Penn St. Defeats #13 team in Country

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

If only there was some proof Buzz was a good coach. Oh wait.  There is.

No one said otherwise.

The comparisons to other coaches are not meant to say that Wojo is the same as or even the same universe as other coaches. It is pointing out that even great coaches have games where their team doesn't play to their potential or even their average. Therefore, it is reasonable to expect that a less experienced coach will also be inconsistent at times. A bad performance in November does not mean the season is over.

[tower912]

Worry about MU.  Or at least play both sides and start your thread about how Indiana is getting their asses handed to them.  I couldn't care less about other teams.  I have expectations for this team and no other.

Of course Indiana got rolled.  They went on the road to one of the toughest places to play and their opponents and fans were jacked up for the game.   Nothing new. 

[Floorslapper]

No one said otherwise.

The comparisons to other coaches are not meant to say that Wojo is the same as or even the same universe as other coaches. It is pointing out that even great coaches have games where their team doesn't play to their potential or even their average. Therefore, it is reasonable to expect that a less experienced coach will also be inconsistent at times. A bad performance in November does not mean the season is over.

At what point does a coach become "experienced?"  15 years at the side of Coach K and 4+ years as a head coach doesn't qualify?

Pretty sure Buzz took 3 teams to NCAA in by his 4th Year as a Head Coach.

[GGGG]

At what point does a coach become "experienced?"  15 years at the side of Coach K and 4+ years as a head coach doesn't qualify?

Pretty sure Buzz took 3 teams to NCAA in by his 4th Year as a Head Coach.

He said "less experienced."  Wojo has less experience as a head coach then Buzz does.  He didn't say "inexperienced."

Stop looking for arguments.

[fjm]

At what point does a coach become "experienced?"  15 years at the side of Coach K and 4+ years as a head coach doesn't qualify?

Pretty sure Buzz took 3 teams to NCAA in by his 4th Year as a Head Coach.

Ners, why is it when we win a game we don't hear from you much about the game, only to defend buzz. As much as you call people who defend Wojo "fan boys" you only defend Buzz.

We won a game last night, you made 1 non Buzz related post (SOTG) since that game and 4 total posts (mostly about buzz).

I guess my question is, do you sincerely care if we win games? And if so why do you not atleast mention anything on the actual game? It appears you're only happy or able to post frequently when there is a loss to discuss.

[Lennys Tap]

Let's just stipulate that great (K, Jay Wright), really good (Buzz) and (at least so far) mediocre (Wojo) coaches all have bad losses and good wins. In that way they are essentially the same. Their overall success (or lack thereof) is what makes them different. Does Duke, Villanova or VTech occasionally looking bad make MU fans feel better when we frequently look that way? Sad.

[BM1090]

Let's just stipulate that great (K, Jay Wright), really good (Buzz) and (at least so far) mediocre (Wojo) coaches all have bad losses and good wins. In that way they are essentially the same. Their overall success (or lack thereof) is what makes them different. Does Duke, Villanova or VTech occasionally looking bad make MU fans feel better when we frequently look that way? Sad.

If that's truly how fans feel then I agree. Sad. But I think it's more that the other group is sad when MU wins because they can't come here to complain. We've reached a point where this board has a certain population who come here ONLY to discredit Wojo and Marquette. I'm not including you in that group.

[GGGG]

Let's just stipulate that great (K, Jay Wright), really good (Buzz) and (at least so far) mediocre (Wojo) coaches all have bad losses and good wins. In that way they are essentially the same.

I'm perfectly willing to stipulate this.  It would stop people from going into meltdown mode here.

Their overall success (or lack thereof) is what makes them different.

Yes.  It's a marathon, not a sprint.

Does Duke, Villanova or VTech occasionally looking bad make MU fans feel better when we frequently look that way? Sad.

I don't believe that was the intent of the OP.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Let's just stipulate that great (K, Jay Wright), really good (Buzz) and (at least so far) mediocre (Wojo) coaches all have bad losses and good wins.

Yep

Does Duke, Villanova or VTech occasionally looking bad make MU fans feel better when we frequently look that way? Sad.

Nope, not in the slightest. But it is does derail those who take a poor performance in November as definitive proof that the team is going to have a terrible season.

Each game is a data point. Putting too much emphasis any one of them will usually lead to misinformation.

[brewcity77]

Does Duke, Villanova or VTech occasionally looking bad make MU fans feel better when we frequently look that way? Sad.

