Let's Nip This Is the Bud Now

[HowardsWorld]

I've seen this posted a few places. Figured I might as well say something now while everyone is gnashing their teeth anyway.

If Wojo leads this team to another 5 seed or better next season, and then loses in the first round, he will not be fired. You can rage and moan about it, but it simply will not happen (barring off the court issues). When is the last time that a coach was fired after earning a 5 seed or better in the NCAAs without off the court issues? Has it happened in the modern era? If it has, when is the last time a coach was fired after leading a team to a 5 seed or better two years in a row? Marquette is not going to fire a guy who for 97% of the season had a top 20 team because the last 3% was an upset loss.

This just goes to show you how mediocre this program has become. Settling year after year with no NCAA tournament wins. Its not where you are during 97% its where you finish anyone who disagrees has a loser mentality. I also hate when people brag about beating ranked teams months before selection sunday and say or we beat so and so when they were ranked in the top 15 and that team went out to be .500.  97% of the season we were a top 20 team. But eh 3% we were not even a top 100 team. You and many posters on here continue to defend wojo game after game. Maybe its because you dont want him fired because another rebuild would take another 5+ years but I am tired with the lack of defense, lack of rebounding this team has year after year.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Not that I know of.  But I do know of a MU coach who won 100 games in 5 years and wasn't going to bring Marquette to where "we" wanted it, and was shown the door.

And he was fired after going 14-15 with no postseason. Not after a 5 seed.

And c'mon Hilltopper, anyone can see that Deane was trending down while Wojo is trending up.

[LAZER]

This just goes to show you how mediocre this program has become. Settling year after year with no NCAA tournament wins. Its not where you are during 97% its where you finish anyone who disagrees has a loser mentality. I also hate when people brag about beating ranked teams months before selection sunday and say or we beat so and so when they were ranked in the top 15 and that team went out to be .500.  97% of the season we were a top 20 team. But eh 3% we were not even a top 100 team. You and many posters on here continue to defend wojo game after game. Maybe its because you dont want him fired because another rebuild would take another 5+ years but I am tired with the lack of defense, lack of rebounding this team has year after year.

Lack of defense and rebounding? Those were probably the two biggest areas of improvement from last year to this year.

[Dr. Blackheart]

Gladwell has studied true successful leaders in business.  He found the 8-9 mark is when their highest level of success occurs.  He also said they are usually home grown and you never really hear about them.

In sports, that cycle is compressed as you have wins and losses.  This was why I argued Wojo should have come in Pole Whacking his first year so he could get to his style of players sooner like Kieger did.  That said, he has successfully taken MU from Point A to Point B.  Point C is what Dish is talking about (winning the Big East and/or BET, something that Kieger has done).  Point D is the Jay Wright level (Gladwell) where he can reload.  Almost all fans, administrators, and BOT would be fine with sustained Point C.

Wojo had numerous chances to hit Point C this year year.  He whiffed over the past three weeks on something that was very achievable (just one win at home...or a BET Saturday performance or a Round 1 NCAA win).  This is where Scoop is hung up.  Some expect C today, some can see it next year.  But, tangibly, Wojo is still at Point B. 

[Cheeks]

Well that’s fine, but the committee was obviously wrong. No way they’re the 17th best team in country. They got destroyed by a mid major team. Big east was really bad this year and they lost 4/5 to end season. Howard went super man to beat K state and Buffalo. I’m waiting to see how Murray State plays against FSU to make a full opinion, but I see FSU winning that game.

Let’s see what MSU does the rest of the way before making that claim.

Again, MU beat a 4, 5, two 6’s, a 7, a 10 already this year. 

If MSU goes deep on their crapshoot run, then maybe it was they who were under seeded, right?  Goes both ways.

What if MU played St Mary’s yesterday, a likely win.  Would that mean we were correctly seeded?  You guys are assigning results based on the seed without looking at who they played or what another similarly seeded team would be as an opponent.  Example, we are a 5...So is Wisconsin.  We beat Wisconsin this year, but they may win their opening game.  It DEPENDS who you play!!!!

