Chicago Condos

[4th and State]

Anyone have any experience buying a condo in Chicago?  In process of searching (mostly wicker park, logan square, and bucktown areas) and have found that 90% of buildings built from the 1990's through the 2000's were built using split faced block.  This material is much cheaper than brick, so developers obviously used it to pocket more money, but I've been reading they are much more susceptible to water intrusion, especially given Chicago's climate.

The problem is that most condo's that are for sale are made from this material, and its rare to see an all brick units in these areas.  Anyone have any experience living in a split faced block condo or can speak if it should be avoided all together?  Last thing I want to buy is a condo where I am dealing with water/mold issues.

[MU82]

I am not normally one who tells others what to do with their money but ...

Do NOT buy a condo in a building in which split-faced block is the primary material.

Back in the "mid-aughts," we did just that - despite warnings from several people. We fell in love with the condo's whistles and bells (granite this, stainless that, Sub-Zero this, Bosch that, rainforest shower, roof-top deck with panoramic view of Chicago, etc), and we liked the Lakeview location. The building had a beautiful brick front that belied the problems on the sides of it. It also was nearly new construction, so we were confident it would be OK; our inspector found no issues the day he was there. THIS WAS NOT A CHEAP CONDO - I'm too embarrassed to say how much we paid for it.

A few months later, the first time there was a heavy rain, we had water flooding into our unit. The association paid for a bunch of patching and caulking, and it was OK ... for a few more months. Then Chicago had another windy, soaking rain and our condo flooded again. More caulking, etc.

The HOA called in a masonry expert who spent 3 hours going over the entire building. He shook his head and muttered to himself as he walked around the building. "This place is only 3 years old? What a piece of crap," was his conclusion. He zoomed in for photos showing all the cracks in the blocks, all the areas in which water could seep in and do serious damage over the years. We saw photos of fairly large chunks of block ready to fall.

We took his recommendations to a couple of contractors. The cheapest estimate for the fixes was tens of thousands of dollars. It was only a 4-unit building and the HOA didn't have enough money for the job, and even if it did I doubt our fellow owners would have approved of the repairs.

We put our condo on the market less than 2 years after we bought it; it sold a few months later for about what we paid for it. We actually made a "profit" based on buy and sell prices, but after all the fees and commissions, we took a small loss - but we breathed a sigh of relief when we signed the closing papers.

In later years, I heard many similar horror stories.

You asked, I answered. Use the above however you see fit.

I wish you luck in your search.

[Chili]

Just sold our Logan Square condo last April which was 100% brick and we also had water issues. During the building boom before the recession a lot of builders were using crappy brick too. We had an issue with our western wall leaking and it needed to be sealed again. If you do proper sealing and maintenance any material will hold up. I would get the maintenance records of the condo association before you close just to make sure they have been keeping up with their sealing.

The thing with water is it always find a weakness and it's just addressing it as soon as possible. Also, since outside walls are a shared item, damages would be paid by the association and not you alone.

Edit: If you're looking for a fantastic agent mine has helped us buy & sell our condo (Logan) and also to help us through our home build process (Avondale). Our condo & our new build were never listed on the MLS since she is able to access the best properties before they get listed. Let me know if you want her info. She also has a great team (mortgage broker, lawyer, inspector) who we have used for all our transactions.

[Coleman]

About 3 years ago, I bought a condo in a brick building in Lakeview from the 1920s. It was completely rehabbed by a developer in 2007 and everything on the inside is from then or newer. The bones are very solid. The only downside is that it seems we need to tuckpoint some part of the building every few years. We just include it in our annual HOA budget now (I am our president). There were some water infiltration issues early on but the proactive tuckpointing has seemed to solve most of the issues.

It does seem like a lot of the newer buildings are from cheaper materials. My advice would be to find a unit in an older, solid building that has had a gut rehab recently.

If you need a realtor recommendation, PM me. Ours was fantastic.

