really an outlier in 2018 - especially interceptions. Defense was responsible for an awful lot of points.
Takeaways absolutely an outlier.
But the defense was lucky? #1 in avg yards per play. #1 in points allowed. #3 in yards per game.
Those aren't "lucky" stats.
Playing an easy schedule was a big chunk. But the defense was good last year.
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Takeaways absolutely an outlier.
But the defense was lucky? #1 in avg yards per play. #1 in points allowed. #3 in yards per game.
Those aren't "lucky" stats.
Playing an easy schedule was a big chunk. But the defense was good last year.
I think my post was pretty clear. The "luck" was the number of takeaways - not the basic defensive play.
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(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EN2T2tLWkAMrZqs?format=jpg&name=large)
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Wow, Mike really took to living in Wisconsin
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Wow, Mike really took to living in Wisconsin
Guess investing in a regulation basketball court at his house didn't have the ROI he expected
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Guess investing in a regulation basketball court at his house didn't have the ROI he expected
Well..... when you fill with a massage bed and a buffet, the results become skewed.
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https://mobile.twitter.com/247KevinBoilard/status/1201742228797964288?s=09
I hope Marquette basketball can play with the same unwavering language (wtf?) as this QB from “a whole pack of Badgers.”
Phony.
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Mike looks like he got some hair plugs too.
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Mike looks like he got some hair plugs too.
His brother died of a heart attack at age 47. Mike needs to get in shape (so do I)...he is carrying way too much weight and just walked into a pressure cooker of a job with national press coverage like he has never experienced before.
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His brother died of a heart attack at age 47. Mike needs to get in shape (so do I)...he is carrying way too much weight and just walked into a pressure cooker of a job with national press coverage like he has never experienced before.
(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/Nf6srzpIaw6tatuPue.JOw--~A/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9ODAw/http://media.zenfs.com/en_us/Sports/ap/201807251027376265974)
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His brother died of a heart attack at age 47. Mike needs to get in shape (so do I)...he is carrying way too much weight and just walked into a pressure cooker of a job with national press coverage like he has never experienced before.
Definately gotta goe grain-free, aina?
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Any picks for this weekend? I'm going with the home teams in all 4 although I think Houston or Seattle would be the most likely upsets to happen.
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Rodgers is 0-5 all time in the playoffs against the NFC West. He will likely have to go 2-0 against them this year to reach the Super Bowl.
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Rodgers is 0-5 all time in the playoffs against the NFC West. He will likely have to go 2-0 against them this year to reach the Super Bowl.
useless stat
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I didn't research this at all, just my thought of Divisional Round history, there will be one upset, one blowout, one OT game, and one 3 point game.
I'm sure I'm wrong about the above. If I was going to go by my inclination, I'd go:
Ravens blowout Titans
Texans beat Chiefs
Vikings/Niners OT
Seahawks/Packers 3 point game (lean is Pack to win)
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Guess investing in a regulation basketball court at his house didn't have the ROI he expected
he bought Buzz's mansion with the basketball court and cement pond?
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he bought Buzz's mansion with the basketball court and cement pond?
He needed the safe room.
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Any picks for this weekend? I'm going with the home teams in all 4 although I think Houston or Seattle would be the most likely upsets to happen.
Vikings +7.5
Titans +10
Chiefs -10
Packers -4
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Rodgers is 0-5 all time in the playoffs against the NFC West. He will likely have to go 2-0 against them this year to reach the Super Bowl.
I hear he's only 1-4 when the opponent has a left-handed weakside linebacker, too!
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Any picks for this weekend? I'm going with the home teams in all 4 although I think Houston or Seattle would be the most likely upsets to happen.
I think Tennesee pulls out a win in a shocker.
Niners win a close defensive game,
Texans expose kc defense and get a win in a shoot out.
Pack keeps winning ugly and their defense beats down a beat up seahawk offense. Packers will grind out a win by dominating in trenches both sides of the ball.
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Hmm .. I can watch Marquette lose at 3pm or the Vikings lose at 3:35.
Decisions, decisions.
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Hmm .. I can watch Marquette lose at 3pm or the Vikings lose at 3:35.
Decisions, decisions.
Or you could watch Marquette win.
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Or you could watch Marquette win.
BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
Good one!
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Or you could watch Marquette win.
True, he probably has the Villanova game DVR'd
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True, he probably has the Villanova game DVR'd
HEY OHHHHH.
Indeed, as I empty the ketchup bottle that is PSVue, there's at least 6 MU games DVR'd.
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Hmm .. I can watch Marquette lose at 3pm or the Vikings lose at 3:35.
Decisions, decisions.
May I suggest the Arby’s in Glendale.
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May I suggest the Arby’s in Glendale.
I was banned from that location.
There was a disagreement on how many horsey sauce packets I could take from the premises.
Jokes on them, I use an Uber to go through the drive-thru and they are none the wiser.
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Hmm .. I can watch Marquette lose at 3pm or the Vikings lose at 3:35.
Decisions, decisions.
One down, one to go.
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One down, one to go.
Yippee!
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Kirk Cousins celebrating his first career Playoff win with a Wild Card round victory in his eight season sounds like Marquette basketball fans celebrating a Marquette loss.
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Kirk Cousins celebrating his first career Playoff win with a Wild Card round victory in his eight season sounds like Marquette basketball fans celebrating a Marquette loss.
Nah. Kirk has turned the corner! He's a winner! It's just one bad game. The Vikings need to hold onto him at all costs!
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Bill Cowher isn’t a hall of fame coach.
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Bill Cowher isn’t a hall of fame coach.
Not yet.
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Not yet.
He shouldn’t be.
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I think next season is the Vikings 60th.
I remember for their 50th season, they wore a "50" patch on their jersey. I always thought that was odd, sad. I mean .. 50 years with nothing to show for it.
Soon to be 60.
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I think next season is the Vikings 60th.
I remember for their 50th season, they wore a "50" patch on their jersey. I always thought that was odd, sad. I mean .. 50 years with nothing to show for it.
Soon to be 60.
Well come on now be fair, they did injure Aaron rodgers once.
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I think next season is the Vikings 60th.
I remember for their 50th season, they wore a "50" patch on their jersey. I always thought that was odd, sad. I mean .. 50 years with nothing to show for it.
Soon to be 60.
First NFL team to lose 30 playoff games.
SKOL
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First NFL team to lose 30 playoff games.
SKOL
Including a tied for record, 4 super bowl loses.
Skoal. I can hear that fooking horn blowing.
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Bill Cowher isn’t a hall of fame coach.
Yeah, I saw that and was thinking the same thing.
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Including a tied for record, 4 super bowl loses.
Skoal. I can hear that fooking horn blowing.
Sort of. Vikings and Bills have 4 losses, no wins. But if you are talking losses, the Broncos have 5, Pats have 6.
Of course, they also have 3 and 6 wins.
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Yeah, I saw that and was thinking the same thing.
I just looked at the list of hall of fame Coaches. Cowher does not belong with that group.
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I thought one of the six seeds would win today, but I thought the Vikes had the better shot. I was wrong.
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I thought one of the six seeds would win today, but I thought the Vikes had the better shot. I was wrong.
I didn’t think either would win but if I would’ve had to pick it would’ve been Titans. Henry is a monster and they can control the clock when they get a lead. 9ers are outstanding and Kirk Cousins is still Kirk Cousins.
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Ravens look completely unprepared from the jump, and quite frankly the Titans have whipped their a$$ in all three phases. This Titans team is legit, one of those teams that just got better as the season progressed.
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Ravens look completely unprepared from the jump, and quite frankly the Titans have whipped their a$$ in all three phases. This Titans team is legit, one of those teams that just got better as the season progressed.
Yup. Who would’ve guessed inserting Ryan freaking Tannehill into the starting spot would turn their season around?
That’s why I don’t get why the Titans are the hot rumor for Brady. Tannehill has been significantly better than Brady this year.
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Lamar.....just brutal
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Yup. Who would’ve guessed inserting Ryan freaking Tannehill into the starting spot would turn their season around?
That’s why I don’t get why the Titans are the hot rumor for Brady. Tannehill has been significantly better than Brady this year.
Have to give Vrabel a ton of credit for making that move. A lot of franchises with that high of a draft pick at QB would stick it out. Totally changed their season, and they self scouted well to think Tannenhill could improve them.
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Have to give Vrabel a ton of credit for making that move. A lot of franchises with that high of a draft pick at QB would stick it out. Totally changed their season, and they self scouted well to think Tannenhill could improve them.
Totally agree. Took a lot of guts. All you have to do is remember Lovie's absolute refusal to even consider pulling Grossman, no matter how poorly he played.
Liking my San Fran over KC pick in the Super Bowl a lot more today. We'll see if I still like it tomorrow!
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Have to give Vrabel a ton of credit for making that move. A lot of franchises with that high of a draft pick at QB would stick it out. Totally changed their season, and they self scouted well to think Tannenhill could improve them.
Mariota doesn’t have the arm to stretch the field, Tannenhill does. The Titans have the receivers who can stretch the field. And, with Henry, he is much more effective when you can stretch the field. Marriage made in heaven.
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When was the last time a RB carried a team into the Super Bowl? Henry has been unreal since November. He has run for 125+ in 6 of his last 8 games.
And, when was the last time a team had their QB throw for less than a 100 yards a game and win back-to-back playoff games?
Doesn't seem sustainable, but the Texans and Chiefs had the 25th and 26th ranked run defenses this season.
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Yup. Who would’ve guessed inserting Ryan freaking Tannehill into the starting spot would turn their season around?
I definitely didn't think it would turn the season around.
But Tannehill was never a terrible quarterback. He just had nothing around him and had to throw the ball too much. A strong armed veteran quarterback, whose learned from his mistakes and has a good team around him, can seemingly win out of nowhere. Rich Gannon is an example. He likely won't become a multi-year All Pro like Gannon, but I wouldn't mess with what's working.
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I definitely didn't think it would turn the season around.
But Tannehill was never a terrible quarterback. He just had nothing around him and had to throw the ball too much. A strong armed veteran quarterback, whose learned from his mistakes and has a good team around him, can seemingly win out of nowhere. Rich Gannon is an example. He likely won't become a multi-year All Pro like Gannon, but I wouldn't mess with what's working.
That’s actually a really good comp.
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Mariota doesn’t have the arm to stretch the field, Tannenhill does. The Titans have the receivers who can stretch the field. And, with Henry, he is much more effective when you can stretch the field. Marriage made in heaven.
Not only does he have the arm, but he is a very accurate deep thrower.
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When was the last time a RB carried a team into the Super Bowl? Henry has been unreal since November. He has run for 125+ in 6 of his last 8 games.
And, when was the last time a team had their QB throw for less than a 100 yards a game and win back-to-back playoff games?
Doesn't seem sustainable, but the Texans and Chiefs had the 25th and 26th ranked run defenses this season.
The answer to your second question: The '74 Steelers passed for 95 yards in their AFC championship game win over Oakland and 84 yards in their Super Bowl win over Minnesota. The previous year, the '73 Dolphins passed for 26 yards in their AFC title game win over Oakland and 63 yards in their Super Bowl win over Minnesota. CBS said yesterday it hasn't been done since those teams.
Obviously, this era is so different. The Dolphins completely dominated back-to-back Super Bowls despite Bob Griese passing only 18 times -- TOTAL -- against Washington and Minnesota. It was Morris left, Kiick right, and Csonka up the middle. Especially Csonka.
So for that to happen in this pass-happy era, it's pretty amazing.
As for when was the last time a RB "carried" a team to the Super Bowl, I guess it depends upon one's definition of "carry." I think a pretty good argument could be made that Terrell Davis and Emmitt Smith carried their teams to Super Bowls in the 1990s, but they had HoF QBs, too. Before that, lots of RBs did -- Csonka, Harris, Riggins, Allen, etc, etc.
As for Henry ...
The Panthers went 2-6 at home this season, and they happened to win the only 2 home games my wife and I went to. One of those was against Tennessee. The Panthers took a 17-0 halftime lead in part because the Titans only gave the ball to Henry 3 freakin' times. They had 3 series in which Henry, inexplicably, didn't touch the football. In the second half, they started feeding him the ball and he helped the Titans pull close. But the Panthers' offense did well behind McCaffrey and the Titans had to pass it more in the 4th quarter. I'm glad Vrabel and his OC messed up in the first half!
Henry has gained at least 100 in 7 of 8 games since -- winning all 7 (lost a close game to Hou when he had 86). He's had games of 211, 195, 188, 182, 159 and 149 during this stretch. Impressive.
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One of the best halves of football I have seen.
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One of the best halves of football I have seen.
Bill Obrien shoulda been canned at half time.
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Bill Obrien shoulda been canned at half time.
went to step on KC's throats, and stepped on his own d%@!
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went to step on KC's throats, and stepped on his own d%@!
Thats the issue. He chose the wrong/stupid time to do it too.
He had a chance to step on their throat on 4th and 1 in the red zone, played safe and kicked the field goal while burning a TO.
The TO screwed them later in the half on the Hopkins non call PI. Couldnt challenge.
Guy is a clown.
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Suicide hotlines may be busy in Chitown after the Pace Bowl.
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So, tell me why Eric Bieniemy is not an NFL head coach again...
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Stefanski new Browns coach. Ok.
How do you hire a coach before the gm? Most gms are going to want to hire their own coach. What a f'd up mess
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So, tell me why Eric Bieniemy is not an NFL head coach again...
Who wouldn't rather have Stefanski? His offense only chokes against good teams - not everybody.
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Who wouldn't rather have Stefanski? His offense only chokes against good teams - not everybody.
Which brings up , why not Robert Salah, who owned Stefanski? Oh, that’s right...
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One can point to a decision or two by O'Brien as screwing up Houston's momentum, and I wouldn't argue with you ... but I just don't think KC was going to lose that game.
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What a load of horsecrap. An alleged playoff caliber ref should NEVER blow that dead. Absolutely ridiculous.
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Which brings up , why not Robert Salah, who owned Stefanski? Oh, that’s right...
Because anyone that can get a team with Cousins as a QB to the second round of the playoffs walks on water...?
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Not going to complain about it but no clue why Adams isn’t double teamed every play.
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Starting to look frighteningly like the Kaepernik game.
Why wouldn't you spy on Wilson EVERY down.
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A lot of glaringly obvious holds by Seattle, none being called.
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A Packer defender has been injured every other play so far in the 4th.
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A Packer defender has been injured every other play so far in the 4th.
I think they are just tired, and using it for a break without calling TO.
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clowney isn't near the player you would have expected coming out of college-mistake prone-over rated
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Can't believe Seattle punted there
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that's the rodgers of old right there
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Adams should have went down in bounds.
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what goes around, goes around, eyn'a? touche' to the replacement refs
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Going to get our asses kicked next week but it always feels good to beat the seahawks. F them and F Pete Carroll.
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Atrocious spot but credit to Rodgers and GB for making it happen on two different 3rd and longs
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That drop by Seahawks receiver on last drive was huge.
Rodgers comes up big when necessary.
Congrats to the Packers.
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Atrocious spot but credit to Rodgers and GB for making it happen on two different 3rd and longs
Not an atrocious spot. Go look at it again. They reviewed the damn play twice. You obviously see what you want to see.
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Going to get our asses kicked next week but it always feels good to beat the seahawks. F them and F Pete Carroll.
Pete Carroll is a really swell guy, never cheated at USC or Seattle (cough cough)...I’m sorry to see him out.
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Pete Carroll is a really swell guy, never cheated at USC or Seattle (cough cough)...I’m sorry to see him out.
See there is something we can agree on. Pete Carroll makes my skin crawl
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Going to get our asses kicked next week but it always feels good to beat the seahawks. F them and F Pete Carroll.
Have faith. It rarely goes like everyone thinks. Very few thought Ravens would lose. Going to the nfc champ is a huge accomplishment for the Packers. They have already exceeded expectations by a mile.
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Have faith. It rarely goes like everyone thinks. Very few thought Ravens would lose. Going to the nfc champ is a huge accomplishment for the Packers. They have already already exceeded expectations by a mile.
Definitely agree on exceeded expectations. Just trying to prepare myself early for a beat down. I mentally prepared well for the first matchup and wasn’t too upset when I got to have an early bed time. Hate the prime time games.
Feel like tonight’s game was the perfect microcosm of the Packers season. Good first drive, defense holds up. Second half offense disappears, defense gets a full on stress test and they somehow just do enough to win.
The thing I like most about the team this year is their ability to close out the last few minutes. I knew the Seahawks weren’t getting the ball back just like a few other teams this year that punted with a late deficit. No clue why the Seahawks continues to let Adams get 1 on 1 coverage.
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Nicely done by the Pack. That's a real good win against a team, especially a QB, who does not lose easily.
I'm still seeing KC and that offense in the SB against SF and that defense, but I wouldn't be stunned if the Pack wins next week, and I'd enjoy that SB, too.
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Season is a success no matter how spectacularly it ends next Sunday. Good feeling to be back in the NFC Championship, even if I don't expect to be competitive in it.
And unnatural carnal knowledge the entire Seahawks team, but no one harder than Pete Carroll
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Season is a success no matter how spectacularly it ends next Sunday. Good feeling to be back in the NFC Championship, even if I don't expect to be competitive in it.
And unnatural carnal knowledge the entire Seahawks team, but no one harder than Pete Carroll
I rather like Russell Wilson. And Lockett's a hell of a receiver and competitor. The rest of 'em, I either have no opinion on or no use for.
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I rather like Russell Wilson. And Lockett's a hell of a receiver and competitor. The rest of 'em, I either have no opinion on or no use for.
Seems like a lot of former Seahawks don’t share your feelings for Russell Wilson. Guy’s a walking cliche. Between him and JJ Watt the Badgers might’ve produced the two biggest phonies in the NFL.
But hey, God wanted him to throw four interceptions in a game to overcome adversity. So good for him for learning the lesson God sent him through football.
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Seems like a lot of former Seahawks don’t share your feelings for Russell Wilson. Guy’s a walking cliche. Between him and JJ Watt the Badgers might’ve produced the two biggest phonies in the NFL.
But hey, God wanted him to throw four interceptions in a game to overcome adversity. So good for him for learning the lesson God sent him through football.
wades, I'm not going to argue with you about something I know little about. From the outside (the far outside), Wilson has always seemed like a decent guy.
I'm not in Seattle and I haven't read a lot about Wilson as a teammate. So I did a quick googles, and I found this ESPN article from just last week:
https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/28411255/inside-russell-wilson-seahawks-where-positivity-corniness-reign
Positive reinforcement is one thing, but these sound bites sound nearly cultish.
"Great confidence! Great belief!" "Why not!" "Clear heart! Clear mind! Clear eyes!" "Unwavering language! Unwavering belief!"
It rings too precise, too practiced. It is exactly why people find Russell Wilson so hard to believe. And so I spend the next couple of days asking teammates and coaches if this is how Russell really talks.
First, I ask a group of offensive linemen gathered around the locker of center Joey Hunt. "He says that stuff every day; he's straight positivity," offensive tackle George Fant says.
"The stuff he said during the miked-up is stuff he be saying," says Germain Ifedi, another offensive tackle. "People who thought it wasn't genuine, that's crazy. He's the same dude every day, consistent as hell."
I call Cliff Avril, a stalwart of those Seahawks defenses that dominated the first half of the decade when Wilson was a young quarterback.
"I've known him for seven years -- it's hard to fake the funk for seven years," Avril says. "It's hard to put on a show for seven years. So yes, how you see him on TV and how you see him on the field -- he really lives that way, and he really is that way."
You (or I, if I looked harder or cared enough) probably could find stuff from others who say they don't like him and/or that he's a phony. That's cool.
Either way, I'd take him to QB my team. Hell of a player.
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wades, I'm not going to argue with you about something I know little about. From the outside (the far outside), Wilson has always seemed like a decent guy.
I'm not in Seattle and I haven't read a lot about Wilson as a teammate. So I did a quick googles, and I found this ESPN article from just last week:
https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/28411255/inside-russell-wilson-seahawks-where-positivity-corniness-reign
Positive reinforcement is one thing, but these sound bites sound nearly cultish.
"Great confidence! Great belief!" "Why not!" "Clear heart! Clear mind! Clear eyes!" "Unwavering language! Unwavering belief!"
It rings too precise, too practiced. It is exactly why people find Russell Wilson so hard to believe. And so I spend the next couple of days asking teammates and coaches if this is how Russell really talks.
First, I ask a group of offensive linemen gathered around the locker of center Joey Hunt. "He says that stuff every day; he's straight positivity," offensive tackle George Fant says.
"The stuff he said during the miked-up is stuff he be saying," says Germain Ifedi, another offensive tackle. "People who thought it wasn't genuine, that's crazy. He's the same dude every day, consistent as hell."
I call Cliff Avril, a stalwart of those Seahawks defenses that dominated the first half of the decade when Wilson was a young quarterback.
"I've known him for seven years -- it's hard to fake the funk for seven years," Avril says. "It's hard to put on a show for seven years. So yes, how you see him on TV and how you see him on the field -- he really lives that way, and he really is that way."
You (or I, if I looked harder or cared enough) probably could find stuff from others who say they don't like him and/or that he's a phony. That's cool.
Either way, I'd take him to QB my team. Hell of a player.
There’s a funny story about Dick Sherman’s time in Seattle out there. Something about picking him off and then throwing the ball back to him after while yelling “you effing suck.” Not well liked by the “Legion of Boom” because of how Pete Carroll coddled him. Can’t imagine the play call at the goal line in the SB helped that.
Also (not directed to you anymore), looks like the refs had a more accurate “line to gain” angle than the yellow line.
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First time in many many years that I could watch a big Packer post season game and not tear my hair out at irrational decisions made by the head coach. Congratulations Matt LaFleur.
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Season is a success no matter how spectacularly it ends next Sunday. Good feeling to be back in the NFC Championship, even if I don't expect to be competitive in it.
And unnatural carnal knowledge the entire Seahawks team, but no one harder than Pete Carroll
If you asked me at the beginning - or even middle of the season - if I would consider this season a success to get to NFC Title game, I would have said yes.
But now, I know I will be extremely disappointed if they aren't in the SB.
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Not an atrocious spot. Go look at it again. They reviewed the damn play twice. You obviously see what you want to see.
:o
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:o
He is not down yet on that pic. That's you and others pathetic way of cheapening the win. Ridiculous. If you want to look at calls there was one in the first half that actually was a game changer
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Seahawks fans now know what it is like to be a Lions fan. It was damn close. And honestly, there wasn't enough there to change the spot.
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:o
More like...
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Also (not directed to you anymore), looks like the refs had a more accurate “line to gain” angle than the yellow line.
My wife and I noticed, when looking at the replays, that the ball definitely appeared to be over the line if one looked out from where the down marker was.
There was absolutely no evidence any viewer was presented with that was definitive enough to reverse the call, that's for sure.
FWIW, I'm neither a Packer lover or hater.
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Courtesy of Andrew Brandt. Here is what would be the actual fake first down line, not the incorrect one they showed on TV
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TV announcers say all the time that the yellow line is unofficial. And it is.
Using an unofficial, made-for-TV-viewers image to try to "prove" something is just dopey.
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Courtesy of Andrew Brandt. Here is what would be the actual fake first down line, not the incorrect one they showed on TV
Yeah that first down marker generated on the screen is not even close. Not to mention the egregious non-fumble recovery they awarded the Seahawks in the first quarter. Great win Pack.
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I actually wish the line on the TV was accurate. I wish those Fail Mary lovin' Seahawk fans got screwed in the most unfair of ways. They deserve no less.
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The hiring of Stefanski...more to it...also note Andrew Berry may become GM. Berry is African American.
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The Browns have "requested permission" to interview Eagles VP/Football Operations Andrew Berry for their open GM position after yesterday hiring Vikings offensive coordinator Kevin Stefanski as coach in a move that would help "achieve that elusive organizational alignment" Browns co-Owner Jimmy Haslam is seeking, according to Mary Kay Cabot of the Cleveland PLAIN DEALER. Berry formerly served as VP/Player Personnel for the Browns, and he "would pair well" with Stefanski, as the two got to know each other during the Browns' coaching search last year. Berry also is a "long-time favorite of Haslam" (Cleveland PLAIN DEALER, 1/13). In Akron, Nate Ulrich noted Berry had been "expected to emerge" as a GM candidate since the Browns parted ways with former GM John Dorsey on Dec. 31. Berry has "huge fans in Browns ownership who didn't want him to leave" for the Eagles role last February (AKRON BEACON JOURNAL, 1/12). In Ohio, Jeff Schudel in a front-page piece notes luring Berry back to Cleveland is the "only missing piece now" in the Browns' offseason plan (Willoughby NEWS-HERALD, 1/13).
LIVING IN THE LIMELIGHT: The PLAIN DEALER's Cabot notes Stefanski will be the fifth coach hired by the team since the Jimmy and Dee Haslam bought the team in '12. Browns Chief Strategy Officer Paul DePodesta, who "ran the search this year, favored Stefanski last year, but was overruled by former GM John Dorsey." A source said that the search "came down to two finalists," Stefanski and 49ers defensive coordinator Robert Saleh. But Cabot notes with DePodesta "driving the bus, he didn't let Stefanski get away this time." Patriots offensive coordinator Josh McDaniels was "flown into Cleveland on Friday on Haslam's private jet along with his wife, Laura, but left without a contract after seven hours." A source said that the Browns were "not open to McDaniels having a large say in the hiring of his GM," and that they "didn't put in a request to interview" Patriots Dir of Pro Personnel Dave Zeigler for the GM vacancy (Cleveland PLAIN DEALER, 1/13). In Canton, Steve Doerschuk notes Stefanski was "familiar with the room, especially" Jimmy Haslam and DePodesta. Stefanski "made it clear he was willing to yield to certain DePodesta standards, such as an analytics person with a head set and access to the coaching staff on game days," in addition to "certain Haslam likes, such as hours-long, Monday-after, owner-coach meetings" (Canton REPOSITORY, 1/13).
INSTILLING CONFIDENCE: In Akron, Marla Ridenour in a front-page piece writes Haslam by hiring Stefanski "showed how much he values" DePodesta. Haslam listened to DePodesta, who "currently has his ear." Ridenour: "Considering Haslam's history of disastrous choices, that seems like progress" (AKRON BEACON JOURNAL, 1/13). In Cleveland, Dan Labbe writes Haslam "made it clear" DePodesta was going to lead the hiring process, and Stefanski's hiring is "as clear an indication the Browns, this time, stuck to their process." The Browns "appear on the path to alignment because they decided to put the hiring process in the hands of DePodesta and they are following his lead" (Cleveland PLAIN DEALER, 1/13). THE ATHLETIC's Jason Lloyd wrote Haslam is "following DePodesta's orders," and given a re-do after last year's Freddie Kitchens hire, Haslam "chose to listen to perhaps the smartest person in the building. Lloyd: "That's usually sound advice" (THEATHLETIC.com, 1/12). YAHOO SPORTS' Charles Robinson writes Haslam for the first time is "trying to engineer a structure where the head coach, general manager and chief strategist are not only on the same page, but are carrying the same book and speaking the same kind of football language." Robinson: "That is what this hire is about: Locking the braintrust together rather than incentivizing rivalry" (SPORTS.YAHOO.com, 1/13). ESPN.com's Jake Trotter wrote the Stefanski hire is a "victory" for DePodesta (ESPN.com, 1/12).
MCDAN-NO: CBSSPORTS.com's Jason La Canfora cited sources as saying Patriots coach Bill Belichick "refused to allow" McDaniels to "move up his scheduled interviews with teams interested in him as a head coaching candidate to the start" of last week. The sources added that Belichick "pushed special teams coordinator Joe Judge" for the Giants' coaching vacancy and "greenlit" a interview for him last Monday. La Canfora noted Belichick and Patriots Owner Robert Kraft have "long been worried about losing McDaniels," as is "well documented." Belichick has a "reputation for being difficult to work with when it comes to other teams looking to hire an assistant he does not want to lose" (CBSSPORTS.com, 1/11). In Boston, Ben Volin writes McDaniels is "fortunate to have a golden parachute -- a well-paying job" as Patriots OC, but his "image, and his ego, have taken a massive hit over the past couple of weeks as he was passed over for head coaching jobs for the second straight year." Last year, only the Packers were willing to interview McDaniels, and he "finished third." This year, he again "only got one interview" (BOSTON GLOBE, 1/13).
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welcome to our world-payback a beach eyn'a? what goes around...goes around
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HInIZ4CdVOw
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The angst over the Graham catch is dumb. The Seahawks lost because they couldn't get off the field on defense on third down and then they decided to punt on 4th and 11 late in the game down 5, and never got the ball back. Even if Graham was a half yard short, there's 100% chance Green Bay goes for it.
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I watched a lot of Burrow this year, that guy is going to be the face of the NFL in six/seven years. He is Rodgers 2.0, he may struggle early in year one with the Bengals, but I really think he’s going to be special at the next level.
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Laughter from this Houston fan (my tear ducts shut down long ago)....as any Houston fan knows this is simply typical for us.
Consider in the last 24 hours:
1) the Texans choked off a 24-0 deficit to lose by 20...we draw on our memory of the Oilers in 1993 choking a 35-3 Bills lead ...but this one seemed worse. We liked Bum Phillips even in those Steeler Luv Ya Blue losses..we cant stand Bill Obrien. He is an immovable mud pit of mediocrity.
