Wojo to this point....

[nyg]

Exactly, he has said he wants to play in the NBA.  Finishing college at MU is his only chance of that. Looking at the minutes for center, I would hope Matt doesn't scare him, and Theo is still pretty raw IMO.  There are certainly still big minutes to be won.  We have 3 center and none of them have set the world on fire so I would anticipate a great deal of competition.

How in this universe does Harry Froling believe he has a chance to play in the NBA.  Seriously, he is currently third string behind a Matt Heldt and a learning freshman in Theo John.  He would not be a starting center on any BE team and after watching him play this year, he may be a second team guy on a mid major team. 

I agree there are minutes to be had at the center position, but Harry is going to have to do a complete 180 just to get past MU's current guys. 

[connie]

I said the view of the basketball community , not the bar community. In 1977 the Warriors lost three straight games to De Paul, Detroit and Wichita State. There were so called fans calling for Al to be replaced. Good thing we didn't have a message board then.

Again, who is in this mysterious "basketball community?"  Also, I seem to remember Al announcing his retirement during the season to go to Medalist.

[Its DJOver]

How in this universe does Harry Froling believe he has a chance to play in the NBA.  Seriously, he is currently third string behind a Matt Heldt and a learning freshman in Theo John.  He would not be a starting center on any BE team and after watching him play this year, he may be a second team guy on a mid major team. 

I agree there are minutes to be had at the center position, but Harry is going to have to do a complete 180 just to get past MU's current guys. 

I didn't say that he does. I said he he has said he wants to.  If that is still the case, MU is his only option.  Bigs develop at a different rate, I would say that Matt is almost at his ceiling, and that's OK, no one expected Matt to be great.  Theo has the body, but is not as smart as Matt or Harry IMO.  Harry is probably the worst defender out of the three of them, but has a different skillset offensively.  I didn't say it was going to be easy, but there are minutes to be earned if he puts in the work and deserves them.

[skianth16]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHwDovrzKZQ

This is the interview I was specifically referring to (he discusses his NBA prospects throughout but directly answers a question about it around the 7 minute mark).  I've heard him mention it other places as well.

Thanks for the link. I think Harry probably had a real expectation of being able to compete for a spot on an NBA roster 4-5 years out from when that interview took place. Given his background and the level of competition he was playing against, it makes total sense. You've got to think that the last 2 years have not gone according to plan, though, and he's probably now weighing his options in the NBL. I don't know if that means he's weighing them right now, or if that's 2 years out, but the NBL seems more likely than the NBA at this point.

[79Warrior]

The complaining is coming from the same people over and over again. I'm not sure your viewpoint represents the Marquette basketball community.

I can tell you all my alum friends are not drinking the cool aid. The jury is out on Wojo but time is not on his side.

[CTWarrior]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHwDovrzKZQ

This is the interview I was specifically referring to (he discusses his NBA prospects throughout but directly answers a question about it around the 7 minute mark).  I've heard him mention it other places as well.

I agree - most guys who play high major D1 hopes have NBA aspirations.  The vast majority of them will never play a minute in the NBA.  But Harry has already sort of backed himself in a corner with a mid year transfer.  He cannot transfer again without burning another full year of eligibility, and leaving to go back to Australia would pretty much kill any chances he has of ever making the NBA (and forfeit a free education).  I guess I wouldn't be surprised if he left, but I think he'll stay. I also think he could be a pretty good player for us as a senior.

Yes, he can.  He has two years of eligibility left.  If he transfers, he has to sit out a year, but he will have two years of eligibility left.  OTOH, He has played very, very little in competitive games for 2 years now and it does seem unlikely that he'd want to sit next year.  You can read that as he won't want to stay if he doesn't think he is going to play a lot next year or that he won't want to leave for another school because he won't play the whole season.  I have no idea what he'll do.  I think if he does leave he will most likely be going somewhere where he will play, and that by definition won't be Div I NCAA basketball.

[nyg]

I didn't say that he does. I said he he has said he wants to.  If that is still the case, MU is his only option.  Bigs develop at a different rate, I would say that Matt is almost at his ceiling, and that's OK, no one expected Matt to be great.  Theo has the body, but is not as smart as Matt or Harry IMO.  Harry is probably the worst defender out of the three of them, but has a different skillset offensively.  I didn't say it was going to be easy, but there are minutes to be earned if he puts in the work and deserves them.

Again, slow down, read what I wrote.  Never said you said.  I agree with what you said, HARRY said. My argument is his expectations to be a member of the NBA, and these expectations at this point are unattainable.  He is a third string center right now. I hope he realizes there are Burger Boys out there who not even close to making the big league.  Harry is a member of MU team, so I'll root him on and hope he does well, but he needs a lot, a lot of work. 

