Rank the Top 20 NBA Players

[wadesworld]

Having a debate with a friend.  Rank your top 20 NBA players going into the 2018-2019 season.

1) LeBron
2) Durant
3) Anthony Davis
4) Giannis
5) Steph
6) Kawhi (if he comes back healthy)
7) Harden
8) CP3
9) Westbrook
10) Paul George
11) DeRozan
12) Lillard
13) Embiid
14) Oladipo
15) Klay
16) Butler
17) Wall
18) Mitchell
19) Draymond
20) Hayward

After the top 9 it got very hard for me.  Other players I considered were Horford, Gobert, Tatum, Jocic, Aldridge.

[MU82]

After Kemba Walker, not sure how the next 19 would fall!

Seriously, wades, one could quibble a little with the order after LeBron and Durant, but I also like your first 9 very much. For that matter, your top 20 is a pretty good representation.

At first blush, I'd say Oladipo seems a little high because he hasn't been at this level long enough. Then again, you were on him before any other Scooper and you proved right, so who am I to say?

I might move up Draymond because of his all-around value, and move down Wall just because I don't really like his game all that much. Also, Kyrie, if healthy, is better than quite a few of these in the second 10 ... but I allow that's a pretty big "if" for him.  I'm also not the biggest Paul George fan because he has been a choker pretty much his entire career, but he obviously is talented.

Nice job here!

[wadesworld]

After Kemba Walker, not sure how the next 19 would fall!

Seriously, wades, one could quibble a little with the order after LeBron and Durant, but I also like your first 9 very much. For that matter, your top 20 is a pretty good representation.

At first blush, I'd say Oladipo seems a little high because he hasn't been at this level long enough. Then again, you were on him before any other Scooper and you proved right, so who am I to say?

I might move up Draymond because of his all-around value, and move down Wall just because I don't really like his game all that much. Also, Kyrie, if healthy, is better than quite a few of these in the second 10 ... but I allow that's a pretty big "if" for him.  I'm also not the biggest Paul George fan because he has been a choker pretty much his entire career, but he obviously is talented.

Nice job here!

Honestly Kyrie was a total oversight. I’d probably reorder it 11) Kyrie, 12) Lillard, 13) DeRozan.

[reinko]

Having a debate with a friend.  Rank your top 20 NBA players going into the 2018-2019 season.

1) LeBron
2) Durant
3) Anthony Davis
4) Giannis
5) Steph
6) Kawhi (if he comes back healthy)
7) Harden
8) CP3
9) Westbrook
10) Paul George
11) DeRozan
12) Lillard
13) Embiid
14) Oladipo
15) Klay
16) Butler
17) Wall
18) Mitchell
19) Draymond
20) Hayward

After the top 9 it got very hard for me.  Other players I considered were Horford, Gobert, Tatum, Jocic, Aldridge.

Agree a lot with 82s thoughts, would find a spot for Kyrie, probably drop Hayward or Wall.

Only big quibble is the consideration of Horford in the conversation. I could name 10-15 players NOT on your list before considering Horford. (off the top of my head in no order:  McCollum, Beal, Simmons, Middleton, Demar, Jaylen B, Booker, Kemba, Lowery, and Love.)

[reinko]

Agree a lot with 82s thoughts, would find a spot for Kyrie, probably drop Hayward or Wall.

Only big quibble is the consideration of Horford in the conversation. I could name 10-15 players NOT on your list before considering Horford. (off the top of my head in no order:  McCollum, Beal, Simmons, Middleton, Demar, Jaylen B, Booker, Kemba, Lowery, and Love.)

Edit.. Missed u put in Demar

[wadesworld]

Agree a lot with 82s thoughts, would find a spot for Kyrie, probably drop Hayward or Wall.

Only big quibble is the consideration of Horford in the conversation. I could name 10-15 players NOT on your list before considering Horford. (off the top of my head in no order:  McCollum, Beal, Simmons, Middleton, Demar, Jaylen B, Booker, Kemba, Lowery, and Love.)

Yeah (was probably responding to 82 while you were responding), Kyrie was an oversight and would be somewhere around 11.

