What is the shelf life on a play?

[Its DJOver]

Always good to beat Bucky, and even better to have the defensive showing (outside of Happ) that we did.  However, there were a lot of possessions on offensive where I had no clue what we were doing, and it wasn't just because of excessive hero ball by Markus (although that did still happen).  Sacars turnover on our first possession of the second half is the perfect example.  I found this surprising, because when we run set plays we seem to get pretty good looks. 

In previous years, Wojo has had some pretty good set plays that would more often than not result in a good look for a designed player.  Carlino often had the play where he would cut to the top of the arc between two screeners, who would then "close the elevator doors" to get him a good look (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hqjz6Yr77A)(play that starts around 3:25 is a variation of this, and the one three that Trice got Sat. was on a similar set play).  The play that was run for JJJ against LSU in Brooklyn (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GWywM_T6ZA) (4:45), worked and was even run for Sacar on occasion last year.  We also had the play where Rowsey would run off the double screen for a three, and the the variation of it, where after setting the second screen, Sam would re-use Matt's screen to get a look from the other side.  Even the little in-bounds lob play that was set for JJJ, and later Sacar. 

We don't seem to run any of these anymore.  Obviously other teams start scouting them and plan ways to stop them, but we don't even seem to have them in the playbook.  Now some plays are specifically designed for certain players.  The only one to use the lob play for a while was JJJ, and the Rowsey Sam double screen play requires two good outside shooters, but it seems like we certainly have the personnel to recreate some of these.  So how long is the shelf life on a specific play, and how long after a play is out of our regular game plan until we can re-introduce it (would love Sam getting the Carlino top of they key shots)?

[BM1090]

Always good to beat Bucky, and even better to have the defensive showing (outside of Happ) that we did.  However, there were a lot of possessions on offensive where I had no clue what we were doing, and it wasn't just because of excessive hero ball by Markus (although that did still happen).  Sacars turnover on our first possession of the second half is the perfect example.  I found this surprising, because when we run set plays we seem to get pretty good looks. 

In previous years, Wojo has had some pretty good set plays that would more often than not result in a good look for a designed player.  Carlino often had the play where he would cut to the top of the arc between two screeners, who would then "close the elevator doors" to get him a good look (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hqjz6Yr77A)(play that starts around 3:25 is a variation of this, and the one three that Trice got Sat. was on a similar set play).  The play that was run for JJJ against LSU in Brooklyn (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GWywM_T6ZA) (4:45), worked and was even run for Sacar on occasion last year.  We also had the play where Rowsey would run off the double screen for a three, and the the variation of it, where after setting the second screen, Sam would re-use Matt's screen to get a look from the other side.  Even the little in-bounds lob play that was set for JJJ, and later Sacar. 

We don't seem to run any of these anymore.  Obviously other teams start scouting them and plan ways to stop them, but we don't even seem to have them in the playbook.  Now some plays are specifically designed for certain players.  The only one to use the lob play for a while was JJJ, and the Rowsey Sam double screen play requires two good outside shooters, but it seems like we certainly have the personnel to recreate some of these.  So how long is the shelf life on a specific play, and how long after a play is out of our regular game plan until we can re-introduce it (would love Sam getting the Carlino top of they key shots)?

We run the one with JJ about once per game. It's usually Sacar on a DHO going right from the left wing with the big trying to screen everyone out of the paint.

[forgetful]

We also had the play where Rowsey would run off the double screen for a three, and the the variation of it, where after setting the second screen, Sam would re-use Matt's screen to get a look from the other side. 

We run this a lot. Including as a set play out of a key timeout against UW. People on the board were criticizing Wojo for not designing a good play when this was used, because UW defended it.

[Its DJOver]

We run this a lot. Including as a set play out of a key timeout against UW. People on the board were criticizing Wojo for not designing a good play when this was used, because UW defended it.

I'll have to re-watch because I do not remember this at all.  Do you remember when it was?

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

We run this a lot. Including as a set play out of a key timeout against UW. People on the board were criticizing Wojo for not designing a good play when this was used, because UW defended it.

The Davison nut punch also happened on this set play.

[forgetful]

I'll have to re-watch because I do not remember this at all.  Do you remember when it was?

The time I remember was after the timeout with 1:14 left.  Double screen to Howard (Joey set a bad screen; maybe intentionally as the play was drawn up for Sam), then Joey turns and screens Sam's man, Morrow sets the second screen.  Hauser gets the ball, but the defender closed too fast. 

