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Author Topic: 7.5 Man Rotation and Minutes  (Read 1693 times)

1SE

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7.5 Man Rotation and Minutes
« on: January 11, 2019, 03:42:34 AM »
3 games into BE play and it's pretty clear Wojo has settled into a 7.5 man rotation. Like they always do, our transfers have settled into their roles and are making nice contributions.

But our two-headed 3 (Cain/Bailey) over the past 3 games:

SJU: 21 minutes
X: 10 minutes
CU: 11 minutes

By contrast:

Markus: SJU (26), X(37), CU (43): AVG 35.33
Sam: SJU (37), X(24), CU (42): AVG 34.33
Joey: SJU (28), X(37), CU (35): AVG 33.33
Sacar: SJU (20), X(36), CU (33) AVG 29.66

Ironic of course since all the off-season banter was about how we were going to find minutes for 10 guys, but I'm wondering if going 7.5 isn't going to take a toll as the season rolls on. I know these are 19 and 20 year old elite athletes in their prime, and we're not doing a pitch-count, but is running 3 or 4 guys near-max minutes going to catch up to them? Especially with short-turn arounds?

In other words, how important for our conference success is it for Cain or Bailey to step up and put in 20 minutes consistently as the "8th man"? Will we drop a game we might have otherwise won because of "tired legs"?
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wadesworld

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Re: 7.5 Man Rotation and Minutes
« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2019, 06:39:30 AM »
Look at the minutes Nova players played last year (and most years). It didn’t seem to hurt them, or if it did then they were even better than they showed on the court and that is absurd.

They’re 18-22 year old kids. Markus, Sam, Joey, and Sacar should be playing 30+ minutes/game. They’re our 4 best players.

jsglow

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Re: 7.5 Man Rotation and Minutes
« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2019, 06:49:41 AM »
No 8th man is ever going to see 20 minutes.

And your averages are skewed because we just had to play OT.  I'm assuming you aren't suggesting that Markus shoulda sat!   ;D

1SE

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Re: 7.5 Man Rotation and Minutes
« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2019, 07:08:30 AM »
Right, I'm suggesting we have a two-headed 8th man (Bailey/Cain) - looking at their collective minutes as the "8".

Also minutes are up from including the OT game, but even if you take away ~2 minutes from the averages.

If we look back to the off-season discussions  I suppose we all though Sam and Markus would be playing 30-35.

I think the biggest surprise is Joey at around 30 and Sacar at 25+.

It will be interesting to see if they all have the same pop in their legs for Seton Hall.
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tower912

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Re: 7.5 Man Rotation and Minutes
« Reply #4 on: January 11, 2019, 07:11:52 AM »
I think either Cain or Bailey is about to have a breakthrough game and take over the 8th spot in the rotation.     I feel an 8-10 pt, 15-18 minute game coming from one of them.   
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

1SE

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Re: 7.5 Man Rotation and Minutes
« Reply #5 on: January 11, 2019, 07:15:03 AM »
I think either Cain or Bailey is about to have a breakthrough game and take over the 8th spot in the rotation.     I feel an 8-10 pt, 15-18 minute game coming from one of them.

Would be great - I think Sacar is really stepping up but it's nice to have some kind of comparable sevicable replacement if/when he has a flat night.
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Vander Blue Man Group

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Re: 7.5 Man Rotation and Minutes
« Reply #6 on: January 11, 2019, 07:19:58 AM »
Part of it is also the loss of Greg. He probably could have seen 15 mpg, give or take, especially against an offense like SJ or Creighton.

wadesworld

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Re: 7.5 Man Rotation and Minutes
« Reply #7 on: January 11, 2019, 07:53:57 AM »
I think either Cain or Bailey is about to have a breakthrough game and take over the 8th spot in the rotation.     I feel an 8-10 pt, 15-18 minute game coming from one of them.

I think Sam is more due for a 25 point game than Jamal or Brendan are for a 10 point game.  I don't think they'll get the ball enough with how we play offense for that.

mu_hilltopper

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Re: 7.5 Man Rotation and Minutes
« Reply #8 on: January 11, 2019, 08:10:36 AM »

They’re 18-22 year old kids.

This.  And that for every 1 game minute, they practice/condition/lift ~5 minutes, maybe 10.  Playing an extra 5 minutes a game shouldn't be that big a deal.

bilsu

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Re: 7.5 Man Rotation and Minutes
« Reply #9 on: January 11, 2019, 08:11:06 AM »
Nobody was in foul trouble in the Creighton game, so there was less need for Cain or Bailey to play.