[Mr. Sand-Knit]

Exactly, he has said he wants to play in the NBA.  Finishing college at MU is his only chance of that. Looking at the minutes for center, I would hope Matt doesn't scare him, and Theo is still pretty raw IMO.  There are certainly still big minutes to be won.  We have 3 center and none of them have set the world on fire so I would anticipate a great deal of competition.

The opportunity is prolly more available to Harry tgan at about any power 6 school in the country.  The issue with Harry has not been lack of opportunity it has been what he has been able to do with it.  Its there will he, can he take advantage of it?

[Its DJOver]

Again, slow down, read what I wrote.  Never said you said.  I agree with what you said, HARRY said. My argument is his expectations to be a member of the NBA, and these expectations at this point are unattainable.  He is a third string center right now. I hope he realizes there are Burger Boys out there who not even close to making the big league.  Harry is a member of MU team, so I'll root him on and hope he does well, but he needs a lot, a lot of work.

I read what you wrote and it sounds like we're in agreement.  Hope he stays, but has a lot of work to do to even be the starting center, much less a NBA prospect.

[JamilJaeJamailJrJuan]

Yes, he can.  He has two years of eligibility left.  If he transfers, he has to sit out a year, but he will have two years of eligibility left.  OTOH, He has played very, very little in competitive games for 2 years now and it does seem unlikely that he'd want to sit next year.  You can read that as he won't want to stay if he doesn't think he is going to play a lot next year or that he won't want to leave for another school because he won't play the whole season.  I have no idea what he'll do.  I think if he does leave he will most likely be going somewhere where he will play, and that by definition won't be Div I NCAA basketball.

This is correct.  Thanks for correction.

[Pakuni]

Since there are only 19 teams listed here out of the 74 total, I would take that to show that power 6 schools are less affected by transfers since the national average is roughly 2 per team.

No, these are the 19 power conference teams that had TWO OR MORE transfers last year. Another 25 P6 teams had one transfer. So, 44 of 76 teams had a transfer.

[skianth16]

No, these are the 19 power conference teams that had TWO OR MORE transfers last year. Another 25 P6 teams had one transfer. So, 44 of 76 teams had a transfer.

But the national average is about 2 guys per year. And you showed that only 19 of the power 6 schools had more than one. So my conclusion from that is that power 6 schools lose fewer players to transfers because only 25% of power 6 schools lose players at a rate equal to the national average.

If you look at the total number of P6 transfers, the average is less than 1 transfer per school in the power 6, assuming most of the schools in the multi-transfer list only lost 2 players to transfer. If that group's average comes out to 3 players per team, then the power 6 would average just over 1 player per school, but even that is still well below the national average.

[#UnleashSean]

I didn't say that he does. I said he he has said he wants to.  If that is still the case, MU is his only option.  Bigs develop at a different rate, I would say that Matt is almost at his ceiling, and that's OK, no one expected Matt to be great.  Theo has the body, but is not as smart as Matt or Harry IMO.  Harry is probably the worst defender out of the three of them, but has a different skillset offensively.  I didn't say it was going to be easy, but there are minutes to be earned if he puts in the work and deserves them.

I see your one of those "traditionals" 

[Its DJOver]

I see your one of those "traditionals" 

I love Theo, and love that he is the best shot blocker of the three, but when he goes for it every time, if he misses his man gets an offense rebound and easy put back.  Matt is the smartest in this category IMO, and honestly I don't think Harry is athletic enough to be a shot blocker.  When Theo learns when he can get a block and when he should just box out he will be so much better.  He has started to figure out that he should never give up and and one, something that no one else had, If he's gonna get burned he gotta be able to get his money's worth.

Understand what you were saying, just wanted to give a little big man analysis for what it's worth.

[Spaniel with a Short Tail]

I said the view of the basketball community , not the bar community. In 1977 the Warriors lost three straight games to De Paul, Detroit and Wichita State. There were so called fans calling for Al to be replaced. Good thing we didn't have a message board then.

Al was replaced. Just sayin'

[Mr. Sand-Knit]

1 a year aint gonna hurt us.  Any study will also show 95% of transfers are do to lack of playing time.  So essentially losing 1 player a yr that sees the writing on the wall is not detrimental.  The issue MU is dealing with right now is that we lost 3/4 of Wojos first class and the 3 were the best players in the class.  So instead of having strong jun, soph, n freshman classes this yr striving for ncaas we had a strong fresh n soph class attempting to do that... aint gonna happen.