Some of your list I agree with, others I'm not sure.  I think Horford is so underrated, even though I hate him.  A Draymond Lite to me.  In my opinion, maybe the most important Celtic.

[reinko]

Yeah (was probably responding to 82 while you were responding), Kyrie was an oversight and would be somewhere around 11.

Some of your list I agree with, others I'm not sure.  I think Horford is so underrated, even though I hate him.  A Draymond Lite to me.  In my opinion, maybe the most important Celtic.

Don't disagree your comment around value to the C's, but I took the question is just best straight up hoopers, regardless of team. Think Horford's game while still good, would be greatly diminished on an average or bad team.

[nyg]

Having a debate with a friend.  Rank your top 20 NBA players going into the 2018-2019 season.

1) LeBron
2) Durant
3) Anthony Davis
4) Giannis
5) Steph
6) Kawhi (if he comes back healthy)
7) Harden
8) CP3
9) Westbrook
10) Paul George
11) DeRozan
12) Lillard
13) Embiid
14) Oladipo
15) Klay
16) Butler
17) Wall
18) Mitchell
19) Draymond
20) Hayward

After the top 9 it got very hard for me.  Other players I considered were Horford, Gobert, Tatum, Jocic, Aldridge.

I am with Kyrie, but also Porzingis.  I know he is out now, but he is really good. 

[reinko]

Wades, a more fun question.  Who is your starting 5 for the fictional battle against the aliens?  Assume all players are 100% healthy, with a game to 21 so conditioning/age isn't a factor.

I lean toward as many two way players with CP3, KD, Bron, AD and a coin flip of Giannis or Kawhi, but probably KL.

[MU82]

Wades, a more fun question.  Who is your starting 5 for the fictional battle against the aliens?  Assume all players are 100% healthy, with a game to 21 so conditioning/age isn't a factor.

I lean toward as many two way players with CP3, KD, Bron, AD and a coin flip of Giannis or Kawhi, but probably KL.

Coached by Ditka, of course. My friends.

[wadesworld]

Think I’d go Steph at PG (his shooting ability makes him a must have to me) then Kawhi, KD, LBJ at the 2-4, and AD at the 5.

Would be tempted to do Giannis at the 5 just for fun.

[Silkk the Shaka]

1) LeBron
2) Durant
3) Steph
4) Harden
5) Giannis
6) Kawhi (if he comes back healthy)
7) Westbrook
8) Anthony Davis
9) CP3
10) Butler
11) Lillard
12) Simmons
13) Embiid
14) PG13
15) Lowry
16) Gobert
17) Mitchell
18) Wall
19) Cousins (if he comes back healthy)
20) Jokic

Honorable mention (in no order): Kyrie, Dray, Klay, Hayward, Vic, Kemba, Tatum, KAT, Drummond, Aldridge, Horford, Beal

[wadesworld]

I am with Kyrie, but also Porzingis.  I know he is out now, but he is really good.

Love Porzingis. Think, assuming he’s able to return to 100% and then improve like a 20 year old does, he’ll get there. But I don’t think he was a top 20 player yet and now he’s out for this entire year so I couldn’t even consider him for my list.

Clearly has top 20 potential.

[Herman Cain]

Having a debate with a friend.  Rank your top 20 NBA players going into the 2018-2019 season.

1) LeBron
2) Durant
3) Anthony Davis
4) Giannis
5) Steph
6) Kawhi (if he comes back healthy)
7) Harden
8) CP3
9) Westbrook
10) Paul George
11) DeRozan
12) Lillard
13) Embiid
14) Oladipo
15) Klay
16) Butler
17) Wall
18) Mitchell
19) Draymond
20) Hayward

After the top 9 it got very hard for me.  Other players I considered were Horford, Gobert, Tatum, Jocic, Aldridge.

Lazar should be rated higher than Draymond.

[brewcity77]

Lazar should be rated higher than Draymond.

That made me laugh. 

[Plaque Lives Matter!]

Having a debate with a friend.  Rank your top 20 NBA players going into the 2018-2019 season.

