British Open Thread

[Goose]

Tower

I agree Whistling might be on outside looking in. It really is unfortunate because I believe Whistling is a far greater challenge in May versus August. I am sure the PGA does not want to roll the dice on iffy weather, but I think a cool, windy Whistling would be fun to watch.

[rocket surgeon]

When it comes to hosting majors, the course is only one factor.   Surrounding infrastructure,  ability to accommodate hospitality tents, move 100K fans every day, nearby accommodations.  I was surprised Erin Hills pulled it off.   Merion struggled with it.   Arcadia Bluffs would be a great course to host a tourney from a purely golf standpoint, but it could not handle the rest.  Bellrieve can.

those are a few of the reasons why, i believe, sentry world hasn't hosted more stuff

[🏀]

Oakland hills is closing for two years. With the PGA moving to May, the Midwest is going to be tricky, as will the northeast.  Whistling straits in May? Hazeltine?   Eek.

Absolute ace point there. Never really thought about how the May move in regards to weather. Like Goose says, I think Straits needs to be played regardless. Hazeltine might be in a bit of trouble.

I think it's criminal that the Chicago/Milwaukee market goes this season without a PGA stop.

[tower912]

Absolute ace point there. Never really thought about how the May move in regards to weather. Like Goose says, I think Straits needs to be played regardless. Hazeltine might be in a bit of trouble.

I think it's criminal that the Chicago/Milwaukee market goes this season without a PGA stop.

Des Moines, Columbus, Akron.  PGA tour stops.   The seniors and the ladies are far more frequently in the Midwest.

[🏀]

Des Moines, Columbus, Akron.  PGA tour stops.   The seniors and the ladies are far more frequently in the Midwest.

I knew you would counter with seniors and ladies! Don't forget about the senior ladies though.

[tower912]

I volunteered at an LPGA event a few years ago.   Educational, both from watching the logistics of making an event come together, and figuring out how the lady professionals hit the ball so far.   (timing, tempo, hitting the center of the club face).    I volunteered years before that at a Senior PGA event.    Grumpy old men.     Who hit amazing shots that I can only dream of. 

[MU82]

Tiger WAS good, more like incredible, for the game.  I would argue he is only good for network ratings now.  Golf is strongest when there is a crop of great players that fans are interested in and follow and appreciate.  The Tiger obsession, when its very obvious its not 2005 anymore, hurts golf overall more than it helps it.  I'm sure plenty will disagree with me, but unless he starts winning consistently again, he's just a sideshow that ruins a lot of golf coverage.

I think I agree with your overall thesis, but Tiger doesn't have to be 2005 Tiger any more to make his mark legitimately.

He just has to seriously contend on the weekends to be more than a sideshow. I mean, he certainly wasn't just a sideshow at the British.

[JWags85]

I think I agree with your overall thesis, but Tiger doesn't have to be 2005 Tiger any more to make his mark legitimately.

He just has to seriously contend on the weekends to be more than a sideshow. I mean, he certainly wasn't just a sideshow at the British.

Agreed. He was in the hunt/in the lead on the weekend.  I was speaking more to the lead up as well as coverage during the US Open and Masters where he was never a factor.

[rocket surgeon]

Just having tiger in the hunt, in the conversations on saturdays and sundays is Good for the game.  It’s also good for humanity showing us that there is forgiveness left in parts,of our society. Tiger is much much more approachable, accessible, more at ease and humble.  His past is his past.  Actions mean something.  Doing the next right thing means something and it’s showing and it’s paying off. 

  Some of the guys who’ve golfed with tiger are in awe that of how he handles the pressure and the crowds.  Specifically the constant noise or even anticipation of it during a golf swing.  His level of concentration has got to be amazing.  They’ve remarked many times, how many strokes the crowd actually costs him

[MU82]

  Some of the guys who’ve golfed with tiger are in awe that of how he handles the pressure and the crowds.  Specifically the constant noise or even anticipation of it during a golf swing.  His level of concentration has got to be amazing.  They’ve remarked many times, how many strokes the crowd actually costs him

I was in awe of how well Molinari handled the crowds Sunday. You know they were going nuts when Tiger took the lead and again when he birdied 14. Molinari just went about his business and made every single shot he had to make. It was a very impressive display of clutch golf.

[MU82]

AP's Doug Ferguson, one of the best golf writers in the world has an interesting take on Tiger's place in today's PGA landscape:

http://www.theoaklandpress.com/article/OP/20180724/SPORTS/180729863

Disclosure: Doug is a friend of mine. But despite that, he usually has good judgment!

[JWags85]

AP's Doug Ferguson, one of the best golf writers in the world has an interesting take on Tiger's place in today's PGA landscape:

http://www.theoaklandpress.com/article/OP/20180724/SPORTS/180729863

Disclosure: Doug is a friend of mine. But despite that, he usually has good judgment!