One other piece of unsolicited advice: Don't be afraid to look outside your comfort zone. Ukrainian Village, Lincoln Square, Ravenswood, North Center are all great neighborhoods. I know that sounds hypocritical coming from someone who lives in Lakeview but if I knew more about different city neighborhoods three years ago I probably would have cast a much wider net.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

Grew up in a condo on the Rogers Park/West Ridge border. Old brick building, our street was flooded all the time and water got into the cement, unfinished basement but never had any water issues in our actual home.

[drewm88]

All brick here. Built in 1981. Whole place got tuckpointed in 2014. We bought in 2015. No leak issues in the building's history (from the brick...roof is another story). Heard the same horror stories about split face--and the 2000s building boom in general--when we were looking. Glad we didn't have to worry about it.

Also had a excellent realtor if you want another rec.

[MU82]

We live in an all-brick house in Charlotte now. It's wonderfully built.

Again, I would never again buy in a split-faced brick condo, and I have told the same to my son (who lives in Chicago and is just starting to look at condos). It's like playing roulette. I'd rather rent.

[Eldon]

We live in an all-brick house in Charlotte now. It's wonderfully built.

Again, I would never again buy in a split-faced brick condo, and I have told the same to my son (who lives in Chicago and is just starting to look at condos). It's like playing roulette. I'd rather rent.

Renting is underrated

[4th and State]

I am not normally one who tells others what to do with their money but ...

Do NOT buy a condo in a building in which split-faced block is the primary material.

Back in the "mid-aughts," we did just that - despite warnings from several people. We fell in love with the condo's whistles and bells (granite this, stainless that, Sub-Zero this, Bosch that, rainforest shower, roof-top deck with panoramic view of Chicago, etc), and we liked the Lakeview location. The building had a beautiful brick front that belied the problems on the sides of it. It also was nearly new construction, so we were confident it would be OK; our inspector found no issues the day he was there. THIS WAS NOT A CHEAP CONDO - I'm too embarrassed to say how much we paid for it.

A few months later, the first time there was a heavy rain, we had water flooding into our unit. The association paid for a bunch of patching and caulking, and it was OK ... for a few more months. Then Chicago had another windy, soaking rain and our condo flooded again. More caulking, etc.

The HOA called in a masonry expert who spent 3 hours going over the entire building. He shook his head and muttered to himself as he walked around the building. "This place is only 3 years old? What a piece of crap," was his conclusion. He zoomed in for photos showing all the cracks in the blocks, all the areas in which water could seep in and do serious damage over the years. We saw photos of fairly large chunks of block ready to fall.

We took his recommendations to a couple of contractors. The cheapest estimate for the fixes was tens of thousands of dollars. It was only a 4-unit building and the HOA didn't have enough money for the job, and even if it did I doubt our fellow owners would have approved of the repairs.

We put our condo on the market less than 2 years after we bought it; it sold a few months later for about what we paid for it. We actually made a "profit" based on buy and sell prices, but after all the fees and commissions, we took a small loss - but we breathed a sigh of relief when we signed the closing papers.

In later years, I heard many similar horror stories.

You asked, I answered. Use the above however you see fit.

I wish you luck in your search.

Wow that's crazy.  I'm glad you were able to get out of there without taking a big hit.  That's what I worry about when I see these places that look great, but in the back of my mind I'm wondering if there is a bunch water damage that has just been covered up by paint and whatever else.

Scary that the inspector gave you the thumbs up as well.

[4th and State]

Just sold our Logan Square condo last April which was 100% brick and we also had water issues. During the building boom before the recession a lot of builders were using crappy brick too. We had an issue with our western wall leaking and it needed to be sealed again. If you do proper sealing and maintenance any material will hold up. I would get the maintenance records of the condo association before you close just to make sure they have been keeping up with their sealing.

The thing with water is it always find a weakness and it's just addressing it as soon as possible. Also, since outside walls are a shared item, damages would be paid by the association and not you alone.

