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Author Topic: NBA Refs. Can't make this stuff up.  (Read 1609 times)

buckchuckler

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GooooMarquette

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Re: NBA Refs. Can't make this stuff up.
« Reply #1 on: February 13, 2019, 04:32:18 PM »
That's some pretty serious rationalization right there.

Take it to its logical conclusion and you could pretty much juggle all the way down court....

StillAWarrior

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Re: NBA Refs. Can't make this stuff up.
« Reply #2 on: February 13, 2019, 05:15:31 PM »
Take it to its logical conclusion and you could pretty much juggle all the way down court....

Except that under the rule, the only thing you can do after regaining possession of the ball is pass or shoot.  You cannot dribble again.
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TallTitan34

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Re: NBA Refs. Can't make this stuff up.
« Reply #3 on: February 13, 2019, 06:21:43 PM »
But you could bobble again and get two more steps.

WarriorFan

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Re: NBA Refs. Can't make this stuff up.
« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2019, 01:49:53 AM »
If they're not going to call travelling on James Harden then they might just be better changing the rule to 5 steps... or 7.  Harden takes 5 on nearly every drive, and his step back is sometimes 5, sometimes 6.  In my view he's destroying the game.  I know the NBA wants scoring, but what has happened is really out of control.  Any guy with average talent - allowed to cheat play the way Harden does could also score 40 per.

Unfortunately other players - Milwaukee's beloved Giannis included - are also doing it more and more. 

I think it goes way beyond the refs... the league seems to be fostering a new type of play. Pretty soon it'll be like Aussie Rules football - one bounce every 15 meters!
"The meaning of life isn't gnashing our bicuspids over what comes after death but tasting the tiny moments that come before it."

StillAWarrior

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Re: NBA Refs. Can't make this stuff up.
« Reply #5 on: February 14, 2019, 08:27:45 AM »
If they're not going to call travelling on James Harden then they might just be better changing the rule to 5 steps... or 7.  Harden takes 5 on nearly every drive, and his step back is sometimes 5, sometimes 6.  In my view he's destroying the game.  I know the NBA wants scoring, but what has happened is really out of control.  Any guy with average talent - allowed to cheat play the way Harden does could also score 40 per.

Unfortunately other players - Milwaukee's beloved Giannis included - are also doing it more and more. 

I think it goes way beyond the refs... the league seems to be fostering a new type of play. Pretty soon it'll be like Aussie Rules football - one bounce every 15 meters!

Honestly, I'm just as bothered by the palming that they allow.  It's impossible to guard someone who is allowed to palm the ball on every dribble.
Never wrestle with a pig.  You both get dirty, and the pig likes it.

JWags85

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Re: NBA Refs. Can't make this stuff up.
« Reply #6 on: February 14, 2019, 09:27:22 AM »
If they're not going to call travelling on James Harden then they might just be better changing the rule to 5 steps... or 7.  Harden takes 5 on nearly every drive, and his step back is sometimes 5, sometimes 6.  In my view he's destroying the game.  I know the NBA wants scoring, but what has happened is really out of control.  Any guy with average talent - allowed to cheat play the way Harden does could also score 40 per.

Come on man.  Did you ever play basketball above a middle school level?  Harden is one of the best pure scorers ever to play the game.  Extrapolating what he does to say someone with average talent could still score 40 is beyond asinine.  He spends countless hours studying tape and film to develop a game that stretches the boundaries of the NBA rule book.  Creative gathers, compound movements, etc.. all to make it difficult to guard and officiate.  All of that is also INSANELY hard to execute.  Average talent isn't converting step back 3s at any consistent rate like he does.  I'll give Delladova 6 steps and he's not scoring like Harden

Calling it cheating is childish.  He's not using pine tar, deflating the basketball, throwing sand in his defender's face.  It may be poor officiating, but penalizing a player for playing in the realm of what an official will allow is petty.

wadesworld

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Re: NBA Refs. Can't make this stuff up.
« Reply #7 on: February 14, 2019, 09:43:14 AM »
There's a reason guys like Harden and Westbrook will never win a ring (at least not as the feature player of a franchise...maybe when they're into their upper 30s and just want a ring will come off the bench for a star studded team somewhere they get a ring) despite their historic offensive numbers.
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jesmu84

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Re: NBA Refs. Can't make this stuff up.
« Reply #8 on: February 14, 2019, 10:37:32 AM »
Come on man.  Did you ever play basketball above a middle school level?  Harden is one of the best pure scorers ever to play the game.  Extrapolating what he does to say someone with average talent could still score 40 is beyond asinine.  He spends countless hours studying tape and film to develop a game that stretches the boundaries of the NBA rule book.  Creative gathers, compound movements, etc.. all to make it difficult to guard and officiate.  All of that is also INSANELY hard to execute.  Average talent isn't converting step back 3s at any consistent rate like he does.  I'll give Delladova 6 steps and he's not scoring like Harden

Calling it cheating is childish.  He's not using pine tar, deflating the basketball, throwing sand in his defender's face.  It may be poor officiating, but penalizing a player for playing in the realm of what an official will allow is petty.

Harden travels on the majority of his stepback 3s. Is that his fault it isn't called? No, obviously not.