1) LeBron
2) Durant
3) Anthony Davis
4) Giannis
5) Steph
6) Kawhi (if he comes back healthy)
7) Harden
8) CP3
9) Westbrook
10) Paul George
11) DeRozan
12) Lillard
13) Embiid
14) Oladipo
15) Klay
16) Butler
17) Wall
18) Mitchell
19) Draymond
20) Hayward

After the top 9 it got very hard for me.  Other players I considered were Horford, Gobert, Tatum, Jocic, Aldridge.

I don't hate the list. I think you might be a little high on CP3 but there's kind of a log jam there. I would honestly move Embiid up more too, at least ahead of Paul George. Only things I really disagree with is Derozan being that high. I don't think he is top twenty. That being said, seeing him under Pop will be intriguing.

[BM1090]

Having a debate with a friend.  Rank your top 20 NBA players going into the 2018-2019 season.

1) LeBron
2) Durant
3) Anthony Davis
4) Giannis
5) Steph
6) Kawhi (if he comes back healthy)
7) Harden
8) CP3
9) Westbrook
10) Paul George
11) DeRozan
12) Lillard
13) Embiid
14) Oladipo
15) Klay
16) Butler
17) Wall
18) Mitchell
19) Draymond
20) Hayward

After the top 9 it got very hard for me.  Other players I considered were Horford, Gobert, Tatum, Jocic, Aldridge.

I'm not going to try to reorder the bottom 5-7 because frankly it just gets too hard to distinguish for me after the top 5 or so.

1) LeBron
2) Steph
3) Durant
4) Giannis
5) Davis
6) Harden
7) Kawhi
8) Westbrook
9) Embiid
10) Jokic
11) DeRozan
12) George
13) Lillard

[Plaque Lives Matter!]

I'm not going to try to reorder the bottom 5-7 because frankly it just gets too hard to distinguish for me after the top 5 or so.

1) LeBron
2) Steph
3) Durant
4) Giannis
5) Davis
6) Harden
7) Kawhi
8) Westbrook
9) Embiid
10) Jokic
11) DeRozan
12) George
13) Lillard

What is your rationale for putting Steph over Durant?

[BM1090]

What is your rationale for putting Steph over Durant?

Steph is by far my favorite player so I'm biased.

Also the Warriors record without Steph vs. without Durant. The Warriors have won 20+ straight games when Steph plays and Durant sits. When Steph was out down the stretch last year the Warriors went just 10-7. I think the way Steph shapes a game impacts a team more. Steph's plus/minus is always way better than KDs. Of course this could be because Kerr's system revolves more around Steph's skillset.

If you're just rating basketball skills then Durant wins as he is almost equal to Steph offensively and superior defensively.

I've read a lot of articles from a lot of smart basketball people over the past two years that have reaffirmed my belief that Steph is better. NBA rank had Steph at 2. This excerpt from below from Zach Lowe's season preview is the most recent example.

"Both Curry and Durant have done it. Both barely missed last season. Curry shot 49.5 percent overall, and Durant hasn't cracked 90 percent from the line since 2012-13 -- his only 50/40/90 campaign. Come on, you slacker! Focus!

The 50/40/90 conceit has become outdated as players jack more 3s; it's hard to make half your shots when a huge portion of them have a 40 percent hit rate in good seasons. That Curry has sniffed this so many times is ridiculous. Almost 60 percent of his attempts were 3s last season! You hear it from rival executives and media here and there: "Has Curry become underrated?"

I think there is truth to that, as absurd as it sounds. Golden State's offense has never functioned all that well without him -- even in the Durant era. Curry is a revolution. LeBron is the league's best all-around player. Curry is closer to LeBron than to the jumble of guys below Durant with whom he is often lumped."

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/24988629/zach-lowe-crazy-predictions-2018-19-nba-season%3Fplatform%3Damp&ved=0ahUKEwiEit72no_eAhXQt1kKHWMDBJcQyM8BCB0wAA&usg=AOvVaw08KeWKGAwV-gFnRufEFsLG&ampcf=1

I could keep going but the bottom line is I think it is close and Curry just impacts the game more which gives him the edge.

[Plaque Lives Matter!]

Steph is by far my favorite player so I'm biased.

