Andy Katz top returning players for next season

[MU82]

I was never a Jamil "hater." I just thought he underachieved significantly at Marquette except for a handful of games.

Thankfully, one of those games (or at least the end of one of those games) was Davidson in the 2013 NCAAs or else there would have never been an Elite 8 appearance.

And yes, I fully admit that I am surprised that he was able to receive NBA regular-season minutes. Buycks, too.

[THRILLHO]

I can totally see him on the back end of an NBA bench as an energy guy, pesky defender that sneaks in a few threes per game and distributes. Sure, he might not distribute much now but that is because he is the one being distributed to, he is the top option. With practice he would serve just fine as a shoot-first backup PG, IMO.

This made me think of a comparison which had me a little convinced there might be a chance, Matthew Dellavedova, undersized shooter who plays hard on D but with clear deficiencies.

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

This made me think of a comparison which had me a little convinced there might be a chance, Matthew Dellavedova, undersized shooter who plays hard on D but with clear deficiencies.

He's 6-4.

[GGGG]

Markus has to be a point guard. He isn’t an end of the bench shooter. He’s too small.

His ceiling, and this may be too high, is Patty Mills.

[GGGG]

Also the fact that Jamil has made it should show you how important size and length are in today’s NBA. Yeah he worked hard to develop his skills, but he always had the NBA body. That’s a guy who can be an end of the bench player who brings energy, defense and hit an occasional shot.

[real chili 83]

Also the fact that Jamil has made it should show you how important size and length are in today’s NBA. Yeah he worked hard to develop his skills, but he always had the NBA body. That’s a guy who can be an end of the bench player who brings energy, defense and hit an occasional shot.

 Curious if anyone knows how much Jamil has made so far?

[GGGG]

Curious if anyone knows how much Jamil has made so far?

Low six figures. He’s received a total of $100k for his NBA work and smaller amounts for his G League work. Not much really.

[Herman Cain]

Low six figures. He’s received a total of $100k for his NBA work and smaller amounts for his G League work. Not much really.

He maxed out on his 45 NBA days on his two way contract last year with the Clippers. So between G league salary and NBA rookie minimum proration he made about 275K.  The max for a two way contract this year is 385k. 

[GGGG]

He maxed out on his 45 NBA days on his two way contract last year with the Clippers. So between G league salary and NBA rookie minimum proration he made about 275K.  The max for a two way contract this year is 385k. 

But I thought he was waived in January.

[Herman Cain]

But I thought he was waived in January.

He was waived in January after he used up the maximum 45 days. The Clippers did not want to lose him but they had no choice because they had no cap room to sign him . Lakers were going to sign Jamil to a 10 day deal but backed off when the Herpes lawsuit was made public. . He was then picked up by the Ft Wayne Mad Ants and finished off the season in G League. . The two way contracts pay you at G League salary while a player is the G League and prorated rookie minimum while the player is in the NBA.  So essentially Jamil maxed out on both provisions . The essence of these two way contracts is to pay them enough to keep the borderline players in the US in case they are needed. Jamil then went to the italian league for one month after the G League season was over . 

 

[THRILLHO]

He's 6-4.

lol ok so much for that comparison. Is it fair to say he plays smaller than that?

[GGGG]

He was waived in January after he used up the maximum 45 days. The Clippers did not want to lose him but they had no choice because they had no cap room to sign him . Lakers were going to sign Jamil to a 10 day deal but backed off when the Herpes lawsuit was made public. . He was then picked up by the Ft Wayne Mad Ants and finished off the season in G League. . The two way contracts pay you at G League salary while a player is the G League and prorated rookie minimum while the player is in the NBA.  So essentially Jamil maxed out on both provisions . The essence of these two way contracts is to pay them enough to keep the borderline players in the US in case they are needed. Jamil then went to the italian league for one month after the G League season was over . 

 

Ok thanks. Is he under contract for this year?

[Mr. Sand-Knit]

It was meant as an example of how we tend to nitpick and over-analyze our players' deficiencies, especially with respect to their making the league. I'm sure there were a handful of people that were all-in on Jamil making the league, but my recollection was that the majority thought he would never spend a minute on an NBA floor. And yet, here he is. And there are other examples.

3-4 years ago, if we polled Scoop on whether we would ever simultaneously play two 5'10" unathletic, no-defense shooting guards 30+ minutes per game within the next century, the vast majority would have said impossible. The well-studied among us might have given an example or two of that happening in recent history, purely based on the size comparison. I'm just saying that, when it comes to Markus (and even AR), you can downgrade him all you want in the evaluation but in the end, you put him on the floor because he puts points on the board better than almost anyone else. I'm not saying the NBA will be the exact same for him, but purely using precedent and his lack of this/that doesn't really change that he has something to offer that most don't. He is one of the very elite shooters in all of college basketball. I can totally see him on the back end of an NBA bench as an energy guy, pesky defender that sneaks in a few threes per game and distributes. Sure, he might not distribute much now but that is because he is the one being distributed to, he is the top option. With practice he would serve just fine as a shoot-first backup PG, IMO.

Completely agree with this post.  My only concern id Markus is an absolutely horrible ball handler.  He has a tremendous way to go.  In order to distribute it you also have to handle it.

[brewcity77]

It was meant as an example of how we tend to nitpick and over-analyze our players' deficiencies, especially with respect to their making the league. I'm sure there were a handful of people that were all-in on Jamil making the league, but my recollection was that the majority thought he would never spend a minute on an NBA floor. And yet, here he is. And there are other examples.

I'm not sure about this. I think often we overvalue our own players. I think guys expected quite a few MU guys to play more in the NBA than they have. Early on, I think most expected Jamil to be a success in the NBA. It was his inability to take over at the college level his junior and senior seasons that changed that line of thought. Guys also seemed to think players like DJO, Vander Blue, Davante Gardner, Jerel McNeal, Lazar Hayward, and Dominic James had more of a future in the NBA than reality ended up giving them.