Edit: If you're looking for a fantastic agent mine has helped us buy & sell our condo (Logan) and also to help us through our home build process (Avondale). Our condo & our new build were never listed on the MLS since she is able to access the best properties before they get listed. Let me know if you want her info. She also has a great team (mortgage broker, lawyer, inspector) who we have used for all our transactions.

All of my first questions have now been about the sealing, has there been any water damage, etc.  It's something that I don't think most buyers even consider.  I had no idea until we had an accepted offer on unit, inspector found some water damage inside and we pulled our offer.  It was only after that I started reading about split faced block and a lot of potential problems that can occur.  Sounds like we should just stay away from most new construction unfortunately.

[MU82]

Wow that's crazy.  I'm glad you were able to get out of there without taking a big hit.  That's what I worry about when I see these places that look great, but in the back of my mind I'm wondering if there is a bunch water damage that has just been covered up by paint and whatever else.

Scary that the inspector gave you the thumbs up as well.

Inspectors can only comment on what they can see. The place was 2 years old and probably hadn't experienced any "damage." I blame the builder. The masonry guy said we probably could have taken him to court, but nobody had the desire to get in some long legal battle. Every single owner (as I said, 4 units) sold during the 2+ years we lived in the building.

[Chili]

Wow that's crazy.  I'm glad you were able to get out of there without taking a big hit.  That's what I worry about when I see these places that look great, but in the back of my mind I'm wondering if there is a bunch water damage that has just been covered up by paint and whatever else.

Scary that the inspector gave you the thumbs up as well.

Agents will lose license if they don't disclose water damage and you can sue. You are protected there. Now a good inspector should be able to find any issues with construction and may want you to bring in an engineer to look at structural things. Ours had that recommendation on a house we looked at before building.

[MU82]

Renting is underrated

Totally agree, Eldon.

When we sold that condo, the new owners wanted to take possession in 2 1/2 weeks. My wife balked at first and I'm like, "Are you crazy? We finally are able to dump this place! We're outta here." So we decided to find somebody who was subletting an apartment until we could figure out our next move, and we settled on an apartment in an old building near the lake (Wellington and Sheridan) that was owned by the Wirtz family (they own a ton of property). We took over the last 4 months of the lease.

It was a cool, old building. We lived on the 17th floor (the second highest floor) and we had a great view of the lake. The walls and doors were thick as hell and the place was well-built - we never once heard any neighbors. There was a 24-hour doorman, and the maintenance people took care of everything. I mean, even if we only needed a new light bulb, they would come change it. Clogged tub? They'd fix it in an hour. It was pretty sweet.

There were drawbacks - there was no central air so we had to install window units every year. Pain in the arse. Almost dropped one once - still not sure how I held on! Also, we had to use the coin laundry in the basement, but it was a huge, well-lit room, so it wasn't that bad. The worst thing was that there was no parking, so we had to park our one car on the street. I used to call it "parking roulette." I was a pretty lucky parker and usually found a free spot not too far away, but come home later than 7 p.m. on a weeknight or just about any time on a weekend - and good luck finding a free spot. Sometimes I had to park a mile away or more!! The benefit was that we walked a lot because we hated to move the car if we had a good spot!

It was a massive 2BR/2BA unit - had a 24x14 LR, two 17x12 BRs, an 18x13 DR and a big kitchen. Plus we had a huge storage unit in the basement. $2000 a month. I just checked out of curiosity and that apt now goes for 2795-2995 - still not horrible for what you get. (https://www.wirtzresidential.com/apartments/3000-n-sheridan/floor-plans-and-availability/ - a D unit)

Our plan was to move to the burbs and we started looking. But this was in the summer of '07 and the housing market was just starting to go to shyte. We didn't want to buy a falling knife so we thought we'd wait a year to see what would happen, and we renewed our lease. A year later, the economy was in crisis and my job was tenuous, so we renewed for another year. I did lose my job a few months after that, so I sure am glad we didn't go buy some expensive house in the suburbs.

