Why Elliott can be our PG of the future.

[lohaus]

Greg's position is guard.  I think people's perception of a true point guard is a player that gets the ball and somehow can single handedly break a press against 3 players all by himself and throw a fantastic no look pass or ally-oop for a dunk.  While that would be fantastic to have, I don't think there are that many of those types of players out there.

I would much rather have someone like Greg be able to make the correct pass against the press to break it.  I would rather him be a player that someone else mentioned brings the ball down, makes a first pass to the wing, cuts hard / sets a pick and initiates the offense.  I don't see many fantastic one pass dunks in college. . . at least not at Marquette.

So the question in my head is can Greg dribble the ball up one on one with pressure, make a wing pass, and cut through hard to initiate?  With two hands, yes.  Can Greg make the correct pass on a press break to an open guy? Yes.

I hear quite a bit mentioned on press break.  Next year we are going to have a taller overall lineup with Sam, Joey, Sacar being a more available target to help with press break.  All are skilled at dribbling and passing.  It isn't like passing it to Joey on press break is going to be something like passing it to Greg Clausen or Richard Shaw at 1/2 court to 3/4 court to make something happen.  I am dating myself with that reference to two big stiffs that played at Marquette.

I would rather not see a repeat of this season where Howard tries to dribble through the press to the sideline, gets cut off by two 6'4" to 6'7" Big East level guards, jumps, and tries to make a pass through the trap for a turnover/layup.  Now to me, that isn't point guard potential.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

For as much as we obsess over the press break, I'd be curious to see how we actually did statistically against the press compared to other programs. While we certainly weren't great, I have a suspicion that we were actually pretty average against it, we fans just like to remember the bad moments.

[Herman Cain]

Whether Greg Elliott is our PG next year remains to be seen. I do know that I want to see him with on the floor as much as possible no matter what role he is asked to do . The kid has a competitive attitude that is all about winning. He is a very unselfish team oriented player who makes things happen. He had the respect of the whole team this year, which is a very good sign .  I have said this before, I think he can be another Michael Wilson for MU.

[Class71]

Can someone explain why after 4 years our rebuilding program did not include a point guard or two?

[brewcity77]

Can someone explain why after 4 years our rebuilding program did not include a point guard or two?

Traci Carter and Andrew Rowsey in 2015, Markus Howard in 2016, tried for Quentin Grimes and Courtney Ramey in 2018. Carter left and Howard seems to be more a combo.

[rocket surgeon]

If the dude can grow and mature into the pg position, I'm all eyes and ears.  Can't just give it to him (Elliot) Unconditionally.

[tower912]

Can someone explain why after 4 years our rebuilding program did not include a point guard or two?

Why could Crean not land a decent PG while Yogi Ferrell was on the roster?    Sometimes, guys don't want to come and sit for a couple of years.   Also, we don't know that Greg isn't a PG.   We suspect it.   But I would really like to see him with two hands before making a definitive judgment. 

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

Why could Crean not land a decent PG while Yogi Ferrell was on the roster?    Sometimes, guys don't want to come and sit for a couple of years.

Two point guards can play together.  At least one needs some size for defensive purposes. Examples of 2 PG backcourts:

Jason Williams & Chris Duhon
Tyus Jones & Quinn Cook
Jalen Brunson & Phil Booth
Ryan Archidiacano & Jalen Brunson
Marcus Paige & Joel Berry

So it absolutely can be done.  And it can be successful.  Quite a few national titles won by the above list.  The Crean/Ferrell situation does not represent a concrete certainty that one PG prevents successfully recruiting a second PG.

[WarriorFan]

The person with the following stats is 6'5" and going to be a helluva point guard in the BEAST next year:
SEASON      MIN   FGM-FGA   FG%   3PM-3PA   3P%   FTM-FTA   FT%   REB   AST   BLK   STL   PF   TO   PTS
2017-18      29.3   4.7-9.8   .481   2.1-5.3   .401   1.9-2.7   .710   4.8   3.5   0.2   1.1   2.1   2.0   13.4
2016-17      25.5   3.0-6.5   .466   1.2-3.2   .365   1.6-2.3   .699   3.8   1.7   0.3   0.9   1.6   1.4   8.8
2015-16      9.3   0.8-2.6   .286   0.4-2.1   .176   0.0-0.0   .000   2.0   0.5   0.0   0.5   1.3   0.9   1.9

Greg's Freshman year was FAR better - and I think there are a lot of comparisons between these two.

