Fire Buzz Williams memory lane thread

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

Honestly tell me do you think 18-13 (9-9) regular season is a successful year? It's mind boggling how two wins in the tournament make everybody forget just how not great that season was. We weren't in the tournament without beating Providence and West Virginia in the BE tournament and if I remember correctly we were still sweating it out on selection Sunday. I'm sorry that is not a well done coaching job.

In 2009 he inherited 4 of the best players to wear an MU uniform since the last of Al's guys left. I get DJ going down was awful but I maintain that a better coach could've done just fine with 3 of the best players in the past 30 years remaining.

In 2012 can you honestly tell me you're happy with where we left in March? Especially when you realise that Missouri and Michigan St were eliminated in our bracket?Even beyond that I am confident that almost any coach could've won with that team, but I'll give Buzz credit for putting them together all the same.
 
Those are the three years in question. One is unequivecally not a well done coaching job, another were not his players and he choked at the first sign of adversity. The last we did terrible in March for how great that team was, yet we bend over for buzz choking that year due to a bad matchup while hating Wojo for bad matchups.

Galway I know you remember how much of a grind the BEast was back then. Buzz did fine—could he have done better.  Of course. 

We'd all have no debate if the results today were as good.  In fact I bet we wouldn't even be talking about him. 

[DiaperDandy]

Galway I know you remember how much of a grind the BEast was back then. Buzz did fine—could he have done better.  Of course. 

We'd all have no debate if the results today were as good.  In fact I bet we wouldn't even be talking about him. 

+1000

The big east was a BEAST that season (11/16 teams made the tourney and UConn went on a run to win the Big East tourney and NCAA tourney as the last big east team to earn a bid). 

Stating that Buzz underperformed that season is foolish.  The old Big East was a completely different monster than what we have now.

What made that season great was the fact that we snuck in the tourney by beating wvu in the big east and then took out a 6 and 3 seed on our way to the sweet 16.  No one saw that coming and it was a pleasant surprise.  Taking out a conference rival in Syracuse was icing on the cake. 

[Lennys Tap]

 
Those are the three years in question. One is unequivecally not a well done coaching job, another were not his players and he choked at the first sign of adversity. The last we did terrible in March for how great that team was, yet we bend over for buzz choking that year due to a bad matchup while hating Wojo for bad matchups.

The year we were 9-9 in the Big East conference regular season so was the team who won the frackin' National Championship. Nine (maybe more) teams in that conference would have won this year's version of the Big East. We lost our (by far) most important player in 2009 going into the toughest part of our season. No choke. The other year I think we were rated in the mid 20s by Pomeroy and make the S16. That's TERRIBLE? LOL. Crean did better once in 9 years, worse in 8. Wojo hasn't come close in 5. Again, if you want to be an impossible grader, then say Buzz is 2 for 6. But only if you concede Crean was 1 for 9 and Wojo is 0 for 5. On any curve that's an "A".

[muguru]

It is a crapshoot in who you play, where you play...how you play not so much.  Which is why I said our loss to Murray State was because of how we played, but it didn't help that it was a horrible matchup for us.

To your other question, why is it that you bark that year five and he doesn't win a NCAA game, but Year 6 for Buzz for a team picked to win the Big East you let it slide? 

Wojo has to clean up Buzz's roster mess, including sending Mayo and others on their way.  He inherited a team that didn't make any tournament.  You keep saying he inherited a great program, that's fine and dandy but the immediate roster was not that great...so much so the great Brent Williams couldn't do anything with it.  That's the difference.

Also this, Buzz is a better coach than Wojo.  At least for now.  That may change or it may not. But a lot goes into being the coach at MU, outside the lines of the court included.  This is the part you haven't cared about, you aren't an alum, don't run the university.  Buzz's teams won 8 NCAA games in 6 years...well done.  6 years that were much different than the 5 Wojo has been a part of.  Different Big East, different college basketball landscape entirely.  Buzz tried it for one year and failed...Wojo has gone to three post season appearances in this new Big East.