2) lifelong Astros fans ( since 1960) finally got their World Series win in 2017, and a statistically historical team falls just short in 2019....But wait ...shucks...from today on we are forever tainted cheaters, rightly so. We should have known ...the day after the WS parade in 2017, QB Deshaun Watson is out for the year ...ACL blowout in a thursday practice. A reminder from the gods...you are a Houston sports fan...no good goes unpunished.
3) every time UH football got good our coaches move on (Art Briles, Kevin Sumlin, Tom Herman) With pride we lure one with a Power 5 pedigree Dana Holverson only to watch him revert us to 4-8 with just one home win. Today our QB announced that... after shutting himself down mid season...he is going elsewhere.
Oh well just another typical 24 hour period in Houston sports fandom. 40 years for me now. Except for a window of Rockets in early 90s....this is our typical....So, why do folks keep moving here? If they like sports they deserve the warning.
Houston is a brutal town to be a sports fan.
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I watched a lot of Burrow this year, that guy is going to be the face of the NFL in six/seven years. He is Rodgers 2.0, he may struggle early in year one with the Bengals, but I really think he’s going to be special at the next level.
I’ve seen some knocks on his arm strength, which would preclude him from Rodgers comparisons IMO. However, his pocket presence and awareness is unlike anything I’ve seen from a college QB in a long time. His sixth sense and movement back there is unreal. One of my best friends from college is a huge Bengals fan and is besides himself with excitement
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I’ve seen some knocks on his arm strength, which would preclude him from Rodgers comparisons IMO. However, his pocket presence and awareness is unlike anything I’ve seen from a college QB in a long time. His sixth sense and movement back there is unreal. One of my best friends from college is a huge Bengals fan and is besides himself with excitement
Some of the throws he makes are ridiculous for a college kid, he's throwing dimes that NFL QB's can't make. To top it off, he's doing this against the highest level of competition (Bama/Clemson/Oklahoma/Auburn). I agree that he doesn't have the arm strength of Trevor Lawrence (who has a rocket of an arm), but in a pro offense, I think he will be fantastic.
Bengals have an offensive minded head coach in place, I like Tyler Boyd, Mixon is a good back, so there's some pieces there, and the thought of being excited for Bengal football is weird, but could be some good Lamar Jackson/Joe Burrow matchups down the road.
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Recognizing that there's a strong possibility I'm proven wrong here ... I'm actually not sold on Burrow as being anything special in the NFL.
He had an unbelievable season, but nothing in his prior play even hinted at this, and his performance just happened to coincide with the hiring of Joe Brady. His physical attributes are just average by NFL standards, and I think some of the plays he's made at the college level will be difficult for him to duplicate against bigger/faster/stronger NFL athletes.
I think, IF he remains healthy, Tua has a better NFL career.
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Recognizing that there's a strong possibility I'm proven wrong here ... I'm actually not sold on Burrow as being anything special in the NFL.
He had an unbelievable season, but nothing in his prior play even hinted at this, and his performance just happened to coincide with the hiring of Joe Brady. His physical attributes are just average by NFL standards, and I think some of the plays he's made at the college level will be difficult for him to duplicate against bigger/faster/stronger NFL athletes.
I think, IF he remains healthy, Tua has a better NFL career.
I have to agree with you ... could not stop thinking "Mitch Trubisky" as I watched him play.
Also, agree about Tua.
All this said, Trevor Lawrence, despite not having the best night last night, might be the player to throw games to get the draft pick for him (see his tOSU performance and remember he is Cam Newton's size at 6' 6")
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Recognizing that there's a strong possibility I'm proven wrong here ... I'm actually not sold on Burrow as being anything special in the NFL.
He had an unbelievable season, but nothing in his prior play even hinted at this, and his performance just happened to coincide with the hiring of Joe Brady. His physical attributes are just average by NFL standards, and I think some of the plays he's made at the college level will be difficult for him to duplicate against bigger/faster/stronger NFL athletes.
I think, IF he remains healthy, Tua has a better NFL career.
I agree, he seems to me that he has a rather flat trajectory on his throws. When he releases, I often think he doesn’t have enough air under the ball and yet completes them rather easily. That may not translate to the NFL, but then again, what do I know.
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I love Burrow, I'll stand alone on the Joe Burrow bridge when it comes to him having a great career if need be.
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I have to agree with you ... could not stop thinking "Mitch Trubisky" as I watched him play.
All this said, Trevor Lawrence, despite not having the best night last night, might be the player to throw games to get the draft pick for him (see his tOSU performance and remember he is Cam Newton's size at 6' 6")
Very impressed with Burrow, and I think he will be a fine pro. FWIW, he was 10 times better this year than Trubisky ever was at UNC.
I like Lawrence a lot, too. He might be the same height as Newton, but Cam (especially pre-vegan) was a massive human being, 250-260 pounds. Dealt out more punishment than he took ... for awhile, anyway. Newton was the LeBron of QBs -- a man among boys. Lawrence is built more like Rodman.
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I love Burrow, I'll stand alone on the Joe Burrow bridge when it comes to him having a great career if need be.
For a 2 star recruit, he has done well. He has to continue to prove people wrong which is what makes him succeed.
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I love Burrow, I'll stand alone on the Joe Burrow bridge when it comes to him having a great career if need be.
Agreed and said the same thing in the college thread last night. Thought Burrow was the better college QB and pro prospect going into the title game, and the title game certainly didn’t change my mind.
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I should have been more clear, being a play caller shouldn’t matter. Pat Shurmur was a play caller and was a terrible coach.
Matt Nagy called plays for 5 games, Freddie Kitchens for 8 games. Zac Taylor called plays for one month. Joe Judge has never called plays.
Byron Leftwich has more experience calling plays than all of the guys listed above.
Eric Bieniemy not calling plays is a convenient excuse. If we admit play calling matters, let’s at least assume skin color is still an issue in 2020. Let’s not kid ourselves, if Bieniemy were white, he’d be hired by now
The Panthers are really going against the grain with their hires.
Rhule called neither offensive nor defensive plays at Baylor, yet he was hired as the Panthers' head coach. He is bringing along his DC from Baylor, who does have years of experience calling defensive signals. But the hot rumor is that Rhule will hire Joe Brady -- LSU's 30-year-old "passing game coordinator" -- as the Panthers OC. Although Brady had extensive input into LSU's offense, he was not the primary play-caller there (OC Steve Ensminger was).
So if the Panthers sign Brady, they will have hired both a head coach and offensive coordinator who have not been offensive play-callers, even at the college level.
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The Panthers are really going against the grain with their hires.
Rhule called neither offensive nor defensive plays at Baylor, yet he was hired as the Panthers' head coach. He is bringing along his DC from Baylor, who does have years of experience calling defensive signals. But the hot rumor is that Rhule will hire Joe Brady -- LSU's 30-year-old "passing game coordinator" -- as the Panthers OC. Although Brady had extensive input into LSU's offense, he was not the primary play-caller there (OC Steve Ensminger was).
So if the Panthers sign Brady, they will have hired both a head coach and offensive coordinator who have not been offensive play-callers, even at the college level.
Brady just agreed to an extension at LSU.
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I should have been more clear, being a play caller shouldn’t matter. Pat Shurmur was a play caller and was a terrible coach.
Matt Nagy called plays for 5 games, Freddie Kitchens for 8 games. Zac Taylor called plays for one month. Joe Judge has never called plays.
Byron Leftwich has more experience calling plays than all of the guys listed above.
Eric Bieniemy not calling plays is a convenient excuse. If we admit play calling matters, let’s at least assume skin color is still an issue in 2020. Let’s not kid ourselves, if Bieniemy were white, he’d be hired by now
Don't forget that Shurmer failed as a head coach once and got another one. Adam Gase failed as a coach and immediately got a new job. Jim Schwarz was interviewed for a job this offsesaon, and let's not forget the stellar job he did with the Lions.
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Brady just agreed to an extension at LSU.
Well then ... never mind.
Maybe.
We all know what college sports extensions mean, and David Tepper is one of the richest men on earth, but it sure looks like Brady is staying at LSU.
Perhaps now the Panthers will hire an offensive play-caller who actually has some experience calling plays.
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Recognizing that there's a strong possibility I'm proven wrong here ... I'm actually not sold on Burrow as being anything special in the NFL.
He had an unbelievable season, but nothing in his prior play even hinted at this, and his performance just happened to coincide with the hiring of Joe Brady. His physical attributes are just average by NFL standards, and I think some of the plays he's made at the college level will be difficult for him to duplicate against bigger/faster/stronger NFL athletes.
I think, IF he remains healthy, Tua has a better NFL career.
Well its not as if Joe Brady was Mike Leach or some passing guru with a long track record of prolific passing attacks and getting monster numbers out of QBs. I think he and Burrow probably had a good rapport and complimented each other. I dont think this happens if its still Danny Etling or Brandon Harris under center.
Burrow was a bit of a late bloomer, even though he won Mr Football. He was never was gonna start over Barrett or Haskins, who were much more Urban Meyer types of QBs. But he was accurate in his appearances at OSU, the little he did play. And if he showed NOTHING, LSU doesn't take a chance on him. His first year at LSU wasn't supernova, but he was SEC POW a few times and played very well. The Trubisky comparison's couldn't be more off. Trubisky as an NFL starter for a few years doesn't make reads and decisions like Burrow has this year.
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Burrow reminds me of Josh Allen, with the added security of having shown those skills and athleticism in the SEC as opposed to the Mountain West.
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Well then ... never mind.
Maybe.
We all know what college sports extensions mean, and David Tepper is one of the richest men on earth, but it sure looks like Brady is staying at LSU.
Perhaps now the Panthers will hire an offensive play-caller who actually has some experience calling plays.
Well, hello, Nostradamus.
Adam Schefter @AdamSchefter
LSU’s passing game coordinator Joe Brady has told people today that he is planning to return to the NFL and the Carolina Panthers, per league sources.
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One season removed from being just an offensive assistant and now the youngest coordinator in the league. Wild glow up for him. Good for him
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Burrow reminds me of Josh Allen, with the added security of having shown those skills and athleticism in the SEC as opposed to the Mountain West.
I really don't see the similarity, Burrow.
However, Justin Herbert definitely reminded me of Allen. I think some team will take him in the 5-15 range and regret it for many years.
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I really don't see the similarity, Burrow.
However, Justin Herbert definitely reminded me of Allen. I think some team will take him in the 5-15 range and regret it for many years.
Neither Burrow or Herbert remind me of Allen ... or each other.
They certainly don't have Allen's arm, which is right up there with Mahomes in terms of pure strength and velocity (Allen actually threw harder at the combine than Mahomes ... 62 mph to 60).
Burrow reminds me a bit of Tony Romo.
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Well, hello, Nostradamus.
Adam Schefter @AdamSchefter
LSU’s passing game coordinator Joe Brady has told people today that he is planning to return to the NFL and the Carolina Panthers, per league sources.
I'd love to claim some kind of great insight, but we all know that college coaching contracts are a total sham. The rumor mill here in Charlotte had been buzzing on this guy.
One season removed from being just an offensive assistant and now the youngest coordinator in the league. Wild glow up for him. Good for him
Well, Tepper said he wanted to think outside the box ... and he has.
Again, in a league that tends to hire coaches who have significant play-calling experience, both the head coach and even the OC have precious little. But Tepper is infatuated with Rhule, gave him a 7-year contract and said he will be patient, suggesting he is willing to let Rhule and Brady learn on the fly.
It will be interesting to have a front-row seat for it. Hope it doesn't go bad for my team.
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Just for fun...
https://twitter.com/DanDeYoungFB/status/1216941749895147520
I'd do it in a heartbeat.
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Just for fun...
https://twitter.com/DanDeYoungFB/status/1216941749895147520
I'd do it in a heartbeat.
I would do this yesterday but I don't think the bengals would or should. What good would players on the down side do the bengals who need a qb and are at least a couple years away. As far as the Bears, when was the last time they had a game changing qb.
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Just for fun...
https://twitter.com/DanDeYoungFB/status/1216941749895147520
I'd do it in a heartbeat.
Agreed. I don’t think the Bengals would do it. But Hicks is coming off a significant injury and Mack is unreal but worthless on a team not ready to contend. For another chance on a QB who on the surface is far more ready to contribute in a developed offense than Trubisky was
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Poor MU82 ...
Luke Kuechly just announced he's retiring.
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Poor MU82 ...
Luke Kuechly just announced he's retiring.
I'd be interested in 82's opinion on Luke's play this year. I only saw Carolina twice and he didn't seem to be quite the same guy as he had been. Don't know if it was injuries and just the accumulated hits that had finally caught up to him.
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I'd be interested in 82's opinion on Luke's play this year. I only saw Carolina twice and he didn't seem to be quite the same guy as he had been. Don't know if it was injuries and just the accumulated hits that had finally caught up to him.
PFF shouldn't be taken as gospel, of course, but they had him as second team all-pro this year
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Yea, no reason for the Bengals to do it. Just a thought experiment for Bears fans.
Also, I love this guy's videos. One on Pack D/49ers matchup:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ipNyB5eAiM
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Stefanski new Browns coach. Ok.
How do you hire a coach before the gm? Most gms are going to want to hire their own coach. What a f'd up mess
Why Stefanski? Because every other coach in the league has too much integrity to accept the conditions that he did. Head football coaches like to run the show. Stefanski won’t .
Stefanski yielded to certain expectations of part-time chief strategy office Paul DePodesta, including having someone from the analytics group wearing a headset and having access to the coaching staff on game days. Stefanski also agreed to owner Jimmy Haslam’s desire to engage in hours-long meetings with his head coach the day after games.
Haslem and Podesta also expect the Stefanski to turn in game plans to the owner and analytics department by Friday, and then attend an end-of-week analytics meeting to discuss their plan.”
I think Stefanski might have a pretty hard time earning the players' respect.
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Agreed. I don’t think the Bengals would do it. But Hicks is coming off a significant injury and Mack is unreal but worthless on a team not ready to contend. For another chance on a QB who on the surface is far more ready to contribute in a developed offense than Trubisky was
You want Nagy coaching him though?
With the Ohio background, I think Burrow is a shoo-in for the Bengals.
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Why Stefanski? Because every other coach in the league has too much integrity to accept the conditions that he did. Head football coaches like to run the show. Stefanski won’t .
Stefanski yielded to certain expectations of part-time chief strategy office Paul DePodesta, including having someone from the analytics group wearing a headset and having access to the coaching staff on game days. Stefanski also agreed to owner Jimmy Haslam’s desire to engage in hours-long meetings with his head coach the day after games.
Haslem and Podesta also expect the Stefanski to turn in game plans to the owner and analytics department by Friday, and then attend an end-of-week analytics meeting to discuss their plan.”
I think Stefanski might have a pretty hard time earning the players' respect.
What a damn mess
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You want Nagy coaching him though?
With the Ohio background, I think Burrow is a shoo-in for the Bengals.
He’s a no brainer for the Bengals and the chance to be a hero/legend if he has any early success.
I’d be fine if Nagy had him cause I think he’s a more finished product and his accuracy is very good. Nagy couldn’t call or strategize a good run game or balance. He had no issue getting WRs open, Trubisky would just miss them or flat out not see them.
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Poor MU82 ...
Luke Kuechly just announced he's retiring.
I'd be interested in 82's opinion on Luke's play this year. I only saw Carolina twice and he didn't seem to be quite the same guy as he had been. Don't know if it was injuries and just the accumulated hits that had finally caught up to him.
PFF shouldn't be taken as gospel, of course, but they had him as second team all-pro this year
First, I was stunned by the news. There was absolutely no hint of this during or after the season, and Kuechly talked at season's end about looking forward to 2020. He had two seasons left on a big contract (walking away from I think around $30M), and there was even early talk about an extension. He is a mega-star in Charlotte, and he had been healthy (to public knowledge) the last couple of seasons -- played in all 32 games.
All I can think is that some medical folks told him that, given his not-too-distant concussion past, he was taking some major risks every snap of the ball. Maybe there were new tests revealing a heightened risk. All I can do is speculate because he gave no real details and it seems so out of the blue.
As for his play ...
From his rookie year (2012) through the Super Bowl season (2015), he was one of the best players in football. Not just one of the best defensive players, but a true superstar. He hasn't been on that same level since the concussions surfaced in 2016, though he had a good comeback year in 2017.
The last two seasons, I've noticed that his play wasn't as dominant. He was a step slower to the football. He used to really be able to cover tight ends and RBs, but seemed to regularly be a step or two late the last couple of years. He was getting easier to block. I blamed some of that on the defensive line's inability to keep blockers off him, but it was obvious to me that he was simply less effective than he had been.
Me being a fan, I whined a little about him to my Panthers fan friends. "Any time Luke wants to earn that paycheck again, it would be all right with me." The Packers game this season, he had 1 solo tackle. "Remember Luke Kuechly?" I asked a friend. "He used to be good. Does he still play for the team?"
He had some good games, including a really good one pretty late in the season against Seattle, but he just wasn't what he was. Not consistently so, anyway.
So it kind of resonated with me when he said in his statement:
“There’s only one way to play this game since I was a little kid — to play fast, to play physical and to play strong, and at this point, I don’t know if I’m able to do that anymore and that’s the part that is the most difficult.”
Again, makes me think something's going on, that he got some kind of ominous report. A guy doesn't just wake up one morning and come to that conclusion.
I'm sad because he was so much fun to watch when he was great. If both he and Cam are gone (as well as Olsen and a few others), it's the end of a nice mini-era (if there is such a thing) here in Charlotte. But I'm actually happy for him because maybe he got out with minimal damage, and he'll have a long, happy, healthy, CTE-free life.
Panthers were going to be bad next season anyway. Maybe it's time to tank for Trevor!
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Hearing he's walking away, I can't help but think of the crying concussion.
I don't think I can blame anyone for walking away.
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Hearing he's walking away, I can't help but think of the crying concussion.
I don't think I can blame anyone for walking away.
Me either. I would never let my kid play football, that's for sure.
As for the crying concussion, that was effen scary. But it also was several years ago, and he played all 32 games the last 2 years.
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First, I was stunned by the news.
.......
Thanks for the reply, Mike. I figured you'd be pretty tuned in on this.
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This paragraph from the column written by the Charlotte newspaper's sports columnist, resonated with me:
If this is what Kuechly wants, more power to him. But his retirement calls into question the long-term survival of football, which in August saw the early retirement of Andrew Luck, another high-profile star, at age 29, due to him getting tired of always having to rehab one injury or another.
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Football will survive the retirement of Luck and Kuechly. Someone will step up and play.
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Football will survive the retirement of Luck and Kuechly. Someone will step up and play.
I tend to agree with this.
But more and more parents are pushing their kids to other sports. Participation in high school football has been declining for a decade.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/bobcook/2019/08/29/high-school-football-participation-is-on-a-decade-long-decline/#11e3781133de
Tackle football youth leagues are on the decline, too. Many opt for flag football up through middle school age, which I would say is an intelligent call.
It's an interesting topic. Not many people loved football more than Luke Kuechly did ... and he walked away from it at age 28. You're probably right that I shouldn't try to make a big-picture thing out of that, but I do still think about it.
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This paragraph from the column written by the Charlotte newspaper's sports columnist, resonated with me:
If this is what Kuechly wants, more power to him. But his retirement calls into question the long-term survival of football, which in August saw the early retirement of Andrew Luck, another high-profile star, at age 29, due to him getting tired of always having to rehab one injury or another.
Off the top of my head I can think of Jim Brown, Barry Sanders, Calvin Johnson, and Andrew Luck as guys retiring at the top of their games with seemingly several years of quality play left ahead of them. There are probably more that aren't coming to mind. But I think your'e right, this is going to become a trend, especially for guys that have made "set for life" type money by their late 20's (whatever that means for each individual). I think the typical career of even the best players might start to look more like running backs, where they're done by 28/29 (except voluntarily). Not necessarily a bad thing, and probably very smart.
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Football will survive the retirement of Luck and Kuechly. Someone will step up and play.
Yep. Next man up.
And there's no shortage young, athletic men willing to put their bodies on the line for an NFL career and all that comes with it.
Let's keep in mind that for every Andrew Luck and Luke Kuechly, there's a Tom Brady, Frank Gore, Thomas Davis and Larry Fitzgerald playing into their late 30s and beyond.
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Yep. Next man up.
And there's no shortage young, athletic men willing to put their bodies on the line for an NFL career and all that comes with it.
Let's keep in mind that for every Andrew Luck and Luke Kuechly, there's a Tom Brady, Frank Gore, Thomas Davis and Larry Fitzgerald playing into their late 30s and beyond.
Fitzgerald re-upping for another year.
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Panthers new OC, Joe Brady, is 30.
He is 37 years younger than their previous OC (Norv Turner) and 5 months younger than Cam Newton.
So I can't accuse the Panthers of refusing to accept "young ideas" going forward!
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Drew Pearson....one of my childhood idols. Remains the ONLY player on the 1970's All Decade team not inducted. Snubbed again today.
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Poor MU82 ...
Luke Kuechly just announced he's retiring.
Tough blow for MyPantherstm.
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Drew Pearson....one of my childhood idols. Remains the ONLY player on the 1970's All Decade team not inducted. Snubbed again today.
I don't understand Carmichael before Pearson.
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I don't understand Carmichael before Pearson.
From a pure numbers standpoint, I get it. More catches, more yards, more TDs, more Pro Bowls. And Charmichael never had the luxury of a HOF quarterback throwing to him.
I'd take Cliff Branch over either of them, tbh.
But I don't think any of the three have a particularly strong case for the HOF.
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From a pure numbers standpoint, I get it. More catches, more yards, more TDs, more Pro Bowls. And Charmichael never had the luxury of a HOF quarterback throwing to him.
I'd take Cliff Branch over either of them, tbh.
But I don't think any of the three have a particularly strong case for the HOF.
Pretty hard to be on the all decade team and not in the HOF....only Pearson from 70’s is not.
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Pretty hard to be on the all decade team and not in the HOF....only Pearson from 70’s is not.
There are some from the 60s as well. Including Boyd Dowler at Flanker.
It's just very hard for receivers who came before the 80s because their numbers pale in comparison.
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Very happy that Winston Hill made it, one of the few Jets to truly be HOF-worthy. But at the same time, it is ridiculous that he had to die at 74 without getting in. Always wondered what took so long.
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It's just very hard for receivers who came before the 80s because their numbers pale in comparison.
Agree 100%.
Anybody who ever saw Paul Warfield play knows he was one of the greatest WRs ever to lace 'em up.
In 1973, he was first-team All-Pro, and deservedly so. He had 29 receptions.
He was an easy, obvious choice for the HoF even though he had fewer catches in his 13-year career than Michael Thomas has had the last 4 seasons.
Might as well be comparing apples to tire irons.
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Agree 100%.
Anybody who ever saw Paul Warfield play knows he was one of the greatest WRs ever to lace 'em up.
In 1973, he was first-team All-Pro, and deservedly so. He had 29 receptions.
He was an easy, obvious choice for the HoF even though he had fewer catches in his 13-year career than Michael Thomas has had the last 4 seasons.
Might as well be comparing apples to tire irons.
Exactly. A different era. When Marino threw for 5000 yards in 1984 is was an incredible accomplishment and nobody else was close to 4000. This past season 10 threw for over 4,000 yards (and Jimmy G missed by 22 yards). That season only one receiver had more than 90 receptions and four more with more than 80, this past season 19 had more than 80. Players should be judged by the era in which they played.
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There are some from the 60s as well. Including Boyd Dowler at Flanker.
It's just very hard for receivers who came before the 80s because their numbers pale in comparison.
Oh I get it for sure...rules were different, etc. In my mind it is hard to argue how he can be considered one of the receivers of a decade and not get in, especially with some of the other receivers that have made it.
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I picked San Fran to beat KC in the Super Bowl, so I'm sticking with those teams to win this week.
I think KC covers, breaking open a close game with some fireworks and then taking advantage of Tennessee being desperate to catch up. I think GB covers the 7 1/2 but won't quite get er done.
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Thrilled to see that McCaffrey, despite being healthy, has opted not to play in the Pro Bowl.
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Thrilled to see that McCaffrey, despite being healthy, has opted not to play in the Pro Bowl.
Can't believe he quit on his NFC teammates.
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Thrilled to see that McCaffrey, despite being healthy, has opted not to play in the Pro Bowl.
I hope they don’t pay the bonus.
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Youse guys is funny!
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Clemson RB Travis Etienne stunned NFL scouts by deciding to stay in school for his senior season.
I do not question his decision. He wants his degree; he wants to set an academic example for young people, especially those in his own family; he wants a shot at another national title.
Scouts were stunned because most RBs who are top-60 draft material want to get their careers started; RBs tend to have very short shelf lives, which can be made even shorter by being a college workhorse.
This decision IMHO does not make him any more "noble" than RBs who decide to leave school for the pros, but I am glad he followed his heart and chose to do what he felt was best for him. Obviously, I hope he gets all he wants out of his senior season. And I especially hope he stays injury-free.
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SAN FRANCISCO - Before their departure for California on Saturday afternoon, the Green Bay Packers added punter JK Scott to the injury report with an illness.
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SAN FRANCISCO - Before their departure for California on Saturday afternoon, the Green Bay Packers added punter JK Scott to the injury report with an illness.
Not good in a game where they need an awful lot to go right today. Almost as important as his punting is that he is the holder on FGs.
Packers don't have an open roster spot at the moment
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Not good in a game where they need an awful lot to go right today. Almost as important as his punting is that he is the holder on FGs.
Packers don't have an open roster spot at the moment
Definitely a concern for holding duties. His punting has stunk most of the year.
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Definitely a concern for holding duties. His punting has stunk most of the year.
Put what stock into this what you will, but PFF graded him as the 2nd best punter this year.
Outside of some lulls, he routinely flipped field position. Likely won GB the opening game.
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His punting has been just fine. Short but high and not returnable. He will be fine. Just a punter.
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Put what stock into this what you will, but PFF graded him as the 2nd best punter this year.
Outside of some lulls, he routinely flipped field position. Likely won GB the opening game.
I’ll put little stock in that. I watched him punt and while he had a strong start, his second half was horrible.
He had some pretty good stats from this year, and some terrible stats. On the whole, I stand by my original comment. Punting in GB means you better be able to handle weather after September/October.
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I think he’s been great this year.
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Go for it every 4th down and all 2 point conversions. Let’s get weird.
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I’ll put little stock in that. I watched him punt and while he had a strong start, his second half was horrible.
He had some pretty good stats from this year, and some terrible stats. On the whole, I stand by my original comment. Punting in GB means you better be able to handle weather after September/October.
He's been great the last few weeks. Was great at the start. Bad in the middle of the year.
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This Titans team has my complete respect. That was a hell of a drive.
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https://mobile.twitter.com/bingbong223/status/1219024502346010625?s=09
Lol the ref literally has his hand on the flag pre snap and throws it immediately at the snap...for holding. Incredible.
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https://mobile.twitter.com/bingbong223/status/1219024502346010625?s=09
Lol the ref literally has his hand on the flag pre snap and throws it immediately at the snap...for holding. Incredible.
Lot of comments saying that was for illegal formation. However, it was never announced, so who knows.
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Lot of comments saying that was for illegal formation. However, it was never announced, so who knows.
See attached screenshot at 8:15. 10 yard holding penalty.
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See attached screenshot at 8:15. 10 yard holding penalty.
There was another flag on the field for holding though, or at least that’s what I was reading
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Two flags thrown. One for illegal formation. It was picked up because the line judge mixed up who reported eligible.
Don’t pu attention to bad Twitter.
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Packers already again getting completely dominated at line. This one could get ugly again.
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This feels like blowout city coming.
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Packers would be better off just punting on 3rd down. Save some field position. It’s a guaranteed sack if it’s 3rd and more than 3.
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They are soooooo far off from competing for a title.
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See attached screenshot at 8:15. 10 yard holding penalty.
https://twitter.com/footballzebras/status/1219038043576918017?s=21
Do the Packers not see #31?
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No disrespect to the Packers, San Francisco is just on another level.
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It’s like LSU vs Grambling
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No disrespect to the Packers, San Francisco is just on another level.
I think it is more about the Packers having an inflated record because of the competition and squeeking out a bunch of wins. Packers are good, just that their 13-3 is not the same as other 13-3 records. Hairy Worthen and some of us discussed this a few weeks ago. You are what your record says it is because you cannot control your schedule, but that doesn’t mean equal records are equal considering whom one plays.
IMO.
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Ass kicking
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I think it is more about the Packers having an inflated record dispute to competition and squeezing out a bunch of wins. Packers are good, just that their 13-3 is not the same as other 13-3 records. Hairy Worthen and some of us discussed this a few weeks ago. You are what your record says it is because you cannot control your schedule, but that doesn’t mean equal records are equal considering whom one plays.
IMO.
Hey Cheeks said something smart and didn't derail a thread at the same time.
I call that a blue moon
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Hey Cheeks said something smart and didn't derail a thread at the same time.
I call that a blue moon
I do it all the time....I said the same thing a few weeks ago and people argued with it then. LOL.
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Reminds me of Crean vs Kansas, hey?
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Reminds me of Crean vs Kansas, hey?
Except he week before we beat #1 Kentucky badly....GBP struggled to beat Seattle at home.
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Somebody please tell the Packers that the game has started.
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Somebody please tell the Packers that the game has started.
Oh they know...they are what they are.