Mars bar to whoever figure out first who is the comp.

[Its DJOver]

The person with the following stats is 6'5" and going to be a helluva point guard in the BEAST next year:
SEASON      MIN   FGM-FGA   FG%   3PM-3PA   3P%   FTM-FTA   FT%   REB   AST   BLK   STL   PF   TO   PTS
2017-18      29.3   4.7-9.8   .481   2.1-5.3   .401   1.9-2.7   .710   4.8   3.5   0.2   1.1   2.1   2.0   13.4
2016-17      25.5   3.0-6.5   .466   1.2-3.2   .365   1.6-2.3   .699   3.8   1.7   0.3   0.9   1.6   1.4   8.8
2015-16      9.3   0.8-2.6   .286   0.4-2.1   .176   0.0-0.0   .000   2.0   0.5   0.0   0.5   1.3   0.9   1.9

Greg's Freshman year was FAR better - and I think there are a lot of comparisons between these two.

Mars bar to whoever figure out first who is the comp.

DiVincenzo only played 8 games his freshman year so the comparison isn't exactly fair.

He also got hurt and redshirted in 15-16, so his RSFR numbers are better than Greg's true freshman numbers.

[Its DJOver]

I'm not saying that Greg will be our starting PG next year, but if you look at the roster composition, then it appears that he is being lined up for the job down the road.

18-19 guards:
Markus, Sacar, Greg, grad transfer.
Sacar has never played PG so I see him as the back up off the ball guard.  The grad transfer will be the starting PG. Markus will be the starting off the ball guard.  Greg should be the back up PG, getting at least 15mpg of running point.

19-20 guards:
Markus, Sacar, Greg, Freshman no be named later.
Markus and Sacar will be in the same roles.  The 19-20 season should be the one where we have a potential good postseason run.  The Seniors will include Markus, Sam, Sacar, and Ed.  I don't care how talented any potential freshman is, I wouldn't want him being the starting PG on that team, the jump from HS to college is just too big.  Going for another grad transfer would be a mistake IMO, because if we go back to back grad transfer PG it would imply an over-reliance on the grad transfer system.  In the 19-20 season Greg will be a Junior and will have just spent a year as the back up PG, he will be ready to be the man that runs the offense.  The only other scenario I see (without taking into account transfers that will likely happen) is if Wojo gets a grad transfer PG this year, and a traditional transfer PG who will sit out next year, and even in that case I think it would be a competition for the starting PG spot with the transfer and Greg, with any freshman being the third option.

[Jockey]

How hard is it to play PG? Is it the easiest position on the court to play?

Judging by many posts here, it would seem to be quite easy. Anybody can do it. Vander, Duane, Marcus, Haanif, Greg.


My feeling is that it is the most difficult position to play. Besides the skills required - ball handling, passing, vision, awareness, unselfishness, etc. - it takes a particular mindset as well.

But for whatever reasons, people seem to think that any guard can play the point. Just call him a PG and that is all there is to it. I think I am really gonna enjoy 4 years of Greg Elliot. He plays hard, can score, can play 'D'; he seems to be a hard worker. I could easily see him become my favorite player.

I just don't think he is a PG. For a few minutes a game here and there, yeah. I just don't think he can change everything he has always been and suddenly be a PG.

Maybe I will be proven wrong the next couple of years, but I don't think so.

[Its DJOver]

Judging by many posts here, it would seem to be quite easy. Anybody can do it. Vander, Duane, Marcus, Haanif, Greg.

Vander played alongside an adequate PG so he never needed to play PG.  Duane wanted to play PG, but for whatever reason Wojo didn't want him too.  Markus played PG for the national team, he'd do a fine job here as well, he would just do better off the ball.  Haanif couldn't, but I believe that he could have if he had two hands, he proved time and again that he could only go one direction.  12 months ago almost nobody thought that AR could develop into as good of a PG as he did.

My feeling is that it is the most difficult position to play. Besides the skills required - ball handling, passing, vision, awareness, unselfishness, etc. - it takes a particular mindset as well.