Hopefully things continue to improve.  Are you going to buy a Texas A&M shirt?

I wasn't happy with Buzz's last year by any stretch...BUT, he at least earns a little reprieve because of all the success he had previously. Doesn't let him off the hook entirely for that year, but helps some.

Wojo hasn't earned Sh*t. He had an INCREDIBLY talented team this year...and yet..they had a 1-6 finish to end the season, and apparently Wojo didn't know why. Don't you find a problem with that?? How can the Coach NOT know why HIS team finished so poorly??

You keep adding in Wojo's NIT year, it doesn't mean jack squat. Who gives two sh*ts about the N(ot)I(n)T(ournament)?? Will we count it as an accomplishment if they go to the CBI like DePaul has done this year. Wojo failed MISERABLY in the year he had an NBA draft pick on his roster. Talk about horrible coaching jobs..Absolutely god awful job to not take that team to the tournament.

Your right...Buzz's years were different...for one, let's not forget he had all the success he had in the TOUGHEST conference ever assembled. Wojo would get eaten alive in a conference like that. Buzz also had to put up his last couple of years with the absolute douche Larry Williams, and Father Pilarz who was a dolt himself. Worst administration the University has ever had and it's not close. Larry Williams had ZERO business running a major athletic department. None. The only reason he was brought in was to run Buzz out(and if you say differently you are TOTALLY FULL OF SH*T) and for as much as you at least pretend to know, you would HAVE to know that, and he succeeded. pretty boy ruined the BB program..cannot stand that man..

[connie]

We'd all have no debate if the results today were as good.  In fact I bet we wouldn't even be talking about him.

I, for one, would love to have something to talk about other than Bert.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

I, for one, would love to have something to talk about other than Bert.

Like maybe our upcoming game???

[Goose]

guru
If you feel this was incredibly talented team, not so sure I am on your bandwagon anymore. You have seen incredibly talented teams in your life, don't you remember?

[muguru]

guru
If you feel this was incredibly talented team, not so sure I am on your bandwagon anymore. You have seen incredibly talented teams in your life, don't you remember?

Yes you're right I have Goose, but this team was more talented then the 1-6 slide indicated...they were closer talent wise to the top 10 team. Now, was the talent utilized properly all the time?? That's the question.

[Goose]

guru

I think you and Ty Law might be hanging together these days. I am with you on what I want from program, but these guys are light years from even Buzz's teams.

[Galway Eagle]

The year we were 9-9 in the Big East conference regular season so was the team who won the frackin' National Championship. Nine (maybe more) teams in that conference would have won this year's version of the Big East. We lost our (by far) most important player in 2009 going into the toughest part of our season. No choke. The other year I think we were rated in the mid 20s by Pomeroy and make the S16. That's TERRIBLE? LOL. Crean did better once in 9 years, worse in 8. Wojo hasn't come close in 5. Again, if you want to be an impossible grader, then say Buzz is 2 for 6. But only if you concede Crean was 1 for 9 and Wojo is 0 for 5. On any curve that's an "A".

18-13, 9-9, 4 wins over tournament teams. good regular season yes or no? It's as simple as that, I personally hold us to a higher standard than that. Also UConn went undefeated in the noncon sitting at 21 wins is a heck of a lot nicer looking at the end of the regular season.

2009 is a matter of judgement, I don't think buzz had to coach much, had 4 starters that were seniors and one junior, 4 of the starters will be in the MU HoF at some point all with multiple NCAA tournament trips. I feel that when it came time to have to coach due to the injury, he failed and that a better coach would've succeeded given that Wes, Jerel and Lazar are a core than 95% of the country would've killed for that year.

I said the regular season was fantastic in 2012, thats why I've only said just about anybody could've coached that team but give him credit for building it. How are you going to sit there and act like you're happy with that sweet 16? You're fooling yourself or have low standards for us if that's the case. That march was depressing for a team like that, they looked woefully lost against Florida and struggled with Murray St till late. So many people here believe march is the end all be all and if they're happy with that march (unlike the prior one) they're kidding themselves too.

