Greg Elliott to RedShirt

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

I guess the question are Wojo's expectations the same as yours?

First you said "we", as in Scoop. Now you are shifting the goalposts to "Wojo's expectations."

I can't speak for Wojo, so I'll only speak for myself.

The turnovers are crazy bad.  But everything else is in line with what I expected.   Reduce the TOs to a reasonable level and he is a solid role player.

I'm curious what other Scoopers were expecting.  I  suspect the most disappointed people set their expectations too high. 

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

JoeC has been awful. He's a net-negative player, weighted down by a 37% turnover rate (!!!) which is worse in transition (where it's at 60%). That is deadly. 

how bad? Torvik tracks stats for 2208 qualifying players -- 2,193 players are better at protecting the ball than Chartouny. He has the 2nd worst turnover rate of any player in a major conference.

He's deadly.

Yes, turnovers have been outrageous.  A fatal flaw.  Get that under control and all will be well.

[BCHoopster]

Yes, turnovers have been outrageous.  A fatal flaw.  Get that under control and all will be well.

Now that is bad, hard to believe that the coaching staff did not see this on film or he has regressed that badly in one year.  They even told him to shoot the ball yesterday, but his turnovers were grade school type plays.

[The Sultan]

Now that is bad, hard to believe that the coaching staff did not see this on film or he has regressed that badly in one year.  They even told him to shoot the ball yesterday, but his turnovers were grade school type plays.

His turnover rate was 15.9% last year.  It is 37.9% this year.  I hope this is him pressing too hard and trying to do too much at a new school and not that he can't step up competition wise.  But if you look at his bad turnover games, they aren't just against major schools.  He looked good against Louisville and Wisconsin (in limited minutes) but bad against Charleston Southern and again last night.

I think he has been disappointing, but I can still see a path for him to recover and a role for him in the line up. 

[BCHoopster]

His turnover rate was 15.9% last year.  It is 37.9% this year.  I hope this is him pressing too hard and trying to do too much at a new school and not that he can't step up competition wise.  But if you look at his bad turnover games, they aren't just against major schools.  He looked good against Louisville and Wisconsin (in limited minutes) but bad against Charleston Southern and again last night.

I think he has been disappointing, but I can still see a path for him to recover and a role for him in the line up.

I question his basketball IQ.  I can see an improvement, can not get worse in my mind.  Last night was ridiculous.

[StillWarriors]

The prospect of injury to one of our current guards without GE coming back is a concern, but we do have the benefit of Sam and Joey having the ability to help bring the ball up against pressure. I'm not suggesting they are going to blow by anybody, but they can certainly be relief valves against pressure, have good vision with their height and have ball handling skills. It would require some adjustments, but we do have some tools that could help in the event of an injury. Hopefully, that doesn't occur and Chartouny shores up his game so it is a non-issue.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

The prospect of injury to one of our current guards without GE coming back is a concern...

Why are so many people worried about this?  He can play if there is an injury...and GE is not going to get a ton of time in the current rotation anyway (unless there is an injury).  Seems like a low risk-high reward decision for the kid...minimal downside to kid & MU if disaster strikes and multiple other options as you reference. 

[NYWarrior]

But if you look at his bad turnover games, they aren't just against major schools.  He looked good against Louisville and Wisconsin (in limited minutes) but bad against Charleston Southern and again last night.

His TO rate is 38% vs top 100 teams; 30% vs top 50 teams. Both are miserable.

[MU82]

Not the least bit concerned about our depth, or quality thereof.

We have enough good to very good players to win the Big East and advance in the NCAAs.

Also not especially worried about Chartouny. I think he ultimately will prove to be a solid contributor.

We're 9-2, playing well, ranked in the top-20. We have several good wins, no bad losses, two of the BEast's very best players, one of the league's best freshmen. We're playing the improved defense everybody clamored for, and we rebound very well. Markus and Sam seem to have found their shooting eye again. And our coaching staff is doing a fine job.

As Al would say: Seashells and balloons, baby! And as AR would say: R-E-L-A-X!

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Like to see them get a 6'5" slasher.

See McEwen, Koby. He's only 6'4" but he was brought in for his ability to get to the hole

[MU82]

he was brought in for his ability to get to the hole

Hoo boy ... in before the silliness.

[SaveOD238]

That would be an interesting conundrum.   I remember Cadougan did it with his achilles but then didn't play that many minutes.   If, at the end of January for example, there was an injury to Markus or Chartouny, would/should Greg lift the red shirt?

Not to dig up old dirt, but the decision to un-redshirt Cadougan had repercussions that are still felt today.  Since JC played his freshman season, he then became ineligible for a fifth year.  His fifth year would have been Buzz' last year when we tanked, in large part because we had limited guard play.  Our starting guards were Derrick Wilson and Todd Mayo.  They could have been Cadougan and Vander Blue.  If Cadougan and/or Blue stay, that season goes much better and maybe Buzz doesn't leave.

So what I'm saying is...the coaches should look three years into the future before they decide to pull Greg's redshirt.

