Morrow and Joe C.

[Nukem2]

Some subsequent poster will point out that Carlino, Lockette,Rhienhardt(sp) all took a while to get going and wound up making great contributions. True.
The IU transfer from St. Mary's didn't seem to have the problem our transfers do, why is that? Honest question....

JC’s early numbers are anemic compared to those guys.  In a quick check, Carlino had 32 points and 17 assists in his first 3 games.  JC has 4 FTs and 4 assists.  Lockett had 24 points and 14 rebounds in his first 3 (his issue was about turnovers early).  Did not look up Katin as he had that foot/leg injury that bothered him until he broke out against UW.

[goldeneagle91114]

Curious, what are our adjusted expectations for the season? To begin the year I was thinking 15 - 20 in the rankings,  top 3 finish in the Big East and some reserved excitement about potentially making it to the second weekend of the NCAA tourney.

Now...I think i will just be happy to make the tourney.

the worst part is for the last 4 years and i was able to convince myself that "better year's were ahead.
1. Wojo would install his system
2. Wojo would have "his guys"
3. Wojo's guys would become upperclassmen

All of the things above have happened....and the product is not good. now real sure where to go from here.

[Its DJOver]

Curious, what are our adjusted expectations for the season? To begin the year I was thinking 15 - 20 in the rankings,  top 3 finish in the Big East and some reserved excitement about potentially making it to the second weekend of the NCAA tourney.

Now...I think i will just be happy to make the tourney.

the worst part is for the last 4 years and i was able to convince myself that "better year's were ahead.
1. Wojo would install his system
2. Wojo would have "his guys"
3. Wojo's guys would become upperclassmen

All of the things above have happened....and the product is not good. now real sure where to go from here.

No change.  You don't adjust season expectations on a game by game basis.  Your initial expectations are about where mine were and currently are, other than the ranking, where I see us finishing just inside the top 25.

[Otule's Glass Eye]

We have 3, potentially 4 games against ranked teams as well as Wisconsin coming up in the next few weeks. Joe C and Ed better get going we need them. We’re basically a 3 man team right now. Wojo should play Ed and Joe C 30 minutes against Presbyterian to get them acclimated as much as possible.

[Jay Bee]

Curious, what are our adjusted expectations for the season? To begin the year I was thinking 15 - 20 in the rankings,  top 3 finish in the Big East and some reserved excitement about potentially making it to the second weekend of the NCAA tourney.

Now...I think i will just be happy to make the tourney.

the worst part is for the last 4 years and i was able to convince myself that "better year's were ahead.
1. Wojo would install his system
2. Wojo would have "his guys"
3. Wojo's guys would become upperclassmen

All of the things above have happened....and the product is not good. now real sure where to go from here.

No change; and I think your current expectations are whacked.

[Swan88]

Morrow averaged 9 and 7 on a Nebraska team that finished 12-19.  . . .  It’s too early to call Morrow a bust, but perhaps his sophomore numbers should be taken with a grain of salt.

Here is a Nebraska perspective on Morrow:
   1.  When Ed is healthy, he is a beast.  The problem is that his body (e.g., his feet) can’t tolerate the power his muscles can generate.  So, he only lasted a half-season, each of his first two years at Nebraska, before being mostly-sidelined by foot injuries.  Here’s guessing that injuries (probably to his feet) are his problem now.
   2.  Ed has always played the 5.  That was true throughout high school, and that was true at Nebraska.  All his stats at Nebraska came from the 5 position.  One reason he left Nebraska is that he wanted to play the 4 and was never going to get that opportunity at Nebraska.  The problem is that his ball-handling skills are not adequate for the 4 position.

[goldeneagle91114]

No change; and I think your current expectations are whacked.

What do you think of my pre-Indiana expectations?

[JamilJaeJamailJrJuan]

undersized for his position. Never said he wasnt good. but he didnt play 5 thst much at nebrasketball.

He primarily played the 5 at Nebraska and that is one of the main reasons he transferred. 

[skianth16]

the worst part is for the last 4 years and i was able to convince myself that "better year's were ahead.
1. Wojo would install his system
2. Wojo would have "his guys"
3. Wojo's guys would become upperclassmen

All of the things above have happened....and the product is not good. now real sure where to go from here.

There's got to be a clear common denominator here. If only we could figure out what the problem is...

