Clean program matter?

[WarriorDad]

There were several comments by members here sarcastically deriding that we run a clean program, or attempt to.  Apparently that was one reason for coach Williams minor transgressions that did not sit well with administrators.

Is it important to you?

In light of LSU winning yesterday and may have to vacate their title.

https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/lsu-wins-outright-sec-title-that-tiger-fans-celebrated-even-though-itll-probably-be-vacated/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

[tower912]

I know that after the transgressions under Crean and Williams, the administration wanted the anti-Buzz.   They got him.     Now, it is probably a coincidence, but MU's greatest basketball heights have come with a coach who was considered a rebel or quirky.      Al routinely thumbed his nose at the NCAA.   Buzz pushed the envelope.     Crean was a by-the-numbers coach who was unable to make his teams better than the sums of their parts.    So far, it is fair to say the same about Wojo.    Crean had his share of recruits who were not model citizens.   By the numbers, more Crean recruits got in trouble than Buzz recruits.     So far, none of Wojo's recruits have gotten into trouble.

In the end, it doesn't matter what I think.   It matters what the Marquette powers-that-be think.   

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

There is a threshold of cleanliness that needs to be achieved. Once you achieve that, winning matters most provided you don't dip below that threshold.

[GooooMarquette]

Yes, with a few de minimus exceptions.

I could live with occasional, truly minor things that don't affect the playing field (like Majerus taking a kid to a coffee shop at the hotel he lived in at Utah), but I would be very disappointed to learn of any significant and/or systematic violations.

As for the kids themselves, I can live with the stuff all college kids do (an underage drink, and such), but again would not want MU to tolerate acts of violence, cheating, academic misconduct, etc.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

There is a threshold of cleanliness that needs to be achieved. Once you achieve that, winning matters most provided you don't dip below that threshold.

Yes what does clean mean?

[rocket surgeon]

  if that "threshold" is the belly button, I'd say dip away as long as all the consent forms are signed, eyeyey'na heyooooo

[Dr. Blackheart]

What does "by the numbers" mean in regards to Crean?  He wasn't squeaky clean at IU.

[tower912]

What does "by the numbers" mean in regards to Crean?  He wasn't squeaky clean at IU.

Would 'paint-by-numbers' be a better description?

What I mean is that his offenses and defenses were pretty basic, no real innovations.    I remember when he arrived he said something along the lines of having a notebook with 3000 plays in it.   But the same 3 man weave.    He occasionally tried a vanilla zone, assuming that since he couldn't run an offense against it, neither could anyone else.     

Crean won 190 games in 9 years and took MU to a final four.   For those things, I thank him.   But time, distance, and perspective have led me to realize that he was, to my way of thinking, a 'paint-by-numbers' coach, and not an artist or innovator.

[NickelDimer]

Buzz ran a clean enough program for me while pushing some boundaries. That's my baseline for a guy that can coach as well as him

[Dr. Blackheart]

  Would 'paint-by-numbers' be a better description?

What I mean is that his offenses and defenses were pretty basic, no real innovations.    I remember when he arrived he said something along the lines of having a notebook with 3000 plays in it.   But the same 3 man weave.    He occasionally tried a vanilla zone, assuming that since he couldn't run an offense against it, neither could anyone else.     

Crean won 190 games in 9 years and took MU to a final four.   For those things, I thank him.   But time, distance, and perspective have led me to realize that he was, to my way of thinking, a 'paint-by-numbers' coach, and not an artist or innovator.

Got it.  I thought you were referring to his recruiting.  Thanks.

[Billy Hoyle]

I know that after the transgressions under Crean and Williams, the administration wanted the anti-Buzz.   They got him.     Now, it is probably a coincidence, but MU's greatest basketball heights have come with a coach who was considered a rebel or quirky.      Al routinely thumbed his nose at the NCAA.   Buzz pushed the envelope.     Crean was a by-the-numbers coach who was unable to make his teams better than the sums of their parts.    So far, it is fair to say the same about Wojo.    Crean had his share of recruits who were not model citizens.   By the numbers, more Crean recruits got in trouble than Buzz recruits.     So far, none of Wojo's recruits have gotten into trouble.

In the end, it doesn't matter what I think.   It matters what the Marquette powers-that-be think.

Please tell me the Crean recruits and players who were arrested and/or suspended, the rape scandals that he got involved with to shut down, the academic ineligibility issues, etc., or assistants involved in NCAA violations to where they had to quit, you know, as occurred under Buzz's tenure.