My point had nothing to do with Crean or Wojo and was only that a lot of you and others here put Buzz way too high on a pedestal.

[Herman Cain]

I wasn't happy with Buzz's last year by any stretch...BUT, he at least earns a little reprieve because of all the success he had previously. Doesn't let him off the hook entirely for that year, but helps some.

Wojo hasn't earned Sh*t. He had an INCREDIBLY talented team this year...and yet..they had a 1-6 finish to end the season, and apparently Wojo didn't know why. Don't you find a problem with that?? How can the Coach NOT know why HIS team finished so poorly??

You keep adding in Wojo's NIT year, it doesn't mean jack squat. Who gives two sh*ts about the N(ot)I(n)T(ournament)?? Will we count it as an accomplishment if they go to the CBI like DePaul has done this year. Wojo failed MISERABLY in the year he had an NBA draft pick on his roster. Talk about horrible coaching jobs..Absolutely god awful job to not take that team to the tournament.

Your right...Buzz's years were different...for one, let's not forget he had all the success he had in the TOUGHEST conference ever assembled. Wojo would get eaten alive in a conference like that. Buzz also had to put up his last couple of years with the absolute douche Larry Williams, and Father Pilarz who was a dolt himself. Worst administration the University has ever had and it's not close. Larry Williams had ZERO business running a major athletic department. None. The only reason he was brought in was to run Buzz out(and if you say differently you are TOTALLY FULL OF SH*T) and for as much as you at least pretend to know, you would HAVE to know that, and he succeeded. pretty boy ruined the BB program..cannot stand that man..

Larry Williams was a supreme ego maniac. I spent an afternoon with him early on and came to the exact same conclusion you did.  Truly tragic that Williams ran the best coach since Al out of town.

   

[Uncle Rico]

NM

[The Sultan]

I wasn't happy with Buzz's last year by any stretch...BUT, he at least earns a little reprieve because of all the success he had previously. Doesn't let him off the hook entirely for that year, but helps some.

Wojo hasn't earned Sh*t. He had an INCREDIBLY talented team this year...and yet..they had a 1-6 finish to end the season, and apparently Wojo didn't know why. Don't you find a problem with that?? How can the Coach NOT know why HIS team finished so poorly??

You keep adding in Wojo's NIT year, it doesn't mean jack squat. Who gives two sh*ts about the N(ot)I(n)T(ournament)?? Will we count it as an accomplishment if they go to the CBI like DePaul has done this year. Wojo failed MISERABLY in the year he had an NBA draft pick on his roster. Talk about horrible coaching jobs..Absolutely god awful job to not take that team to the tournament.

Your right...Buzz's years were different...for one, let's not forget he had all the success he had in the TOUGHEST conference ever assembled. Wojo would get eaten alive in a conference like that. Buzz also had to put up his last couple of years with the absolute douche Larry Williams, and Father Pilarz who was a dolt himself. Worst administration the University has ever had and it's not close. Larry Williams had ZERO business running a major athletic department. None. The only reason he was brought in was to run Buzz out(and if you say differently you are TOTALLY FULL OF SH*T) and for as much as you at least pretend to know, you would HAVE to know that, and he succeeded. pretty boy ruined the BB program..cannot stand that man..

Larry Williams and Scott Pilarz were gone, and Cords and Wild were in place, before Buzz left.  I get that both were dolts, but Buzz made his decision to leave after they actually left.

Blaming them, when Buzz had a lot of issues himself, is odd considering.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

You can call Larry a dolt all you want, but without him, we might be stuck playing Tulane and ECU right now. He and the Villanova AD were the the two biggest forces behind the Catholic 7 movement.

[Lennys Tap]

Larry Williams and Scott Pilarz were gone, and Cords and Wild were in place, before Buzz left.  I get that both were dolts, but Buzz made his decision to leave after they actually left.