[jesmu84]

What is it with some of our fanbase? Why do we write off players so quickly? Have we not learned anything from rowsey, katin, carlino, lockett?

Reading several threads here, we're already moving on from Joe, Morrow, Bailey.

Jeez.

[Mutaman]

undersized for his position. Never said he wasnt good. but he didnt play 5 thst much at nebrasketball.

"Morrow is no good"

Mr Sand Knit

[Mutaman]

Here is a Nebraska perspective on Morrow:
   1.  When Ed is healthy, he is a beast.  The problem is that his body (e.g., his feet) can’t tolerate the power his muscles can generate.  So, he only lasted a half-season, each of his first two years at Nebraska, before being mostly-sidelined by foot injuries.  Here’s guessing that injuries (probably to his feet) are his problem now.
   2.  Ed has always played the 5.  That was true throughout high school, and that was true at Nebraska.  All his stats at Nebraska came from the 5 position.  One reason he left Nebraska is that he wanted to play the 4 and was never going to get that opportunity at Nebraska.  The problem is that his ball-handling skills are not adequate for the 4 position.

Thanks. really good informative post.

[NorthernDancerColt]

Patience.   The alternative is to cancel the rest of the season.

So many on this board rip our student section for their perceived lack of loyalty and failure to show up through thick and thin. Now the good kids that make up this team, who laid one stinky egg, are torn apart...fodder for the genius armchair talent scouts and coaches... Question: If you were a student at MU who reads Scoop and all this sky-is-falling negativity... would you want to support this team? We sucked major azz..no shiite. We caught a buzzsaw on their home floor*. Happens....especially in November. As has been stated here..,an annual early-season stinker during the reign of the Hillbilly did little to diminish belief in our coach and program . Where were the Chicken Littles then?  I knowIknow...but now it's Year 5 whipped by Year 2, IU was down 3 players... yadda yadda.

 Yes, we looked unprepared in every sense. On Wojo, and I'm his biggest fan. He and his guys WILL have all of us eating crow in the near future. Count on that. And please shove this post in my face at the end of the year if we don't meet expectations. Our coaches and players are accountable, Scoop posters should be as well.

[skianth16]

Yes, we looked unprepared in every sense. On Wojo, and I'm his biggest fan. He and his guys WILL have all of us eating crow in the near future. Count on that. And please shove this post in my face at the end of the year if we don't meet expectations. Our coaches and players are accountable, Scoop posters should be as well.

Honest question - what has Wojo done to make you a fan of his?

In the Wojo era, we come out unprepared far too often, other teams adjust much better mid game while we continue with the same subpar gameplan more often than not, our defense has been one of the worst from a high major, and our offense feels very one dimensional. His teams come out flat too often for my liking, and they don't have the same fight and competitive edge we've seen from the MU teams we knew and loved. 

Now this year he seems to have a hard time knowing where all the pieces should fit, despite having a highly touted roster that he built. I just don't see what others seem to see in this guy.

As to your comments about him being a winner, I'm not so sure that he is. Hes been a part of winning programs, but he hasn't proven much on his own yet, at least not on the floor.

[vogue65]

Coach Krzyzewski, coach Wooden, coach Carril, coach Wojciechowski are similar, they are or were not coach Buzz.
The selection committee got exactly what they wanted, no drama, don't expect more from the team in the game than they are capable of, and good grades.
The team is definitely playing within themselves. 
When they tried to run with the big dogs they got embarrassed.
They will find their grove and it will be basketball by the numbers.

[MUCam]

So many on this board rip our student section for their perceived lack of loyalty and failure to show up through thick and thin. Now the good kids that make up this team, who laid one stinky egg, are torn apart...fodder for the genius armchair talent scouts and coaches... Question: If you were a student at MU who reads Scoop and all this sky-is-falling negativity... would you want to support this team? We sucked major azz..no shiite. We caught a buzzsaw on their home floor*. Happens....especially in November. As has been stated here..,an annual early-season stinker during the reign of the Hillbilly did little to diminish belief in our coach and program . Where were the Chicken Littles then?  I knowIknow...but now it's Year 5 whipped by Year 2, IU was down 3 players... yadda yadda.

 Yes, we looked unprepared in every sense. On Wojo, and I'm his biggest fan. He and his guys WILL have all of us eating crow in the near future. Count on that. And please shove this post in my face at the end of the year if we don't meet expectations. Our coaches and players are accountable, Scoop posters should be as well.