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

This just goes to show you how mediocre this program has become. Settling year after year with no NCAA tournament wins. Its not where you are during 97% its where you finish anyone who disagrees has a loser mentality. I also hate when people brag about beating ranked teams months before selection sunday and say or we beat so and so when they were ranked in the top 15 and that team went out to be .500.  97% of the season we were a top 20 team. But eh 3% we were not even a top 100 team. You and many posters on here continue to defend wojo game after game. Maybe its because you dont want him fired because another rebuild would take another 5+ years but I am tired with the lack of defense, lack of rebounding this team has year after year.

We were the number 1 defense in the Big East, and I believe one of the top rebounding teams.

I want NCAA tournament wins. Getting a high seed is the best way to do that. Sometimes you get a high seed and still lose. Doesn't mean you didn't have a good season.

And again, what program has ever fired a coach after earning a 5 seed or better barring off the court issues? If the answer is nobody, why would it be reasonable to expect Marquette to do something different?

[jutaw22mu]

there have been a lot of bad takes in the last 18 hours.  This one is the worst.

Why invest in bad stock (Wojo) when you can instead put the money into more attractive start-up packages to recruit better academic talent and raise the profile of the university the right way?

[Mr. Nielsen]

And again, what program has ever fired a coach after earning a 5 seed or better barring off the court issues? If the answer is nobody, why would it be reasonable to expect Marquette to do something different?

It would be a bad idea. What good coach would want to take a job that you get fired for being a 5 seed and loses in the 1st round? Answer is, not a good coach or not an top assistant.

[LAZER]

Why invest in bad stock (Wojo) when you can instead put the money into more attractive start-up packages to recruit better academic talent and raise the profile of the university the right way?

Because the basketball program still gets MU a lot of attention?

[rocky_warrior]

It would be a bad idea. What good coach would want to take a job that you get fired for being a 5 seed and loses in the 1st round? Answer is, not a good coach or not an top assistant.

Yup.  Plenty of examples of schools that fire winning coaches (see Texas/Barnes as recent example) and find that the grass isn't greener.  Bad choice to fire a winning coach that is consistently getting you in the tournament.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Why invest in bad stock (Wojo) when you can instead put the money into more attractive start-up packages to recruit better academic talent and raise the profile of the university the right way?

Because its not bad stock? I don't know if this number is still true but Scholl said that for every $ they spend on MU basketball, the university gets an ROI of $7. Seems like great stock to me!

[muguru]

It would be a bad idea. What good coach would want to take a job that you get fired for being a 5 seed and loses in the 1st round? Answer is, not a good coach or not an top assistant.

No, the correct answer is...one that knows he can do better..one that wants to get the program back to where it belongs. One that sees that this program has been below expectations for where it should be. That's the Coach you'd get.

[jutaw22mu]

Because its not bad stock? I don't know if this number is still true but Scholl said that for every $ they spend on MU basketball, the university gets an ROI of $7. Seems like great stock to me!

I would expect that trend to reverse as long as Steve is our "coach".  (I put coach in quotations because he clearly has very little skills in that department.)  20 points to a mid major with one player, no adjustments.  6 of 7 losses to end the season, with several scoreless minutes to close the game in many of those games.

[jutaw22mu]

No, the correct answer is...one that knows he can do better..one that wants to get the program back to where it belongs. One that sees that this program has been below expectations for where it should be. That's the Coach you'd get.

+1

[jutaw22mu]

I would expect that trend to reverse as long as Steve is our "coach".  (I put coach in quotations because he clearly has very little skills in that department.)  20 points to a mid major with one player, no adjustments.  6 of 7 losses to end the season, with several scoreless minutes to close the game in many of those games.

I mean come on, there was a fat guy who could barely get up and down the court!  Why not exploit that?  Speed up the play. Something.  Anything.

[muwarrior69]

And he was fired after going 14-15 with no postseason. Not after a 5 seed.

And c'mon Hilltopper, anyone can see that Deane was trending down while Wojo is trending up.

There are some of us who have tasted a National Championship that are in our sunset years, thus the impatience with the program. We want to see a product that is competent, competitive and can make a run to the basketball promised land. I want to see the 2020 recruiting class before I start having doubts about Wojo, since it is my view that it is as much the players ability to execute a play as it is the coach's to map out a play. He has to recruit player that can execute. We'll see if that is the case in this next class.

"Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts."
Winston Churchill

[Mr. Nielsen]

No, the correct answer is...one that knows he can do better..one that wants to get the program back to where it belongs. One that sees that this program has been below expectations for where it should be. That's the Coach you'd get.