I expect Greg's ball handling to be improved once he has two hands again.  When you say passing, I assume you're thinking of the flashy passes that lead to wide open lay ups or alley-oops.  While these are nice to be able to do, they are not necessary to be an effective PG.  Greg is 4 inches taller than AR so his vision should be better.  As for awareness and unselfishness, I think the only players that really struggled there were Markus and Andrew, I thought Greg was fine in those categories.  Greg seems like a smart, team first mindset player, so he will do whatever it takes for the team to win.

Greg checks a lot of boxes IMO, and his mindset of always wanting to learn more/being involved and engaged in TO discussions leads me to believe that he will be fine as a PG.

[Pakuni]

I'm not saying that Greg will be our starting PG next year, but if you look at the roster composition, then it appears that he is being lined up for the job down the road.

18-19 guards:
Markus, Sacar, Greg, grad transfer.
Sacar has never played PG so I see him as the back up off the ball guard.  The grad transfer will be the starting PG. Markus will be the starting off the ball guard.  Greg should be the back up PG, getting at least 15mpg of running point.

19-20 guards:
Markus, Sacar, Greg, Freshman no be named later.
Markus and Sacar will be in the same roles.  The 19-20 season should be the one where we have a potential good postseason run.  The Seniors will include Markus, Sam, Sacar, and Ed. I don't care how talented any potential freshman is, I wouldn't want him being the starting PG on that team, the jump from HS to college is just too big.  Going for another grad transfer would be a mistake IMO, because if we go back to back grad transfer PG it would imply an over-reliance on the grad transfer system.  In the 19-20 season Greg will be a Junior and will have just spent a year as the back up PG, he will be ready to be the man that runs the offense.  The only other scenario I see (without taking into account transfers that will likely happen) is if Wojo gets a grad transfer PG this year, and a traditional transfer PG who will sit out next year, and even in that case I think it would be a competition for the starting PG spot with the transfer and Greg, with any freshman being the third option.

I think you're overstating this.
Marquette has success starting freshman PGs in the not-so-distant past (James, Miller). Other programs have won national titles starting freshmen at the point (Nova with Brunson, Duke with Tyus Jones, Kentucky with Marquis Teague, Cuse with Gerry McNamara).
Obviously it takes a really good player to step in and run the point right away, but MU is recruiting some top 50 talents at the position in 2019 (Carton, Hagans, Maxey), likely with the sales pitch that they'll have a chance to start right away. So don't rule it out, andthere's no reason to think having a freshman run the point hurts a team.

[Jockey]

Vander played alongside an adequate PG so he never needed to play PG.  Duane wanted to play PG, but for whatever reason Wojo didn't want him too.  Markus played PG for the national team, he'd do a fine job here as well, he would just do better off the ball.  Haanif couldn't, but I believe that he could have if he had two hands, he proved time and again that he could only go one direction.  12 months ago almost nobody thought that AR could develop into as good of a PG as he did.


I expect Greg's ball handling to be improved once he has two hands again.  When you say passing, I assume you're thinking of the flashy passes that lead to wide open lay ups or alley-oops.  While these are nice to be able to do, they are not necessary to be an effective PG.  Greg is 4 inches taller than AR so his vision should be better.  As for awareness and unselfishness, I think the only players that really struggled there were Markus and Andrew, I thought Greg was fine in those categories.  Greg seems like a smart, team first mindset player, so he will do whatever it takes for the team to win.

Greg checks a lot of boxes IMO, and his mindset of always wanting to learn more/being involved and engaged in TO discussions leads me to believe that he will be fine as a PG.

1. There was a reason Wojo didn't want Duane too play PG.

2. Marcus proved this year that he could not play PG. He was as bad against the press as any guard I remember at MU.

3. Haanif had no clue on how to play PG.

4. When I say passing, I am NOT referring to flashy passes that lead to wide open lay ups or alley-oops. I am talking about moving the ball and getting it to guys where they want to receive it. Try watching Chris Paul sometime. He does not rely on "fancy passes". I am talking about getting it into the post when a big gets position. I am talking about driving and dishing.

