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Author Topic: Major NCAA Changes: Agents, Returns If Not Drafted  (Read 9616 times)

TallTitan34

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Major NCAA Changes: Agents, Returns If Not Drafted
« on: August 08, 2018, 12:31:31 PM »
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/24320401/ncaa-announces-new-college-basketball-policy-including-agents-players-longer-postseason-bans

The NCAA adopted a series of policy and rule changes Wednesday that it hopes will clean up college basketball, which has been engulfed by an FBI investigation and other corruption over the past two years.

Among the significant changes that were adopted by the NCAA's Board of Governors and Division I Board of Directors are allowing elite high school basketball recruits and players to be represented by agents who are certified by the NCAA while still playing; allowing players to enter the NBA draft and return to school if undrafted; introducing more rigorous certification requirements for summer basketball-related events; and longer postseason bans, head coach suspensions and increased recruiting restrictions for college coaches who break the rules.

Galway Eagle

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Re: Major NCAA Changes: Agents, Returns If Not Drafted
« Reply #1 on: August 08, 2018, 12:32:30 PM »
So vander's coming back?
“More the knowledge, lesser the ego. Lesser the knowledge, more the ego.” Albert Einstein a note for some posters

#UnleashCain

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Re: Major NCAA Changes: Agents, Returns If Not Drafted
« Reply #2 on: August 08, 2018, 01:53:19 PM »
Took them enough years to do what baseball and hockey already have.

GoldenWarrior11

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Re: Major NCAA Changes: Agents, Returns If Not Drafted
« Reply #3 on: August 08, 2018, 02:10:31 PM »
Apparently, USA Basketball just found out today that they will be the organization responsible for determining the "elite" players. 

This sounds organized...

brewcity77

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Re: Major NCAA Changes: Agents, Returns If Not Drafted
« Reply #4 on: August 08, 2018, 02:24:30 PM »
Why do only "elite" players get agents? So guys like Dwyane Wade and Zhaire Smith don't have the agent option? If you let one player get an agent, all players should be able to get agents.

GGGG

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Re: Major NCAA Changes: Agents, Returns If Not Drafted
« Reply #5 on: August 08, 2018, 02:25:52 PM »
Apparently, USA Basketball just found out today that they will be the organization responsible for determining the "elite" players. 

This sounds organized...


So the elite players get representation, but the guy who is the next in line from elite cant be represented at all.  Not sure why that's the case.

And if a player engages with an agent, he must terminate that relationship should he decide to remain in school.  I'm sure the agent will give him sound advice under such a scenario.

The NCAA really doesn't know what it's doing.

Galway Eagle

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Re: Major NCAA Changes: Agents, Returns If Not Drafted
« Reply #6 on: August 08, 2018, 02:28:08 PM »
This is going to be a disaster. Can't wait for some type of class action lawsuits over the some players get agents some don't.
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bilsu

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Re: Major NCAA Changes: Agents, Returns If Not Drafted
« Reply #7 on: August 08, 2018, 02:44:07 PM »
This is going to be a disaster. Can't wait for some type of class action lawsuits over the some players get agents some don't.
Why are they entering the draft, if they are not elite players? They do not need an agent. Also why would an agent want to represent a player that has no chance of being drafted? The undrafted player can just dump the agent, so there is no benefit for an agent trying to represent a non-elite player.

TAMU Eagle

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Re: Major NCAA Changes: Agents, Returns If Not Drafted
« Reply #8 on: August 08, 2018, 03:06:13 PM »
Why are they entering the draft, if they are not elite players? They do not need an agent. Also why would an agent want to represent a player that has no chance of being drafted? The undrafted player can just dump the agent, so there is no benefit for an agent trying to represent a non-elite player.

People playing semi pro handball in Moldova have agents. There are agents for every level.

Also,  surprises happen every year.  Zhaire Smith was a 3 star recruit and he got drafted in the first round after his freshman year.  Under the the new rules,  it's doubtful he would have been allowed an agent.