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Chiefs/Niners opens at Chiefs -1.5 with total at 51.5. I’m sprinting to Indiana to parlay Niners and the over.
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Chiefs/Niners opens at Chiefs -1.5 with total at 51.5. I’m sprinting to Indiana to bet parlay Niners and the over.
We have Mahomes under contract for another year, go Patrick!!!! Looking forward to Miami, should be a fun trip with a lot of hype.
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Rodgers not even bothering to try to recover that bad snap reminded me of Cam in SB50.
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Jimmy G 4/6 48 yards.
34-7.
Unreal
I truly thought Rodgers/Lafleur would be able to fix what ailed them weeks ago.
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I truly thought Rodgers/Lafleur would be able to fix what ailed them weeks ago.
Ha... Nojo has more adjustments then them
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At least GB won't be uncertain about their needs.
They only have 1 NFL caliber DL, MLBs are a hot mess (for a guy who plays 6-8 yards off the line of scrimmage, it's amazing how many times Martinez runs into the wrong hole looking for the RB), OL needs a C & RG, TE is another mess, and Adams is only WR.
That's all.
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there are just so many soft points on this team that years of bad drafting and awful roster management has brought on. They are going to have to be perfect in the draft in the next few years to make it to the Super Bowl.
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Jimmy G 4/6 48 yards.
34-7.
Unreal
I truly thought Rodgers/Lafleur would be able to fix what ailed them weeks ago.
Not without new linemen on both sides of the ball. There is no scheme to fix getting physically manhandled.
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there are just so many soft points on this team that years of bad drafting and awful roster management has brought on. They are going to have to be perfect in the draft in the next few years to make it to the Super Bowl.
Even when they drafted a slam dunk NFL player like Taysom Hill, McCarthy was clueless how to use him.
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Jimmy G 4/6 48 yards.
34-7.
Unreal
I truly thought Rodgers/Lafleur would be able to fix what ailed them weeks ago.
Barely beating Detroit twice, Carolina, Redskins, Bears, mauled by the Chargers, losing at home to the Eagles....is what it is. Can’t magically fix what isn’t there. They are good, but people been saying a long time they aren’t as good as the record.
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Even when they drafted a slam dunk NFL player like Taysom Hill, McCarthy was clueless how to use him.
But no one drafted taysom
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Tough end to a fun ride.
They still went 6-0 in the NFC North. I don’t think they are a great team, but I think they were top 4 in the NFC.
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At least GB won't be uncertain about their needs.
They only have 1 NFL caliber DL, MLBs are a hot mess (for a guy who plays 6-8 yards off the line of scrimmage, it's amazing how many times Martinez runs into the wrong hole looking for the RB), OL needs a C & RG, TE is another mess, and Adams is only WR.
That's all.
They get to play a first place schedule next year, plus AFC South including Titans and Texans.
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Even when they drafted a slam dunk NFL player like Taysom Hill, McCarthy was clueless how to use him.
If he was a slam dunk NFL Player why was he UNDRAFTED By 32 teams?
Meaning, he wasn’t drafted, he was a free agent and since every team passed him over that suggests most teams wouldn’t have used him at all.
LOL. Good Lord
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All 37 points scored by the Niners tonight were courtesy of former Bears.
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Rodgers isn’t close to elite anymore. He had as much to do with their humiliation tonight as their putridly soft defense. Thanks Thompson for botching roster all of his prime years, they are long gone. He flashes the old Rodgers, sometimes, but is clearly not even close to level of play he once was.
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All 37 points scored by the Niners tonight were courtesy of former Bears.
Always thought cutting Gould was dumb.
But mostert? He was on 6? 7? Different teams prior to San Fran. And it took injuries to 3 backs before he got his chance. He's taking advantage, but let's not act like the bears let a HOF'er slip through their fingers.
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For anyone ready to argue about Rodgers 2nd half performance proving he’s still got it, he had a qbr of 52 in the first half. One half of good football and one awful half, won’t cut it in a title game. Not even close. Even in the 2nd half, missed a 2pt conversion throw he used to make in his sleep.
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All 37 points scored by the Niners tonight were courtesy of former Bears.
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He's taking advantage, but let's not act like the bears let a HOF'er slip through their fingers.
Yeah ... nobody is acting like that.
Just an unusual twist to today's game.
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Yeah ... nobody is acting like that.
Just an unusual twist to today's game.
Speak for yourself. I am counting this as a Bears Super Bowl.
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Yeah ... nobody is acting like that.
Just an unusual twist to today's game.
Another odd twist- ex Browns, Ravens, and Dolphins accounted for 24 Niner points tonight. Lots of teams crashing your former Bears party ::)
I guess when Bears have been your team, it’s all you really have for bragging.
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NFL teams spend millions upon millions of dollars on scouting. They analyze and re-analyze and re-re-analyze. So it's always amazing to me when a story like Raheem Mostert happens.
Here's a 27-year-old RB who had been cut by 6 teams and who never has started an NFL game. Yet now, after running for 220 yards in the NFC title game, his teammates and coaches are talking about how great he is, how quickly he hits holes, how much his speed is underestimated, etc.
Now, some of the holes he ran through Sunday was so big that a few Scoopers might have gotten TDs, too. Or at least the elite athletes among us such as Ners.
But still ...
How could so many well-compensated NFL talent evaluators have been so wrong about Mostert for so long?
And before we give the 49ers a gold star for discovering him, let's remember that he had only 40 carries for them from 2016-18 before finally getting some run as Tevin Coleman's backup this season. Heck, Mostert had 11 games this season with 10 or fewer carries, including games of 0, 1 and 4 carries. The Niners underestimated him for years, too.
One of the many things I take from this is how good most guys on a major-league pro sports roster are.
Stories like Mostert are the exception, not the norm. Still, there are enough stories like his -- not only in the NFL, but also in the NBA, NHL and MLB -- to make me believe that many of these barely-on-a-roster guys just need an opportunity.
For many of them, there is a very fine line between being cut and being a major contributor.
I don't know Mostert and I never will, but I still am genuinely happy for his success. It must have taken great belief in himself, perseverance and hard work for him to get to this point.
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Like Porter Moser taking Loyola to a final four.
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I guess when Bears have been your team, it’s all you really have for bragging.
It was a joke/odd fact. Good lord.
Stories like Mostert are the exception, not the norm. Still, there are enough stories like his -- not only in the NFL, but also in the NBA, NHL and MLB -- to make me believe that many of these barely-on-a-roster guys just need an opportunity.
For many of them, there is a very fine line between being cut and being a major contributor.
You can scout and scout, but there is no way to analyze when a player has made tons of speed/strength/football IQ gains during training, until they get out there. Especially when you have such a physically demanding sport, its not crazy to think what leaps someone can take when they are training/focusing full time post-college.
I think many people, especially with football, take for granted how important team "fit" is. Whether it be a scheme, or a mindset, or a patient coach/FO, its huge. Especially for someone that isn't already a world beater. You see it often in soccer. A mega talent on the rise scoring tons of goals, or defending super well, transfers to a new club and becomes a non factor or flat out bad. Cause the fit, the scheme, etc... is just wrong. The difference is in soccer they often transfer out soon after to a new club or league and can get back on track. In the NFL, that can mean the end of a career sometimes as you become a nobody for the remainder of your contract as you fall behind.
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From social media last night
Rodgers record on the road 50-49, Tom Brady is 102-48. Rodgers one more loss in 50 fewer games.
Aaron Rodgers 3X champion to poor kids in Africa and Haiti
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From social media last night
Rodgers record on the road 50-49, Tom Brady is 102-48. Rodgers one more loss in 50 fewer games.
Aaron Rodgers 3X champion to poor kids in Africa and Haiti
About 60 games at the Bills, Jets, and Dolphins might slightly affect the numbers. I would bet those teams combined might have been over .500 maybe 1/3 of the time at best.
Wouldn't surprise me if 40 of those wins were against those 3 teams.
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Jockey
Rodgers has feasted on some bad Lion and Bear teams over his career. In addition, Brady has played a first place schedule for a very long time. Sadly, Rodgers road record, especially against good teams, is not very good.
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From social media last night
Rodgers record on the road 50-49, Tom Brady is 102-48. Rodgers one more loss in 50 fewer games.
Aaron Rodgers 3X champion to poor kids in Africa and Haiti
Wins is not a QB stat.
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Jockey
Rodgers has feasted on some bad Lion and Bear teams over his career. In addition, Brady has played a first place schedule for a very long time. Sadly, Rodgers road record, especially against good teams, is not very good.
Goose,
I agree - mostly. The majority of years since Brady was in the league, GB has also played a 1st place schedule, though. It is also undeniable that Brady has played most years with a better 'D'.
Your point is well taken, however.
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Goose,
I agree - mostly. The majority of years since Brady was in the league, GB has also played a 1st place schedule, though. It is also undeniable that Brady has played most years with a better 'D'.
Your point is well taken, however.
And a coach who is a million times the coach Rodgers has ever played for.
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NFL teams spend millions upon millions of dollars on scouting. They analyze and re-analyze and re-re-analyze. So it's always amazing to me when a story like Raheem Mostert happens.
Here's a 27-year-old RB who had been cut by 6 teams and who never has started an NFL game. Yet now, after running for 220 yards in the NFC title game, his teammates and coaches are talking about how great he is, how quickly he hits holes, how much his speed is underestimated, etc.
Now, some of the holes he ran through Sunday was so big that a few Scoopers might have gotten TDs, too. Or at least the elite athletes among us such as Ners.
But still ...
How could so many well-compensated NFL talent evaluators have been so wrong about Mostert for so long?
And before we give the 49ers a gold star for discovering him, let's remember that he had only 40 carries for them from 2016-18 before finally getting some run as Tevin Coleman's backup this season. Heck, Mostert had 11 games this season with 10 or fewer carries, including games of 0, 1 and 4 carries. The Niners underestimated him for years, too.
One of the many things I take from this is how good most guys on a major-league pro sports roster are.
Stories like Mostert are the exception, not the norm. Still, there are enough stories like his -- not only in the NFL, but also in the NBA, NHL and MLB -- to make me believe that many of these barely-on-a-roster guys just need an opportunity.
For many of them, there is a very fine line between being cut and being a major contributor.
I don't know Mostert and I never will, but I still am genuinely happy for his success. It must have taken great belief in himself, perseverance and hard work for him to get to this point.
Running backs are an interesting discussion. I think there's a few "elite" ones out there. Well worth the paycheck. But I think Pats/Belicheck show another way. IF your OLine opens holes, just about any rosterable RB in the NFL has enough size/speed/agility to be productive behind an above-average Oline, as long as the RB understands the scheme. THat's how I think Mostert has been able to succeed this season.
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Eli Manning is retiring.
Let the Hall of Fame debate commence.
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Eli Manning is retiring.
Let the Hall of Fame debate commence.
Can’t spell Elite without the E-L-I.
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Eli Manning is retiring.
Let the Hall of Fame debate commence.
Top 10 all-time in passing yards and TDs. Top 10 in most 4th quarter comebacks. 2 SB MVPs and rings, including beating the "best" team since the 72 Dolphins. That will overcome a lack of All-Pro or Pro Bowl nods that resulted from him playing at the same time as 3 Top-10 all time QBs (Brees, Brady, and his big bro). It wont be unanimous or first ballot, but I'm pretty confident he gets in.
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Eli Manning is retiring.
Let the Hall of Fame debate commence.
Stone cold lock....seeing him next week in Miami...very happy for him.
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CTE.....a different less hyped perspective
https://www.stripes.com/sports/sports-perspectives/the-selling-of-cte-how-the-concussion-doctor-has-built-a-career-on-distorted-science-1.615744
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So Antonio Brown DEFINITELY has CTE right?
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So Antonio Brown DEFINITELY has CTE right?
We should be better than this. Could he? Sure. But let's not just write all bad behavior off with that narrative. He clearly needs help one way or another.
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We should be better than this. Could he? Sure. But let's not just write all bad behavior off with that narrative. He clearly needs help one way or another.
Agreed. He had character/personality concerns when he was coming out of CMU. And he was at CMU cause he got expelled from FIU for legal issues. So he very well has CTE and it’s not making things any better, but it’s surely not the sole issue
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Top 10 all-time in passing yards and TDs. Top 10 in most 4th quarter comebacks. 2 SB MVPs and rings, including beating the "best" team since the 72 Dolphins. That will overcome a lack of All-Pro or Pro Bowl nods that resulted from him playing at the same time as 3 Top-10 all time QBs (Brees, Brady, and his big bro). It wont be unanimous or first ballot, but I'm pretty confident he gets in.
I'm pretty confident he gets in. I'm also pretty confident he doesn't deserve to.
In this era of super-efficient quarterbacks, he just isn't one. Tied with Joe Flacco for 45th all time. Career record of 117-117. Outside of the two Super Bowl runs, was 0-4 as a playoff starter. Yes, they only made the playoffs six times during his tenure.
Eli is an above average quarterback who had two magical runs in the playoffs. That and playing in New York will get him in. But I would never consider him one of the top quarterbacks of his generation.
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I agree with this. He had two completely flukish runs, and otherwise was pedestrian or below. But, as you said, that will probably be enough to get him in.
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It won't "bother" me one iota if he gets in, and I think he will. But I would consider him a fringe candidate if I were a voter. NFL has a very bizarre HoF process.
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LOL..
https://twitter.com/James_Holzhauer/status/1222314038274772992?s=20
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About 60 games at the Bills, Jets, and Dolphins might slightly affect the numbers. I would bet those teams combined might have been over .500 maybe 1/3 of the time at best.
Wouldn't surprise me if 40 of those wins were against those 3 teams.
https://patriotsdynasty.info/blog/2019/01-02/myth-easy-afc-east-definitive-guide
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We should be better than this. Could he? Sure. But let's not just write all bad behavior off with that narrative. He clearly needs help one way or another.
Someone tracked all of his crazy behavior to 2 weeks after getting rocked in a game.
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Any of you guys watch the Aaron Hernandez Netflix documentary? Seemed to be fair? Anyone notice if there were slanted points of view from what they had heard or read from other sources?
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Greg Olsen and the Panthers have agreed to "mutually part ways."
Olsen apparently doesn't want to be part of a rebuilding project, and I don't blame him. He has battled injuries the last couple years and is a hot commodity for the broadcast booth, though he has left open the door to playing for another team.
Acquired in probably the greatest trade in Charlotte sports history - thanks, Bears! - Olsen was a hell of a tight end. He also has been a very, very charitable guy in the Charlotte community. He will be missed.
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Does anyone actually care about the Superbowl this year? No one to hate. No controversy. It seems like all of the 'hype' is pro forma because it is the Superbowl and this is what is done. Not because it is actually inspiring passion. Or is it just me?
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Does anyone actually care about the Superbowl this year? No one to hate. No controversy. It seems like all of the 'hype' is pro forma because it is the Superbowl and this is what is done. Not because it is actually inspiring passion. Or is it just me?
The only Super Bowl I have "cared" about in the last 35 years was the one 4 years ago in which my Panthers faced (and, sadly, lost to) Denver.
I did pull against the Patriots the last many times they were in it, but I didn't really "care."
For most of those who are not fans of one of the combatants, the SB is the Annual Festival of American Capitalism, in which the commercials and halftime show are the real stars.
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And it should be held on Saturday to really maximize the party.
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And it should be held on Saturday to really maximize the party.
I like that idea ... though the NFL is (primarily) a Sunday experience.
Oh, and back to the earlier comment, let me amend ...
Lots of gamblers care deeply about tomorrow's game even if they don't care about either team.
Also, I have to admit that while I don't really care about who wins, I think it will be interesting to see the SF defense go up against a freakly talented QB in Mahomes. If the game ends up being close, I could see me starting to care in the 4th quarter, and probably rooting for Mahomes and Reid even though I picked (but didn't bet on) the Niners.
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https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2020/02/04/new-cal-study-finds-washington-nickname-much-more-offensive-than-previous-surveys-suggested/
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And it should be held on Saturday to really maximize the party.
They'll never do that because Saturday night is the night the host city rakes in the money from Super Bowl visitors. Take that night away would cost the host city a lot of money, I think. I'd prefer it be on Saturday, but it would be better on Sunday if they pushed up the kick-off 2 or 3 hours.
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https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2020/02/04/new-cal-study-finds-washington-nickname-much-more-offensive-than-previous-surveys-suggested/
Florio and Berkeley.....a bond that really should be permanent.
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Florio and Berkeley.....a bond that really should be permanent.
Congrats on another banning Hoopaloop!
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Florio and Berkeley.....a bond that really should be permanent.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem
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I hope they drop the name Washington....super offensive....he owned slaves.
Then Mike Florio and publications refusing to use Redskins name can reports scores as follows
Dallas Cowboys 34, ________________ 17
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I hope they drop the name Washington....super offensive....he owned slaves.
Then Mike Florio and publications refusing to use Redskins name can reports scores as follows
Dallas Cowboys 34, ________________ 17
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_absurdum
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Kansas City Chiefs visiting the White House soon it was reported today in our media.
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Kansas City Chiefs visiting the White House soon it was reported today in our media.
Out in Seattle?
-
Out in Seattle?
Next week (potentially) in the District of Columbia....1600 Pennsylvania Ave is where the visit is supposed to take place. Andy Reid and others will be there.
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Next week (potentially) in the District of Columbia....1600 Pennsylvania Ave is where the visit is supposed to take place. Andy Reid and others will be there.
We sure? I heard the Super Bowl winning KC Chiefs of Kansas were looking into visiting the President of the US Virgin Islands in the state of Washington.
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Will there be Arby's?
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Next week (potentially) in the District of Columbia....1600 Pennsylvania Ave is where the visit is supposed to take place. Andy Reid and others will be there.
WHOOSH
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We sure? I heard the Super Bowl winning KC Chiefs of Kansas were looking into visiting the President of the US Virgin Islands in the state of Washington.
Nope...I’m sure...read it in our media so I know it is 100% true.
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New proposed CBA includes third wild card team in each conference. One bye per conference.
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https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/greg-robinson-arrested-for-allegedly-possessing-157-pounds-of-marijuana-could-face-up-to-20-years-in-prison/
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https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/greg-robinson-arrested-for-allegedly-possessing-157-pounds-of-marijuana-could-face-up-to-20-years-in-prison/
(http://www.quickmeme.com/img/0c/0c2ec43d5506abecf75e4808264c86b7532e7f9bba4870fb7f7b33247805f07d.jpg)
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https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/greg-robinson-arrested-for-allegedly-possessing-157-pounds-of-marijuana-could-face-up-to-20-years-in-prison/
A reasonable amount to keep on hand for personal use. Sometimes friends stop by the crib, you know?
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A reasonable amount to keep on hand for personal use. Sometimes friends stop by the crib, you know?
Made a stop in Rockford yesterday on my way back to WI. While i was there, the fedex freight semi delivered 2 full pallets of product to the shop. 3-5 security guards with the truck and the driver. What a world!
Meanwhile these 2 asshats are doing stupid chit like this.
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just saw on ESPN website, but did not listen(it was a video) on whether or not the packers should trade for OBJ...NO!
there's got to be others with talent sans the team disruptions, the pack can pick up to help out davante
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I would be fine with OBJ.
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I would be fine with OBJ.
Andre Rison had a good run here.
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Andre Rison had a good run here.
Reminds me of the chance to get Moss at the end of Favre’s career.
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I would be fine with OBJ.
He's still only 27 and he wasn't at all the problem in Cleveland last year. He's a diva and can be petulant, like most star WRs, but in a competent offense with a good QB (which he hasn't had since maybe his 2nd/3rd year), he's as big a weapon as you can get.
If they Packers can get him, they'd be silly not to create the best WR tandem in the NFL.
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Andre Rison had a good run here.
we had reggie to keep him in line
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I don't think Reggie had anything to do with it. I think players like Rison...and Moss...and likely OBJ...adapt to a professional environment. Especially when they could be running out of chances.
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I don't think Reggie had anything to do with it. I think players like Rison...and Moss...and likely OBJ...adapt to a professional environment. Especially when they could be running out of chances.
This exactly. Its why the bad boys work in New England, generally.
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Big day for the Packers as Kirk Cousins signs a 2 year extension.
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Big day for the Packers as Kirk Cousins signs a 2 year extension.
Great deal. I would have gone for the lifetime contract route, but glad they were able to lock him down.
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Packers pick up Right Tackle Ricky Wagner, cut from the Lions on Friday. West Allis proud.
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Great deal. I would have gone for the lifetime contract route, but glad they were able to lock him down.
I mean, he's no Jay Cutler, but he's the next best thing.
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Bill O’Brien might need a test of some sort. Hopkins for David Johnson? A few picks involved too, but this seems ridiculous. Is Hopkins’ shoulder messed up?
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Bears signing Bridgewater.
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Bill O’Brien might need a test of some sort. Hopkins for David Johnson? A few picks involved too, but this seems ridiculous. Is Hopkins’ shoulder messed up?
Absent Hopkins injury news, Cardinals absolutely fleeced them. Incredible. A 28 year old RB who has only played the full season twice in the last 4 years PLUS a pick, for a top 5 WR in his prime.
Bears signing Bridgewater.
Oh my, could this be the first good Bears news in months? I was already expecting them to miss out on Hooper
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Bears signing Bridgewater.
Maybe not.
Michael Lombardi @mlombardiNFL
Hearing from a source Bears trying to get involved with trading for Nick Foles. Bears are all over this QB market.
Adam Caplan @caplannfl
And from hearing from a few teams and other sources, Teddy Bridgewater is not expected to sign with them even if they don't get Foles.
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Maybe not.
Michael Lombardi @mlombardiNFL
Hearing from a source Bears trying to get involved with trading for Nick Foles. Bears are all over this QB market.
Adam Caplan @caplannfl
And from hearing from a few teams and other sources, Teddy Bridgewater is not expected to sign with them even if they don't get Foles.
It seems like the Bears have a plan of no plan other than throwing out any names that might stick.
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It seems like the Bears have a plan of no plan other than throwing out any names that might stick.
As a Bears fans, how do you feel about them choosing Trevathan over Kwiatkowski? As a Raiders fan, I'm excited about them signing the latter (assuming terms are reasonable).
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As a Bears fans, how do you feel about them choosing Trevathan over Kwiatkowski? As a Raiders fan, I'm excited about them signing the latter (assuming terms are reasonable).
That's a really good and under the radar question. I thought Kwiatkowski was outstanding last year, and I didn't think his play was necessarily a byproduct of the guys around him freeing him up, the dude made plays. I think the Bears probably knew coming off injury, they could get better financial terms with Trevathan, that's my hunch. They couldn't afford to keep both, and Kwiatkowski earned his contract. I'm happy for him, seems like a good guy, and doesn't take plays off.
We'll see how the financials play out, but that looks like a really good signing.
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For some odd reason, Bears gift wrap two years, $9 mil guaranteed to Jimmy Graham.
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For some odd reason, Bears gift wrap two years, $9 mil guaranteed to Jimmy Graham.
Thank you, Mr. Pace.
From a happy Packer fan.
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Yesterday I was hoping for Austin Hooper. That vanished this morning, but then I got the Teddy B news. Made me irrationally excited for the Bears making positive moves.
Now, 12 hours later, that’s transitioned to a washed up Jimmy Graham and likely wasting assets on a trade for Andy Dalton. Pace is off the rails
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Stefon Diggs and. 7th to Buffalo for a 1st, 4th, 5th and 6th.
Vikings arguably got more for Diggs than Houston did for Hopkins.
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Stefon Diggs and. 7th to Buffalo for a 1st, 4th, 5th and 6th.
Vikings arguably got more for Diggs than Houston did for Hopkins.
I don’t think it’s close to arguable. That’s a fantastic haul
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Stefon Diggs and. 7th to Buffalo for a 1st, 4th, 5th and 6th.
Vikings arguably got more for Diggs than Houston did for Hopkins.
Buffalo must think they are getting Herschel Walker.
And the Bears foolish spend a lot of money on the corpse of Jimmy Graham.
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Bears miss out on Bridgewater and instead spend $70MM on more pass rush. Good grief.
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Bears miss out on Bridgewater and instead spend $70MM on more pass rush. Good grief.
Virginia can't take it with her, aina?
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Bears miss out on Bridgewater and instead spend $70MM on more pass rush. Good grief.
Floyd and Daniel done. Bring on Cam!
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Floyd and Daniel done. Bring on Cam!
Didn't you hear? Teams are better off without Cam.
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Floyd and Daniel done. Bring on Cam!
Nah, they are gonna give up a 2nd and a 3rd, or something equally stupid, for Dalton. I can sense it
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I think the decision on Floyd ultimately will be a good one. He's not a bad player, but he was never really a good fit. I don't love giving Quinn that much at age 29, I don't know what the real look of the contract is other than the numbers out there 5/70/30 guaranteed. That $30...yeeshh, no bueno.
I'm cool with Quinn lining up in that defense, I think he'll be very good there, I just don't see how this addresses the Bears biggest needs (everywhere on offense, safety).
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Foles to Chicago.
Hate the move.
Lots of money. Gave up draft capital that they are woefully short on.
I suppose I'm happy that Pace/Nagy finally publicly admit Mitch is a bust.
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Foles to Chicago.
Hate the move.
Lots of money. Gave up draft capital that they are woefully short on.
I suppose I'm happy that Pace/Nagy finally publicly admit Mitch is a bust.
If it was a 2021 4th rounder, I'd be much happier. However, I'm ok with the deal for the following:
-Restructured his deal. The Jags have to eat the signing bonus. Its 3 years/$50M, roughly $17MM a year which is basically half the price that the Titans signed Tannehill for. Hell, Philip Rivers' arm looks shot and the Colts just gave him $25MM a year. It the current market, its actually a really nice price. $21MM guaranteed isn't that much for a starting QB for potentially 3 years.
-Foles had an awful 2019, but he's VERY comfortable in the scheme and system Nagy comes from.
-This, more than Dalton or Mariota, says Mitch is not the guy. Which is great.
All these considered, I'm fairly content. MUCH happier than the Graham BS.
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I’m hearing a lot of concern that the NFL season won’t kick off on time. Worries that mini and training camps aren’t going to start on time and teams won’t be prepared. Super Bowl might move to March.
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I’m hearing a lot of concern that the NFL season won’t kick off on time. Worries that mini and training camps aren’t going to start on time and teams won’t be prepared. Super Bowl might move to March.
If true would baseball 2020 be cancelled?
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If true would baseball 2020 be cancelled?
I don’t know about that.
Teams want a full season but also want to get enough work in. Right now half the teams can’t even get their full team together without breaking state guidelines.
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Though the Panthers are sending mixed signals about exactly what they want to be next season -- a rebuilding team or a fringe contender -- I liked their signing of Robby Anderson, the best WR left on the FA market.
For that matter, I have liked most of their signings, including Bridgewater, a solid LT to protect him, and a couple good LBs.
Their moves do not reflect a team that will be tanking for a top-3 draft pick. Nor do they reflect a team that can seriously contend in a division with the Saints, Falcons and, now, Tom Brady.
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Though the Panthers are sending mixed signals about exactly what they want to be next season -- a rebuilding team or a fringe contender -- I liked their signing of Robby Anderson, the best WR left on the FA market.
For that matter, I have liked most of their signings, including Bridgewater, a solid LT to protect him, and a couple good LBs.
Their moves do not reflect a team that will be tanking for a top-3 draft pick. Nor do they reflect a team that can seriously contend in a division with the Saints, Falcons and, now, Tom Brady.
What are your thoughts on Funchess as a player? He's immediately the Packers #2 WR, but I think that says more about the state of the Packers WRs than it does about Funchess. Big body, still young, haven't seen the numbers so can't say if I love or hate the contract, but I like adding him as a Packers fan. I would like it if the Packers would add some diversity to their WR group. Beyond Davante, they have a bunch of big bodies who would seem to be best winning their 1 on 1 matchups with their physical tools. I'd like to see one or two smaller, shiftier WRs, like what Cobb once was for the Packers.
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What are your thoughts on Funchess as a player? He's immediately the Packers #2 WR, but I think that says more about the state of the Packers WRs than it does about Funchess. Big body, still young, haven't seen the numbers so can't say if I love or hate the contract, but I like adding him as a Packers fan. I would like it if the Packers would add some diversity to their WR group. Beyond Davante, they have a bunch of big bodies who would seem to be best winning their 1 on 1 matchups with their physical tools. I'd like to see one or two smaller, shiftier WRs, like what Cobb once was for the Packers.
After a very promising start to his Panthers career, Funchess was quite bad most of his last 2 seasons. Dropped a lot of passes, had trouble getting separation, seemed quite disinterested at times, got into it with teammates and coaches, etc.
Maybe it was the pressure of being crowned the No. 1 WR after Benjamin was dumped. Maybe not having that pressure with the Packers, combined with having Rodgers throwing to him will inspire him to a career year for y'all. Stranger things have happened.
I'll certainly be interested in seeing how he does. But as we sit here today, I know I wouldn't trade any of the Panthers' top 3 receivers for him.
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What are your thoughts on Funchess as a player? He's immediately the Packers #2 WR, but I think that says more about the state of the Packers WRs than it does about Funchess. Big body, still young, haven't seen the numbers so can't say if I love or hate the contract, but I like adding him as a Packers fan. I would like it if the Packers would add some diversity to their WR group. Beyond Davante, they have a bunch of big bodies who would seem to be best winning their 1 on 1 matchups with their physical tools. I'd like to see one or two smaller, shiftier WRs, like what Cobb once was for the Packers.