(An added bonus: Because we thought we might buy a house any time, we didn't put the proceeds from the condo sale in the stock market; it was just sitting in CDs earning 5% interest while the market went into the tank. Talk about dumb luck!)

With me being a "free agent," our kids grown and my wife in a very portable job (pediatric nurse), we thought maybe we'd start looking for a totally different place to live - someplace warmer and cheaper. We took a few trips to check places out (Carolinas, Tennessee, Georgia, etc). And when our lease came up, with the market still in the crapper, we negotiated not only a lower rate but also a month-to-month lease. Finally, in the summer of '10 we moved.

So we started out thinking we would rent for 4 months and we ended up renting for 40!! And except for the parking situation, it was a really great experience. We had a decent place, total flexibility, etc.

When we moved to Charlotte we rented a condo for 6 months while we figured out where we wanted to live. I like our house, but part of me misses the freedom that came with renting!

As you said, very underrated.

[MU82]

Agents will lose license if they don't disclose water damage and you can sue. You are protected there. Now a good inspector should be able to find any issues with construction and may want you to bring in an engineer to look at structural things. Ours had that recommendation on a house we looked at before building.

As I said, we thought we might be able to sue but didn't want to go through the process if we didn't have to.

When we sold, we disclosed the flooding episodes but also showed receipts for the work done to combat the problem. The couple who bought it wasn't scared away - thank goodness!

[Marquette Gyros]

Renting is totally underrated if you're looking at a Chicago condo.

As a market, Chicago was dead last in terms of property value growth for the past couple years thanks to how wonderful the nation's perspective of this little place is. Not so great for owners.

Bought in Lakeview in '13, sold in summer '17 with a full ask offer (all of 8% more than I paid for the damn thing). Which I was very lucky to get.

Check out Domu, Craigslist etc. and compare monthly rent vs. PITI forecasts from Redfin or Zillow. You can probably do better renting, unless you think HQ2 is coming here or something.

If you have to buy and have any plans to 1) grow your family or 2) explore career opportunities that take you outside of the Chicago bubble (we checked both boxes), at least look at a 5/1 or 7/1 ARM -- trust me, your circumstances will change and you probably won't live in this place 10 years later.

By the way, the split faced block condo across the street that went on the market the same time mine did... still on the market today.

[Chili]

Renting is totally underrated if you're looking at a Chicago condo.

As a market, Chicago was dead last in terms of property value growth for the past couple years thanks to how wonderful the nation's perspective of this little place is. Not so great for owners.

Bought in Lakeview in '13, sold in summer '17 with a full ask offer (all of 8% more than I paid for the damn thing). Which I was very lucky to get.

Check out Domu, Craigslist etc. and compare monthly rent vs. PITI forecasts from Redfin or Zillow. You can probably do better renting, unless you think HQ2 is coming here or something.

If you have to buy and have any plans to 1) grow your family or 2) explore career opportunities that take you outside of the Chicago bubble (we checked both boxes), at least look at a 5/1 or 7/1 ARM -- trust me, your circumstances will change and you probably won't live in this place 10 years later.

By the way, the split faced block condo across the street that went on the market the same time mine did... still on the market today.

Bolded is your problem. If you're in Chicago, buy in the right neighborhood. Don't buy in Lakeview buy in Avondale, Pilsen, Logan. We cleared $85k in 2 years on our Logan condo and flipped that into a down payment on a new build in Avondale which we just moved into. We could list (and easily get) $80k more than we paid for the house right now which means we made $165k in 3 years. As I said in the First House thread - don't buy where people are right now, buy where people will want to be in a few years.

[Coleman]

Bolded is your problem. If you're in Chicago, buy in the right neighborhood. Don't buy in Lakeview buy in Avondale, Pilsen, Logan. We cleared $85k in 2 years on our Logan condo and flipped that into a down payment on a new build in Avondale which we just moved into. We could list (and easily get) $80k more than we paid for the house right now which means we made $165k in 3 years. As I said in the First House thread - don't buy where people are right now, buy where people will want to be in a few years.