The idea is good but the execution is likely going to be poor
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Galway Eagle

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Re: Major NCAA Changes: Agents, Returns If Not Drafted
« Reply #9 on: August 08, 2018, 04:36:14 PM »
Why are they entering the draft, if they are not elite players? They do not need an agent. Also why would an agent want to represent a player that has no chance of being drafted? The undrafted player can just dump the agent, so there is no benefit for an agent trying to represent a non-elite player.

https://www.si.com/college-basketball/2016/09/01/tony-anderson-southeast-missouri-state-nba-draft-one-done
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Herman Cain

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Re: Major NCAA Changes: Agents, Returns If Not Drafted
« Reply #11 on: August 08, 2018, 05:45:12 PM »
I think far too much attention is paid to the handful of kids who are bonafide NBA prospects. Not enough attention is given to the vast majority of players who won’t have any kind of professional career.

Overall ,the plan as outlined has merit. Should be good for the players, the school and the NBA.  The proverbial devil is in the details .
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brewcity77

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Re: Major NCAA Changes: Agents, Returns If Not Drafted
« Reply #13 on: August 08, 2018, 07:13:27 PM »
This plan is completely useless and doomed to failure. Here's why:

  • Agents: This is stupid. First, USA Basketball determines "elite". What about foreign players like Lauri Markkanen or Jakob Poetl or Harry Froling? So what, they will allow the top-25 players, but exclude #26? Or allow 100 and exclude #101? And if you go back to school, you have to leave the agent. There are no benefits to this.
  • Undrafted Returning to School: Maybe the worst of the rule change proposals. First, to qualify you have to be invited to the Combine but go undrafted. So that's an incredibly small pool of players. Second, you have 4 days after the draft to decide. So while you are getting invites from teams to play in the Summer League, you're supposed to make that choice without knowing how Summer League will go or what kind of professional opportunities you will get? Virtually no one will qualify or take advantage of this.
  • Recruiting Period: Because of the shorter period, most likely the championship weekends for Adidas Uprising and Under Armour will be moved up to the same weekend as Peach Jam. That will spread coaches even thinner and make recruiting harder. And the youth camps will include probably at most 800 players per class? So how do kids 801-1500 and beyond that might be able to earn D1 scholarships, or even scholarships and aid from D2 and D3 schools get noticed?
  • Visits: Recruits can now take 15 visits instead of 5, but schools can only host 28 instead of 24 over a two-year rolling period. So recruits increase their visits by 200% and schools increase it by 17%? That's nonsensical.
  • Enforcement: We're supposed to believe ADs and Presidents will now be on the hook for the NCAA? Presidents oversee the entire school, not just athletics, it's tough to imagine the NCAA will ever be able to enforce their punishments on them. And increasing punishments never stops anything. Coaches still want players, players still want money, and agents and shoe companies still want a slice, so none of this will change anything.
And that's the real problem. None of this will change anything. None of this actually addresses the issues the FBI investigation uncovered or any of the sweeping problems the NCAA says they are trying to fix. Allowing temporary agents won't get agents out of things and it won't legitimize them. Shutting out AAU coaches from the decision process won't fix AAU; no one in the room really understands it. This won't change what did or didn't happen at UNC, Louisville, Arizona, or any other schools that have been intermittently implicated because it doesn't address the actual issues.

The NCAA is just showing again they don't understand the issues and are impotent to fix them.

dw3dw3dw3

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Re: Major NCAA Changes: Agents, Returns If Not Drafted
« Reply #14 on: August 08, 2018, 08:06:29 PM »
Don't think it will fail, just something else to say is broken down the line. I do think the fringe players will get squeezed a little and it will be harder to get noticed on non-shoe teams.

Wonder what NY2LA/Curro is thinking. They basically wiped Summer Jam off the map. I know he's got other stuff, but that tourney was always loaded.

GGGG

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Re: Major NCAA Changes: Agents, Returns If Not Drafted
« Reply #15 on: August 08, 2018, 08:07:52 PM »
Gee it's almost as if the NCAA, with its Condi Rice lead panel, was more interested in a big PR win than it was actually fixing the problems.

GooooMarquette

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Re: Major NCAA Changes: Agents, Returns If Not Drafted
« Reply #16 on: August 08, 2018, 09:45:33 PM »
Gee it's almost as if the NCAA, with its Condi Rice lead panel, was more interested in a big PR win than it was actually fixing the problems.