Fantastic article.  Totally agree.  He's Jordan on the Wizards at this point.  He can still play and has ability, but he's not putting the fear of god in anyone anymore, and there are plenty of people who are his equals, and multiple better than him.  If he goes on a run and wins a couple tournaments, it might start to creep back. 

[Goose]

MU82

I have heard the Jordan/Wizard comparison several times over the past month or so. At this point, I think it is way to early to call anything on where he is going from here. Jordan was not going to will himself a crown in DC, but way too early to know what Tiger can or cannot do.

IMO, the Tiger comeback has surpassed all expectations I had for this year. He very well might have more in the tank than Jordan in DC. Once again, this season he only played the best courses and best fields and fared extremely well. I would not be a bit surprised if he was top ten in the world a year from now.

[MU82]

A lot of people think Jordan was a total failure with the Wizards.

At the midway point of his first season, he was legitimately being talked about as an MVP candidate. But he got old fast, his body betrayed him like never before, and it didn't end very well.

Golf isn't basketball. Tiger has many years left as a top competitor. Frankly, I'd be surprised if he DOESN'T win another major or two.

He just isn't the best in the world any more, that's all. And he never will be the best again. Too many players with more game than he has, and they do not quake in their boots over the thought of him.

[GGGG]

Another major or two?  He’s 42 years old. He’d be in the top 10 of oldest major winners since 1960 if he won now.

I’d be surprised if he won another. Shocked if more that that.

[mu03eng]

A lot of people think Jordan was a total failure with the Wizards.

At the midway point of his first season, he was legitimately being talked about as an MVP candidate. But he got old fast, his body betrayed him like never before, and it didn't end very well.

Golf isn't basketball. Tiger has many years left as a top competitor. Frankly, I'd be surprised if he DOESN'T win another major or two.

He just isn't the best in the world any more, that's all. And he never will be the best again. Too many players with more game than he has, and they do not quake in their boots over the thought of him.

Honestly, I think part of the issue is there aren't enough dominant players in the game. There was just something so mesmerizing about watching Tiger dominate on Sundays to the point of other players collapsing. Its largely a crap shoot these days who's going to be in contention and like it or not the casual viewer needs to have 2 or 3 players that are always in it to be interested.

I mean Speith had a great run but hasn't been consistent since DJ can dominate a major, if it's just the right course, Rory and Ricky are flash without substance, etc etc. I appreciate Molinari winning the Open and the golf he played but the viewers they need to bring in want big names to win frequently

[GGGG]

Honestly, I think part of the issue is there aren't enough dominant players in the game. There was just something so mesmerizing about watching Tiger dominate on Sundays to the point of other players collapsing. Its largely a crap shoot these days who's going to be in contention and like it or not the casual viewer needs to have 2 or 3 players that are always in it to be interested.

I mean Speith had a great run but hasn't been consistent since DJ can dominate a major, if it's just the right course, Rory and Ricky are flash without substance, etc etc. I appreciate Molinari winning the Open and the golf he played but the viewers they need to bring in want big names to win frequently

Not only that but Tiger was flash AND substance. He pumped his fist. He swung hard without remorse. Let’s face it - he looked different.  I remember watching him for the first time at the US Amateur and thinking “well this is different.”  In an era of white guys laying up and barely showing emotion, he stood out.

The biggest problem is that golf didn’t take advantage of his popularity. The game could have taken steps to be more accessible like when Arnie was popular. Instead it went the other way.

[mu03eng]

The biggest problem is that golf didn’t take advantage of his popularity. The game could have taken steps to be more accessible like when Arnie was popular. Instead it went the other way.

THIS. Golf looked at what Tiger was doing/opening doors for and said no thanks we want to keep things the way they are and now they are paying for it (interestingly Adam Sandler of all people got it i.e. Happy Gilmore).

Golf needs to find a way to make the game more enjoyable/accessible for people to play for fun while also making their stars more interesting/dominating in the sport.

[GGGG]

THIS. Golf looked at what Tiger was doing/opening doors for and said no thanks we want to keep things the way they are and now they are paying for it (interestingly Adam Sandler of all people got it i.e. Happy Gilmore).

I don't think those who ruled golf were intentionally exclusive.  I just think that course developers all shot for the high end.  The brought in the big names to design.  They made the courses long (which requires good equipment) and expensive.  Of course it got over-saturated and a bunch of these places went under.

Very little was done on the lower end.  I do know a guy who opened up a par 30 course in the early 90s, and his business is still humming along.  It's not going to win any awards and it's geared more toward the duffers, but it's a viable business.

I still think there are a lot of munis that are overlooked as well.  Milwaukee County's courses are pretty decent, but the fees are getting up there.

[MU82]

Honestly, I think part of the issue is there aren't enough dominant players in the game. There was just something so mesmerizing about watching Tiger dominate on Sundays to the point of other players collapsing. Its largely a crap shoot these days who's going to be in contention and like it or not the casual viewer needs to have 2 or 3 players that are always in it to be interested.

