Hank Raymonds

[stlwarrior]

Who can talk about his head coaching years at MU?

Did he do a good job?  Why did he only coach for 6 years?

[larrym]

That's a little before my time.  However I can tell you that he only lasted six years because  it was feared that Rick Majerus would get the Wisconsin job.  Obviously Raymonds had thoughts of stepping down anyway or it wouldn't have been an issue.  So Hank left the bench and Majerus took over for 3 years before leaving for the Bucks.  The Wisconsin job went to Ken Anderson, then ultimately to Steve Yoder.

I don't remember when Hank became AD, but he was AD until about 1987 when Bill Cords was brought in.  Now that I've typed all this, I bet you can find some more information in the wiki.  http://wiki.muscoop.com/doku.php/men_s_basketball/hank_raymonds

[bilsu]

Hank suffered in comparison to AL. He had a team capable of defending the 1977 title, but lossed the first game in the 1978 tournament when a Miami-Ohio player got knocked down by a Whitehead elbow. The refs threw Whitehead out of the game and Raymonds got called for a technical. Our 10 point lead evaporated and we lost in overtime and finished with a 24-4. Then he lost his big recruiting targets Scooter McCray to Louisville and Mark Aguire to DePaul. With the graduation of Butch Lee, Ulice Payne, Jerome Whitehead, Gary Rosenberger and Jim Boylan the team was left with little experience.  His first recruiting class included two guards from Illinois and Oliver Lee from Florida. The guards never amounted to anything. Oliver Lee was a top 30 player. His second team finished 22-9 and loss to DePaul in the NCAA tournament after blowing a second half lead. The team had Bernard Toone, Robert Byrd, Oliver Lee, Sam Worthen, Michael Wilson, and Dean Marquardt. His third team finished 18-9, which ended MU's streak of 20 win seasons. Team failed to win 20 games, because prior to start of season sophomre center Dean Marquardt was seriously injured in a trafic accident. I think his girl friend was killed in the accident. Dean recovered enough to play that season, but was not as good as he would have been and never achived the expected stardom. His fourth season he was 20-11, fifth season he was 23-9, and last season 19-10. I was disappointed when he handed the team over to Majerus, because I was a Raymonds fan. Raymond's had gone a long way into restoring the talent level at Marquette. He had several top 30 high school recruits on the team. Doc Rivers, whose recruiting was credited to Majerus, Mandy Johnson, Dwayne Johnson and Kerry Trotter. He also had recruited a center from out east who was also considered a top 30 player. This would have given Majerus a top 30 high school player at every position on his first team. However, River's decided to turn pro and Majerus refused to play the center, because he was overweight, and the center transferred. I think he ended up at Rutgers and did not become a star. The team was on an upward trend under Raymonds and turned back down under Majerus. Majerus was young, impatient, constantly criticised by the press and jumped ship after three years. This started the Dukiet era, which turned into a real diasater. Part of Dukiet's disaster was due to the fact that the talent level he inherited from Majerus was significantly lower than the talent level Majerus received from Raymonds.

[Pardner]

Bilsu pretty much nailed it...just to add, MU was in the hunt for Ralph Sampson, Sam Bowie and Joe Wolf under Hank.  Tony Davis, a recruit with OLee, was actually a McD AA.  People forget that Aguirre, who was the best college player I ever saw, would have come here if Al stayed.  Walter Downing went to DePaul before transferring here with Rick.  Rick taught Doc and Walter at Al's camp.  The overweight center from out east was Lloyd (Load) Moore.