Trade up for Ruggs or trade back for Reagor. Maybe stand pat for Justin Jefferson, see if he falls. Probably best to trade back in this draft and take 2.
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Also wouldn't say Funchess is the Packers #2. He profiles similarly to Lazard, and at this point they're probably on par with one another.
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I was always suprised that Funchess didn't try to put on a couple of pounds, work on his blocking, and become a WR/TE tweener. He doesn't really have the pure speed to find a home as a WR in today's NFL, but he also doesn't give up more than an inch and maybe ten pounds to any of the top pass catching TEs like Austin Hooper, Eric Ebron, Darren Waller, or George Kittle.
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Bears now saying there will be open competition between Mitch and Foles.
Should be fun!
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Bears now saying there will be open competition between Mitch and Foles.
Should be fun!
Ryan Pace ... what are you doing???
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Bears now saying there will be open competition between Mitch and Foles.
Should be fun!
If you have 2 quarterbacks, you have none.
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If you have 2 quarterbacks, you have none.
The Bears and their half century plus quarterback soap opera is such fun stuff.
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Rick Morrissey in the Sun-Times:
"Pace has been social distancing himself from the media for more than five years, so if he catches the virus, he can’t blame us."
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What is Houston doing?
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What is Houston doing?
Trying to outdo the Bears for number of draft picks traded?
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Trying to outdo the Bears for number of draft picks traded?
Bears got Mack.
Texans got Cooks (after trading away a much better Hopkins)
Unless you were talking about Trubisky. In which case... :-\
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The jets signed kaep. 1/$9m.
Source: Barry Mccockiner
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The jets signed kaep. 1/$9m.
Source: Barry Mccockiner
Super bowl champs!!!
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The jets signed kaep. 1/$9m.
Source: Barry Mccockiner
What are you? 14 years old?
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What are you? 14 years old?
What are you, 80? It was a twitter prank that fooled legitimate news sources yesterday.
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RIP XFL v2.0
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What are you, 80? It was a twitter prank that fooled legitimate news sources yesterday.
Yup. Backed up by Haywood Jablome
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The jets signed kaep. 1/$9m.
Source: Barry Mccockiner
Honestly, if this lingers and it looks like we may lose football, wouldn't that be brilliant? Sign him, not pay him, get little of the blowback, and then let it fade away in 2021.
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RIP XFL v2.0
No idea what their financial situation was like, but if it was less than ideal, what ideal cover to cut their losses and save face by blaming it on Da Rona
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The Panthers just made Christian McCaffrey highest-paid RB in NFL history, giving him a 4-year deal at $16M per.
https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/29030994/sources-panthers-make-christian-mccaffrey-nfl-highest-paid-rb
As a Panthers fan, I'm thrilled with this. He is a hell of a football player and is very good in the community.
Normally I'd be quite concerned in giving this kind of $$$ to a RB, but he is not your ordinary back. I have not seen many pass-catchers -- including WRs and TEs -- with better hands. He makes some amazing catches and constantly bails out his QB. He's also a gifted route-runner who could start at WR for most teams.
I do hope the Panthers reduce his between-the-tackles workload, though.
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The McCaffrey money is interesting. He's obviously a hybrid RB/WR. The analytics say if he was just a WR, his output is just below league average. His RB numbers are great. His touches last five years, including final two years at Stanford, avg 320 touches a year, which is no bueno going forward.
His collective value as a RB1/Wideout make him an exceptional talent and he should be highly compensated. I like that the Panthers got out in front of this, and paid him first from the 2017 RB class (Bears did something similar in paying Eddie Jackson this offseason from the 2017 draft class). I don't like the dollar amount, but I get the how/why of them doing it, if that makes sense.
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The McCaffrey money is interesting. He's obviously a hybrid RB/WR. The analytics say if he was just a WR, his output is just below league average. His RB numbers are great. His touches last five years, including final two years at Stanford, avg 320 touches a year, which is no bueno going forward.
His collective value as a RB1/Wideout make him an exceptional talent and he should be highly compensated. I like that the Panthers got out in front of this, and paid him first from the 2017 RB class (Bears did something similar in paying Eddie Jackson this offseason from the 2017 draft class). I don't like the dollar amount, but I get the how/why of them doing it, if that makes sense.
I get ya. That's a lot of touches and a lot of money. Even as I cheer him on these next few years, I'll have my fingers crossed.
I also justify it by appreciating that he was one of the most underpaid players in the league before this.
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I get ya. That's a lot of touches and a lot of money. Even as I cheer him on these next few years, I'll have my fingers crossed.
I also justify it by appreciating that he was one of the most underpaid players in the league before this.
Yeah, there's no way to get around the fact that he severely outperformed his rookie deal, and will probably be overpaid on his new paper. Obviously that's not a McCaffrey/Panthers solo issue.
I haven't seen yet what the percentage of guaranteed money is, or if the new paper is an extension wrapped in after the fourth year and optional fifth year, I'd imagine that would be the case. Reckless speculation on my part is that McCaffrey will get $33 mil in guaranteed money, and the Panthers will have some type of out after the 2023 season.
I think the interesting part of this new paper is that in paying him more, idealistically, you'd want to utilize him less in the passing game. You want his touches to go down, even though his compensation is going up.
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Yeah, there's no way to get around the fact that he severely outperformed his rookie deal, and will probably be overpaid on his new paper. Obviously that's not a McCaffrey/Panthers solo issue.
I haven't seen yet what the percentage of guaranteed money is, or if the new paper is an extension wrapped in after the fourth year and optional fifth year, I'd imagine that would be the case. Reckless speculation on my part is that McCaffrey will get $33 mil in guaranteed money, and the Panthers will have some type of out after the 2023 season.
I think the interesting part of this new paper is that in paying him more, idealistically, you'd want to utilize him less in the passing game. You want his touches to go down, even though his compensation is going up.
I haven't seen what the guarantee is yet, either.
I actually think the fewer touches needs to come in the running game. He is SO valuable as a receiver and nobody on the roster can come close to replicating what he can do in that realm. Plus, just having him as a threat in the passing game makes the other receivers better.
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Jay Glazer did not cover himself with glory in using a player's COVID-19 to pump up ratings.
https://ftw.usatoday.com/2020/04/jay-glazer-big-breaking-news-reaction-coronavirus-brian-allen-nfl
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Jay Glazer did not cover himself with glory in using a player's COVID-19 to pump up ratings.
https://ftw.usatoday.com/2020/04/jay-glazer-big-breaking-news-reaction-coronavirus-brian-allen-nfl
I didn't bring it up here, cause I didn't know if it was just me, but what jackass Glazer was with this whole thing. Drumming up buzz, mystery, intrigue...and then drops one of the most inconsequential pieces of news Ive heard in awhile. No offense to Brian Allen, but he's largely a nobody within casual NFL ranks, a "who?!" to most fans. Glazer hyped it up like there were major ramifications or interest to his announcement, especially at a time where sports restarting was a hot topic. Douche.
Also loved Rappaport dropping the very next day the Von Miller news, an actual superstar that is newsworthy.
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I didn't bring it up here, cause I didn't know if it was just me, but what jackass Glazer was with this whole thing. Drumming up buzz, mystery, intrigue...and then drops one of the most inconsequential pieces of news Ive heard in awhile. No offense to Brian Allen, but he's largely a nobody within casual NFL ranks, a "who?!" to most fans. Glazer hyped it up like there were major ramifications or interest to his announcement, especially at a time where sports restarting was a hot topic. Douche.
Also loved Rappaport dropping the very next day the Von Miller news, an actual superstar that is newsworthy.
Sounds like you listened to The Score yesterday.
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Sounds like you listened to The Score yesterday.
No, shockingly I can come up with my own opinions and annoyances about sports topics without regurgitating the Score's trite nonsense.
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Gronk to Tampa Bay
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Ryan Pace should be sprinting to the phone to make a deal to get OJ Howard.
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Gronk to Tampa Bay
Good deal for both teams.
NE got a 4th for nothing - Gronk was never going back there.
TB gets a security blanket for Brady.
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Gronk to Tampa Bay
First reported by Leroy, the Insider Dog.
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Ryan Pace should be sprinting to the phone to make a deal to get OJ Howard.
Why? They've got Jimmy Graham!
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Why? They've got Jimmy Graham!
They should already list Graham on the injury report "Bruised Hip - Too much cash in wallet".
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NFL Draft tonight. Christmas of the NFL offseason (especially true for Packer fans during the Ted years). Going to be weird tonight - I expect there to be some shenanigans and panicking from the old men using technology for the first time. To say nothing of the cybersecurity risks! Hope no one is suspicious when Joe Burrow drops to Pick 23.
(https://media1.tenor.com/images/f9f5e091402a9fe0ce435580523255d2/tenor.gif)
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Whoever Detroit drafts will be wrong.
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NFL Draft tonight. Christmas of the NFL offseason (especially true for Packer fans during the Ted years). Going to be weird tonight - I expect there to be some shenanigans and panicking from the old men using technology for the first time. To say nothing of the cybersecurity risks! Hope no one is suspicious when Joe Burrow drops to Pick 23.
(https://media1.tenor.com/images/f9f5e091402a9fe0ce435580523255d2/tenor.gif)
Kind of excited to see if Big Cat and PFT make an appearance like they did on the Rules Committee call.
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Whoever Detroit drafts will be wrong.
Put some $ on Okudah at #3. Don't let me down, Detroit.
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We can only hope. Unless they trade down with Miami for 5 and 19.
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Going to be weird tonight - I expect there to be some shenanigans and panicking from the old men using technology for the first time. To say nothing of the cybersecurity risks! Hope no one is suspicious when Joe Burrow drops to Pick 23.
Or to the second round, where the Bears quickly draft him!
Not a chance, even if the Bears traded for Cincinnati's first rounder. No way the Bears would draft a really good quarterback!!!!!!
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Whoever Detroit drafts will be wrong.
As is tradition.
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The Burrow family room needs an upgrade. Those curtains are horrid.
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The Burrow family room needs an upgrade. Those curtains are horrid.
Lol. I yelled to wife about the terrible curtains.
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Gettleman wearing a mask sitting alone at his laptop... Does he think the guys can get it through Microsoft Teams?
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Cardinals early winners of the draft getting Simmons to fall.
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McCarthy with his first offense player drafted in the first round since 2011
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Can’t imagine Aaron’s going to be too happy
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As a Bears fan, I'm ecstatic the Pack traded up for Love.
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As a Bears fan, I'm ecstatic the Pack traded up for Love.
Sid Luckman agrees with you. ;D
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Soooo many thoughts...
Rodgers contract is untradeable until at least after the 2022 season. They're not going to eat $30+ mil this season or next season, so they can't cut him. They'll eventually cut Rodgers in 2023 and then wind up in a weird spot with Love in 2023. They'll then have one season, at age 25 for Love, to decide if they want to pick up his fifth year option, which is head scratching.
This is all outside the fact that I personally thought Love was at best a mid round pick. He wasn't bad in 2019...he was awful.
They gave up an asset to go get him, figuring some other team would make Love the first pick of Day 2.
If you're $40 million cap space committed to a player, and you use your first round pick to take his back up...ugh.
I'll die on this hot take, but that was an awful, awful selection.
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Couldn’t agree more. This was terrible. Packers manage to move farther away from super bowl caliber with first round pick.
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Sorry, adding more thoughts...
Let's say they play this out, and Rodgers is still good at the end of 2022, then what do the Packers do? You'd have Rodgers at what will then be a fantastic contract going into 2023.
I don't mind them going and getting a backup/rookie QB, but did Gutekunst not realize where Rodgers is on his deal?
Do they hope Love looks like Mahomes 2.0 in camp for a couple years and then try to trade him? If yes, why would they have wasted an additional 4th rounder now?
The window for the Packers is still rignt. damn. now. What are you doing???
The teams in between picks 26 and 30 were the Seahawks (Wilson), Ravens (Jackson), Titans (Tannenhill), none of those teams was taking Love. Unless they had some intel, or they got fleeced into thinking someone was trading up, none of those teams was taking Love.
I'm not killing this pick because it's the Packers, if the Bears did this, I'd be murdering them as well. This actually reminded me of the Trubisky pick, albeit the Packers did this at the back of the first round instead of the beginning like the Bears did.
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Soooo many thoughts...
Rodgers contract is untradeable until at least after the 2022 season. They're not going to eat $30+ mil this season or next season, so they can't cut him. They'll eventually cut Rodgers in 2023 and then wind up in a weird spot with Love in 2023. They'll then have one season, at age 25 for Love, to decide if they want to pick up his fifth year option, which is head scratching.
This is all outside the fact that I personally thought Love was at best a mid round pick. He wasn't bad in 2019...he was awful.
They gave up an asset to go get him, figuring some other team would make Love the first pick of Day 2.
If you're $40 million cap space committed to a player, and you use your first round pick to take his back up...ugh.
I'll die on this hot take, but that was an awful, awful selection.
I hope you're right, but being a Bears fan has conditioned me to feel like they just drafted a guy who will seamlessly replace Rodgers and tear up the Bears for another 10+ years, all while Chicago remains mired in QB purgatory.
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2019 1st round pick - no help.
2020 1st round pick - no help.
Why not draft a guy who can contribute to the team? The team has a lot of holes. Lots of guys who could have been starters next year.
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Dish, fantastic analysis. Thank you for your work.
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The SEC not only broke its own record but -- with 15 of the first 32 picks -- set a new mark for most first-round picks by a single conference in the history of the NFL Draft.
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Sorry, adding more thoughts...
Let's say they play this out, and Rodgers is still good at the end of 2022, then what do the Packers do? You'd have Rodgers at what will then be a fantastic contract going into 2023.
I don't mind them going and getting a backup/rookie QB, but did Gutekunst not realize where Rodgers is on his deal?
Do they hope Love looks like Mahomes 2.0 in camp for a couple years and then try to trade him? If yes, why would they have wasted an additional 4th rounder now?
The window for the Packers is still rignt. damn. now. What are you doing???
The teams in between picks 26 and 30 were the Seahawks (Wilson), Ravens (Jackson), Titans (Tannenhill), none of those teams was taking Love. Unless they had some intel, or they got fleeced into thinking someone was trading up, none of those teams was taking Love.
I'm not killing this pick because it's the Packers, if the Bears did this, I'd be murdering them as well. This actually reminded me of the Trubisky pick, albeit the Packers did this at the back of the first round instead of the beginning like the Bears did.
Rumor has it the Colts were trying to move up with Seattle at 27. Seattle and KC both said the trade-up lines died as soon as the trade happened. So if they wanted him, at least that part makes sense.
Now for the pick: What. The. F#CK. Let's be clear, a lot of people said that when Rodgers was drafted. I personally was meh until he came in when Favre got hurt against Dallas and while we lost, the kid could play. He wasn't Aaron Rodgers, but he could play. But when he was drafted, it made sense. He was a potential #1 pick from a big boy program who played big boy football, who just slid. Favre had openly mused about retirement for years. The knock on him was mechanics and the "Jeff Tedford" system that had produced vaunted NFL talents such as Trent Dilfer, Akili Smith and most recently at that point, Kyle Boller. McCarthy got him back when players were allowed to do offseason work and put him through the QB bootcamps.
With Love, the talent is there, but I'm not so sure it's mechanics so much as what's between the ears. He needs to have his mechanics reigned in, but his issues last year were decision making. They better be damn sure it's because he was trying to win them games, because the footage is not good. He has a beautiful deep ball, so it's a good thing the Packers seem to hate receivers that can run, but it really looked like he struggled to read defenses in the middle of the field and on out routes. Those things are correctable, and lord knows he'll have 3 years to correct them. But for all of those who say his ceiling is Mahomes, I look at his game and see Jay Cutler. Give the kid a chance, but man this feels like a missed opportunity. If the children are our future, then what the fck are we doing now?
Some comedic relief: the Pat McAfee (and AJ Hawk apparently) show had fake Mel Kiper on last night, who was a Packer fan.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1WyAtNBa_-o (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1WyAtNBa_-o)
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Sorry, adding more thoughts...
Let's say they play this out, and Rodgers is still good at the end of 2022, then what do the Packers do? You'd have Rodgers at what will then be a fantastic contract going into 2023.
I don't mind them going and getting a backup/rookie QB, but did Gutekunst not realize where Rodgers is on his deal?
Do they hope Love looks like Mahomes 2.0 in camp for a couple years and then try to trade him? If yes, why would they have wasted an additional 4th rounder now?
The window for the Packers is still rignt. damn. now. What are you doing???
The teams in between picks 26 and 30 were the Seahawks (Wilson), Ravens (Jackson), Titans (Tannenhill), none of those teams was taking Love. Unless they had some intel, or they got fleeced into thinking someone was trading up, none of those teams was taking Love.
I'm not killing this pick because it's the Packers, if the Bears did this, I'd be murdering them as well. This actually reminded me of the Trubisky pick, albeit the Packers did this at the back of the first round instead of the beginning like the Bears did.
Not crazy about the pick either because it doesn’t help them the next 3 to 5 years. Having said that we will have to see how it plays out. Many people were saying the same things when the Packers picked Rodgers, albeit a different set of circumstances.
This kid isn’t ready to play for at least two or three years anyway, Rodgers will be pushing 40 by then and there are already signs of decline in his game. I know you think Love was a mid round pick, but most actual experts had him as first round talent. I saw a couple of mocks with him going in the middle of the first round. He has the physical ability and huge upside, his decision making was poor at best last year, but he also had a coaching change and players change. Some of his problems are fixable. We will see how it plays out. For the near-term future bad. If the kid turns out to be a top tier quarterback then it’s a good pick in the long run.
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I wanted to sleep on it and play contrarian on this as well, and try to see why the Love pick makes sense.
Potentially, the Pack could walk away from Rodgers after 2021, it would be a fascinating roster maneuver to watch play out. Cutting Rodgers after 2021 would free up $40 million, but the Pack would carry a $17 mil dead cap hit against it. The good news is you'd have Love on his rookie deal, and they probably could make that happen. On the surface they don't have any egregious deals elsewhere that they'd have to eat going into 2022.
If the above happens, it makes much more sense. You then get much more time to decide on the fifth year option. I can understand why they wanted Love in the first to get the fifth year option, if (big if) they do the above scenario. If they play Rodgers three more years, that puts them in a really interesting spot for Love in year 4.
And maybe Love might be really good? There's definitely some Mahomes there. His "football athleticism" is off the charts. I think the problem is there's a lot of Winston there too, where Love just has a lot of trouble reading defenses, which will be much more difficult at the NFL level.
Finally, I can see where their draft board was set up with players there at 26-30, they weren't enamored with any of the safeties, wideouts, lineman for the value at those spots, and they thought the price of the 4th rounder made sense to secure their top player on their board. I personally don't like that philosophy, but I certainly get it.
Fascinating pick by the Pack, I still don't like the pick, if they would have moved up to Atlanta's spot and gotten Lamb, I'd have been very nervous for the rest of the NFC North (it would have cost them #30, their 2nd, and probably next years 3rd to do that).
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The Packers used a similar value pick on Rodgers back in 2005. The Packers were coming off a Wild Card playoff loss, and the time was ticking on Favre's career. The next year sucked, going 4-12 in Sherman's last year, but they were in the NFC Championship Game two year after that. And Rodgers had no impact in any of those years.
Moral of the story? It doesn't matter if their window is right now. Not every player has to be in that window. Let's see what happens the right of the draft and the rest of the off-season.
I have no idea if Love is the guy or not. I'm not smart enough to know if that's the case or not. But Rodgers has 2, maybe 3 years left in a Packers uniform in my opinion. If they feel *that* strongly about Love, it's not a terrible pick.
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The Packers used a similar value pick on Rodgers back in 2005. The Packers were coming off a Wild Card playoff loss, and the time was ticking on Favre's career. The next year sucked, going 4-12 in Sherman's last year, but they were in the NFC Championship Game two year after that. And Rodgers had no impact in any of those years.
Moral of the story? It doesn't matter if their window is right now. Not every player has to be in that window. Let's see what happens the right of the draft and the rest of the off-season.
I have no idea if Love is the guy or not. I'm not smart enough to know if that's the case or not. But Rodgers has 2, maybe 3 years left in a Packers uniform in my opinion. If they feel *that* strongly about Love, it's not a terrible pick.
I’m starting to wonder if he’s someone that wants to play into his 40s. Based on the concussions and collarbone injuries, he may one day announce retirement out of the blue.
I don’t think he’s distracted from football, but just wondering if he’s ready to move onto the next phase of his life.
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So, who won the Khalil Mack trade?
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I’m starting to wonder if he’s someone that wants to play into his 40s. Based on the concussions and collarbone injuries, he may one day announce retirement out of the blue.
I don’t think he’s distracted from football, but just wondering if he’s ready to move onto the next phase of his life.
He's also clearly on the decline. I have spent some of my quarantine time watching various games that have been uploaded to Youtube and it is very, very obvious that he isn't what he used to be. Now he is still very good don't get me wrong, and he doesn't have the receiving corps he used to, but I wouldn't be surprised if he looks "washed up" in a year or two.
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The Packers used a similar value pick on Rodgers back in 2005. The Packers were coming off a Wild Card playoff loss, and the time was ticking on Favre's career. The next year sucked, going 4-12 in Sherman's last year, but they were in the NFC Championship Game two year after that. And Rodgers had no impact in any of those years.
Moral of the story? It doesn't matter if their window is right now. Not every player has to be in that window. Let's see what happens the right of the draft and the rest of the off-season.
I have no idea if Love is the guy or not. I'm not smart enough to know if that's the case or not. But Rodgers has 2, maybe 3 years left in a Packers uniform in my opinion. If they feel *that* strongly about Love, it's not a terrible pick.
I think that's a fair assessment. Rodgers is 36, declining in arm and mobility for sure. Pack are in a position now to watch him walk in 3 years or so similar to what Favre and Brady did. As much as I want an impact player for A-rod right now, I can see the business side of the decision as it attempts to set the team up for the future. Have to think about the future at some point but still hard to accept
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He's also clearly on the decline. I have spent some of my quarantine time watching various games that have been uploaded to Youtube and it is very, very obvious that he isn't what he used to be. Now he is still very good don't get me wrong, and he doesn't have the receiving corps he used to, but I wouldn't be surprised if he looks "washed up" in a year or two.
Aaron Nagler is someone I like to follow on Twitter. He’s tough on Rodgers, but I wouldn’t say unfair. Rodgers footwork and fundamentals have really deteriorated. It’s really affected his accuracy. Also, not taking an underneath route that’s open has always frustrated me.
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The Packers used a similar value pick on Rodgers back in 2005. The Packers were coming off a Wild Card playoff loss, and the time was ticking on Favre's career. The next year sucked, going 4-12 in Sherman's last year, but they were in the NFC Championship Game two year after that. And Rodgers had no impact in any of those years.
Moral of the story? It doesn't matter if their window is right now. Not every player has to be in that window. Let's see what happens the right of the draft and the rest of the off-season.
I have no idea if Love is the guy or not. I'm not smart enough to know if that's the case or not. But Rodgers has 2, maybe 3 years left in a Packers uniform in my opinion. If they feel *that* strongly about Love, it's not a terrible pick.
Agree. If they think Love is the guy and was the best value, then its ok. Still not crazy about it, but I understand it.
Fans want instant gratification, but a good GM plans for stability of the future. We will see in a few years how it plays out.
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Aaron Nagler is someone I like to follow on Twitter. He’s tough on Rodgers, but I wouldn’t say unfair. Rodgers footwork and fundamentals have really deteriorated. It’s really affected his accuracy. Also, not taking an underneath route that’s open has always frustrated me.
He looked washed up at times last season. Missed a ton of easy throws. For three quarters of that game at Detroit last year it was like the Monstars took his talent.
I think Gutey would rather keep a guy one year too short than too long, and I'm expecting a trade if Rodgers in the next two years.
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He looked washed up at times last season. Missed a ton of easy throws. For three quarters of that game at Detroit last year it was like the Monstars took his talent.
I think Gutey would rather keep a guy one year too short than too long, and I'm expecting a trade if Rodgers in the next two years.
Even with Rodgers’ decline, GB only has 3 playmakers. Looks like 2 of them will be gone soon. Gutsy has yet to show that he has the ability to draft good players.
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From an amateur sports psychologist point of view, it will be interesting to see how Rodgers reacts. The conventional wisdom has been that he played with a chip on his shoulder because of how far he fell on the draft board and how Favre treated him. If he feels disrespected, will that chip return and he returns to glory?
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The Packers used a similar value pick on Rodgers back in 2005. The Packers were coming off a Wild Card playoff loss, and the time was ticking on Favre's career. The next year sucked, going 4-12 in Sherman's last year, but they were in the NFC Championship Game two year after that. And Rodgers had no impact in any of those years.
Moral of the story? It doesn't matter if their window is right now. Not every player has to be in that window. Let's see what happens the right of the draft and the rest of the off-season.
I have no idea if Love is the guy or not. I'm not smart enough to know if that's the case or not. But Rodgers has 2, maybe 3 years left in a Packers uniform in my opinion. If they feel *that* strongly about Love, it's not a terrible pick.
We're going to disagree here. Rodgers was supposed to go 1 or 2. He landed in the Packers lap at 24. That is a bit different than trading up for the 4th QB to be taken. I get that the Packers must like something about him, but talent evaluation under Gunte has been suspect at best. How do we think Love will be different from Brett Hundley? Don't they check a lot of the same boxes?
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McCockiner strikes again https://twitter.com/RobDemovsky/status/1253736631712059398?s=19 (https://twitter.com/RobDemovsky/status/1253736631712059398?s=19)
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We're going to disagree here. Rodgers was supposed to go 1 or 2. He landed in the Packers lap at 24. That is a bit different than trading up for the 4th QB to be taken. I get that the Packers must like something about him, but talent evaluation under Gunte has been suspect at best. How do we think Love will be different from Brett Hundley? Don't they check a lot of the same boxes?
I meant similar value = late first round. That's it.
I don't know enough about how quarterbacks translate to the NFL to suggest any more than that.
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Packers biggest weakness is at inside linebacker. The 2 players taken after Love were ILBs.
Gonna be a lot of looking back at that next year (and the year after).
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Now that Carolina drafted Derrick Brown, I'm sensing a lot of fear of the Panthers on the board here. Trying to decide if this means 16-0 this season or just a more realistic 15-1.
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Colin called it two months ago. Even a blind squirrel finds an acorn and such...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1TJZqPS9UGc
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Colin called it two months ago. Even a blind squirrel finds an acorn and such...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1TJZqPS9UGc
Colin also recorded a show where he did a segment saying the Packers would be crazy to draft a QB.
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Colin also recorded a show where he did a segment saying the Packers would be crazy to draft a QB.
Oh, I'm not a fan, hence my blind squirrel comment. But it's amusing.
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Lots of WRs coming off the board early. Rodgers is going to get no help.
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Lots of WRs coming off the board early. Rodgers is going to get no help.
Packers need Mims.
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I did not feel RB was a position of need for the Lions. Would have liked to see a DL. Then again, based on recent history of Lion running backs, he will get seriously injured by the end of October. And it will be on to one of the others.
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Packers need Mims.
I agree. I’m glad Kmart is gone as he is the guy I was scared Gutey was gonna draft.
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I did not feel RB was a position of need for the Lions. Would have liked to see a DL. Then again, based on recent history of Lion running backs, he will get seriously injured by the end of October. And it will be on to one of the others.
Funny. As I was watching, I said to myself that the Lions weren’t smart enough to draft Swift. I thought it was a no-brainer.
I realize they may have had bigger needs, but don’t pass on a guy that good.
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Yeah, I get that angle, too. We shall see.
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I agree. I’m glad Kmart is gone as he is the guy I was scared Gutey was gonna draft.
I think they believe Jace Sternberger will step in fine if he stays healthy.
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I think they believe Jace Sternberger will step in fine if he stays healthy.
Im worried they’ll draft Trautman.
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So, who won the Khalil Mack trade?
A relative who is a Bears fan determined that the Bears did because the two guys the Raiders drafted with the first-round picks they acquired (Jacobs, Arnette) were taken too high each year.
I told him that's not really how it works. You have to look at all the guys the Bears could have drafted. Plus, Jacobs certainly looks more than decent so far. Too early to tell.
I say all that knowing you were just being sarcastic, jes, but what the heck.
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A relative who is a Bears fan determined that the Bears did because the two guys the Raiders drafted with the first-round picks they acquired (Jacobs, Arnette) were taken too high each year.
I told him that's not really how it works. You have to look at all the guys the Bears could have drafted. Plus, Jacobs certainly looks more than decent so far. Too early to tell.
I say all that knowing you were just being sarcastic, jes, but what the heck.
Lol, the Bear 100% won that trade.
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FML
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Thank God the Packers have Funchess
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I think Gutey’s hero must be Jerry Krause. Seems like he wants to build a team he can get credit for.
2 picks and I don’t see any improvement for the team this year. Rookie QB won’t play at all and Dillon won’t play much.
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So we blow our first two picks on positions we don’t need. Wtf.
Draft Love to replace Rodgers in a few years. Draft these did so they don’t need to pay Jones in a year.
There are very clear holes for this team. Have they already thrown in the towel for next season? If Gutes fails Murphy is gone too.
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Dillon had 850 carries in college.
That's ... a lot.
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Lol, the Bear 100% won that trade.
