We Might Look Back...

[BallBoy]

Only real take i have from this thread isthat in 5+ years Wojo has failed to land a high major PG. Im in Wojos camp but that is pathetic and it has been a major thirn in our side in each season

What high major point guards did Buzz recruit?  Derrick Wilson, Magic Dawson come to mind. Junior was lambasted by everyone on this board until after he left. Duane Wilson was never a PG but a combo guard that struggled with injuries. Anyone else?

[MU82]

You mean the player that was asked to either fully commit to basketball in a way comparable to the other 12 scholarship players OR accept a track only FULL scholarship such that he might finish his degree?  That 'Wally thing'?   

Smoke and mirrors

[Galway Eagle]

What high major point guards did Buzz recruit?  Derrick Wilson, Magic Dawson come to mind. Junior was lambasted by everyone on this board until after he left. Duane Wilson was never a PG but a combo guard that struggled with injuries. Anyone else?

Reggie Smith

[The Sultan]

Reggie Smith wasn't a high major point guard.

Junior was ranked higher (top 100) and was actually good at playing basketball.

[Galway Eagle]

Reggie Smith wasn't a high major point guard.

Junior was ranked higher (top 100) and was actually good at playing basketball.

I was just playing around, but to be fair you listed Dawson and while he was better than Smith I'm not sure you can include him as a high major PG either... unless you're ners.

[The Sultan]

I didn't list anyone.  But yeah Dawson wasn't one either.

I don't think there a lot of high major point guard options out there.  Pretty much everyone is using some sort of combo guard with the top "pure points" going to blue bloods.

[Lennys Tap]

Pretty much everyone is using some sort of combo guard with the top "pure points" going to blue bloods.

Like Murray St.

[MU82]

Like Murray St.

Ja Morant was an unheralded, 6-2 combo guard who received exactly one offer from a P6 school: South Carolina.

https://www.thestate.com/sports/college/university-of-south-carolina/usc-mens-basketball/article227322244.html

From the article:

South Carolina signed five players in that 2017 class, including David Beatty, a four-star guard out of Philadelphia. A much less heralded Morant committed to Murray State on Sept. 2, 2016, while on his official visit to the Racers.

The decision came before Morant took an official visit to USC. Turns out he was interested in the smaller school.

Had Morant been a 4-star or 5-star PG or combo guard in HS, the bluebloods would have been all over him. He was considered a raw talent and a project.

I think you already knew all that, Lenny, but just wanted to get it out there for the record.

[Billy Hoyle]

A team loaded with 5-stars (including a once-in-a-generation talent) and coached by one of the two most accomplished college basketball coaches ever lost on a 3-point shot by a guy who walked on at Michigan State.

to be fair here, Goings had been promised a scholarship in future years. He turned down other D1 offers to go to MSU.

I don't believe you can say that losing a kid from Michigan to Michigan State is a defining point in Wojo's recruiting. A Wisconsin kid, perhaps (e.g. Joey) but not a kid who likely grew up dreaming of playing for MSU.

[Herman Cain]

Herman

I was big, big time DJ guy, but he was not the straw that broke the camel's back. 4ever is completely correct that Rick's recruiting heartbreaks was to much for Rick to overcome at that point in his career. He was young, inexperienced HC and his confidence was severely affected. He chased the right guys, but when they were lost, a big part of his confidence was as well. Again, the comparison with Rick may very well be history repeating itself.

When Rick returned to college ball he no longer chased the whales. He recruited guys that he liked, he could coach and actually ended up being a very lazy recruiter. In his case, he ultimately became one of the great coaching minds of the last 30-40 years and could field a competitive team with just about anyone suiting up.

Kind of like my harping on Wojo having a system, sooner or later a coach has to have an identity. Rick's became being a top five coach in college ball. I would prefer if Wojo's ends up including a slew of 4 and 5 star players. Time will tell.

I agree with you on the recruiting strategy part of Majerus tenure at MU.  I am just saying that if DJ comes back for that 84-85 season, MU would likely have had enough more wins to get  in the tournament and also be in the top 20 for most of the year. The line up would have 3 good /very good skills guys ( Mandy Johnson, DJ and Trotter) plus a couple of serviceable bigs (Copa and Downing) .  That  theoretical team may have been good enough to change the trajectory of the program under Majerus to one that was moving up.

[BallBoy]

I was just playing around, but to be fair you listed Dawson and while he was better than Smith I'm not sure you can include him as a high major PG either... unless you're ners.

I was not series with my list. The point is perception. People are talking about the legend of Buzz and how embarrassing Wojos performance has been related to recruiting a PG. in reality MU hasn't had a good point guard since Junior and people ripped the crap out of him which would make DJ the last really good point guard.

[Jon]

You mean the player that was asked to either fully commit to basketball in a way comparable to the other 12 scholarship players OR accept a track only FULL scholarship such that he might finish his degree?  That 'Wally thing'?   

When you get the complete story then we can talk. Because the version of events you just recited ain't what happened.

[Galway Eagle]

When you get the complete story then we can talk. Because the version of events you just recited ain't what happened.

Break the news and clear it all up for us then. You don't want to let misinformation linger right?

