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[Its DJOver]

Defense is important, yet I feel with the 3-point shot impacting hoops so much, Elite Offense is now far more predictive of success, than elite/good defense.

I feel like last year kinda proved that you needed both.  Our elite offensive was more than offset by our terrible defense, and Virginia's inability to score consistently (although that is partially due to their pace) caught up with them.  Going into the tourney, as biased as I was, I always felt that Nova had a better chance to win it all than Virginia, because they had the ability to win a game in the 90s as well as in the 60s,  Virginia did not.

I agree that our offensive won't be as good next year, but I do not see a scenario where we don't finish with a top 25 offense.  Our defense should be much improved, which should more than offset any small step back offensively.

[GGGG]

It's not like we are lacking offense this year.  Don't get me wrong, Rowsey was great, but I think we are going to be able to make up a lot of what he brought on the offensive end with Joey and the continued growth of players like Jamal and Greg.  And JC (and Ed) will give us a much better defensive presence. 

[brewcity77]

Yet i used two years ago because it was a much older team than last year.  Bottom line haanif started most games at point solid defender,

That is a blatant lie. Howard and Rowsey were at the point. Stop lying.

jj no reason as a good athkete n senior he could nt defend,

Because he gambled overly much on steals and didn't challenge shooters.

wilso 4th year no good reason so horrible,

You mean the guy who was playing injured and played sparingly? Wilson only hit the 20 mpg mark in 3 of the last 15 games & never hit 25 in that stretch.

katin same,

As exhibited above, one of our "best" defenders, but he was just average.

luke 6’11 could block a shot lack of athleticism but should not have been horrible.  My point is we had an old senior laden team n they sucked.

You spent that entire year ragging on Luke, so for you to start talking about his attributes now is an amusing reconstruction of past events. Luke was great in a zone, and poor in man. Not that hard to figure out. Also, of the 5 guys you reference, 3 were recruited by Buzz and the other two were generally regarded as among our better defenders.

Again, I also have concerns about this year's defense, but your rationales are inaccurate.

[brewcity77]

Right.  My point was we were 12th in the Nation in offense, and I believe Andrew played a MAJOR role in us achieving that status.

He did, but when looking at next year, I think the most predictive thing is to look at Rowsey making his teammates better. In games when he had 5+ assists, Marquette went 12-4. When he had 4 or fewer, we went 9-10. If you take out sub-225 home games where you should win regardless, those numbers go to 11-4 and 5-10 respectively.

Rowsey was a nice offensive player, but in terms of wins and losses, when he shared the ball we generally won, when he didn't we generally lost. Replacing him with a player that is less greedy on offense & more likely to look to find his teammates could very well not only help the offense more than Rowsey did, but should certainly help in terms of wins and losses.

[Nukem2]

He did, but when looking at next year, I think the most predictive thing is to look at Rowsey making his teammates better. In games when he had 5+ assists, Marquette went 12-4. When he had 4 or fewer, we went 9-10. If you take out sub-225 home games where you should win regardless, those numbers go to 11-4 and 5-10 respectively.

Rowsey was a nice offensive player, but in terms of wins and losses, when he shared the ball we generally won, when he didn't we generally lost. Replacing him with a player that is less greedy on offense & more likely to look to find his teammates could very well not only help the offense more than Rowsey did, but should certainly help in terms of wins and losses.

I would agree.  Certainly, in games like Creighton and Oregon, Rowsey sometimes carried MU on his back.  Then again, games like those at DePaul... 

[bilsu]

He did, but when looking at next year, I think the most predictive thing is to look at Rowsey making his teammates better. In games when he had 5+ assists, Marquette went 12-4. When he had 4 or fewer, we went 9-10. If you take out sub-225 home games where you should win regardless, those numbers go to 11-4 and 5-10 respectively.

Rowsey was a nice offensive player, but in terms of wins and losses, when he shared the ball we generally won, when he didn't we generally lost. Replacing him with a player that is less greedy on offense & more likely to look to find his teammates could very well not only help the offense more than Rowsey did, but should certainly help in terms of wins and losses.

I think Rowsey was a much better point guard after he scored 0 points in a game. After that it seemed to me his assists went up. However, looking at number of assists to wins may be a reflection of other players making shots. A low assist game can be because other players are missing the shots and not because Rowsey was not sharing the ball.