Bears are going to love having almost 15 percent of their 2021 and 2022 caps tied up in a defensive player on the wrong side of 30.
But it'll all be worth it with these playoff wins their racking up in the early years of the contract.
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Bears are going to love having almost 15 percent of their 2021 and 2022 caps tied up in a defensive player on the wrong side of 30.
But it'll all be worth it with these playoff wins their racking up in the early years of the contract.
Doesn't bother me, cause ya know, he's Khalil Mack.
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So we blow our first two picks on positions we don’t need. Wtf.
Draft Love to replace Rodgers in a few years. Draft these did so they don’t need to pay Jones in a year.
There are very clear holes for this team. Have they already thrown in the towel for next season? If Gutes fails Murphy is gone too.
Really wanted Gibson who went 2 picks later to Wash.
And yes, I think their fates are tied.
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Congrats on my former high school teammate for being drafted by the saints. Crazy
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Espn tragedy porn fun facts about players has been absolutely disgusting. Broadcasting all these deaths and then, for Tee Higgins, broadcasting that his mom has struggled with drug addiction. Just terrible.
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Espn tragedy porn fun facts about players has been absolutely disgusting. Broadcasting all these deaths and then, for Tee Higgins, broadcasting that his mom has struggled with drug addiction. Just terrible.
+1 Its awful.
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So we blow our first two picks on positions we don’t need. Wtf.
Draft Love to replace Rodgers in a few years. Draft these did so they don’t need to pay Jones in a year.
There are very clear holes for this team. Have they already thrown in the towel for next season? If Gutes fails Murphy is gone too.
We going back to the 70s and 80s baby.
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It's nice not having the worst draft class on paper for a chance. But actually, wtf are the Packers doing?
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So we blow our first two picks on positions we don’t need. Wtf.
Draft Love to replace Rodgers in a few years. Draft these did so they don’t need to pay Jones in a year.
There are very clear holes for this team. Have they already thrown in the towel for next season? If Gutes fails Murphy is gone too.
Putting Dillon and Jones in the backfield together creates some dangerous weapon options. Dillon is big enough to be a lead blocker, but he's more than good enough to run it at an elite level.
That means you can run them out together, split Jones out to a receiver, and Dillon can still pound it down the middle. Gives a lot of options out of different sets. Or play option screens. Fake handoff to Dillon, screen pass to Jones. Dillon is elite enough that you have to respect him. You also can spell Jones, so he isn't taking too much pounding. Dillon will make Jones better.
Also, last year we couldn't get those 2nd and 1, 3rd and 1, 4th and 1 conversions. They were killer. Dillon is going to pick them up.
Was pissed with it initially for similar reasons as you. But they got a solid TE in the 3rd, and there weren't great options at receiver at that point. I'm now more optimistic on the pick.
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Espn tragedy porn fun facts about players has been absolutely disgusting. Broadcasting all these deaths and then, for Tee Higgins, broadcasting that his mom has struggled with drug addiction. Just terrible.
It was unreal. The best joke I saw tonight was that apparently you are only a top 3 round draft pick if you’re parent is a former NFL player or coach or someone in your immediate family is no longer living
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It was unreal. The best joke I saw tonight was that apparently you are only a top 3 round draft pick if you’re parent is a former NFL player or coach or someone in your immediate family is no longer living
https://twitter.com/MikeBeauvais/status/1253851118230220801?s=19 (https://twitter.com/MikeBeauvais/status/1253851118230220801?s=19)
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Putting Dillon and Jones in the backfield together creates some dangerous weapon options. Dillon is big enough to be a lead blocker, but he's more than good enough to run it at an elite level.
That means you can run them out together, split Jones out to a receiver, and Dillon can still pound it down the middle. Gives a lot of options out of different sets. Or play option screens. Fake handoff to Dillon, screen pass to Jones. Dillon is elite enough that you have to respect him. You also can spell Jones, so he isn't taking too much pounding. Dillon will make Jones better.
Also, last year we couldn't get those 2nd and 1, 3rd and 1, 4th and 1 conversions. They were killer. Dillon is going to pick them up.
Was pissed with it initially for similar reasons as you. But they got a solid TE in the 3rd, and there weren't great options at receiver at that point. I'm now more optimistic on the pick.
You're a glass half full guy and that's nice. Currently, I'm a glass is on the floor and shattered kind of guy. Massive needs at LB, WR, and OL... and DL. But we got backups and redundancies.
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I have applauded college athletes like Christian McCaffrey and Leonard Fournette for deciding to skip their team's bowl games so they wouldn't jeopardize their professional futures.
And now, I applaud Derrick Brown, the Panthers' first-round draft pick.
The Charlotte Observer said that during his first tele-press-conference with the NC media, "he spoke with a matter-of-factness about his decision to turn down millions and return to college for his senior season. And then his decision, after that one, to play in Auburn’s bowl game last season instead of sitting it out to avoid the prospect of injury. The first decision, about coming back to school, was about his desire to earn his degree, which he did, in business. The second decision, about playing in the bowl game, was about his desire to finish what he started."
He made both decisions against the unsolicited advice of some who said he was "stupid" or "shortsighted" to risk his professional future.
To me, there are no "wrong" decisions in this realm. I am all for each athlete (along with his family) deciding what he feels is best for himself. If that means skipping a meaningless football exhibition, great. If that means playing in that game, fantastic. If it means leaving school early, wonderful. If it means staying 4 years, super. I'm not sure why any of those decisions bug outsiders so much.
This discussion frequently bleeds over to Hangin' at the Al, in which all of us Scoop geniuses tell young basketball players what they "should" do. "Should" Karim Mane go pro? "Should" he go to Marquette? Well, he "should" do what he wants to do, even if some of us might not understand the decision.
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Doesn't bother me, cause ya know, he's Khalil Mack.
Must be how Bears fans comforted themselves in the 70s and early 80s ... "Yeah, we're thoroughly mediocre and are running Bob Avellini and Vince Evans out there at quarterback, but, ya know,, Walter Payton!"
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Well, having Walter Payton was better than not having Walter Payton. So yeah...
The question is would the Bears have done better with those draft picks versus having Mack? My guess is they are probably better off with Mack. They wouldn't have won the division in 2018 without him.
And the Raiders were probably better off with the picks than with an unhappy Mack.
Trades don't always have winners and losers. Sometimes they are mutually beneficial. I think this one falls into that category.
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Well, having Walter Payton was better than not having Walter Payton. So yeah...
The question is would the Bears have done better with those draft picks versus having Mack? My guess is they are probably better off with Mack. They wouldn't have won the division in 2018 without him.
And the Raiders were probably better off with the picks than with an unhappy Mack.
Trades don't always have winners and losers. Sometimes they are mutually beneficial. I think this one falls into that category.
Reasonable.
Were I the Bears GM, I would have made that Mack trade every time. And I think many other teams' GMs would have done so, too.
Now the Trubisky deal ... that's another thing entirely.
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You're a glass half full guy and that's nice. Currently, I'm a glass is on the floor and shattered kind of guy. Massive needs at LB, WR, and OL... and DL. But we got backups and redundancies.
I'm trying my best.
Right now I'm hoping they maybe trade up into the early 5th round to grab Proche. I think he'd be solid out of the slot. A good possession receiver, could be an Edelman type receiver.
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I'm trying my best.
Right now I'm hoping they maybe trade up into the early 5th round to grab Proche. I think he'd be solid out of the slot. A good possession receiver, could be an Edelman type receiver.
Heh, I was hoping for Collin Johnson... but he gowne now.
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Heh, I was hoping for Collin Johnson... but he gowne now.
Well we still don't have a WR.
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Pretty sure the Bears jumped GB to take Mooney.
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This draft has been much better to watch from a production standpoint than any draft I can remember. I like not having to see some young kid and his family sit in the green room and be embarrassed (?) when they fall. Love seeing the front office staffs at their homes (or yachts). It’s a very personable production, flows much better, a lot less pomp and circumstance is fine by me.
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This draft has been much better to watch from a production standpoint than any draft I can remember. I like not having to see some young kid and his family sit in the green room and be embarrassed (?) when they fall. Love seeing the front office staffs at their homes (or yachts). It’s a very personable production, flows much better, a lot less pomp and circumstance is fine by me.
10-4 Brother Dish. Really loved Bill Belichek's dog at the New England draft central! That was priceless.
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So much for Pace drafting a QB every year until they get one. Really doubling down on the Nick Foles/Mitch Trubisky combo.
At least take a flyer on Anthony Gordon...
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So much for Pace drafting a QB every year until they get one. Really doubling down on the Nick Foles/Mitch Trubisky combo.
At least take a flyer on Anthony Gordon...
UDFA
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So in a year where the packers badly need a WR and we keep hearing about a deep wr draft class the packers get zero.
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So in a year where the packers badly need a WR and we keep hearing about a deep wr draft class the packers get zero.
Packers are shifting to a running team. LeFleur was always big on the run. See the success of Baltimore, Tenn and SF and it is easy to see the shift GB is making. Instead of passing to open up the run we will now see old school run to open up the pass.
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Packers are shifting to a running team. LeFleur was always big on the run. See the success of Baltimore, Tenn and SF and it is easy to see the shift GB is making. Instead of passing to open up the run we will now see old school run to open up the pass.
But we traded up to draft Patrick Mahomes so...
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Given that the Bears gave away one of the 10 best tight ends in NFL history back in 2011, it's pretty funny that they now have 10 tight ends on their roster.
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Pete Fiutak
@PeteFiutak
·
4h
Southern Illinois S Jeremy Chinn was the only player from an Illinois school selected in the #2020NFLDraft.
More players were selected from North Dakota, Rhode Island, Hawaii, Connecticut, New Mexico, Idaho and Wyoming - than from any of the Illinois FBS programs.
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Given that the Bears gave away one of the 10 best tight ends in NFL history back in 2011, it's pretty funny that they now have 10 tight ends on their roster.
Just trying to atone for the crimes of Mike Martz
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Pete Fiutak
@PeteFiutak
·
4h
Southern Illinois S Jeremy Chinn was the only player from an Illinois school selected in the #2020NFLDraft.
More players were selected from North Dakota, Rhode Island, Hawaii, Connecticut, New Mexico, Idaho and Wyoming - than from any of the Illinois FBS programs.
I mean, that's not a surprise. Northwestern has had some success in recent years getting guys to teh NFL but Illinois is far from a football state.
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I mean, that's not a surprise. Northwestern has had some success in recent years getting guys to teh NFL but Illinois is far from a football state.
They have seven division one football programs. One player drafted.
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Pete Fiutak
@PeteFiutak
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4h
Southern Illinois S Jeremy Chinn was the only player from an Illinois school selected in the #2020NFLDraft.
More players were selected from North Dakota, Rhode Island, Hawaii, Connecticut, New Mexico, Idaho and Wyoming - than from any of the Illinois FBS programs.
Panthers traded up to draft Chinn, giving up 5th round pick to move up 5 spots. So I obviously hope they know what they're doing. He looks like a heck of an athlete.
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Smoking Jay and Kristin Cavallari are getting divorced.
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Pete Fiutak
@PeteFiutak
·
4h
Southern Illinois S Jeremy Chinn was the only player from an Illinois school selected in the #2020NFLDraft.
More players were selected from North Dakota, Rhode Island, Hawaii, Connecticut, New Mexico, Idaho and Wyoming - than from any of the Illinois FBS programs.
And yet the Illini still beat Bucky.
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Smoking Jay and Kristin Cavallari are getting divorced.
I will to burn my paperback of Balancing in Heels: My Journey to Health, Happiness, and Making it all Work by Kristin Cavalari
In other news, Cardinals rated 4th best draft and selected best overall player (Simmons).
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I will to burn my paperback of Balancing in Heels: My Journey to Health, Happiness, and Making it all Work by Kristin Cavalari
In other news, Cardinals rated 4th best draft and selected best overall player (Simmons).
Ahh yes. Draft grades the day after the draft. Those always go great!
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I will to burn my paperback of Balancing in Heels: My Journey to Health, Happiness, and Making it all Work by Kristin Cavalari
In other news, Cardinals rated 4th best draft and selected best overall player (Simmons).
Big Laguna Beach fan?
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Here's an interesting, sometimes-amusing take on the draft from the LA Times' Sam Farmer, who shares 32 observations:
https://tylerpaper.com/sports/sam-farmer-the-reality-is-the-virtual-nfl-draft-format-was-great-and-31-other/article_b9654d7c-87f3-11ea-bcd0-6f8b4a4dbca7.html
Two of my favorites:
++ After watching NFL general managers draft from home, this much is undeniable: These guys have very high ceilings.
++ Weird how the mom of Iowa tackle Tristan Wirfs was wearing a faded #LFG T-shirt before the draft. That’s Tom Brady’s signature hashtag and stands for “Let’s … Go.” Then Wirfs, who could have gone much earlier, was drafted 13th by Tampa Bay to block for Brady.
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Ahh yes. Draft grades the day after the draft. Those always go great!
Now why would you say that?
8. Christian McCaffrey, RB Stanford — Carolina Panthers
Grade: D+
Analysis: McCaffrey will be make the Panthers offense better. Like Darren Sproles, he’ll make an impact on all four downs. But is he worth a No. 8 pick? I’m not so sure. You can get a good running back in the later rounds. Dalvin Cook may end up a better NFL running back and he didn’t even go in the first round.
10. Patrick Mahomes, QB Texas Tech — Kansas City Chiefs (from Buffalo)
Grade: C-
Analysis: Calling Mahomes a project is a major understatement. He’s nowhere near ready to play in the NFL. And, honestly, he may never be. Between his inconsistent accuracy due to poor mechanics, his tendency to bail from clean pockets and his lack of field vision, he’s going to leave as many big plays on the field as he creates. This was a risky pick.
12. Deshaun Watson, QB Clemson — Houston Texans (from CLE via PHI)
Grade: C+
Analysis: The Texans finally get their quarterback of the future. Or so they think. I’m not so sure Watson will ever develop into a top QB, but he’ll be an improvement over what they’ve had in Houston the last few years. That’s not saying a whole lot. The Clemson star needs to hit the deep ball more consistently and do a better job of reading defenses.
https://ftw.usatoday.com/2017/04/2017-nfl-draft-grades-picks-analysis-results
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Now why would you say that?
8. Christian McCaffrey, RB Stanford — Carolina Panthers
Grade: D+
Analysis: McCaffrey will be make the Panthers offense better. Like Darren Sproles, he’ll make an impact on all four downs. But is he worth a No. 8 pick? I’m not so sure. You can get a good running back in the later rounds. Dalvin Cook may end up a better NFL running back and he didn’t even go in the first round.
10. Patrick Mahomes, QB Texas Tech — Kansas City Chiefs (from Buffalo)
Grade: C-
Analysis: Calling Mahomes a project is a major understatement. He’s nowhere near ready to play in the NFL. And, honestly, he may never be. Between his inconsistent accuracy due to poor mechanics, his tendency to bail from clean pockets and his lack of field vision, he’s going to leave as many big plays on the field as he creates. This was a risky pick.
12. Deshaun Watson, QB Clemson — Houston Texans (from CLE via PHI)
Grade: C+
Analysis: The Texans finally get their quarterback of the future. Or so they think. I’m not so sure Watson will ever develop into a top QB, but he’ll be an improvement over what they’ve had in Houston the last few years. That’s not saying a whole lot. The Clemson star needs to hit the deep ball more consistently and do a better job of reading defenses.
https://ftw.usatoday.com/2017/04/2017-nfl-draft-grades-picks-analysis-results
Thank God we have Draft grades in this time of Covid 19. We don’t even need to play the games and risk the health of people involved. Just check out random draft grades. The Cardinals killed it! Simulated 2020 Super Bowl Champs! The Arizona Cardinals/Chicago Cubs fan (huh?) is all set!
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Great find, Pakuni.
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I don't find grades to be a bad thing this early.
As we see, I think most Scoopers are smart enough to know that they are simply a snapshot in time. We (and the draft experts) don't really know. For the most part, the grades are what these "experts" see as far as the draftees making their team better NEXT year.
So, of course the Packers' grades would be among the lowest in the league. They drafted for the future as none of these guys will make any difference this fall. I don't agree with what they did, but we won't know if their draft was a success until we see what Love does 5 years from now. So it could be anywhere from a total bust draft (if Love is a bust) to a great draft if he becomes a star.
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I don't find grades to be a bad thing this early.
As we see, I think most Scoopers are smart enough to know that they are simply a snapshot in time. We (and the draft experts) don't really know. For the most part, the grades are what these "experts" see as far as the draftees making their team better NEXT year.
So, of course the Packers' grades would be among the lowest in the league. They drafted for the future as none of these guys will make any difference this fall. I don't agree with what they did, but we won't know if their draft was a success until we see what Love does 5 years from now. So it could be anywhere from a total bust draft (if Love is a bust) to a great draft if he becomes a star.
I'm not sure if it's all about next year. The Dolphins are getting good grades for taking Tua, and he may not even see the field next year, for example. Same with the Ravens for taking Dobbins, who likely will be a backup next season.
I don't mind the draft grades at all. They just shouldn't be taken too seriously. The biggest problem is that they're based almost entirely on how the Kipers. McShays, Bruglers, etc., of the world rank these guys and their values, as opposed to the teams.
I don't mind those guys and think for the most part they do decent work, but the reality is they can't possibly do as much work on these players that NFL teams do, nor do they have the same access to information as the teams. That's even more of an issue this year, when media guys couldn't hang around pro days to get tips on where plays stand with the teams.
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You hit the nail on the head, Pakuni, when you said they shouldn’t be taken too seriously.
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I don't find grades to be a bad thing this early.
As we see, I think most Scoopers are smart enough to know that they are simply a snapshot in time. We (and the draft experts) don't really know. For the most part, the grades are what these "experts" see as far as the draftees making their team better NEXT year.
So, of course the Packers' grades would be among the lowest in the league. They drafted for the future as none of these guys will make any difference this fall. I don't agree with what they did, but we won't know if their draft was a success until we see what Love does 5 years from now. So it could be anywhere from a total bust draft (if Love is a bust) to a great draft if he becomes a star.
5 yeers ta judge, aina?
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Ahh yes. Draft grades the day after the draft. Those always go great!
Something to mildly be excited about for a team that over the years doesn’t shine on or off the field in most years. They mean something in April, not much come September.
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Something to mildly be excited about for a team that over the years doesn’t shine on or off the field in most years. They mean something in April, not much come September.
They mean nothing in April. SI, ESPN, CBS Sports, whoever could’ve given the Packers an A and it wouldn’t have changed my mind one bit that the Packers’ draft stunk this year (though I like Dillon). Hopefully I’m wrong here. But I didn’t spend one second looking at any team’s draft grades.
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https://twitter.com/evansilva/status/1255189179241246720?s=19
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https://twitter.com/evansilva/status/1255189179241246720?s=19
Bob McGinn is the Jeff Potrykus of Tom Oateses
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Rumor is that McGinn doesn’t have the connections he used to during the Thompson / McCarthy era. (Specifically the Eliot Wolf era.) Not saying he’s wrong, anything he says should not be believed like it used to.
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Rumor is that McGinn doesn’t have the connections he used to during the Thompson / McCarthy era. (Specifically the Eliot Wolf era.) Not saying he’s wrong, anything he says should not be believed like it used to.
From what I remember he ran a piece about a D lineman (can’t remember which one) and his checkered past and that was very damning towards the Packers. Basically called them out for being on a high horse while I’m reality if you produced they were no different than any organizations in their willingness to look the other way. I think that soured the relationship and McGinn has seemingly had it out for them since (which is fine, he was just doing his job).
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From what I remember he ran a piece about a D lineman (can’t remember which one) and his checkered past and that was very damning towards the Packers. Basically called them out for being on a high horse while I’m reality if you produced they were no different than any organizations in their willingness to look the other way. I think that soured the relationship and McGinn has seemingly had it out for them since (which is fine, he was just doing his job).
Johnny Jolly, I believe. It actually felt like fair criticism at the time. But it feels wildly separated from today's politics to feel anything but sorry for these guys with drug addiction issues. Especially what we now know about NFL practices.
But for the draft, he has always relied on scout takes that are great for attention quotes, but dip into a lot of outmoded stereotypes and scouting cliches and generally lack in substance.
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McGinn is as well connected to the league as any football writer.
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McGinn is as well connected to the league as any football writer.
I think this was a much more accurate statement ten years ago than it is today.
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I think this was a much more accurate statement ten years ago than it is today.
Correct. McGinn is basically a hack at this point in his career.
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They mean nothing in April. SI, ESPN, CBS Sports, whoever could’ve given the Packers an A and it wouldn’t have changed my mind one bit that the Packers’ draft stunk this year (though I like Dillon). Hopefully I’m wrong here. But I didn’t spend one second looking at any team’s draft grades.
If they mean nothing there sure are a lot of sports media types that bother to go through the exercise. Fans and teams that buy more season tickets as a result of a quality draft and the surge of purchases immediately after by some teams.
They mean more than nothing but agree they get overhyped. Who cares, it is the offseason and fans are excited about the new talent that comes in. Ultimately how you play between the lines matters and time judges if the teams picks were well done.
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If they mean nothing there sure are a lot of sports media types that bother to go through the exercise. Fans and teams that buy more season tickets as a result of a quality draft and the surge of purchases immediately after by some teams.
They mean more than nothing but agree they get overhyped. Who cares, it is the offseason and fans are excited about the new talent that comes in. Ultimately how you play between the lines matters and time judges if the teams picks were well done.
All they really mean is clicks to webpages and ratings on TV shows. Aka ad revenue.
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Correct. McGinn is basically a hack at this point in his career.
Disagree, Hards.
He always had respect around the league, as well as a deep well of connections, but working for The Athletic gives a writer more cachet than being local.
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Correct. McGinn is basically a hack at this point in his career.
Kind of like Woeful had good Bucks connections for a time, but was god awful about college basketball and anything else, but that didn't stop him from writing on it.
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If they mean nothing there sure are a lot of sports media types that bother to go through the exercise. Fans and teams that buy more season tickets as a result of a quality draft and the surge of purchases immediately after by some teams.
They mean more than nothing but agree they get overhyped. Who cares, it is the offseason and fans are excited about the new talent that comes in. Ultimately how you play between the lines matters and time judges if the teams picks were well done.
People are buying season tickets based on how SI or ESPN grades their draft? LOL! I'm thinking it's more likely they're buying season tickets because they land Joe Burrow or Tua, whether SI or ESPN considers those A+ or D- selections.
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UW-Milwaukee has a kid in the NFL i just found out
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/H/HarrDe03.htm
Played on the club team there
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People are buying season tickets based on how SI or ESPN grades their draft? LOL! I'm thinking it's more likely they're buying season tickets because they land Joe Burrow or Tua, whether SI or ESPN considers those A+ or D- selections.
Aren't they part of the same calculus? If a team has an excellent draft and it is because of guys like Burrow and the rest of the picks, what is the difference? The fans are excited about the new crop of players and willing to buy more tickets. They hear about how good the draft class is from their favorite football talking head who tells them the team just had their best draft in years, or hauled in an A class led by phenom QB or WR. All interconnected. Remember, fans aren't rational.
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Aren't they part of the same calculus? If a team has an excellent draft and it is because of guys like Burrow and the rest of the picks, what is the difference? The fans are excited about the new crop of players and willing to buy more tickets. They hear about how good the draft class is from their favorite football talking head who tells them the team just had their best draft in years, or hauled in an A class led by phenom QB or WR. All interconnected. Remember, fans aren't rational.
I stand by what I said. The big name player sells tickets. The SI or ESPN grade does not.
For example, the Tua pick got a B from SI while Jederrick Wills got an A. I’m guessing more season tickets were sold as a result of the Tua pick than the Wills pick, SI grades be damned.
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UW-Milwaukee has a kid in the NFL i just found out
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/H/HarrDe03.htm
Played on the club team there
He was a basketball played, he just trained with and worked out with the club team before his NFL workouts. Similar situation to Antonio Gates. Also like Jimmy Graham but he played a 5th year in FB, after basketball, like Greg Paulus. SF/PF translates well to the TE position. I had a guy I went to college with who was a SF. He got an agent to look for opportunities to play in Asia and Europe and the agency actually had him train for looks as a TE for a year, got him a few tryouts.
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Bears decline Trubisky’s fifth year option.
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Lions declined e the 5th year option on Jarrad Davis. Starting MLB.
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Bears decline Trubisky’s fifth year option.
Wow ... that went pretty fast from "HE'S OUR QB, DAMMIT" to "SEE YA LATER."
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Pace better hope for a turnaround quick. Although I guess he can still throw Nagy under the bus to get a couple more years.
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I’ve seen multiple people compare Trubisky to Alex Smith in needing a change of scenery and projecting future success. Which is baffling. They have nothing in common besides playing in an Andy Reid based system at a point in their careers and being disappointing top 2 picks.
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Bears decline Trubisky’s fifth year option.
Four of the top five picks in 2017 didn't get their options picked up.
Lots of really good players in that draft, too.
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Four of the top five picks in 2017 didn't get their options picked up.
Lots of really good players in that draft, too.
I still like Corey Davis, I think in the right system, he’ll become a decent WR2.
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Here's an interesting article in The Athletic about this sportswriter's conversation with a young(ish) Donald Trump in 1984, when Trump owned the USFL's Generals and was trying to force a merger between the leagues.
https://theathletic.com/1795905/2020/05/06/the-nfl-is-largely-a-myth-my-1984-conversation-with-donald-trump/?source=dailyemail
I will respect The Athletics' paywall. It's a great site, and subscriptions are super-cheap. Anybody interested in sports should get a sub. But here are my favorite 2 paragraphs to give folks a taste ...
“The NFL is largely a myth,” he told me. “We have franchises right now that could beat most of the teams in the NFL — Birmingham, Michigan, the Generals, a couple of others. Pittsburgh has an excellent team. The NFL used to scoff at the AFL. They’ve done a great job perpetuating the myth.”
For the record, the “excellent” Maulers finished their one and only season in the USFL with a 3-15 record. Birmingham’s quarterback was Cliff Stoudt, Michigan’s was Bobby Hebert, New Jersey’s was Brian Sipe. The Super Bowl in the 1984 NFL season featured San Francisco quarterback Joe Montana vs. Miami quarterback Dan Marino.
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Here's an interesting article in The Athletic about this sportswriter's conversation with a young(ish) Donald Trump in 1984, when Trump owned the USFL's Generals and was trying to force a merger between the leagues.
https://theathletic.com/1795905/2020/05/06/the-nfl-is-largely-a-myth-my-1984-conversation-with-donald-trump/?source=dailyemail
I will respect The Athletics' paywall. It's a great site, and subscriptions are super-cheap. Anybody interested in sports should get a sub. But here is are my favorite 2 paragraphs to give folks a taste ...
“The NFL is largely a myth,” he told me. “We have franchises right now that could beat most of the teams in the NFL — Birmingham, Michigan, the Generals, a couple of others. Pittsburgh has an excellent team. The NFL used to scoff at the AFL. They’ve done a great job perpetuating the myth.”
For the record, the “excellent” Maulers finished their one and only season in the USFL with a 3-15 record. Birmingham’s quarterback was Cliff Stoudt, Michigan’s was Bobby Hebert, New Jersey’s was Brian Sipe. The Super Bowl in the 1984 NFL season featured San Francisco quarterback Joe Montana vs. Miami quarterback Dan Marino.
It was a viable spring board, and for a moment, a viable alternative with players like Steve Young, Reggie White, etc. Power tends to consolidate, which is largely what happened here.
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Here's an interesting article in The Athletic about this sportswriter's conversation with a young(ish) Donald Trump in 1984, when Trump owned the USFL's Generals and was trying to force a merger between the leagues.
https://theathletic.com/1795905/2020/05/06/the-nfl-is-largely-a-myth-my-1984-conversation-with-donald-trump/?source=dailyemail
I will respect The Athletics' paywall. It's a great site, and subscriptions are super-cheap. Anybody interested in sports should get a sub. But here are my favorite 2 paragraphs to give folks a taste ...
“The NFL is largely a myth,” he told me. “We have franchises right now that could beat most of the teams in the NFL — Birmingham, Michigan, the Generals, a couple of others. Pittsburgh has an excellent team. The NFL used to scoff at the AFL. They’ve done a great job perpetuating the myth.”
For the record, the “excellent” Maulers finished their one and only season in the USFL with a 3-15 record. Birmingham’s quarterback was Cliff Stoudt, Michigan’s was Bobby Hebert, New Jersey’s was Brian Sipe. The Super Bowl in the 1984 NFL season featured San Francisco quarterback Joe Montana vs. Miami quarterback Dan Marino.
