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Author Topic: College Endowments  (Read 1904 times)

theBabyDavid

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Re: College Endowments
« Reply #25 on: January 06, 2019, 05:44:47 AM »
Well, Crash, all I'll say is that my daughter got her MBA from a program nowhere near the top 20 and it has helped her career.

As usual, generalizations always suck.

Mike,

Generalizations, such as your comment above, are almost always indicative of reality.

Let's try this: Imagine your daughter's career trajectory if she had a degree from Wharton.

There are always exceptions to every rule.
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theBabyDavid

MU82

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Re: College Endowments
« Reply #26 on: January 06, 2019, 06:46:46 AM »
Mike,

Generalizations, such as your comment above, are almost always indicative of reality.

Let's try this: Imagine your daughter's career trajectory if she had a degree from Wharton.

There are always exceptions to every rule.

I can imagine a lot of things, including if she were born into money instead of being my kid, if she were an award-winning actress, or if she were a 6-foot-9 man with Kevin Durant's ability. It's a silly exercise. She's doing great without the silver-spoon childhood, the acting ability, Durant's height (and gender), and the Wharton degree.
"We need journalists who are on the side of victims, on the side of those who are persecuted, excluded, thrown away and discriminated against ... situations of suffering that often are in the dark, or have light shining for a moment only to return to the darkness of indifference."

-- Pope Francis

rocket surgeon

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Re: College Endowments
« Reply #27 on: January 06, 2019, 08:35:06 AM »
I can imagine a lot of things, including if she were born into money instead of being my kid, if she were an award-winning actress, or if she were a 6-foot-9 man with Kevin Durant's ability. It's a silly exercise. She's doing great without the silver-spoon childhood, the acting ability, Durant's height (and gender), and the Wharton degree.

I think you are,missing the point there mike.  Crash never said your daughter was a piece of schmit or anything.  She is probably doing as well as she wanted to do and that’s cool.  However, what he is saying is, if she or anyone else for that matter, got their MBA from a top 20 or better, bigger and better opportunity would have fallen into their laps by default.  Whether or not said person decides to follow those bigger and better opportunities is up to them of course. 

 Let’s say your daughter had aspirations to working for an Eli-Lilly or Procter & gamble as a “big dog”. Now compare MBA’s from st. Norbert’s and Stanford and...now, as you’ve stated, she’s doing very well and is content with where she is with her MBA from something short of the big 20-you as her father should be very proud
« Last Edit: January 06, 2019, 08:43:01 AM by rocket surgeon »

real chili 83

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Re: College Endowments
« Reply #28 on: January 06, 2019, 08:54:30 AM »
One of the most amazing networks I’ve seen is with Texas A&M.   The alumni network is very tight, and they take care of their own.

MU82

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Re: College Endowments
« Reply #29 on: January 06, 2019, 09:26:13 AM »
I think you are,missing the point there mike.  Crash never said your daughter was a piece of schmit or anything.  She is probably doing as well as she wanted to do and that’s cool.  However, what he is saying is, if she or anyone else for that matter, got their MBA from a top 20 or better, bigger and better opportunity would have fallen into their laps by default.  Whether or not said person decides to follow those bigger and better opportunities is up to them of course. 

 Let’s say your daughter had aspirations to working for an Eli-Lilly or Procter & gamble as a “big dog”. Now compare MBA’s from st. Norbert’s and Stanford and...now, as you’ve stated, she’s doing very well and is content with where she is with her MBA from something short of the big 20-you as her father should be very proud

Actually, what Crash said was: "getting  an MBA from anything less than the top 20 program is a waste of time"

Based on personal experience, not just with my daughter but with CEOs and other "important folks" that I know, I happen to disagree strongly that an MBA from the 21st-best or 100th-best program is automatically a "waste of time."

If he had made an argument similar to yours -- that my daughter might have gotten better opportunities with an MBA from Wharton -- I wouldn't disagree with that. But that's not what Crash said. He said a degree from any non-Wharton-ish institution is a "waste of time."

He's obviously wrong, as every CEO of every major corporation, every high-level politician, every university president, etc, did not come from a top-20 MBA program. The programs they went through obviously were not "a waste of time."

I like Crash, we agree on much and we have had many friendly conversations, and I probably should have said all I had to say in a PM to him. But when you come out with an easily disproven generalization worded as strongly as his comment was, you have to expect some blowback.
"We need journalists who are on the side of victims, on the side of those who are persecuted, excluded, thrown away and discriminated against ... situations of suffering that often are in the dark, or have light shining for a moment only to return to the darkness of indifference."