Could something like that really happen? ;)

Herman Cain

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Re: Major NCAA Changes: Agents, Returns If Not Drafted
« Reply #17 on: August 08, 2018, 10:05:14 PM »
This plan is completely useless and doomed to failure. Here's why:

  • Agents: This is stupid. First, USA Basketball determines "elite". What about foreign players like Lauri Markkanen or Jakob Poetl or Harry Froling? So what, they will allow the top-25 players, but exclude #26? Or allow 100 and exclude #101? And if you go back to school, you have to leave the agent. There are no benefits to this.
  • Undrafted Returning to School: Maybe the worst of the rule change proposals. First, to qualify you have to be invited to the Combine but go undrafted. So that's an incredibly small pool of players. Second, you have 4 days after the draft to decide. So while you are getting invites from teams to play in the Summer League, you're supposed to make that choice without knowing how Summer League will go or what kind of professional opportunities you will get? Virtually no one will qualify or take advantage of this.
  • Recruiting Period: Because of the shorter period, most likely the championship weekends for Adidas Uprising and Under Armour will be moved up to the same weekend as Peach Jam. That will spread coaches even thinner and make recruiting harder. And the youth camps will include probably at most 800 players per class? So how do kids 801-1500 and beyond that might be able to earn D1 scholarships, or even scholarships and aid from D2 and D3 schools get noticed?
  • Visits: Recruits can now take 15 visits instead of 5, but schools can only host 28 instead of 24 over a two-year rolling period. So recruits increase their visits by 200% and schools increase it by 17%? That's nonsensical.
  • Enforcement: We're supposed to believe ADs and Presidents will now be on the hook for the NCAA? Presidents oversee the entire school, not just athletics, it's tough to imagine the NCAA will ever be able to enforce their punishments on them. And increasing punishments never stops anything. Coaches still want players, players still want money, and agents and shoe companies still want a slice, so none of this will change anything.
And that's the real problem. None of this will change anything. None of this actually addresses the issues the FBI investigation uncovered or any of the sweeping problems the NCAA says they are trying to fix. Allowing temporary agents won't get agents out of things and it won't legitimize them. Shutting out AAU coaches from the decision process won't fix AAU; no one in the room really understands it. This won't change what did or didn't happen at UNC, Louisville, Arizona, or any other schools that have been intermittently implicated because it doesn't address the actual issues.

The NCAA is just showing again they don't understand the issues and are impotent to fix them.
The camel was a horse built by a committee.

There will be material revisions to this paradigm over time. What will evolve is the end of the one and done system , and the ability of players to return to school if not drafted. The rest is all internal bickering by and among coaches and they will settle it out in a way that works to their own personal best interests.
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Re: Major NCAA Changes: Agents, Returns If Not Drafted
« Reply #18 on: August 08, 2018, 11:03:43 PM »
Gee it's almost as if the NCAA, with its Condi Rice lead panel, was more interested in a big PR win than it was actually fixing the problems.

yeah!  when will the ncaa learn that women belong in the kitchen, not big time b-ball

WarriorDad

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Re: Major NCAA Changes: Agents, Returns If Not Drafted
« Reply #19 on: August 08, 2018, 11:17:04 PM »
Gee it's almost as if the NCAA, with its Condi Rice lead panel, was more interested in a big PR win than it was actually fixing the problems.

It takes the NCAA a few years to do some things.  How many members have to vote on this stuff? Anyone know?  For some governance it requires the entire membership, but not sure on these.

Some of the progress made since the committee's proposals.  It has only been a few months, but some action already taken.

http://www.ncaa.org/about/committed-change
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brewcity77

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Re: Major NCAA Changes: Agents, Returns If Not Drafted
« Reply #20 on: August 09, 2018, 07:27:28 AM »
Some of the progress made since the committee's proposals.  It has only been a few months, but some action already taken.

http://www.ncaa.org/about/committed-change

This is complete lip service, and shoddy lip service at that. How does this actually address players being able to come back to school after declaring they are going pro? The limitations put on those players effectively will prevent any players from coming back that want to. How does this address the illegal payments from shoe companies and agents? It doesn't at all.

This isn't making progress or taking action, it's creating headlines to convince people progress was made. It's a complete sham that doesn't address any of the issues the FBI investigation opened in the first place.