Everything Trump Touches Dies as the USFL has shown us. Pete Rozelle didn’t want him in the NFL. Jeff Pearlman’s book covers this pretty well. The league had a good initial plan but it went haywire pretty quick and was accelerated when Trump bought the Generals
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Everything Trump Touches Dies as the USFL has shown us. Pete Rozelle didn’t want him in the NFL. Jeff Pearlman’s book covers this pretty well. The league had a good initial plan but it went haywire pretty quick and was accelerated when Trump bought the Generals
Jeff Pearlman's book, Football for a Buck, is an awesome history of the USFL (my first pro football game was a USFL game, the Michigan Panthers, who still have more playoff wins than the Lions since 1958) and how Trump killed the league. The letter the Tampa Bay Bandits owner sent to Trump is a phenomenal takedown of him:
https://jeffpearlman.com/one-mans-letter-to-donald-trump/
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Jeff Pearlman's book, Football for a Buck, is an awesome history of the USFL (my first pro football game was a USFL game, the Michigan Panthers, who still have more playoff wins than the Lions since 1958) and how Trump killed the league. The letter the Tampa Bay Bandits owner sent to Trump is a phenomenal takedown of him:
https://jeffpearlman.com/one-mans-letter-to-donald-trump/
They had a good initial plan in place but once salaries escalated like they did, they were doomed. Trump deserves a lot of the blame but other reckless spending by owners incapable of paying the bills didn’t help. Trump tried leveraging the league into getting a NFL franchise or hoping they’d have to take a number of USFL teams in a merger, including the Generals. It did help change the NFL quite a bit, though, and mostly for the better I’d argue
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Sounds like Earl Thomas should have stayed home.
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Sounds like Earl Thomas should have stayed home.
Run over by a train in Derrick Henry then caught...never mind
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Run over by a train in Derrick Henry then caught...never mind
I bang chicks with my brother all the time. Dont see a story here.
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Panthers owner says he can envision full NFL season being played and says there could be "some amount of fans" at the games.
https://www.charlotteobserver.com/sports/article242705941.html?
Carolina Panthers owner David Tepper is optimistic the NFL will play games this season — with fewer fans than usual.
Appearing on CNBC Wednesday, Tepper said he thinks there will be enough COVID-19 tests available by the fall to make sure that players are safe. And he thinks fans, in some towns, could be in the stands to watch.
“There should be some amount of fans in the stadiums,” Tepper said “depending on what locale and where you are and what the local rules are."
Tepper did suggest that fans may have to wear face coverings at games. But he felt if people were comfortable flying that the league should make plans for some level of fan attendance at games this fall.
“You won’t be having full stadiums,” Tepper said, “but that doesn’t mean you can’t have some fans in the stadium, either.”
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So I've been having fun watching the Packer history documentaries by decade. They were so bad in the 1970s and 80s, but those years are somewhat nostalgic because I grew up watching them then. So in honor of those two decades, I have put together an "All 70s and 80s Team." It was a labor of love.
QB – Lynn Dickey
RB - John Brockington
RB - Gerry Ellis (Jeez this is bad. But not much to pick from here.)
WR - James Lofton (Best player in these two decades)
WR - Phil Epps (Over John Jefferson, Sterling Sharpe with one good 80s year)
TE - Paul Coffman
T- Greg Koch
T- Ken Ruettgers
G- Gale Gillingham
G- Rich Moran
C- Larry McCaren
DT - Mike McCoy
DT - Bob Brown (DT was the hardest position to pick. Both played in early 70s)
DE - Ezra Johnson
DE - Robert Brown (Picked over Mike Butler and Alphonso Carraker)
LB - Fred Carr
LB - Tim Harris
LB - John Anderson (Best player over two decades on defensive side)
LB - Mike Douglass (over Brian Noble)
CB - Mark Lee
CB - Willie Buchanon (Ken Ellis could be here)
S - Johnnie Gray
S - Mark Murphy (the bald one)
K - Chester Marcol
P - David Beverly
KR - Steve Odom
PR - Walter Stanley
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Pretty good list. I’d only change a couple guys.
Offensive line was probably the easiest unit to pick.
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Pretty good list. I’d only change a couple guys.
Offensive line was probably the easiest unit to pick.
Good thing I remembered Rich Moran. Otherwise I had Leotis Harris there and that is a pretty big dropoff.
Hardest were the second running back (Terdell Middleton had one good year. MacArthur Lane wasn't bad either) and second receiver. (Jefferson was a flashy guy but wasn't as productive as Epps.)
Probably the best to be left off the list was either Ken Ellis or TE Rich McGeorge.
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Good thing I remembered Rich Moran. Otherwise I had Leotis Harris there and that is a pretty big dropoff.
Hardest were the second running back (Terdell Middleton had one good year. MacArthur Lane wasn't bad either) and second receiver. (Jefferson was a flashy guy but wasn't as productive as Epps.)
Probably the best to be left off the list was either Ken Ellis or TE Rich McGeorge.
Lane would be my change on offense.
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Lane would be my change on offense.
Which is completely justifyable.
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I wonder if there is going to be different plans for domes vs outdoor stadiums.
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NFL proposes moving teams up draft slots if they hire a minority as head coach or primary football executive.
This is going to make some people very mad.
https://sports.yahoo.com/proposed-rooney-rule-modifications-include-teams-improving-draft-slots-for-hiring-minority-coaches-g-ms-195808996.html
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Watching Bundesliga this morning. If the NFL doesn't have fans in the stands, I hope that Fox doesn't pump in fake crowd noise like Joe Buck said they were considering.
No crowds is strange. But no crowds with crowd noise would be worse.
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Watching Bundesliga this morning. If the NFL doesn't have fans in the stands, I hope that Fox doesn't pump in fake crowd noise like Joe Buck said they were considering.
No crowds is strange. But no crowds with crowd noise would be worse.
It would make sense for the NFL though, IMO. Soccer and basketball have near constant action. So there is plenty of chatter and player communication bouncing about. So it works. The NFL would have these prolonged dead periods with no noise in between plays
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It would make sense for the NFL though, IMO. Soccer and basketball have near constant action. So there is plenty of chatter and player communication bouncing about. So it works. The NFL would have these prolonged dead periods with no noise in between plays
So, to make it really realistic, do you pump in the kind of noise that fans would make?
When the road team is trying to pick up a 4th-and-1, do you pump in such a loud din that the offense can't hear signals and offensive linemen commit procedure penalties?
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Phyllis George and Michael McCaskey have died.
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Phyllis George was terrific. Smart, beautiful, understood football, classy woman. Pioneer and did it better than most that came after her. RIP
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So, to make it really realistic, do you pump in the kind of noise that fans would make?
When the road team is trying to pick up a 4th-and-1, do you pump in such a loud din that the offense can't hear signals and offensive linemen commit procedure penalties?
The NFL can consult with Minnesota who has experience doing this for a couple decades
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It would make sense for the NFL though, IMO. Soccer and basketball have near constant action. So there is plenty of chatter and player communication bouncing about. So it works. The NFL would have these prolonged dead periods with no noise in between plays
I actually don’t think it would after thinking about it and watching another game. Unnatural sounds would take away from the game in my opinion. Let’s hear the chatter.
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NFL proposes moving teams up draft slots if they hire a minority as head coach or primary football executive.
This is going to make some people very mad.
https://sports.yahoo.com/proposed-rooney-rule-modifications-include-teams-improving-draft-slots-for-hiring-minority-coaches-g-ms-195808996.html
Define minority. Is Ron Rivera really a minority?
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Define minority. Is Ron Rivera really a minority?
He was born in America. His father is Puerto Rican and his mother is Mexican.
So if Rivera is not a "minority," then no Hispanic born in America is a minority.
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He was born in America. His father is Puerto Rican and his mother is Mexican.
So if Rivera is not a "minority," then no Hispanic born in America is a minority.
Mexican-Americans make up 11% of the population. Italian-Americans make up 6%. So which one is a minority?
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Mexican-Americans make up 11% of the population. Italian-Americans make up 6%. So which one is a minority?
Oh boy....
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Mexican-Americans make up 11% of the population. Italian-Americans make up 6%. So which one is a minority?
:o
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Mexican-Americans make up 11% of the population. Italian-Americans make up 6%. So which one is a minority?
Not gonna go down this rabbit hole.
How 'bout that Packers draft?
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Alternative to a live audience that the NFL should consider.
https://twitter.com/ESPNFC/status/1262337686649614336?s=20
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NFL planning to have full stadiums in September.
I doubt Govenor Murphy will allow it at MetLife in September.
https://www.nbcsports.com/washington/redskins/nfls-troy-vincent-were-planning-have-full-stadiums-until-medical-community-tells-us
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NFL planning to have full stadiums in September.
https://www.nbcsports.com/washington/redskins/nfls-troy-vincent-were-planning-have-full-stadiums-until-medical-community-tells-us
The President did say so and he’s been pretty on the mark in that regard so I can’t see why this wouldn’t happen.
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The President did say so and he’s been pretty on the mark in that regard so I can’t see why this wouldn’t happen.
It's not up to the President, the call will be made by each Governor. If it does happen I would be curious to see if the fans actually show up.
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NFL planning to have full stadiums in September.
I doubt Govenor Murphy will allow it at MetLife in September.
https://www.nbcsports.com/washington/redskins/nfls-troy-vincent-were-planning-have-full-stadiums-until-medical-community-tells-us
I feel this is similar to Universities saying they will have students on campus. It’s far enough out that we hope things will be good enough to do that, but still a very fluid situation.
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https://www.freep.com/story/sports/college/university-michigan/wolverines/2020/05/24/michigan-football-president-mark-schlissel-coronavirus/5252621002/
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Excuse me but if you think any governor is going to tell the National Football League when they can and cannot play.........
It's the NFL Gang. The NFL.
Seriously, I truly hope we have football this fall. At some point we have to come back to normal. We really do. This country can deal with no baseball and spectator free Nascar, but the NFL is something different.
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Excuse me but if you think any governor is going to tell the National Football League when they can and cannot play.........
It's the NFL Gang. The NFL.
That's why the NFL is reportedly looking at alternatives for their California based teams huh?
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There may be different standards for outdoor stadiums versus domes. And even if open, how many will attend?
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NFL scrapped its one-year experiment with reviewing interference calls, thank goodness.
The reviews were worse than the calls.
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NFL scrapped its one-year experiment with reviewing interference calls, thank goodness.
The reviews were worse than the calls.
Hadn’t seen this. Agree completely.
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NFL scrapped its one-year experiment with reviewing interference calls, thank goodness.
The reviews were worse than the calls.
Make a rule change to appease a loud and aggrieved fan base, have it go terribly wrong, toss it in the dumpster after plenty of time has passed for said Fan base to calm down. Classic NFL
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Make a rule change to appease a loud and aggrieved fan base, have it go terribly wrong, toss it in the dumpster after plenty of time has passed for said Fan base to calm down. Classic NFL
Yep. Total overreaction, executed horribly.
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Make a rule change to appease a loud and aggrieved fan base, have it go terribly wrong, toss it in the dumpster after plenty of time has passed for said Fan base to calm down. Classic NFL
A double doink, if you will!
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I agree with The Athletic's Tim Kawakami that this would be the perfect time for an NFL team to make a statement by signing Colin Kaepernick.
https://theathletic.com/1845512/2020/05/30/kawakami-its-time-for-an-nfl-team-to-stand-up-and-sign-colin-kaepernick/?source=dailyemail
One of the many things I learned from Kawakami's well-written, reasonable column was this:
Just this week, Kaepernick started a defense fund for Minnesota protesters in need of legal assistance. He has done this in other areas, mostly out of his own pocket. Is this somebody who should be blackballed by the NFL? Is this what NFL owners are so desperate to keep out of their league?
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Signing him how doesn't make a lot of sense. It looks too much like pandering, because that's actually what it is.
They should be self-reflective about how they got here and why they overreacted how they did so it doesn't happen in the future. But that's hard to do, so they won't do that either.
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Signing him how doesn't make a lot of sense. It looks too much like pandering, because that's actually what it is.
Won't argue. We can disagree on this.
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Drew Brees ... very good at reading defenses, very bad at reading the room.
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Drew Brees ... very good at reading defenses, very bad at reading the room.
Yeah. That was not very good. Even when he tried to "clarify" it, it looked bad.
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Drew Brees ... very good at reading defenses, very bad at reading the room.
It is interesting to hear him contradict himself from one sentence to the next. Almost as if he doesn't "get it" as much as he thinks or says.
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I'm all for unity, ending police brutality, and peaceful protest.
Just don't peacefully protest in a way that I'm not all for.
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Surprised Cam Newton doesn’t have a team yet. Wonder why that is
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Surprised Cam Newton doesn’t have a team yet. Wonder why that is
Two-fold, I think.
High-$$$ demand combined with Covid-19 preventing teams from being able to bring him in to be checked out by doctors following injuries the last couple years.
I also haven't heard if he would accept a one-year deal or is holding out for multiple years.
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Surprised Cam Newton doesn’t have a team yet. Wonder why that is
Honestly, I think it's because nobody knows if he's healthy. Or they do know, and the answer isn't good.
As for Brees, I think he's genuinely a good guy who just stepped in it here. His problem - and a lot of people's problem - is he can't understand that what the flag means to him isn't what the flag means to everyone else.
It's fine that he sees the flag and thinks of his grandpa who served in the military, etc. But that doesn't mean that those who kneel are personally insulting his grandpa or those who've served in the military. That's just him being myopic.
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Honestly, I think it's because nobody knows if he's healthy. Or they do know, and the answer isn't good.
As for Brees, I think he's genuinely a good guy who just stepped in it here. His problem - and a lot of people's problem - is he can't understand that what the flag means to him isn't what the flag means to everyone else.
It's fine that he sees the flag and thinks of his grandpa who served in the military, etc. But that doesn't mean that those who kneel are personally insulting his grandpa or those who've served in the military. That's just him being myopic.
I’d buy that first part if a known injured QB like Joe Flacco hadn’t been signed in the last week by the Jets
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I’d buy that first part if a known injured QB like Joe Flacco hadn’t been signed in the last week by the Jets
I'd imagine if Cam wanted a one-year, $1.5 million contract, he could find one pretty quick.
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As for Brees, I think he's genuinely a good guy who just stepped in it here. His problem - and a lot of people's problem - is he can't understand that what the flag means to him isn't what the flag means to everyone else.
It's fine that he sees the flag and thinks of his grandpa who served in the military, etc. But that doesn't mean that those who kneel are personally insulting his grandpa or those who've served in the military. That's just him being myopic.
Well said, and that was my initial take as well. Brees has always been well liked and respected, by teammates and across the league. I think Thomas’ initial tweet about “He dont no know better” was probably spot on, before he got further pissed off. Brees should have, and could have know better, but we’re all guilty of having tinted shades on sometimes, and not for malicious or necessarily selfish reasons.
He’s done tons for the community in NO and is beloved there, but the reactionary realm of social media, much less the current climate the last week or so, it’s just a perfect storm to paint him to be an enemy not the ally he more realistically is.
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Surprised Cam Newton doesn’t have a team yet. Wonder why that is
Health
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Well said, and that was my initial take as well. Brees has always been well liked and respected, by teammates and across the league. I think Thomas’ initial tweet about “He dont no know better” was probably spot on, before he got further pissed off. Brees should have, and could have know better, but we’re all guilty of having tinted shades on sometimes, and not for malicious or necessarily selfish reasons.
He’s done tons for the community in NO and is beloved there, but the reactionary realm of social media, much less the current climate the last week or so, it’s just a perfect storm to paint him to be an enemy not the ally he more realistically is.
Agree with all of this and with what others have said, though I am less willing to let him off the hook by blaming "social media."
Real people who hurt are pissed and disappointed at him. Social media is merely their way of communicating it. There also is plenty of it on ESPN and other networks, and in other media.
But yes, I've also heard he is a good guy. It probably will take time, but I like to think he'll work things out with those who are now wondering what's in his heart.
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Brees offers an apology.
https://www.instagram.com/p/CBA1P3gHpT_/?igshid=f7cm3d45oscj
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Health
Didn’t stop Joe Flacco from getting a job.
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I mean good for Brees, but...
"In an attempt to talk about respect, unity, and solidarity centered around the American flag and the national anthem, I made comments that were insensitive and completely missed the mark on the issues we are facing right now as a country."
Why on God's green earth did you think it would be appropriate at THAT point in time to bring up the American flag and national anthem?
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Didn’t stop Joe Flacco from getting a job.
And as was mentioned earlier, Flacco got a one year, $1.5 million deal that guarantees just $550,000. If Cam wants that deal, Cam has that deal.
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Panthers coach Matt Rhule says he will respect any peaceful protest his players want to make before, during and after the season. That includes taking a knee during the anthem, if that's what they see fit.
Several Panthers players have been very visible out in public this week, taking part in rallies and speaking.
As a Panthers fan and proud American, I'm happy about all of the above.
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Panthers coach Matt Rhule says he will respect any peaceful protest his players want to make before, during and after the season. That includes taking a knee during the anthem, if that's what they see fit.
Several Panthers players have been very visible out in public this week, taking part in rallies and speaking.
As a Panthers fan and proud American, I'm happy about all of the above.
When and if there is a NFL season, I suspect you’ll see a lot of kneeling at the very least. I think there could be more than just that, like players refusing to play
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When and if there is a NFL season, I suspect you’ll see a lot of kneeling at the very least. I think there could be more than just that, like players refusing to play
Why do you think they would refuse to play?
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Martellus Bennett has some opinions. One of those is not being very happy with his QB.
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Why do you think they would refuse to play?
As a protest to social injustice and racism within the NFL. How many minorities were hired as head coaches this off-season? How many were hired as coordinators? I believe we’ll see a lot of protesting of some type across all sports leagues in the next 6 months, including possible game boycotts
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Martellus Bennett has some opinions. One of those is not being very happy with his QB.
Who is "his QB?" He hasn't played in two seasons.
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As a protest to social injustice and racism within the NFL. How many minorities were hired as head coaches this off-season? How many were hired as coordinators? I believe we’ll see a lot of protesting of some type across all sports leagues in the next 6 months, including possible game boycotts
We'll see protesting. I'd be shocked if we see boycotts. NFL careers are too short and game checks are too valuable. Also, Wally Pipp.
And, a player kneeling on the field makes a far greater statement than a player nowhere to be seen.
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I mean good for Brees, but...
"In an attempt to talk about respect, unity, and solidarity centered around the American flag and the national anthem, I made comments that were insensitive and completely missed the mark on the issues we are facing right now as a country."
Why on God's green earth did you think it would be appropriate at THAT point in time to bring up the American flag and national anthem?
In fairness to Brees, he was answering a direct question about it.
The smart play would have been to say something vanilla about wanting to respect and understand everyone's point of view.
The next best option would be to duck the question.
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Who is "his QB?" He hasn't played in two seasons.
Ah. That's my bad. I read his tweet and he had quoted AR.
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We'll see protesting. I'd be shocked if we see boycotts. NFL careers are too short and game checks are too valuable. Also, Wally Pipp.
And, a player kneeling on the field makes a far greater statement than a player nowhere to be seen.
It will be fascinating to watch, that is for sure.
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Ah. That's my bad. I read his tweet and he had quoted AR.
Yeah I looked into that later. I've heard a bunch about the Martellus Bennett in Green Bay issue so I don't really know what to say. It was probably just a bad fit from the get go.
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Is Jake Fromm elite?
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Is Jake Fromm elite?
At what?
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Is Jake Fromm elite?
It struck me as odd that he only apologized the for that term.
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It will be fascinating to watch, that is for sure.
I have to agree with Pak on this. I think there will be protests, and hopefully lots of white players will join their black brothers in taking part. But actual boycotts? That would only work if a large number of superstars, both white and black, led one. For example, Brady, Donald, Mahomes, Rodgers, Mack and Watt led several hundred other NFL players in threatening to sit out unless such-and-such took place. Can’t see that happening, though.
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Panthers owner David Tepper is not trying to quash his players' activism. In fact, the opposite is true.
https://theathletic.com/1856015/2020/06/04/panthers-owner-to-players-keep-this-movement-going-after-the-hype-dies-down/?source=dailyemail
It's behind a paywall, but I'll share a snippet ...
After marching through a couple of upscale Charlotte neighborhoods Monday evening, Panthers linebacker Andre Smith received a call from the team’s owner.
Were this a few years ago and Jerry Richardson had been on the other end of the line, it likely would have been a different conversation.
But Smith, the third-year player from UNC, said he was emboldened by the message he received from David Tepper, who bought the team from Richardson in 2018.
“After we were out at the protest on Monday, David Tepper called me and just telling me how much he supports us and wants us to stay safe, and how important it was for us to keep this movement going even after all of the hype dies down. I really appreciate it,” Smith said Thursday during a Zoom call with Charlotte media.
“The team owner calling me is pretty cool. But (also) an appreciation for his understanding and knowing that it is a tough time,” Smith added. “And coach (Matt) Rhule did a great job, as well. He gave us the freedom. He said (speak) however you feel. Protest peacefully, be safe. So as far as the staff goes, I couldn’t be any more thankful for how they’ve handled this.”
Smith is one of five Panthers players who marched Monday in the wake of the death of George Floyd, a 46-year-old black man who died May 25 when a white Minneapolis police officer pressed his knee to Floyd’s neck for almost nine minutes.
Tepper willingly brought aboard Eric Reid when nobody else would, and then signed him to a nice contract. I'd be surprised if the Panthers didn't have a few players kneeling this season, and Tepper won't be cowed by the emperor like Richardson was.
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NFL admits they were wrong about not supporting player protests. This is a monumental moment
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NFL admits they were wrong about not supporting player protests. This is a monumental moment
Could be. Or it could be empty words because there’s no other option right now. What will tell us if it’s monumental is how they actually act to make a change in the world, as they actually have that platform.
Now my question becomes...since the NFL will seemingly stand by their players if they protest similarly, do we get another big dollar trip by the Vice President of the United States to show up to a game just to walk out in protest of the peaceful protest?
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Could be. Or it could be empty words because there’s no other option right now. What will tell us if it’s monumental is how they actually act to make a change in the world, as they actually have that platform.
Now my question becomes...since the NFL will seemingly stand by their players if they protest similarly, do we get another big dollar trip by the Vice President of the United States to show up to a game just to walk out in protest of the peaceful protest?
#wordsarewind
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Could be. Or it could be empty words because there’s no other option right now. What will tell us if it’s monumental is how they actually act to make a change in the world, as they actually have that platform.
Now my question becomes...since the NFL will seemingly stand by their players if they protest similarly, do we get another big dollar trip by the Vice President of the United States to show up to a game just to walk out in protest of the peaceful protest?
I understand the doubt, I do. I’ve been highly critical of the league.
They could have sat this out. They pretty much just crushed the union again. They have the president standing with the non-kneelers after he says he is ok with non-violent protests.
The league is 75% African-American and they have a hiring problem when it comes to minorities.
Instead, the league rallied around its players and admitted they were wrong. I believe the league believes this and wants to make right. They have to poor no further than the NBA to understand their labor force.
Will their be owners reticent of player protests? Absolutely, but the days of quelling it are over. I truly believe this and as the number one sporting entertainment entity in our nation, they can certainly press their thumb to make positive changes. Should they choose this, like Nike, they’ll win in the end.
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Just saw Goodell read his statement in which “we encourage all to speak out and peacefully protest.”
In other words, whatever peaceful form of protest players want to take, the league not only will be fine with it but also will support it, no matter what any politician says.
Should be interesting.
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Drew Brees has had an interesting few days.
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Drew Brees has had an interesting few days.
Well, one thing we know for certain: Trump does not mind it at all when athletes kneel during the anthem because he just went on national TV a couple days ago and said he is "an ally of all peaceful protesters."
His exact words, and if there's one thing he has proven over and over and over again: He is a man of his word!
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I understand the doubt, I do. I’ve been highly critical of the league.
They could have sat this out. They pretty much just crushed the union again. They have the president standing with the non-kneelers after he says he is ok with non-violent protests.
The league is 75% African-American and they have a hiring problem when it comes to minorities.
Instead, the league rallied around its players and admitted they were wrong. I believe the league believes this and wants to make right. They have to poor no further than the NBA to understand their labor force.
Will their be owners reticent of player protests? Absolutely, but the days of quelling it are over. I truly believe this and as the number one sporting entertainment entity in our nation, they can certainly press their thumb to make positive changes. Should they choose this, like Nike, they’ll win in the end.
I honestly believe burning down precinct 3 in MPLS shocked power to its core. They aren't acting out of altruism, but out of fear. Goodell is scared that if he & the owners try to pull the same sh*t as last time, his HQ would be up in flames.
There's more of us than there are of them, and they're starting to realize it.
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Drew Brees has had an interesting few days.
Brees’ wife put out a beautiful and profound statement that was spot on. It likely can’t undo a lot of the short term damage done, but it was absolutely everything Brees should have said in his initial apology
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The Panthers pulled the plug on their long-standing relationship with home-security company CPI after the company's CEO put his foot in his race-baiting mouth. The Hornets, minor-league baseball Knights and several non-sports companies later joined the Panthers in dropping CPI.
https://www.charlotteobserver.com/sports/charlotte-hornets/article243346791.html?
This is democracy and capitalism at work.
The CEO absolutely had a right to say every word that he did. But he also got a reminder that what you say, especially when you are supposed to be a leader, has consequences.
Those who didn't like what he said took their wallets and went home. This will cost his company big buckaroos.
And it wasn't even worth it to get his thoughts out, because he immediately backtracked like a coward.
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Hearing more and more people, in and out of the sports world, saying that for the NFL to "prove" it means what its leaders are saying about ending racial injustice, Colin Kaepernick has to be given his job back.
Obviously, it's not that easy.
I wish Kaepernick had not been shafted, and I do think he is good enough to be on an NFL roster. However ...
Let's completely take his activism history out of it, and let's say that a good but not great QB hadn't played a single down of football for 3 full seasons. missing the prime of his career. He turns 33 in November.
No NFL team would hand that QB a starting job, that's for sure. A backup job probably would be attainable purely on past performance and athletic ability, but even that isn't a simple situation.
It's a two-way street. What kind of guarantee would that QB want in terms of both money and shot at a starting job? Would he be willing to actually earn a job instead of having it handed to him? Would he be willing to take the kind of very-low-salary contract that most players in his situation would take?
For example, Joe Flacco -- the former Baltimore QB whose Ravens beat Kaepernick's 49ers in the 2013 Super Bowl -- just signed a one-year, $1.5 million deal with Denver and isn't guaranteed anything.
Now, add in that Kaepernick would suck the air out of the room no matter what team he would be on. Kind of like Tebow did, but for different reasons. Even if he was only a third-stringer, he'd be a main focus for the media; his coach and teammates would be asked about him constantly, no matter what else was going on. And that will be doubly true this season, when kneeling during the anthem will be commonplace.
It would take a special team and special coach to want to take that on.
It sucks that he's been railroaded out of the league. But it's not quite as simple as saying, "He should have a job."
I wish the Panthers would sign him. Progressive, outspoken owner who isn't cowed by presidential tweets and who proved it by signing Eric Reid, coach who supposedly is a great "people person," decent but not great QBing situation, frankly could use the attention having Kaepernick would bring. But I doubt very much it will happen, partly because the Panthers wouldn't want to bring in such a distraction with a brand-new coaching staff, and partly because Kaepernick probably wants more money than the Panthers have to give.
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I have wanted the Lions to sign CK to back up Stafford for all 3 of those years. CK wants a chance to start, however, and that isn't happening with Stafford. And you are right about he would suck all of the air out of the room.
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Hearing more and more people, in and out of the sports world, saying that for the NFL to "prove" it means what its leaders are saying about ending racial injustice, Colin Kaepernick has to be given his job back.
Obviously, it's not that easy.
I wish Kaepernick had not been shafted, and I do think he is good enough to be on an NFL roster. However ...
Let's completely take his activism history out of it, and let's say that a good but not great QB hadn't played a single down of football for 3 full seasons. missing the prime of his career. He turns 33 in November.
No NFL team would hand that QB a starting job, that's for sure. A backup job probably would be attainable purely on past performance and athletic ability, but even that isn't a simple situation.
It's a two-way street. What kind of guarantee would that QB want in terms of both money and shot at a starting job? Would he be willing to actually earn a job instead of having it handed to him? Would he be willing to take the kind of very-low-salary contract that most players in his situation would take?
For example, Joe Flacco -- the former Baltimore QB whose Ravens beat Kaepernick's 49ers in the 2013 Super Bowl -- just signed a one-year, $1.5 million deal with Denver and isn't guaranteed anything.
Now, add in that Kaepernick would suck the air out of the room no matter what team he would be on. Kind of like Tebow did, but for different reasons. Even if he was only a third-stringer, he'd be a main focus for the media; his coach and teammates would be asked about him constantly, no matter what else was going on. And that will be doubly true this season, when kneeling during the anthem will be commonplace.
It would take a special team and special coach to want to take that on.
It sucks that he's been railroaded out of the league. But it's not quite as simple as saying, "He should have a job."
I wish the Panthers would sign him. Progressive, outspoken owner who isn't cowed by presidential tweets and who proved it by signing Eric Reid, coach who supposedly is a great "people person," decent but not great QBing situation, frankly could use the attention having Kaepernick would bring. But I doubt very much it will happen, partly because the Panthers wouldn't want to bring in such a distraction with a brand-new coaching staff, and partly because Kaepernick probably wants more money than the Panthers have to give.
CK could use a reparations package from the NFL as a whole.
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https://www.si.com/nfl/2019/03/21/colin-kaepernick-settlement-amount-withdraws-collusion-case-eric-reid
He had a 7 figure one.
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And he walked away from a guaranteed contract with the 49ers.
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I supported CK kneeling long before it was cool. And I believe, as did the court, that there was collusion to keep him out of the NFL. He did receive a large settlement from them.
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And he walked away from a guaranteed contract with the 49ers.
They told him he was going to be cut with the new GM and coach wanting to bring in more of a traditional, drop back passer. He opted out of his last year so he could enter free agency earlier and get a larger deal. I don't believe any of it was guaranteed.