You might want to read the original question that started the thread.

[barfolomew]

Let’s see what MSU does the rest of the way before making that claim.

Again, MU beat a 4, 5, two 6’s, a 7, a 10 already this year. 

If MSU goes deep on their crapshoot run, then maybe it was they who were under seeded, right?  Goes both ways.

What if MU played St Mary’s yesterday, a likely win.  Would that mean we were correctly seeded?  You guys are assigning results based on the seed without looking at who they played or what another similarly seeded team would be as an opponent.  Example, we are a 5...So is Wisconsin.  We beat Wisconsin this year, but they may win their opening game.  It DEPENDS who you play!!!!

I happen to mostly agree with you, but just because it's a crapshoot doesn't mean that it can't also be a bed crapping.

I think we saw evidence of both last night.

[ATL MU Warrior]

Why invest in bad stock (Wojo) when you can instead put the money into more attractive start-up packages to recruit better academic talent and raise the profile of the university the right way?

Just stop.  How much money/attention/prestige does the university get from men's basketball?  How many tens of millions of dollars in actual revenue and other intangible benefits?

How much money are they going to get from a marginally better student in the business college?  Nothing.

[Cheeks]

I would expect that trend to reverse as long as Steve is our "coach".  (I put coach in quotations because he clearly has very little skills in that department.)  20 points to a mid major with one player, no adjustments.  6 of 7 losses to end the season, with several scoreless minutes to close the game in many of those games.

But it hasn’t reversed, it has improved in the last five years. This ROI argument is fantasy, UNLESS attendance goes down QB, ticket sales are down, etc.  But right now, the ROI has been quite good and has trended up the last few years with this year being a great ROI year.

And this mid major comment, give it up already.  That is a very good team, that is an agenda driven adjective you are using.  That team is awfully good when they are shooting like that.  FSU has the athletes to stop them, but MSU would give most teams fits.

[HowardsWorld]

Lack of defense and rebounding? Those were probably the two biggest areas of improvement from last year to this year.

Yea I know. Which is sad because yesterday they were awful on both of those.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

 

Well said MUDish, well said.

However, I question whether Marquette and Board of Trustees want Marquette basketball to reach the next level?

Sadly, I agree with the original post, if the 2019 - 2020 season is a replay of this season, Wojo will remain the coach. 

"Just good enough, is good enough for Marquette."

Of course they would love to. But the right way. Like it or not that’s going to limit us.

[Cheeks]

Tourney seeds under Crean: 3, 5, 6, 7, 8

Average 5.8

Tourney seeds under Buzz: 3, 3, 6, 6, 11

Average 5.8

Inconvenient truth: In the last 20 years, Marquette has only been seeded better 3 times than they were this year.

I understand people want more.  I want more, too.  But I also realize this type of season is a pretty common for Marquette.

Only tells part of the story.

I would have LOVED to play Iowa, for example....but that would mean we were a 7 seed.

What our seed is does not mean a whole lot until you look at the schools that are in it.  There are 12 seeds here that are BETTER teams at this point in time than their seed indicates. 

The committee seeds someone based on their overall resume, but not how one is playing at the moment which is why using purely seeds has holes in it because of how teams are playing.  That includes MU’s collapse at the end, or Oregon’s rise in the last two weeks.

[NickelDimer]

Only tells part of the story.

I would have LOVED to play Iowa, for example....but that would mean we were a 7 seed.

What our seed is does not mean a whole lot until you look at the schools that are in it.  There are 12 seeds here that are BETTER teams at this point in time than their seed indicates. 

The committee seeds someone based on their overall resume, but not how one is playing at the moment which is why using purely seeds has holes in it because of how teams are playing.  That includes MU’s collapse at the end, or Oregon’s rise in the last two weeks.

I watched Iowa today. They would’ve shredded us.

[HowardsWorld]

To everyone who defends Wojo through all of this let me ask you this. What if next years team is equal to this years team or even takes a step back. Losing Howard/Morrow/Sam Hauser the following year isn't going to make the team 2 years from now better than this year. Wojo had a very small window this year and next and he failed on step one. What would Wojo have to do in the next two year to have you lose faith in him and want him fired? His window is now 1 year and thats next year before he has to restart with a new class to carry the team. I'm not trying to be a pessimist here but I am torn on the future here.