That is easier said than done, and hindsight is 20/20. A lot of neighborhoods where people will want to be in a few years don't always pan out. And even if they do, you have to deal with crime in the interim. I'm not saying you're wrong, but its not always easy to spot the "next good neighborhoods" before they turn.

I bought in West Lakeview in 2015 for a fair price (around Lake View HS, west of Southport). Last year, I got a full appraisal, and my realtor ran comps, and it appreciated 15% in two years. Sure, that is on paper and the true value is what someone eventually pays me for it, but I think there is also something to be said for good, solid, neighborhoods, as long as you don't overpay going into it. Also depends whether you are looking for an investment or a place you truly want to live for an extended period of time. My time horizon is probably more like 7 years from purchase, not 3.

[4everwarriors]

Anyone have any experience buying a condo in Chicago?  In process of searching (mostly wicker park, logan square, and bucktown areas) and have found that 90% of buildings built from the 1990's through the 2000's were built using split faced block.  This material is much cheaper than brick, so developers obviously used it to pocket more money, but I've been reading they are much more susceptible to water intrusion, especially given Chicago's climate.

The problem is that most condo's that are for sale are made from this material, and its rare to see an all brick units in these areas.  Anyone have any experience living in a split faced block condo or can speak if it should be avoided all together?  Last thing I want to buy is a condo where I am dealing with water/mold issues.

'member ta keep in mind da mortgage interest deduction has bin lowered ta $750k, hey?

[Eldon]

Totally agree, Eldon.

When we sold that condo, the new owners wanted to take possession in 2 1/2 weeks. My wife balked at first and I'm like, "Are you crazy? We finally are able to dump this place! We're outta here." So we decided to find somebody who was subletting an apartment until we could figure out our next move, and we settled on an apartment in an old building near the lake (Wellington and Sheridan) that was owned by the Wirtz family (they own a ton of property). We took over the last 4 months of the lease.

It was a cool, old building. We lived on the 17th floor (the second highest floor) and we had a great view of the lake. The walls and doors were thick as hell and the place was well-built - we never once heard any neighbors. There was a 24-hour doorman, and the maintenance people took care of everything. I mean, even if we only needed a new light bulb, they would come change it. Clogged tub? They'd fix it in an hour. It was pretty sweet.

There were drawbacks - there was no central air so we had to install window units every year. Pain in the arse. Almost dropped one once - still not sure how I held on! Also, we had to use the coin laundry in the basement, but it was a huge, well-lit room, so it wasn't that bad. The worst thing was that there was no parking, so we had to park our one car on the street. I used to call it "parking roulette." I was a pretty lucky parker and usually found a free spot not too far away, but come home later than 7 p.m. on a weeknight or just about any time on a weekend - and good luck finding a free spot. Sometimes I had to park a mile away or more!! The benefit was that we walked a lot because we hated to move the car if we had a good spot!

It was a massive 2BR/2BA unit - had a 24x14 LR, two 17x12 BRs, an 18x13 DR and a big kitchen. Plus we had a huge storage unit in the basement. $2000 a month. I just checked out of curiosity and that apt now goes for 2795-2995 - still not horrible for what you get. (https://www.wirtzresidential.com/apartments/3000-n-sheridan/floor-plans-and-availability/ - a D unit)

Our plan was to move to the burbs and we started looking. But this was in the summer of '07 and the housing market was just starting to go to shyte. We didn't want to buy a falling knife so we thought we'd wait a year to see what would happen, and we renewed our lease. A year later, the economy was in crisis and my job was tenuous, so we renewed for another year. I did lose my job a few months after that, so I sure am glad we didn't go buy some expensive house in the suburbs.

(An added bonus: Because we thought we might buy a house any time, we didn't put the proceeds from the condo sale in the stock market; it was just sitting in CDs earning 5% interest while the market went into the tank. Talk about dumb luck!)