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

When you get the complete story then we can talk. Because the version of events you just recited ain't what happened.

You are right, he was cut because he wasn't good enough to make the team. Unlike most student-athletes who are cut for not being good, Wally was given the option to stay on with a full track scholarship or finish up his last classes in the first summer semester so he could graduate and transfer somewhere else to play basketball. Wally choose option number three, quit school and party with his brother. What about any of that shows that Wojo is a dirty coach?

[jesmu84]

You are right, he was cut because he wasn't good enough to make the team. Unlike most student-athletes who are cut for not being good, Wally was given the option to stay on with a full track scholarship or finish up his last classes in the first summer semester so he could graduate and transfer somewhere else to play basketball. Wally choose option number three, quit school and party with his brother. What about any of that shows that Wojo is a dirty coach?

Nothing.

But, of course, you've got to look at the bias of the poster you're attempting to have a reasonable dialogue with.

[GOO]

DJ was a very good point guard his senior year when he decided to stop jacking up bad 3's to prove he could shoot.

Prior to his senior year, he was good freshman year.  But I really thought, as a point guard, he did not do well his sophomore and junior years.  He tried way to hard to get his and take his 3's, despite the results.

Fro me, Junior left a lot to be desired.  I am a believer that a point guard has to be able to breakdown a defender and draw a secondary defender AND has to be able to hit the 3.

[MU82]

I have always felt that Junior was the "acceptable floor" for our program.

In other words, we should never field a team with a PG who is less talented than Junior Cadougan.

Unfortunately, since he left, we have fielded many teams with PGs who were less talented.

Am excited to see if Koby and/or Symir are as good as advertised. JCS, obviously, was not.

[muwarrior69]

Wojo has landed several players that bluebloods and near-bluebloods very much wanted. He has recruited well enough to average 21 wins over the last 4 years, to get us into the postseason the last 3 years and to make us legit contenders for our conference title.

That equals "good" IMHO, but it means he still has to recruit even better to get us where we all (including Wojo) want us to be. And I think he will.

And as others have already stated, Torrence is a 4-star PG whom Virginia, Syracuse and Maryland (among others) offered.

But sure, he's swung and missed, too. Name a coach who hasn't, especially a coach at a non-blueblood.

...the coaches at Virginia, Syracuse and Maryland who missed on Torrence.

[Jon]

Like Murray St.

Please, Lenny. It's not known as Murray State. It is now commonly referred to as, "The Juggernaut"

[Herman Cain]

You are right, he was cut because he wasn't good enough to make the team. Unlike most student-athletes who are cut for not being good, Wally was given the option to stay on with a full track scholarship or finish up his last classes in the first summer semester so he could graduate and transfer somewhere else to play basketball. Wally choose option number three, quit school and party with his brother. What about any of that shows that Wojo is a dirty coach?

I know we have been through these semantics before. Wally's scholarship was not renewed but he was offered the option of staying in the team as a walk on and paying his tuition. Alternatively, if he wanted to finish on scholarship he could utilize his final year of eligibility in indoor track . However because NCAA refs prohibit students who on scholarship in other sports from Playing football and basketball, Wally could not elect the track option and play basketball. It was all a mute point because he ultimately graduated that summer and never did use the track option.

[Jockey]

I have always felt that Junior was the "acceptable floor" for our program.

In other words, we should never field a team with a PG who is less talented than Junior Cadougan.

Unfortunately, since he left, we have fielded many teams with PGs who were less talented.

Am excited to see if Koby and/or Symir are as good as advertised. JCS, obviously, was not.

I don't see Symir as a PG, but rather one of those athletic 6'4" guards that always give us trouble.

[D'Lo Brown]

I don't see Symir as a PG, but rather one of those athletic 6'4" guards that always give us trouble.

I am gonna go out on a limb here and say Wojo isn't so big on traditional floor general PGs. Might be a step too far due to not enough evidence yet, but what we have seen is him chasing after a couple of these types and never really having much of a backup plan for it. I am left to assume (as a casual fan) that he prefers guards to share those responsibilities. From what I can see he has actually recruited two types of guards: shooters and slashers.

I kind of wish he would bring in a primary ball handler as we have a clear idea on what Markus and Sam would be best at... And that is probably not having to create everything from scratch.

[Jon]

You are right, he was cut because he wasn't good enough to make the team. Unlike most student-athletes who are cut for not being good, Wally was given the option to stay on with a full track scholarship or finish up his last classes in the first summer semester so he could graduate and transfer somewhere else to play basketball. Wally choose option number three, quit school and party with his brother. What about any of that shows that Wojo is a dirty coach?

I'm not sure I would call Wojo a 'dirty' coach. But the Wally episode was exceedingly mercenary.

And for anyone who thinks Wojo is a 'nice' guy I hate to tell you but he's an pretty boy of a person.

[The Sultan]

In the grand scheme of things the Wally thing was a big nothing.

[Bocephys]

I'm not sure I would call Wojo a 'dirty' coach. But the Wally episode was exceedingly mercenary.

And for anyone who thinks Wojo is a 'nice' guy I hate to tell you but he's an pretty boy of a person.

I heard he doesn't even have any patents!