[79Warrior]

I said the view of the basketball community , not the bar community. In 1977 the Warriors lost three straight games to De Paul, Detroit and Wichita State. There were so called fans calling for Al to be replaced. Good thing we didn't have a message board then.

Al announced he was retiring in December, prior to the games you cited. You might want to have your facts straight.

[Pakuni]

But the national average is about 2 guys per year. And you showed that only 19 of the power 6 schools had more than one. So my conclusion from that is that power 6 schools lose fewer players to transfers because only 25% of power 6 schools lose players at a rate equal to the national average.

When I say some of those P6 schools lost "two or more," that means some lost more than two. Some lost three (e.g. Virginia, Alabama, Penn State, Rutgers). Nebraska lost four. Pitt lost five.
I'm not interested in doing the math, so maybe P6 schools see slightly fewer transfers (and way more kids leaving early for the pros) than mid-majors and low majors, but I'm not sure what you're getting at.
If there's a difference, it's not a huge one ... certainly not a 3-to-1 ratio.

[skianth16]

When I say some of those P6 schools lost "two or more," that means some lost more than two. Some lost three (e.g. Virginia, Alabama, Penn State, Rutgers). Nebraska lost four. Pitt lost five.
I'm not interested in doing the math, so maybe P6 schools see slightly fewer transfers (and way more kids leaving early for the pros) than mid-majors and low majors, but I'm not sure what you're getting at.
If there's a difference, it's not a huge one ... certainly not a 3-to-1 ratio.

If you read the rest of my post, I addressed the more than 2 scenario. If the national average is close to 2, and the P6 average is close to 1, that makes the ratio 2:1. That's significantly different.

[f/k/a humanlung]

How in this universe does Harry Froling believe he has a chance to play in the NBA.  Seriously, he is currently third string behind a Matt Heldt and a learning freshman in Theo John.  He would not be a starting center on any BE team and after watching him play this year, he may be a second team guy on a mid major team. 

I agree there are minutes to be had at the center position, but Harry is going to have to do a complete 180 just to get past MU's current guys.

Harry is, in my opinion, too soft.  He needs another year living in the weight room.  Even then, I do not know - based on the limited amount I have seen - that he has whatever "it" is to play physically when (and where...) he needs to.

[f/k/a humanlung]

1 a year aint gonna hurt us.  Any study will also show 95% of transfers are do to lack of playing time.  So essentially losing 1 player a yr that sees the writing on the wall is not detrimental.  The issue MU is dealing with right now is that we lost 3/4 of Wojos first class and the 3 were the best players in the class.  So instead of having strong jun, soph, n freshman classes this yr striving for ncaas we had a strong fresh n soph class attempting to do that... aint gonna happen.

Beat DePaul 10 days ago and it happens.  Just sayin'.

[Mr. Sand-Knit]

Beat DePaul 10 days ago and it happens.  Just sayin'.

Happens on occassion i just dont think a program of our ilk can expect to do that consistantly.  If we did would that not be a testiment to the job Wojo did??

[GooooMarquette]

 
For a school like MU to be truly good we need to get old n stay old.  If Wojo is going to lose 3/4 of classes this is going to be impossible to do. 
So i will give Wojo a pass to this point, however his ability to recruit and keep talent will determine how his story at MU ends.  Collections of freshman and sophomores playing in Power 6 conferences with next to no junior or senior classes play innthe NIT or no tourney whatsoever (Unless ur Duke,UK, etc).  Thats just the way it is.  Get old n stay old Wojo, or hit the road.  I hope he is incredibly successful in doing this.

I agree with this analysis.

We will always have transfers, but we also need to keep enough quality players around so that we have at least 3 or 4 upperclassmen who have experience in our system.  Guys who bring both experience and continuity.

This year, we had two in Andrew and Matt.  Next year - barring any transfers of core guys - we will have four in Markus, Sam, Sacar and Matt.  I'd be pretty surprised if any of them leave.

There is still work to be done, but I am confident Wojo will get this sorted out. 

[Litehouse]

But the national average is about 2 guys per year. And you showed that only 19 of the power 6 schools had more than one. So my conclusion from that is that power 6 schools lose fewer players to transfers because only 25% of power 6 schools lose players at a rate equal to the national average.

If you look at the total number of P6 transfers, the average is less than 1 transfer per school in the power 6, assuming most of the schools in the multi-transfer list only lost 2 players to transfer. If that group's average comes out to 3 players per team, then the power 6 would average just over 1 player per school, but even that is still well below the national average.

That's a big assumption.  I don't know how many transfers each of those schools had, but there's a good chance many of them had 3 or more.  Marquette isn't on that list and had 3 last year (Sandy, Traci and Duane).  That might skew your averages.

[GB Warrior]

I see your one of those "traditionals"