Is Villanova a blueblood?

[Coleman]

Exactly what the question says...yes or no?

Are they on par with Kentucky, Kansas, UNC, et. al.?

[WarriorDad]

Define blue blood.  Who are your et al teams?


Is it championships won?  Is it Final Fours appeared in?  Is it all time wins?  Is UCONN a blue blood as they have done more than Villanova and equal number of titles this decade.  In my view, UCONN is not a blue blood and therefore Villanova cannot be.

Depends on what the definition is these days.

[Coleman]

Define blue blood.  Who are your et al teams?


Is it championships won?  Is it Final Fours appeared in?  Is it all time wins?  Is UCONN a blue blood as they have done more than Villanova and equal number of titles this decade.  In my view, UCONN is not a blue blood and therefore Villanova cannot be.

Depends on what the definition is these days.

I defined it in the original post. But feel free to use your own definition while voting. That is sort of the point of the poll...not everyone has exactly the same definition.

[Coleman]

Define blue blood.  Who are your et al teams?

If the et al is making it fuzzy for you, just focus on the three I listed. Is Nova on par?

[Jockey]

Yes,

They will be #1 in the BE (and maybe overall) next year as well.

Best program in the country right now. Unlike most of the other bluebloods, they don't need a freshman to be their best player in order to win it all.

[Coleman]

Define blue blood.  Who are your et al teams?


Is it championships won?  Is it Final Fours appeared in?  Is it all time wins?  Is UCONN a blue blood as they have done more than Villanova and equal number of titles this decade.  In my view, UCONN is not a blue blood and therefore Villanova cannot be.

Depends on what the definition is these days.

I would argue UCONN was a blueblood from roughly 2004-2014. They lost that status shortly after, which coincided with them ending up in the AAC and Jim Calhoun retiring. Their last national championship (2014) technically happened after both events, but it was still players from the Calhoun/Big East era. 

My personal opinion is that blueblood status can be won or lost....not overnight, but definitely over time.

Another former blue blood: Indiana

[GGGG]

These debates are just exhausting.  They clearly are one of the better programs now.  That's really all that matters. 

[WarriorDad]

If the et al is making it fuzzy for you, just focus on the three I listed. Is Nova on par?

Appreciate the clarification. Good question and no doubt many different viewpoints.  It was making it fuzzy because the three you listed are blue bloods in my view, but et al could mean Arizona, UConn, Duke, Michigan State, Syracuse, Indiana or teams like that.  Some of those are, but not all.

If comparing to those three, I would say no using your definition.  UNC and Kentucky many more national titles.  Kansas same number, but KU also played for the national title 9 times to Villanova's four.

UNC
UCLA
Kansas
Duke
Kentucky

That's my blue blood list. Some will argue Indiana which probably makes it on their championships won, but that's only if you separate blueblood from elite as they are not the same (UCLA fits in same mold).   UCONN, Villanova, MSU, Louisville, Arizona is that next grouping.

[Coleman]

These debates are just exhausting.  They clearly are one of the better programs now.  That's really all that matters.

I think they're fun. What is the point of a college basketball message board, if not this?

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

No. But they're getting closer. Would put them as a top 10 program all time,  but there is still a gap between the top 5 (Duke,  UNC, Kentucky,  Kansas,  and UCLA)  and the next 5.

If I had to pick those next 5 it would be Louisville,  Michigan State,  Indiana, Villanova,  and Syracuse in no particular order.

[JakeBarnes]

Only one way to find out: cut em open and see.

[Nukem2]

The image of blue blood status really factors in recency.  Nova is a blueblood right now.  UCLA and Indiana used to be, but have not been for a while.  Will AZ still be considered one?  Fame is fleeting.

[4everwarriors]

Gotta read WSJ's peace on NCAA bb team values. Flexes and  hanges yearly, butt good barometer ta use, aina?

[brewcity77]

They're the best program in the country right now. Does that make them a blueblood? I don't know. I wouldn't think so. Is Florida a blueblood? Were they a decade ago? I feel like that term applies after generations of success, not a great 5-10 years.

[Nukem2]

They're the best program in the country right now. Does that make them a blueblood? I don't know. I wouldn't think so. Is Florida a blueblood? Were they a decade ago? I feel like that term applies after generations of success, not a great 5-10 years.

Then again, IN and UCLA have had generations of success.  Not so much recently. 

[MarqKarp]

In my mind, a Blue Blood is a school that has success over a long period of time (multiple decades).   So, no, I do not consider Nova a Blue Blood, but they could be if their program maintains a high level of success over the next 20 years or more.   