Rowsey won SoG 9 out of a possible 21 wins. I suspect he was second best in the majority of the other 12 wins. So he was easily our key player last year. Rowsey averaged 20 points. Assume Howard's and Sam's averages each increase 2 points and Chartouney averages 10, that leaves 6 points to be made up by the rest of the team. That is certainly doable. I suspect we will average as many points as last year. What I do not know is whether we will have a player that can hit the dagger shot.

[Its DJOver]

What I do not know is whether we will have a player that can hit the dagger shot.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88YFl1ilqcU
3 minute mark.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lqH-Q-wwpk
Literally the entire second half and overtime.

Most teams would kill to have one player that is that good of a pure shooter.  We're blessed with two.  They will hit plenty of daggers before they leave.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Right.  My point was we were 12th in the Nation in offense, and I believe Andrew played a MAJOR role in us achieving that status.  Despite all the talent on the team this upcoming year, there will be regression offensively, and there should be improvement defensively.  Question being the delta on both metrics, and how that plays out.

Yes, Rowsey had a major impact on the offense. So much so that despite him being the only significant loss, I except our offense to either stay the same or take a step or two back (top 20 rather than top 12).

Simply put:

Losing Rowsey and Froling < The addition of JC/Joey/Bailey/Morrow/Eke and development of M2N, Sammy, Sacar, Heldt, Elliott, Cain, and John

[Floorslapper]

He did, but when looking at next year, I think the most predictive thing is to look at Rowsey making his teammates better. In games when he had 5+ assists, Marquette went 12-4. When he had 4 or fewer, we went 9-10. If you take out sub-225 home games where you should win regardless, those numbers go to 11-4 and 5-10 respectively.

Rowsey was a nice offensive player, but in terms of wins and losses, when he shared the ball we generally won, when he didn't we generally lost. Replacing him with a player that is less greedy on offense & more likely to look to find his teammates could very well not only help the offense more than Rowsey did, but should certainly help in terms of wins and losses.

I would postulate that Rowsey was the Number 1 priority on the scouting report for the opposition.  Markus 2.  Sam 3.  The floor spacing opened up by Rowsey's legitimate (and willing ability) to hit from 28-32" feet, was hugely valuable for both Markus and Sam.

I tend to disagree with the bolded.  You want your best/most efficient player to be "greedy," yet within that greed Andrew had a stellar 28.6% Assist Rate - Chartouney had a 28.9 Assist Rate and his 94.9 O-Rating wasn't particularly stellar, while playing in an easier conference/schedule 147th overall to MU's 24th.

[NWarsh]

I would postulate that Rowsey was the Number 1 priority on the scouting report for the opposition.  Markus 2.  Sam 3.  The floor spacing opened up by Rowsey's legitimate (and willing ability) to hit from 28-32" feet, was hugely valuable for both Markus and Sam.

I tend to disagree with the bolded.  You want your best/most efficient player to be "greedy," yet within that greed Andrew had a stellar 28.6% Assist Rate - Chartouney had a 28.9 Assist Rate and his 94.9 O-Rating wasn't particularly stellar, while playing in an easier conference/schedule 147th overall to MU's 24th.

I do not agree with your cherry picking stats.  He also played with far inferior talent.  His previous two years he had ARates and ORtgs of 31.9 (44th nationally), 98.2 and 36.2 (21st nationally), 102.6.

Last year he was asked to play beyond what his ideal role is.  A guard who is an elite defender and a distributor.

[Mr. Sand-Knit]

Defense is important, yet I feel with the 3-point shot impacting hoops so much, Elite Offense is now far more predictive of success, than elite/good defense.

Have u been living in a whole the last two years?  We lost almost 30 games while playing turnstile defense even with one of the top offenses in the entire country.  Were rarely even competitive with the top teams and bad teams hung with us do to our layup line defense. 

[Mr. Sand-Knit]

That is a blatant lie. Howard and Rowsey were at the point. Stop lying.

Because he gambled overly much on steals and didn't challenge shooters.

You mean the guy who was playing injured and played sparingly? Wilson only hit the 20 mpg mark in 3 of the last 15 games & never hit 25 in that stretch.

As exhibited above, one of our "best" defenders, but he was just average.