With me being a "free agent," our kids grown and my wife in a very portable job (pediatric nurse), we thought maybe we'd start looking for a totally different place to live - someplace warmer and cheaper. We took a few trips to check places out (Carolinas, Tennessee, Georgia, etc). And when our lease came up, with the market still in the crapper, we negotiated not only a lower rate but also a month-to-month lease. Finally, in the summer of '10 we moved.

So we started out thinking we would rent for 4 months and we ended up renting for 40!! And except for the parking situation, it was a really great experience. We had a decent place, total flexibility, etc.

When we moved to Charlotte we rented a condo for 6 months while we figured out where we wanted to live. I like our house, but part of me misses the freedom that came with renting!

As you said, very underrated.

I will add this to my arsenal of anecdotes about why renting is better than owning (or at least, why renting isn't nearly as bad as many people claim).

In talking to lots of people about the 'rent v buy' decision, I can't help but think that the 'buy' crowd overlooks three key costs of home ownership:

1) Saving for a 20% down payment often entails pretty substantial opportunity costs (you mentioned the stock market)

2) A roof is $10k easily.  A good water heater is a few grand.  If a sub-sidewalk pipe in front of your house breaks, you are on the hook (not the city).  Those pipes cost $10-15k (this happened to my buddy, and it is the first weapon in my arsenal).

3) Nickel and dimed.  People don't realize that a new ceiling fan, heater covers, a new faucet, etc., are individually cheap, but add up.

The "renting sucks" crowd often overlooks these costs.  It reminds me a lot of Uber drivers.  "Bro, I make a killing driving Uber."  My response: "Bro...depreciation!!"

Of course there are plenty of reasons why renting sucks as well, but that's another thread I suppose.

[MU82]

I will add this to my arsenal of anecdotes about why renting is better than owning (or at least, why renting isn't nearly as bad as many people claim).

In talking to lots of people about the 'rent v buy' decision, I can't help but think that the 'buy' crowd overlooks three key costs of home ownership:

1) Saving for a 20% down payment often entails pretty substantial opportunity costs (you mentioned the stock market)

2) A roof is $10k easily.  A good water heater is a few grand.  If a sub-sidewalk pipe in front of your house breaks, you are on the hook (not the city).  Those pipes cost $10-15k (this happened to my buddy, and it is the first weapon in my arsenal).

3) Nickel and dimed.  People don't realize that a new ceiling fan, heater covers, a new faucet, etc., are individually cheap, but add up.

The "renting sucks" crowd often overlooks these costs.  It reminds me a lot of Uber drivers.  "Bro, I make a killing driving Uber."  My response: "Bro...depreciation!!"

Of course there are plenty of reasons why renting sucks as well, but that's another thread I suppose.

I agree with everything you say here. Owning a house is expensive, and that's beyond the mortgage and insurance.

Condos? Folks need to remember HOA fees - $200 ... $500 ... $700 or more every month.

And tax benefits always were overstated but are even more overstated now that the standard deduction has been doubled. There's a reason that realtors and homebuilders were opposed to the tax plan; they lose a great marketing tool.

To me, there are two reasons to buy a house:

1. Appreciation leads to profits.

This happens less than people think. We owned 4 houses before this one. We "made" money on all 4 ... but not really. Once realtor commissions, title fees, etc, factored in, we at best broke even on 3 of them. Each of those, we owned for less than 5 years. That's on us. The 4th, our Chicago house, we bought in a gentrifying neighborhood with a good school and lived in it for 10 years. We did VERY well with that one. But at the time we bought it, we could not have guessed that it would appreciate as it did.

2. "Just want our own place."

To me, this is the best reason. You want a yard, a garage, a man cave, a feeling of permanence, whatever. If you make a wise buy and you live there for awhile, you might even make some money on the place, but that's almost a bonus.

If you're only going to live somewhere 3-5 years and if you don't have a crystal ball as to how a house/neighborhood might appreciate, it's very difficult to argue that owning is better than renting from a financial point of view.