We've had a few surprises. Not sure Wes really surprised any Marquette fans, but no one expected JFB to develop into an All-Star and few thought Dwight Buycks would get a sniff. Looking at this current roster, people make a case for Markus and I've seen claims of Sam as well. I imagine there are people that can envision Jamal Cain or Greg Elliott getting a sniff, and it wouldn't surprise me to hear people making cases for Joey Hauser, Brendan Bailey, and others depending on how the next couple seasons go.

[Galway Eagle]

I'm not sure about this. I think often we overvalue our own players. I think guys expected quite a few MU guys to play more in the NBA than they have. Early on, I think most expected Jamil to be a success in the NBA. It was his inability to take over at the college level his junior and senior seasons that changed that line of thought. Guys also seemed to think players like DJO, Vander Blue, Davante Gardner, Jerel McNeal, Lazar Hayward, and Dominic James had more of a future in the NBA than reality ended up giving them.

We've had a few surprises. Not sure Wes really surprised any Marquette fans, but no one expected JFB to develop into an All-Star and few thought Dwight Buycks would get a sniff. Looking at this current roster, people make a case for Markus and I've seen claims of Sam as well. I imagine there are people that can envision Jamal Cain or Greg Elliott getting a sniff, and it wouldn't surprise me to hear people making cases for Joey Hauser, Brendan Bailey, and others depending on how the next couple seasons go.

This is certainly true. I think the hope for sam is because of the run Novak had. I could see Cain, especially if he continues working on that outside shot. Bailey would be shocking as he'd be 23/24 by the time he's the primary option.

[Marcus92]

Guys also seemed to think players like DJO, Vander Blue, Davante Gardner, Jerel McNeal, Lazar Hayward, and Dominic James had more of a future in the NBA than reality ended up giving them.

DJO, Vander and Jerel weren't hard to explain — all undersized shooting guards for the NBA level. While I loved Davante, I never thought he was an NBA player. Hard to know why Lazar fell out of the league so soon, but lots of players do. It's incredibly competitive.

Dominic might have had the greatest potential as a pro. But the broken foot cost him at the worst possible time in his career.

[Galway Eagle]

DJO, Vander and Jerel weren't hard to explain — all undersized shooting guards for the NBA level. While I loved Davante, I never thought he was an NBA player. Hard to know why Lazar fell out of the league so soon, but lots of players do. It's incredibly competitive.

Dominic might have had the greatest potential as a pro. But the broken foot cost him at the worst possible time in his career.

I personally think Lazar was put into the wrong systems. I don't see why he couldn't have been what Crowder is.

[Its DJOver]

I think there's also this mentality that players are going to the same type of players once they get to the pros.  Jamil shot 32% from 3 his Senior year, yet if you only watched the TBT you would think that it would have been significantly higher.  I don't think he'll ever have more than a bench role but if he spends his next two collegiate years improving, Markus will be on a NBA roster.  He is the same height as former 1st round pick Shane Larkin, and has a significantly higher ceiling IMO, solely based on his shooting ability.  Neither can really guard anyone and I don't think either will have a terribly long NBA career, but Larkin signed a 1.5 million dollar contract, and that ain't bad for a 21 year old.   

[brewcity77]

DJO, Vander and Jerel weren't hard to explain — all undersized shooting guards for the NBA level. While I loved Davante, I never thought he was an NBA player. Hard to know why Lazar fell out of the league so soon, but lots of players do. It's incredibly competitive.

Dominic might have had the greatest potential as a pro. But the broken foot cost him at the worst possible time in his career.

I'm not saying they aren't hard to explain in retrospect, but I think most MU fans expected them to have more of a NBA future, even if it was in the 7th to 10th man on the bench. I didn't think Davante would get there, but there were some that thought he could be a Dejuan Blair type. We may see all our players faults, but I think we also tend to overemphasize their strengths.

[tower912]

I tend to undersell MU players' NBA prospects.    I never thought Davante would get there.   Too slow, one-dimensional.    I thought Jamil  had the physical gifts, but not the mental toughness when he was at MU.    Vander was a 2g who couldn't shoot.    I always thought that he should have stayed for his senior year and played the point, a la Tony Smith.    That was his only hope.    Buycks surprised me.    He put in a crap ton of work after he left MU.    DJO and Jerel were generously listed at 6'2 and the number of successful 6'2 shooting guards in the league is miniscule.      Lazar came in as a SG, played 4-5 out of desperation, but in the end was a 6'4 1/2 swing man.     Jae and Jimmy both played with a ferocity on both ends and showed they could handle the ball and guard multiple positions.   Wes was in their mold, MU fans just didn't see it because he spent his first 3 years playing 3rd wheel.

I don't think Sam or Markus will ever start in the league.   Nor do I think they will be drafted.    I think both may play in the league, but on the fringes.      I sure do appreciate what they do for Marquette.   

[Herman Cain]

Ok thanks. Is he under contract for this year?

He is a free agent. He has a workout with the Bucks coming up. 

[wadesworld]

I'm not saying they aren't hard to explain in retrospect, but I think most MU fans expected them to have more of a NBA future, even if it was in the 7th to 10th man on the bench. I didn't think Davante would get there, but there were some that thought he could be a Dejuan Blair type. We may see all our players faults, but I think we also tend to overemphasize their strengths.

One poster even believed that Davante would take Dirk to school...

[brewcity77]

One poster even believed that Davante would take Dirk to school...

We also had a couple that thought Magic Dawson was going to make the NBA. Hell...some are still championing him because he's a G-League backup.