You spent that entire year ragging on Luke, so for you to start talking about his attributes now is an amusing reconstruction of past events. Luke was great in a zone, and poor in man. Not that hard to figure out. Also, of the 5 guys you reference, 3 were recruited by Buzz and the other two were generally regarded as among our better defenders.

Again, I also have concerns about this year's defense, but your rationales are inaccurate.

So thick.  Didnt say they were good defenders, strength, size, athleticism coaching n desire are what it takes to play defense.  Those guys had the size, strength n athleticism minus luke he had the size .  My point is they SHOULD, i will repeat because it apparently lost on you SHOULD, have been good defenders.  Has to be desire or coaching missing.  For that reason i dont see much improvement in that area.  Wojo seems entirely focused on offense.  Hope i am wrong. 

[Floorslapper]

Defense is important, yet I feel with the 3-point shot impacting hoops so much, Elite Offense is now far more predictive of success, than elite/good defense.

Have u been living in a whole the last two years?  We lost almost 30 games while playing turnstile defense even with one of the top offenses in the entire country.  Were rarely even competitive with the top teams and bad teams hung with us do to our layup line defense.

Think of it this way:  We were 53rd overall in Pomeroy.  12th in offense or 41 spots better than our ranking.  At 182 in Defense we were 129 spots worse than our season rating of 53.  Hypothesis being:  Our elite offense helped us "more" than our poor defense hurt.

[MUDPT]

Katin and Luke were tied for worst Defensive PPP when we they were on the floor in 2016-17.

[Newsdreams]

It's not like we are lacking offense this year.  Don't get me wrong, Rowsey was great, but I think we are going to be able to make up a lot of what he brought on the offensive end with Joey and the continued growth of players like Jamal and Greg.  And JC (and Ed) will give us a much better defensive presence.

This and they know they need D to get going
At least Theo knows
https://twitter.com/theojohn123/status/1031826868230602752?s=21
Plus there were a lot of coaches in BE play who thought key was to stop Sam. I felt when Sam underperformed the whole team did.

[Its DJOver]

So thick.  Didnt say they were good defenders, strength, size, athleticism coaching n desire are what it takes to play defense.  Those guys had the size, strength n athleticism minus luke he had the size .  My point is they SHOULD, i will repeat because it apparently lost on you SHOULD, have been good defenders.  Has to be desire or coaching missing.  For that reason i dont see much improvement in that area.  Wojo seems entirely focused on offense.  Hope i am wrong.

Your idea of what is required to be a good defender leaves a lot to be desired.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Think of it this way:  We were 53rd overall in Pomeroy.  12th in offense or 41 spots better than our ranking.  At 182 in Defense we were 129 spots worse than our season rating of 53.  Hypothesis being:  Our elite offense helped us "more" than our poor defense hurt.

Yeah....that's not how stats work. You have to look at the actual stats, not the rankings.

Our KenPom ranking was 53rd.

Our 12th rated offense was given a score of 119.2. The 53rd ranked offense had a score of 112.9. For a difference of +6.2

Our 182nd rated defense was given a score of 105.6. The 53rd ranked defense had a score of 98.0 for a difference of -7.6.

Rankings are almost always on a bell curve. The closer you get to the extremes of a ranking the more distance there is between positions. Marquette's defense last season was right in the middle of the bell curve. Only a little bit of improvement on defense will send them soaring in the rankings. For example, a 5 point improvement to their defensive efficiency would have cut their ranking in half, moving them up 92 spots to #90. A 5 point decrease to their offensive efficiency would have only moved them down 32 spots to #44.

So Marquette's #53 ranking wasn't because offense is more important than defense. It's because the rankings are on a bell curve.

[MU82]

Have u been living in a whole the last two years?

A whole what?

Plus there were a lot of coaches in BE play who thought key was to stop Sam. I felt when Sam underperformed the whole team did.

You know, I noticed that, too, and I have some concerns about it this season.

If an opponent wants to shut down a guy with Sam's offensive skill set, they usually can do it. Just don't leave him open on the perimeter, make him beat you to shoot tough 2s. Do hard denies on him so he can't even catch the ball outside; make him go backdoor, thereby forcing his teammates to thread passes to him for 2s.