Blaming them, when Buzz had a lot of issues himself, is odd considering.

They effectively (as was their mission) poisoned the well. Their incompetence cost them their jobs but they won the war by creating a hostile environment.

[The Sultan]

They effectively (as was their mission) poisoned the well. Their incompetence cost them their jobs but they won the war by creating a hostile environment.

It's amazing the lengths that people will take to completely absolve Buzz of any responsibility here.

[Lennys Tap]

It's amazing the lengths that people will take to completely absolve Buzz of any responsibility here.

Buzz has some -but only some.

[Pakuni]

Buzz has some -but only some.

Buzz got what he wanted and still chose to leave.it was his decision and his decision alone. Blaming his departure on others is disingenuous at best.
Some of you are like jilted boyfriends making excuses for the girl who dumped you.

[The Sultan]

Buzz got what he wanted and still chose to leave.it was his decision and his decision alone. Blaming his departure on others is disingenuous at best.
Some of you are like jilted boyfriends making excuses for the girl who dumped you.

I wonder if people on VTScoop are going to be making the same excuses for Buzz five years later that people here are making.  It's kind of embarrassing. 

[Galway Eagle]

I wonder if people on VTScoop are going to be making the same excuses for Buzz five years later that people here are making.  It's kind of embarrassing.

This.

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

I wonder if people on VTScoop are going to be making the same excuses for Buzz five years later that people here are making.  It's kind of embarrassing.

VT14 has some insight.

[MU82]

Cheeks

You and I are the only two guys that believe Buzz took his final year off at MU. I stopped caring if anyone believed it or not. There is no doubt in mind that character was revealed, again, during his final season at MU. I say it all the time, I am big Buzz guy, but I cannot dispute most claims against him.

Well, aren't we three unique peas in a pod ... me, Goose and chicos!

I have been a Warriors fan since 1978-79 (my freshman year), and Buzz's 2013-14 squad was the most disappointed and frustrated I have ever been in a Marquette team.

Actually, though, I don't think we're the only 3 Scoopers who believe Buzz mailed it in that year. There are other peas in this pod.

Having said that, I believe Buzz was a very good coach who became better as his career went on. Take away that final year, when he obviously had "lost his happy" and was going to make MU pay for that, and only a few would argue that he has not delivered the goods at MU and now VT.

I am glad Buzz was our coach, got a lot of enjoyment watching his teams play, including the one that beat Cuse to get to the Sweet 16. That was a gritty, fun team to watch.

And I was glad Crean was our coach, too. 2003 was special, Wade was special, and there were other outstanding recruits. The program was put back on the right trajectory. Plus, he hired Buzz.

And I am glad Wojo is our coach now. I obviously understand why the final 7 games frustrated the hell out of people; I didn't particularly care for it, either. Nobody did. But I enjoyed the first 80% of this season tremendously, saw a lot of improvement in individual players as well as in team defense, and I look forward to an outstanding 2019-20 season.

We are Marquette!

[Goose]

MU 82

I am happy to hear you felt Buzz mailed it in. I stated that many times that season and I was blasted on here. He had quit a year before he left MU, but just did not let the fans know. Said back then, but Buzz was gone a year earlier if  we had not made E8 that season. He was given his "instructions" during that season.

[Lennys Tap]

I wonder if people on VTScoop are going to be making the same excuses for Buzz five years later that people here are making.  It's kind of embarrassing.

Why would they need to make excuses for the the most successful coach in school history? They should enjoy an incredible ride they thought they would never have.

They (and most MU fans) won't be making "excuses". They'll be remembering fondly the best and (in MU's case) the second best eras in their school's basketball history.

Don't waste your time being embarrassed for them or us. Be embarrassed for yourself.

[Goose]

Lenny

For me, it was the second best time to be an MU in my lifetime. IMO, we were close, close, close to being what I would love to see on the court every season. My guess is VT fans will remember Buzz fondly as well.