Sadly, that’s the nature of humanity. It’s easier to criticize and tear down than to empathize and support.

That said, Wojo has had time. One game a season or a coach does not make. However five years of games, well, that’s another thing. I hope you’re correct. I hope this team turns it around. If not, it’s time to be realistic about the program and who is running it.

Wojo has definite positives. Everyone does. Everyone also has negatives. For example, Wojo in the huddle is a negative. I cringe everytime! Maybe it is not insightful or indicative of his coaching style. Five years of so-so play, not getting the most out of his guys from a defensive and hustle standpoint, makes me wonder though. Are those stupid huddles a sign of Wojo’s coaching? I don’t know. Did you see Archie actually coaching (like most other coaches) and not just awkwardly restating the same phrase over and over with unnatural pauses.

Maybe Wojo just isn’t a motivator of men. The problem is, at this level, motivation is as important as X’s and O’s, or as recruiting. Buzz had all three. He also was a phony who became sold on the idea of himself, which led to pushing boundaries so as to be able to continue that idea. Wojo can recruit. Can he do the X’s and O’s? Can he motivate? Five years in, sadly I am thinking maybe he can’t. That’s a reality.

While he’s our coach, I’ll continue to support him and this squad. Criticism is okay as long as it is reasonable and fair and not simply one-sided. Bottom line: I think this is a make or break season for Coach, even if the break doesn’t necessarily mean a firing. But all the pieces are here. It’s time to show up.

Also, I think that fresh flour tortillas made with real lard are amazing.

[vogue65]

Coaching is not done on game day and I think Wojo understands that.  He also understands the capabilities of his players.  Now the team knows what playing at a very high level means.  The question is, are they capable of taking it up a few notches or can they be more deciplined and play within themselves and win?  Those are questions not knowable from sideline "motivational" rants. 

[brewcity77]

As has been stated here..,an annual early-season stinker during the reign of the Hillbilly did little to diminish belief in our coach and program . Where were the Chicken Littles then?

They were here, complaining the same way. Honestly, I think it was worse then. After Dayton, Florida, Green Bay, it was the same or worse.

[tower912]

And they were after Crean, too.   Recency bias being what it is, so many forget that there was an annual kvetch fest every year about Buzz and his....
Early season losses
Schtick
Being team bubble watch
His team defense
His unwillingness to play freshman who didn't understand the team defense that no one liked
His offense early in the year that he hadn't put in yet because they were spending all of their time on a defense that the freshmen couldn't play and nobody liked.
Free throws and time spent practicing them
His roster composition
If he was job hunting
His time outs
His in game adjustments.
Inability to develop players

Bottom line, fans turn into whiners when their teams lose.   

[Goose]

I am not giving up on Morrow. I am hopeful that by BE time he will be the player I expected him to be.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I am not giving up on Morrow. I am hopeful that by BE time he will be the player I expected him to be.

Of all things so far this season he has been my biggest concern. I'm not giving up on him either.

[Goose]

TAMU
I did not have crazy expectations for Joe C., but admit I did for Morrow. To date, a big disappointment. Still believe he will be a contributor this season. If not, it could be a long year.

[JamilJaeJamailJrJuan]

I hope Wojo gives both these guys a ton of run tomorrow. Let them shake the dust.  Start them if need be.  Give them 25 minutes plus.  We need both of these guys next week. 

[79Warrior]

This is all on Wojo. He looks like a deer in the headlights and his defense sucks ass. I questioning his talent evaluating ability and his ability to field a complete, high major competitive team. MU looked lost and completely out coached by Archie. Look for Kansas and Louisville/Tennessee to lay another embarassing ass kicking on Wojo.

I am not ready to throw in the towel yet. I agree that he clearly has issues. If we get smoked in NYC then I will be concerned for the BE season, no matter how weak folks think the conference may be. I do not expect us to beat Kansas, but a respectable performance is important. If Kansas pounds us like IU did then I will wonder if this team has the ability to hang with high majors.

[Newsdreams]

I am not ready to throw in the towel yet. I agree that he clearly has issues. If we get smoked in NYC then I will be concerned for the BE season, no matter how weak folks think the conference may be. I do not expect us to beat Kansas, but a respectable performance is important. If Kansas pounds us like IU did then I will wonder if this team has the ability to hang with high majors.

I was expecting a loss at IU not a pounding, but I was expecting a pounding from Kansas before IU.