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Author Topic: College Endowments  (Read 1638 times)

theBabyDavid

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Re: College Endowments
« Reply #50 on: January 07, 2019, 04:49:42 PM »
This I can (and do) agree with, my friend.

Mike,

As you know, I am a big fan of technical education and vocational training. I believe the European model of O levels/A levels has tremendous merit; our distaste for anything less than a "college degree" works against us as a society properly prepared to address the requirements challenges of a diverse work force. 

People get 4 year degrees that do not prepare them for an increasingly technical world. I believe a liberal arts major is less able to contribute than someone who learns to code at one of the 1's and 0's tech schools now popping up in places like Redmond and San Jose.

There was a book written about 20 years ago that made the case for trade schools - how the plumber, HVAC repairman, etc... earned far more over a career than did the arts major. Furthermore, from a societal contribution standpoint, the plumber provides a genuine service valued by the majority of society versus the guy fund raising for a third rate college or working the phones at a collection agency.

By extension,  the reflexive end point for those looking to get a master's degree is to get an MBA. Because most will never use the skills imparted in an MBA program it is likely a better investment of time and lucre to get a deeper understanding of a specific vertical - ie stats, chemistry, etc...

For some reason, the MBA has become the supposed "must have credential" but the reality is that most people will never benefit from the effort. MBAs are to prepare one for general management; most folks never get that far in a career. 
"I don't care what Chick says, my mom's a babe" 

theBabyDavid

theBabyDavid

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Re: College Endowments
« Reply #51 on: January 07, 2019, 04:50:44 PM »
One of the most amazing networks I’ve seen is with Texas A&M.   The alumni network is very tight, and they take care of their own.

Yea, but they are f#cking Aggies...
"I don't care what Chick says, my mom's a babe" 

theBabyDavid

theBabyDavid

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Re: College Endowments
« Reply #52 on: January 07, 2019, 05:01:58 PM »
Testy! There’s little shame in simply admitting you got duped. Lots of good, salt of the earth folk did too.

Duped? I love the guy who never went to Ranger school nor worked in the teams offer their expert opinion on said operations. As a Ranger-tabbed TACP who was the CAS Chief for III Corps I think your perspective on Spec Ops is limited to what you see in third-rate Cannon Group movies.

You are what is called a wanna-be. I beg you to hang outside the gate of Hurlburt Field, D-M AFB, Ft Hood or Ft Lewis with a Ranger tee shirt on your scrawny a$$. The beat down you will receive would be f#cking hilarious to witness. 
"I don't care what Chick says, my mom's a babe" 

theBabyDavid

theBabyDavid

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Re: College Endowments
« Reply #53 on: January 07, 2019, 05:15:02 PM »
If you're talking about leaving a steady job for two years to go back to school for a full time MBA program, I not only agree, but would say you're being extremely generous when you say it's worth it only for a top 20 program.  I would argue it's only worth it for top 10, maybe top 12-15 if you're being extremely generous, but I don't even think it's worth it at the 12-15 raking range.

That said, I completely disagree that getting a part time MBA from any local university is a waste of time and effort, especially if your employer is willing to pick up some of the tab.  There is an intrinsic value to the education that can only help and I've even read articles on Poets and Quants.com of all places, which only caters to students applying to the most elite B schools, that says research indicates that MBA's can be tremendously helpful in one's career, regardless of the institution granting it.   Not everyone wants to go into Investment Banking or work at McKinsey and it's absoultely true that no one that doesn't hold a blue chip credential could even get an interview, much less a full time job at a place like that, but most people don't work at those firms or aspire to a high finance job in New York, London, Hong Kong or Singapore and their ilk.  From everything I've read, MU's part time MBA program is thriving.  Again  I would never encourage anyone to quit their job and go to MU for a Full Time MBA, that would be a waste of time in my view, and you're not going to impress anyone at Goldman Sachs but if you're a local professional in the greater MKE area or Chicago, and just want to increase your chances of further advancement where you are, I have no doubt that a Marquette MBA will pay dividends down road.

The strength of a Top 10 MBA is the connections one makes that have national and international reach. It is a great door opener but having an out-sized network one can tap into is a huge asset.

In the same way, I believe if one has any degree from a school in a particular region with a strong alumni network the degree has an intrinsic value that delivers significant returns. I know that if one is graduated from any of the larger state schools in Texas (UT, A&M, TT) there is an invaluable network which will benefit one's career.

As Dgies pointed out, his Loyola MBA paid him back in spades as he climbed the ladder in Chicago.
"I don't care what Chick says, my mom's a babe" 

theBabyDavid

MU82

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Re: College Endowments
« Reply #54 on: January 07, 2019, 06:33:33 PM »
Mike,

As you know, I am a big fan of technical education and vocational training. I believe the European model of O levels/A levels has tremendous merit; our distaste for anything less than a "college degree" works against us as a society properly prepared to address the requirements challenges of a diverse work force. 

People get 4 year degrees that do not prepare them for an increasingly technical world. I believe a liberal arts major is less able to contribute than someone who learns to code at one of the 1's and 0's tech schools now popping up in places like Redmond and San Jose.