-- Pope Francis

real chili 83

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Re: College Endowments
« Reply #30 on: January 06, 2019, 09:33:15 AM »
ND sucks.

dgies9156

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Re: College Endowments
« Reply #31 on: January 06, 2019, 09:46:55 AM »
Quote
I have said it here before:  getting  an MBA from anything less than the top 20 program is a waste of time . An MBA should be a differentiating credential. An MBA from Saint Norbert’s has little more value than one from the University of Phoenix.

Instead,  get a masters in a discipline which bolsters ine’s credentials as a subject matter expert in a particular field (ie  Biology, chemistry, physics, etc. )

An MBA from a UW Whitewater, for instance, Is unlikely to open the big career doors.  An MBA from a Michigan or a Stanford is a very different story .

Brother David, I totally disagree. I have an undergrad from Marquette in Journalism and an MBA from Loyola Chicago (aka The University of Sister Jean). My Loyola MBA made an incredible difference. Loyola is very good but not Top 20. Without the MBA laid atop my skills and network, No way I’d be where I am.

Perhaps where we agree is than an MBA from a run of the mill school is not going to change someone’s fortunes who has no experience or no network. If you are doing an MBA only for a credential, maybe we are more in agreement than I’d admit.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2019, 09:49:20 AM by dgies9156 »

Cheeks

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Re: College Endowments
« Reply #32 on: January 06, 2019, 10:34:04 AM »
Actually, what Crash said was: "getting  an MBA from anything less than the top 20 program is a waste of time"

Based on personal experience, not just with my daughter but with CEOs and other "important folks" that I know, I happen to disagree strongly that an MBA from the 21st-best or 100th-best program is automatically a "waste of time."

If he had made an argument similar to yours -- that my daughter might have gotten better opportunities with an MBA from Wharton -- I wouldn't disagree with that. But that's not what Crash said. He said a degree from any non-Wharton-ish institution is a "waste of time."

He's obviously wrong, as every CEO of every major corporation, every high-level politician, every university president, etc, did not come from a top-20 MBA program. The programs they went through obviously were not "a waste of time."

I like Crash, we agree on much and we have had many friendly conversations, and I probably should have said all I had to say in a PM to him. But when you come out with an easily disproven generalization worded as strongly as his comment was, you have to expect some blowback.

Have to agree with this....every bit.  Not a waste of time, a Wharton MBA likely more valuable, but that wasn’t what was said which is why people reacted.
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Babybluejeans

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Re: College Endowments
« Reply #33 on: January 06, 2019, 12:50:07 PM »
I have no idea about the entertainment industry but last I checked Barbara Streisand, Robert DeNiro, Mark Ruffalo, et al last walked across the stage as high school students (which might explain their insipid pronouncements on actual current events...)

Good point. Your pronouncements on current events, by contrast, have been dead on.

(Now that North Korea’s no longer a threat, mullahs up next, eh?)

JWags85

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Re: College Endowments
« Reply #34 on: January 06, 2019, 02:07:01 PM »
Actually, what Crash said was: "getting  an MBA from anything less than the top 20 program is a waste of time"

Based on personal experience, not just with my daughter but with CEOs and other "important folks" that I know, I happen to disagree strongly that an MBA from the 21st-best or 100th-best program is automatically a "waste of time."

He may have exaggerated in his boundaries but his greater point has merit. For example, his background is in Fortune 100 management. I know from experience at one of those companies that grass from the top 10-15 MBA programs were treated very different than lesser MBAs, even when holding the same roles and responsibilities. If your aspiration isn’t big company management, then it might not be as necessary.

However, I do agree that many MBAs are lacking in value. Getting an MBA to check a box is a concerning phenomenon and part of the cause of so much tuition inflation. My old roommate, who is a very smart guy, is currently getting a part-time MBA from St Francis. I originally assumed the small D-1 basketball school out east, which seemed odd as he lives in Chicago, but fair enough. But no, University of St Francis in Joliet. I can’t see him extracting value from that, and it was largely motivated by a colleague (not manager) at the Big 4 firm he works at telling him an MBA is “something he should do”.  MBAs should provide extra skill sets and growth opportunities, a professional network, and exit opportunities. It should not be just another certificate, which is what many are starting to feel like

rocket surgeon

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Re: College Endowments
« Reply #35 on: January 06, 2019, 02:19:49 PM »
Actually, what Crash said was: "getting  an MBA from anything less than the top 20 program is a waste of time"

Based on personal experience, not just with my daughter but with CEOs and other "important folks" that I know, I happen to disagree strongly that an MBA from the 21st-best or 100th-best program is automatically a "waste of time."