When we had both Smurfs on the court, too, we could usually get one of them an open 3 if Sam was being closely guarded like that. It will be interesting to see how often the opposing coach tries to take away Sam, even if it means a big game for Markus.

And yes, AR had that "dagger 3" mentality. I know we have a couple other guys who can hit them, but AR really, really wanted that shot. Indeed, there were many times I screamed, "No!" at the TV right until the ball went in. He probably was my all-time, "Nooo! Nooo! Yes!" player in all my years watching the Warriors.

[Newsdreams]

A whole what?

You know, I noticed that, too, and I have some concerns about it this season.

If an opponent wants to shut down a guy with Sam's offensive skill set, they usually can do it. Just don't leave him open on the perimeter, make him beat you to shoot tough 2s. Do hard denies on him so he can't even catch the ball outside; make him go backdoor, thereby forcing his teammates to thread passes to him for 2s.

When we had both Smurfs on the court, too, we could usually get one of them an open 3 if Sam was being closely guarded like that. It will be interesting to see how often the opposing coach tries to take away Sam, even if it means a big game for Markus.

And yes, AR had that "dagger 3" mentality. I know we have a couple other guys who can hit them, but AR really, really wanted that shot. Indeed, there were many times I screamed, "No!" at the TV right until the ball went in. He probably was my all-time, "Nooo! Nooo! Yes!" player in all my years watching the Warriors.

I'm more positive than many here that he will fully recover and will be a lot faster an agile when he is closely guarded. I do think Sam will be very hard to guard next season with either Morrow or Joey at the other forward position.

[bilsu]

Someone mentioned that Rowsey was a greedy player. Howard played 72 minutes less (1071 minutes vs. 1143) than Rowsey and took 20 more shots than Rowsey. Howard had 94 assists to Rowsey's 169.

[Jay Bee]

Howard played 72 minutes less (1071 minutes vs. 1143) than Rowsey and took 20 more shots than Rowsey. Howard had 94 assists to Rowsey's 169.

#TheThing

[brewcity77]

Someone mentioned that Rowsey was a greedy player. Howard played 72 minutes less (1071 minutes vs. 1143) than Rowsey and took 20 more shots than Rowsey. Howard had 94 assists to Rowsey's 169.

Also, Rowsey played the 1 and Howard the 2.

[Floorslapper]

Someone mentioned that Rowsey was a greedy player. Howard played 72 minutes less (1071 minutes vs. 1143) than Rowsey and took 20 more shots than Rowsey. Howard had 94 assists to Rowsey's 169.

To expound on the notion Rowsey/Markus were greedy/selfish:  It's not being greedy when you are good.  Rowsey and Markus should have been our leading shot takers.  Of course when you shot a lot (as you should), there will be some ill-advised attempts.

On the whole, though, shooting a lot didn't make Rowsey or Markus greedy/selfish.  Perhaps there were a few games where they got carried away, but again, on the whole - those guys get the benefit of the doubt.  Wojo made the right call/a good coaching decision - giving those guys pretty much free reign to fire.

[GGGG]

To expound on the notion Rowsey/Markus were greedy/selfish:  It's not being greedy when you are good.  Rowsey and Markus should have been our leading shot takers.  Of course when you shot a lot (as you should), there will be some ill-advised attempts.

On the whole, though, shooting a lot didn't make Rowsey or Markus greedy/selfish.  Perhaps there were a few games where they got carried away, but again, on the whole - those guys get the benefit of the doubt.  Wojo made the right call/a good coaching decision - giving those guys pretty much free reign to fire.

Yeah you can always nitpick some of the shots that good shooters take when they don't go in.  But when they drop, all of that pretty much goes away.  I never have considered Rowsey or Markus "selfish."  They're scorers doing what scorers do.  Of all the complaints to have about MU over the last couple of years, their offense certainly isn't one of them.

That being said, Andrew was terrible on defense.  That is where we hope to see improvement - hopefully without too much drop off in offense.

[Tha Hound]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88YFl1ilqcU
3 minute mark.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lqH-Q-wwpk
Literally the entire second half and overtime.

Most teams would kill to have one player that is that good of a pure shooter.  We're blessed with two.  They will hit plenty of daggers before they leave.

Wow, I completely forgot about that Georgetown length of the court game-tying drive. Truly shocking defense there.