There was a book written about 20 years ago that made the case for trade schools - how the plumber, HVAC repairman, etc... earned far more over a career than did the arts major. Furthermore, from a societal contribution standpoint, the plumber provides a genuine service valued by the majority of society versus the guy fund raising for a third rate college or working the phones at a collection agency.

By extension,  the reflexive end point for those looking to get a master's degree is to get an MBA. Because most will never use the skills imparted in an MBA program it is likely a better investment of time and lucre to get a deeper understanding of a specific vertical - ie stats, chemistry, etc...

For some reason, the MBA has become the supposed "must have credential" but the reality is that most people will never benefit from the effort. MBAs are to prepare one for general management; most folks never get that far in a career.

My daughter graduated college in 2009 and went to work. She didn't go for her MBA for several years, and her employer paid a pretty nice chunk of it. That led to her getting a promotion and a nice pay bump, and she loves her employer. It's all good!
We must remember that intelligence is not enough. Intelligence plus character – that is the goal of true education.

-- Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.

Babybluejeans

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Re: College Endowments
« Reply #55 on: January 07, 2019, 06:45:43 PM »
Duped? I love the guy who never went to Ranger school nor worked in the teams offer their expert opinion on said operations. As a Ranger-tabbed TACP who was the CAS Chief for III Corps I think your perspective on Spec Ops is limited to what you see in third-rate Cannon Group movies.

You are what is called a wanna-be. I beg you to hang outside the gate of Hurlburt Field, D-M AFB, Ft Hood or Ft Lewis with a Ranger tee shirt on your scrawny a$$. The beat down you will receive would be f#cking hilarious to witness.




GGGG

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Re: College Endowments
« Reply #56 on: January 08, 2019, 10:53:07 AM »
Couple quick thoughts on this topic:

1. Keefe is 100% right that if your goal is to work for a Fortune 500 company or a consulting firm, an MBA from anything but the most prestigious of schools isn't going to cut it.  However most people don't work for those type of firms.  They are working for local or regional firms where an MBA can make a difference.  It can HELP you get that promotion or next job that will pay you $15-20,000 more a year.  So it's not hard to do the math.  Is it as important as it was 20 years ago?  No.  Is it a guaranty?  No.  But programs wouldn't be as popular as they are unless they made a difference. The marketplace has spoken.

2. The key to financial health of a private school isn't simply its endowment size, but how flexible it is.  Donor agreements limit the use of the endowment.  So for instance, an endowment that is primarily made up of scholarships can help recruit students, but it doesn't provide extra income to the school.  Endowments that are dedicated toward operations (professorships, etc.) or without any restriction at all, give schools much more flexibility.

3.  It's also important to look at how much debt schools are carrying.  St. Joseph's in Indiana was carrying a bunch of debt AND operating at a loss.  There are schools that are smaller, but run much better, have a more flexible endowment, and are largely debt free, that are going to be around a LONG time.  Look at Ripon College.  It only has 800 students, a $85 million endowment and mostly liberal arts programs.  Reading the comments here, you'd think they'd be in huge trouble right?

Hardly.  According to their 990 in 2015-16, they turned a $7 million profit on an expense budget of $44 million.  (Granted that was during a good year investment wise, but even if they returned 0% on their endowment, they STILL would have turned a profit.)  They hardly have any debt and raise about five times more a year than St. Josephs did.  And it is much easier to accomplish this when you only have to recruit a freshman class of about 200 to be profitable. 

And according to the Princeton Review, "Ninety-six percent of alumni are employed, in graduate school or student-teaching within six months (of graduation.)"  Not bad for a small school with a small endowment that is about as traditional liberal arts as you can imagine.

The reasons why these schools survive or fail are more complex than is being portrayed here.  I'm certainly not disputing however that you will see more college closures in the next few decades.  And that's OK - no different than most industries out there.  But it isn't going to be a massive wave of closures unless the country incurs a financial crisis much more than it did in 2008.

StillAWarrior

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Re: College Endowments
« Reply #57 on: January 08, 2019, 12:21:04 PM »
3.  It's also important to look at how much debt schools are carrying.

This made me think about High Point, which Herman mentioned earlier in the thread.  As he mentioned, they've really invested in their campus.  It's undeniably beautiful, but seemed a little over the top in many respects (to me).  It would appear that they spared no expense.  But to me it just really felt like they were trying too hard to show how much money they had spent.  In some cases (some beautiful buildings and landscaping), to great effect.  In other places (the 26 flagpoles in one parking lot come to mind), not so much.  It's hard to describe, but the entire place felt kind of surreal.

But I can't help but wonder if it's a sustainable model.  There was a Bloomberg article several years ago discussing it that referred to it as "Bubble U."  I'm curious how they are doing.  I just checked, and saw reports of an endowment ranging from $57 to $65 million.  That seems awfully low, and with what they did to their campus, I'd think that have a lot of debt...but don't know.  The article linked above from 2012 said they'd already spent $700 million and planned to spend $2.1 billion by 2020.  I remain curious to see if they succeed.
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Ellenson Family Reunion

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Re: College Endowments
« Reply #58 on: January 08, 2019, 12:21:34 PM »
Well, Crash, all I'll say is that my daughter got her MBA from a program nowhere near the top 20 and it has helped her career.

As usual, generalizations always suck.

They especially suck when they're as condescending as the one you quoted. Embarrassingly insecure, but that's just keefe being keefe i guess