[mu-rara]

Hank Couldn't keep Lloyd out of the McDs on 25th and Wisconsin

[warriormall82]

Wow having been there during Hank's time let me assure you most people feel a little differently. Very few people have done more for or been a better representative of MU than Hank, he was an extremely knowlegeable bball person, one who had many other coaches coming to him to be taught different coaching theories, however as a head coach he was not good and things were getting worse, he was absolutely awful as an in game coach did not make quick decisions and had no ability to adapt intragame. As a recruiter he was quickly losing touch with the kids and as a result Rick and others did almost all of the recruiting and Hank was not the closer that other coaches were.
   When he left coaching he was still the AD and that more than anything else is why we went into a prolonged slump. The game had changed and Rick knew it he wanted a much bigger recruiting budget Hank felt that we could just continue as before did not see that BE had cut off a large section of our recruiting area, teams now were visiting more than just once recruiting became much more competitive and Hank was stuck in the old school way of doing things. It was Rick's inability to get more money for recruiting budget and more money for asst. coaches more than any other thing that led to Rick leaving. The hiring of Dukiet was another absolute disaster and to top it all off Hank ended up giving everything that Rick wanted to Duk, who almost single handedly ruined our program.
  Hank was a very big positive in the history of MU, but his head coaching was far from good.
 

[Untucked]

bilsu's summary of Raymonds missed the mark on the recruiting and level of talent. Hank was never a recruiter. He was a practice coach. He was not a good game coach. He was the perfect Asst. under Al.  He inherited a great program and it deteriorated from there. Majerus was the major recruiter during Raymonds' tenure and during his own.

Tony Davis was NOT a top 30 player.

[bma725]

Tony Davis, a recruit with OLee, was actually a McD AA. 

No he wasn't.  Only 3 McDonald's All Americans have ever come to MU.  Doc Rivers, Kerry Trotter and Walter Downing. 

[Nukem2]

As I recall, Tony davis made the Top 150 for one guru back then.  Otherwise, he was pretty much ranked 200 to 500.  TD was just a guy and his career showed that.  His son Travon however had a nice career at UW-Madison.

[Tulsa Warrior]

I think you nailed it..... Raymonds was a great practice coach and gameplan developer.  He was a great compliment to Al.  Al would not have had the record he did without Hank.  No way.

Raymonds....non recruiter closer.....weak or slow game situation adjustment.....not an AD for changing times.

Majerius....too young.....no institutional support.....

Dukiet Disaster City.......

[Pardner]

As I recall, Tony davis made the Top 150 for one guru back then.  Otherwise, he was pretty much ranked 200 to 500.  TD was just a guy and his career showed that.  His son Travon however had a nice career at UW-Madison.

Mods feel free to delete but a link to an article on the other site on TD.  Says he was 37th ranked in Street and Smith and was a High School AA (not McD sorry).  Point is, Hank could recruit--just not at Al's level.  TD was not a top player in the end.  Very limited

http://marquette.scout.com/2/586203.html

[warriormall82]

Pardner almost of all the recruiting was done by Rick and others, I knew Doc pretty well and we talked about that he was primarily recruited by Rick and a teacher in Bus law believe me although once at school they respected Hank he could not relate to them during recruiting and this was used very much against  us.

[Pardner]

Pardner almost of all the recruiting was done by Rick and others, I knew Doc pretty well and we talked about that he was primarily recruited by Rick and a teacher in Bus law believe me although once at school they respected Hank he could not relate to them during recruiting and this was used very much against  us.

As I said earlier, Rick, Doc and Walter went back to Al's camp days...in fact, the story goes, that Rick gave Doc his nickname.  I saw Doc in hs when he was a sophomore jump over a kid and dunk it.  The kid he jumped over was a 6'9" forward who played four year's at Stanford.  Amazing.

My point on Hank is not to say he was this great recruiter...but he, as head coach (which is who kids ultimately pick), was still attracting top national talent (not Al talent granted--and not debating Rick's role as the lead recruiter).   I think we benefited with Rick as the lead, knowing that Hank was only going to coach for so long, and that Rick was in line.  But, the big names were visiting, he inked Schlundt and Marquardt from WI , Green, Worthen, DJohnson from NY, Wilson from VA, Marotta from PA, Lee from FL, etc.  Hank did okay with Al...and his teams were consistently ranked when he was head coach and on national TV.  When Rick took over, look what happened to the talent pool.  Maybe Hank deserves some props as the main guy, instead of the second fiddle to Al that folks remember?