This is something that players do pretty regularly if they have player options.
https://www.businessinsider.com/colin-kaepernick-record-49ers-contract-2017-8
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Most NFL contracts are not "guaranteed." They usually are front-loaded with a signing bonus, but then have little to no guarantees.
For example, McCaffrey becoming the "highest paid back in the NFL" sounds impressive. But he still has 2 years left on his current deal, his new one doesn't kick in until 2022, and he will be 30 by the time it ends. Heck, it's possible that he won't even play Year 2 of his new contract, let alone for the entirety of it.
So yeah ... Kaepernick declined his 2017 player option, but he was not guaranteed anything for that 2017 season anyway, and it appeared he would get cut to save salary cap and to rid the team of an "agitator."
As the Business Insider article said:
The contract gave Kaepernick a $12.3 million signing bonus and a 2014 salary of just $645,000. Those were the only truly guaranteed portions of the contract, despite reports that Kaepernick's deal included a record $61 million in "guaranteed" money. It turned out the $61 million was only guaranteed if he were to suffer a career-ending injury.
Each year of the contract after the first, the 49ers were free to cut Kaepernick and not owe him any more money.
That's SOP in the NFL. Anytime anybody reads about an NFL contract, eyebrows should be raised about what it actually pays the athlete.
Kaepernick was blackballed, plain and simple. Of course he "brought it on himself." It was his decision to lead a movement, one the NFL was not yet ready for, and he wasn't always a great spokesperson for that movement. But let's not pretend he wasn't blackballed because of it.
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Kaepernick was blackballed, plain and simple. Of course he "brought it on himself." It was his decision to lead a movement, one the NFL was not yet ready for, and he wasn't always a great spokesperson for that movement. But let's not pretend he wasn't blackballed because of it.
Bingo. “NFL owners/the league conspired to keep Kaepernick out of a job” and “Kaepernick didn’t always play his cards right or truly take the right steps if he indeed wanted to play again” don’t have to be mutually exclusive statements.
I’m also of the mind that his GF’s statements about him and his mission were probably a key point in escalating the avoidance of him by the league
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Most NFL contracts are not "guaranteed." They usually are front-loaded with a signing bonus, but then have little to no guarantees.
For example, McCaffrey becoming the "highest paid back in the NFL" sounds impressive. But he still has 2 years left on his current deal, his new one doesn't kick in until 2022, and he will be 30 by the time it ends. Heck, it's possible that he won't even play Year 2 of his new contract, let alone for the entirety of it.
So yeah ... Kaepernick declined his 2017 player option, but he was not guaranteed anything for that 2017 season anyway, and it appeared he would get cut to save salary cap and to rid the team of an "agitator."
As the Business Insider article said:
The contract gave Kaepernick a $12.3 million signing bonus and a 2014 salary of just $645,000. Those were the only truly guaranteed portions of the contract, despite reports that Kaepernick's deal included a record $61 million in "guaranteed" money. It turned out the $61 million was only guaranteed if he were to suffer a career-ending injury.
Each year of the contract after the first, the 49ers were free to cut Kaepernick and not owe him any more money.
That's SOP in the NFL. Anytime anybody reads about an NFL contract, eyebrows should be raised about what it actually pays the athlete.
Kaepernick was blackballed, plain and simple. Of course he "brought it on himself." It was his decision to lead a movement, one the NFL was not yet ready for, and he wasn't always a great spokesperson for that movement. But let's not pretend he wasn't blackballed because of it.
Thanks for your obsession with me and pulling out a quote that sultan had just linked to the article.
Must be nice to have so much free time as a househusband.
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Thanks for your obsession with me and pulling out a quote that sultan had just linked to the article.
Must be nice to have so much free time as a househusband.
I wasn't responding to you, Mr. Obsessive. I was in a conversation with reasonable people making reasonable points. You might want to try it sometime.
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Eye'm guessin' Kap duzant got nothin' left in his tank ta offer NFL teems, hey?
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Eye'm guessin' Kap duzant got nothin' left in his tank ta offer NFL teems, hey?
Seriously, Doc ... if you look at the list of backup QBs in the NFL, you don't think he could be one?
For example, the Panthers' backup is a kid they drafted last year who began the year as a third-stringer, moved up due to injuries, and then looked completely lost the one game he played at the end of the season after having taken part in every meeting and practice all year. I would take Kaepernick over Greer in a heartbeat -- or at least would like to see Kaepernick get the chance to earn the backup job over Greer.
That's all assuming Kaepernick was willing to take backup pay and vie for a backup job, which he might not. That's certainly part of all this. But to say he simply isn't good enough to be one of the NFL's best 64 quarterbacks ... that seems a little presumptuous, oona?
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Eye'm guessin' Kap duzant got nothin' left in his tank ta offer NFL teems, hey?
Yeah ... 32 years old is ancient for a quarterback.
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Seriously, Doc ... if you look at the list of backup QBs in the NFL, you don't think he could be one?
For example, the Panthers' backup is a kid they drafted last year who began the year as a third-stringer, moved up due to injuries, and then looked completely lost the one game he played at the end of the season after having taken part in every meeting and practice all year. I would take Kaepernick over Greer in a heartbeat -- or at least would like to see Kaepernick get the chance to earn the backup job over Greer.
That's all assuming Kaepernick was willing to take backup pay and vie for a backup job, which he might not. That's certainly part of all this. But to say he simply isn't good enough to be one of the NFL's best 64 quarterbacks ... that seems a little presumptuous, oona?
that's all fine and good 82, but "extra baggage is all part of the deal. let's say you are the best university professor in the world, but ya just tweeted out "all lives mater" or i would never kneel for the national anthem. are schools bangin on your door to bring you in?
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that's all fine and good 82, but "extra baggage is all part of the deal. let's say you are the best university professor in the world, but ya just tweeted out "all lives mater" or i would never kneel for the national anthem. are schools bangin on your door to bring you in?
Do failed sportswriter next.
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that's all fine and good 82, but "extra baggage is all part of the deal. let's say you are the best university professor in the world, but ya just tweeted out "all lives mater" or i would never kneel for the national anthem. are schools bangin on your door to bring you in?
The point is what he did shouldn't have been considered "baggage" to begin with.
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Do failed sportswriter next.
Your obsession with me is beyond weird. I ignore you except for when you say something about me, but you can't help yourself.
Your bullying tactics won't work any better than your buddy BJ's did.
Hey man, I know you don't like me, and I'm beyond caring about that. I tried having a discussion with you via PM so we didn't do this within threads, but you blew me off.
Anyway, whatever you might perceive my faults might be, at least I didn't use The Last Dance comment stream to make a racist comment about Jordan.
Wonder when the series will get to MJ and all the white women he was with while still married to Juanita.
So congrats for having that character-revealing statement on your resume. It's always good to know who the racists are.
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And he walked away from a guaranteed contract with the 49ers.
The 49ers told him they were going to cut him, but gave him a chance to opt out first.
John Lynch later confirmed this.
"We gave him the option: 'You can opt out, we can release you, whatever.' And he chose to opt out, but that was just a formality."
https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/the-49ers-wouldve-cut-colin-kaepernick-if-he-hadnt-opted-out-of-his-contract/
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Kap hasn't played competitively in 4 years. There isn't enough WD-40 to get that machine hummin' again, hey?
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Your obsession with me is beyond weird. I ignore you except for when you say something about me, but you can't help yourself.
Your bullying tactics won't work any better than your buddy BJ's did.
Hey man, I know you don't like me, and I'm beyond caring about that. I tried having a discussion with you via PM so we didn't do this within threads, but you blew me off.
Anyway, whatever you might perceive my faults might be, at least I didn't use The Last Dance comment stream to make a racist comment about Jordan.
So congrats for having that character-revealing statement on your resume. It's always good to know who the racists are.
Poor nads, everyone is always picking on him.
You ain't no angel either.
*inventor of slut shaming. (EA says hi.)
*ghoul that wishes death upon entire US cities.
*subject to multiple bans, because you lack maturity and self control.
I really dont give a shït what you or anyone else thinks. Unlike the super smart and serious crew, this all an act for me. This place has been and will be a joke, and I treat it as such.
But keep patting yourselves on the back, smart people. You guys got it all figured out. Enjoy the leftwing circlejerk that you've created for yourself.
As for nads, I will miss your amusing antidotes about your wife, having a beer with your fellow emasculated buddies, and your views on MyPantherstm.
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As for nads, I will miss your amusing antidotes about your wife, having a beer with your fellow emasculated buddies, and your views on MyPantherstm.
See ya. Enjoy hanging out with your racist friends.
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Poor nads, everyone is always picking on him.
You ain't no angel either.
*inventor of slut shaming. (EA says hi.)
*ghoul that wishes death upon entire US cities.
*subject to multiple bans, because you lack maturity and self control.
I really dont give a shït what you or anyone else thinks. Unlike the super smart and serious crew, this all an act for me. This place has been and will be a joke, and I treat it as such.
But keep patting yourselves on the back, smart people. You guys got it all figured out. Enjoy the leftwing circlejerk that you've created for yourself.
As for nads, I will miss your amusing antidotes about your wife, having a beer with your fellow emasculated buddies, and your views on MyPantherstm.
Who woulda thunk that being called a racist after making a racist comment would set you off so.
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Wow.
What happened here?
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Poor nads, everyone is always picking on him.
You ain't no angel either.
*inventor of slut shaming. (EA says hi.)
*ghoul that wishes death upon entire US cities.
*subject to multiple bans, because you lack maturity and self control.
I really dont give a shït what you or anyone else thinks. Unlike the super smart and serious crew, this all an act for me. This place has been and will be a joke, and I treat it as such.
But keep patting yourselves on the back, smart people. You guys got it all figured out. Enjoy the leftwing circlejerk that you've created for yourself.
As for nads, I will miss your amusing antidotes about your wife, having a beer with your fellow emasculated buddies, and your views on MyPantherstm.
Maybe take a break, bud.
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It’s not Ziggy’s fault. If the crazy lefts on here wouldn’t make him post, he wouldn’t do it.
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I feel for Ziggy. I remember when I was defending CK and the righty circle jerk was in full roar. Very frustrating. Not my style to lash out. I tend to walk away. But I understand the impulse.
Right now the board isn't fun for him because the political winds are blowing against him. And politics of COVID and protests have taken over the board.
I think this highlights the wisdom of the mods banning politics prior to 3 months ago. Egos are getting bruised. Lines are being drawn. We aren't ever going to be able to read a post about MU basketball without remembering for a second political insults that were hurled.
Hang in there Ziggy.
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Kap hasn't played competitively in 4 years. There isn't enough WD-40 to get that machine hummin' again, hey?
Some people have fought and bled for something enduring and real.
Freedom ain't free, hey Doc?
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that's all fine and good 82, but "extra baggage is all part of the deal. let's say you are the best university professor in the world, but ya just tweeted out "all lives mater" or i would never kneel for the national anthem. are schools bangin on your door to bring you in?
Hey rocket. I specifically acknowledged his baggage and said I could see why it would be an issue. So not sure what you're arguing with me about here.
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Some people have fought and bled for something enduring and real.
Freedom ain't free, hey Doc?
Yeah equality and justice ain’t enduring or real. Keep minorities oppressed please!
::) :o
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Some people have fought and bled for something enduring and real.
Freedom ain't free, hey Doc?
Exactly.
Thank you for fighting for Colin Kaepernick's right to protest.
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Some people have fought and bled for something enduring and real.
Freedom ain't free, hey Doc?
Imperialism is Freedom now?
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Always have to fight for your right to not have your neck knelt on for 8:46.
CK's kneeling was always about BLM. Everything else was a creation of the echo chamber.
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Outside Panthers stadium stood a statue of former owner Jerry Richardson, who was forced to sell the team a few years back because of numerous racist and sexist words and deeds.
His statue was just removed from the stadium gates, and it will not return.
https://www.charlotteobserver.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/scott-fowler/article243442916.html?
Good riddance.
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Texans coach/GM Bill O'Brien says he will take a knee alongside his players if they, as expected, conduct a peaceful protest during the national anthem this season.
https://www.houstonchronicle.com/texas-sports-nation/texans/article/Bill-O-Brien-will-take-a-knee-with-players-as-15335910.php
Texans coach Bill O’Brien is so passionate about fighting racial prejudice, getting justice for George Floyd and participating in the McNair family’s condemnation of systemic racism in America that he’ll join his players when they’re expected to kneel during the national anthem this season.
“Yeah, I’ll take a knee — I’m all for it,” O’Brien said about players kneeling. “The players have a right to protest, a right to be heard and a right to be who they are. They’re not taking a knee because they’re against our flag. They’re taking a knee because they haven’t been treated equally in this country for over 400 years.”
I think a few other coaches will do the same. They want to be on their players' side, and also on the right side of history.
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So all of these NFL teams are closing their facilites on Juneteeth Day.
It seems so NFL to think that closing facilities on a Friday in summer is a significant step.
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Symbols matter.
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Symbols matter.
Agree completely. I would suggest closing your facility on a Friday in summer isn't very high on the symbol-meter though.
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Agree completely. I would suggest closing your facility on a Friday in summer isn't very high on the symbol-meter though.
I'd venture to guess 32 NFL coaches and their staffs disagree.
Don't get me wrong ... this isn't a huge deal. It's a small step. But it's not meaningless, either. Especially with no minicamps or OTAs, giving away time isn't trivial.
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Agree completely. I would suggest closing your facility on a Friday in summer isn't very high on the symbol-meter though.
Didn't say it was a huge symbol. Not closing in the current environment would be a much larger symbol.
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49ers player tests positive. He was working out with 16 other players.
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Letter to the editor in today's Charlotte Observer:
I am a military veteran who served two tours in Vietnam. I was wounded in 1968 and witnessed the death of fellow soldiers. I understand the cost required to preserve what our flag represents.
When the NFL kneeling protests started a few years ago, I wasn't sure it was the right venue. But after much soul-searching, I asked myself, "Why not?" Kneeling is a solemn position, a sign of homage. Sure, it's a protest, but it's a very respectful protest.
Where I see disrespect is when some members of our society are not afforded "liberty and justice for all." Let's be honest. It's not now, and has never been, an even playing field. Taking a knee to request our nation live up to its values and ideals is a patriotic act I can stand behind.
- Patrick McLaughlin, Charlotte
People forget that it was a soldier who advised Kaepernick to kneel, that it was a respectful way to protest.
If there are pro sports in 2020, folks are gonna see a lot of kneeling. So better to accept it for what it is than freak out.
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Letter to the editor in today's Charlotte Observer:
I am a military veteran who served two tours in Vietnam. I was wounded in 1968 and witnessed the death of fellow soldiers. I understand the cost required to preserve what our flag represents.
When the NFL kneeling protests started a few years ago, I wasn't sure it was the right venue. But after much soul-searching, I asked myself, "Why not?" Kneeling is a solemn position, a sign of homage. Sure, it's a protest, but it's a very respectful protest.
Where I see disrespect is when some members of our society are not afforded "liberty and justice for all." Let's be honest. It's not now, and has never been, an even playing field. Taking a knee to request our nation live up to its values and ideals is a patriotic act I can stand behind.
- Patrick McLaughlin, Charlotte
People forget that it was a soldier who advised Kaepernick to kneel, that it was a respectful way to protest.
If there are pro sports in 2020, folks are gonna see a lot of kneeling. So better to accept it for what it is than freak out.
Forgetting has nothing to do it.
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Cam signs 1 year, $7.5 million deal with the Pats.
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Cam signs 1 year, $7.5 million deal with the Pats.
And there goes the theory that Flacco was signed and Cam wasn’t for racial reasons. Cam got five times the contract.
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And there goes the theory that Flacco was signed and Cam wasn’t for racial reasons. Cam got five times the contract.
Hope Cam kills it in New England
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And there goes the theory that Flacco was signed and Cam wasn’t for racial reasons. Cam got five times the contract.
Cam signed for the minimum. He can earn up to 7.5 million through incentives. Not sure what those incentives are yet.
That's not to say race was a reason, but 7.5 million is likely not the value of the contract.
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Cam signed for the minimum. He can earn up to 7.5 million through incentives. Not sure what those incentives are yet.
That's not to say race was a reason, but 7.5 million is likely not the value of the contract.
Fair, but Flacco is only guaranteed $550K. So Cam’s earning potential is far greater than Flacco’s in his contract. Also, who knows how easy some of those incentives are to hit.
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Fair, but Flacco is only guaranteed $550K. So Cam’s earning potential is far greater than Flacco’s in his contract. Also, who knows how easy some of those incentives are to hit.
Right. I'm guessing some of those incentive goals will be automatic assuming health.
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@ABC7News: JUST IN: @FedEx has asked the Washington @Redskins to change its name. Here is the statement:
“We have communicated to the team in Washington our request that they change the team name.“
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@ABC7News: JUST IN: @FedEx has asked the Washington @Redskins to change its name. Here is the statement:
“We have communicated to the team in Washington our request that they change the team name.“
Apparently Nike pulled all Redskins apparel from their website
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Apparently Nike pulled all Redskins apparel from their website
Holy hell its actually going to happen this time.
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Would be the end of a proud era for a team nickname created by a loud and pro racist segregationist who hired a con artist coach, who had masqueraded as a Native American most of his adult life, to coach his newly named squad. Some colleges used the name and it was more culturally insensitive than anything, thus they’ve since changed. Redskins was founded in ill will from the jump.
I do worry how lame a new name will be given Wizards and Nationals the last times around for DC teams have been milquetoast
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Lots of names floating around, including Warriors. This one is interesting:
https://twitter.com/OllieConnolly/status/1278821758053818369?s=19
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Lots of names floating around, including Warriors. This one is interesting:
https://twitter.com/OllieConnolly/status/1278821758053818369?s=19
I like this one. Other than people being upset that the name changed at all, not sure what problem people could have with this as a replacement.
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I like this one. Other than people being upset that the name changed at all, not sure what problem people could have with this as a replacement.
Oh I'm sure some will find something to be upset about...
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Sentinels.
Put Shane Falco behind center.
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I like this one. Other than people being upset that the name changed at all, not sure what problem people could have with this as a replacement.
I do love the color scheme. Bring back the radioshack helmets.
(https://content.sportslogos.net/logos/7/168/full/qqsnye7igxo8ec46p6i8.gif)
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Shockin' knowon has fooked wit da Braves orr der tomahawk chop lately, hey?
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Shockin' knowon has fooked wit da Braves orr der tomahawk chop lately, hey?
Not really.
Braves isn't a slur.
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Washington Radiants
As in, the shining city upon a hill.
Fight me.l
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Washington 45’s
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Not really.
Braves isn't a slur.
Nor is Warriors, hey?
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Lots of names floating around, including Warriors. This one is interesting:
https://twitter.com/OllieConnolly/status/1278821758053818369?s=19
Oh that's cool as hell. They should just announce the change today and it would be shocking how quickly it would leave the news cycle. It sucks that Snyder is able to be such a dipcrap for so long then profit on all the gear sales if they make that move.
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Nor is Warriors, hey?
Nor is Warriors.
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If only the MU powers that be had gotten rid of all of the inappropriate imagery 40 years ago. If they had switched the imagery over to, say, Joan of Arc, MU would have been years ahead of the curve and would still be the Warriors. Alas. So, Golden Eagles it is.
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If only the MU powers that be had gotten rid of all of the inappropriate imagery 40 years ago. If they had switched the imagery over to, say, Joan of Arc, MU would have been years ahead of the curve and would still be the Warriors. Alas. So, Golden Eagles it is.
the main reason Native American imagery in 1954 was chosen was to ride the coattails of the Milwaukee Braves. There was a lot of work that went into deciding if Native American imagery could be separated from Warriors, both in 1993 and again in 2005. The answer was "no." Even in 2006, there were white kids wearing Native headdresses to games (and being encouraged and defended by Dr. McAdams after the University asked them to stop).
And, the guy who portrayed the "First Warrior" and was the basis for the logo came out in support of ending the use of "Warriors." https://fox6now.com/2013/12/04/man-who-was-face-of-marquette-warriors-shares-take-on-mascot-debate/
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the main reason Native American imagery in 1954 was chosen was to ride the coattails of the Milwaukee Braves. There was a lot of work that went into deciding if Native American imagery could be separated from Warriors, both in 1993 and again in 2005. The answer was "no." Even in 2006, there were white kids wearing Native headdresses to games (and being encouraged and defended by Dr. McAdams after the University asked them to stop).
And, the guy who portrayed the "First Warrior" and was the basis for the logo came out in support of ending the use of "Warriors." https://fox6now.com/2013/12/04/man-who-was-face-of-marquette-warriors-shares-take-on-mascot-debate/
In 1993, if they would have gone with a different logo and stuck with Warriors, no one would have been wearing a headress in 2010.
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In 1993, if they would have gone with a different logo and stuck with Warriors, no one would have been wearing a headress in 2010.
There would have been some idiots that remained, but generally I agree. Most importantly, it would have put the warriors debate to rest.
My guess is the school wanted to divest its Christian image from war entirely which is why we got the milquetoast Golden Eagle that we see today.
We could have gone with something like this:
(https://media1.thehungryjpeg.com/thumbs2/800_3680450_fgyea2zpy8oggqcrzzteimtlwwk0k1ye17kymaka_warrior-angel-mascot-logo-design.jpg)
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Today's The Onion said to stop being offensive they were changing their name from Washington Redskins to DC Redskins.
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The more I read about this Mahomes deal, the more I don’t understand it. It feels like a lot of high dollar one year deals that doesn’t offer him much guarantee, at least compared to the $450M number.
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The more I read about this Mahomes deal, the more I don’t understand it. It feels like a lot of high dollar one year deals that doesn’t offer him much guarantee, at least compared to the $450M number.
His upfront money is $63 million. His total guaranteed money is $140 million to be paid by 2022.
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https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/redskins/2020/07/08/washington-new-nfl-team-name-warriors-is-non-starter/5389663002/ (https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/redskins/2020/07/08/washington-new-nfl-team-name-warriors-is-non-starter/5389663002/)
Looks like Marquette was ahead of the curve.
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Washington changing name in next couple days?
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Washington changing name in next couple days?
Announced that they were retiring it today. They announced this by using the current logo on their letterhead and using the existing name in their press release multiple times.
Also, made a point to mention Ron Rivera as part of the new nickname process.
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I think Rivera is a good coach. But they kind of are turning the whole show over to the guy. I don't think having him oversee this process a few weeks before training camp is the best idea.
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I think Rivera is a good coach. But they kind of are turning the whole show over to the guy. I don't think having him oversee this process a few weeks before training camp is the best idea.
To me the Rivera thing is to publicize there is a minority involved in the process and highlight him hiring a minority coach. I don’t know if Rivera actually has anymore say than a normal coach.
Although, I may just be too cynical. The whole press release without any quotes from Snyder and no press conference tells me he is doing this only because of the pressure from outside.
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To me the Rivera thing is to publicize there is a minority involved in the process and highlight him hiring a minority coach. I don’t know if Rivera actually has anymore say than a normal coach.
Although, I may just be too cynical. The whole press release without any quotes from Snyder and no press conference tells me he is doing this only because of the pressure from outside.
I can't remember where I read it, but the gist of the article was that Rivera is pretty much the defacto team President right now. They haven't replaced Bruce Allen, and Snyder has largely removed himself from day-to-day operations, so it has been falling to Rivera - who I think reports directly to Snyder.
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I can't remember where I read it, but the gist of the article was that Rivera is pretty much the defacto team President right now. They haven't replaced Bruce Allen, and Snyder has largely removed himself from day-to-day operations, so it has been falling to Rivera - who I think reports directly to Snyder.
Any coach with options (i.e. Ron Rivera) wouldn't go to Washington under any other circumstances.
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I think Rivera is a good coach. But they kind of are turning the whole show over to the guy. I don't think having him oversee this process a few weeks before training camp is the best idea.
Just last week on WSCR, Rivera did the "now is not the right time" thing when asked about changing the name.
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To me the Rivera thing is to publicize there is a minority involved in the process and highlight him hiring a minority coach. I don’t know if Rivera actually has anymore say than a normal coach.
Although, I may just be too cynical. The whole press release without any quotes from Snyder and no press conference tells me he is doing this only because of the pressure from outside.
Are you kidding? That’s not cynical at all, that’s just the truth of Dan Snyder. He’s owned the Redskins for 20 years. If he truly cared he could have done it years ago. This is 1000% his hand being forced, largely by Fred Smith who is richer, more powerful, and better connected than Snyder is, even if he’s only a minority owner.
My sister’s BF is from the DC area and a diehard Skins fan. Even 4th of July weekend he told me “I wouldn’t mind, I love the team, but I understand and if they could still keep the same colors it would be fine and could be cool...but let’s be honest, Snyder is too much of a complete and utter stubborn petulant pretty boy to change anything. This will be nothing when he refuses to do anything. He will just tell FedEx he will find a new sponsor if he has any opportunity to at all”....and here we are.
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Sounds like a bombshell article coming by the end of the week about Washington. Rumors on Twitter of sexual harassment involving Snyder and others. Someone even threw out Epstein’s name.
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perfect! the warchington redhotties
betcha they handle this one differently than uncle joe's
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perfect! the warchington redhotties
betcha they handle this one differently than uncle joe's
Probably different than Trump's too
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Sounds like a bombshell article coming by the end of the week about Washington. Rumors on Twitter of sexual harassment involving Snyder and others. Someone even threw out Epstein’s name.
I have a feeling that the Washington franchise won't be Snyder's by the end of the year. Which is fine because someone needs to bring that franchise back.
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I have a feeling that the Washington franchise won't be Snyder's by the end of the year. Which is fine because someone needs to bring that franchise back.
Related...
Adam Schefter @AdamSchefter
Minority shareholders of Washington’s NFL team have hired the investment bank, Moag & Company, to vet buyers and to sell their stake in the team, per a league source.
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Related...
Adam Schefter @AdamSchefter
Minority shareholders of Washington’s NFL team have hired the investment bank, Moag & Company, to vet buyers and to sell their stake in the team, per a league source.
So the rumors of something big dropping on Friday are probably true.
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So the rumors of something big dropping on Friday are probably true.
They’ve been claiming “big news about to drop” since Sunday night. The day it was happening keeps getting pushed back. I’m not doubt there is some serious stuff, but it’s annoying how many vaguely phrased promises are being splashed about with nothing actually coming out as they kick the can down the line
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In early May I bought tickets to the Colts v Packers game in Indy scheduled for November 22 on Ticketmaster/NFL exchange.
Today, Ticketmaster sent me this:
"Dear Indianapolis Colts Fan,
Along with the Indianapolis Colts, Ticketmaster's highest priority is helping to keep everyone safe as we start getting fans back in the stands. It's in this spirit that the Indianapolis Colts have updated their event safety protocols to reduce seating capacity for the upcoming season.
Because of the need to reduce the seating capacity to allow for social distancing, all current Indianapolis Colts ticket holders will be issued a refund and your tickets will no longer be valid. You will receive a full refund (including fees and taxes) via your original payment method within the next 3-7 business days. Please note that to be eligible for the refund, you must have purchased your tickets directly from Ticketmaster.
If Indianapolis Colts tickets become available, we will send fans who previously purchased tickets a heads up email, so keep an eye on your inbox."
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Related...
Adam Schefter @AdamSchefter
Minority shareholders of Washington’s NFL team have hired the investment bank, Moag & Company, to vet buyers and to sell their stake in the team, per a league source.
I have no knowledge of 'big news' or 'no big news'. That being said I wouldn't interpret this as related necessarily as it relates to anything being dropped. This is the natural next step to an already announced plan by the minority owners to sell their stake.
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https://twitter.com/washingtonpost/status/1283876236725452803?s=19
Washington Post Story.
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https://twitter.com/washingtonpost/status/1283876236725452803?s=19
Washington Post Story.
Behind a paywall, of course. Here is the headline.
Exclusive: Fifteen women who worked for Redskins allege sexual harassment by former scouts and members of owner Daniel Snyder’s inner circle
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https://twitter.com/washingtonpost/status/1283876236725452803?s=19
Washington Post Story.
The Pro Football Talk version:
The much-anticipated Washington Post exposé of the Washington NFL team has been published, and it details widespread sexual harassment within the organization.
Describing women who worked for the franchise, the Post reports, “they cried about the realization their dream job of working in the NFL came with what they characterized as relentless sexual harassment and verbal abuse that was ignored — and in some cases, condoned — by top team executives.”
In all, the report cites 15 different women who say they were sexually harassed while working for the team. Among the employees accused of sexual harassment is Larry Michael, the team’s radio announcer, who abruptly announced this week that he was leaving the team.
Also named in the article are two employees who were recently fired, director of pro personnel Alex Santos and assistant director of pro personnel Richard Mann II.
Team owner Daniel Snyder refused to be interviewed for the report. But he won’t be able to stay silent for long, as this will become the talk of the NFL — and is likely to lead to calls for Snyder to sell the team, whether he wants to or not.
Marge Schott
Donald Sterling
Jerry Richardson
Dan Snyder
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They’ve been claiming “big news about to drop” since Sunday night. The day it was happening keeps getting pushed back. I’m not doubt there is some serious stuff, but it’s annoying how many vaguely phrased promises are being splashed about with nothing actually coming out as they kick the can down the line
....aaaaand that’s why. This is not good, certainly wrong and inappropriate behavior, but very little will come of it and this is far a bombshell from making Snyder give up the team unless there is more coming
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....aaaaand that’s why. This is not good, certainly wrong and inappropriate behavior, but very little will come of it and this is far a bombshell from making Snyder give up the team unless there is more coming
He's being accused of overlooking more than a decade of sexual harassment and verbal abuse of 15 women within his company, including by members of his inner circle.