That's just fan nature, even at elite programs. I've seen Kansas fans revel when Kentucky looks bad, UNC loves when Duke looks bad (and vice versa). Fans always pay attention to programs they have connections to, whether through conference, proximity, or coach. And over time, it fades. Once it was wondering how Kevin O'Neill was doing. Then looking at Crean at IU. Now it's Buzz.

If you think Xavier fans aren't keeping a side eye focused on Mack at Xavier, or Butler fans doing the same to Holtmann at Ohio State, I'm guessing you don't check other fanbases Twitter pretty much ever.

[BallBoy]

Yep

Nope, not in the slightest. But it is does derail those who take a poor performance in November as definitive proof that the team is going to have a terrible season.

Each game is a data point. Putting too much emphasis any one of them will usually lead to misinformation.

Agreed.  After MU beat UL, the naysayers stated how bad UL was.  UL just beat MSU so they can't be horrible. 

Leading up to PSU/VT, the naysayers stated how great Buzz was and how he was able to motivate his team.  They lost to a mediocre PSU team at home. 

Once we start collecting the data point as the season goes on, we can really see if Wojo has continued the tread of making his teams better.  One poster stated they expect MU to lose to KSU, Buffalo and Wisco but a better coach would win 1-2 of those.  We will see what happens.

In March, no one will hold KU or IU against us.

[Floorslapper]

Of course Indiana got rolled.  They went on the road to one of the toughest places to play and their opponents and fans were jacked up for the game.   Nothing new.

I look forward to the day MU's homecourt advantage results in us winning at home on a consistent basis.  We lost 6 games at home last year (including 3 critical conference games in a row) in Year 4.

Agreed.  After MU beat UL, the naysayers stated how bad UL was.  UL just beat MSU so they can't be horrible. 

Leading up to PSU/VT, the naysayers stated how great Buzz was and how he was able to motivate his team.  They lost to a mediocre PSU team at home. 

Once we start collecting the data point as the season goes on, we can really see if Wojo has continued the tread of making his teams better.  One poster stated they expect MU to lose to KSU, Buffalo and Wisco but a better coach would win 1-2 of those.  We will see what happens.

In March, no one will hold KU or IU against us.

What trend?

Yep

Nope, not in the slightest. But it is does derail those who take a poor performance in November as definitive proof that the team is going to have a terrible season.

Each game is a data point. Putting too much emphasis any one of them will usually lead to misinformation.

No.  It doesn't derail jack.  You guys continue to try to associate Wojo with proven great coaches.  He's yet to prove he is anything more than mediocre at best.  The early season disappointments haven't led to later season accomplishments in 3 of his 4 years.

[GGGG]

You guys continue to try to associate Wojo with proven great coaches. 

No one is doing that.

[Floorslapper]

Ners, why is it when we win a game we don't hear from you much about the game, only to defend buzz. As much as you call people who defend Wojo "fan boys" you only defend Buzz.

We won a game last night, you made 1 non Buzz related post (SOTG) since that game and 4 total posts (mostly about buzz).

I guess my question is, do you sincerely care if we win games? And if so why do you not atleast mention anything on the actual game? It appears you're only happy or able to post frequently when there is a loss to discuss.

I made 2 posts last night - Joe C for SOTG, and one about Buzz in the stupid thread that was started here about him losing at PSU.

I didn't see a whole lot to get too excited about last night (beyond Joe C - though still need to see it against high majors).  The one positive that I should have mentioned was:  At least we weren't trailing at the half or even 12 minute mark left in the game on our homecourt against a Sub 200 team.  That's progress from Presby.

I'll be right here along with the rest of you posting happily when we beat Top 25 teams, hell even Top 50 teams. 

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

No.  It doesn't derail jack.  You guys continue to try to associate Wojo with proven great coaches.  He's yet to prove he is anything more than mediocre at best.  The early season disappointments haven't led to later season accomplishments in 3 of his 4 years.

Did you read what I wrote? No one is associating Wojo with these coaches. It is NOT saying that Wojo is equal to or even in same universe as other coaches. It is simply pointing out that most teams, even ones with better coaches than Wojo, have inconsistent performances and sometimes they play a really bad game early in the season. Just because that happens, doesn't mean we should write off the rest of the season or declare that the team is terrible.

Just to make it explicitly clear that no one is associating Wojo with these coaches:

Izzo is a better coach than Wojo.
Buzz is a better coach than Wojo.
Wright is a better coach than Wojo.
Coach K is a better coach than Wojo.