Also the Warriors record without Steph vs. without Durant. The Warriors have won 20+ straight games when Steph plays and Durant sits. When Steph was out down the stretch last year the Warriors went just 10-7. I think the way Steph shapes a game impacts a team more. Steph's plus/minus is always way better than KDs. Of course this could be because Kerr's system revolves more around Steph's skillset.

If you're just rating basketball skills then Durant wins as he is almost equal to Steph offensively and superior defensively.

I've read a lot of articles from a lot of smart basketball people over the past two years that have reaffirmed my belief that Steph is better. NBA rank had Steph at 2. This excerpt from below from Zach Lowe's season preview is the most recent example.

"Both Curry and Durant have done it. Both barely missed last season. Curry shot 49.5 percent overall, and Durant hasn't cracked 90 percent from the line since 2012-13 -- his only 50/40/90 campaign. Come on, you slacker! Focus!

The 50/40/90 conceit has become outdated as players jack more 3s; it's hard to make half your shots when a huge portion of them have a 40 percent hit rate in good seasons. That Curry has sniffed this so many times is ridiculous. Almost 60 percent of his attempts were 3s last season! You hear it from rival executives and media here and there: "Has Curry become underrated?"

I think there is truth to that, as absurd as it sounds. Golden State's offense has never functioned all that well without him -- even in the Durant era. Curry is a revolution. LeBron is the league's best all-around player. Curry is closer to LeBron than to the jumble of guys below Durant with whom he is often lumped."

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/24988629/zach-lowe-crazy-predictions-2018-19-nba-season%3Fplatform%3Damp&ved=0ahUKEwiEit72no_eAhXQt1kKHWMDBJcQyM8BCB0wAA&usg=AOvVaw08KeWKGAwV-gFnRufEFsLG&ampcf=1

I could keep going but the bottom line is I think it is close and Curry just impacts the game more which gives him the edge.

Well reasoned. I tend to put Durant higher based on playoff performance but it is indeed close. Not that this affects the rankings, but sometimes I wonder about Steph playing on a current middle of the road team without his lineup there to spread out the court and move the ball like it does. I get that Steph dictates this offense but without Klay's catch and shoot I would be interested to see how his game would be impacted.

[MU82]

Not sure Steph is "better" than KD. They are very different players. I'd take 'em both!

[BM1090]

Not sure Steph is "better" than KD. They are very different players. I'd take 'em both!

I'm not sure either. I can see the argument either way, but I prefer Steph's game.

For me it is:

LeBron
(big gap)
Steph
KD
(big gap)
Giannis
Davis
(big gap)

Everyone else

[MU82]

Thought we had an NBA Season thread but couldn't find it, so I'm throwing this here from betting site Bovada:

Who will be the first coach to leave their post in the 2018-2019 NBA Season?

Luke Walton                              7/4
Tom Thibodeau                         2/1
Fred Hoiberg                             5/1
Billy Donovan                            15/2
Scott Brooks                             10/1
Dave Joerger                            12/1
Tyronn Lue                                12/1
Terry Stotts                               12/1

I'm thinking Lue because the Cavs are horrible and their hotheaded owner is a knee-jerk kind of guy. But I could see several of the others, too.

[wadesworld]

Thought we had an NBA Season thread but couldn't find it, so I'm throwing this here from betting site Bovada:

Who will be the first coach to leave their post in the 2018-2019 NBA Season?

Luke Walton                              7/4
Tom Thibodeau                         2/1
Fred Hoiberg                             5/1
Billy Donovan                            15/2
Scott Brooks                             10/1
Dave Joerger                            12/1
Tyronn Lue                                12/1
Terry Stotts                               12/1

I'm thinking Lue because the Cavs are horrible and their hotheaded owner is a knee-jerk kind of guy. But I could see several of the others, too.

LBJ has a history of running coaches out of town pretty quickly.

Safe bet is Hoiberg though.  Although I'm not sure what superstar they have that is going to force the issue.

[MU82]

LBJ has a history of running coaches out of town pretty quickly.

Safe bet is Hoiberg though.  Although I'm not sure what superstar they have that is going to force the issue.

True on both counts. What I don't know is how much Magic likes Walton - will he stick up for Walton the way Riley stuck up for Spoelstra?