MU82

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Re: NBA Refs. Can't make this stuff up.
« Reply #9 on: February 14, 2019, 10:46:58 AM »
I believe at least a couple coaches have complained that Markus travels similarly to Harden on the step-backs.
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WarriorFan

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Re: NBA Refs. Can't make this stuff up.
« Reply #10 on: February 14, 2019, 01:14:28 PM »
Come on man.  Did you ever play basketball above a middle school level?  Harden is one of the best pure scorers ever to play the game.  Extrapolating what he does to say someone with average talent could still score 40 is beyond asinine.  He spends countless hours studying tape and film to develop a game that stretches the boundaries of the NBA rule book.  Creative gathers, compound movements, etc.. all to make it difficult to guard and officiate.  All of that is also INSANELY hard to execute.  Average talent isn't converting step back 3s at any consistent rate like he does.  I'll give Delladova 6 steps and he's not scoring like Harden

Calling it cheating is childish.  He's not using pine tar, deflating the basketball, throwing sand in his defender's face.  It may be poor officiating, but penalizing a player for playing in the realm of what an official will allow is petty.

First of all, yes... and although my best days are well behind me I still play in 3 recreational leagues although I much prefer a good game of pickup ball.

Second, it’s the same reason I don’t like European football and much prefer English Premier league.    All the faking and rolling around on the ground to influence the refs in Europe ruins the game.

Maybe I’m a purist, maybe I’m old fashioned, but my respect for the game is too great so I see stretching the rules like Harden does as a long term negative.

By the way, his moves work.   I have used his top of the key start of the drive push-off (just to see how effective it is, it’s not hard at all to do) and the defender doesn’t know what to do... but in a good pickup game, the second time you try it you’ll get called out big-time.  There are plenty of ways to do a step back within the rules.

As for the other post about Markus’s step back, sometimes it’s legal, sometimes not.  He’s been called for traveling at least once.
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Jockey

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Re: NBA Refs. Can't make this stuff up.
« Reply #11 on: February 14, 2019, 02:05:09 PM »


Maybe I’m a purist, maybe I’m old fashioned, but my respect for the game is too great so I see stretching the rules like Harden does as a long term negative.



As a purist, are you against the three point shot or the wider lane?

Bring back the peach baskets!

CreightonWarrior

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Re: NBA Refs. Can't make this stuff up.
« Reply #12 on: February 14, 2019, 02:07:54 PM »
Josh Okogie's Harden block last night was pretty awesome

JWags85

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Re: NBA Refs. Can't make this stuff up.
« Reply #13 on: February 14, 2019, 02:14:35 PM »
First of all, yes... and although my best days are well behind me I still play in 3 recreational leagues although I much prefer a good game of pickup ball.

Second, it’s the same reason I don’t like European football and much prefer English Premier league.    All the faking and rolling around on the ground to influence the refs in Europe ruins the game.

Maybe I’m a purist, maybe I’m old fashioned, but my respect for the game is too great so I see stretching the rules like Harden does as a long term negative.

By the way, his moves work.   I have used his top of the key start of the drive push-off (just to see how effective it is, it’s not hard at all to do) and the defender doesn’t know what to do... but in a good pickup game, the second time you try it you’ll get called out big-time.  There are plenty of ways to do a step back within the rules.

As for the other post about Markus’s step back, sometimes it’s legal, sometimes not.  He’s been called for traveling at least once.

England isn't in Europe?  Damn.  How'd I pass geography?  Just because the Brits don't do it, plenty of others in that league do it to great effect.

And oh ok, as long as the old dudes at the Y have a problem with it, lets stamp it out from the top levels of the game too.  Does your pickup game come with "call your own foul" FT shooting too? Come on man, purists hated "the dunk" shot enough to make it illegal for awhile.

I can buy the argument that the NBA is too loose on travelling.  They have been for years.  Trying to pretend that you're just as good as Harden if you can play like that is beyond a joke.  Pretending that his skill and success is only because of "cheating" is a joke.  Lebron invented a "crab dribble" which was a juggle gather that was a travel but he named it and did it so much the refs let it be.  That certainly isn't the reason he's good or successful.

WarriorFan

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Re: NBA Refs. Can't make this stuff up.
« Reply #14 on: February 14, 2019, 09:49:54 PM »
I was referring to European football the way the English do... a habit gained when I lived in England.

As for the rest - and this is my last post on the subject - the 3 pointer and wider lane were rules changes.  Time has proven them to have benefitted the game.  What Harden does - and the officials allow - is not a rule change.  In fact when Steph did the same move he was called for traveling.  It is a rule violation.  I'm all for changes that benefit the game.  I don't see how violations benefit it - just like I didn't like the impact of steroids on baseball. 
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GooooMarquette

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Re: NBA Refs. Can't make this stuff up.
« Reply #15 on: February 15, 2019, 11:41:49 AM »
Except that under the rule, the only thing you can do after regaining possession of the ball is pass or shoot.  You cannot dribble again.


Which is why I said you'd juggle all the way down court....

And I agree with WarriorFan - the thing they allow Harden to do is a joke. A violation of current rules, pure and simple.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2019, 11:44:50 AM by GooooMarquette »