If he had made an argument similar to yours -- that my daughter might have gotten better opportunities with an MBA from Wharton -- I wouldn't disagree with that. But that's not what Crash said. He said a degree from any non-Wharton-ish institution is a "waste of time."

He's obviously wrong, as every CEO of every major corporation, every high-level politician, every university president, etc, did not come from a top-20 MBA program. The programs they went through obviously were not "a waste of time."

I like Crash, we agree on much and we have had many friendly conversations, and I probably should have said all I had to say in a PM to him. But when you come out with an easily disproven generalization worded as strongly as his comment was, you have to expect some blowback.


so much for me trying to keep you from cutting yourself again

theBabyDavid

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Re: College Endowments
« Reply #36 on: January 06, 2019, 03:59:17 PM »
Let me put it this way - the skills I learned in running an enterprise were not necessarily from the MBA classroom but, rather, in the day in/day out immersion in the cultures of two exceptionally well run organizations. The classroom exercise provided perspective on how to frame problems then make effective decisions for the ultimate test of working in a company.

I would contrast that with what is needed to perform as an engineer. The classroom material was crucial for mastering the challenges of the lab, the production floor, and the field.

An engineering degree is essential; the business degree is far less relevant to long-term success. It is far more certain that a degreed engineer will find success than the non-engineering degreed individual. A business degree isn't particularly essential for success in the business world.

 
"I don't care what Chick says, my mom's a babe" 

theBabyDavid

theBabyDavid

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Re: College Endowments
« Reply #37 on: January 06, 2019, 04:21:19 PM »
Brother David, I totally disagree. I have an undergrad from Marquette in Journalism and an MBA from Loyola Chicago (aka The University of Sister Jean). My Loyola MBA made an incredible difference. Loyola is very good but not Top 20. Without the MBA laid atop my skills and network, No way I’d be where I am.

Perhaps where we agree is than an MBA from a run of the mill school is not going to change someone’s fortunes who has no experience or no network. If you are doing an MBA only for a credential, maybe we are more in agreement than I’d admit.

Nashville,

Let me first say that getting an MBA isn't a waste of time. People going at night or on-line to get a credential seems to be ticket punching. I question the motive or at the very least the effectiveness of their exercise.

On-line or night classes do not offer the impact of team-based learning which is the norm at top MBA programs. And that network pays dividends in spades over time. There is no way on-line learning or part-time platforms can replicate that dynamic.

If people are looking to expand their knowledge base and add tools to the personal portfolio I would argue that getting an skills-based advanced degree is far more useful. Getting a masters in biology, chemistry, finance, statistics, etc... is far more effective for improving one's skills and isn't as dependent on brand or marquee as the more comprehensive MBA program.

MBAs from the top programs provide access to leading corpporations and financial institutions. If that isn't important to an individual then don't bother trying to get in. But I would strongly encourage those who go after an MBA to ask themselves if an advanced technical skills degree would not be more effective for facilitating career performance.

Frankly, not everyone is cut out for working as an I banker nor do they want to work in a large multi-national. And even if they do go the large corporation route, not everyone will climb the ladder beyond mid management. One does not need a Top 20 MBA but having one most certainly increases the likelihood of career advancement.
"I don't care what Chick says, my mom's a babe" 

theBabyDavid

theBabyDavid

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Re: College Endowments
« Reply #38 on: January 06, 2019, 04:26:09 PM »
Good point. Your pronouncements on current events, by contrast, have been dead on.

(Now that North Korea’s no longer a threat, mullahs up next, eh?)


Any more insights on what the 4th RTBn is all about? I mean, I know the closest you got to Ranger training was standing outside the gate at Benning but you speak out as if you actually know what the f#ck it's about.

Better yet, what are your thoughts on the tactical doctrine which characterizes Ranger-TACP operations in the SWA AOR? After all, you did deploy, right?
"I don't care what Chick says, my mom's a babe" 

theBabyDavid

MU82

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Re: College Endowments
« Reply #39 on: January 06, 2019, 04:55:26 PM »
One does not need a Top 20 MBA but having one most certainly increases the likelihood of career advancement.

This I can (and do) agree with, my friend.
"We need journalists who are on the side of victims, on the side of those who are persecuted, excluded, thrown away and discriminated against ... situations of suffering that often are in the dark, or have light shining for a moment only to return to the darkness of indifference."