IrwinFletcher

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Re: 7.5 Man Rotation and Minutes
« Reply #10 on: January 11, 2019, 09:04:10 AM »
SJU plays 6 or 6.5 guys as well.  If you are worried about MU, then Mullin should be terrified.

In Novas win vs SJU, Booth and Paschall scored 50 of their 70 ish points.  Don’t think anyone else was in double figures.  They are not getting a lot of help from their bench either.

This is why coaches back off their practices as the season wears on.  18-21 years old or not, the season is a grind and it can physically wear on a player.  That is why it would be nice to have a blowout or two along the way and let guys play 25-28 minutes.

Goose

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Re: 7.5 Man Rotation and Minutes
« Reply #11 on: January 11, 2019, 09:25:42 AM »
I became more optimistic on the season when a smaller rotation looked likely to happen. I was not a fan of a 9-10 man rotation with this group. Far better chance of competing on nightly basis by playing the best players. There is a drop off when you get past 7.5 in my book.

MUeagle1090

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Re: 7.5 Man Rotation and Minutes
« Reply #12 on: January 11, 2019, 10:02:43 AM »
Nobody was in foul trouble in the Creighton game, so there was less need for Cain or Bailey to play.

Sacar fouled out

tower912

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Re: 7.5 Man Rotation and Minutes
« Reply #13 on: January 15, 2019, 10:02:56 PM »
I think either Cain or Bailey is about to have a breakthrough game and take over the 8th spot in the rotation.     I feel an 8-10 pt, 15-18 minute game coming from one of them.

Bump.   Self high five
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

GB Warrior

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Re: 7.5 Man Rotation and Minutes
« Reply #14 on: January 15, 2019, 10:05:19 PM »
Nobody says "It's only a game" when their team is winning.

Eye

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Re: 7.5 Man Rotation and Minutes
« Reply #15 on: January 15, 2019, 10:07:37 PM »
GO WARRIORS!

1SE

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Re: 7.5 Man Rotation and Minutes
« Reply #16 on: March 03, 2019, 08:24:09 PM »
3 games into BE play and it's pretty clear Wojo has settled into a 7.5 man rotation. Like they always do, our transfers have settled into their roles and are making nice contributions.

But our two-headed 3 (Cain/Bailey) over the past 3 games:

SJU: 21 minutes
X: 10 minutes
CU: 11 minutes

By contrast:

Markus: SJU (26), X(37), CU (43): AVG 35.33
Sam: SJU (37), X(24), CU (42): AVG 34.33
Joey: SJU (28), X(37), CU (35): AVG 33.33
Sacar: SJU (20), X(36), CU (33) AVG 29.66

Ironic of course since all the off-season banter was about how we were going to find minutes for 10 guys, but I'm wondering if going 7.5 isn't going to take a toll as the season rolls on. I know these are 19 and 20 year old elite athletes in their prime, and we're not doing a pitch-count, but is running 3 or 4 guys near-max minutes going to catch up to them? Especially with short-turn arounds?

In other words, how important for our conference success is it for Cain or Bailey to step up and put in 20 minutes consistently as the "8th man"? Will we drop a game we might have otherwise won because of "tired legs"?

Sure seemed to last night. And against Nova. Going flat in the last 5 minutes of a game is a sure sign of tired legs.

Last night was a clunker, but everyone gets one. I'd rather have it now than in the NCAA.
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GoldenEagle323

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Re: 7.5 Man Rotation and Minutes
« Reply #17 on: March 03, 2019, 08:25:16 PM »
Cain needs to play more over bailey

tower912

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Re: 7.5 Man Rotation and Minutes
« Reply #18 on: March 03, 2019, 08:26:54 PM »
Cain needs to play more over bailey

Why?
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

1SE

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Re: 7.5 Man Rotation and Minutes
« Reply #19 on: March 07, 2019, 07:33:40 AM »
3 games into BE play and it's pretty clear Wojo has settled into a 7.5 man rotation. Like they always do, our transfers have settled into their roles and are making nice contributions.

But our two-headed 3 (Cain/Bailey) over the past 3 games:

SJU: 21 minutes
X: 10 minutes
CU: 11 minutes

By contrast:

Markus: SJU (26), X(37), CU (43): AVG 35.33
Sam: SJU (37), X(24), CU (42): AVG 34.33
Joey: SJU (28), X(37), CU (35): AVG 33.33
Sacar: SJU (20), X(36), CU (33) AVG 29.66

Ironic of course since all the off-season banter was about how we were going to find minutes for 10 guys, but I'm wondering if going 7.5 isn't going to take a toll as the season rolls on. I know these are 19 and 20 year old elite athletes in their prime, and we're not doing a pitch-count, but is running 3 or 4 guys near-max minutes going to catch up to them? Especially with short-turn arounds?