Further, this is actually making things worse for kids and coaches. For kids not part of the USA Basketball setup, how are they supposed to get noticed? You'll get maybe what, 800 kids per year in that setup? What about the hundreds beyond that number that still earn D1 scholarships, D2 scholarships, or get to play in D3? The NCAA is ACTIVELY working to make their lives worse. This is an attack on children.

For the coaches, when do they get any time off? Changing the calendar like this will have them at USA basketball camps when they usually could have spent time with their families and raising their own children. Again, the NCAA is ACTIVELY working to make their lives worse.

This organization is so incredibly blind and incompetent. Every bit of "progress made" and "action already taken" either fails to address the problem at hand or deliberately makes the lives worse of the people they claim to be trying to serve.

WarriorDad

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Re: Major NCAA Changes: Agents, Returns If Not Drafted
« Reply #21 on: August 09, 2018, 09:22:00 AM »
This is complete lip service, and shoddy lip service at that. How does this actually address players being able to come back to school after declaring they are going pro? The limitations put on those players effectively will prevent any players from coming back that want to. How does this address the illegal payments from shoe companies and agents? It doesn't at all.

This isn't making progress or taking action, it's creating headlines to convince people progress was made. It's a complete sham that doesn't address any of the issues the FBI investigation opened in the first place.

Further, this is actually making things worse for kids and coaches. For kids not part of the USA Basketball setup, how are they supposed to get noticed? You'll get maybe what, 800 kids per year in that setup? What about the hundreds beyond that number that still earn D1 scholarships, D2 scholarships, or get to play in D3? The NCAA is ACTIVELY working to make their lives worse. This is an attack on children.

For the coaches, when do they get any time off? Changing the calendar like this will have them at USA basketball camps when they usually could have spent time with their families and raising their own children. Again, the NCAA is ACTIVELY working to make their lives worse.

This organization is so incredibly blind and incompetent. Every bit of "progress made" and "action already taken" either fails to address the problem at hand or deliberately makes the lives worse of the people they claim to be trying to serve.

Read today's Athletic article (requires subscription) on the topic.  They believe it is a step in the right direction. Any large body with so many members to point in one direction (think Congress, think UN, etc) means reforms are slow and incrementally small, but that doesn't mean they don't happen at some pace.
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MU82

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Re: Major NCAA Changes: Agents, Returns If Not Drafted
« Reply #22 on: August 09, 2018, 09:26:33 AM »
I'd like to give the NCAA credit for taking a first step in what will be a multiple-year, multiple-step evolution.

But I'd also like to think I'd have a chance with Scarlett Johansson. (Just a joke, Mrs. 82; you're all the woman I can handle!)

Seriously, this falls so short of any real reform that it's laughable. I like brew's breakdown.

Even those drafted and even those who didn't attend the combine should be able to return to school, and restricting agents to some undefined "elite" is as dopey as it gets.

Should end transfers having to sit out a year, too.
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MomofMUltiples

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Re: Major NCAA Changes: Agents, Returns If Not Drafted
« Reply #23 on: August 09, 2018, 11:42:15 AM »
In addition to everything said here about how the NCAA swung and missed, I think there are some questions for teams.  Is the team required to hold a scholarship open for the guy who declares for the draft, in case he decides to come back?  What does this do for teams - those decisions will get made in late June or early July, when most teams are already doing summer workouts.  Does this mean that the so-called "elite" players will wait even later to choose schools?  The deadline was in place for a reason - so that coaches would know in May what spots they had open.

What happens when the NBA takes kids right out of high school?  We saw toward the end how many high schoolers declared and then didn't get picked.  For the record, I think guys who thought they were good enough to get drafted out of high school but weren't should be allowed to go to college.  If they do that, is there a minimum stay imposed, like NCAA baseball?  Should the NBA have an early high school draft for teams that want to draft high schoolers in the first round (If you pick you forfeit your first round selection in the regular draft - or not, depending on how they want to play it), so undrafted high school kids can pick schools and get oriented along with other teammates?  I can see how all of this will really screw up team formation for college coaches. 

Yes, change is hard - but bad change is just stupid.
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GGGG

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Re: Major NCAA Changes: Agents, Returns If Not Drafted
« Reply #24 on: August 09, 2018, 11:43:46 AM »
Yes, change is hard - but bad change is just stupid.


That is an awesome statement.