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Herman Cain

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Re: College Endowments
« Reply #40 on: January 06, 2019, 05:03:49 PM »
I know several senior execs at MSFT, Amazon, and Starbucks who never set foot on a college campus, much less were matriculated from one.

Different industries have unique requirements which establish competence for operational staff.

1's and 0's tech is characterized by coding academy grads more than degree holders from legitimate traditional 4-year colleges. The power generation world requires advanced engineering degrees (unless one is on the SCADA side.)

I have no idea about the entertainment industry but last I checked Barbara Streisand, Robert DeNiro, Mark Ruffalo, et al last walked across the stage as high school students (which might explain their insipid pronouncements on actual current events...)
I was having lunch on the upper east side of New York in the middle 80s .  Barbara Streisand and her son, were in the booth next to me. They were trying to calculate the tip for several minutes and eventually they reached over to me and asked for help. Not much going on upstairs.
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TSmith34

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Re: College Endowments
« Reply #41 on: January 06, 2019, 06:32:46 PM »
Yeah, but how was their body language?
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Babybluejeans

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Re: College Endowments
« Reply #42 on: January 06, 2019, 06:42:09 PM »

Any more insights on what the 4th RTBn is all about? I mean, I know the closest you got to Ranger training was standing outside the gate at Benning but you speak out as if you actually know what the f#ck it's about.

Better yet, what are your thoughts on the tactical doctrine which characterizes Ranger-TACP operations in the SWA AOR? After all, you did deploy, right?

Testy! There’s little shame in simply admitting you got duped. Lots of good, salt of the earth folk did too.

MU82

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Re: College Endowments
« Reply #43 on: January 06, 2019, 09:01:25 PM »

so much for me trying to keep you from cutting yourself again

Whether teal or not, I have no idea what this means.
"We need journalists who are on the side of victims, on the side of those who are persecuted, excluded, thrown away and discriminated against ... situations of suffering that often are in the dark, or have light shining for a moment only to return to the darkness of indifference."

-- Pope Francis

Disco Hippie

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Re: College Endowments
« Reply #44 on: January 06, 2019, 09:34:53 PM »
I was not aware of this. It is actually breathtaking when you think about it.

In the case of MU, it does need to keep up with the Joneses (BC, Holy Cross, SLU, Fordham, GU) if it wishes to remain in the top tier of Jesuit colleges. Presently, these peer institutions have significantly larger endopwments. Factor in Marquette;'s size and the disparity becomes even greater.

It's true.  With the exception of ND and BC, Catholic universities are by and large much poorer than their non catholic peers.  Georgetown's endowment only crossed the billion threshold in the last 5 years I believe, and a strong case can be made that the Marquette endowment ($668M) is in a stronger position than Fordham ($739M) on a per capita basis given Fordham's slightly larger size and location smack dab in the middle of the philanthropy capital of the U.S. if not the world!   Villanova's endowment is less than ours and Fordham's despite it's higher ranking and prestige compared to both.  Does anyone on here who works in higher education fundraising know to what degree having a medical school impacts endowment?  Neither Fordham, Villanova or us have one, but LUC and SLU do.  Probably not a coincidence that LUC ($750M) and SLU ($1.1B) have larger endowments than Nova, Fordam and us but curious what others think.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2019, 09:42:11 PM by Disco Hippie »

Disco Hippie

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Re: College Endowments
« Reply #45 on: January 06, 2019, 09:58:53 PM »
I have said it here before:  getting  an MBA from anything less than the top 20 program is a waste of time . An MBA should be a differentiating credential. An MBA from Saint Norbert’s has little more value than one from the University of Phoenix.

Instead,  get a masters in a discipline which bolsters ine’s credentials as a subject matter expert in a particular field (ie  Biology, chemistry, physics, etc. )

An MBA from a UW Whitewater, for instance, Is unlikely to open the big career doors.  An MBA from a Michigan or a Stanford is a very different story .

If you're talking about leaving a steady job for two years to go back to school for a full time MBA program, I not only agree, but would say you're being extremely generous when you say it's worth it only for a top 20 program.  I would argue it's only worth it for top 10, maybe top 12-15 if you're being extremely generous, but I don't even think it's worth it at the 12-15 raking range.