[Floorslapper]

Did you read what I wrote? No one is associating Wojo with these coaches. It is NOT saying that Wojo is equal to or even in same universe as other coaches. It is simply pointing out that most teams, even ones with better coaches than Wojo, have inconsistent performances and sometimes they play a really bad game early in the season. Just because that happens, doesn't mean we should write off the rest of the season or declare that the team is terrible.

Just to make it explicitly clear that no one is associating Wojo with these coaches:

Izzo is a better coach than Wojo.
Buzz is a better coach than Wojo.
Wright is a better coach than Wojo.
Coach K is a better coach than Wojo.

Of course ALL teams play bad games.  When it happens 5 years in a row under the same coach and in 3 of the previous 4 it lead to Missed NIT's/NCAA's - AND that coach has never shown he can get it done - that's where the frustration sets in.  Furthermore, when the early season struggles of other teams, are teams with coaches how have gotten it done/have skins on the wall - it's a silly comparison to make.

[GGGG]

Of course ALL teams play bad games. When it happens 5 years in a row under the same coach and in 3 of the previous 4 it lead to Missed NIT's/NCAA's - AND that coach has never shown he can get it done - that's where the frustration sets in.  Furthermore, when the early season struggles of other teams, are teams with coaches how have gotten it done/have skins on the wall - it's a silly comparison to make.

Everybody know this.  But see the entire reason it was brought up wasn't to say "Hey Wojo is just like Buzz cause they both lost an early season game!!!" 

No, it was to say "Let's get Ners going again!!!"  And it worked!  Get it?  This wasn't about creating a debate.  It was all about baiting you.  And you bit!!!!

Not that there is that much sport involved any longer because you never met a topic you couldn't beat into the ground endlessly, but some people need to be entertained.  And you entertained them!!!!  You're a modern-day Liberace in that regard.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Of course ALL teams play bad games.  When it happens 5 years in a row under the same coach and in 3 of the previous 4 it lead to Missed NIT's/NCAA's - AND that coach has never shown he can get it done - that's where the frustration sets in.  Furthermore, when the early season struggles of other teams, are teams with coaches how have gotten it done/have skins on the wall - it's a silly comparison to make.

Again, you are having a different conversation. No one is talking about Wojo here. We are talking about the 18-19 Marquette basketball team. The argument being made is just because we looked bad against Indiana, doesn't mean we will look that bad every game this season.

You can be frustrated with Wojo AND not declare the season over after the third game. It is possible to do both.

[Floorslapper]

Again, you are having a different conversation. No one is talking about Wojo here. We are talking about the 18-19 Marquette basketball team. The argument being made is just because we looked bad against Indiana, doesn't mean we will look that bad every game this season.

You can be frustrated with Wojo AND not declare the season over after the third game. It is possible to do both.

Sure.  Feel free to quote where I said the season was over.  I think we stand a decent chance of getting an NCAA bid with the Big East being down.  I don't expect an NCAA win, much less a Sweet 16. 

[Spotcheck Billy]

Did you read what I wrote? No one is associating Wojo with these coaches. It is NOT saying that Wojo is equal to or even in same universe as other coaches. It is simply pointing out that most teams, even ones with better coaches than Wojo, have inconsistent performances and sometimes they play a really bad game early in the season. Just because that happens, doesn't mean we should write off the rest of the season or declare that the team is terrible.

Just to make it explicitly clear that no one is associating Wojo with these coaches:

Izzo is a better coach than Wojo.
Buzz is a better coach than Wojo.
Wright is a better coach than Wojo.
Coach K is a better coach than Wojo.

your list left off 1:
Ners is a better coach than Wojo

[wadesworld]

Everybody know this.  But see the entire reason it was brought up wasn't to say "Hey Wojo is just like Buzz cause they both lost an early season game!!!" 

No, it was to say "Let's get Ners going again!!!"  And it worked!  Get it?  This wasn't about creating a debate.  It was all about baiting you.  And you bit!!!!

Not that there is that much sport involved any longer because you never met a topic you couldn't beat into the ground endlessly, but some people need to be entertained.  And you entertained them!!!!  You're a modern-day Liberace in that regard.

Yup.  The entertainment after a cupcake at Scoop is Ners telling everyone how smart he is.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Sure.  Feel free to quote where I said the season was over.  I think we stand a decent chance of getting an NCAA bid with the Big East being down.  I don't expect an NCAA win, much less a Sweet 16.

I don't believe I ever said that you said that the season was over. There have been others though.