When guys got in trouble under Crean (Bell, Mortenson, Matthews) they were gone, no second chances, as it should be. Hell, one got dismissed by TC for Mary Jane and Buzz brought him back.

Buzz and his players laughed at academic and behavioral standards at MU.

[tower912]

I count Ammo among Crean's, too.    I seem to remember when he and Mortenson were cut loose that the AD was quite offended by their actions.    And I am not defending what happened under Buzz.    Just pointing out that there were a number of players with ties to Crean who also got in trouble. 

http://www.crackedsidewalks.com/2006/05/freshman-matt-mortensen-dismissed-from.html

[#UnleashSean]

Hell, one got dismissed by TC for Mary Jane and Buzz brought him back.

Buzz and his players laughed at academic and behavioral standards at MU.

As he should have. Who cares about weed? Or underage drinking. Stop being a prude.

[Billy Hoyle]

As he should have. Who cares about weed? Or underage drinking. Stop being a prude.

I vape myself, but when it's multiple failures as a scholarship student-athlete in violation of school and NCAA policy, it's time to go.

[Silent Verbal]

Love this thread.  We just pissed away a Big East regular season title and a high seed in the Tournament, so why not try to distract people from that by reminding them what a horrible human being Buzz was when he coached here half a decade ago?

[rocket surgeon]

As he should have. Who cares about weed? Or underage drinking. Stop being a prude.

  the problem ain't that they "partook" but that they got caught.  gotta be cool about it and maintain man...gotta maintain

[Newsdreams]

Mu main beef was sexual assault. Everything else was meh. My son was at the bar right by the team prior to the altercation, the UW-Milwaukee players started the whole thing, they started giving crap to the team and one of the UW players started to try to move on one of the girlfriends or date with the MU guys. He told me he knew it was going to get ugly.

[muguru]

Buzz ran a clean enough program for me while pushing some boundaries. That's my baseline for a guy that can coach as well as him

+1000, he never violated any NCAA rules, and more importantly to me...he won, and won a lot. too many people freak out about some things that happened off the court..They point to that and say that was why they wanted Buzz gone...that's ridiculous. as long as NCAA rules are being followed and you win...and win as much as he did..I want him. The stupid administration ruined MU basketball because they didn't like him.

[Newsdreams]

+1000, he never violated any NCAA rules, and more importantly to me...he won, and won a lot. too many people freak out about some things that happened off the court..They point to that and say that was why they wanted Buzz gone...that's ridiculous. as long as NCAA rules are being followed and you win...and win as much as he did..I want him. The stupid administration ruined MU basketball because they didn't like him.

There were some NCAA violations, no major ones, but there were some

[connie]

I am not the moral arbiter for collegiate behavior (and from what I have seen the NCAA shouldn't be either).  I don't want our players duck taping their room mates to chairs and interrogating them with cigarettes, but honestly, minor violations wouldn't phase me.

[Bad_Reporter]

Love this thread.  We just pissed away a Big East regular season title and a high seed in the Tournament, so why not try to distract people from that by reminding them what a horrible human being Buzz was when he coached here half a decade ago?

Was thinking the exact same thing

[Dr. Blackheart]

Patrick "ATM" Hazel

[dgies9156]

Let's start with the obvious:

Clean means that our ballplayers' sexual antic s DO NOT end up on Page 1 of the Chicago Tribune.

Clean means that our Public Safety employees follow Wisconsin law, even when basketball players are involved.

Clean means we are recruiting within the rules of the NCAA. That's means we follow rules for spending, avoiding payment to agents, families and players themselves.

Clean means we accept that there are limitations on when we can call on players, when we can text them and when we can write them.

Beyond that, Marquette should expect that our ballplayers are college students. We know they will inevitably do dumb things and some of those dumb things may bring unwanted and perhaps unwarranted publicity on themselves and on Marquette. We respect them as people but expect them to respect the university and we the community as well.

Marquette basketball players get degrees. Even if they turn pro early,  Marquette should expect and encourage them to come back as their lives permit and earn their degrees.

That's a clean program. This is what matters and, candidly, Marquette has to stand for something. Those among us who remember the Al days also remember that Coach McGuire's players graduated. Coach insisted on it and I believe only two did not have degrees by the time they were 30. Kids that left early inevitably came back and Marquette worked with them to get them their degrees.

Look, we need to find a way to be elite and to be clean!

[4everwarriors]

Yeah butt, wee kant even win the BE outwrite in 4 tries, hey?

[Nukem2]

Yeah butt, wee kant even win the BE outwrite in 4 tries, hey?

The Portage County Polacks say....  yah, but.  Youse got the syntax all goofy.