If you don't think that puts him in jeopardy in today's environment, you're not reading the room.
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He's being accused of overlooking more than a decade of sexual harassment and verbal abuse of 15 women within his company, including by members of his inner circle.
If you don't think that puts him in jeopardy in today's environment, you're not reading the room.
So was Cuban with the Mavs. Bob Kraft was in a criminal sex scandal. The Bengals has cheerleaders speaking out on rampant sexual harassment in the organization being normal. The Redskins already got under fire for inappropriate conduct involving cheerleaders. That vanished People will get fired. Concessions will he made, and Snyder will skate.
Maybe you’re right, but outside of an old and decrepit Jerry Richardson, there’s no precedent for Snyder to be toast. Especially when you’re as stubborn, ornery, and combative as him
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So was Cuban with the Mavs. Bob Kraft was in a criminal sex scandal. The Bengals has cheerleaders speaking out on rampant sexual harassment in the organization being normal. The Redskins already got under fire for inappropriate conduct involving cheerleaders. That vanished People will get fired. Concessions will he made, and Snyder will skate.
Maybe you’re right, but outside of an old and decrepit Jerry Richardson, there’s no precedent for Snyder to be toast. Especially when you’re as stubborn, ornery, and combative as him
With all due respect, most of these are bad comparisons.
Bob Kraft got a rub and a tug. That's not quite the same as 10+ years of pervasive harassment of female employees, right?
The Bengals cheerleaders claims were not against members of the organization, and certainly not high-ranking members. Same with the Washington cheerleaders.
The only situation remotely close is that of Cuban, but he didn't escape unscathed and the environment has changed even since then.
My guess is the rest of the league's owners would be happy to be rid of Snyder and this may give them their ammo to do it.
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Snyder is a POS and that’s never been in doubt. None of this is entirely surprising given that. But all the rumors and speculation leading up the last few days had the feel of direct shots to or blowback onto Snyder. Reading this just feels like there will be plenty of plausible deniability for Snyder to wiggle out of.
Changes will be made. The Washington TBDs can institute all sorts of protocol and changes to usher in the new era with the team name change, while putting bad apples on the discard heap.
But let’s see, if we get Fred Smith getting vocal and arming for battle, then maybe something happens. I hope I’m wrong. I just think the NFL is the worst about follow through in these sort of matters
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The article is bad, but not a bombshell by any means. It’s sad and wrong that I’m not shocked a Daniel Snyder run organization hired a bunch of terrible guys and harassment ran wild. No female employee deserves that treatment. I read the article and thought the hype didn’t get met.
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But let’s see, if we get Fred Smith getting vocal and arming for battle, then maybe something happens. I hope I’m wrong. I just think the NFL is the worst about follow through in these sort of matters
But Fred Smith announced he is selling on July 5th. If I were betting that's how he is flushing Snyder. Forcing the name change and then forcing him to 1. take on a new minority investor (which will have to reconcile this issue) or 2. Sell to a new group.
Both of those can be an outcome. But one of them would take attracting money that is OK with Snyder continuing as the lead.
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I guess that's the sad thing about this world. Sexual harassment for over a decade and it's considered obviously a bad situation for these women but isn't considered a bombshell or shocking.
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I guess that's the sad thing about this world. Sexual harassment for over a decade and it's considered obviously a bad situation for these women but isn't considered a bombshell or shocking.
Was enough for Jerry Richardson though. He had racist baggage too, though.
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I guess that's the sad thing about this world. Sexual harassment for over a decade and it's considered obviously a bad situation for these women but isn't considered a bombshell or shocking.
Precedent for the NFL is that if there's no video evidence, then no significant punishment
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Was enough for Jerry Richardson though. He had racist baggage too, though.
And Richardson, himself, was the worst of the sexual harassers. It doesn't look like Snyder himself was, based on what we know so far; maybe there's more, though.
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But Fred Smith announced he is selling on July 5th. If I were betting that's how he is flushing Snyder. Forcing the name change and then forcing him to 1. take on a new minority investor (which will have to reconcile this issue) or 2. Sell to a new group.
Both of those can be an outcome. But one of them would take attracting money that is OK with Snyder continuing as the lead.
Discussions of minority investors selling have been ongoing for over a year. Fred Smith is a bit busy today explaining why he donated to anti-Black Lives Matter Senator Kelly Loeffler. (Including a donation on Juneteenth)
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i wonder how NBC is going to cover this one...perfect timing for matt lauer to revive his career
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Discussions of minority investors selling have been ongoing for over a year. Fred Smith is a bit busy today explaining why he donated to anti-Black Lives Matter Senator Kelly Loeffler. (Including a donation on Juneteenth)
That’s a reach and a half. A $65B corporation made a $15K contribution (of which they make countless across political races, parties, and beliefs), the last of which was weeks prior to her statements. It’s not like Fred Smith was personally handing her checks after her WNBA comments.
But agreed that outside investor money will be the most potentially impactful force if anything is gonna be done with Napoleon Snyder
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https://twitter.com/JJWatt/status/1283826377230356483?s=19
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https://twitter.com/JJWatt/status/1283826377230356483?s=19
Good to know that the most wealthy and powerful organization in US sports has taken the last few months to do...seemingly nothing
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Good to know that the most wealthy and powerful organization in US sports has taken the last few months to do...seemingly nothing
A common theme from leadership in this country.
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Good to know that the most wealthy and powerful organization in US sports has taken the last few months to do...seemingly nothing
Just like college football, they simply thought that with time things would be figured out. Hope isn't a plan however.
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Good to know that the most wealthy and powerful organization in US sports has taken the last few months to do...seemingly nothing
There's an owner's meeting today.
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Good to know that the most wealthy and powerful organization in US sports has taken the last few months to do...seemingly nothing
Very perplexing - though not surprising. Camps start to open on Monday and players have received nothing from the league at all regarding any and all issues related to Covid.
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Woody Johnson J-E-T-S
https://twitter.com/jmhansler/status/1285940837839507458?s=19
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Woody Johnson J-E-T-S
https://twitter.com/jmhansler/status/1285940837839507458?s=19
Any grown man who goes by "Woody" is bound to have issues.
Except for this guy...
(https://images-cdn.9gag.com/photo/arorZoy_460s.jpg)
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I like Jamal Adams, but that is A LOT to give up for a safety.
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I like Jamal Adams, but that is A LOT to give up for a safety.
It's a whole lot to give up just for the right to reset the market for him, to be sure
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I like Jamal Adams, but that is A LOT to give up for a safety.
Yup. He does do more than your typical safety with his pass rush ability, but still ... two firsts and then some for a safety is nuts. Plus, you wonder how this affects their ability to re-sign Clowney.
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Eddie Goldman, Devin Funchess (among others) opt out of 2020 season. Patriots up to six guys opting out.
I don’t blame any of them.
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Eddie Goldman, Devin Funchess (among others) opt out of 2020 season. Patriots up to six guys opting out.
I don’t blame any of them.
To be perfectly honest, they're stupid. They're throwing money away. Ride it out, and WHEN things go bad you pull out. Good faith is important in contract law. I understand their concerns, i do... but it is important when you make your stand.
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To be perfectly honest, they're stupid. They're throwing money away. Ride it out, and WHEN things go bad you pull out. Good faith is important in contract law. I understand their concerns, i do... but it is important when you make your stand.
They should do whatever they’re comfortable with. If they have enough money, are responsible with it, and decide it’s not worth the risk, good for them. If teams decide not to pursue them in the future because they sat out during a worldwide pandemic, so be it.
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They should do whatever they’re comfortable with. If they have enough money, are responsible with it, and decide it’s not worth the risk, good for them. If teams decide not to pursue them in the future because they sat out during a worldwide pandemic, so be it.
Right, but they're being stupid. There is plenty of time for all of that. Its July. Preseason is already canceled.
These guys aren't chess players.
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To be perfectly honest, they're stupid. They're throwing money away. Ride it out, and WHEN things go bad you pull out. Good faith is important in contract law. I understand their concerns, i do... but it is important when you make your stand.
Players have until Aug. 3 (next Monday) to declare if they're in or out. If they do, they'll receive a small (relatively) stipend and their contract will carry over to 2021. After that, with a few exceptions , players can't opt out without being in violation of their contract. That means not only won't they be getting their game checks, but teams also could seek to recoup past signing and roster bonuses.
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I've haven't opted out, hey?
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I've haven't opted out, hey?
You need a better union.
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I've haven't opted out, hey?
No one is stopping you, hey?
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They should do whatever they’re comfortable with. If they have enough money, are responsible with it, and decide it’s not worth the risk, good for them. If teams decide not to pursue them in the future because they sat out during a worldwide pandemic, so be it.
Yup. Many of these guys that I’ve seen opting out have newborns or family members with preexisting conditions. I don’t fault them for making the decision.
We are expecting our first child in a few weeks. I’m certainly taking more precautions than if we weren’t expecting. I limit myself to one errand every few days and haven’t done any restaurants. If we weren’t expecting, I’d probably branch out a bit more. So, I’m expecting different people having much different risk thresholds.
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thank God for golf
it's going to take a lot to get me back to baseball basketball(NBA) and football
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No one is stopping you, hey?
Not even a remote consideration. My commitment to my profession and those who have trusted me with their healthcare is the essence of my being.
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Yup. Many of these guys that I’ve seen opting out have newborns or family members with preexisting conditions. I don’t fault them for making the decision.
We are expecting our first child in a few weeks. I’m certainly taking more precautions than if we weren’t expecting. I limit myself to one errand every few days and haven’t done any restaurants. If we weren’t expecting, I’d probably branch out a bit more. So, I’m expecting different people having much different risk thresholds.
Congrats, Cheebs. Man, your life is gonna change - mostly for the better, though.
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Kenny Clark signs extension. Record contract for a NT.
Great for him and the Packers. Really good guy and excellent and still young player.
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Green Bay Packer President/CEO Mark Murphy 3 minute video on societal issues:
https://twitter.com/packers/status/1299838491401097216?s=19
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Some real Tom Brady vibes from Kirk today https://nypost.com/2020/09/02/kirk-cousins-is-fine-with-getting-coronavirus-if-i-die-i-die/ (https://nypost.com/2020/09/02/kirk-cousins-is-fine-with-getting-coronavirus-if-i-die-i-die/)
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Some real Tom Brady vibes from Kirk today https://nypost.com/2020/09/02/kirk-cousins-is-fine-with-getting-coronavirus-if-i-die-i-die/ (https://nypost.com/2020/09/02/kirk-cousins-is-fine-with-getting-coronavirus-if-i-die-i-die/)
As a Packer fan, we need to keep Cousins alive. Put him and Mitch into a bubble.
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Some real Tom Brady vibes from Kirk today https://nypost.com/2020/09/02/kirk-cousins-is-fine-with-getting-coronavirus-if-i-die-i-die/ (https://nypost.com/2020/09/02/kirk-cousins-is-fine-with-getting-coronavirus-if-i-die-i-die/)
Wonder if Vikings fans care
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Some real Tom Brady vibes from Kirk today https://nypost.com/2020/09/02/kirk-cousins-is-fine-with-getting-coronavirus-if-i-die-i-die/ (https://nypost.com/2020/09/02/kirk-cousins-is-fine-with-getting-coronavirus-if-i-die-i-die/)
(https://media1.tenor.com/images/a18c95f2da0033793bb091cb3a07eae9/tenor.gif?itemid=16824780)
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As a Packer fan, we need to keep Cousins alive. Put him and Mitch into a bubble.
Beat me to it. Don’t want either team getting a QB capable of sustained success.
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Kirk's pops is a nut job too
https://twitter.com/RzstProgramming/status/1301237629275590656?s=19 (https://twitter.com/RzstProgramming/status/1301237629275590656?s=19)
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Kirk's pops is a nut job too
https://twitter.com/RzstProgramming/status/1301237629275590656?s=19 (https://twitter.com/RzstProgramming/status/1301237629275590656?s=19)
Should be a big hit in the locker room
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Kirk's pops is a nut job too
https://twitter.com/RzstProgramming/status/1301237629275590656?s=19 (https://twitter.com/RzstProgramming/status/1301237629275590656?s=19)
Great. Now I feel sorry for Kirk.
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People love to tell athletes to shut up and dribble, but does anyone ever tell pastors to shut up and past?
(https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-f2e2d07c500e5ef51efda4f4ca45884f)
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Great. Now I feel sorry for Kirk.
Oh, I don't. He is fully involved. I feel as bad for Kirk as I did for Drew Brees.
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Kirk's pops is a nut job too
https://twitter.com/RzstProgramming/status/1301237629275590656?s=19 (https://twitter.com/RzstProgramming/status/1301237629275590656?s=19)
Wow.
What a douchenozzle.
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Look on the bright side, Bears fans ...team saved a ton of money by not drafting Mahomes or Watson.
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Look on the bright side, Bears fans ...team saved a ton of money by not drafting Mahomes or Watson.
I kind of hope he flashes this year like say, Ryan Fitzpatrick and they panic and throw a big contract at him
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Look on the bright side, Bears fans ...team saved a ton of money by not drafting Mahomes or Watson.
::)
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I’m not intending this to be smart ass or mean, but how can an NFL organization be so completely inept at finding a good QB as the Bears have? Sid Luckman’s final year was 1950, and the only guy since approaching being good was McMahon! You’d think just by dumb luck they would have stumbled onto one or two guys better than McMahon at least in all those years. It’s really an incredibly bad run.
But I’ve enjoyed it greatly as a Packers fan! I know, couldn’t resist a little dig at the end 😀
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Wow.
What a douchenozzle.
More proof for the “acorn” theory.
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I’m not intending this to be smart ass or mean, but how can an NFL organization be so completely inept at finding a good QB as the Bears have? Sid Luckman’s final year was 1950, and the only guy since approaching being good was McMahon! You’d think just by dumb luck they would have stumbled onto one or two guys better than McMahon at least in all those years. It’s really an incredibly bad run.
But I’ve enjoyed it greatly as a Packers fan! I know, couldn’t resist a little dig at the end 😀
So true. When I lived in Chicago, before every Packers-Bears game there would be the inevitable recap of the QBs the teams employed over the stretch of nearly two decades. The Bears had a bazillion of them, including luminaries such as Cade McNown, Shane Matthews, Henry Burris, Rick Mirer and Jonathan Quinn. The Packers had one.
I mean, even McMahon wasn't great. He wasn't bad, obviously, but he was hurt so often and was surrounded by so much talent when he did play that who knows. Mike Tomczak's winning percentage in Chicago was almost as good as McMahon's.
Like you say, it is amazing that they couldn't accidentally find somebody who could excel (and stay healthy) over a stretch of a few years.
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I’m not intending this to be smart ass or mean, but how can an NFL organization be so completely inept at finding a good QB as the Bears have? Sid Luckman’s final year was 1950, and the only guy since approaching being good was McMahon! You’d think just by dumb luck they would have stumbled onto one or two guys better than McMahon at least in all those years. It’s really an incredibly bad run.
But I’ve enjoyed it greatly as a Packers fan! I know, couldn’t resist a little dig at the end 😀
Cutler was fine. He gets dinged for his attitude and performances against the Packers but overall he was a pretty good QB. Top half of the league
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Cutler was fine. He gets dinged for his attitude and performances against the Packers but overall he was a pretty good QB. Top half of the league
Yep. If he had been in Nagy’s system he likely would have done well. For all his flaws, he is 5x the QB Trubisky is.
I’m less bothered by them choosing Trubisky than I am seeing them waste even more draft capital for Foles to end right back where they started. This organization is a joke
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Cutler wasn't very good in Denver, either, including an epic choke job to cost the Broncos a playoff spot. The guy had plenty of horrible games against teams not named Green Bay -- including a delightfully generous sh1t-the-bed performance that helped hand a game to my Panthers in 2014.
74-79 career record, including 51-51 for Chicago, with 2 playoff games in his entire 12-year career. Mediocrity personified.
And yes, he was definitely the second-best Bears QB since Luckman. Which reinforces Hutch's point nicely.
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Adrian Peterson signs one-year deal with Lions.
https://www.mprnews.org/story/2020/09/06/source-adrian-peterson-agrees-to-1year-deal-with-detroit-lions
Hanging around just to hang around? He was one of the best in his prime, but now it kinda seems like a Jordan-type thing where a former star just can't let go....
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Cutler was fine. He gets dinged for his attitude and performances against the Packers but overall he was a pretty good QB. Top half of the league
That's pretty generous.
Cutler's QB rating and QBR ranking during his Bears' seasons:
2009 - 21st/21st
2010 - 16th/21st
2011 - 13th/10th
2012 - 20th/21st
2013 - 13th/5th
2014 - 17th/21st
2015 - 16th/15th
2016 - 27th/ 31st*
* = only 5 games.
Anyhow, I know QB rating and QBR are imperfect measurements, but Cutler rarely was a top half of the league QB. Most years, he was perfectly mediocre.
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Adrian Peterson signs one-year deal with Lions.
https://www.mprnews.org/story/2020/09/06/source-adrian-peterson-agrees-to-1year-deal-with-detroit-lions
Hanging around just to hang around? He was one of the best in his prime, but now it kinda seems like a Jordan-type thing where a former star just can't let go....
To be fair, 2 seasons ago he was a 1000 yard rusher and last year had 900 yds despite missing a game. And with the platoon nature of RBs in the modern NFL, it makes sense. He’s still very productive, even if he’s not an every down top3 back anymore.
Speaking of sticking around, Josh McCown with a next level hustle of the Eagles. $12K a week to be their emergency QB on the “practice squad” but will stay at home in Texas and only fly in to Philly if needed as result of injury. Just wild
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To be fair, 2 seasons ago he was a 1000 yard rusher and last year had 900 yds despite missing a game. And with the platoon nature of RBs in the modern NFL, it makes sense. He’s still very productive, even if he’s not an every down top3 back anymore.
Speaking of sticking around, Josh McCown with a next level hustle of the Eagles. $12K a week to be their emergency QB on the “practice squad” but will stay at home in Texas and only fly in to Philly if needed as result of injury. Just wild
Agree about A.P.
As for McCown ... "next level hustle"? That implies he pulled something over on the Eagles. I'm pretty sure it wasn't any flim-flammery on his part. All the Eagles had to do was say, "Nope, we're not interested."
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Cutler was fine. He gets dinged for his attitude and performances against the Packers but overall he was a pretty good QB. Top half of the league
I went to Vanderbilt for law school, so I desperately wanted to like him...but I think ‘top half’ is awfully generous.
Maybe it was just that I had been spoiled watching Favre for so long, playing through injuries and figuring out a way to step up in big games. Cutler seemed to be the exact opposite, with the smallest injury putting him on the bench and the biggest game putting him in the background.
He was OK, but nothing more, IMO.
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I do not get the reasoning behind signing AP. Unless the injuries to their running backs are worse than made public. Lions.
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Now look at the talent and coaching that surrounded cutler during his bears years.
I believe he was definitely a top half talent in the league
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Now look at the talent and coaching that surrounded cutler during his bears years.
I believe he was definitely a top half talent in the league
Matt Forte
Brandon Marshall
Alshon Jeffrey
Greg Olson
Martellus Bennett
He was not without weapons.
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Agree about A.P.
As for McCown ... "next level hustle"? That implies he pulled something over on the Eagles. I'm pretty sure it wasn't any flim-flammery on his part. All the Eagles had to do was say, "Nope, we're not interested."
I’m not faulting him for anything, props to him for working out such an arrangement. But convincing a team to pay you and you don’t even have to be there or practice with the team? That’s hustle ;D
Maybe it was just that I had been spoiled watching Favre for so long, playing through injuries and figuring out a way to step up in big games. Cutler seemed to be the exact opposite, with the smallest injury putting him on the bench and the biggest game putting him in the background.
He was OK, but nothing more, IMO.
People need to stop with this. There are plenty of valid criticisms of Cutler but toughness isn’t one. He regularly would lead the league in knockdowns. Yet, he only missed extended time 3 times in his Bears career. A torn labrum, a groin tear, and a broken thumb (which required season ending surgery but he finished the game including a game winning drive after he broke it). That entire reputation or narrative is based off the 2011 NFC Championship game where he sat out the second half and people said he was embellishing an injury that he should have played through, when it turns out he had a sprained MCL. Nothing about his career suggests he was physically soft
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I do not get the reasoning behind signing AP. Unless the injuries to their running backs are worse than made public. Lions.
Big upside, little to no down
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People need to stop with this. There are plenty of valid criticisms of Cutler but toughness isn’t one. He regularly would lead the league in knockdowns. Yet, he only missed extended time 3 times in his Bears career. A torn labrum, a groin tear, and a broken thumb (which required season ending surgery but he finished the game including a game winning drive after he broke it). That entire reputation or narrative is based off the 2011 NFC Championship game where he sat out the second half and people said he was embellishing an injury that he should have played through, when it turns out he had a sprained MCL. Nothing about his career suggests he was physically soft
Guess we’re gonna have to disagree. Missing 5 or more games three times in eight seasons is quite a bit in my opinion. That’s an extended absence almost every other season.
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Guess we’re gonna have to disagree. Missing 5 or more games three times in eight seasons is quite a bit in my opinion. That’s an extended absence almost every other season.
You said “the smallest injury putting him on the bench” and I showed that wasn’t true, he didn’t miss random games here or there cause he didn’t tough it out. He had 3 significant injuries that guys don’t play through. Frankly amazing he didn’t have more with the number of hits his terrible OLines exposed him to. But that’s fine, you made up your mind like so many others, so you can freely frame the actual facts to suit the narrative.
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Big arm. Small brain.
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You said “the smallest injury putting him on the bench” and I showed that wasn’t true, he didn’t miss random games here or there cause he didn’t tough it out. He had 3 significant injuries that guys don’t play through. Frankly amazing he didn’t have more with the number of hits his terrible OLines exposed him to. But that’s fine, you made up your mind like so many others, so you can freely frame the actual facts to suit the narrative.
Toughest QB ever to take a snap. How’s that?
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I may have been a bit generous. Using those numbers he averages out to about the 16th best QB in the NFL from 2009-2015.
Not great but he was fine. Solid starting QB. Better than the Bears were dealing with for the 20 years prior to his arrival and since his departure.
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I may have been a bit generous. Using those numbers he averages out to about the 16th best QB in the NFL from 2009-2015.
Not great but he was fine. Solid starting QB. Better than the Bears were dealing with for the 20 years prior to his arrival and since his departure.
The data isn't very good for Cutler, and sometimes it's more than numbers, too.
For example, it seemed like he had a knack for throwing interceptions when the Bears could least afford them. I already mentioned the 2014 loss to the Panthers. The Bears had that game, but they made a couple of mistakes and then Cutler threw a pick that absolutely killed them. It seemed there were a lot of those.
But maybe it's just me, and he was merely mediocre and not horrible.
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My take on Cutler is that he had a great arm but believed in it way too much. He thought he could fit the ball into any window at any time. He'd make an incredible throw that you'd look at and think "only a handful of guys in the league could have pulled that off," only to throw his next two passes into triple coverage. He'd make a spectacular play and then throw it directly into the middle linebacker's chest on the next possession. He absolutely had the ability but just couldn't or wouldn't make the smart play. Just maddening to watch.
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My take on Cutler is that he had a great arm but believed in it way too much. He thought he could fit the ball into any window at any time. He'd make an incredible throw that you'd look at and think "only a handful of guys in the league could have pulled that off," only to throw his next two passes into triple coverage. He'd make a spectacular play and then throw it directly into the middle linebacker's chest on the next possession. He absolutely had the ability but just couldn't or wouldn't make the smart play. Just maddening to watch.
Are you referring to Cutler or Trubisky?
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I loved Jay.
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I loved Jay.
In my lifetime, he was the third best quarterback the Packers ever had.
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In my lifetime, he was the third best quarterback the Packers ever had.
Hard to argue with that. 2-11 record with 15 touchdowns and 23 interceptions.
Even Matthew Stafford is dramatically better (7-10), and he plays for an awful Lions team.
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Colin Kaepernick is still not signed, but he is in Madden ‘21…and he has a higher rating than 17 of the league’s starting quarterbacks.
Are you allowed to take a knee for the national anthem in the video game?
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Are you referring to Cutler or Trubisky?
Unfortunately it could be either/or, but I think Cutler had a much better arm than Mitchy Biscuits. Trubisky is probably a better athlete though.
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Reports coming out Von Miller suffered a season ending ankle injury late today. Bad news for Denver
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Booing during the "moment of unity"?
Never change NFL, never change.
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Booing during the "moment of unity"?
Never change NFL, never change.
That entire thing was the most NFL thing ever. Way too dramatic anthem...watered down unity moment...booed anyway.
I don’t even know why they try.
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Pretty well played game at least. Shows how irrelevant the pre season really is.
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Texans down three scores, running the playclock down each play, and then running the ball is the exact formula to comeback against the Chiefs.
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Texans down three scores, running the playclock down each play, and then running the ball is the exact formula to comeback against the Chiefs.
And then they actually let Watson work and they score on their final 2 drives. He’s just so brain dead sometimes.
Also, I saw the total anywhere from 54.5 to 56 the last few days. 31-20, Chiefs first and goal from the 2 with 2:15 left. Reid calls 3 terrible, generic inside runs and then for some reason kicks a meaningless FG with 30 seconds left. Game ends 34-20. Classic start to the season. Especially cause the over looked beyond dead with the Chiefs sleepwalking through the second half on offense and the Texans inexplicably killing clock. Gets the shot of life with that onside return and then whoosh
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Booing during the "moment of unity"?
Never change NFL, never change.
Some people don’t want unity. They want the divisive status quo, but couch it under the phrase “law and order.“
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And then they actually let Watson work and they score on their final 2 drives. He’s just so brain dead sometimes.
Also, I saw the total anywhere from 54.5 to 56 the last few days. 31-20, Chiefs first and goal from the 2 with 2:15 left. Reid calls 3 terrible, generic inside runs and then for some reason kicks a meaningless FG with 30 seconds left. Game ends 34-20. Classic start to the season. Especially cause the over looked beyond dead with the Chiefs sleepwalking through the second half on offense and the Texans inexplicably killing clock. Gets the shot of life with that onside return and then whoosh
Should he have taken a knee there? What happens if the Texans somehow break one on the first play after the turnover on downs you wanted? All of a sudden it’s a 3 point game if they get a 2 point conversion with an onside kick coming.
Pushing a lead to 14 seems meaningful when you can do it.
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Should he have taken a knee there? What happens if the Texans somehow break one on the first play after the turnover on downs you wanted? All of a sudden it’s a 3 point game if they get a 2 point conversion with an onside kick coming.
Pushing a lead to 14 seems meaningful when you can do it.
I’d wager Reid and the Chiefs offense puts it in the end zone on 1st and Goal from the 2 about 80-90% of the time under normal circumstances. With the reigning Super Bowl MVP...run that offense. Not the cloud of dust, up the gut 3 times against a stout front line. If his intent wasn’t to “not score”, it was weird play calling
Past that, to the kick, honestly, there is a better chance of a fluke score from a blocked kick than a team backed up on their 1 yd line down 11 with no TOs.
I pointed it out cause of the amusing O/U implications, but it was a very un-Chiefs-like Uber conservative set of plays from a coach who, despite being very accomplished, has a reputation for making some odd late game decisions
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If people have a problem with a show of unity between men of all color, the problem isn’t the moment of unity, it’s the people who have a problem that are the real problem
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And then they actually let Watson work and they score on their final 2 drives. He’s just so brain dead sometimes.
Also, I saw the total anywhere from 54.5 to 56 the last few days. 31-20, Chiefs first and goal from the 2 with 2:15 left. Reid calls 3 terrible, generic inside runs and then for some reason kicks a meaningless FG with 30 seconds left. Game ends 34-20. Classic start to the season. Especially cause the over looked beyond dead with the Chiefs sleepwalking through the second half on offense and the Texans inexplicably killing clock. Gets the shot of life with that onside return and then whoosh
So you took the 'over'.
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If people have a problem with a show of unity between men of all color, the problem isn’t the moment of unity, it’s the people who have a problem that are the real problem
But I thought it was about respecting the flag.
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But I thought it was about respecting the flag.
Weirdly, I don’t think that’s the case at all 😉
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For those who didn't see:
https://www.reddit.com/r/sports/comments/iqg307/the_chiefs_and_texans_arminarm_in_a_show_of_unity/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
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So you took the 'over'.
Actually I didn’t, totally neutral! Wouldn’t have hated another Kelce score though 8-)
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To be fair, 2 seasons ago he was a 1000 yard rusher and last year had 900 yds despite missing a game. And with the platoon nature of RBs in the modern NFL, it makes sense. He’s still very productive, even if he’s not an every down top3 back anymore.
Even though he isn't an every down, top 3 back anymore...the Lions plan to pretend he is.
https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/30004483/detroit-lions-roll-veteran-adrian-peterson-lead-running-back
Solid idea...until his aging body breaks down in a few weeks from overuse.
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Even though he isn't an every down, top 3 back anymore...the Lions plan to pretend he is.
https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/30004483/detroit-lions-roll-veteran-adrian-peterson-lead-running-back
Solid idea...until his aging body breaks down in a few weeks from overuse.
Tank for Trevor or Fail for Fields.