In other words, how important for our conference success is it for Cain or Bailey to step up and put in 20 minutes consistently as the "8th man"? Will we drop a game we might have otherwise won because of "tired legs"

Markus avg MPG in conference since this post (dropping @Gtown) 36.46
Sam avg 35.86

Say what you will about prime athletes and conditioning, that kind of usage has to have had made some kind of contribution to Sam and Markus' end of game woes these past 3.
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DoctorV

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Re: 7.5 Man Rotation and Minutes
« Reply #20 on: March 07, 2019, 08:08:01 AM »
Markus avg MPG in conference since this post (dropping @Gtown) 36.46
Sam avg 35.86

Say what you will about prime athletes and conditioning, that kind of usage has to have had made some kind of contribution to Sam and Markus' end of game woes these past 3.

Markus played 33 and 28 mins in two of the three because of fouls, with extended bench time in the second half of both. If anything, being out of sync due to benchtime and coming back in at crunch time is a bigger contributor to his poor play down the stretch

Sam played every minute yesterday and had one of his best offensive performances of the yr w big shot after big shot. Sure he missed late but everyone did.

Team got hammered by Miles going Markus and the crowd going nuts. He scored 9 consecutive in about a minute and a half at the under 4- and no it wasn’t Marquette’s fault he was just in a zone. It was a knockout punch neither the team or coach could recover from.

Tip the cap to SH for likely punching a bid w the win

mufanatic

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Re: 7.5 Man Rotation and Minutes
« Reply #21 on: March 07, 2019, 10:37:13 AM »
The biggest problem with minutes played is with Joey.  Remember he didn't play at all last year, rehabbing an injury.  A freshmen playing huge minutes in a tough league and he is now out of gas.  Should of been recognized a few weeks ago by coach and minutes should of been adjusted.  Might be too late now to salvage a rebound from him. 

Fluffy Blue Monster

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Re: 7.5 Man Rotation and Minutes
« Reply #22 on: March 07, 2019, 10:48:15 AM »
If you look at his game logs this year, Joey's minutes have decreased.  He was regularly around 30 per game through @Butler, which is where his struggles began.  Then you saw some cutback in minutes until @Providence, where he had a very good game, and @Nova where he struggled at the end after a good start.

Last night he only had 23.  Bailey had 21.  The problem again is lack of decent options.

mufanatic

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Re: 7.5 Man Rotation and Minutes
« Reply #23 on: March 07, 2019, 11:19:52 AM »
If you look at his game logs this year, Joey's minutes have decreased.  He was regularly around 30 per game through @Butler, which is where his struggles began.  Then you saw some cutback in minutes until @Providence, where he had a very good game, and @Nova where he struggled at the end after a good start.

Last night he only had 23.  Bailey had 21.  The problem again is lack of decent options.

The kid has missed a whole year of basketball and his legs look like rubber.  The only reason his minutes were low in a few games was due to his foul situation.  If he is not in foul trouble, Wojo is leaving him on the court.  Bailey would of had 5 minutes of playing time if Joey didn't pick up his 2nd foul early in the first half and Bailey was a good option last night.

willie warrior

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Re: 7.5 Man Rotation and Minutes
« Reply #24 on: March 07, 2019, 05:29:20 PM »
3 games into BE play and it's pretty clear Wojo has settled into a 7.5 man rotation. Like they always do, our transfers have settled into their roles and are making nice contributions.

But our two-headed 3 (Cain/Bailey) over the past 3 games:

SJU: 21 minutes
X: 10 minutes
CU: 11 minutes

By contrast:

Markus: SJU (26), X(37), CU (43): AVG 35.33
Sam: SJU (37), X(24), CU (42): AVG 34.33
Joey: SJU (28), X(37), CU (35): AVG 33.33
Sacar: SJU (20), X(36), CU (33) AVG 29.66

Ironic of course since all the off-season banter was about how we were going to find minutes for 10 guys, but I'm wondering if going 7.5 isn't going to take a toll as the season rolls on. I know these are 19 and 20 year old elite athletes in their prime, and we're not doing a pitch-count, but is running 3 or 4 guys near-max minutes going to catch up to them? Especially with short-turn arounds?

In other words, how important for our conference success is it for Cain or Bailey to step up and put in 20 minutes consistently as the "8th man"? Will we drop a game we might have otherwise won because of "tired legs"?
How J. Hauser is getting 33 minutes per game with his performance is truly preposterous.