I mean Speith had a great run but hasn't been consistent since DJ can dominate a major, if it's just the right course, Rory and Ricky are flash without substance, etc etc. I appreciate Molinari winning the Open and the golf he played but the viewers they need to bring in want big names to win frequently

I guess it's true that there aren't enough dominant players in the game, but at the same time there are so very many great, great, great players now that it would be difficult to do what Tiger did. He was great, but who were his main "foils"? Even Mickelson ... the two of them just about never went at it like Jack and Arnie did (with Player, Trevino and others back then, too). Sergio was supposed to be Tiger's rival for the ages ... but then became a choker and whiner.

I do think it would help golf if Speith or Rory or somebody else would become dominant -- and then lock horns with other near-dominant players. And yes, it would be nice if they had some pizzazz, too.

[MU82]

Another major or two?  He’s 42 years old. He’d be in the top 10 of oldest major winners since 1960 if he won now.

I’d be surprised if he won another. Shocked if more that that.

Today's 42 isn't what it was in Nicklaus' day. These guys are physical. They train hard. They aren't fat. They don't smoke. The top pros have personal trainers, personal chiropractors, personal masseuses. They travel in luxury.

If he stays healthy - perhaps a big "if" for somebody with his health history - Tiger definitely has the game to win majors. He showed it not only in the Open but in other events this year.

I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if he wins another major. If he stays healthy, I expect him to.

Two ... I admit that's asking a lot. But hell, Zach Johnson - who is 42 like Tiger - has won two majors and has contended for several others, including last week's British.

[StillAWarrior]

Another major or two?  He’s 42 years old. He’d be in the top 10 of oldest major winners since 1960 if he won now.

I’d be surprised if he won another. Shocked if more that that.

Today's 42 isn't what it was in Nicklaus' day. These guys are physical. They train hard. They aren't fat. They don't smoke. The top pros have personal trainers, personal chiropractors, personal masseuses. They travel in luxury.

If he stays healthy - perhaps a big "if" for somebody with his health history - Tiger definitely has the game to win majors. He showed it not only in the Open but in other events this year.

I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if he wins another major. If he stays healthy, I expect him to.

Two ... I admit that's asking a lot. But hell, Zach Johnson - who is 42 like Tiger - has won two majors and has contended for several others, including last week's British.

Adding to that...If he stays healthy (I know, I know), I personally see no reason to be surprised to see Tiger be "top 10" in something.  Hasn't he been top 10 in pretty much everything he's ever done in golf?  Why wouldn't be be top 10 in oldest majors winners?

[Golden Avalanche]

Honestly, I think part of the issue is there aren't enough dominant players in the game. There was just something so mesmerizing about watching Tiger dominate on Sundays to the point of other players collapsing. Its largely a crap shoot these days who's going to be in contention and like it or not the casual viewer needs to have 2 or 3 players that are always in it to be interested.

I mean Speith had a great run but hasn't been consistent since DJ can dominate a major, if it's just the right course, Rory and Ricky are flash without substance, etc etc. I appreciate Molinari winning the Open and the golf he played but the viewers they need to bring in want big names to win frequently

Jordan Spieth won the 2017 Open Championship. He finished top 30 at the 2017 PGA. He finished third in the 2018 Masters. He missed the cut at the 2018 US Open. He finished ninth at the 2018 Open Championship. There are, literally, hundreds and hundreds of professional golfers who would sell their soul for this kind of inconsistency.

Rory McIlroy is 29 with four majors amongst his 20-odd tournament titles, a multiple Ryder Cup champion, has been player of the year in both America and Europe, and has won the money title in both America and Europe. There are, literally, thousands and thousands of professional golfers who would sell their soul for this kind of substance-less career.

[Goose]

I think the biggest thing to keep in my mind is how difficult it is to be the best player in the world for a long period of time. If Tiger can get back to top 10 player in the world and stay there for 3-4 years, he could be the best player in the world over those 3-4 years. Guys hit #1 and then last a very short period of time.

I do not believe Tiger will ever see the dominance he once had, but if healthy, I do believe he can get back to being the best in the game. Again, if healthy, I think he does have 1-2, maybe more, majors in him.

[🏀]

Jordan Spieth won the 2017 Open Championship. He finished top 30 at the 2017 PGA. He finished third in the 2018 Masters. He missed the cut at the 2018 US Open. He finished ninth at the 2018 Open Championship. There are, literally, hundreds and hundreds of professional golfers who would sell their soul for this kind of inconsistency.

Rory McIlroy is 29 with four majors amongst his 20-odd tournament titles, a multiple Ryder Cup champion, has been player of the year in both America and Europe, and has won the money title in both America and Europe. There are, literally, thousands and thousands of professional golfers who would sell their soul for this kind of substance-less career.

To add Rickie is a top 10 machine, guy just can't win. If we didn't value wins so much, lots of players would love his career.