So then it probably just comes down to, "I want my own place." And if so, that's cool, as long as you know what you're getting into! We sure as hell didn't with our first house.

[dgies9156]

OK, I'll add my story to this one.

We lived in Chicago since 1984. Our first home was in Downers Grove. Our second in Naperville and our third in Libertyville.

We bought in Libertyville in 1994 and have owned there ever since. Our home there is free and clear of any mortgages and other encumbrances. It's a wonderful home in a good community but its valuation CAGR is 1.9 percent. We could have invested in almost anything else with a comparable maturity and done better, especially given the rehabilitation and renovation we've done since 1994.

By contrast, we bought a second home in Vero Beach, FL four years ago. The CAGR on the home is 10.2 percent based on current market estimates. We're here for the long haul, expecting this to be our winter home for years to come. But even if we did not like the community (and we do), we would make out like bandits.

So to Scoop Nation, what should we do about Chicago. Keep in mind we are permanent Florida residents and our children likely will be Midwesterners. What should we consider? Should we sell Libertyville and move to the city? If so, to where?

Or should  we move to Milwaukee? Or Superior?

[real chili 83]

OK, I'll add my story to this one.

We lived in Chicago since 1984. Our first home was in Downers Grove. Our second in Naperville and our third in Libertyville.

We bought in Libertyville in 1994 and have owned there ever since. Our home there is free and clear of any mortgages and other encumbrances. It's a wonderful home in a good community but its valuation CAGR is 1.9 percent. We could have invested in almost anything else with a comparable maturity and done better, especially given the rehabilitation and renovation we've done since 1994.

By contrast, we bought a second home in Vero Beach, FL four years ago. The CAGR on the home is 10.2 percent based on current market estimates. We're here for the long haul, expecting this to be our winter home for years to come. But even if we did not like the community (and we do), we would make out like bandits.

So to Scoop Nation, what should we do about Chicago. Keep in mind we are permanent Florida residents and our children likely will be Midwesterners. What should we consider? Should we sell Libertyville and move to the city? If so, to where?

Or should  we move to Milwaukee? Or Superior?

Billings Park.  Or, Lake Nebagamon.  Lake Minnesuing, keep away. 

Soft Pines this summer?

[Chili]

OK, I'll add my story to this one.

We lived in Chicago since 1984. Our first home was in Downers Grove. Our second in Naperville and our third in Libertyville.

We bought in Libertyville in 1994 and have owned there ever since. Our home there is free and clear of any mortgages and other encumbrances. It's a wonderful home in a good community but its valuation CAGR is 1.9 percent. We could have invested in almost anything else with a comparable maturity and done better, especially given the rehabilitation and renovation we've done since 1994.

By contrast, we bought a second home in Vero Beach, FL four years ago. The CAGR on the home is 10.2 percent based on current market estimates. We're here for the long haul, expecting this to be our winter home for years to come. But even if we did not like the community (and we do), we would make out like bandits.

So to Scoop Nation, what should we do about Chicago. Keep in mind we are permanent Florida residents and our children likely will be Midwesterners. What should we consider? Should we sell Libertyville and move to the city? If so, to where?

Or should  we move to Milwaukee? Or Superior?

Kind of loose with that Chicago term there.....I mean it's not even Cook County 

[Galway Eagle]

Kind of loose with that Chicago term there.....I mean it's not even Cook County 

+1 real loose with the term chicago

[MU82]

When I got to Marquette and started meeting people, it seemed 2 out of every 3 said they were from Chicago. But as we got talking, not a single one of them was really from Chicago. Not a one!

My best friends were from Western Springs and Arlington Heights and Libertyville and Brookfield and Flossmoor. And I ended up marrying a girl from Gurnee. But I didn't meet anybody who really was from Chicago until long after I graduated!

I'm sure that's changed now, as so many people of means choose to live in the city these days. But back then, I used to joke that the population of Chicago must have been 0.