Ball got back into Howard's hands, Morrow set a fake screen and dive (that the defense didn't fall for) and Howard was forced to jack up a difficult 3. 

The board criticized that we got a crap shot out of the Timeout and didn't draw up a play. Wojo did, it just was defended well.

[Its DJOver]

The Davison nut punch also happened on this set play.

It's similar but I don't think it's the same play, it just happens to have Markus running off a double screen.  I could be wrong, but I remember the Rowsey play involving the double screen on either side of the paint with Sam always setting the second  so he could run the reverse.  The sack tap had both screens on the same side of the paint, with Joey setting the second.  There is also a difference in where Markus/Rowsey catch the ball.  Roswey would always catch the ball right behind the line and at least throw up a pump fake.  Markus was slowing up to catch the ball near the "Al", and if Davison hadn't fouled Joey, I fully expect that possession to end with a high pick from Ed, and Markus driving, trying to get fouled.  You can run the same play with different intents,  there was no way that Markus was running around those screens with the idea of a catch and shoot three.  He was just killing some time so he could have another possession of hero ball.

[Its DJOver]

The time I remember was after the timeout with 1:14 left.  Double screen to Howard (Joey set a bad screen; maybe intentionally as the play was drawn up for Sam), then Joey turns and screens Sam's man, Morrow sets the second screen.  Hauser gets the ball, but the defender closed too fast. 

Ball got back into Howard's hands, Morrow set a fake screen and dive (that the defense didn't fall for) and Howard was forced to jack up a difficult 3. 

The board criticized that we got a crap shot out of the Timeout and didn't draw up a play. Wojo did, it just was defended well.

Found it and you were right that it's what we ran, but similar to the scenario described above, I don't think it was called for Sam to take that shot.  Neither player ran off their screen very hard, with Markus not even really selling that the pass might come to him, and that possession ended how I think the sack tap one would have.  High pick from Ed, missed hero three from Markus.

[StillWarriors]

Found it and you were right that it's what we ran, but similar to the scenario described above, I don't think it was called for Sam to take that shot.  Neither player ran off their screen very hard, with Markus not even really selling that the pass might come to him, and that possession ended how I think the sack tap one would have.  High pick from Ed, missed hero three from Markus.

I also noticed we frequently do not set up the screens very well or run right off the picker's shoulder on the baseline screens, and suspect it is intentional at times. Not sure if that is always the case, but it is hard to believe they would just go through the motion on a such a crucial fundamental aspect of many plays.

[Its DJOver]

I also noticed we frequently do not set up the screens very well or run right off the picker's shoulder on the baseline screens, and suspect it is intentional at times. Not sure if that is always the case, but it is hard to believe they would just go through the motion on a such a crucial fundamental aspect of many plays.

The play right out of the TO with 1:14 left, Markus is very clearly jogging and even raises his arms showing the ref that he is avoiding contact.  The reason that play worked so well with AR and SH was that AR always sprinted like he had the fear of god in him.

This gets back to the original question though.  If the scouting report on this play is out, we need to ditch it and come up with something new.  The other question also applies; how long until we can recycle this double screen reverse play back into our repertoire.

[tower912]

The play right out of the TO with 1:14 left, Markus is very clearly jogging and even raises his arms showing the ref that he is avoiding contact.  The reason that play worked so well with AR and SH was that AR always sprinted like he had the fear of god in him.

This gets back to the original question though.  If the scouting report on this play is out, we need to ditch it and come up with something new.  The other question also applies; how long until we can recycle this double screen reverse play back into our repertoire.

Do you remember when Coach Crean claimed to have binder full of 3000 (iirc) plays but always ran the weave anyway?    I am sure there are variations within variations of those sets.   

[Its DJOver]

Do you remember when Coach Crean claimed to have binder full of 3000 (iirc) plays but always ran the weave anyway?    I am sure there are variations within variations of those sets.   

I certainly hope so, because while I like that Sam doesn't force anything, I would much rather have had him take the shot he had there than what Markus ended up getting.  Tie game, minute left, you call your best play.  I have no problem if our best play is a version of that, but the way it was executed was extremely poor in hindsight.

[tower912]

I certainly hope so, because while I like that Sam doesn't force anything, I would much rather have had him take the shot he had there than what Markus ended up getting.  Tie game, minute left, you call your best play.  I have no problem if our best play is a version of that, but the way it was executed was extremely poor in hindsight.

Markus isn't a pure PG yet and it is entirely possible, as the Wisconsin defense flowed to him, that he could not see Sam.    But, things to build on and learn from.