[brewcity77]

Then again, IN and UCLA have had generations of success.  Not so much recently.

They have. And while Villanova has a better program, I would say Indiana and UCLA are more bluebloods than Villanova. I'm not sure either are elite programs, but they earned it over time. If 'Nova is still here in 20 years, this topic becomes a lot more relevant.

[Dr. Blackheart]

In my mind, a Blue Blood is a school that has success over a long period of time (multiple decades).   So, no, I do not consider Nova a Blue Blood, but they could be if their program maintains a high level of success over the next 20 years or more.

Nova has won as many national championships as Kansas.

[Its DJOver]

Nova has won as many national championships as Kansas.

When you're literally the birthplace of basketball you will get the benefit of the doubt more often than not.  I think they should have had more tourney success in the last decade or so given the talent level, but 12 straight B12 championships is extremely impressive regardless.

[GGGG]

They have. And while Villanova has a better program, I would say Indiana and UCLA are more bluebloods than Villanova. I'm not sure either are elite programs, but they earned it over time. If 'Nova is still here in 20 years, this topic becomes a lot more relevant.

UCLA has won just one national championship in 40+ years.  Indiana hasn't won one in 30+ years.

They've got great history, but how is that even relevant now?

[Coleman]

Let's not forget Nova's 1980s. It was a pretty good decade for them: 8 tournament appearances, 4 elite 8s, and a national championship.

I agree a blueblood needs to span generations. You could make an argument Nova has already done that. They are 6th all time in NCAA tournament appearances. If they are not blueblood, they are certainly right on the cusp.

NCAA Tournament champions
1985, 2016, 2018
NCAA Tournament runner-up
1971*
NCAA Tournament Final Four
1939, 1971*, 1985, 2009, 2016, 2018
NCAA Tournament Elite Eight
1939, 1949, 1962, 1970, 1971*, 1978, 1982, 1983, 1985, 1988, 2006, 2009, 2016, 2018
NCAA Tournament Sweet Sixteen
1951, 1955, 1962, 1964, 1970, 1971*, 1972, 1978, 1982, 1983, 1985, 1988, 2005, 2006, 2008, 2009, 2016, 2018
NCAA Tournament appearances
1939, 1949, 1951, 1955, 1962, 1964, 1969, 1970, 1971*, 1972, 1978, 1980, 1981, 1982, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1986, 1988, 1990, 1991, 1995, 1996, 1997, 1999, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018
*vacated by NCAA
Conference tournament champions
1978, 1980, 1995, 2015, 2017, 2018
Conference regular season champions
1978, 1979, 1980, 1982, 1983, 1997, 2006, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017

[mujivitz06]

Absolutely not. The whole idea of a "blue blood" is time. You can't be a blueblood because you had a nice 5 years. UNLV isn't a blueblood, Florida, etc.

[Its DJOver]

Let's not forget Nova's 1980s. It was a pretty good decade for them: 8 tournament appearances, 4 elite 8s, and a national championship.

I agree a blueblood needs to span generations. You could make an argument Nova has already done that. They are 6th all time in NCAA tournament appearances. If they are not blueblood, they are certainly right on the cusp.

NCAA Tournament champions
1985, 2016, 2018
NCAA Tournament runner-up
1971*
NCAA Tournament Final Four
1939, 1971*, 1985, 2009, 2016, 2018
NCAA Tournament Elite Eight
1939, 1949, 1962, 1970, 1971*, 1978, 1982, 1983, 1985, 1988, 2006, 2009, 2016, 2018
NCAA Tournament Sweet Sixteen
1951, 1955, 1962, 1964, 1970, 1971*, 1972, 1978, 1982, 1983, 1985, 1988, 2005, 2006, 2008, 2009, 2016, 2018
NCAA Tournament appearances
1939, 1949, 1951, 1955, 1962, 1964, 1969, 1970, 1971*, 1972, 1978, 1980, 1981, 1982, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1986, 1988, 1990, 1991, 1995, 1996, 1997, 1999, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018
*vacated by NCAA
Conference tournament champions
1978, 1980, 1995, 2015, 2017, 2018
Conference regular season champions
1978, 1979, 1980, 1982, 1983, 1997, 2006, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017

What'd they do in '71 to have everything vacated?

[WarriorFan]

Rollie had a helluva run as well.. then they disappeared for a while, now they're great again.  It would be like if we won a couple of natties and made the final 4 in 5 of the next 10 years, then based on our history plus the recent few years we'd be a blue blood as well... right?

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

They're as good as the blue bloods right now but not a blue blood...yet. Gotta wait 50 years to judge.