[Jay Bee]

"Redshirt" isn't a thing, it's just a term for someone who doesn't play a single second. If Markus or JC went down in the next couple of weeks (or Monty's), Greg could play.

[MuMark]

"Redshirt" isn't a thing, it's just a term for someone who doesn't play a single second."

Yes so it actually is a thing....the thing is that a decision has been made to not play a player this season......yes it can be changed at anytime....see Jacob Epperson.......but most of the time it isn't.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

So what I'm saying is...the coaches should look three years into the future before they decide to pull Greg's redshirt.

Most coaches don't even know if they will be employed in the same capacity or by the same institution 3 years in the future.  I think you always make the best decision for the kid/univ for today and let the rest work it self out. 

[mu03eng]

Not to dig up old dirt, but the decision to un-redshirt Cadougan had repercussions that are still felt today.  Since JC played his freshman season, he then became ineligible for a fifth year.  His fifth year would have been Buzz' last year when we tanked, in large part because we had limited guard play.  Our starting guards were Derrick Wilson and Todd Mayo.  They could have been Cadougan and Vander Blue.  If Cadougan and/or Blue stay, that season goes much better and maybe Buzz doesn't leave.

So what I'm saying is...the coaches should look three years into the future before they decide to pull Greg's redshirt.

Buzz was gone either way. Even if that last season was great Buzz wasn't staying for all numbers of reasons.....he'd essentially stopped recruiting for MU the season before

[We R Final Four]

First you said "we", as in Scoop. Now you are shifting the goalposts to "Wojo's expectations."

I can't speak for Wojo, so I'll only speak for myself.

The turnovers are crazy bad.  But everything else is in line with what I expected.   Reduce the TOs to a reasonable level and he is a solid role player.

I'm curious what other Scoopers were expecting.  I  suspect the most disappointed people set their expectations too high.

YOU gave your expectations. YOU gave your thoughts on JC. My question was is your satisfaction and fulfillment of JCs expectations the same as Wojo's?, Since his is the only one that matters.
I don't think it is, and I Also think you in the minority in your satisfaction of JC.

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

YOU gave your expectations. YOU gave your thoughts on JC. My question was is your satisfaction and fulfillment of JCs expectations the same as Wojo's?, Since his is the only one that matters.
I don't think it is, and I Also think you in the minority in your satisfaction of JC.

I'll do a breakout Chartouny thread later.  Let's keep this thread on target.

[Loose Cannon]

.

The turnovers are crazy bad.  But everything else is in line with what I expected.   Reduce the TOs to a reasonable level and he is a solid role player.

yep, I agree with you.  I believe it's taken him much longer to fit in, but it will happen as the Big East games begin.  Seem grad transfers have a varying time in adjusting.  Just placing too much pressure on themselves.  Just a matter of time, looks like Morrow in starting to settle in and he's been here a little longer than Joe C.  I'm happy he's here.

[mu03eng]

I'll do a breakout Chartouny thread later.  Let's keep this thread on target.

[Jay Bee]

"Redshirt" isn't a thing, it's just a term for someone who doesn't play a single second."

Yes so it actually is a thing....the thing is that a decision has been made to not play a player this season......yes it can be changed at anytime....see Jacob Epperson.......but most of the time it isn't.

Nope.

[Jockey]

Now that is bad, hard to believe that the coaching staff did not see this on film or he has regressed that badly in one year.  They even told him to shoot the ball yesterday, but his turnovers were grade school type plays.

What bugs me is that after getting a steal for a breakaway, he slows down at about the FT line and then either gets the shot blocked or commits a turnover.

[CTWarrior]

Not to dig up old dirt, but the decision to un-redshirt Cadougan had repercussions that are still felt today.  Since JC played his freshman season, he then became ineligible for a fifth year.  His fifth year would have been Buzz' last year when we tanked, in large part because we had limited guard play.  Our starting guards were Derrick Wilson and Todd Mayo.  They could have been Cadougan and Vander Blue.  If Cadougan and/or Blue stay, that season goes much better and maybe Buzz doesn't leave.

So what I'm saying is...the coaches should look three years into the future before they decide to pull Greg's redshirt.

I think this team could use Greg Elliott a lot more than that team needed Junior, too.  I did not like Junior playing at the end of his freshman season.  It felt like we were trading a year of him at his highest level for a few minutes of PT at his lowest.  But that is purely selfish thinking on my part.  You have to think first and foremost what the player wants to do, I think.  Maybe Junior wouldn't have hung around after 4 years anyway.  Maybe he would have transferred somewhere else (was the grad transfer available then?)  If Greg is fully on board with this, then good for him and good for us.  Hope he just gets fully healed and is ready to go gangbusters next year.

[jsglow]

Wojo gave Joseph miles of rope last night. Several of his TOs were unacceptable. I appreciate that Wojo remains positive and optimistic in public. My hope is that he threatened to put him on the ND bus back to Dakota. We really need him to get his head out of his arse.

[brewcity77]

Nope.

So Sacar is not a redshirt junior?