5. It is about skillset.

[MU82]

1. There was a reason Wojo didn't want Duane too play PG.

2. Marcus proved this year that he could not play PG. He was as bad against the press as any guard I remember at MU.

3. Haanif had no clue on how to play PG.

4. When I say passing, I am NOT referring to flashy passes that lead to wide open lay ups or alley-oops. I am talking about moving the ball and getting it to guys where they want to receive it. Try watching Chris Paul sometime. He does not rely on "fancy passes". I am talking about getting it into the post when a big gets position. I am talking about driving and dishing.

5. It is about skillset.

Mostly agree with what you're saying, jockey, but again ... one year ago, did you expect Rowsey to be one of the best PGs in the Big East?

With Elliott, we do not know if he can be any good. But we also do not know that he will be bad. Some claim to know, but they don't; mostly they fear.

Like most others here, I'd rather not have to find out if Elliott will be a good PG next season - at least not 30 mpg worth - but I'm going to keep an open mind if it happens.

Lockett and Katin helped teach me not to make snap judgments, and Rowsey far exceeded my expectations this past season. Heck, I've even softened on Heldt; he's slowly winning me over.

If it ends up being the situation, I'll keep an open mind on Elliott - and possible PG Markus, for that matter.

[Its DJOver]

1. There was a reason Wojo didn't want Duane too play PG.

2. Marcus proved this year that he could not play PG. He was as bad against the press as any guard I remember at MU.

3. Haanif had no clue on how to play PG.

4. When I say passing, I am NOT referring to flashy passes that lead to wide open lay ups or alley-oops. I am talking about moving the ball and getting it to guys where they want to receive it. Try watching Chris Paul sometime. He does not rely on "fancy passes". I am talking about getting it into the post when a big gets position. I am talking about driving and dishing.

5. It is about skillset.

1.  It could be that Duane's RSFR year, Derrick was the PG which allowed Duane to be an effective off the ball guard, Wojo saw this, and decided that Duane playing PG would not be best for the team.

2. If you do not think that Markus can improve, you must have been truly blown away by AR this year.  Markus can and will get better.

3. Haanif had high turnover numbers his freshman year, but they dropped as his assist numbers stayed consistent.  To me that shows improvement at being able to run point.  He just needed to be able to use both hands, and he couldn't.

4.  Greg was above average at moving the ball, my only complaint was that I wish he would have been more aggressive, knowing when to pass, and when to use a ball fake then drive is something that you learn with time.

5.  Can you not develop skills?  Greg will be here for 3 more years, I certainly hope he hasn't peaked.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

People on both sides of this argument have very odd ideas about what does and doesn't make a point guard.

[Jockey]

Mostly agree with what you're saying, jockey, but again ... one year ago, did you expect Rowsey to be one of the best PGs in the Big East?

With Elliott, we do not know if he can be any good. But we also do not know that he will be bad. Some claim to know, but they don't; mostly they fear.

Like most others here, I'd rather not have to find out if Elliott will be a good PG next season - at least not 30 mpg worth - but I'm going to keep an open mind if it happens.

Lockett and Katin helped teach me not to make snap judgments, and Rowsey far exceeded my expectations this past season. Heck, I've even softened on Heldt; he's slowly winning me over.

If it ends up being the situation, I'll keep an open mind on Elliott - and possible PG Markus, for that matter.

I'll be the 1st to admit I could be wrong about Greg or Markus playing the point.

I guess my point was whether you can turn a player into a PG at the college level. I think it is a pretty hard thing to do.

[Its DJOver]

I'll be the 1st to admit I could be wrong about Greg or Markus playing the point.

I guess my point was whether you can turn a player into a PG at the college level. I think it is a pretty hard thing to do.

I agree that's its difficult to "make" a PG at this level, but the coaching staff literally just got the absolute most out of AR.  I realize that Vander, Duane etc. never really excelled at PG for various reasons, but it would seem like we have an ideal situation going on.  Where the staff could tell Greg that he'll be the back up PG next year, so he can spend the entire offseason this year, all of next season, and the entire offseason next year before he would be relied on the be the main PG.  With the athletic ability that he already posses, if you give the entire staff 18 more months to work with him, he should be a more than capable PG.

[MU82]

People on both sides of this argument have very odd ideas about what does and doesn't make a point guard.

TAMU, I'm wondering if you or somebody else who does all the fancy advanced stats have anything regarding Rowsey and Markus in 2016-17 for when each played PG. And then for 2017-18, too.