That said, I completely disagree that getting a part time MBA from any local university is a waste of time and effort, especially if your employer is willing to pick up some of the tab.  There is an intrinsic value to the education that can only help and I've even read articles on Poets and Quants.com of all places, which only caters to students applying to the most elite B schools, that says research indicates that MBA's can be tremendously helpful in one's career, regardless of the institution granting it.   Not everyone wants to go into Investment Banking or work at McKinsey and it's absoultely true that no one that doesn't hold a blue chip credential could even get an interview, much less a full time job at a place like that, but most people don't work at those firms or aspire to a high finance job in New York, London, Hong Kong or Singapore and their ilk.  From everything I've read, MU's part time MBA program is thriving.  Again  I would never encourage anyone to quit their job and go to MU for a Full Time MBA, that would be a waste of time in my view, and you're not going to impress anyone at Goldman Sachs but if you're a local professional in the greater MKE area or Chicago, and just want to increase your chances of further advancement where you are, I have no doubt that a Marquette MBA will pay dividends down road.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2019, 10:15:29 PM by Disco Hippie »

Heisenberg v2.0

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Re: College Endowments
« Reply #46 on: January 06, 2019, 10:36:35 PM »
If you're talking about leaving a steady job for two years to go back to school for a full time MBA program, I not only agree, but would say you're being extremely generous when you say it's worth it only for a top 20 program.  I would argue it's only worth it for top 10, maybe top 12-15 if you're being extremely generous, but I don't even think it's worth it at the 12-15 raking range.

That said, I completely disagree that getting a part time MBA from any local university is a waste of time and effort, especially if your employer is willing to pick up some of the tab.  There is an intrinsic value to the education that can only help and I've even read articles on Poets and Quants.com of all places, which only caters to students applying to the most elite B schools, that says research indicates that MBA's can be tremendously helpful in one's career, regardless of the institution granting it.   Not everyone wants to go into Investment Banking or work at McKinsey and it's absoultely true that no one that doesn't hold a blue chip credential could even get an interview, much less a full time job at a place like that, but most people don't work at those firms or aspire to a high finance job in New York, London, Hong Kong or Singapore and their ilk.  From everything I've read, MU's part time MBA program is thriving.  Again  I would never encourage anyone to quit their job and go to MU for a Full Time MBA, that would be a waste of time in my view, and you're not going to impress anyone at Goldman Sachs but if you're a local professional in the greater MKE area or Chicago, and just want to increase your chances of further advancement where you are, I have no doubt that a Marquette MBA will pay dividends down road.

If you saw the WSJ story on page 1, Iowa and Wake Forest closed their MBA programs.  Bucky thought about it and has not (yet?)

It is not just get an MBA from a top 20 school or don't bother, some are even questioning the value of any MBA at all.

Data science degrees have supplanted MBAs and the current "must have" degrees. 

Employers are more and more balking at paying for a 20 course general MBA.  They will pay for a 8 to 10 concentration in finance, marketing, operations, etc.  So an MBA is turning into a very focused high level vocational training, more than it has ever been.

Oh, and more and more these programs are online.  Can get the degree with ever setting foot on the campus.

rocket surgeon

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Re: College Endowments
« Reply #47 on: January 07, 2019, 05:50:40 AM »
Whether teal or not, I have no idea what this means.

the teal implies that my statement was meant to be light hearted.  the statement itself is an assumption that you deal with issues by "self-harming" yourself, especially when dealing with negativity or pressure to perform. 

Cheeks

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Re: College Endowments
« Reply #48 on: January 07, 2019, 09:59:06 AM »
I know several senior execs at MSFT, Amazon, and Starbucks who never set foot on a college campus, much less were matriculated from one.

Different industries have unique requirements which establish competence for operational staff.

1's and 0's tech is characterized by coding academy grads more than degree holders from legitimate traditional 4-year colleges. The power generation world requires advanced engineering degrees (unless one is on the SCADA side.)

I have no idea about the entertainment industry but last I checked Barbara Streisand, Robert DeNiro, Mark Ruffalo, et al last walked across the stage as high school students (which might explain their insipid pronouncements on actual current events...)

I would agree with this, different requirements for different orgs.

On the entertainment industry, about $1.8 Trillion market value last year, expected to hit $2 Trillion by next year.


"The tournament is a crapshoot. It shouldn't be everything. It's such a shallow thing to pin everything on."
Gonzaga Head Coach Mark Few

MU82

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Re: College Endowments
« Reply #49 on: January 07, 2019, 10:22:25 AM »
the teal implies that my statement was meant to be light hearted.  the statement itself is an assumption that you deal with issues by "self-harming" yourself, especially when dealing with negativity or pressure to perform.

Oh. Your inaccurate silliness is duly noted.
"We need journalists who are on the side of victims, on the side of those who are persecuted, excluded, thrown away and discriminated against ... situations of suffering that often are in the dark, or have light shining for a moment only to return to the darkness of indifference."

-- Pope Francis